A sign of improvement?

Maybe, I am not sure.

it is at times a lot of words and saying a lot less. pretty much, I think he is saying that keeping mangini just so we have some stability isn’t good and him staying doesn’t guarantee improvement.

I think he is saying too that we should look at the improvements we might expect from mangini compared to what we know to get from more proven HCs.

So a whole lot of mostly stating some obvious points without taking a definite position.

I had no problem following elsandito’s logic. Stability doesn’t mean much if the arc of the team isn’t bending toward better performance. Stable sub-par results are just that and shouldn’t to be sought just because change is bad. (Or because we’ve blown everything up too often in the past!)

I followed him just fine. It’s true: waiting for Mangini to reach his full potential is wasted time if his ceiling is mediocrity.

I just contend that, lacking omniscience, we don’t know that yet. I think one more year gives us a better assessment of his HC abilities.

I have no issue following along.

Thanks for the kinds words. Things are a little tight this month, but i can send you the balance of what we agreed upon next month.

and Sheldon Brown would probably be singing a different tune if he didn’t think Mangini knew what he was doing. Guys who have had bigtime success in the league like Fujita and Brown love Mangini.

No – don’t think I’ve seen that video.

I grew up rooting for the St. Louis Cardinal football team. Bidwell moved the team to Arizona when I was a teenager and I had moved away by the time the Rams came to town years later (don’t give a damn about the Rams – or Arizona). Think I still have a Jim Hart jersey somewhere up in the attic. I’m also a Chicago Cubs fan.
So on some level I suppose I can relate (on the sad sports team loyalties front) :-/

funny story, lots of rivers used to catch on fire, it just so happens that the Cuyahoga was the one the EPA used as a symbol of environmental damage so that’s the one everybody knows about.

I think the knock on Cowher for awhile was that he had good teams but couldn’t win the big game, and that idea was accurate. In fact, without having referees hand a game to him, he’d still be viewed that way.

I would give the schedule excuse much more weight if the Browns didn’t lose the games in which they are viewed as the favorite.

Both teams looked good in that game.

True.

They also lost to the lions, so that isn’t always true.

so in summary, they have played five games against opponents with a winning record, and they lost all five of those games. The browns have 3 wins against teams above .500 and just two losses to teams below .500.

What this shows is how insanely important strength of schedule is in the NFL.

That is true. it does feel though that these comments are much more specific about what mangini is doing right. I mean back with Crennel there was support, but it was mostly in generalized statements (and it wasn’t this vocal either).

And if they do crap on a coach, they are labeled as a cancer (T.O)

It certainly wouldn’t look good to a coach thinking about bringing you in.

Right. Most players are always going to support their coach, and if things go bad they’re going to blame themselves and not the coaches. You can listen to players from every losing team and they’re (almost always) saying good things about their coaches. So that’s not a good reason to keep him.

I see your point. There is no direct link from the improved D to the players buying in. It is just my opinion and inferrence (and is definitely arguable)

I know players comments are slippery. I did mention them but I give them the least amount of importance when I came to this conclusion.

You’re ignoring the other factors at play. if Holmgren fires Mangini, it could potentially look like he did it just because he wanted to coach. If they brought in a third guy, I don’t think it would be a problem. but I’m not the only one who thinks there’s a trust issue there, and I don’t think it’s crazy to think some players would feel that way as well. As far as the “getting a fair shot” comment, I think it’s obvious that the players see progress not reflected in the record.

I’m not saying every player would definitely feel that way, but I don’t think we can dismiss it out of hand like you seem to be.

It wouldn’t bother them at all? It wouldn’t disrupt things for you if your boss was fired, a new guy stepped in, and there was reason to believe you and some of your colleagues might be the next ones to go?

I am not sure if it is just about playing for a SB coach. I think they feel that now. That Homgren is there bringing in talent. I noted this in another post, but if I were a bubble player I would be worried about a coaching change. Change in coaching restarts the clock and all the “good things” I did over the last year get lost. Systems change and as a player I might not fit into the new system.

I hope so.