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Bradford and McCoy were at or above average, Clausen and Tebow were below average, for quartebacks.

They give past results too, and it pretty much debunked my understanding that the wonderlic test was something that the scouts and GM's think highly of...at least with Dan Marino getting a 15 I hoped they don't.

4 months ago Tiny OSUMoneyball 59 comments 0 recs  | 

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I was actually checking out Wonderlic scores for QBs yesterday and found absolutely no correlation to anything at all.

by Roger Dorn on Mar 11, 2010 9:10 AM EST reply actions  

I noticed that as well. I guess the people I heard talk about it on the radio had no idea what they were talking about.

by OSUMoneyball on Mar 11, 2010 9:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Yea. My first clue was Dan Marino 15, Ryan Leaf 27, Peyton Manning 28, Eli Manning 38, Alex Smith 40.

by Roger Dorn on Mar 11, 2010 9:41 AM EST up reply actions  

wow, yeah that really does show no significance at all. with inconsistency like that wonder why they even use it?

by Kimble_79 on Mar 11, 2010 9:56 AM EST up reply actions  

The scores have some meaning and reflect potential – it certainly looks like correlation. Simple question: if all else is equal between two QBs except Wonderlic, who would you select?

I take all of these with a grain of salt on both sides. Peyton was a lock down 1st pick. He didn’t need to perform well on the test. Marino? You’re talking 25 years ago. Was Princeton Review in business? Maybe, but test prep was hardly a big deal. But Tebow has a number of question marks- and a poor Wonderlic does not help (though his score is not awful).

Tebow is definite an athlete, but not someone who should be leading a professional offense.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin

by Spidey on Mar 11, 2010 10:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

actually, marino didn’t finish the test from what I have read so that might not be accurate.

In statistics you will always have outliers, but you should not judge based on outliers.

by bross09 on Mar 11, 2010 11:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I gave a small sampling, but the results were all over the place.

by Roger Dorn on Mar 11, 2010 11:28 PM EST up reply actions  

well…you need a large sampling…look below at what I said. in statistics there are always outliers. the larger the amount of data looked at, the more accurate it is.

by bross09 on Mar 11, 2010 11:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I am aware. I looked at a large sampling, and only provided a small sampling. If you’d really like, I will run a regression analysis when I get the chance.

by Roger Dorn on Mar 11, 2010 11:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Not surprising, because you’re ability to solve a word logic puzzle is a lot different from “muscle intelligence” that an athlete or dancer has. At what point on these tests is your 3d spatial awareness proven? A lot of our traditional definitions of intelligence – good score on your SAT? Intelligent! – are poised to fall.

by joeee on Mar 12, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I want to laugh at that, but I just can’t. God forgive me please

by Kimble_79 on Mar 11, 2010 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Even God appreciates a sense of humor.

by emily522 on Mar 11, 2010 10:37 PM EST up reply actions  

for some reason Bruce Almighty just popped in my head…LOL

by Kimble_79 on Mar 12, 2010 8:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Even Almighty

They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best

About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback

by Villeslgr on Mar 12, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Was terrible.

"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."

by SpecialBrownie on Mar 12, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I liked that movie.

Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Mar 12, 2010 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s a rental. I was forced to see it in theaters/waste money.

by emily522 on Mar 12, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

didn’t watch it, just saw bruce almighty and even up above and said even almighty

They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best

About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback

by Villeslgr on Mar 12, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Bruce Almighty was good.

I thought you mis – typed Evan Almighty. Which was terrible.

"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."

by SpecialBrownie on Mar 12, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Bruce was okay. nothing special but not bad. evan was horrible…no offense steve carell. you are still hilarious.

by bross09 on Mar 12, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

agree, bad movie, but love Steve Carell. I’m a big fan of the office

by Kimble_79 on Mar 12, 2010 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

yep…i am catching up on hulu right now.

by bross09 on Mar 12, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Last night’s episode was hilarious. And the baby episode was cute and funny.

by emily522 on Mar 12, 2010 5:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn’t like the baby episode. Loved seeing Todd Packer back on Thursday night’s episode.

by Roger Dorn on Mar 13, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Aw, I liked the baby episode. To each his own.

Thursday’s was great though… “Tweedledee and Tweedle dumb ass have been on maternity leave. Tweedle dumb ass is back, and now we have a problem.”

by emily522 on Mar 13, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

darn. I am not that far. I am only on the episode where there is the whole boss confusion.

by bross09 on Mar 13, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

“That is all I care about. More. Megadesk.”

by emily522 on Mar 13, 2010 6:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I saw the baby episode yesterday and liked it a lot. Seemed very offbeat, which is where the Office is at its best. I thought the St. Patrick’s Day episode was weak.

by gahnki on Mar 13, 2010 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes! Someone else who likes the Office on here!

by emily522 on Mar 12, 2010 5:36 PM EST up reply actions  

hey how do you get the grey quote bar…just put quotes around what you want in the box?

by Kimble_79 on Mar 11, 2010 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

nevermind, I found it

by Kimble_79 on Mar 11, 2010 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

This made me laugh.

Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Mar 11, 2010 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

interesting that Urban Meyer was able to have great success with a very high wonderlic QB (Alex Smith) and a relatively lower scoring one (Tebow). Damn good coach that man.

"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."

by jaws. on Mar 11, 2010 5:39 PM EST reply actions  

He’s a good coach, but not because of his success with a range of Wonderlic Scores.

by gahnki on Mar 11, 2010 9:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Clausen was at average.

Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.

by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 11, 2010 9:47 PM EST reply actions  

Heaven forbid the ND QB goes under average huh?

"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."

by SpecialBrownie on Mar 11, 2010 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

the problem with looking at the wonderlic score the way people are is a couple things:

a) wonderlic is just one piece in the process. it is like a broad jump or high jump or a 3 cone drill. it is just a piece in the prospect puzzle

b) many are taking isolated statistics and saying they don’t matter at all and have no merit. Example: one person jumps out of a plane without a parachute and lives (it happens)…One person jumps out with a parachute and dies. now by these isolated outliers, the stats lead you to believe that parachutes are unsafe when it is quite the opposite.

Here are some facts I found out about the wonderlic:

-The average score for a QB is 24

-The average score for QBs who are slated to start in 2010 (or at least mostly guaranteed) is 28.5

-The average score for QBs who were voted into the pro bowl (whether starter or reserve) is 29.5

-The average score for recent super bowl winning QBs is about 30.2

Now what this shows us is a holistic approach at the wonderlic and not picking it apart test by test. What this shows is that in trends, a QB with a higher wonderlic may be more likely to succeed, whereas someone with a lower score is less likely. now this is just one piece of the puzzle that does often matter, but also often does not. You cannot judge a prospect just on this but also in a holistic approach. when you here a guy like bradford has great pocket presence and awareness AND he scores a 36, then it does solidify him a bit. When tebow has questions about reading the defense and scores below average, then it obviously puts more questions into scouts’ heads.

and people like to use dan marino as an example of how it fails, but then ignore the 15 DA got, the 12 Kordell stewart got, the 10 Jeff George got, and the 17 JP losman got.

What the numbers do show is that guys with higher wonderlics more often than not are more successful. that is not a rule though obviously, because nothing in statistics is completely absolute and there are often signficant amounts of outliers. what the numbers do show is contrary to popular belief, the wonderlic has merit.

by bross09 on Mar 11, 2010 11:33 PM EST reply actions  

by the way: just to get more stats about Pro Bowl QB wonderlics. 2009 Pro bowl (2008 season) the starters averaged 29 on the wonderlic.

2007 season. 28.2 (and that includes DA..without him, 29.9)

2006…29.7

Now even though there are definitely outliers, just about every year, the pro bowl QBs have at least an average score of 4 points more than the average QB.

by bross09 on Mar 11, 2010 11:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Of course DA would lower the average.

by emily522 on Mar 12, 2010 12:00 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah…

still, the startling fact is that although many might not like the wonderlic and there WILL be outliers, it is a ueful tool for evaluating, but like I said, it is only one piece of the puzzle…just like you shouldn’t overvalue 40 time.

by bross09 on Mar 12, 2010 12:05 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah, I can picture him doodling a sketch during the testing time

by Kimble_79 on Mar 12, 2010 8:19 AM EST up reply actions  

I put WAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYY more value in a 3 cone drill than a wonderlic

Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.

by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 12, 2010 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

but they truly both have merit. for a RB, yes the 3 cone drill is much more correlated to success.

however, for the quarterback position, not only is the 3 cone drill not that vital, but statistics show that the wonderlic does have merit.

by bross09 on Mar 13, 2010 2:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Statistics show it has minimal merit. As long as they don’t bomb the wonderlic, I think its a non-factor.

Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.

by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 13, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

for an isolated number, yes it has minimal merit. it is not an infallible tool just like the 40 yard dash isn’t. it is just one piece in the prospect puzzle.

although you may deny it, there is a GENERAL statistical correlation between success as a QB and wonderlic scores. yes dan marino got a 15 and alex smith got a 40, but there are always outliers in any statistical group, but you don’t judge based solely on the outliers but on general trends.

Here are the stats for the wonderlic:

the average QB score is a 24

the average score for the QBs slated to start in 2010 is about a 28.5

The average score for Pro Bowl QBs over the last several years is a little over 29 (most years the year average is between 28.7 and about 29.8, usually at least 29)

The average score for recent super bowl winning QBs is 30.1

what this shows is there is a GENERAL CORRELATION between success in the NFL as a QB and wonderlic scores. obviously it is not a be all and all and I do not claim it to be. if a QB has no other skills that impressive except a wonderlic, then it would be stupid to draft him high…just like someone who can only run a 40 but has no great tape or not good other skills.

Now I know you like clausen and you might not consider it a factor b/c he is a 23, but it would be stupid IMO to downgrade him significantly because of this. it isn’t a good score, but certainly is not a bad score. I feel it might drop him a bit (draft stock wise) but he shouldn’t drop much. he has the other skills to succeed so the fact that his wonderlic is just slightly below average shouldn’t drop him much…just like a mediocre 40 time by lets say Haden (lets say he ran a 4.5 flat in the scenario I am imagining) should not drop him that significantly. All I feel the wonderlic scores this year did was solidify that the rams would take bradford. at the time these came out, the general consensus was moving toward the rams taking a QB. from their camp it seemed like they were leaning towards bradford…all this does is make it more likely they take bradford…but I don’t see clausen dropping out of the top 10 b/c of this.

by bross09 on Mar 13, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Last night on Sportscenter…
“Tim Tebow received a 22 on his Wonderlic, which is below the average of QBs. But you know what? He won X games out of X starts at Florida. So moving on….”

Whenever something bad about precious Timmy comes up, there’s a national emergency to add something good about him in case someone realizes he will not do well in the NFL (as a QB, at least).

by emily522 on Mar 12, 2010 12:02 PM EST reply actions  

exactly.

their idea is:

yeah, he wins and that translates to the NFL…but Wonderlic, Dan Marino got a 15 (even though he didn’t answer all the questions).

Its kind of how it was mentioned that ESPN avoided for days to talk about the Big Ben story. But I accept it. I understand the media biases. they exist in sports too just like they exist at MSNBC and FOX.

by bross09 on Mar 12, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

btw, forgot to make a snippy remark about how wins have absolutely no correlation to success.

by bross09 on Mar 12, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

With regards to not answering the questions, I think that happens frequently since the test is timed and part of the goal of the test is to see how many correct questions the athletes can answer in a limited timeframe.

by Roger Dorn on Mar 12, 2010 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I do understand that and I understand the marino case, but there are already exceptions.

by bross09 on Mar 12, 2010 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

*always…I meant always instead of already.

by bross09 on Mar 12, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, winning on a team doesn’t mean you’re going to be a great NFL QB like most of the ESPN goons seem to think.

By that logic Craig Krenzel should have been great in the NFL because he won at OSU. (I know Tebow’s success doesn’t compare, but you get the gist.)

by emily522 on Mar 12, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah. I do get it. there was an article linked to on DBN from walterfootball where they talk about winning in college doesn’t matter.

by bross09 on Mar 12, 2010 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

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