Cleveland: The Hottest Place for QB Transactions
by Chris Pokorny on Mar 10, 2010 10:57 PM EST
in General News
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PrintAfter failing to address the quarterback situation during the first few days of free agency, Mike Holmgren and company have been busy the past several days in their search for the starting quarterback of the Cleveland Browns next season.
If you look around the NFL, Cleveland has become the place for quarterback transactions. Based on the names that have been thrown around, it seems like Holmgren is merely looking for a one-year holdover at the position. I initially thought that Brady Quinn might be given a shot at the starting role, but the news of the Browns bringing in former Panthers QB Jake Delhomme for an interview sort of changes that.
There's no way that Quinn would be on the roster, let alone the starter, if Seneca Wallace and Delhomme were also on the roster. With one of the two, you could make the case that they would be a backup. One of them isn't going to be a third stringer though, and if we're exploring options beyond Wallace, then it wouldn't be too surprising to see Quinn follow in the footsteps of Derek Anderson not too long from now.
Speaking of Anderson, most of you have already seen his outlash at Cleveland fans followed by his retraction of sorts. Anderson had to of known all along that he was going to be released, so I don't buy it that he had some accidental emotional reaction in spite of being released. He said what he's wanted to say for a looonng time. If Anderson ever faces the Browns during his career, I hope Rob Ryan is still our defensive coordinator, because our defense is going to unleash hell on him. Anderson gave us some great memories as well as some horrible ones. In the end, he has no one to blame but himself for not being able to reach a 50 percent completion rate.
Anderson is going to visit the Arizona Cardinals and the Seattle Seahawks, according to ESPN. I wouldn't be surprised if either of those teams sign him, especially the Cardinals. Arizona might be intrigued with the thought of Anderson launching the ball around to Larry Fitzgerald, who can make incredible catches (alas Braylon Edwards in 2007) to help an average quarterback look above average.
Rumors have gone around today that Quinn is being shopped by the Browns. Between Delhomme and Quinn, I'd stick with Quinn because the possibility exists that he can still improve with a full season's worth of work. As much as I liked Delhomme for several years in Carolina, ever since his playoff meltdown two seasons ago, he has been awful -- perhaps just as bad, if not worse than Anderson.
What will the Browns inevitably do at quarterback? The possibilities seem endless at this point. Just about the only thing I'd feel secure about saying is that Brett Ratliff will be on the roster come training camp. The search for a holdover quarterback might seem meaningless, but you never know what could happen. There's always a chance that the right guy will have that one good season to put us into contention next season. Let's hope we find him. If not, we've still got Joshua Cribbs and the ground game to fall back on offensively.
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Haha Ratliff is just going around thinking “whew”
ever since [Delhomme]’s playoff meltdown two seasons ago, he has been awful — perhaps just as bad, if not worse than Anderson.
This can’t be possible man.
Probably the only Cleveland Browns fan in all of Sydney, NSW.
The scale is different in the sense that expectations were higher for Delhomme and the Panthers considering their record the season before.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Mar 10, 2010 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
Delhomme completed 55% of his passes and had 8 TD’s with 18 picks.
Anderson completed 52.9% of his passes and had 3 TD’s with 10 picks.
One could make the case that Delhomme had a better chance to succeed, as I mentioned above. Either way, both were awful and that’s why neither of them are with their respective teams anymore.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Mar 10, 2010 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
To create a market for Quinn. Teams do it all the time. I’d be surprised if Delhomme, or any free agent QB, were signed.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 10, 2010 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
Hola.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 10, 2010 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
You’re more worried about defining “to create a market” then wondering how Golanbatrac came back??
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 10, 2010 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
Looking at a second free agent QB let’s teams know that we’re serious about letting Quinn go. The idea is that then, any teams with interest in Quinn or a hole in their roster where the quarterback should be will be more inclined to cut a deal in the near term rather than take a chance that some other team gets him. It also keeps in play any team (Arizona, Seattle) interested in DA.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 10, 2010 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
This….
http://prideofcleveland.blogspot.com/
by Red-Right-88 on Mar 11, 2010 8:12 AM EST up reply actions
I’ll buy that, although I think we’ve pretty much made BQ’s availability an open secret at this point. I like the idea of other teams working out which of our discards they’ll go for. Wow, the QB market really does seem thin these days, doesn’t it? (Oh, and good to see you again, BTW.)
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Mar 11, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Well, this could just be icing on a cake they’re already baking….
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Mar 12, 2010 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
I’m just going to issue a blanket ‘thank you’ and a ‘good to be back’ to cover everyone, lest this turn into the ‘welcome back golan’ thread.
So… thank you, and good to be back.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
So you only got a LeGarrette Blount suspension?
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 12, 2010 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
At least we weren’t stuck with this with Anderson:
On April 23, 2009, the Panthers signed Delhomme to a 5-year extension worth $42.5 million, with a $20 million guarantee, putting him under contract through 2014.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Mar 10, 2010 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
Columbus til I die, Columbus til I die. I know I am, I swear I am, Columbus til I die!
by Andrew Tolliver on Mar 11, 2010 8:57 AM EST up reply actions
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 11, 2010 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
Damn you beat me to it.
The sporting gods hate Cleveland, they give us false hopes, then yank it out from under us like a tablecloth.
by North Coast Flea on Mar 11, 2010 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Oh my god, it’s a mirage……….
The sporting gods hate Cleveland, they give us false hopes, then yank it out from under us like a tablecloth.
by North Coast Flea on Mar 11, 2010 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Not that it matters, but walterfootball thinks that Wallace is going to start until a rookie we draft this year or Troy Smith (don’t see how that could happen anymore) is ready. But this was before the Delhomme thing.
Surprisingly, he said the Wallace trade was good. This guy constantly knocks the Browns so I’m surprised he could find anything positive.
I like Wallace, and wouldn’t be disappointed were he to start in 2010. He’s not a franchise QB by any means, but he’s solid and smart and doesn’t turn the ball over.
We robbed Seattle blind on this one. At worst, we’re giving up what we got in return from Seattle a few years ago for Charlie Frye. Seneca Wallace is a good bit better than Frye.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 10, 2010 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
If it truly is a conditional 2011 7th that at best goes to 6th, then we absolutely ripped them. It’s funny how excited Seahawks fans were to see him go though.
I wonder what the intelligent Seahawks fans think?
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 11, 2010 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
This
Columbus til I die, Columbus til I die. I know I am, I swear I am, Columbus til I die!
by Andrew Tolliver on Mar 11, 2010 8:58 AM EST up reply actions
Thank you. These are interesting reading.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Mar 11, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Alaskabrown
Up here in the NW, we’re pretty sure that the number of intelligent Seahawk fans is equal to the number of confirmed bigfoot sitings.
by Alaskabrown on Mar 12, 2010 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
A lot of that was before hearing how little we'd gotten in return.
Not to speak for everyone, but the consensus at the ‘Hawks blog seemed to be that we weren’t unhappy to see him go but felt that he was worth more than the conditional pick.
It’s funny that you bring up Frye. One of the few things I know about Wallace was that Seattle, I believe Holmgren, specifically mentioned that they traded for Frye so that they could move Wallace to WR. But Frye was so bad that they had to keep Wallace as a #2 QB for that year and have Frye be #3.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Mar 10, 2010 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t know any of this.
I thought Frye looked pretty good in the Raiders game this year (at least for a little while). If there’s ever any doubt that Holmgren’s good with the quarterbacks, you need look no further than Charlie Frye and the amount of polish Holmgren managed to put on that turd. The dude actually looked like he knew what he was doing under center. Amazing!
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 11, 2010 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbusters-polishing-a-turd.html
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 11, 2010 9:48 AM EST up reply actions
I find it odd that you’ve had to use this link more than once in a week on two random occasions.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 11, 2010 9:52 AM EST up reply actions
I must have missed the last one, either way, that’s pretty cool, not that I’m going to run out and do it.
The sporting gods hate Cleveland, they give us false hopes, then yank it out from under us like a tablecloth.
by North Coast Flea on Mar 11, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
This is looking WAY far ahead, but does anyone thing we’re maybe waiting forJake LockerJevan Snead next year?
We better not be thinking about next years draft till next years draft. A LOT can change.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 10, 2010 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
…Wow.
The idea being that if we would’ve said that a year ago.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 11, 2010 7:22 AM EST up reply actions
I recently read something about Holmgren’s search for a QB in Seattle before finding Hasselbeck. He brought in a handful of veterans to see if he could catch lightening in a bottle and wait until a young QB would bloom.
Think of Gruden (Holmgren disciple) in Tampa stock-piling QBs.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
Hmmm interesting. So he just brought in the veterans and then drafted Hasselbeck?
I think it’s interesting to note that Holgren’s never drafted a QB in the first round.
he brought hasselbeck from the packers bench in a trade. Not unlike the seneca wallace deal. Though I don’t think wallace has that kind of upside. Never know.
I kinda like the “shotgun” approach. Bring in 2 or 3 guys and see who sticks.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
Only problem is that Holmgren said there would be no QB competition.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
Yes, I’ve been puzzling over what Holmgren meant by that ever since we started all of this QB action. Maybe he expects quick decisive action to narrow the field, instead of last year’s approach?
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Mar 11, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Yup. He dug so deep as to bring in Ryan Leaf if I remember right.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 11, 2010 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
Look on the bright side… The hand wringing and teeth gnashing at the PD between now and whenever they finally get their guy should be entertaining!
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 11, 2010 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
Sucks that he won his first two games as a Charger, played well then… collapsed. That’s like ultimate torture for a fan base.
But then they got LT so all was well.
And Brees in the same draft. That had to be one of the best drafts ever — a HOF RB and a perennial pro bowl QB (who they then let go in favor of an arguably better QB).
by TheDriveStillHurts on Mar 11, 2010 1:27 AM EST up reply actions
Trent Dilfer and Jon Kitna got the most snaps during that pre-Hasselbeck stretch under Holmgren.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Mar 11, 2010 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
Am I the only one who thinks Jake Delhomme looks like Wilson from the House TV series?
Probably the only Cleveland Browns fan in all of Sydney, NSW.
I actually feel bad for Delhomme in that picture a little bit. I know… “no crying in sports”, but I sort of felt bad for the guy when I saw the clip of him talking.
lol I thought that pic was DA at first….fitting, though…isn’t it.
by johnnyphoenix on Mar 11, 2010 12:23 AM EST up reply actions
his pic would be him giving the middle finger
by Kimble_79 on Mar 11, 2010 12:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That’s like saying “I’d rather have Quinn than a bag of balls, two cartons of Marlboros and a flaming bag of dog shit.”
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
I’ll take the two cartons of Marlboros for Quinn, y can keep the rest.
The sporting gods hate Cleveland, they give us false hopes, then yank it out from under us like a tablecloth.
by North Coast Flea on Mar 11, 2010 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
I traded a van for a carton of Marlboros once. [true story]
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
Wow, scammed ’em huh?
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 11, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
I have a ‘92 probe that won’t even go for that. It refuses to idle in neutral, has relays clicking behind my gauge cluster, rockers are completely gone, electric seatbelts have shorted out, horn fell off, and the tailpipe is off.
It’s a screaming death trap. I bought it for $350 haha
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 11, 2010 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
HAHA I haven’t seen a Probe in ages.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 11, 2010 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
Not since the aliens?
I DON'T CONDONE INCEST. All I did was ask a question.
by North Coast Flea on Mar 15, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
A buddy and me traded a Van for a ride from Green River, Utah to Las Vegas.
Funny thing was, it wasn’t our van.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 11, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
traded her straight up.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
by jaws. on Mar 11, 2010 5:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
nice
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 11, 2010 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
Sad thing is, mine isn’t a joke.
We traded that POS to hitch a ride.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 11, 2010 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
The JD thing is a red herring. We are going to draft Tim Tebow and run the A-11 high school offense with Tebow, Wallace and Cribbs all in at the same time. It can’t fail. Mangini gets his versatility with guys playing multiple positions, and Holmgren gets to have three QBs on the field at the same time!
by rebuilding year on Mar 11, 2010 9:40 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
It really is too bad the A-11 is illegal everywhere now.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I didn’t like how it basically subverted the eligible/ineligible numbers rule by using a blatant loophole. I like different permutations of the spread as much as the next guy, but the A-11 strikes me as contrary to the spirit of the game.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
It was just fun for HS kids. I could see that being entertaining. It wasn’t like it was happening in the NFL or even D-1 college.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
The question is who does head coach Eric Mangini want? He is the head coach for the forseeable future. He was never at odds with Brady Quinn, remember that.
Brady Quinn sticking around on the roster, with only a minimal chance at starting, and minimal chance is big with these potentiators, do you think for even a second we´re not whittling away at suckering Browns fans for the umpteenth time. Follow through Mr. Holmgren.
For the sake of all that is British, stop making sense Mooncamping! Your destroying the very fabric of time and space as we know it!!!
by BrownDawg1409 on Mar 11, 2010 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
German.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 11, 2010 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
I like him more now.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 11, 2010 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, and who fought the Germans? Many people, but also the British.
by BrownDawg1409 on Mar 11, 2010 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
Us Germans need to stick together. I have Moon’s back now.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 11, 2010 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
Except on the commonly outrageous things he says.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 11, 2010 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
Which is pretty much the rest of the time, huh?
by BrownDawg1409 on Mar 11, 2010 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
More like most of the time.
I got his back on the streets. haha
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 11, 2010 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
He’s a Limey?? That changes everything.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 11, 2010 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
He’s not just any Limey…he’s….
Limey Man! He’s here to spout non-sense and drink cups of tea! And he’s all out of tea!
by BrownDawg1409 on Mar 11, 2010 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
OMG HAHA
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 12, 2010 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
If that was an intentional Duke Nukem reference, it was brilliant.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 12, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
I think its officially been canceled, and now the developer and publisher are involved in a court case to determine who gets the rights to the title and character.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 12, 2010 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
As for the long-coming Duke Nukem Forever, [Scott] Miller stressed that “we’ve never said that Duke Nukem Forever has ceased development,” explaining “yes, we released the internal team, but that doesn’t correlate to the demise of the project.” – , 26 Dec 2009, http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/61747
DNF: The joke that keeps on giving!
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Mar 12, 2010 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
I stand corrected! though there does seem to be some legal stuff to sort through, such as the claim that take 2 is trying to pressure the original owner to sell the rights to the IP by delaying the game.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 12, 2010 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
You’re right, it is pretty murky. I’m just amused by Miller still saying after all this, “No really, we’re working on it right now! We fired all the developers, but we’re not quitting or anything!”
I have an unholy interest in projects lost to infinite development.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Mar 12, 2010 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
DNF, what an awefully good name for the game, as in did not finish.
I DON'T CONDONE INCEST. All I did was ask a question.
by North Coast Flea on Mar 15, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I´m German American. The American consisting off Sottish descent, but with a strong Irish component.
by mooncamping on Mar 12, 2010 9:53 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I, for one, wil miss the recurring speculation.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 12, 2010 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
Moon is vast and contains multitudes.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Mar 12, 2010 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
My pleasure. I actually think it applies pretty well, but then I’m a mooncamping fan….
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Mar 12, 2010 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
Breakin 3: The Reckoning
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 12, 2010 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
I actually have the authors collected short works next to my bed.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
H.G. Wells
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 12, 2010 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
The American consisting off Sottish descent
?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
this puzzled me as well, but i’m not about to question moon.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 12, 2010 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
I think he means that one of his parents was an American citizen.
I DON'T CONDONE INCEST. All I did was ask a question.
by North Coast Flea on Mar 15, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Moon we have similar ethnicities, but I’m part mexican/spanish too.
I DON'T CONDONE INCEST. All I did was ask a question.
by North Coast Flea on Mar 15, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure what the market for Jake will be, but isn’t it possible that Holmgren would bring in an old vet at QB to guide Brady? Jake might suck, but he would be a better mentor than Anderson. And what other QB is out there that could fill a mentorship role better than Jake?
Delhomme had a terrible year WITH..
- DeAngelo Williams + John Stewart in the backfield
- Steve Smith at wideout
How is he going to improve at Cleveland?
Draft a rookie QB prospect for the future and give Quinn another year to see what you have in him.
by Splouty on Mar 11, 2010 11:55 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
trade quinn to kc i bet he would to reunite with weis. please holmgren save us from more qb trouble. next thing we know by training he will have traded for his old buddy in seattle-matt hasselbeck
I like the idea of sending Quinn to KC. I’d love to see him reunited with another old buddy, Shaun Smith.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 11, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Heh.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 11, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
Please not another QB who cries , their ain’t no cryin’ in football . GHEEEEZ , no wonder I’m salty .
Bad day for former Browns: Gerard Warren and Andra Davis were both just released.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
Given what Holmgren said about QBs needing n starts to show that they get it and not wanting a QB competition, I really thought he was leaning towards giving Quinn another shot. If the Delhomme thing is just to get somebody to fill the void for a year or two, then why not just stick with Quinn? I would think that would cost less and at least he’s had a little bit of time working with (or at least near) our receivers.
I still fell as though Quinn will be the starter come September. My reasoning is as follows:
1) It can be easily supported by recent events that Holmgren doesn’t believe Quinn is the clear-cut choice. With the Delhome interview, we might be able to draw the conclusion that he is inspecting every possible option to potentially upgrade the QB position.
2) I don’t believe we’ll be drafting a QB. At the moment, the only worth candidate I would think the Browns would seriously consider drafting (with intentions on making them the starter). I’ve said this before, but BK19’s article has thorougly convinced me to avoid trying to get mid-late round QB’s to play like starters.
But it appears that the likeliest scenario is that the Rams will opt to take Sam Bradford. If the Browns wanted to trade up to that spot, they would have to give up a lot since StL would most likely lose out on a chance to fall back on one of the top DT’s of the draft. Drafting Clausen might be a possiblity, but not only would he probably be gone by the time we pick at seven, it would also cost quite a bit to trade up. For a team that’s trying to rebuild, we shouldn’t be given up picks for one guy.
3) For that same reason, I don’t think we’ll be trading for a proven QB either. The Eagles are reportedly asking for a first rounder for McNabb and Kolb. Kolb’s even more unproven than Quinn (or at least that’s how I feel) and McNabb only has one year left on his contract. I’m not sure what would happen after that. That’s definetly not first round material (unless you’re the Raiders). Hasselbeck might throw a monkey wrench into things, but if the Seahawks are able to pick up Clausen, I belive he’ll be retained. And Troy Smith? Well…let’s just say I think the fact that they’re talking to Delhome before saying/doing anything about Smith tells you what they think about him.
4) Trading/releasing Quinn would depend entirely on how the draft goes. If, in the likely hood, that we don’t get a top rated QB, than Quinn would be our best option. If we were able to somehow get our guy, that’s when I believe we’d move Quinn for a future draft pick, or another player that became expendable because a team drafted younger talent to replace him.
Kolb’s even more unproven than Quinn (or at least that’s how I feel)
Yeah but the question is what’s been proven? All Quinn has proven, IMO, is that he can’t succeed despite having a solid grasp of the offense (and even a solid running game towards the end).
Brady Quinn will never be a good quarterback for the Browns.
Our GM Tom Heckert probably knows more about Kevin Kolb’s abilities than anyone outside of the Philly organization right now, so if he thinks Kolb will be a good starting QB than I’m willing to believe him and take that risk.
He’s right that Kolb hasn’t proven anything, but that’s much better than Quinn who’s proven that he isn’t very good. And Kolb has certainly proven more than anyone we’re going to find in the draft.
by Buckeye Brad on Mar 12, 2010 8:30 AM EST up reply actions
No way the Eagles trade Kolb
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 12, 2010 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
I would argue that Quinn can still succeed. I still remember back in 08 when he did just fine when he had:
a) An offensive coordinator who actually knew what he was doing (I miss Chud…)
b) Offensive weapons, namely K2.
by BrownDawg1409 on Mar 12, 2010 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
He played well the entire time before he injured the most important finger used in throwing a football.
Obviously it is a very small sample size, but there’s no need to be a hater where it isn’t necessary. He sucked enough in 09, you can just point to that.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
he had weapons, but Chud wasn’t that great.
Chud at least thought he knew what he was doing, but it was apparent that the league was blindsided that 07 season and by 08 had broke down the film and gamplanned against chud. Chud didn’t have the answers, couldn’t adjust.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
Well, thursday came and went. No news concerning Jake Delhomme’s visit. I think that’s good news.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
I don’t know why they invited Delhomme. If they do want to trade Brady Quinn they would be smart to get the trade done before they add any other quarterbacks.
If the Browns added a QB that people felt would start (McNabb, Troy Smith, Kolb, whoever) It would make them look more desperate to deal Quinn. His value would go down, right?
yes
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 12, 2010 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
Not necessarily. It isn’t unusual for a team to carry more than three quarterbacks during the offseason (especially a team with a big question mark at the position as we have). And with DA gone, we don’t have a single QB contract that’s prohibitively expensive (Quinn’s is all incentive based, Wallace is paid like a #2 and Ratliff a #3).
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 12, 2010 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
Yes
Wih a 4th QB and the pushing of a Quinn trade brings his value down.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 12, 2010 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
I really don’t think it does. We wouldn’t need to deal Quinn in that situation, at least not right away. And there would be one less QB on the market for other teams to look at.
If we only want 3 QBs on the final roster, we could easily cut Ratliff.
I think it would be smarter to make sure we have our guy before we dealt Quinn.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
If a likely starter were to be added and based on the fact that the Browns have been shopping Quinn before that addition, his value would go down.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 12, 2010 1:13 AM EST up reply actions
I have to agree with BY. The Browns have 2nd and 3rd guys in Wallace and Ratliff. If they added a guy who was almost certainly a #1 (like McNabb or Kolb just for example) then it is safe to assume Quinn has to go this offseason.
If other teams see that there is no longer a possibility that we keep Quinn past draft day, they will probably want to surrender less for him.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
Interested Team "Well, since you don’t want him anymore, I’ll give you a 4th round pick for Quinn".
Holmgren "But there’s no cap this year".
dial toneIf you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 12, 2010 8:40 AM EST up reply actions
You completely missed the point. The point: sans cap, we don’t have to move any one.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
Ah ok. I see what you’re saying. But the Browns are still obviously trying to move Quinn.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 12, 2010 9:22 AM EST up reply actions
Not only that, but Quinn’s contract pays him like a backup if he is a backup. There is no financial need to move him at all, which was not the case with DA’s contract.
With DA everyone knew he would be released before his bonus, so no one wanted to trade for him and his ridiculous contract before then.
With Quinn if we showed that we were willing to stash him away for a long time, someone might make a move. Especially with the draft coming up. Especially if someone missed out on their guy in the draft.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
What QB would look very good right now?
Pass blocking was nowhere near as good as run blocking.
Who would he throw to- right now our best WR is Furrey.
OC- not exactly great is he.
You put Kolb here under those conditions and he would not look very good. Put anyone here and how good would they look?
You can claim better then anyone we have now but prove it.
Pass blocking was only bad on the right side of the line which we are addressing
I would argue MoMass is our best WR currently (He and Robiskie should develop more this year)
OC is being “mentored” by Gil Haskill which should help
Last year I would agree with you, but I think this year will be much better.
Our best WR is Furrey? What team were you watching last year?
by Buckeye Brad on Mar 12, 2010 9:19 AM EST up reply actions
Old Lions’ tapes?
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 12, 2010 9:23 AM EST up reply actions
Furrey isn’t our best receiver but we still have arguably the worst group of WRs.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 12, 2010 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
Brady Quinn
First let me state that I understand everyones frustration with him as our QB. In my opinion, the one of hte main reasons for his lack of development is our coaching staff, no one has ever given this kid the reins and said we have your back. He has been battling his whole career, his confidence was never given a chance to grow and thus his skill set has never been able to shine.
Now, befeore you jump all over me, I notice his deficiencies just like anyone else, BUT if we really take a good hard look at our team this year there are deficiencies at nearly ever positional group. We are not a playoff team, a solid QB will not put us in the playoffs this year. In saying, all I want to see is the team back Quinn for this year, find out if this kid can develop into something great and if not, well we at least gave a 1st round pick the opportunity and chance to prove himself.
And that is my rant for the day, have at it haha
That was my feeling coming into the offseason, but now, with Holmgren in the building, I’m good with whatever he decides at the position (though I reserve the right to shit a brick if we drop our first rounder this year on QB).
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 12, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah. Nothing against Bradford, I just think we can make better use of the picks it would take to move up to get him.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 12, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Yea, I do not want to trade up for him, and don’t think it is likely he will be there at 7. In the hypothetical where he is there at 7, I think we take him unless Berry or Suh is also still available.
I’m not a fan of trading up in pursuit of bradford. I think Bradford could be a good qb in this league, but probably not great. He is a value for the team drafting up high where he falls, but not worth trading up for.
Of course I just want Eric Berry. I feel like he is an elite player who begins to fill our most pressing need (even more pressing than qb, what?) our fantastically porous secondary.
Haden is a much worse consolation prize than I’d orginally thought because the CB class is so deep. If we got berry with our first pick, and thus Haden falls down to the next team that wants a CB, we have a legitimate chance to get Kyle Wilson, Kareem Jackson, or Devin McCourty with our second pick.
All are great options but I love Kareem Jackson. He’s fast, has fluid hips, he is well rounded in coverage and against the run, and most importantly he played for Nick Saban and Kirby Smart. This should make a smooth transition to the NFL because he already is adept at pattern reading.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
I thought corner wasn’t that deep this year? There doesn’t seem to be many 1st round CB prospects and the majority of successful corners in the league are selected in the 1st.
first 2 rounds more like. there are a fair amount of first round bust CBs. there are also a lot of very solid CBs that are successful that come in the 2nd round:
2007: Eric Wright
2006: Richard Marshall and Cedric Griffin
2005: Corey Webster
2004: Shawntae Spencer
2003: Peanut tillman
There are very solid CBs taken in the 2nd every year. this is one of the deeper CB drafts and although there are not a ton of first round talents, there are a lot that are projected in the 2nd and third rounds, guys who can possibly start in the league right away.
It just doesn’t seem like it b/c the draft is deep in a lot of positions, not just CB.
It’s not that cb isn’t deep. It’s just some other position groups are deeper than usual. There are more first round OTs and DTs this year than most, and several other positions are relatively deep too.
There are about 4 corners who will be gone by the middle of the second who are probably legitimate fringe first round talents, but they fall out of circumstance. Especially if Haden falls into the teens. Wilson, McCourty, Kareem Jackson are all nice players, and Patrick Robinson should go in the second as well.
The class is top heavy though, if you miss out on one of those first group of guys, you are left in the lurch a little bit.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
I like about 3 CBs in this draft to become either #1s or #2s in the NFL.
There are a bunch of guys better than Bmac. There are a lot of S’s better than Furrey.
There are about 10 guys I would be ok with drafting as DEs.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Just curious, but who are those guys? I would like to hear your opinion
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 12, 2010 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
Haden, Wilson, Jackson.
CBs that can be better than Bmac:
Patrick Robinson
Perrish Cox
Chris Cook (although he is a totally different player)
Arenas
Syd’Quan
Ghee
Lindley
Donnovan Warren
Safeties:
Pretty much everyone because Furrey is not a safety. But…
Berry
Mays
Thomas
Allen
Chad Jones (provided he is actually playing)
Asante
Reshad Jones
Myron Rolle
Kurt Coleman
Major Wright
DEs:
Dunlap
Wooton
G. McCoy
Suh (if you don’t consider him a NT for us)
Price
Odrick
Lamaar Houston
Alualu
Dan Williams could probably play DE for us
Arthur Jones
Michael Neal
Yes, I know some of those guys are considered 3-techs or 1-gappers, but I don’t care. I would love to see us go to some more hybrid 1- and 2-gapping, which is why I would be fine with getting them on the team.
I’m not saying these are guys we should draft based on where they are projected to go, these are guys who I think could help our team.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Corner is VERY deep this year.
1st round Prospects: Haden, Kyle Wilson
2nd round prospects: Devin McCourty, Perrish Cox, Pat Robinson, Kareem Jackson, Dominique Franks, Amari Spievy
3rd round: Donovan Warren, Brandon Ghee, Javier Arenas, Chris Cook, Akwasi Owusu-Ansah
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 12, 2010 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
I look at those names and I see 4-5 guys that will eventually be #1s (Wilson, Haden, McCourty, Robinson, Warren)
I also see 5 eventual #2s (Cox, Jackson, Franks Speivey Arenas Ansah)
those are 10 guys in 3 rounds who would make an impact on our team.
I think its more like Haden, Wilson, Jackson, McCourty as the best group.
Cox, Robinson etc. are a half step below at least.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
I actually really like Cox (3rd best IMO) and I think Robinson can be really good too.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 13, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
You like Cox??
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 13, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Damn.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 13, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
Complete ownage.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 13, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
No, he really likes cox.
I DON'T CONDONE INCEST. All I did was ask a question.
by North Coast Flea on Mar 15, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I really think Warren won’t succeed until he switches to FS.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 13, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
I’m actually on the fence with Berry/Haden. I think Haden has tremendous upside having only played as a DB for a couple of years (he arrived at Florida as a QB and switched positions when he realized he wasn’t going to pass Tebow and his Heisman on the depth chart). He also seems to fit with what the type of players we’ve been acquiring — intelligent, self motivated and high-character. Berry is awesome and an absolute no brainer if he’s there at 7, but every time I watch his highlight reel, I see him lead with his head. If he doesn’t correct that, he’s going to be as good to us as another uber talented no-brainer, Courtney Brown, was. Berry’s technique scares me a little.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
I’m with you 100% on this one. I’ve stated in other posts that QB’s confidence is key. I personally think he was “thinking too much” about every throw b/c he was afraid of getting pulled from the game. Kind of the same thing as in golf, if you overthink your shot, it usually is off. I would like to see the Browns tell the kid, we got your back and see what he’s got. I still think he has potential to be a good QB in the league. I think we owe it to ourselves for what we spent on him to give him that chance w/out having to look over his shoulder for every mistake. You learn by making mistakes.
that excuse only works for the first 3 games. after he was named the starter again, it was clear DA wasn’t coming back in. what’s his excuse for those games?
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 12, 2010 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
a horrible OC and I still think that excuse applies for the entire season. A QB will make mistakes. In my opinion, the kid is still a rookie. Matt Ryan was a oddity with his rookie season, but notice last season he had some growing pains. Sanchez was adequate, but went through some rough times in the season as well. Both of those examples had better surrounding staff/players than Brady.
you can’t say he was nervously looking over his shoulder if there was no one back there to look at. I also think Daboll improved at the end of the year, and i would cite his lack of passing plays as an example. do you really think the browns would want the run/pass ratio in an ideal world? they didn’t throw the ball because quinn couldn’t do it.
In my opinion, the kid is still a rookie.no, he isn’t. this will be his 4th season in the league. he has already dealt with many of the hurdles that rookies deal with, such as the new practice schedule and adjusting to the life of a pro football player. quinn has had the last 3 years to learn how to be a pro and focus on football. Was aaron rogers a rookie in your opinion the first year he started? or did sitting for 2-3 years help him?
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 12, 2010 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
sorry fellas I disagree with you on this one. You learn by playing the game, not sitting on the bench or living the life of an nfl football player. He’s played like what 12 or so games. Even Holgmren said that you need like 3yrs with the same offense (starting all 3yrs, not just riding the pine) to be fully evaluated. That said though, I don’t see him everyday in practice and on film like the Brownies do. So I’m good with whatever Holmgren decides is best. Thats just my opinion from the outside looking in. I’m not a fan of Notre Dame and not a fan of him being the town hearthrob or hero, I’m speaking from a professional standpoint only.
Not everyone gets a chance to play enough games to be fully evaluated though. That’s why it takes the coaching staff and personnel department’s evaluation to determine if that player has the skills to allow for that kind of opportunity.
Most of us are saying that Holmgren has enough cred as a QB evaluator that if he says that Quinn doesn’t deserve that full chance, then so be it.
Then why haven’t we given Ratliff three seasons worth of starts? I think we cut Spurgeon Wynn to early as well.
Brady Quinn will never be a good quarterback for the Browns.
Right, but my point is credentials only get you so far. If Holmgren feels he’s seen enough, then by all means that’s fine.
I’m no scout, but I’ve seen Quinn whiff on too many throws to blame an OC or a system or anything other than the fact that he hasn’t been an accurate passer. We cannot afford to give every QB a “fair” shot.
Brady Quinn will never be a good quarterback for the Browns.
I agree with that. I’m good with whatever we decide to pursue on QB’s. If anyone is a good judge of QB talent, its Holmgren. I just think he has an abundance of things still to learn and that he will make a good QB in this league. Whether that be with the Browns or another team, most likely the latter of the two it seems right now.
I’m not trying to say we can fully evaluate quinn at this point, I’m saying we should in no way consider him a rookie.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 12, 2010 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
You can make all the excuses you want for Quinn, but the bottom line is that he had his chances and he hasn’t performed. If the Browns can find someone who they think is better then there is no reason to waste another season with him at QB just so they can know for sure that he sucks.
by Buckeye Brad on Mar 12, 2010 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
how can you say that with such certainty, have you seen him practice and watched films on him? You don’t know that and neither does anybody else. 12 games is not enough to evaluate a player. With the coaching carousel we have around here and different looks on offense and no surrounding talent, its just not realistic to say that yet with any certainty
No, but the coaches have seen him practice and watched film of him, and if they had confidence in him they would have named him the starter going in to the season. That’s why Mangini dragged out the QB battle for so long last year . . . because he didn’t have confidence in either Quinn or Anderson. I think that says all we need to know — if Quinn could barely beat out Derek Anderson then he’s not that good of a QB. Simple as that.
by Buckeye Brad on Mar 12, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
I will go with you on that now…I don’t think Mangini knew how to handle QB’s well…aka Favre comes to mind…so I would argue that point for last year, however with the new FO in place I will support whatever they decide to do.
if holmgren dumps the guy and decides that 12 games is enough to evaluate him, then 12 games is enough to evaluate him. if the staff feels he can’t do it, why should we care.
and i get tired of this whole thing about him not being given the QB job and told he didn’t need to look over his shoulder. that’s bullshit. its professional football, millions of dollars ride on wins and losses. the team isn’t there to pamper his low self confidence, its there to win. go out and win games, play great, and everything else takes care of itself.
just so they can know for sure that he sucks.
Gee, hard to tell where you come down on this matter.
It looks now like they are going a different direction than Quinn.
by Western Reserve on Mar 12, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
You can’t have too many GOOD QBs.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I’ve stated in other posts that QB’s confidence is key. I personally think he was "thinking too much" about every throw b/c he was afraid of getting pulled from the game.
Yes, Brady Quinn should be given another chance because he was “afraid of getting pulled from the game.” No other QB has excelled with another guy looking over their shoulder?? This is the NFL, there are always guys looking over your shoulder to come in. There are countless examples of QB’s who excelled in the NFL when another QB was waiting on the bench to come in. Have you ever heard of Drew Brees? Go do some research on his 2005 season with the Chargers. There are a ton of other examples.
If Brady Quinn’s excuse is that he was afraid of Derek freaking Anderson then he has no excuse. There may be other reasons we shouldn’t give up on BQ yet, but this one is hogwash.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Mar 12, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Right. I’m tired of hearing that excuse. If Quinn can’t play because he’s worried about his backup then he doesn’t have the mental toughness to make it in the NFL. That’s football — there will always be competition. You either perform or you lose your job to someone else. If you can’t handle it then you shouldn’t be playing in the league.
by Buckeye Brad on Mar 12, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I’ve been beating this drum since he was pulled in week 3. everyone wanted to say “of course he played poorly, the coaches obviously didn’t have confidence in him.”
I don’t care. he’s an nfl quarterback, if he can’t handle the pressure of havin derek anderson on the bench, how would he handle a playoff game?
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 12, 2010 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
Not only that, but it isn’t like Quinn was ‘off and on’ in the games he played in. He was downright inept for the majority of the time. Maybe if he had shown flashes of something I would be willing to buy this development theory, but I can’t after watching him play terribly.
Agreed. He’s been disappointing throughout. If BQ really can’t perform without a complete vote of confidence and no challenge at all from another QB on the roster, then he’ll never prosper in this league. Calling him temporarily hampered because of a fear of getting pulled or because he’s “still new” is getting harder to get behind every day.
I do hope BQ is a success this year and will try to Trust in Holmgren if he goes that way, but it seems like this plane is about out of runway.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Mar 12, 2010 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
competition is one thing, but to me it seemed like the coaching staff never gave him their full support. That doesn’t stand for anything? That doesn’t make a difference?
Again, he is not the first guy to be in that situation. There are tons of examples of this. It is not an excuse that you don’t think the coaching staff liked you enough. Again, think of Drew Brees. Guy had a Pro Bowl year right after the Chargers drafted his replacement. The front office had basically given up on him, and it was only because Rivers held out that Brees started.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Mar 12, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
wasn’t an injury falling into that equation with his shoulder. I realize thats just one example of what your saying though
No, no. Two completely different things. Brees’ shoulder injury happened later, and that’s why the Chargers decided not to resign him and go with their then third-year QB in Rivers. However, well before the injury, the San Diego front office had apparently given up on him and decided to draft a QB with their very early first round pick in 2004.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Mar 12, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
WR
Someone said that Holmgren wanted to move Wallace to WR…isn’t it possible that he still wants to move him to WR?? We really don’t have any proven receivers.