Possible third-round QBs not named Tebow, McCoy, or LeFevour
by Matt Y. on Mar 21, 2010 8:39 PM EDT
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PrintThinking about who the Browns might draft at QB...
Looking at this draft's quarterbacks, there are 5 who I have seen getting the most discussion. These 5 are Bradford, Clausen, McCoy, Tebow, and LeFevour. McCoy and Clausen are obviously going in the 1st round. The other three might be available when the Browns pick in the third round, although I have a feeling that McCoy and Tebow will be gone. But no matter who's there, let's say the Browns go with someone else altogether. Here are some of the possibilities. The descriptions are what others have written, not my own observations.
Tony Pike: He's tall, but thin for a quarterback; needs to bulk up. Has average arm strength, lacks zip on some of his throws, might be a product of Cincinnati's spread offense, and had problems with his footwork at the Senior Bowl. On the plus side, he's intelligent, makes good decisions, has great timing, is accurate in short-to-intermediate passes, and has nice touch. Tony Pike's Stats
Jevan Snead: Good size, great arm, quick release. Athletic and can make a play while scrambling. Had a strong sophomore season, but his junior season was very disappointing, with 20 TDs, 20 int's, and a 54.4 completion percentage. Wildly inconsistent; very inaccurate when he's off, great when he's on. Prone to poor decision-making and stares down receivers. Jevan Snead's Stats
Sean Canfield: Left-handed. Is inexperienced, as his only full-time experience came in his senior season. He did have significant playing time in his sophomore season, and struggled, but he had a fine senior year. Has good footwork and mechanics, good pocket passer, played in a pro-style offense, willing to take a hit, reads defenses well, makes good decisions, is accurate on short-to-intermediate throws, has a nice deep ball. Sometimes holds on to the ball too long. One year wonder or a late bloomer? Sean Canfield's Stats
Jonathan Crompton: Greatly improved his accuracy and decision making in his senior season. Has a strong arm and can make all the throws. Throws well on the move, but is not as accurate from the pocket. Durable. Has good mechanics. Still locks onto his primary receiver too often. Jonathan Crompton's Stats
Tim Hiller: Prototypical size and is intelligent. Relatively strong arm; has a good deep ball when given time in the pocket, but sometimes his deep ball will float. The ball doesn't always have a tight spiral coming out of his hand. Is accurate on short-to-midrange passes. Classic pocket passer; experienced in a pro-style offense. Struggles under pressure, faces concern about the level of competition. Might need improvement on footwork. Had a huge junior season but a disappointing senior year. Tim Hiller's Stats
Jarrett Brown: Great athlete, but inexperienced (only one year as starter), and inconsistent with his decision-making, mechanics, and accuracy. Has a great arm and can make all the throws, but is very raw. Jarrett Brown's Stats
Other names: John Skelton, Levi Brown, Max Hall, Ryan Perilloux
NOTES: I didn't know a thing about these guys before I started writing this post. I read several scouting reports on each player, which was frustrating because the reports not only disagreed on the ranking for the players, they also disagreed somewhat on the specific strengths/weaknesses of the players. For example, Scouting News' Draft magazine ranked Crompton as the second quarterback (behind Bradford) and called him a first-round talent (while acknowledging that he is likely to be drafted lower than their ranking). Others have Crompton ranked as low as the 14th quarterback or so. Walterfootball said Hiller and Pike have very weak arms, while multiple others said they have at least average or good arms. So if you have different impressions of these guys' strengths, fine. Most of them had at least one source suggesting a pick as high as the second or third round, with others projecting them lower.
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Crompton played in a very conservative offense at UT this past season, and I really doubt he will go sooner than the 5th round. A lot of his reads were simplified because he was a liability with his decision-making. They used roll-outs prominently.
Sean Canfield might not be drafted, Jevan Snead scares the heck out of me, and Ryan Perriloux has to many issues.
I think this leaves Max Hall, Tony Pike, and Tim Hiller as legitimate options for the Browns somewhere in the draft. The knock on Hall is arm-strength, and Pike has questions because of the offense he played in. Pike intrigues me the most, but I think Hiller is a guy to watch. He played in the West Coast offense at WMU which means he had to make a lot of reads that will translate to the NFL ( protection calls, audibles, checks, etc.)
I like hiller. granted the MAC is a conference that I like a lot, but I think he could be a solid NFL QB.
I don’t know why you say canfield might not be drafted. personally I think he will be and he is fairly solid as a prospect.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I forgot the lefty thing.
You do have good points. I haven’t looked at Canfield enough but I do know there are some questions about his arm strength. however, I thought it was NFL average from what I read.
I do think he will get drafted, he just won’t be that good.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Out of all of these I like Brown and Hiller the best. I don’t think we need to use a 3rd on Hiller. Brown, maybe our 2nd or 3rd pick in the 3rd. Both are longshots and will have work to do in the league.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I don’t think we need to use a 3rd on Hiller.
Probably not. I threw him in there because I like what I’ve read of him, and he was projected as high as the third round at least after his junior season. His senior season probably dropped him significantly. I do like him better than Snead or J. Brown though. If we go after an athletic type like Brown, we might as well go after Tebow or LeFevour. And Snead strikes me as Derek Anderson 2.0, with more mobility.
I think half of these guys will be there in the 4th round.
Brown won’t, Pike Probably won’t and neither will Snead…but the rest will likey be available in the 4th-5th rounds.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Brown scares the crap outta me.
Maybe it was just me, but whenever I watched WVU, it just seemed that he had no idea what to do when he dropped back.
I can understand what there is to love about the kid, but as a QB he just seems like he is never going to be a good drop back QB in this league.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 22, 2010 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think we can know that. He started for one year in an offense that isn’t exactly built around drop back passing. For me, the 3rd+ round QB draft pick is about upside—the guy simply must have it. If he had upside and there were no questions about him, he wouldn’t be there in the 3rd. If he had no upside, then why pick him in the first place? 3rd round QBs are longshots, and you gotta pick one that at least has the physical ability to play in the league. That is all I have to go on as a fan.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
rec. That’s why I like Brown a lot more than guys like Canfield and Hall.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 22, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I do not like Hall as an NFL prospect.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
No one does besides that one guy who came by to post every few weeks and say why we should take Hall
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 25, 2010 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Makes sense. But I think that there is a good bit of guessing and luck involved with scouting any mid-to-late round quarterback, whether you’re talking about a raw toolsy guy or a more polished guy known for accuracy and/or decision-making. The knock on Tom Brady coming out of college was that he lacked athleticism and arm strength and didn’t look like a quarterback, although he was good at reading defenses. Matt Schaub was criticized for lack of arm strength, but his positives were poise and accuracy. Marc Bulger was criticized for lack of arm strength and zip on his throws, but he had football awareness and leadership skills.
Absolutely, but all of the guys you mentioned have enough arm strength to get the job done. I don’t see Schaub having any problems launching it to A. Johnson, same thing with Brady to Moss. While not huge, all are big enough. All are accurate.
I can’t say I think the same about many of the guys above. But the reason guys like Brady, Warner, etc. were available for so long was because everyone was wrong about them.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Is he worth a 3rd? I don’t think he should be taken anywhere before the fifth round. I understand what you are talking about upside, but I think Brown’s is limited at best.
Take away his arm strength (which I will be the first to admit is world class) would he even be considered a draftable player? I think arm strength is massively over rated, especially at this time of year. Who cares if Brown can throw the ball 65 yards with a flick of the wrist if he is throwing it to the wrong spot or even worse, the wrong team?
Give me a QB with a questionable arm and has shown the ability to play the QB position well.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 23, 2010 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Not worth a third to me. Maybe there is a run on QBs and you get a little trigger happy and you get him a little early. Also, seeing as we have three 3rds right now, I would be inclined to reach with the last one/two, provided it was for a guy we really liked at a valuable position—especially if the other guys out there looked like their ceilings were ST.
I don’t care if Brown can throw 65 yards with the flick of a wrist, I just don’t see a 6’0" 200lbs Max Hall being able to withstand a hit by Casey Hampton. I’ll go with the guy who has a chance to live after being hit.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Yes, and Brown seemed to always injure himself on plays quite often at WVU. Many times it seemed to be when we needed him most as well. I don’t have much confidence in him.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
That would be a concern. I still trust him to take less of that punishment in our offense vs. WVU’s, and I’d still trust him to take a hit from Hampton/Ngata before I would trust Hall to.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
That is true as well. WVU runs that spread offense with lots of zone reads, so the QB is often playing like a RB taking hits. The guy is gifted as far as athleticism and arm strength, I’m just not positive that you could harness the intangibles he has going against him. I do agree with him taking a hit over Hall though!
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
Brown has shown flashes of greatness and really looks like he is nowhere near his ceiling. He can make every throw necessary.
And I’m not the biggest scrambling QB fan, but that still is a small plus.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 25, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
so he is a more raw, more inexperienced version of Michael Vick.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
and slower. I read that Michael vick ran the 40 under 4.4
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Brown ran in the 4.4s in the combine. That’s very impressive.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 26, 2010 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought he ran mid 4.5
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I thought he ran a 4.49 or 4.46
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 27, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
He ran a 4.5 flat. that was his official time at the combine.
Michael Vick’s official time was a 4.33
Plus he was able to duplicate it (it wasn’t just a combine time) because he ran about a 4.35 in rookie mini camp the same year.
there is no way jarrett brown is as skilled as vick. they are similar types of players but Vick is much more skilled.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I wasn’t one that copared him to vick.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 28, 2010 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions
well…
when I pointed out michael vick had much more speed you defended brown saying his speed is better than it was. you took the side of the person comparing him to vick. while you directly didn’t compare him to vick, you argued for the person who did so you might as well have.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
ummmmmm…no?
I said he did run a fast time. I never said anything about him being similar to Vick. I was the one who said he is more like Vince Young.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 28, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
No character concerns. And I would say he is more similar to Vince Young
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 26, 2010 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions
we don’t want brown…i posted this on a different thread I believe. He is afraid of the rush, runs with the ball held loosely in one hand causing fumbles, and seems confused often on his reads. He is gifted athletically and has a cannon for an arm, but not that great on accuracy. Pat White was much, much better at all the above
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
All correctable things.
Again, this is why these guys are late round draft picks and not 1st or 2nd rounders. There is going to be something you don’t like about all of them.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
supposedly many mocks have brown in the third. However, I would not take him there. He has good athletic ability but do we need that right now at QB? we have enough athletes to play the wildcat. as of right now, for the next couple years, I see him more as being a wildcat QB.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Why not just have him sit the bench?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
its a possibility. I am not opposed to it, but I wouldn’t take him.
Like I said, he will be effective right away as a wildcat QB. I think he has the potential to be solid a few years down the line. However, do we need another guy who can run the wildcat?
Not like that should take away from holmgren drafting him. if he thinks that brown has the tools to be an NFL QB, then he should draft him…he sure knows a lot more about QBs than me and everyone here.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I think it would be awfully difficult for a rookie QB to focus on being a wildcat player right now and also keep an eye on being a more traditional QB down the road.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
If I had to name a deep sleeper in this QB draft class I would say John Skelton.
He has the size and the tools, he just played at a very small school. Worth a late pick.
Thanks for the heads up.
Sounds like he could be a nice find late or a UDFA. He already has some meetings with teams planned (Jax).
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 22, 2010 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Would Hiller be there for our pick in the 5th or would we have to burn an late 3rd/early 4th to get him?
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 21, 2010 9:57 PM EDT reply actions
He would probably be there in the 5th or 6th.
He has awful pocket presence though.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 21, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
jarett brown and skelton could be sleepers. I think some team is in love with skelton and will take him in the third round. Brown definitely has nfl tools, he is pretty underrated, could go as early as the second. I really don’t like Pike’s chances in the NFL. Strikes me as a system guy. Skinny and a pretty weak arm.
The rest of the guys dont have much buzz and have a chance to go undrafted.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
I don’t think we will be happy with Brown. As a mountaineer fan I’ve watched him play a good deal. He is afraid of the pass rush, gets injured often, tends to drop the ball and run with it in one hand creating fumbles, and is not accurate. The only upside to Brown is that he has a cannon for an arm.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
meh
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 22, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Another guy to look at is Daryll Clark from PSU. One of the toughest QB’s I’ve seen and great arm strength, as well as the ability to throw accurately on the move.
you’re a penn state fan aren’t you?
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 24, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but I mean what’s not to like. The team is run by one of the classiest coaches in NCAA history. They produce NFL worthy talent consistently, especially at the LB position. I’m definatelt not a fan of Pittsburgh, just the Nittany Lions. I realize it looks like I’m only interested in us drafting their players, but I’m just putting more names into the discussion. I definately don’t think Clark is worthy of a high pick, but if drafted in the 5-7 round, he could progress into a solid player.
i’m also a psu fan and agree with your previous assessments. sean lee won’t be spectacular, but will work hard and will be a solid contributor for someone for 10 or more seasons. bowmann has the potential to be great, if he slips due to character issues, someone is gonna get a steal. clark is solid, strong and has a decent arm, but has shown a tendency to make some poor decisions in some big spots. but this is something he could improve upon with NFL experience.
I really don’t think Bowmann is that good, especially in our 3-4. I think he could be good in a scheme like the Colts’ or Buc’s.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
What about him makes you think he’s not fit for that system. I know I’m big on him because I’m a PSU fan, which means I might be looking past some flaw of his, but that guy has a nose for the ball. If you watched them play, he and Lee were in on virtually every tackle.
Bowman has a serious lack of size to be successful as an ILB in the 3-4.
Like Rufio noted, someone at his size would be better suited as OLB in a Tampa 2 type system. Think of a Cato June.
Bowman can be good, but I doubt it will be in the middle of a 3-4 team.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 24, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
As BK19 notes, he just seems smaller and quicker than we would like. Its not that I think he would be particularly bad in our 3-4, just not especially good either. I think he has a much better chance of being good to great in a Tampa-2 type system. In a Tampa-2, he could potentially be playing behind no uncovered OL. In our base D he would have to play behind an uncovered OG. Do you really see him taking on a 320lber and being able to shed that block and make the tackle?
And that’s casting the character concerns aside.
Kid’s got potential, I just think he has a better chance of reaching it in a 4-3.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
yeah. He looks to me to be a guy who fits much better in a 4-3. Kind of like Beau Bell (except bowman is likely better).
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
In what way is he comparable to Bell? Bell was a big, physical LB with questionable movement skills. Bowmann is quick and smallish…?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
In the fact that he probably wouldn’t fit a 3-4 Well…
Bell never fit here.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
They produce NFL worthy talent consistently, especially at the LB position
I don’t like the idea of Clark as an LB.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 25, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
If you read it, I was simply saying they bring out talent consistently…especially at LB. I don’t think that translates into Clark will be a LB?
Just a joke because mentioning LB’s sucess is unrelated to QBs.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 26, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Too average across the board. His mobility is not impressive enough to be valuable in the NFL and he has average arm strength. With his short arms, he struggles to get the ball vertically. Every time I’ve seen him play, I’ve been very unimpressed with him. Good college quarterback, not a great pro prospect.
How often hae you watched the guy? I mean honestly, in two seasons in the Big 10 he lost what, 3, 4 games. He’s an exceptional leader on the field and in the locker room. He has great mobility for a QB and can take on would be tacklers because ofhis build. His throws on the run, aside from the occasional bad game, are on a rope, and he has no trouble going deep. His problem is, and always has been, accuracy. In the late rounds he is a smart pick.
I’ve watched him play about 8 games in the past two seasons. To be honest, I don’t really care how many games he won or lost in his time, at least not enough to make me draft him. Games won or lost is more of an anecdotal stat used in relation to others ( why a great player on a talented team hasn’t won more games, i.e. Jimmy Clausen, possible leadership issues?)
Daryll Clark’s mobility is ok. He is not especially quick or fast. He is Tim Tebow with a smaller frame. I don’t believe there’s any chance of him taking on tacklers in the NFL with any great success.
Accuracy is a big issue with limited arm strength. Almost all of the deep throws I’ve seen him make were to guys with great separation already; I just think he’s far too limited as a prospect to be worth a draft pick. I think he goes undrafted.
I don’t know about undrafted, but I’ll admit he has accuracy problems. There’s just no way you’re gonna sell me on his lack of arm strength. I’m not saying his mobility is something to write home about, but compared to most QB in the NFL, he as exceptional mobility. I’m not trying to say he’s got Micheal Vick/Vince Young mobility.
The problem is, Wins in college do not correlate to success at all in the pros…Didn’t Leinart lose less in 2 years (I am guessing, the team was close to undefeated every year).
The problem is, that being an exceptional leader can only get you so far. If you don’t make great decisions consistently, and aren’t overly accurate.
He is the kind of guy where you look at him as a prospect, and there is no area of his game that I would say is just bad. However, there is no area of his game to me that is overly impressive.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I’m not saying he’s a franchise QB, but you can’t just throw things like, “average arm strengh”, out there. If you’re looking at last year, his receiving core was a joke, which dropped his numbers. I realize the Browns aren’t loaded at WR, but this guy definately does not lack arm strength, either way.
Just a helpful hint. If the scouting reports are not from you, you really should link to where you got them from. Give those authors the proper credit for what they wrote.
I like Pike. He always looked confident and accurate on his throws. The offense was simple, but he still had three or four reads on each throw. Plus Cincinnati threw down field a lot more than people credit them for. His arm strength can’t be that bad.
by rebuilding year on Mar 24, 2010 3:23 PM EDT reply actions
Pike is a solid QB, but when he was injured, his back up came in and matched, if not exceeded his performance. Makes me wonder if those around him made him look a bit better than he is. I’d like to see him visit Cleveland to get a more accurate measure of his talent.
This is a good point. Zach Collaros is very limited physically and matched or exceeded his play in his time as starter.
But Collaros played an entirely different style back there. It does raise some questions when the backup comes in and is playing as well, but I remember being more impressed with Pike’s throws vs. Collaros’ competitiveness and ability to just get it done.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Cincy did use a lot of vertical stretching/route stems. I don’t think his arm is the scariest thing about him, but I am not sold either. If his stock is slipping like some think, I wouldn’t mind taking a shot if Homgren pulls the trigger.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Well, this was interesting. I expected Pike to be the leader, but didn’t expect Snead to be the clear 2nd choice. Actually I’m not sure who I expected to be second. I thought Crompton would do better; didn’t expect Skelton, Hiller, and Brown to get more support than him. I didn’t expect the last option to get quite as many votes.
Last option probably appealed to people that assume LeFevour, Tebow, and McCoy count as dark horses in the third round.
I’d actually be pissed if we got any of the guys listed in the poll with our early 3rd round pick.
If LeFevour or McCoy aren’t there in the 3rd (and we didn’t get a QB in the 1st or 2nd), grab Pike, Robinson, Snead, Clark, Hall or Brown or whoever else is left in the 5th or 6th.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Mar 26, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
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