Around the Pound (3/21): Trade Interest in Chris Gocong, No Interest in Veteran O-Linemen
by Chris Pokorny on Mar 21, 2010 5:48 PM EDT
in General News
249 comments
In today's edition of Around the Pound, we take a look at trade rumors that began circulating a few days ago involving linebacker Chris Gocong, Tony Grossi's dismissal of veteran offensive linemen the Cleveland Browns might be interested in, Terry Pluto's Sunday column, and more.
Rumors of a Browns/Eagles Deal for Chris Gocong
Tommy Lawlor, who writes for Eagles Blitz and also is a contributing writer to the Philadelphia Eagles website, posted a tidbits regarding the Browns in his rumor mill a few days ago:
Cleveland is talking to the Eagles about Chris Gocong. Tom Heckert is the man who drafted Chris and Eric Mangini is the coach who coveted Gocong back in the 2006 draft. Chris actually thought he was going to be a Jet. He was caught off guard by the Eagles. We'll see if the teams can agree on compensation. Word is that the Eagles are hoping for a 4th round pick.
On Friday, Lawlor had an update regarding the situation on his blog:
Sounds like the Gocong deal might be on hold for now. Chances are that he will be dealt between now and the draft, but I think the Eagles and Browns are both trying to figure out exactly what they want to do before finalizing the trade. Scouts and coaches are working out players on a daily basis and that can affect the plans for next round of moves.
Mangini was quoted as having an interest in drafting Gocong a few years ago when he was the head coach of the New York Jets, so I certainly think there is some merit to the rumor. Perhaps this will be the type of trade we hear about as the draft is actually taking place. Gocong has been both a special teams contributor and a starting linebacker (primarily on the outside) for the Eagles and would seem to complement the current set of good-but-not-great linebackers on the roster. He could be competition to start in place of LB Kamerion Wimbley.
No Interest in Rob Sims or Shawn Andrews; Holmgren's OT Opinion
There had been rumors that the Browns might have an interest in Seahawks guard Rob Sims. According to Tony Grossi, that's not the case. In addition, the team isn't interested in acquiring OL Shawn Andrews either:
[The Browns] do not have a strong interest in Seattle guard Rob Sims, a Macedonia native, who is a restricted free agent. ... When Philadelphia released former No. 1 pick Shawn Andrews, an accomplished lineman, the natural assumption was that Browns GM Tom Heckert, who was GM when the Eagles drafted Andrews, would be interested. It's not so. Heckert is well-versed in Andrews' off-field issues with depression and injuries.
Team president Mike Holmgren also offered a word on the proposed overtime rule changes for the postseason:
"For example, [with the old format], if you get down to the 10-yard line, you kick the field goal and win the game," he said. "The new rule, you'd have to go for the touchdown. First [down] at the 7? Most teams now just don't want to lose the ball. But [with the new format], you're down to fourth and goal from the 2, what do you do?"
Either way, the big controversy surrounding the rule in my book would still be that it would only apply to the postseason.
Several Teams Were Interested in Wimbley
Again according to Grossi, several teams were interested in acquiring LB Kamerion Wimbley. The thing that turned them off was that he only had one year left on his contract, and it wasn't worth offering high compensation knowing that he would need a new deal so soon.
Our Cardinals SB Nation affiliate weighs in on the thought of missing out on Wimbley here.
Terry Pluto Wants to Hear From You
Check out the link above; the Plain Dealer's Terry Pluto is writing a book about the Browns on a variety of topics. I know we have some of the most knowledgeable Browns fans on the Internet here, so I encourage you to email him with your thoughts.
Of Pluto's football talk, this is the section that I'll quote today -- it's a citation of ESPN's K.C. Joyner on how the Jake Delhomme trade might work out better than most people think:
"As daunting as those figures are, a closer look shows that the Browns have a good chance of improving their interception total with Delhomme under center. Only five of Delhomme's picks last season were due to a bad decision on his part. Most of the others came as a result of tipped, dropped or inaccurate passes. That compares quite well to the seven interceptions that Quinn and Anderson threw as a result of bad decisions."
About the Recommended Comments
(Note: This section takes the place of the off-beat notes for today)
We all love seeing recommended comments, right? When the feature first came out to make a comment "go green," I set the requirement so that a comment would only need two "recs." That was fine when Dawgs By Nature first opened, because there were less commenters, and it really took a good/funny comment to "go green."
Lately, we've had a lot more traffic and I think a lot more posters are getting familiar with using the feature. Now, I've wondered if too many of the comments are going green even if they aren't necessarily worth it. I'm indifferent to the situation really, but I thought I'd put it to a vote. Please leave a vote, and then state your opinion in the comments section below as to how many "recs" you think should be required before a comment "goes green."
0 recs |
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I think it should be 3.
For Gocong, he is only 26. If Hoheni thinks that he could be a starter I would be stoked to have him. Hopefully a fifth instead of a fourth though.
Would anyone here be upset if we got a first year starter at OLB with a fourth/fifth round pick?
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 21, 2010 6:01 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Third that. Three seems like a reasonable adjustment.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Mar 21, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Fifth.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 21, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
*Sexted.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 22, 2010 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions
we frown upon sexting here
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 22, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Tiger Woods or Tiger’s Wood?
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 22, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
tiger’s woods
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 22, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Looks like he’s carrying a 3 wood there, damn sexting.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 23, 2010 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Says the one person who voted for two. You just know that you’ll never get one green with three.
Sorry bub, that’s the reason we’re moving it to 3.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 21, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I was saying this if I would mind giving up a late round pick for gocong. I don’t really care about the green issue as much.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Ah, as Chris showed below.
I apologize for my rough form of /sarc
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 21, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
HAHA
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 21, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it should be 3.
nope.
For Gocong, he is only 26. If Hoheni thinks that he could be a starter I would be stoked to have him. Hopefully a fifth instead of a fourth though.
nope.
Would anyone here be upset if we got a first year starter at OLB with a fourth/fifth round pick?
nope.
Open to interpretation :)
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Mar 21, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah. I was unclear. I should have said that would be a good deal.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Yeah…
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 21, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
How great would it be to have King Kong and Gocong on the field at the same time?
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
Matt Roth could be Rothra.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 21, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think we should leave it at 2. the more we go green the better.
Hey, its helping the environment.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Indeed.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 21, 2010 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
so the more we go green the better!
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Trees love our carbon. Keep driving your car.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 21, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
A cow’s fart emmits more methane than a car’s emissions.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 21, 2010 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
which is why i eat so much beef, to help the environment.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 21, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Udder nonsense.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 23, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah it does. Let’s keep the cows coming!
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 21, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Only five of Delhomme’s picks last season were due to a bad decision on his part. Most of the others came as a result of tipped, dropped or inaccurate passes.
Um, wouldn’t an inaccurate pass be Delhomme’s fault?
Without doing the film study, it’s hard to say how subjective Joyner’s analysis is. I couldn’t find a free link to his whole piece, unfortunately….
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Mar 21, 2010 6:14 PM EDT reply actions
yes. an inaccurate pass would be his fault. but I did watch some panthers games and a couple were because of tipped or dropped balls.
I don’t think he was analyzing accuracy. this was an analysis purely on decision making. Delhomme has also always been an accurate QB for his career, which you can’t say about DA or BQ. so i would assume that less would be caused by inaccuracy. Even in his bad year last year, he still had a 56 completion percentage. while that isn’t great, it is about as good as DA was his pro bowl year.
However, it is valid because I do value decision making as a QB. occasionally even Peyton throws an errant pass and it gets intercepted. yes, it is not good to have a lot of INTs, but Delhomme historically is much more accurate than either of our QBs and even was last year.
Decision making I believe is key for a QB. that is where I fault both BQ and DA. they never seemed to make the right decisions. Peyton isn’t great b/c he is super accurate (though that is a factor) he is great because of his decision making. with Delhomme we have a much better decision maker and that is the point being made.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
thought we need to address the position sometime by the end of the third round.
I think he is a much better fit in a 3-4. He was drafted as a rush Linebacker DE/OLB type. The eagles however took him and made him a 4-3 OLB. He played fairly well but was out of position. in a 3-4 I think he can succeed better. I think he can be similar to Roth.
Both guys coming out were big enough to play DE in the pros (gocong at around 265 was slightly undersized but I believe this is the size derrick morgan is). neither one is a burner like wimbley but they both have a good first step. I think gocong could be a very good player in a 4-3.
DE/OLB. Eagles drafted him to play SLB. Better than average against run, good pass rusher, weak in pass coverage.
This is a comment made by an eagles fan on a scout.com forum about him. Like roth, he can play the run fairly well. He was better than average as a SLB and I think in a 3-4 he can be a little better against the run. He is a good pass rusher. while he isn’t anything special, he can get to the QB, maybe a bit better than roth. He is very strong for his size and as a pass rusher, can use his strength.
I don’t know how good his pass rush moves are, since he went from DE at a D1-AA school (where he might have relied on more talent, but I dunno) to playing 3-4 OLB. He can quite possibly develop some good moves.
I also love his quickness. He doesn’t have elite straight line speed for a rusher, but he has excellent burst.
Here are his 40 splits from the combine 1.61, 2.74, 4.7
Here is wimbleys: 1.6, 2.74, 4.6
Wimbley had much better speed but I love that quick first step that Gocong has. not that it matters a ton, but he scored incredibly high on the wonderlic and seems like he is a smart hard worker. In a way, he is a smaller, quicker, more athletic version of roth. These kinds of OLBs I like because they can rush the passer or play the run both well. I dunno how much Rob ryan drops the OLBs into coverage but my guess is he would have to play coverage less than in Philly…and that was his one big weakness…plain and simple, I think he is a great fit.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
The Eagles blitz their LBs a lot. It isn’t as “out of position” as it could be. Not all 4-3 teams are the same.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I know they blitz a lot. Still, the way they play their OLBs is still different a bit from how a 3-4 team plays their OLBs.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
You also have to take into consideration that the Eagles depend on their speed. Which is why their defense is not the same as others.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 21, 2010 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
yes. I know about the eagles defense.
I am just saying, even in the eagles scheme, he still was an OLB in a 4-3. even on the eagles, they DO not have the same responsibility that they do under rob ryan.
He still played admirably in Philly and I think he can improve his sack numbers in a 3-4, even though they do blitz often in philly.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
No, I agree. I was just saying. I’m not trying to start an argument.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 21, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah. Gocong isn’t extremely rangy for an OLB in a 4-3…even the eagles 4-3. He truly is a pass rusher DE type. his 40 time at the combine was a 4.7 that is solid for a Rush linebacker in a 3-4 but even in the eagles scheme, especially since it does utilize speed, is a little slow. He was also asked to go into coverage fairly often and didn’t look great there, but I believe he would be asked to cover less here.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Just curious, anyone know what LGT’s rec-number is?
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
2
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 21, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I swear I’ve seen green comments with only 2 or three recs.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 21, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
This.
"...maybe this year, there's no gorilla" - YoDaddyWags
by woodsmeister on Mar 23, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I also think they probably get less traffic than DBN, but thats just off the top of my head, i could be way off base on that.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 21, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m fairly certain it’s the other way around.
Brady Quinn will never be a good quarterback for the Browns.
are you fairly hog certain?
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 22, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I wanted to say this.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 23, 2010 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions
At the very bottom of the every page you can click on the sitemeter link in the bottom right. It is a pretty cool tool on the SBN sites.
The day Brady Quinn was traded the site got 15k hits.
Ghanki is right, it is more than 2 to 1.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 23, 2010 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
is this how someone knew bross was making half the comments in threads at one point?
You are reading my signature.
by rolub on Mar 23, 2010 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
CTRL + A
CTRL + C
open text editor or IDE
CTRL + V
CTRL + F
type in a username
Easy as that. Takes 10 seconds.
Or you can just hit ‘/’ in firefox, but then you have to count the instances manually.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
I got Bross on here for 30 comments.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 23, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Because this stream of comments is about you.
Make that 31.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 23, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
It isn’t about me…its very flattering but it isn’t.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
is this how someone knew bross was making half the comments in threads at one point?
CTRL + A
CTRL + C
open text editor or IDE
CTRL + V
CTRL + F
type in a username
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 23, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the rec’s should be at a higher number.
Seeing a post that is already green with two recs gives me less motivation to actually rec it myself. And seeing those stretches of 5 consecutive green posts with two recs each can be anoying.
I think a good solid number would be 5. That way if you really want a comment to be green, you’ll get off your but and try to make it happen.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
Yeah but then a lot of really clever comments (like for example, most of mine) don’t go green because not as many people are picking up on it.
Brady Quinn will never be a good quarterback for the Browns.
by danvail on Mar 22, 2010 7:23 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m not here for the recs, but I do laugh when my comments go green.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 21, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes to Gocong. I would also love to get a LB who is huge and fast and physically off the charts at some point.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I’m game.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 22, 2010 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions
As daunting as those figures are, a closer look shows that the Browns have a good chance of improving their interception total with Delhomme under center. Only five of Delhomme’s picks last season were due to a bad decision on his part. Most of the others came as a result of tipped, dropped or inaccurate passes
Umm…the Browns receivers were bad about tipping passes.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 21, 2010 10:49 PM EDT reply actions
And dropping them.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
They’d make a hell of a volleyball team.
Brady Quinn will never be a good quarterback for the Browns.
Not enough height. And maybe not enough hops.
"...maybe this year, there's no gorilla" - YoDaddyWags
by woodsmeister on Mar 23, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
It looks like they want to complete their sloth behemoth linebacker set.
If I had to field them, it would end up:
OLB Scott Fujita
ILB Matt Roth
ILB Jason Trusnik
OLB Chris Gocong
It tells me Rob Ryan is still instituting peoples´ fantasies from Madden, expecting opposing offenses to run it right at the linebackers. Oh well, at least they look impressive.
I would much prefer Chris Kuper and Mike Goff, to plug in as guards.
You all know I think Eric Steinbach could go All Pro at center.
And I´ve stated once, that I think Alex Mack was misplaced at center, and would make the meanest Nose Guard in the NFL, if you had the guts to move him.
Marshall Yanda, Logan Mankins? At guard.
by mooncamping on Mar 22, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I just… fine:
Steinbach is known as a finesse guard who excels in pulling. What the f makes you think that would make him a better center than anything else? That might make center his least competent position. Also, he’s been an all pro at guard, but, you know, never mind that.
Brady Quinn will never be a good quarterback for the Browns.
danvail has been here forever already.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 22, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow, you’ve been here for like what 2 months?
You do not be little Danvail as such.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 22, 2010 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
*belittle
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 22, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
We all deal with moon in our own way, he’s a celebrity here, and I think he’s Heckert.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 23, 2010 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I think he’s the mooncamping collective
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 23, 2010 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Or maybe our mooncamping is just a Tim Heckert clone sent to infiltrate DBN and prepare us for what he’s planning to do, and gauge our reactions to his ideas.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 23, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Is Tim Heckert Tom’s brother?
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 23, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have stupid fingers, but that could make sense too.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 23, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I also recall that he ranked 86th best guard in the NFL on this experts list, and no one defended him. So, what´s the hullabaloo at this point, about comparing him to Mack at guard.
by mooncamping on Mar 23, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Christ if we get Gocong our LB corps will be huge and slow.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
gocong is not that slow. He isn’t wimbley speed, but he is faster than roth and about as fast (in straight line speed) as DQ. DQ isn’t slow, but he isn’t fast. Gocong also has a very quick first step and is pretty explosive.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
If are linebackers are all going to be big and “slow,” they will have to be good against the run. If we are better against the run next year, that will put even more pressure on the CBs and safeties. We will then HAVE to draft to improve our coverage skills. If not, teams will just throw on us all day and then run when the big LBs are gassed.
by Nuclear Power on Mar 22, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
If Gocong’s 10- and 20-yard splits were the same as Wimbley’s, that’s good enough for me.
I don’t want our LBs running 40 yards in a straight line.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
yeah. that rarely happens. wimbley might have more straight line speed over long distances but Gocong has exactly the same speed in short distances and that is what matters. He also had more BP reps (which doesn’t matter a ton) and is a little bigger. I dunno how much 20 yd SS means but he was significantly better than wimbley (I am pretty sure it measures COD ability though I may be wrong).
I agree with you and I would not mind if we ended up trading him for the exact pick we got for getting rid of wimbley. granted, I think we may be able to get him for less.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
The short shuttle is 5 yds one way, plant, 10 yds back the other (past where you came from), and then 5 yds back to the start.
I cannot believe you didn’t know what this was, considering your confidence in your own scouting ability.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
For those who are interested, Adam Caplan who follows the Eagles pretty closely, tweeted that he thinks Gocong will be traded in the future.
He mentioned another time that the teams were waiting for the comp picks to be handed out. Makes me think that the trade will be for a late pick.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 23, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
D’Qwell for Gocong and a pick would suit me fine.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 23, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions
straight up? Nah. unless it is a 2nd-3rd round pick. Gocong from what I am hearing would probably go for a 4th. He also has never played in a 3-4 although I think he is a great fit.
Still, if you are going to trade DQ for gocong and a pick, I would want a pick where we can get a guy who can contribute right away at ILB. while DQ isn’t great, he is a solid starter and we lose something on the inside if we give him up then not get another ILB.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
We lose him in a year (maybe two, I haven’t checked), he’s complaining, and he’s not as good as he’s often made out to be. And we still have Veikune, Bowens, Maiava and Fujita in the rotation at ILB. I’d take a 4th or a 5th.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 23, 2010 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t.
I don’t think anyone has ever made DQ out to be a superstar, but I think he is a solid starter. I don’t think we can get someone of similar value in the 4th or 5th.
The thing is, from rumors floating around, Gocong himself would only cost us a 4th or 5th
the question is, is DQ worth more than 2 4th round picks. I would say yes. I would say he is worth at least an early third.
There is also the question of do the Eagles need him. The answer really is no. They MIGHT use him if they think he can play the WILL. I am not sure if he can play the WILL. The only way I see them having an interest is this scenario. so in a way, we are trading them a player that we could use that they have no use for. that is a recipe for not getting the most value out of a trade, since the team doesn’t have much value for the incoming player.
How about gocong straight up for a 4th or 5th…no getting into this BS of trading DQ. that will just turn into a hot mess.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
The best we could get for Wimbley was a late 3rd, and DQ isn’t as valuable as Wimbley.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
Well
All we could get for WImbley in a contract year where after he would be asking big bucks was a late third.
I think they are similarly valuable IMO. maybe wimbley slightly more, but if you trade for DQ, you are also getting more guaranteed years. Trading wimbley is the equivalence in a way of when teams in baseball trade a guy in his contract year. he is always going to get less.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I forgot to say that they value quicker linebackers. In the eagles scheme, the SLB and WLB both have to be capable to be a 5th pass rusher.
yes, DQ has been an ILB his whole career, but still, he only has 3 sacks in 4 seasons. Not even good for a 3-4 ILB. DQ isn’t great at blitzing and doesn’t have great speed.
Here are some 40 times of LBs that did well in their system
Takeo Spikes: 4.58
Will Witherspoon: 4.58
Moise Fokou: 4.65
Jeremiah Trotter: 4.57
These are all fast linebackers.
They like their linebackers to blitz.
DQ doesn’t fit either of these. Now he is a solid player and I like him in our defense and he fits ours well, however the Jim Johnson D doesn’t use many players like DQ.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I think when drafted.
I forget where I found them exactly, I just searched 40 times for all of them.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I was more pointing more evidence for the fact that DQ would not fit in Philly. I wouldn’t mind getting rid of him, but I doubt they value him as highly as other teams would. They already have a MLB they like (stewart bradley…at least I believe they are set on him). From what I have read on Eagle Message boards, 2 key positions that they are looking at for the defense are DE (so they have someone solid besides cole) and WLB. in their scheme, the OLBs need to be able to blitz. I am not sure if DQ can really blitz all that well.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
All of this from 12 year old 40 times?
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 23, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t need 40 times to know that the philly defense blitzes their OLBs a lot. it makes a lot of sense when you consider Gocong was a 4-3 DE in college. rufio has said the same thing about their blitzing.
I think DQ could be gone, just not to the eagles.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
40 times don’t change (much) with time.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 23, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you think Rich Eisen ran any faster in his younger days?
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
I’m willing to bet there’s a bigger difference in how a journalist’s 40 time changes from 22-40 than in an NFL linebacker’s change from 22-32
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 24, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Anyone to take that bet with you would be an idiot. I was jokin around.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
ah ok, don’t i feel silly now.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 24, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Cribbs was complaining too.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
But we have no one to replace Cribbs. ILB’s with DQ’s skillset are dime a dozen.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
Purely from a physical standpoint, sure. His recognition skills are off the charts. Watch the film and see him diagnose the play before anyone else does. Half a second in play recognition takes you from a 5.0 40 to a 4.5 40.
Just sayin, he isn’t completely replaceable.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I am still of the belief that DQ will not be on the Browns next season.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 23, 2010 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions
on MTD, I was talking to an Eagles fan about if Gocong would be traded,
The guy said what I expected
-The eagles Like Fouku better (he got the starts at the end of the season)
-He would likely go to a 3-4 team
-The eagles do not have much use for him
-they won’t give him up for nothing but would want a later round pick possibly (like 4th or later)
-he thinks it is risky to take him in a 3-4 though b/c he has never played it…however, I trust heckert to make a good decision on a guy he drafted…also the fact that Mangini wanted him for a 3-4 helps in my mind.
-It is quite possible he is traded.
All of this points to us taking him and just confirms my thoughts.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
So does this friend have some front office connections or something? Good to know you got all this from a reliable source. Are you really Mary Kay?
One picture is worth 128K words.
well…this is a mix of opinion and fact.
fact: gocong got his draft round tender (the min that can be given)
fact: gocong got benched
fact: the eagles like faster OLBs
fact: the defensive coordinator praised his replacement, fokou during the season
fact: gocong was a college DE (so would fit a 3-4) team
fact: the eagles have shown no interest in keeping him except to put the tender on
now no need to be snarky…maybe you would realize a little more about the situation if you payed attention every once in a while.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
You think Mary Kay has front office connections?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Haha no, no, of course not. I was saying she doesn’t have reliable sources. Hence why I was comparing her to bross.
One picture is worth 128K words.
hehe…
you comment on anothers comment that I have no reliable sources.
However, when i show you I am not making stuff up like you blatantly accused and don’t have bad sources (multiple eagles fans are better than pulling something out of your ass) you decide to ignore the post and then say i don’t have reliable sources here…but whatever…
you are newer here so I won’t give you that hard of a time for unnecessarily being a dick.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Bross. Stop.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I try to not have a direct conversation with you. I’ve already made that mistake once. You don’t like to admit your wrong. I’ve seen it in multiple threads. In this case, you stated that that you got information from a fan. I wouldn’t necessarily consider a fan a reliable source, nor any of his opinions fact.
One picture is worth 128K words.
by StuckInPa on Mar 24, 2010 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I didn’t claim it to be a “source”
I got information from fans on MTD and another message board. I wouldn’t just take one fans opinion. Plus most fans on here at least have decent understanding of the game. Took the multiple sources, and corroborated them with the information I already knew about Gocong.
Here are the FACTS
fact: gocong got his draft round tender (the min that can be given)
fact: gocong got benched
fact: the eagles like faster OLBs
fact: gocong was a college DE (so would fit a 3-4) team
I forgot to mention in the facts that I wrote earlier that
a) heckert drafted him and therefore has a good knowledge of the player
b) mangini did covet him
All of this was stuff I could find out on my own. I could have never talked to an eagles fan I would know all of this.
I didn’t claim for any of his opinions to be fact. I compared his opinions with what I already KNEW to be a fact.
All the eagles fan confirmed was the possibility that he was available. i already knew he didn’t get a very high tender. I also knew he got benched. combine that with a fan saying that the eagles might want to trade him, and it looks possible that he is on the market…
How am I wrong here? I would admit if I was wrong. However, I didn’t make up all the facts and just pull stuff out of my ass like you think…and you know what, I personally don’t care what you think so seriously? You just stop it.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
often times, the best response is no response at all. please consider this.
by Dawg Nuts on Mar 24, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Yes, bross, please heed this advice. You still get upset when people say something you don’t like and fire off 10-paragraph comments in response. You need to just let things go.
by Buckeye Brad on Mar 24, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
seriously bross, pay attention. I’m prone to my outbursts as well but ya gotta know when to quit and ya gotta pick your battles.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 24, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
And reply button.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 22, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
beat me to it
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 22, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I may be a slow learner, but a learner nonetheless….
by Nuclear Power on Mar 22, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
don’t worry about it, we all did stuff like that when we were new.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 23, 2010 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions
for the green issue …. minimum 3, but I think 5 is correct (we should petition Ryan/Jay at LGT to move up to 5 as well).
On Gocong …. most definitely. I gotta stick with my Cal Poly Mustangs!!!!
I’m a fan of 4. DBN has become increasingly loose with recs, myself included, and I’d like to see it balanced out with a higher standard.
I think 4 or 5 is better than 3. Or better yet, do away with Rec’s altogether.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 22, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If we got rid of the rec’s, our threads would be filled with “This”.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 23, 2010 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m wondering if acquiring Gocong would mean D’Quell is out. Only one of them can start inside opposite Fujita.
Who do you think starts at linebacker for the Browns next year?
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
I’m wondering if Kaluka Maiava wouldn’t make a decent strong safety on some plays. Seems like a versatile undersized linebacker or box safety. I kinda like the guy more and more.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
my guess would be he doesn’t have the speed to play SS but I’m just talking out of my ass here, I could be completely wrong.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 22, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
questionable.
his 40 is 4.65. his straight line speed over 40 yards isn’t great but he gets up to top speed quickly.
Here are some combine numbers for some more hard hitting safeties at the combine
Kam Chancellor: 4.62, 1.60 10 yd split, 6-3 231, 22 BP, 32 in. vertical
Donovan Warren (now listed as safety on Nfldraftscout…and that may be where he lands): 4.62, 1.67 10 yd, 6-0 193, 12 BP
Larry Assante: 4.62, 1.60, 6-0 212, 14, 37
Kaluka: 4.65, 1.56, 6-0, 229, 30, 32.
I think it is possible that we work him in as a roving safety on passing downs. I dunno how good his coverage skills are. if they are solid, I think it is quite possible.
He doesn’t have good speed for a safety, but there are guys with similar speed. As long as you don’t use him as a true coverage safety and more of the role OSU uses their “Star” position it might work. the “Star” is basically a fast, smallish, SLB…that is Maiava.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
It might be effective, but not because the defense itself would be super complex.
Maiava isn’t fast enough to disguise the defensive scheme: if he starts deep, there is no way he is coming 15 yards up to make a tackle behind the LOS. If he starts up close to the line, I don’t think we could rely on him to play a deep zone.
Really what I think you could do is play him in a deep zone, and have him align in the grey area between the box and deep. This way, he might be able to confuse the QB’s read a little because he has a LB number and I don’t think they would fully trust that he was playing deep.
It wouldn’t be groundbreaking, it would just be the kind of thing you do to make the QB take .2 seconds longer to make his read.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
It is possible. he would fit the Star position that OSU runs very well. it is a SLB/SS kind of position. a guy who can cover a slot receiver and play the run…kinda like a third safety.
he has decent speed. 4.65 40. there are safeties in the draft with up to a 4.62. he also has an incredible 10 yard split for that time (1.56) which means he gets up to top speed quickly but doesn’t have elite speed. however, he might have just enough straight line speed to play that kind of role.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
The more I think about this idea the more I like it. Could be a great way to improve our run defense on the early downs, especially if we have a very good Free Safety (read: Eric Berry) who the coaches are comfortable leaving in cover 1 or cover 3 shell.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
I don’t think Mangini would like it. He likes disguise and multiplicity, and putting Maiava in the game as a true box safety would not only give away our MOFC shell, it would limit what we could do.
If we left Elam deep and put Berry (or similar athlete) in the box, they could still get back to play MOFO.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Yeah, but on some downs when you need or want a true box safety you could bring in maiava as part of a sub package. Now you can go ahead and draft a smaller, faster safety and sub him in when you want to show MOFO in passing situations. We need to find a role for Maiava and I think he could see the field when the Browns want 8 in the box.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
Then you would be tipping your hand before you even lined you defense up.
That is what Rufio was referencing. Mangini and Ryan have shown that they prefer to keep their defense on the low.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 24, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, thank you.
If Maiava is only on the field as a Safety when you put 8 in the box and play with 8 in the box, then the second he comes on the field the offense knows what defense the Browns will play. That’s a big disadvantage for us.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
OSU’s SLB needs to be a strong, physical player (Spitler last year). I believe the star is in place of their WLB/Nickel CB, while they take their SLB off the field in (some) Nickel situations. So this past year, Hines would have gone on the field in place of Spitler, while Homan and Rolle shift.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
oh. I thought the Star was in place of the WLB/Nickel.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
The playbook I have is from 02, and the terminology is a little odd.
From my memory and clips I could find on youtube, Homan (usually ROLB) shifts to being the LOLB of the two, Rolle (usually MLB) is the right of the two, and Hines (*) comes in to the game in the place of Spitler (usually LOLB). The star usually plays on the right side of the formation, but that depends on what the offense does.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
You definitely have more knowledge on what OSU runs than me anyways. I didn’t know which OLB it was. I read (I think on tBBC) that it was more of the SLB (at least some of the guys who played “star” were former SLBs) position. I could be wrong though. I understand the concept of the position but not all the exact specifications.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Gocong would start on the OUTSIDE. he was a DE in college. He became an OLB in a 4-3 in the pros. Philly does blitz often for a 4-3 so I am guessing they wanted more of a DE/OLB hybrid for their SAM. I do believe however his skill set fits a 3-4 better than a 4-3.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
so projected starting Lineup(?):
Gocong
Fujita
D’Quell
Matt Roth
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
I think so. I don’t mind that. Bowens would be the 5th LB and he can play inside/outside.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Our large, versatile outside backers who can drop down and play DE combined with the Hybrid Kaluka Maiava makes me think Rob Ryan wants to run the bear front quite a bit. This pleases me.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
I wonder where he learned that scheme?
I think if he starts using KM in coverage more, it could be like the OSU defense.
OSU runs a 4-3/3-4 hybrid. They have a guy like Thad who sometimes is standing up and sometimes is in a 3 point stance from what I have seen…kind of like sergio kindle at texas. However, the browns would run a more traditional 3-4 than tOSU. however, with big OLBs, I can see the occasional down in the 4-3. our OLBs truly could play DE in the pros and are not “tweeners” but true DEs moved to the outside (like a jason taylor in Miami for a yr or two).
If they use maiava in the “star” role which he has the capabilities to maybe do, it would be an interesting D. but the star role isn’t an every down role either. it is good against passing teams b/c it is a LB who plays coverage like a safety.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Gocong stinks...
I’ll do cartwheels if we can get a 4 for him. In his 3 years in Philly, just ONE big play comes to mind. One. That’s just unacceptable for a linebacker. Maybe a 3-4 is a better fit for his skill set, maybe not. But he was basically useless in Philly.
He was a 4-3 DE at a D-1AA school going to a 4-3 team that played him at SAM. in a way, he performed admirably for where he was put.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Perhaps the Eagles asked too much by introducing him to a new position...
But it still doesn’t change the fact that he was a major liability in the Eagles defense. Again, maybe he’ll be better in a 3-4, I don’t know. But he was by far and away the worst starter on the Eagles D, before he lost his job that is.
yes.
If you played Mike patterson at MLB how would he do? Just wondering.
Gocong is perfect for a 3-4 scheme and the few games I watched the eagles he did make some plays.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I don't mean to be the turd in the punchbowl. I really don't...
But you’re taking to an Eagles fan here, and not to sound like a douche, but I know a lot more about the Eagles (and Chris Gocong) than you. From what I’ve seen of him in 3 years, he’s a backup NFL linebacker, at best.
well…I talked to eagles fans that weren’t douches and were objective and not swayed by their emotions like you are.
This was their assessment. Decent at blitzing the QB. Solid against the run. A major liability in coverage.
you have something different that isn’t being a douche?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Haha, totally unemotional here. I’m not sure what your Eagle fan friends were talking about when referring to his blitzing ability. He had 4 sacks in 3 years. He was OK against the run… I’ll give him that. And as noted, he was very much indeed a major liability in coverage – Actually, the word that comes to mind is “abysmal.”
I’m not sure why you’re defending the guy so vigorously. He’s not even a Brown yet.
bross, there is no reason to attack a visiting poster who is offering reasonable analysis of players on his own team.
yeah. that was out of line.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
This isn’t the first time you’ve done this, either. Don’t let it happen again.
by Buckeye Brad on Mar 24, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
or are you right and the multiple eagles fans I talked to wrong?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
If the multiple Eagles fans you talked to think he was a good player in Philly, then yes, they’re very much wrong.
I’m staying out of this argument, I would just like to say thank you for not using the subject line.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 23, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t believe how many posters from other sites come here and either don’t notice or don’t care that no on else is using the subject line
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 23, 2010 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Did he flash any potential when/if he was asked to rush the passer?
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 23, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
First of all, let me say that I like your usage of the word “flash.” A lot of times fans like us will give young players a pass for not contributing early in their careers, citing the widely accepted mantra of “You have to give a player 3 years before you pass judgment on them.” While I agree with that to some extent, at the very least I want to see some “flashes” of real ability so I can at least get a bit of a window in what that player will be when he matures into a bona fide NFL player.
With Gocong, I simply haven’t seen those “flashes.” He was drafted with the reputation of being able to get to the QB – He set a record for the most sacks in a single season at Cal Poly SLO (D2) with something like 24 sacks, or some ridiculous number like that, but I never really saw much of it in his play in Philly. I noted above that I can only recall one big play in his entire career in Philly. And while I may agree that a 3-4 might be a better fit for his skill set, I also believe that a true talent will find a way to make some things happen, even if they’re not put in the perfect circumstances to succeed.
Thanks for stopping by and giving us some info on a possible future Brown.
Despite what you may have been told, no one here will know as much about Gocong as you seem to do.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 24, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
The 2012 conditional pick for Quinn could be as high as a three:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/24/browns-could-get-third-rounder-for-quinn/
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
before I was ok with the trade. if that pick turns into a third that would be outstanding
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 24, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he would at least have to win the starting job from KO.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I wouldn’t.
If he does do well, it’ll be because he’s under one of the better QB coaches in the league and playing in a system he’s familiar with and has excelled in. That wasn’t happening here.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
Not bad.
Anyone else notice that the Browns have already acquired extra picks in the next TWO drafts?
As much as I liked the Holmgren move, these trades for future picks have Heckert’s finger prints all over them, and I love this thinking. I have a sneaky feeling that we may look back in 5-7 years and decide that Heckert, not Holmgren was the big get this past off-season.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 24, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
The trading for future picks is brilliant.
I also am liking that the war room seems to have thought about packaging some of those 3rds to move up in the draft. I would not be upset if we moved up to get one of the three players I really like.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Alex Brown
Anyone got any thoughts on picking him up?
I’m not convinced by our options at DE, and for a low round pick or free agency we might get someone who can contribute immediately.
(seemed appropriate to use the subject line in this instance)
"The Braylon vaccine- one jab and you'll never catch anything ever again"
Alex brown is okay. there may be better options out there though. He is an OLB though in our scheme, though I see us needing someone there too. He is a solid pass rusher and from what I found, surprisingly good against the run and a hard worker.
I just don’t know if Brown would fit a 3-4 Defense. He is 30 and has never played in one. Even with veterans (especially with some veterans) there is a learning curve switching systems. Kampman never felt comfortable in the 3-4 when he played it in green bay when i saw him play.
I would rather get a guy who has played in a 3-4 Defense before. a guy like that would make an immediate impact. the only DEs on the market are over 30 anyways and are more like 1-2 year options. if that is the case, I want someone who will be productive right away and I am not sure brown will be. I would rather get a Derek Burgess, a Jason Taylor, or a Greg Ellis.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I guess so. He would have had the size to play 3-4 DE 10 years back… now they’re all over 300lbs!
I think I’m only really happy with the sort of 2-gap 3-4 we’re running if you have a beast at weakside OLB in the Lawrence Taylor mode. Generally I’m a 4-3 fan- Gibbs era (first era!) Redskins to be precise
Go Seneca!
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