"Michael Jackson" Coaching Search
When I say this is Michel Jackson coaching search - I am not telling you that the NFL has extended its minority hiring policy to include seance interviews with a dead pedophile. I am saying that Holmgren´s coaching search starts with the "Man in the Mirror". Here is how I handicap the coaching scenarios:
Mike Holmgren - 51% chance he is next coach of the Cleveland Browns
Mike likes himself more than Eric. Mike trusts himself more than Eric. Mike thinks he is an offensive genius (and rightfully so). Mike said he still has an itch to coach. If you add those 4 things up the odds are like 99% that he will coach the team next year. But, at over 60, maybe just maybe Mike figures it was far easier to collect $7 large and ride a golf cart rather than working like 100 hour weeks - so I knocked down the odds somewhat.
If Mike coaches, Rob Ryan stays. The prognosis - Holmgren most resembles Andy Reid - and I am not talking about their silhouettes - and the Browns keep some consistency on defense, and the offense starts morphing towards a wide open attack under the direction of Colt McCoy.
Eric Mangini - 34% chance he remains the coach of the Cleveland Browns
Mike respects Eric - but respects himself more. There are several strong reasons to maintain Eric. His teams are prepared, they don´t mail it in, and he has developed some young talent. Even if the record is 5-11, there is absolutely no denying the fact that the team is improved. The "fickle fans" are in his corner. I ran a poll in early October that asked this question. You are Mike Holmgren, Mangin is is sitting in your office with a 5-11 record. What do you do - keep him or can him? The result - 81% said keep him and that is not a misprint. We were like 0-3 at the time.
But lets be honest - I like Eric and want him to return - but people who say he should be fired are not out of their minds. He often played for field goals and failed to take prudent risks. Sometimes he even decided against prudent risks and replaced them with not so prudent risks. In addition, 5-11 or 6-10 is not good. The chances are we could hire a better coach than Eric. I say this with facts. 14 teams have recently hired new coaches that were hired with Mangini, or the years before and after. Here is the shakeout.
- 4 have been far superior hires. (Smith of the Falcons, Harbaugh, Rex Ryan for going to the AFC championship, and Haley of the Chiefs for this years turnaround and divsion championship)
- 2 have been better. (Spagnola of the Rams, and Morris of the Buccaneers.)
- 3 have been better - but I have reservations that they are better coaches. (Cable is a sleazebally character, and Pete Carroll is at least "oily". Caldwell has a much better record - but I question his handling down the stretch last year, and wonder if he is leading the Colts down a decline.
- 2 are in the Mangin "ballpark". (Shannahan and Schwartz of Detroit)
- 3 were worse hires. (McDaniel, Singletary, and Chan Gailey)
From recent history, it appears that we less than a 25% chance of doing worse than Eric. If Eric returns, Daboll doesn´t. Look for the Browns to improve on both offense and defense.
John Gruden - 13% chance he is next coach of the Cleveland Browns - all others 2%
If you think Homgren has a cushy job - it is nothing compared to Gruden. In addition, with Heckert at GM - the Browns job would not be on top of Gruden´s wish list. I am sure he thinks he is due a "football czar" type of job - and I think he can get one. Under Gruden, we would prolly see a lot of destruction going on, maybe a little of ready, fire, aim, and therefore Gruden may be a riskier pick for 2011 improvement than Mangini.
Finally, hope everyone had a Merry Christmas and the Happiest of New Years for all Browns fans everywhere - we certainly are due!
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4 have been far superior hires … Rex Ryan for going to the NFC championship
This is a joke right? He stumbled his way into the playoffs with the exact same record Mangini had the year before on a team Mangini built.
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Dec 30, 2010 9:44 PM EST reply actions
*Mangini built team.
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Dec 30, 2010 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
I think objectively Ryan has been far superior. First, he won 2 playoff games with “Mangini´s team”. Secondly, he will bring his team to the playoffs for the second straight year and will have double digit wins. He has done so with a rookie QB in the first year, while Mangini had Favre. Favre led the Vikings to the brink of the Superbowl the next year.
Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"
Favre also cost Mangini his job the year before. Rex Ryan only made the playoffs the first year because two far superior teams decided to lay down and rest their starters.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 30, 2010 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
Mangini cost Mangini the job. Favre was hurt and Eric did not bench him because of the streak. It was obvious his arm strength was not there and he was was throwing picks left and right. I know Eric said he practiced every week, but the tape does not lie and the guy with a rocket was throwing ducks.
Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"
I’m not so sure that the Bengals were a “far superior” team since the Jets beat them in the playoffs when the Bengals were at full strength.
And the Jets may have backed in to the playoffs at 9-7 but they did win two road games in the playoffs and you have to give Ryan credit for that. I know there is some extreme hatred for the Jets by many members of this blog, and I’m not really sure why, but I’m tired of hearing about them backing their way in to the playoffs. That doesn’t take away from the success they had in the playoffs. They’re also having a good season again this year so I think it’s fair to say that Ryan is a good coach (who gets a lot of publicity because he coaches in New York and likes to talk).
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 31, 2010 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
Fair point on cincinnati, the jets may win that game anyway.
Still, his record showed no improvement over Mangini’s and he got a freebie at the end of the season. According to a lot of people on this blog, that would be grounds to fire the guy.
I’m not trying to take away the playoff victories, or the job he’s done this year. I just don’t think any of it proves he’s better than, let alone far superior to, Eric Mangini.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 31, 2010 12:53 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
…and a team that was 5-1, and 9-2 this season is now 10-5. He is stumbling into the playoffs again and has less than a 25% chance of not being the last overall playoff seed. this team has collapsed in recent weeks. the 2010 Jets have marginal improvement the previous season and may be overall worse. this team is not significantly better than it was 2 years ago, and most of how it is better is b/c of more talent in certain areas.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
realmccoy — 100% chance that he’s pulling these numbers out of his ass
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Dec 30, 2010 9:53 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
That I am forced to agree with.
Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"
by realmccoy on Dec 30, 2010 10:18 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Too unpredictable at this point, especially with all the upheaval in the NFL coaching ranks this post season.
I’ll cast my vote after Sunday night. I’m figuring that’s where Holmgren is too.
One prediction I will make is that I don’t think Holmgren will coach again (at Cleveland or anywhere else).
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 30, 2010 10:24 PM EST reply actions
Santonio? He is a free agent next year and a player/head coach would be unique in the NFL.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 30, 2010 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
Who is “mangin”?
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 30, 2010 11:11 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
realmccoy = TRSS 2.0
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 30, 2010 11:34 PM EST reply actions
How?
Mike Marra is the worst Division 1 Starter in college basketball
by TheRealSlimShady on Jan 1, 2011 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
I vote for The Beast With 40 Eyes.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 31, 2010 5:08 AM EST reply actions
Take Shanahan, for instance. Two years ago many would say he was one of the better coaches in the league, having won 2 Super Bowls. Same goes for Joe Gibbs. But after stints with the Redskins, they appear the lesser for it. The point is that the team situation must be considered, along with the management structure in place.
The logic seems to be flawed. The risk in firing Mangini is greater than finding a coach who is worse. The risk of doing worse should not guide the decision because he impact of doing worse is far greater than improvement unless that improvement means the Super Bowl. Because at this point the team continues to improve and unless you can “guarantee” a Super Bowl I don’t think change is worth the risk of change at this point.
That’s why the new coach needs to be a “sure-thing” and the only man I can imagine in that role is Holmgren. Otherwise, stay the course and be ready to make the change next year when fewer teams will be bidding up the “prices” of the top candidates.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Dec 31, 2010 1:35 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Agreed and how can you guarantee a SB. Jerry Jones tried to do that this year and look what happened. The risk and price is too big unless you can guarantee SB.
Holmgren and Parcells at this point – they have each taken two teams to the Super Bowl. They are the closest to a guarantee.
But we all know what a guarantee on the side of a box means…
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Dec 31, 2010 3:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I beleive that if Homgren came out of the office and coached that yes he could win a SB, but not next year. There are too many moving parts. I wanted the Browns to be more competitive this year and they were. There were some infuriating things and I wish some of those games had gone the other way, but I think overall I still feel good about what Mangini is doing.
That if you put it under your pillow maybe the guarantee fairy will give you a quarter.
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Dec 31, 2010 5:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You are putting too much emphasis on 2011. Cleveland isn’t going to the playoffs next year. It can be a year for continuing to build but in different ways than Mangini wants to do it. I’m not sure where any guarantee enters into the thinking. You build a contender and hope the ball bounces your way.
The only risk in axing Mangini is if he develops into a great coach and Cleveland simultaneously hires one or more coaches that turn out to be average or worse. The probability of this is no greater than Mangini not becoming a great coach. This is a door no.1 or 2 or 3 decision by evaluators who are supposed to know what they are doing. To frame this as Mangini’s job to lose doesn’t seem rational.
I wanna go fast
Cleveland isn’t going to the playoffs next year
Banned for life.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 31, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
Keep me around so you can ridicule me when the Browns do make the playoffs next year.
I wanna go fast
Got this funny feeling you just may be safe from ridicule. Not pessimistic by nature, but I just see us way behind the Steelers and Ravens and think it would be difficult to get all wildcards from the same division.
Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"
I don’t think we’re way behind anyone, especially the Ravens. we’re a few key players behind; this could be one more draft like the last one and a free agent or two. it isn’t unrealistic to believe we’ll compete for a wildcard next year.
Our draft last year was unreal. I hope we can get another one of those, but them are some long odds.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 2, 2011 9:54 PM EST up reply actions
I have faith in Heckert. In the worst draft in recent memory, the eagles plucked maclin and McCoy. the eagles always seem to get a couple really good players each year, so I really think he can get a couple really good players again…and maybe Holmgren pulls rank again to get a 3rd.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Problem is we need the steelers and ravens to take a few steps back. I can’t believe Ed Reed can still walk, and Ray Lewis has to slow down at some point. The steelers’ LBs and DL are not exactly young.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
The Redskins need a full rebuild. That organization was maybe slightly better than ours when Mangini got here. I still believe Shanahan would be a good HC if he didn’t also play GM.
Your point still stands.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I’m pretty sure that Holmgren wont want to be the coach next year, that combined with the fact that he is not a dead guy who is best friends with pedo-bear. I will be shocked if he decides to be a coach again. I think Mangini will stay just because he has been given 2 years to totally re-build the browns. He stays.
the eyes of youthful optimism.
I like Mangini – I really do and am hoping for his success. However, I just cannot imagine that he could retain his job if he loses to Pitt. That would be 4 straight losses to end the season including losses to Buffalo and Cincy – and a season with no wins vs. our 2 biggest rivals.
Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"
I think if the Browns play hard and keep it close, even if they lose it is going to help Mangini’s case.
If the Browns play sloppy and/or get blown out, I think that might be the end of Mangini.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 1, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Well we did see an embarassing performance.
Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"
And Mangini will be gone this week if not sooner.
Just a hunch.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 3, 2011 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
Ryan inherited much more talent than Mangini
Also - Mangini was against signing Favre …… it was the Jets owner who pushed it. I think Mangini felt a lot of pressure from the ownership to try and make the Favre situation work. Look at some of the players Mangini brought into the Jets system: Mangold, Ferguson, Revis …… all three of these still young players are among the elite at their respective positions.
I’d like to see Mangini get at least another year, if not two and see if he is able to further develop the Browns into a team that can consistently be in the 10-12 wins per/season range.

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