Idle Thinking - Josh McDaniels???
by Spidey on Dec 6, 2010 10:58 AM EST
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PrintIt's a Monday after a Browns victory and we have a few days of idle thinking before talk of Buffalo heats up. I want to avoid talk of playoff odds and the draft. Instead, this unlikely scenario is in my mind: Josh McDaniels is a dead man walking in Denver, and justifiably so; which leads me to wonder what will become of him next season and if the Browns might be a mutually good fit...
I know most dislike the guy here on DBN, and he has been a failure when dealing with his elite players. He will forever be known as the guy who traded Peyton Hillis for a stud-muffin QB who couldn't even beat out Derek Anderson for the starting job during training camp. (Then again, Anderson did beat out Leinert in Arizona...). And drafting Tebow in the 1st round was awful. The list goes on and on.
But, setting aside the personnel decisions, the guy clearly knows how to run an offense and coach QBs. One or two seasons with Colt McCoy, and McDaniels could set up the Browns for many years of offensive success. (Plus, it would be an awesome way to stick it to Belichick).
What's in it for McDaniels? He can push reset on his coaching career and join an organization where he can have an inside look at how personnel decisions are handled (sitting in on any meetings with Holmgren and Heckert would be invaluable); he can learn how a head coach who was kicked to the curb by most in the league (and media) resurrected his career; he can see how Mangini learned to adjust his leadership style; and he can be in a position to return to a head coaching job in 3-4 years.
Folks forget how Rob Ryan has resurrected his coaching career in Cleveland, too. Some give him the benefit of the doubt for the failings in Oakland, but many put the blame for the poor defense at Rob's feet. Now, Rob is considered a head coaching candidate in some places.
Just idle speculation...
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Mrs. McDaniels is all for it.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Dec 6, 2010 11:26 AM EST reply actions 7 recs
Ha…you don’t realize how appropriate mentioning TWSS here is.
It was rumored that there was something going on between Peyton Hillis and Josh McDaniels’ wife. There was some speculating that it was an affair and some that it was just him hitting on her. This is the reason many suspect hillis was shafted for playing time and why he was shipped out.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
What is TWSS?
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by TheRealSlimShady on Dec 7, 2010 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
Does it really have anything to do with TRSS?
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by TheRealSlimShady on Dec 7, 2010 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, I figured it was an inside joke on here.
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by TheRealSlimShady on Dec 7, 2010 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Haha, NICE! I didn’t even click the links. Well played. I should have seen it coming to.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
That would be hilarious, we would have cost him a job and given him one in the span of one season. I doubt he’ll end up in Cleveland though.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 6, 2010 12:02 PM EST reply actions
I don’t know if McDaniels , is the answer, but I don’t think Daboll is it for sure. We do need a change,
Browns, Indians, and Cavs,
Cleveland Fans, Support all of your teams.
by dawginhouston on Dec 7, 2010 2:55 AM EST up reply actions
I’m fine with firing Daboll, but not with giving a job to McDaniels.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
I agree. I don’t think McDaniels is the answer. If the guy cannot spot a talent like Hillis, then why would we want him as OC? Also, if Hillis did happen to hit on his wife, again why would we want him as OC? The former being more important than the latter of course.
"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden
McDaniels will be the Broncos head coach next year.
The owner has stated this for various reasons.
1. The CBA.
2. He’s still paying Shanahan, he would then still be paying McDaniels and a now third coach.
3. He still wants to see if McDaniels plan plays out.
So, wouldn’t happen anyways.
ROHC THE SOHC.
I believe #2 would be the biggest reason.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 6, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
This past weekend the owner failed to give McDaniels the full seal of approval – even saying he wants to wait til the end of the season.
Is it possible to fire him for just-cause (due to the video incident)? I would think any smart owner would wise up and correct an apparent mistake like this. But this owner also dumped Shanahan.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Dec 6, 2010 3:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Of course… the day I post this…
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 6, 2010 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
Are you advocating McDaniels instead of Daboll or instead of Mangini? Yes to the former, bigtime no to the latter.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
he can learn how a head coach who was kicked to the curb by most in the league (and media) resurrected his career; he can see how Mangini learned to adjust his leadership style; and he can be in a position to return to a head coaching job in 3-4 years.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 6, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
That’s what I get for skimming, but the article should have stated up front what position the author wished McDaniels to be hired.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
Not meant to replace Mangini, but Daboll. I also wonder if McDaniels has fallen so far that he can’t get an OC job. Maybe je goes to Carolina with the new HC and coaches up whoever they draft.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Dec 6, 2010 3:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Naw…OC/DCs with head coaching experience…even if it was a horrible one…are generally pretty hot commodities. If Cam Cameron, Marinelli, and Linehan can get jobs…anyone can.
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 6, 2010 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
Guy does know how to coach QBs.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 6, 2010 2:26 PM EST reply actions
Intended or unintended pun?
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Dec 6, 2010 4:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Intended or unintended pun?
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Dec 6, 2010 4:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Intended or unintended pun?
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by TheRealSlimShady on Dec 7, 2010 7:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hell yes.
McDaniels seems like a “Class-A Douche”, but the guy knows how to get the best out of his quarterbacks. I would love for Josh McDaniels and Mike Holmgren to be the two biggest influences in grooming Colt.
Then how about QB coach?
I’m not up for him as OC.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 6, 2010 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
yeah. He really got the best out of Cutler.
I’d take him. As long as he left his lack-of-player-managment behind him.
by discoinferno083 on Dec 6, 2010 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
Says the guy with the Phillip Rivers avatar.
Stuckey watch: 31/30. Haha! I AM SET YOU UP THE BOMB!!!!
by BrownDawg1409 on Dec 7, 2010 12:28 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Well… its official, he is fired. He and his wife are both from northern Ohio, but I don’t think that he and mangini are on the best or terms and there is obviously something negative between him and Peyton Hillis.
Terriffic offensive mind though, clearly. Probably shouldn’t have gotten fired as well as he has had that offense playing, even if he is an asshole. I can’t see a way to fault him for being 3-7 because his team lost its two best players (Dumervil and Ryan Clady) before the season even started. Any team that goes into the season without its all pro left tackle and all pro outside pass rusher are going to be in for a bumpy ride.
"Smokescreen."
It goes back further than just this year…look at the collapse last year, coupled with some very, very questionable trade/draft moves (as we all know haha), and the new ‘spygate’ scandal. He’s alienated that fanbase and embarrassed the organization, and you can’t do that and get any benefit of the doubt when your win/loss record sucks.
I’m surprised he lasted as long as he did.
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 6, 2010 6:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It wasn’t all this year though.
From multiple events (Cutler, Marshall, etc) to his overall record, that was his undoing.
Last year’s 8-8 record is very deceiving. Denver started 6-0 last season, but finished 2-8. This year, they are 3-9. Add that together, they are 5-17 over the past 22, with various team issues (Marshall, taping, bad trades – Hillis). It all snowballed.
Good thing Bowlen is made of $$.
Probably shouldn’t have gotten fired as well as he has had that offense playing
No, he SHOULD have gotten fired and the only reason it wouldn’t make sense is what SB pointed out above about how they would be paying him AND shanahan AND another coach.
All you are making is a case that he would be a very good Offensive Coordinator.
So he can make the offense work, can he win games? can he coach up a team? can he motivate his players? can he handle personnel decisions? I will answer all 4 with one word…NO
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
He definitely should have been fired. Years ago. That franchise is ruined. Anyone think another coach can get this kind of production out of Orton? Tebow? Brandon Lloyd?
McDaniels was hired to manage that whole organization, not just an offense. He did an awful job.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Spidey is actually Pat Bowlen, owner of the Broncos.
He created this post knowing how savvy the dawgsbynature folks are and to get a read on our take on things.
Notice the three question marks (“Idle Thinking – Josh McDaniels???”) at the end of the title – wanted be sure to draw attention because he needed to make a decision today.
Soon after reading the thread he created here, he decided firing McDaniels was the right thing to do and made his move. Crafty SOB.
"Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 6, 2010 10:21 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
McDaniels knows offense, and we need some offense. I was on board for this, but after reading the article about Pioli, I am against it.
Rob Ryan did a tremendous job in Oakland. He was forced to do things a certain way, a way he didn’t believe in. He made the best of it, turned Nnamdi into a monster, and made a respectable defense out of replacement level players with no offense to keep them off the field.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Do we really need to fire Daboll? I was completely against him last season, but I actually think he’s vastly improved this year. The only thing I would call for is more downfield throws, but we can’t blame Daboll for Delhomme’s pick 6s or the fact that Seneca Wallace threw every single deep ball out of bounds. I think he’s done a really nice job breaking Colt McCoy in during a brutal 4 game stretch, and I guess we don’t know for sure whether Mangini or Daboll is responsible but we have gotten much more creative on offense for the most part, essentially winning us the NE game. I also think it would hurt McCoy’s development to get a new OC after only one year
by sww2109 on Dec 7, 2010 1:36 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I posted this in another thread, but I’m quite proud of it, so I thought it could go here as well.
"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden
by Kimble_79 on Dec 7, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
needs to say Offensive Play Calling for Dummies instead.
by talonk on Dec 7, 2010 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
ha, my photo shop skills are not quite that good
"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden
He has improved. My problem is that he hasn’t improved enough. Obviously it would be great to be able to talk to him and explain his thinking but I hate a lot of our passing concepts based on what I see on Sundays.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I think if you want Hillis to keep getting carries you should avoid this. But he would be a great hire otherwise.
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by TheRealSlimShady on Dec 7, 2010 7:05 PM EST reply actions
I don’t understand why everyone thinks that McDaniels would all of the sudden not use Hillis.
I understand their history in Denver, but McDaniels seems like a smart guy. I am sure that he would adapt his offense to a more physical kind of game. After all, he didn’t have a problem getting the ball to Knowshon Moreno when he was healthy.
When Matt Cassel was his QB, he threw the ball 516 times and the Pats ran the ball 513 times. I mean the guy got 1234 yards on 239 carries (5.16 YPC) from Sammy Morris and Kevin Faulk that season. The guy knows how to make an offense work.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 7, 2010 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
Also, I think Holmgren is smart enough to let McDaniels know that if he tries any bs shenanigans like that he’ll never coach in this league again.
One of the Fins players said he was in complete shock because he thought they were going to crush the Browns. That is just bad coaching if that is the case.
but McDaniels seems like a smart guy.
What makes you say that? Trading all the talent away… or drafting Tim Tebow in the first round… or maybe spygate 2.0?
He took a good team and ran them strait into the ground.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
by Simmsinns on Dec 8, 2010 8:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
His player evaluation and GM’ing skills suck. Doesn’t mean he is an idiot. Plus Tebow can’t be viewed as a mistake yet, we all have our doubts, but that isn’t fair.
The fact that he was the offensive coordinator and play caller for the most explosive offense in NFL history is proof enough for me.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 8, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
He also has turned Kyle Orton, Brandon Lloyd, and Jabar Gaffney into this Denver offense.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
The guy is coordinates passing offenses.
The Browns are, should be, far from it, nor would I like to see them become a passing offense.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
by Simmsinns on Dec 8, 2010 5:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The Browns are, should be, far from it, nor would I like to see them become a passing offense.
this sounds like a mooncamping sentence.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
We have Peyton Hillis, I really don’t want to become an 80 rushing yards per game team.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
problem is: teams that can pass the ball win the super bowl.
Teams that act like running the ball 35 times a game and only taking shots with play action (never using the short pass to set up the run) isn’t an antiquated strategy eventually get blown out by the patriots 45-3.
"Smokescreen."
teams that can run the ball win the super bowl. So what?
The Colts just lost to Dallas is overtime… the freaking Cowboys. What is this prove? Absolutely nothing, because trying to prove a blanket claim about what it takes to win a Super Bowl by citing just one game is makes for a terrible argument. (Interestingly enough though, they were 4-2 with Joseph Addai, and 2-4 since losing him.)
All this seems useless though, because I’m not even sure what exactly your stance is. You think we should hire McDaniels? If so, your comment does nothing to further that case. And my point still stands, becoming a pass heavy offense is very dumb idea given our current personnel.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
except for last year when the ravens beat up the patriots in the playoffs.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 9, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
except forlastthis year when theravensBrowns beat up the patriots in the playoffs.
Fixed
"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden
I just think McDaniels’ ego is too large for our current situation. I really don’t think he would take to being under Mangini, especially because if I remember correctly they have a less than stellar relationship to begin with.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
I just think McDaniels’ ego is too large for our currentsituationstadium.
Better, I think. No thanks.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 8, 2010 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with this. While I don’t hate McD as an OC, I don’t see this relationship being realistically any good.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I think it is one thing to call him and offer condolences and advice, and another to offer him a job. Different relationships. I don’t think McDaniels is as hateable as most would think at this point, and I think Mangini knows from experience that you can make yourself less hateable.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I don’t think McDaniels is as hateable as most would think at this point,
tell that to Hillis, Cutler, B. Marshall, Denver’s CB (name escapes me right now), and anyone who’s a Bronco fan.
the guy can OC.
other than that, let’s not get too generous.
by discoinferno083 on Dec 11, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
I also think it wouldn’t work with anyone at this point because IMO, he wouldn’t want to go from controlling a roster and a team to just controlling an offense. I have heard somewhere that their relationship may be strained, but that would just make what I think is not a great fit, worse.
If McD truly would be fine being an OC again, I would be for it.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Mangini: Hey Josh, how are you? So sorry to hear that you were fired. I feel somewhat bad because I completely took you to the cleaners on that trade. I would offer you a job, but I heard your wife can’t stay away from Peyton.
McDaniels: /begins sobbing loudly
"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden
by Kimble_79 on Dec 8, 2010 9:36 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Look at how Orton has done without McDaniels…
He would be a legend and a leader for the Browns.
***FREE FREEBRADSHAW***
by TheRealSlimShady on Dec 13, 2010 2:50 PM EST reply actions
Look at how Orton has done without McDaniels…
He would be a legend and a leader for the Browns.
***FREE FREEBRADSHAW***
by TheRealSlimShady on Dec 13, 2010 2:50 PM EST reply actions
sorry for the double post
***FREE FREEBRADSHAW***
by TheRealSlimShady on Dec 13, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
You know, I don’t think I want an OC that trades Peyton Hillis away because he thinks Peyton was fooling around. I mean, in and of itself that makes sense- But he traded for Brady freaking Quinn. A pretty boy who will see the field exponentially LESS than Peyton Hillis ever would. With all that extra time Brady DOESN’T spend on the field… You gotta think Josh McDaniels traded one threat away for an even bigger threat…
I jest. I say if Mangini thinks he can work well with McDaniels and McDaniels is willing, go for it. I think he’s the best OC out there right now and we need one. And what’s all this nonsense about if we hire him then we’ll be passing 50 times a game? This year they’re averaging about 3 running plays to about 5 passing plays, which might be a little higher on the passing side of things than what we would like, but even still. The running backs have 1,100+ yards on the season, and our running backs only have about 300 more yards than that.
I think McDaniels would be a good hire and I don’t think that he would let our running game fall by the wayside.
Common what does making trades have to do with being an OC? he drafted a running back in the first round they didn’t need hillis and quinn was qb depth? and who can blame him for trading Cutler and Marshall huge talents with even bigger egos… neither of which have had much success since they left.
You missed my point man. It was a funny.
The running rumor is that McDaniels traded Hillis because Hillis was fooling around with McDaniels’ wife. But he traded for Brady Quinn, who I would imagine is an even bigger pretty boy than Hillis.
So here. Let me see if I can explain. Peyton Hillis (supposedly) fooled around with McD’s wife. McD got pissed and traded him to Cleveland. He traded for Brady Quinn, who I think that ladies in general would find more attractive than Peyton Hillis. So… He traded Hillis for someone who is even more attractive and who is bad enough that he will be on the field even less than Hillis. So if McD’s wife was fooling around with Hillis, you gotta think chances are even higher that she’ll fool around with Brady Quinn.
… It’s a joke.
AND if you want to see my REAL thoughts on McD, read my reply to my joke.
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