Instant Recap: Defensive Battle Ends With Late INT by Mike Adams
by Chris Pokorny on Dec 5, 2010 4:34 PM EST
in General News
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PrintYou can say that the Cleveland Browns' offense struggled against the Miami Dolphins today. While the Browns had a lot of trouble moving the football throughout the game, their lack of success was a tribute to just how well the Dolphins were playing on defense. They penetrated through our offensive line at the right times, and I don't know if they missed a single tackle all game.
The Browns were not too bad themselves defensively. They constantly pressured Chad Henne into dumpoff passes throughout the game, and the quarterback had a difficult time ever finding a good rhythm as he completed just 50% of his passes and tossed three interceptions. Delhomme, on the other hand, kept on completing short passes (except for one key drive), had a 70% completion rate, and did not turn the ball over.
In the fourth quarter, with less than two minutes on the clock, the game was tied 10-10 and Miami had the football. Would Cleveland's defense collapse again in the same situation they faced the past two weeks? The answer was "no."
On 3rd-and-9 with 54 seconds left in the fourth quarter, Henne's pass to the left was tipped at the line by none other than linebacker David Bowens. Bowens has some luck when he tips balls in that area of the field, because his pass somehow ricocheted to the right side of the field right to where safety Mike Adams was standing. Adams returned the ball down to the two yard line. The Browns took a couple of knees before letting Phil Dawson kick the game-winning field goal as time expired.
With Cleveland's 13-10 victory, they find themselves with a 5-7 record and a much more secured job for head coach Eric Mangini. Cleveland's playoff hopes are still moderately alive when it comes to the wildcard race, but it all starts with needing the Steelers to beat the Ravens tonight.
Side note: I know that Delhomme almost threw a pick six with under two minutes to play, but it didn't happen and the Browns won, so I'll look past that for now...
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Sweet win. O’s failures are much more attributed to Miami’s D than our own problems. Kudos Miami.
ROHC THE SOHC.
I disagree. Miami did a good job of gameplanning. But it took Daboll 3 quarters to figure out how to exploit their overagression at the line of scrimmage. I’m getting very tired of watching 8-9 guys in the box against us.
Not to mention, I think we make ourselves wayy to easy to gameplan against when we go with Delhomme and a weak set of receivers. Dial up the pressure and watch the big mistakes mount. I realize he didn’t turn the ball over today, but it felt more like an aberration than an improvement.
So, who would you have paired with those weak receivers? Are you saying that we should have played Wallace and lived by the check down with little chance for a pass down the field? Yes, Wallace could have scramble to buy more time – if he is healthy enough – but I don’t see him making any more of the opportunities than Delhomme did.
I am effing hurdling you and you can't stop me.
There really was only 1 “downfield throw” to a receiver that I can remember.
Yes, I know its hard to make a change after 2 wins, but I feel like Delhomme has done all he can for the Browns franchise on the field. I’d like to see Wallace play until/if McCoy is back this season, giving him some chemistry with his receivers heading into next year as our backup for potentially years to come.
Not only does Wallace limit mistakes better than Delhomme, just his ability to scramble will limit the pressure the opponent can bring.
People keep talking about Wallace’s ability to scramble like it’s some big threat but he rarely did anything running this season when he started. He’s not really a threat to run very much and he’s not as good as Delhomme at throwing down the field. He does certainly make less mistakes than Delhomme but I’m fine with staying with Delhomme until McCoy comes back.
I think its enough to neutralize the blitz. you could tell today that Miami’s game plan was to pin their ears back and come after Delhomme, and wait for the big mistake, and it almost worked.
The fact that our defense is so amazing hides just how bad our 1 dimensional offense is.
Their plan was to have St. Clair play at RT for us. It worked.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Dec 5, 2010 11:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
1 less costly mistake…
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 5, 2010 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
MoMass had 4 catches for 80+yds….just sayin
"Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it."--Big Tom Callahan
Amazing what can happen when we throw the ball further than four yards downfield.
by Western Reserve on Dec 5, 2010 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
I still would like to see Evan Moore Moore often.
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 5, 2010 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
Moore went out with a hip injury.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 6, 2010 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
Old news, of course, but the right side of our o-line is a complete disaster.
by Western Reserve on Dec 5, 2010 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
No. The pocket held pretty well during most of the game.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 5, 2010 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know, there were still too many miscommunications for my taste, and St. Claire got blown by a couple times.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
, he was facing cameron wake. considering a guy like wake only had 1.5 sacks and 3 hits on delhomme, he had a better game than in previous weeks (where you saw him those stats or better from much lesser players). He protected better, but thats not saying much. He still definitely got blown by quite a few times.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
St. Clair blows. If he ever actually blocks someone, I am going to assume that St. Clair was probably supposed to block someone else.
I don’t care if that sounds mean, the dude is a bum.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 5, 2010 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
I really do NOT like St. Clair.
The fact that his name is ‘St. Clair’ makes it even worse. I always say it with a look like I walked into a bathroom where someone just took a dump.
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 6, 2010 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
Completely disagree.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
completely disagree with you.
if this can be said of a majority of people by a lineman, than SOMETHING is up and he’s not doing his job.
by discoinferno083 on Dec 6, 2010 6:39 AM EST up reply actions
Umm, it sounds more like you agree with Rufio here.
No. The pocket held pretty well during most of the game.
,
is what he disagrees with, and I’m with Rufio on this one. For an immobile QB JD was able to evade a whole bunch of pressure yesterday.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 6, 2010 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
Also, I have a question.
Seriously, why are pick 6’s so common with Delhomme? It’s mind boggling.
ROHC THE SOHC.
The one pass in the 4th that could have been intercepted had pick 6 written all over it. Thank go he dropped it.
"Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it."--Big Tom Callahan
This. I feel that Delhomme is just going to keep throwing these, and it makes me tear my hair out.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 5, 2010 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
His abilities aren’t what he thought they were?
by Western Reserve on Dec 5, 2010 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
I just enjoy seeing the Browns pull it together in the 4th for wins. For all the heat we give the coaching staff, just look at how many other teams have quit on coaches this year (hell, look at the Titans earlier today).
The guys are playing hard despite an all but guaranteed losing season and I attribute that to good coaching.
See also Last Year.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 5, 2010 4:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
More like the Titans coaching staff has forgotten who their best player is.
Past two games Chris Johnson has a combined 20 carries. But Rusty Smith and Kerry Collins have combined for 63 pass attempts. How that makes any sense is beyond me.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 5, 2010 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
To be fair, weren’t they down big in both games pretty early? They needed to throw more to get back in the game. But, you’re right, Johnson should have more carries than that (and I know since he’s on one of my fantasy teams).
The Titans will continue to lose until they can replace Vince Young.
Collins is washed up.
"Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 5, 2010 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
Sadly no, I somehow made myself watch both games. Against Houston it was a two possession game into the third quarter. Today they were within two scores almost the entire game as well.
I just can’t understand what the Titans are doing sometimes.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 5, 2010 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
Probably following the yardage too much. Everyone in the world knows CJ2k is their best player and most dangerous player, and they will try to take him away first.
Today it looked like they fell behind early and felt pressure to throw. Against Houston, they had a 2.5 yard passing premium, which is right about where NFL teams like to be, so they were pretty balanced. That premium was the difference between 4.5 YPA and 2.0 YPC though, so they were just flat-out-awful on offense.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
the titans are in a tough spot b/c their qb situation is a train wreck. there’s not a qb on that roster who makes a defense worry about committing everyone to stop cj.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 6, 2010 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
The Browns are in the same situation, but find a way to get Hillis the ball.
Came across an interesting stat today: Yesterday’s loss makes for the fifth time in seven years that the Titans have lost five in a row.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
i was in nashville recently, and in reading about the young/fisher flap i was interested to see just how slightly-above-average fisher’s tenure in houston/nashville has really been. i always considered that he was an elite coach (and maybe he is), but he hasn’t exactly destroyed it in his time w/ the organization.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 6, 2010 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
I think its a problem with a Front Office that is Average at best.
They had 14 picks in 2004, but they only had only 4 turned out to even be average NFL players; Travis LaBoy (average situational pass rusher who has never gotten more than 6.5 sacks), Antwan Odom (had one good healthy season with the team…but can’t stay healthy in Cincy), Randy Starks (average 3-4 DE at best), and Jacob Bell (very solid Guard, but no longer with team). None of their guys who made any sort of impact in the NFL are still with the team, and none of these guys have been since 2008.
2003: Lets just put it this way, RB Chris Brown was their best pick in that draft and he had 3,000 career rushing yards (and only a couple seasons as an impact runner) but hasn’t played any professional football since 2009.
Between 2003 and 2005, they only have 6 players that are considered starter worthy on that team…that is not good drafting at all. that 6 is including vince young (who has started this year significantly so is considered “starter worthy” but he isn’t all that great).
Its very hard to be good when you are only acquiring about 1-2 starters a year through the draft (this is not guys coming in right away and starting but also guys who are eventual starters). I think the Front Office is crap and he is having to deal with a team who in all honestly, isn’t amazingly talented outside of Chris Johnson.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
don’t forget that fisher won a power struggle w/ floyd reese a few years back in which fisher essentially took control of football operations.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 7, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
and since then, the talent has been much better.
Jeff Fisher acquired Jason Jones, Michael Griffin, CJ2K, Javon Ringer, Jason McCourty, Kenny Britt, all solid players.
While its definitely still very early to judge Jeff Fisher’s drafts (because even his first was just a few years ago and is just in the time realm where drafts can be more objectively judged), his drafts between 2007-2009 already have bigger returns than Reese’s drafts between 2003-2006 (I actually meant to say "Between 2003 and 2006 because they got 3 “starters” in 2006 including VY).
While Fisher may not be anything special when it comes to the ability to draft a team, Floyd Reese during those 4 years was IMO one of the 5-10 worst NFL GMs (obviously Millen, Russ Brandon, Al Davis, and whoever was in Minny)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
by Simmsinns on Dec 6, 2010 6:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Wow, Peyton Manning has become Jack Delhomme. 2 INTs already, including a Pick Six.
by DisplacedBuckeye on Dec 5, 2010 4:49 PM EST reply actions
That’s 6 INTs and 3 pick 6’s in two weeks.
0.o
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 5, 2010 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
Love the Bucs’ stadium when they score.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Dec 5, 2010 4:51 PM EST reply actions
he didn’t look like a pro-bowler, sure, but I’m surprised so many people are still crapping on Delhomme. he played a decent game, didn’t turn the ball over, and outside of one play didn’t even do anything scary.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
he could have lost us the game on that play. He had one good drive. I want his ass on the bench ASAP.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Dec 5, 2010 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
please, Colt McCoy had his ass bailed out more than once himself.
More correctly, the offense had one good drive. we had no running game today, and we lack talent at WR.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Delhomme was told not to pass downfield because no one trusts him. We were ready to butcher him last week. He has a half decent game and we’re growing soft on him. Let’s be consistent. He’s a liability and he will put us in a position to lose more often than not. Bench his ass.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Dec 5, 2010 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
Who told him not to pass sown field because they didn’t trust him and how did you hear that utterance?
I am effing hurdling you and you can't stop me.
It’s hypothetical of course. Would you trust Jake Delhomme to lead your team?
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Dec 5, 2010 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
And again, who are you going to put in instead? A broken Wallace? A broken McCoy? John St. Claire?
I am effing hurdling you and you can't stop me.
that boy is gonna be a star in this league. He was beat pretty bad on that one INT though. Henne just threw up a bad ball. Otherwise, man he looked good right.
"Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it."--Big Tom Callahan
Cornerbacks lose a step sometimes, it’s all about how you close out. Perfect throws will beat you. We weren’t facing Brady or Manning.
I agree, but still he was beat on that play. Most NFL QB’s will hit that pass more often than not. Either way though, he played some great ball today! I think between him and Ward our secondary is going to improve drastically to finish out the season and especially next year.
"Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it."--Big Tom Callahan
Right, you don’t need to be Manning or Brady to make that throw. Haden was beat pretty badly on that one, and we got lucky that Henne massively underthrew it. But he stil had a great game overall.
man the steelers are bad liars!!! bens nose was definitely broke!!! it had a little west-side slide going on there!!
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Dec 5, 2010 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
I guess it’s kinda hard to tell with a face like that I guess. It’s not like he is really gonna get any ’uglier, ’ anyways.
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 6, 2010 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
He did have a misstep. That’s my one knock on Haden right now, he isn’t as fluid as you’d like.
BUT I am pretty sure underneath routes were his responsibility there and he had a safety coming over the top. If Haden doesn’t catch that ball I think the S is close enough to blast the WR.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Haden said after the game that he was being aggressive and bit on a double move.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
“It’s the same thing that happened in Jacksonville,” said Haden. “He ran a double move and I’m very aggressive, so I jumped the first one, but with my speed I caught up to him. He started looking back and his eyes got big like he was about to catch the ball so I just looked back and caught it.”
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/12/rookie_cornerback_joe_haden_sh.html
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
Haha, love hearing that he uses the WRs dilating pupils to his advantage.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 6, 2010 12:26 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, but McCoy seems to fire up the guys around him and make key plays when needed. Something Jake panics during and throws pick 6’s. That is the difference, the offense seems more motivated with Wallace/McCoy.
"Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it."--Big Tom Callahan
you’ll get no argument from me on McCoy, I would much rather have him playing than Delhomme. I think between JD and seneca it’s a wash. My main point above was that every QB makes mistakes and sometimes they get lucky. lets not pretend McCoy hasn’t benefitted from a couple stone-handed defenders.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Making fun of Peyton and Henne for pulling vintage Delhomme isn’t crapping on Delhomme’s acceptable performance today.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
I wasn’t referring to that, I was skimming through the game thread and people were acting like Delhomme had already thrown the game away.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
I didn’t see a ton of that and I was in for most of the thread. At least I can say for myself, I am not pleased per se by his performance, but at least satisfied he didn’t make the big mistake and that we won.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I don’t know, he didn’t have another pick six only by the grace of the Football Lords. He hit a Dolphin right in the chest at the end of the game. He always seems to rush and force the ball if he receives any pressure whatsoever.
you just described every game by every QB ever.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
I disagree, McCoy seems to have a better “clock,” and seems to be better at just getting rid of the ball if he gets in trouble.
Because I said no he doesn’t? Nice.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 5, 2010 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
I would imagine it’s more than just that statement.
"There is a small, but important difference between peeing in the pool and peeing into the pool." - Demitri Martin
Meh, he doesn’t need to say it. It’s just I don’t see how someone can make that statement on McCoy in 4 games and even then, I don’t see it in the first place.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 5, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
McCoy just takes sacks.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Not true. He often ends up scrambling to the sideline for a pickup of a yard or two (or eight).
Not something you will ever see from Jake.
"Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 6, 2010 8:31 AM EST up reply actions
in pretty much every single game, a QB has a terrible decision that leads to either a bad pick or a dropped pick.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Woah woah woah. The Dolphin jumped the route. It wasn’t a B-line to him.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 5, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
Delhomme had a good day today, I am not trying to crap on him. I just feel nervous whenever he drops back because of his pick sixes – that’s my main point.
He does need to stop throwing questionable balls into the flats.
I also hate our offense for running so many routes out there and never having a constraint play.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I’m not familiar with the term constraint play. Can you elaborate?
by Monsters of the Midway on Dec 6, 2010 7:02 AM EST up reply actions
I think he means a play that would make a defense pay for overplaying the pass to the flats.
Apologies if I am mistaken.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 6, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for the reply. I will read johnny’s article and let you know :)
by Monsters of the Midway on Dec 6, 2010 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
On point Bernie. Thanks again.
by Monsters of the Midway on Dec 6, 2010 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
Delhomme panicked and threw the ball, nearly throwing another pick 6. Another bad decision when he’s about to get sacked. He’s got to realize that sometimes its better to take the sack.
Congrats to Delhomme. He’s won the last 2 starts.
I was just stating it wasn’t a straight throw to the DB, the DB had to do a little work.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 5, 2010 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
Like reading Delhomme’s eyes. I haven’t watched the replay but it looked like he came off Mass right at the snap and ran at Watson. Also considering we were throwing to Watson almost every other play, it’s not surprising, that Delhomme almost threw an int.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
All I’m saying is that every QB makes those one or two bad decisions every game. Delhomme played about as well as you can expect a guy to play. His previous outings are fair game, but today he played well, and we shouldn’t be using that one play to say he sucked.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
It’s not the fact that Jake isn’t perfect that frustrates me. It’s the fact that he made a critical mistake late in the game that would have cost as a W had the defender not held on for a fairly easy INT that frustrates me.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 5, 2010 8:45 PM EST up reply actions
what I’m saying is that it happens to every QB.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Alas, Jake seems to have it happen more often than not.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 5, 2010 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
The real problem is we aren’t getting a whole lot of reward to go with that risk. His completion % was great today, but we didn’t get the YPA and especially the scores to go with a scary turnover.
If he had thrown 3 TDs and we were up by 14 we could have afforded to play a less risky style AND a pick-6 wouldn’t be so costly to us.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Well said.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 6, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
The reward was no turnovers in a low scoring game. I think it was intentional because the staff doesn’t fully trust Jake.
Ah, but only because the opposition dropped that easy pick….
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 6, 2010 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but at the same time, the strategy is so conservative and the three yard routes are so inept, we damn near lose these type of games anyway. We didn’t yesterday. But, we also only won by the narrowest of margins. Also, the reward, yes, is no turnovers — yesterday at least, and barely. I don’t know if things need to be, or even can be, opened up a bit, but, as has been the case all year, it’s a pretty precarious position to be in where a single mistake costs us the game, with virtually no room for error.
by Western Reserve on Dec 6, 2010 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
we were also playing a very good team. this strategy does have a very small margin for error, but it is even smaller when the D is very good and gameplanns specifically for that strategy.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Delhomme played about as well as you can expect a guy to play.
Are you kidding? He had an OK game, but “as well as you can expect a guy to play”? Come on now.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 5, 2010 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
seriously. He completed 70% of his passes, with a decent YPA. he had a 97.3 QB rating. He didn’t turn the ball over. anything more than that and you have a legitimate franchise QB, which are few and far between in the NFL.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
except for one awesome drive, his ypa was just flat out awful. I would say he had one great drive, but for the rest of the game was an average game manager. Then again, this is all I would ever reasonably expect out of Delhomme even if I have confidence in him (one great drive but a game manager for the rest)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
but you can’t take out that drive, it still counts.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
I am not saying it doesn’t. I am just pointing out that he DID lead that drive and that is what separates him and wallace (I defined wallace as a true “game manager”)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I have said this to you several times and I don’t know if you are just trying to upset me or if you really don’t get this:
YPA is a good statistic because it doesn’t penalize home-run hitters or ultra-consistent dink and dunkers. It doesn’t penalize players who are consistent throughout the game or blow up at the beginning or end of it.
Everything averages out.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I am not saying YPA is a bad statistic.
I have NEVER said YPA is a bad statistic.
I have only used YPA as a measurement of separating guys who can stretch the field from the dink-and-dunkers in a statistical sense.
It does all average out which I like about it, but it is not the best statistic to measure how a QB stretches the field, and that is why I have used YPC as a Supplamentary stat.
This also doesn’t seem 100% relevant to my comment. I am not criticizing YPA as a whole but pointing out that Jake Delhomme was not very good outside of one drive. He was throwing a lot of dumpoffs in the backfield to hillis that would only net a yard or two. THIS is what I was saying.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I have only used YPA as a measurement of separating guys who can stretch the field from the dink-and-dunkers in a statistical sense.
IT DOESN’T SEPARATE THEM AND I NEVER SAID YOU SAID YPA WAS A BAD STAT.
The reason it is good is what was important; it doesn’t matter if you are “not very good outside of one drive” because the entire game will be reflected in the stat.
If you throw 10 passes for 0 yards (terrible) for the first part of the game, then you complete 2 for 100 yards and a TD (phenomenal) in your last drive, you have 8.3 YPA. You did a good job.
If you complete 8/10 passes for 100 yards, then you fall on your face in the last drive, going 0/2 for 0 yards, you still get 8.3 YPA, you did a good job.
If you throw 30 passes for 0 yards throughout the game and then 2 for 100 and the TD on the last drive, you get 3.1 YPA. You did terrible.
If you complete 29/30 passes for 100 yards and then fall on your face in the last drive, going 0/2 for 0 yards, you get 3.1 YPA. You did terrible.
It doesn’t matter to YPA when or where the yards come, as long as you move the ball. It doesn’t matter to YPA if he’s throwing dumpoffs for 1-2 yards (it would to completion %) for most of the game. If all he ever does is throw dumpoffs for 1-2 YPcatch, it will be reflected in YPA.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
YPA is a good statistic because it doesn’t penalize home-run hitters or ultra-consistent dink and dunkers.
If you weren’t implying that I said YPA was bad, what was the point of emphasizing that it is good? I was not negative about the stat as a whole which is the only situation where emphasizing strengths of it seems necessary.
"not very good outside of one drive" because the entire game will be reflected in the stat.
I agree. I am not at all trying to take away from the great drive delhomme had or take away from YPA. I am merely trying to strengthen my point about my personal opinion about Jake when he is on; that he is a solid game manager who can make a few very good plays in a game (and its these plays, like that drive today that separate him from Wallace when he is on)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
If it is “bad”, we shouldn’t be talking about it. I was affirming that it is indeed a worthy stat and then talking about WHY, exactly, it is worthy. “YPA is good BECAUSE….” The “…” was the important part.
I am merely trying to strengthen my point about my personal opinion about Jake when he is on
You failed in doing this because you decided to be selective about an already small sample size in your evaluation of Delhomme. YPA is good because it doesn’t discriminate against players who “get hot” or make fewer, bigger plays. You used it to do exactly that.
If Delhomme is “game-manager with the ability to get hot and lead an awesome drive” and Seneca Wallace is “game manager”, Delhomme’s YPA over the course of the season will be significantly higher because he will have led those big drives and Wallace will have not.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
If it is "bad", we shouldn’t be talking about it
there was no true dialogue about the statistic until you affirmed its worthiness however.
it doesn’t discriminate against players who "get hot" or make fewer, bigger plays. You used it to do exactly that.
I however did not “discriminate against players”, namely Jake Delhomme, using YPA. I was merely looking at his YPA and dissecting the type of player he was today. no more, no less. If you think it was more than pointing out the type of player he was, you read way too much into something extremely mild.
If Delhomme is "game-manager with the ability to get hot and lead an awesome drive" and Seneca Wallace is "game manager", Delhomme’s YPA over the course of the season will be significantly higher because he will have led those big drives and Wallace will have not.
Oh, of course. If Delhomme can play like he did today, or even slightly worse but just limit the mistakes (something wallace has been able to do fairly well his whole career) I take Delhomme over Wallace. No hesitation.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
If you think that performance was as well as a you can expect from a QB than you have very, very, very low expectations.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 5, 2010 9:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
very low expectations is what has kept us at the bottom of the league for so long! glad we have a front office now who recognizes talent and finally isnt pussyfooting around, to give this city the team that it has deserved for so long!
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Dec 5, 2010 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
Yes. It’s about as well as you can expect Delhomme to play; it’s not as well as you can expect an average NFL starting QB to play.
I agree. What we saw today out of Delhomme was his ceiling now.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 5, 2010 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t disagree, but that is clearly NOT what NTN said.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 5, 2010 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
No TOs, 90+QB rating, 70% comp, I’d say he did pretty damn good.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 5, 2010 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
as much pressure he and the offense was?? i would say it was more than adequate!
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Dec 5, 2010 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
He was average, maybe even good. His completion % is high because he threw so many short passes. His YPA was low. He almost threw a pick 6, but he didn’t. So it was a good game for Delhomme.
But that wasn’t the comment that he’s responding to. The comment was that Delhomme played as well as you can expect a QB to play, and the point is that if that performance was as well as you can expect a QB to play then your expectations are very, very low. That really can’t be argued.
didnt mean to make it sound like an argument, was just agreeing with him, sorry.
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Dec 5, 2010 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
you left out a key word,
about as well, not that he played as well as you can expect from a QB. I think he played 10x better than what we can expect from Delhomme and he’s just shitting on him for the sake of shitting on him.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 5, 2010 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
whos shitting on delhomme?? i wasnt.
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Dec 5, 2010 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
TDSH
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 5, 2010 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
ahh, ok i think he was quite good today, not great but good
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Dec 5, 2010 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
his YPA was 6.4, that’s pretty decent.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 5, 2010 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
Right now, 27 of the 33 QB’s who have enough attempts to qualify have a YPA greater than 6.4 I don’t consider that pretty decent. That’s in Derek Anderson/Alex Smith territory.
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 5, 2010 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
I also was including the fact that we had no running game all day and the receivers are less than stellar. You can’t really expect a QB to put up better numbers when the passing game to backs and TEs was all we had.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 5, 2010 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
We had no running game because the D had no respect for the pass. Miami’s D is solid, but it is not the best D we have played, and Hillis played better because the pass was being respected.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 5, 2010 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t forget the revolving door at RT.
To me, this and our offensive design are our biggest problems right now. Even bigger than lack of talent at WR, which I do consider a problem.
That’s how bad I think the right side and the offense are right now.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
It’s painful to watch St. Clair get consistently beat. Knowing St. Clair can’t stop anyone cuts the margin of error for everyone else on the line. If Steinbach or JT has a bad day, the offensive line turns into the maginot line.
And I know the WRs aren’t world beaters but we’ve at least seen them get involved and be productive with Jake under center. I will leave it up to others smarter than me to debate whether that’s a result of Jake, offensive schemes or the defenses they are facing.
by Monsters of the Midway on Dec 6, 2010 7:15 AM EST up reply actions
get involved and be productive with Jake under center
only as a relative matter. w/ jake under center the wr’s have been better (numbers wise) than they have been w/ wallace or mccoy … but they’re still woefully inadequate and at the bottom of the league in terms of overall wr production.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 6, 2010 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
has lauvao played much? any thoughts on him?
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 6, 2010 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
couldn’t agree more. Right side O line needs work. About the offensive design: Where do we go next year? Are daboll and mangini just constantly trying to protect the team from terrible QB play or do they just know too little about offense to be capable of implementing a real NFL-quality system? Does holmgren need to step in and find us another OC?
"Smokescreen."
I guess…but I’d like, even as a backup, my QB’s potential ‘ceiling’ to be more than “…at least he didn’t…”
He did have a decent game, but if I have any of our other QB’s 100% healthy he goes back to the bench.
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 6, 2010 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
Do you guys think that Daboll is unwilling to go to the air even when they are stacking the box because he doesn’t trust Delhomme to make good decisions? I mean Hillis is a beast, but he can’t bust through when they run straight up the middle against eight guys.
my guess is he was trying to get the ball to his best play-maker, Hillis, and since the running game wasn’t working he tried to do it through the air.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
bout time.
i prefer this strategy, to be honest.
it’s not brilliant, but it’s smash-mouth football, and it’s effective.
by discoinferno083 on Dec 5, 2010 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
2.4 YPC is hardly effective. Neither is ramming your head into a brick wall.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
keeping the defense honest and opening up for the pass.
A- most teams can’t stop Hillis without fully committing to stop the run
B- Delhomme does not need to throw 53 times a game.
this is a solid way to play. (granted, you don’t want to beat it to death, getting three and outs… but i’m glad we used some balance.)
by discoinferno083 on Dec 6, 2010 6:42 AM EST up reply actions
Yes. It seem like they said to him before the game “Don’t you dare try to air it our or squeeze a pass between defenders, or we’ll cut your nuts off”. Luckily he listened and the Browns still won. In the long run, I don’t see how you have winning team with this strategy and such weak WRs.
not necessarily a direct response to you, but i figured i’d put this here … delhomme’s pass to stuckey in the back of the end zone (that stuckey couldn’t hold onto) was all world. that was a big time ball.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 6, 2010 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
CBS just played Mangini’s post game locker room speech.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
DAMNIT I MISSED IT! How was it?
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 5, 2010 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
I was hoping someone else caught it. My mom’s here and she was talking over the tv. The locker room looked like a happy place anyway.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
*Disclaimer. It’s a joke.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 5, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
That’s when you tell your mother to SHUT THE HELL UP, BIZZATCH!!
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 5, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
I missed it, any good?
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
It wasn’t bad. He was talking about that being 2 in a row and that now we need to string more wins together. He also had Joe Haden say something as he was walking out of the room, but I couldn’t understand what it was but the locker room erupted after it.
"Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it."--Big Tom Callahan
Raiders up BIG on San Diego.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
Guess who started San Diego’s D… —→
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 5, 2010 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
Thank God the ones I did pick are killing it for the most part.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 5, 2010 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
It pisses me off that we gave Cribbs the big contract. I know we were in a bad position at the time becuase he was our best playmaker and fan favorite. But I wish we could restructure the deal in our favor now based on his play just like he did to us.
You do know his whole contract is incentive based right?
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 5, 2010 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
Like 2 Mil maybe? Not quite sure on that.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 5, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
If you listen to the guy whining in the game thread it’s like 7 mil but I highly doubt that.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 5, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
The guaranteed money is 7 million dollars. He can earn an extra 11 or so million with incentives.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 5, 2010 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
I stand corrected.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 5, 2010 8:26 PM EST up reply actions
Guaranteed cash isn’t a huge deal unless the player is going to have one of those massive untradeable contracts or you think the likelihood that we would cut Cribbs at some point during the contract is high.
Yup, It made me laugh when the guy in the game thread said we were overpaying him and that he was going to get as much money as Delhomme, who is making 7 mil this year and 11 mil next year.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 5, 2010 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
Flag.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
by Simmsinns on Dec 5, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah. If he was still any damned good then it wouldn’t have mattered that teams were kicking away from him or that the return teams weren’t setting up blocks until he was injured. And it is just totally lame that he is using the excuse of four dislocated toes to explain his lack of effectiveness.
I am effing hurdling you and you can't stop me.
No argument from me on the injuries. But nicks and bruises are part of football. all the more reason why special teams players are a dime a dozen.
Pfft. Who needs a whole foot to run?
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 5, 2010 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
tom dempsey didnt need one to kick a 63 yarder!!! lol
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Dec 5, 2010 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
Sarcasm? I hope.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 5, 2010 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
His contract is worth a total of 20 million max through 2012 but his base salary is very managable. His salary for this year is just under 700k and he is still under 1 mil in base salary for the last year, 2012.
So yeah, its all incentives based and a lot will probably be based on Return TDs, pro bowl appearances, etc…
So if we pay him big bucks, he is earning it.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Base and incentives don’t tell the whole story for NFL contracts. Signing bonuses play a huge role in both the total dollar amount paid and the cap-friendliness of the deal.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
that is very true. I believe much of his other $ though is tied up in incentives. there are signing bonuses, but I read that with the bonuses, Cribbs would cost us a cap hit of around 2 million a year.
Also, isn’t “guaranteed money” just base salary and bonuses? If so, his cap hit per year over the next 3 years is an average of 2.5 million. for a guy who can do what he does when healthy, that is still very reasonable. that is still .5 million less than the base contract of Eric Barton, so he is definitely not high on the list of problems when the cap comes back.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
No. Guaranteed money is money that the player will receive and the team will have to account for on the salary cap no matter what (regardless of the player being cut, active, playing a % of snaps, etc.). Guaranteed money includes signing bonuses but might not include other bonuses (such as roster bonuses or other bonuses that are earned by reaching incentives).
Cribbs’ salary is reasonable.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
It pisses me off that we gave Cribbs the big contract.
Fans like this give Cleveland fans a bad name.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 5, 2010 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
I love Cribbs and I love how he represents Cleveland. He was at the Cavs/Heat game the other night. Would’ve been nice to see McCoy or Hillis there since they seem to be on their way to become the face of Cleveland sports, unless they were and I didn’t see.
JC seemed to just pick a running lane when he returned kicks in the last few years and blow through it. That really always seemed to lead to some big returns. Now, he just doesn’t seem like the go-for-it-all returner anymore. Maybe he’s a bit gun shy in order to avoid bigger hits, but it does seem like he’s changed his ways a bit. I don’t see that aggression with him on kick offs now
by Big Daddy Hickman on Dec 5, 2010 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
Can I just say that Joe Haden is a beast.
by Roger Dorn on Dec 5, 2010 5:15 PM EST reply actions 13 recs
Pro bowl material? Or at least DROY material?
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 5, 2010 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
Joe Haden is a beast.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
by Simmsinns on Dec 5, 2010 7:34 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
This comment doesn’t have nearly enough recs
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 5, 2010 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This isn’t a comment on the rest of the defense or a heat of the moment thing.
Joe Haden is the Browns best defensive player. I have tons of love for Rubin, Ward and Rogers, but Haden is out of this world good. And he keeps getting better every week.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 5, 2010 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, no doubt. And how about Shaun Rogers today? Abe Elam with another big play, too.
by Western Reserve on Dec 5, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
He can still get better, too. Like I said elsewhere, I’d like to see him do this to Brandon Marshall-type WRs, not just the Bess’ and Hartlines of the NFL.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I think as long as mangini is around, the sky is the limit for Joe Haden. he seems to have solid physical skills. I have to admit i liked hearing haden marvel at Eric Wright’s technical ability, because it gives me hope that Haden will work hard to become technically sound too.
"Smokescreen."
Not that I think for one second that we have a chance in hell at the playoffs, but why is Pittsburgh beating Baltimore better for that? Don’t they have the same records, division records, and conference records?
I think Chris mentioned earlier that Balt has a tougher schedule down the stretch and would be the team more likely to fade.
Pittsburgh has a MUCH easier schedule going forward. They rank 24th in opposing SoS going forward whereas Ravens are more middle of the pack. the ravens would still have to play the Saints and a tough Texans team. the Steelers do get the Jets, but they also get the Bengals and Panthers (and get the jets at home).
The browns in fact have the 25th easiest SoS and the easiest in the division so thats good news.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
You realize that we should have been an easy win for both NE and NO right? Any given Sunday.
"There is a small, but important difference between peeing in the pool and peeing into the pool." - Demitri Martin
Just like Baltimore, we have quite the defense. No way a team with as bad a defense as Houston has can beat Baltimore.
First of all Joe Haden is so good that I promise not to mention Earl Thomas any more. Second, that Miami defense is one hard hitting, physical defense. Finally, despite the almost pick 6, we won because Jake was best Qb on the field.
Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"
by realmccoy on Dec 5, 2010 5:36 PM EST via mobile reply actions 3 recs
Finally, despite the almost pick 6, we won because Jake was best Qb on the field.
Well, agreed, but it’s a little like saying my drive home was great except for the part where I missed getting hit broadside by a semi by six inches. Any road trip you walk away from is a good one?
I know, I’m slagging off on Jake a bit, but that throw just about killed me….
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 5, 2010 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
Haden is a shut down corner
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
Well, come on. Haden’s gotten lucky on a few of his plays. He is getting very close though.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 5, 2010 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
Has anybody seen any discussion of possible Defensive Rookies of the Year? Both Joe Haden and T.J. Ward should both be in the running. I know T.J. has fallen off just a bit, but I believe he leads all defensive rookies in tackles by over twenty. If we keep up the great drafts we really will be contenders in a few years!
if brian cushing could win the re-vote on last year’s DROY, then a couple of questionable hits won’t keep suh out of the winner’s circle.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 6, 2010 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
If he doesn’t get suspended. That forearm he threw today was filthy.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
was he the one that blasted Cutler from behind today?
"Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it."--Big Tom Callahan
… Not to mention the one that tried to rip off Jake Delhomme’s head in the pre-season. I’m still kinda pissed about that. Definitely should’ve been flagged.
Yup
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 5, 2010 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
It was flagged. He should’ve been ejected.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 5, 2010 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
I’m sure it will be all over sportscenter tonight. He drilled Cutler right in the back of the head from behind. Cutler dropped like a rag doll.
"Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it."--Big Tom Callahan
I thought the play was okay. He didn’t hit Cutler in the head.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 7, 2010 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
Ward will get votes leading all rookies in tackles and having 2 picks, and a blocked kick. Haden will get votes for being tied in lead with INT’s. At this pace, my guess is both finish in top 5.
I have this secret hope that Carlton Mitchell is one of those raw WRs that bursts out in year 3 out of nowhere.
He’s got size and legit 4.4 speed. Worth keeping around.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I hope so, but I’m afraid that Mitchell doesn’t have ‘natural’ good hands. For some reason it just seems like some guys have em (Larry Fitz) and some guys don’t (Ahem… Braylon)
"Smokescreen."
heckert emphasizes the defensive backfield, and clearly he has good reason to do so. he’s done a pretty great job scouting and selecting db’s (considering 3/4 of our starting db’s are heckert guys).
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 6, 2010 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
Delhomme
He did not look pretty, and only made one “almost devastingingly” bad pass, but he did enough to keep us in there to win. Decent job today.
One good drive and 80 checkdown passes to his TE and RB. Still hoping he doesn’t play another down in Cleveland.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Dec 5, 2010 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
you just described Colt McCoy’s career thus far.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
81 for 127, 975 yards, 3 TDs, 3 INTs
Hmmm… a lot better than 6 INTs half of which are pick sixes.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
Colt McCoy basically only throws to the TE and RBs, and isn’t exactly the catalyst of our offense. again, I would much rather have McCoy under center, but he hasn’t played like a pro-bowler or anything.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
What’s great is that he doesn’t need to put up pro-bowl stats. Our offense should be built around our future all-pro, Peyton Hillis.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
Well, eventually we’d like a QB that can do more than just manage a game. We can’t be a one trick pony through Hillis forever, and, besides, we are going to kill the guy.
by Western Reserve on Dec 6, 2010 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly. This is the first game in about the last 5 I’ve been able to watch down here in WV. They finally televised one!!! Anyways, just watching the runs today, Hillis is getting way too many carries. He is gonna end up beat down and wore out and out of the nfl way too early. Bell sucks, so I’m really hoping Hardesty stays healthy next year and pans out in the NFL to compliment Hillis.
"Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it."--Big Tom Callahan
What’s great is that he doesn’t need to put up pro-bowl stats.
None of our QB’s do. Look at the amount of games lost because of catastrophic mistakes coming from the quarterback. McCoy by and large avoided those mistakes when he got his chance.
Yes, it would be awesome to have a pro-bowl caliber QB but right now the Browns can win without one. They just need mistake free football.
by Monsters of the Midway on Dec 6, 2010 7:22 AM EST up reply actions
I think we have seen that defenses can and will shut Hillis down. A WR – QB combo for Plan B ain’t such a bad idea.
I am effing hurdling you and you can't stop me.
He throws to MoMass as much as Delhomme has in starts. And its not like Delhomme gets it to him much more often as a catchable ball. Personally, in this category I see it as a wash.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
so you’re agreeing with me?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 5, 2010 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
I am saying if there is a difference between colt and JD throwing to WRs, it is not very significant. Even before this game, their stats throwing to the WRs were similar. Delhomme was a bit better, but nothing too significant (like a 1-1.5 more targets per game at most to the WRs)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
If you will read how this conversation got started, someone was complaining that Jake threw too much to TEs and RBs, and for that reason never wanted to see him again. My point was that Colt throws to those players just as much or more. You are agreeing with me.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Seems like you’re going to a lot of effort to pull Delhomme even with McCoy. The problem with that game is that Delhomme should be a lot better than McCoy. He’s the veteran, he has the experience, he’s getting paid that way, he got the reps in the preseason.
If all Delhomme can do is play as well as our rookie, then he’s a backup, nothing more, because this team isn’t contending this year. Argue all you want about whether he’s been as good as one might expect – it’s meaningless, because as soon as McCoy is healthy, Delhomme is out. He’s Kerry Collins. Who cares?
And if you want to dig into the numbers, he’s actually worse. As rufio said above, the reward isn’t there with the risk. Delhomme is averaging 6.1 yards per attempt, McCoy is averaging 7.7. McCoy isn’t out there setting records, so it’s just not acceptable for Delhomme to be worse.
I’m not mad at the guy, just done with him.
If Colt is healthy, sure lets play him. However if delhomme can play mistake-free (or just limit mistakes) football like yesterday, he is a satisfactory substitute when Colt is injured.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
this is what I have been trying to say, in a much more roundabout manner.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
okay. I think we are pretty much on the same page then but just running in literary circle.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Bross, you definitely run in literary circles. I mean, just look at that prose!
by Western Reserve on Dec 6, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
yeah…I really didn’t mean it like that but couldn’t find a better word to say we were running circles with words (I just did…but I wanted to use that sentence structure)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
haha…could you thought of a better word? I know literal has an alternate definition that would have worked, but then people are thinking about the more common definition of literal and imagining me running round and round NTN in a circle
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
As I’ve stated numerous times, as soon as McCoy is healthy, he should play. I just feel like people are overreacting in both directions. Delhomme hasn’t been as bad as people think and McCoy hasn’t been as good. McCoy still makes rookie mistakes, and Delhomme (in just this past game) wasn’t as bad as people are saying.
McCoy has been better. he has not been better at throwing to WRs, which is how this started. There are good arguments for McCoy to start, tons of them, but that isn’t one.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
At the risk of courting yet another QB debate, I suspect a more interesting question isn’t whether Colt should play when healthy – um, yes – but whether Jake should be playing now instead of Seneca.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 6, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
I consider the two about even.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Probably so right now, but I feel that Seneca has more potential upside and more of a possible future here, so….
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 6, 2010 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think he has any upside left at 29, but he probably does have more of a future here.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 6, 2010 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
I guess I’m not convinced we’ve seen all there is to see with Seneca. With Jake, well, I think we probably have, and that’s not entirely a good thing.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 7, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
If Jake plays like he did yesterday, Jake 100%. If he has one of those games where he throws a couple bad picks, that is a more interesting question.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I like Jake and think he can still be a decent QB in this league. BUT he has got to stop panicking when getting hit and throwing those late balls of desparation that keep going for six points the other direction. He done it again this last game. That must stop, like yesterday.
"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden
ah…
I guess I misunderstood the train of argument. I don’t agree with the person who wanted Delhomme out after this game. I guess I do agree with you…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Actually what he just described is what a QB playing under center for the Browns is limited to given what he has to work with at this point. Given that limitation, I think Jake did a pretty good job today.
A stud wide receiver – hard to come by but would be a huge addition if the Browns could pick one up either through FA or draft day. Browns need someone who can stretch the field.
"Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 5, 2010 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
i wouldnt mind picking up vincent jackson from S.D. this offseason! then get another wr from the draft. i would like to see if blackmon declares at the end of this year?! i know alot of people here want green, but i think he is to much of a prima dona to work out here. imo i think blackmon is just as good minus the ego. i would also not mind getting alshon jefferies from s. carolina if he comes out next year!
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Dec 5, 2010 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
Julio Jones out of Alabama looks like a strong prospect.
Saw him play against Auburn – great athlete, great speed, very physical.
Reminded me of Michael Irvin.
"Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 5, 2010 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
he has dropped quite a few passes though, and some say he still needs to work on route running a little more. thats just my opinion though
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Dec 5, 2010 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
I did see him drop one in that game he should have caught.
Had 10 catches for 199 yards and a TD though.
Any prospect is going to have a route running learning curve, but everything I’ve read about him says he’s a hard worker.
"Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 5, 2010 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
I think floyd will be a better pro and I think he will have more impact the first year. Floyd has run pretty much the whole route tree in Weis’ Pro offense and has much more consistent hands.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Not that familiar with Floyd.
Not exactly sold on the “Weis Pro offense” disciple argument after watching Clausen so far though…
"Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 5, 2010 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
He pushes off on every play?
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
kinda notice that too! but he can be broke of that just like he can be taught to run routes better
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Dec 5, 2010 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
Michael Irvin reference? Just picked up on that.
I mostly meant his athleticism and physical style of play in general.
The kid is really strong and fast.
"Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 5, 2010 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
thats one reason i like blackmon okla. st., i think hes just as good as green and could really be a gem if he declares!
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Dec 5, 2010 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
I would LOVE for the draft to work out like Walterfootball has it working out now (dislike his analysis but has very good mock drafts). In his, Robert Quinn drops and we pick him up in the first. Michael Floyd also drops and we pick him up in the 2nd. I would rather have him than Julio Jones.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
i would take floyd over jones! would rather have bowers than quinn, but i doubt he falls to us
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Dec 5, 2010 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
jonathan baldwin is also an option. the only thing about him is that he doesn’t seem to get a lot of separation and his speed is questionable. still, the guy has awesome hands, concentration and size.
Jake is my hommeboy
i also wouldnt mind if we dropped back picked up some picks and took baldwin!
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Dec 5, 2010 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
he also looks slow in his breaks and isn’t very fluid in his motions. If he didn’t have great speed, but had very good lateral agility and fluidity, I wouldn’t worry as much. the problem is that the only way he truly beats guys is his height.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I love Jones. His hands need to improve, but he is playing with a broken one this year.
Doesn’t remind me of Irvin as much, but I don’t really care about that. Bama fans keep telling me he’s said he won’t leave in the draft unless he’s a top-5 pick, and he isn’t at this point.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Again, another guy with fantastic physical skills. Every time I hear “dropsies problem” I fear that the guy doesn’t have natural good hands. Give me the guy who the ball just seems to stick to, not the guy who has to double catch everything.
"Smokescreen."
Have you seen the kid play? He doesn’t have to double-catch everything.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Agree. A guy who put up 199 yards averaging 20 yards per catch against Auburn probably doesn’t have to double-catch everything.
"Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 9, 2010 8:00 AM EST up reply actions
May be. But covered or not covered, you gotta catch the ball, and I don’t think you’re going to put up 199 yards / average 20 yards per catch receiving against Auburn, who is playing for their lives to preserve their BCS title hopes, if you can’t catch balls without ‘double-catching everything’.
Guys who have real problems with dropping balls (don’t have good hands) tend to drop balls whether they’re wide open or they’re covered.
I’m not saying Jones necessarily has the greatest hands – apparently he has dropped a few, just saying the statement “he has to double-catch everything” is a bit of a stretch when you look at his stats.
Jones may not have the best hands of all the elite college receivers, but he has a lot of other positives that I’ve seen in a couple games and I’ve read about in several scouting write-ups – i.e. very strong, physical athletic player, very fast, excellent blocking, hard working, etc.
"Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 10, 2010 9:19 AM EST up reply actions
actually, braylon edwards always seemed to catch the ball when covered when in college. It was the quick pass, the screen pass, the one where he was wide open that he missed more often. In many cases (and I believe in Julio’s case too), its less about “bad hands” and more about “inconsistent concentration”
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Want to recommend Posnanski’s article in this week’s SI about Pioli as well. Talks about Pioli’s belief in building a team of guys with good character. Good read
Sounds like my kind of article. Re: Colt McCoy ;)
"Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 5, 2010 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
understood, but v jax’s issues i think had to do more with a.j. smith who seems to be an a@@. i think he would do ok imo
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Dec 5, 2010 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
I believe he was serving a 4 game suspension for DUI to start this season. That coupled with a contract holdout seems like a big no for Mangini.
didnt know he was a drunkard!! lol. maybe not a good fit but i would like to see who we look at in the draft!
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Dec 5, 2010 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for the heads up. Look forward to reading it. Here’s the link:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1179410/1/index.htm
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
Thanks for the link golan, bookmarked.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 5, 2010 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve heard good things about Julio Jones – hard worker, etc.
"Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 5, 2010 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
I feel a heck of a lot better with McCoy under center.
On a game when we’re down and need a drive to win, I would rather have McCoy than Delhomme every time.
This x1000.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 5, 2010 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with you. I have been hard on Delhomme since the Browns signed him so today when he did not kill us, I thought I would he did ok. I think the Browns’s offense is designed with a mobile quarterback in mind. Everything slows down and becomes vanilla with Delhomme. He did enough to win today. I want McCoy back as starter. I say in two weeks.
I think the Browns’s offense is designed with a mobile quarterback in mind.
?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Hes super fast. The surprising thing would have been if the Raiders didn’t pick him. Or that they didn’t pick him sooner.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
broke like your fantasy league team this week…hahahahaha
"Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it."--Big Tom Callahan
by Kimble_79 on Dec 5, 2010 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
In my opinion the Browns took a big step today in learning how to win the type of game they need to know how to win to be successful in the AFC North. This was a very physical game in the trenches, and for as bad as the Offenses’ looked, a Defensive battle. It wasn’t pretty, just as late season close games against the Steelers and Ravens won’t be. This was a Miami team that was built to be physical and we didn’t look at all like we were pushed around, other than the usual right side of the O-line. Good win.
What does that MEAN - TO PLAY US OUT?!!?!?
dierdorf pointed out mangini’s “pyramid” of a team’s progression during the game, and i thought it was interesting. in order, a team needs to learn how to:
1. work
2. compete
3. win
4. win consistently
thinking back on the last 2 years, that progression is pretty evident in the browns’ performance. feels like we’re somewhere in the middle of tier 3.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 6, 2010 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah. I have heard mangini say that before. It does make a lot of sense and one you buy into the system, thats when you start being more consistent at being in tiers 2 and 3. I feel we really started to buy into the system at the end of last year (not just the 4 wins in a row but the 3 previous games I feel we bought in) and were into tiers 2 and 3. Now, we need another piece or two and another year in the system and I think we an be at tier 4.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Woah, that’s some bullsh*t.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
5 picks in 5 strait games, and those douchebags list Eric f**king Wright……
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
by Simmsinns on Dec 5, 2010 7:06 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
they list the starters from earlier in the year. simmer.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 6, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
Come on, throw a touchdown pass to Tamme!
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
Miami can keep Lebron and the ESPN Heat. Give me the Browns over the Fins every day of the week.
by Roger Dorn on Dec 5, 2010 7:26 PM EST reply actions 10 recs
Baltimore vs. Pittsburgh… who do we want to win? I know, it’s like asking if you’d rather be stabbed or shot.
I’m just hoping its a sloberknocker, just blasting into each other at full speed, handing out concussions like their free frosties.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
After all the sloberknocking and blasting I want the theme song for that game to be “These boots were made for walkin”.
Walkin boots all around – players lined up tomorrow before practice to pick up a pair.
"Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 5, 2010 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
We’re all still hanging on to the chance that we can still make the playoffs. Baltimore has the tougher schedule going forward, and thus are more likely to falter going in. By this logic, I will root for Pittsburgh, as much as it will pain me to do so.
"There is a small, but important difference between peeing in the pool and peeing into the pool." - Demitri Martin
I’ll root for spontaneous stadium implosion.
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 5, 2010 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
I’m rooting for the meteor.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 5, 2010 7:52 PM EST up reply actions 9 recs
Baltimore vs. Pittsburgh… who do we want to win?
The comet.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 5, 2010 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
I will sit there and watch the game as neutral as Switzerland. If the outcome happens to benefit the Browns then all the better – but I wouldn’t be caught dead actually “rooting” for either of those teams.
What does that MEAN - TO PLAY US OUT?!!?!?
Im just happy to get to watch these 2 games coming up. Ravens/Steelers and Jets/Pats…you can’t beat that for a sunday/monday night lineup…sick of seeing boring NFC matchups during primetime.
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 5, 2010 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t want to jinx it, but it would suck if those were boring too.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
As much as I hate them, the Ravens and Steelers hate each other too much for that game to be boring.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 5, 2010 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
I’m hoping for a lot of injuries out of this game, don’t care who wins!
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Dec 5, 2010 8:37 PM EST reply actions
Hahaha, Big Ben may have a broken nose
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
zz
Colinsworth tries to rile up the Pittsburgh faithful…
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
I mean, he did get hit in the face…obviously…which is usually a penalty.
by DisplacedBuckeye on Dec 5, 2010 8:45 PM EST up reply actions
I think he was falling down, but I may be wrong.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
yeah he was, but if they can call a b.s. penalty on suh from the lions game?!! i thought they were really cracking down on it whether intentional or not.
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Dec 5, 2010 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t see Suh’s penalty, so I can’t really speak to that. I am of the opinion that if it’s unintentional, a play like that shouldn’t be penalized, but the NFL may not agree.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
which is correct. unintentional should not be called. they said suh put a forearm to the back of cutlers head after he became a runner past the line of scrimmage. he gave him a good push with his fists but hit him in the top of the shoulder pads before his hands went up to the back of his helmet. so they flagged him.
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Dec 5, 2010 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
a link here clearly shows that he had beaten his man, backup Ramon Foster, and after being beat the blocker pushes him, trying to bring him down and inadvertently pushes him right into Big Ben. Ngata is off balance and he grabs onto ben to bring him down, but it looks like also to regain his footing because he is falling.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
hes not riling us up in findlay thats for sure!!!! his disclaiming us as his hometown is biting him and his ego right in the a@@!!!! love it
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Dec 5, 2010 8:46 PM EST reply actions
WE need some right side of the OLine Help
Was it Womack that got beat badly on one sack. We need two guys over there on that side. Our starters are on that side are average at best.
No, St. Clair messed up his responsibility and Womack had to correct but failed. Once again, St. Clair is bad.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 5, 2010 9:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
was that on the last sack by wake??
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Dec 5, 2010 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
yes. Womack completely missed his responsibility and was nowhere near the guy (I think it was wake) and Womack desperately tried to do something but was out of position b/c it wasn’t his responsibility.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
yeah the running back or tight end completely missed on getting a shot on him to slow hi down as well, that was a blownassignment all the way around. you could almost say that all three didnt do what they were or supposed to do on that play.
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Dec 5, 2010 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t blame womack. It seemed pretty clear his assignment was not primarily to block the edge. I don’t know even if there was a back in the area so until I find a clip, I will assume it was all St. Clair.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
St. Clair messed up his responsibility
yes. Womack completely missed his responsibility
?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Are you sure it wasn’t a dual read by the guard?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
yeah, I’m not sure who messed up, but somebody missed that read. they had St. Claire on the #1 with the guard blocking nobody. at the very least the guard should have been able to push St. Claire off onto #2.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
somebody missed really badly, and delhomme was (rightly) pissed about it. that was a really bad play.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 6, 2010 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
I was watching a clip where Ben’s nose gets wrecked. I noticed one thing. the Pittsburgh O-Line is FAT. I mean, I know O-Lineman are all bigger guys, but look at Joe Thomas. the guy isn’t just blubber, but is ridiculously ripped. Steinbach also is pretty slim and Mack is about average for an O-Lineman. Womack is our heaviest lineman at about 328. Kemoatu is 345! That dude has a huge stomach (though I will admit I am not much of one to talk).
Just something I noticed…It makes sense then why these guys aren’t good pass blockers and get beaten by speed guys.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Look at this BS write up of the game from the Associated Press:
The jeers came often Sunday for the Dolphins. They managed to look even more inept than the hapless Browns, who stumbled to a 13-10 win.
As Miami and Cleveland traded punts and mistakes, the question was which team would find a way to lose, and a last-minute Dolphins turnover gave the Browns the win.
Hapless Browns? The same Browns who have won four of the last six? The same Browns who had 0 turnovers and played suffocating defense? That writer is an asshat.
Nothing to worry about. Written by the same idiot that wrote up the summary of the Panthers game.
The headline from that masterpiece: “Browns withstand Panthers’ furious comeback”
Really had to laugh at that one. The headline alone gives him away as a mentally impaired imposter posing as a sports writer.
(link to Panther game article from same idiot)
"Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 5, 2010 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
to be fair, we did look pretty hapless on offense for the most part. I mean in today’s nfl scoring only 13 points against anyone is pretty hapless; when the good teams seem like they can put up 25 or 30 almost every week.
"Smokescreen."
Pittsburgh has four victories this year scoring under 20 points. They scored 13 last night. They won with 19 in Buffalo.
New Orleans put up 12 less points on Carolina than we did and still won.
Sometimes teams play good defense.
by Monsters of the Midway on Dec 6, 2010 7:33 AM EST up reply actions
Last night the Steelers defeated the Ravens 13-10 thanks to a great defensive play at the end of the game (sound familiar?). Collinsworth was gushing about the game being an instant classic that should be replayed numerous times. Here’s some excerpts from the AP writeup:
A fierce defensive battle turned when Polamalu hit Flacco’s arm on a safety blitz. LaMarr Woodley returned the loose ball 19 yards to the Baltimore 9, setting up Pittsburgh’s lone touchdown.
The game was a defensive battle, as expected. And Polamalu and Roethlisberger again made the difference.
Amazing how different the national media’s perception is of two very similar games.
I definitely see your point; I was thinking of the same thing.
With that said, as good as both the Browns and Dolphins did at defending, the look and feel of the intensity in the Steelers/Ravens game was definitely higher. Also, the expectations for shutting down Roethlisberger/Flacco vs. Henne/Delhomme are different.
Even myself, I would say that was one heck of a fun Sunday night game to watch. If I watched the Browns/Dolphins game without being a Browns fan, I probably would’ve tried to see if some other games were on.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Dec 6, 2010 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
I am probably in the minority, but I would much rather watch a game where our defense outplays our offense than vice versa. Give me a 13-10 physical game over a 24-23 game.
Everything Chris just said. I found the Baltimore/Pitt game to be a great game. I can’t say the same about the Browns/Fins game — though I loved a lot of plays.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 6, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
Still, I think it is ridiculous to describe the Browns as either “inept” or “hapless”. The Browns are neither.
Who described them as such?
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 6, 2010 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
they were described as hapless in the AP write-up.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
The same guy who said that Carolina had a “furious comeback”.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 6, 2010 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
Still, I think it is ridiculous to describe the Browns as either "inept" or "hapless". The Browns are neither.
I agree — I think the Browns have plenty of hap.
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 6, 2010 9:39 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
We’re also ept.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
i’d even suggest that browns fans are quite gruntled, at this point.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 6, 2010 9:52 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
everyone is extremely gruntled?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Quick note on how awesome Hoheni is:
Player A: 50 catches, 574 yards, 3 TD’s
Player B: 50 catches, 506 yards, 2 TD’s
I will give ya’ll about 30 minutes to try and guess. Blew my mind. I knew this dude was playing great, but he has been an absolute steal. All praise Hoheni!
Player A is Ben Watson, my guess for player B is KWII
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 5, 2010 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
If B is KWII, have to give Mangenius some credit.
by Roger Dorn on Dec 5, 2010 10:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bingo.
Watson has given us everything K2 does and more. Between Watson (whose nickname should be “Elementary”) and Fujita, those two under the radar signings have been awesome.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 5, 2010 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
All that without the childish antics, contract whining and missed practice time.
What does that MEAN - TO PLAY US OUT?!!?!?
I viewed Winslow in a much better light than Edwards. K2 always seemed to put out on the field. I had no problem with trading him though. Those knees and that contract…enjoy it Tampa Bay!
by Monsters of the Midway on Dec 6, 2010 7:35 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I still have a lot of love for K2, despite some of his theatrics. I never felt like he quit on us. Though I agree the trade was a good move at the time. Wish we’d gotten someone better with his pick but that’s the draft - sometimes you hit, sometimes you don’t
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 6, 2010 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
I always like Winslow. He played hard and he played hurt.
That being said, I hate his contract.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 6, 2010 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
More power to him for getting it.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 6, 2010 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed. WIth this and what TDSH said below. More power to him, though now he has got it he hasn’t fully lived up to it.
I like K2 and all, but considering salaries, I am glad we have Ben Watson.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
K2 was always a really talented player and I love his hands, but the guy was really expensive for a tight end and I don’t think he was too happy with the browns over the whole staph-infection fiasco.
However I have to admit that during the draft I was surprised that mangini traded k2 and kept edwards, because I never thought that K2 was a ‘team cancer’ in the same breath as the perpetually petulant Braylon, even if K2 was a little skrewy in the head.
However I suppose it could have been the case that k2 generated interest and Braylon didn’t. Man the Jets are dumb.
"Smokescreen."
and his base salary is about half the money. Not that it matters as much in an uncapped year, but if the cap comes back (which I expect it to), watson will make 2.4 mil on his current contract for 2011 and K2 will make 8.3 in 2011…
Even if you look at K2s rookie contract, Ben Watson is still a great bargain….and healthier and not too much older.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
A bunch of people looked over the Watson signing, I thought it was huge.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 5, 2010 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
I believe I predicted the Ben “my dear” Watson signing as being important.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I thought the Benny “and The Jets” Watson signing was good as well.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 6, 2010 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
I think this is huge.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
i always thought watson underperformed in new england, for whatever reason, and that he was pretty close to breaking out. he’s a super-talented guy … i see him being an important part of the offense for several years to come.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 6, 2010 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
Yup.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 6, 2010 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
I have to guess that his relationship with belicheck soured somehow, becuase watson did have a couple good years for the patriots and belicheck loved his effort (I seem to remember a play where he ran like 80 yards to prevent a score on an INT return) but all of a sudden it seemed like they stopped using him and belicheck no longer held him in any sort of esteem.
Interesting that we are calling watson a steal while new england had no problem letting him go in favor of using draft picks on two similar players? Kinda like the Josh McDaniels / Peyton Hillis head scratcher — it makes you wonder.
"Smokescreen."
Wishful Thinking
This Ratbirds vs. Stillers game is a bloodbath. Hope they swipe each other out. That headshot Miller just took was brutal.
I'm Polish...what's your excuse?
That was vicious. I hate the Steelers and their whiny ass fans, but that should have been a flag.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 5, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
There’s a note at the end of the game recap on si.com that Evan Moore hurt his hip in the game. Hope it isn’t serious. He missed a year and a half, I think, with a dislocated hip at Stanford.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
Maybe this is old news, but did anyone notice our boy James Davis got 40 yards on 9 carries today for Washington? Wouldn’t it be nice to get that out of Mike Bell or ANY RB that isn’t Peyton Hillis?
by shep615 on Dec 6, 2010 12:48 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Confusing End...
Was anyone else confused/upset when we knelt the ball 3x at the 2-yard line to set up a FG instead of trying to punch it in with Hillis a few times? Why not try and go up by 7 with a minute to go rather than suggest that we have no faith in the only two things we have going for us right now, Peyton Hillis and the defense!
He could’ve gotten stuffed, fumbled, f-ed up in a number of ways.
I had no problem playing it safe and killing the clock for an assured win.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 6, 2010 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
It was the smart thing to do, punch it in on the 1st play and they get the ball back with about a minute left to tie the game. We decided to take the conservative approach and it payed off.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 6, 2010 2:04 AM EST up reply actions
They pretty much played it by the book. Reminds me of this last year from MJD and the Jags (which was arguably a little questionable because they were down 1).
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 6, 2010 2:34 AM EST up reply actions
This goes back to the Jags game.
If we scored, we were giving the Dolphins their only chance to win/tie.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 6, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
Just for kicks, I’m going to do a ridiculous, “these are the teams we need to root for in order to get a wildcard spot” post in a little bit. It’s not that I legitimately believe we’ll get into the playoffs, but since we’re not “officially” eliminated at this point of the season for once, why not get some fun out of it?
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Dec 6, 2010 10:49 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
That’s the spirit that made America great.
by Monsters of the Midway on Dec 6, 2010 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
The spirit of Massachusetts?
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 6, 2010 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
No matter what you write, I refuse to root for the Ravens or Steelers for any reason. The ends sometimes do not justify the means.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
. The ends sometimes do not justify the means.
Your sick Grandfather is loaded. What do?
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 6, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
he’s sick, I don’t need to do anything.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
well I think we will be rooting a lot against the ravens now. they are now holding the WC spot so if we want to get into the playoffs, they have to lose almost all the rest of their games…
We also have a decent shot if the Jets lose out too
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
football night in america showed an “afc playoff hunt” graphic last night, and the browns appeared in the “in the hunt” column. i was speechless.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 6, 2010 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
…AND OF COURSE,
yet another opposing teams newspaper calling a loss to the Browns the ‘worst loss of the season’ because, simply, ’it’s the BROWNS, people, C’MON.’
http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/12/06/1959212/rain-of-boos-well-deserved.html
local reporter can’t take enough time to look at the schedule results and make some informed decisions as to the type of team they will be facing…the extent of the research is basically “we lost the the Browns. The Browns suck and the coaches are going to be fired.”
This is, of course, abut the 5th time this year this has been the prevailing opinion in another city. Hell, even The Phinsider, which should know alot more and alot better, added this on the pregame prediction. “I’m a little surprised that there are analysts out there who think that the Browns will actually win”
I have to admit I’m loving this…not gonna trot out that old tired ‘we get no respect’ cliche that everybody and their sister thinks applies to THEIR team…but I am getting immense satisfaction from reading this stuff every week after a win.
One of the Fins players said he was in complete shock because he thought they were going to crush the Browns. That is just bad coaching if that is the case.
One of the Fins players said he was in complete shock because he thought they were going to crush the Browns. That is just bad coaching if that is the case.
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 6, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
One of the Fins players said he was in complete shock because he thought they were going to crush the Browns. That is just bad coaching if that is the case.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
One of the Fins players said he was in complete shock because he thought they were going to crush the Browns. That is just bad coaching if that is the case.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
One of the Fins players said he was in complete shock because he thought they were going to crush the Browns. That is just bad coaching if that is the case.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 6, 2010 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
One of the Fins players said he was in complete shock because he thought they were going to crush the Browns. That is just bad coaching if that is the case.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 6, 2010 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
I think they may be thinking of it from the point that the browns have the worst record of any team they have faced. However even thought its the pats, its much worse being blown out by them and its much worse to get shut out by the Bears…thats just my opinion
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
However even thought its the pats, its much worse being blown out by them and its much worse to get shut out by the Bears…thats just my opinion
That’s my main point. I would assert a blowout loss to a division rival (especially since they seemed to harbor playoff aspirations up to this point) and a shut out loss against the Bears would be a lot more ‘tough’ to take than a close loss to a team that, while clearly not as talented as the other 2, is pretty much a shoo-in to at least give you a hard-fought, physical matchup. The Browns not doing so has become the exception and not the rule. Teams would be well-advised to be aware of that.
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 7, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Eat it, Phinsider.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Dec 7, 2010 4:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
One of the Fins players said he was in complete shock because he thought they were going to crush the Browns. That is just bad coaching if that is the case.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
Now that’s some groupthink.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 6, 2010 8:53 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I know this is going to sound unbelievable, but here it is.
I heard recently that one of the Fins players said he was in complete shock because he thought they were going to crush the Browns. That is just downright bad coaching if that is the case.
"Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 6, 2010 9:18 PM EST reply actions
I know – hard to believe. What puzzles me is that I seem to be the first one to hear about it.
No one else has brought it up and I’m left scratching my head.
"Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 6, 2010 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
Well, I think the whole gist of it is that a professional athlete, who happens to be a member of one of the National Football Leagues 32 teams based in South Florida (the city of Miami), mentioned that he was completely incredulous to the fact that his team, whose moniker derives from marine mammals that are closely related to whales and porpoises and found worldwide, mostly in the shallower seas of the continental shelves—managed to accrue less points at the end of 4 15 minute quarters of play than the opposing team—a team based out of the City of Cleveland, a municipality located in northeastern Ohio on the southern shore of Lake Erie, approximately 60 miles (100 km) west of the Pennsylvania border. Indeed, said athlete initially hypothesized that his team would in fact dominate the contest, a fact which would leave many with the inevitable conclusion that the head coach of the team, who is responsible for the composition and development of players on the team, aims to stimulate players to uncover innate knowledge so they can achieve a sustainable result, was ultimately responsible for overall team and player demeanor
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 7, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I couldn’t have said this better myself. Glad someone finally did.
"Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 7, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
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