2010 DBN Big Board-Top 5
by rufio on Mar 25, 2010 5:43 AM EDT
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PrintDue to a survey malfunction, I was only able to count the first 100 votes (despite being able to collect more than 100 votes). In the interest of time before the draft, I would like to continue anyway.
After 100 votes, our Big Board looks like this:
1. Eric Berry, S, Tennessee--422 total points.
2. Joe Haden, CB, Florida--226 total points.
3. Ndamukong Suh, DL, Nebraska--202 total points.
4. Sam Bradford, QB, Oklahoma--132 total points.
5. Gerald McCoy, DL, Oklahoma--80 total points.
Players recieved 5 points for a 1st overall ranking, 4 for a 2nd and so on.
Berry received 61 top rankings, Suh was second with 21.
On to the 6th through 10th positions on our DBN Big Board! I will need to re-do the survey once it fills up with 100 votes, so please remember to only vote once.
And if anyone knows where I can make forced ranking surveys such as this one that allow users to collect and view unlimited responses, please let me know so I don't have to make several copies of the same survey for every draft board.
As always, if there are players you would like me to add to the next survey please discuss them below.
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Umm, Haden scored higher than Suh? Name recognition effect?
Brady Quinn will never be a good quarterback for the Browns.
Florida Effect?
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 25, 2010 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m guessing a lot of lurkers or new posters have just seen a lot of talk on DBN about Haden and very little about Suh, therefore Haden should be higher than Suh. I just didn’t realize so many people would fail to realize the reason we never discuss Suh is that he’s the one player for which there is not a singular chance in hell he falls to 7.
Brady Quinn will never be a good quarterback for the Browns.
I ranked them according to what I thought would be available for us, therefore no Suh, Bradford, G McCoy.
I ranked them based on availability as well
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
You did it wrong then.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 25, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
It should be done according to who you would pick if everyone on that list above were available.
So if we were looking for the “best player available”, we could simply look at the guy highest on our list who is available, and that would be him. So the draft board should be a list of how good the players are, while the actual draft would tell us who was available.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
But you also have to take some consideration into need. If Berry is on the board and So is Okung and theoretically Okung is “better” do we take him? I personally wouldn’t.
It shouldn’t all be BPA or Need but a combination of both. It should also include some sense of where a guy will fit onto a team. if Morgan will likely not be a 3-4 OLB, then even if he is the BPA, he might not be the right pick.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
he was just using the example of BPA to better explain the process of a “big board,” where we shouldn’t take into account who would and wouldn’t be available at our pick, just simply rank people in the order you would want them.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 25, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats why we are supposed to make our rankings specific to the Browns.
If you would like for us to draft Okung, rank him high. If you don’t think he is worth is until the second round (because of a lack of need), don’t rank him at all until that time.
If you would like for us to take Suh high, rank him high regardless of whether you think he will be available or not.
Personally, I would easily put Suh in my top 3. I wouldn’t have Okung in my top 10 because I think drafting a RT that high is unnecessary when we have JT. I would have to rank Okung at some point, because I think I would easily pick him if he were to somehow be available with our 2nd round pick.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I agree…
I also agree with Suh that high. I had him #3 when I voted for him, partially because of need. He is probably the best player but not at a huge position of need, and I am not exactly sure if he would be best in a 3-4 (just my opinion)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
6. Iupati
7. D. Morgan
8. Price
9. Bulaga
10. Graham
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 25, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
To quote North Coast Flea:
I don’t like what you are saying, maybe you would be happier cheering for Buffalo.
That is awesome.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 25, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Worse than the first part of last year, mooncamping? Granted, I’m not inspired by Delhomme and Wallace yet, but do you really think so?
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Mar 25, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Here´s my starting list, by attrition, you tell me:
QB Brett Ratliff
FB Lawrence Vickers
HB James Davis
OT Joe Thomas
OG ?
C Eric Steinbach
OG ?
OT Tony Pashos
FL Mike Furrey
WR Mohammed Massaquoi
TE Evan Moore
DT Alex Mack
NG Shaun Rogers
DT Ahtyba Rubin
OLB David Veikune
ILB Matt Roth
ILB Jason Trusnik
OLB Scott Fujita
FS Eric Wright
SS Abe Elam
CB ?
CB ?
Now that offense, might create some spurs of genius, and the defense would crack some heads if they run it right at us. But is it magic. Nope.
by mooncamping on Mar 26, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
You have got to be kidding
I’m thinking Harrison has that RB spot until James can take it from him. Also D’Qwell Jackson would be a starting ILB and the two guys you have slotted as ILB’s will be OLB’s. Other inside likely to be Eric Barton. Eric Wright is a CB, not a FS. I’m not even sure if you’re being serious or not because Alex Mack is a Center, which would be on offense, not a DT… Robaire Smith goes there. Is this guy for real?
I could be wrong, but if I’m not mistaken it’s an old, old wooden ship used during the Civil War era.
2009: Two backups and no true QB. 2010: Umm... crap.
rec rec rec.
That movie should always be green.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 26, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
New nickname….. The Merrimack.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 26, 2010 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
No, of course not, it’s just giving us an idea of what Cleveland’s draft board may look like. Making a list of players, ranked in order of who we want or need most, and as each guy is drafted prior to our pick, he’s scratched off the board. Once the 7 pick rolls around, first guy left on the board we would take. All hypothetical though; the Browns organization won’t likely reference the board we are making to assist them in the draft.
If we are even a blip on their draft radar I would be very surprised.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Maybe a few regimes ago.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Mar 25, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
once again i hope we get a large sample size to compensate for my ignorance.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
I shall not muddy the waters with my own ignorance, which should help.
Someday I’ll learn to care about college ball, really I will. I consider it a moral failing on my part.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Mar 25, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
My problem is that I could do this if there were maybe 3 players, but i can never figure out 4 and 5.
I don’t think I’ll ever care about college football as long as there is NFL football.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 25, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Odrick
I realize we’ve got a lot of wholes to fill, but with our aging and less than productie ends, I think this guy would work out nicely. May be a little undersized, but he has great technique and was a quality DT in college. So while he may not be a guy you spend a 7 pick on, he may be worth trading down for…as you might have noticed by now, I don’t think the Browns need to be at 7 to get the guys they want.
yes. This guy is definitely not worth a 7th pick though. Granted, a lot of the guys I would like the browns to get in the first (that they actually have a chance of getting) they could trade down to get. The earliest I have heard of odrick going so far is to the ravens. that is in the 20s.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Exactly, anyone we have been considering can be picked up after trading down. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to stay at 7. We should either move down and get our guy plus some other pick or player, or move up for Berry.
I personally wouldn’t move up for berry. I dunno, its just me. I want to trade down before I trade up. I wouldn’t object to moving up for berry, but I would rather trade down to get kyle wilson, get another 2nd rounder (or a 3rd and 4th), get a nate allen in the 2nd, and then get tons of guy in the 3rd onward.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
when does it succeed? we are just as bad as florida!
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Nobody is as bad as Florida. At least Ohio drivers don’t habitually drive 50 miles in the left lane at 30 mph with the turn signal blinking. It’s no wonder they can’t get voting right!
we are just as bad as florida! Flo-Rida!
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 25, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
No one is that bad.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 25, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh?
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 25, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
that was one of the funniest comments ever on here, but i can’t figure out why it made me laugh so hard.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 25, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Morgan
Thomas
Pierre-Paul
Iupati
Bryant
Honestly I don’t know much about the mid- first round prospects, and some of these I chose based on what I’ve heard others on here say. But I think my picks are still pretty good.
personally, at least you don’t have JPP #1 out of these guys…the rest are kinda nice though…solid list.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
If JPP’s such a boom/bust, I probably should’ve put him after Iupati then. Whoops. Oh well plenty of votes to set it right.
yeah. its okay. a boom/bust is okay for other teams to take. like the titans or the falcons both need pass rushers and they will not suffer more if they have a first round miss b/c they are already solid teams. however, I don’t think the browns can risk that in this draft.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
did I call him a bust? I said he was a Boom/Bust prospect. No one can deny that is what he is. He has a high ceiling but is very raw. My point is, that a rebuilding team like the browns can’t afford to take a Boom/Bust prospect because of the possible bust factor.
Hypothetically, lets say we take JPP in the first. He turns out to be a complete bust (which isn’t unlikely). We just wasted a draft pick on this guy. Rebuilding teams taking too many boom/bust prospects can set back a franchise.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
My fault, didn’t read it right. Just saw bust and commented on that. Still don’t you think anybody has that potential though? I mean no one is a lock.
oh obviously no one is a lock. you seem to be misunderstanding Boom/Bust and why I want to avoid it a lot.
All I am saying is that it is a risk/reward scenario. every draft pick has risk. however, when you are a team like the browns you cannot afford to make as many risks as lets say a New England or Baltimore, or other more stable franchises. Because of this, I do not want the browns to draft JPP. He could be a great player but he is very raw and on the risk/reward scale, he might have one of the highest rewards, but maybe the highest risk in the first round.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I get the idea, I simply misread it the first time. I know what you mean, but don’t know how you can call a guy a boom/bust when virtually everyone falls into that category; you never know what you’re going to get.
there is risk to everyone, sure. the differences are in degree of risk. For example, we can be fairly certain Suh will be a good-to-great defensive lineman. he’s got a high ceiling and a fairly high basement as well. JPP has just as high of a ceiling, but a much lower basement.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 25, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
You forgot the word hog.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 25, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
dammit!
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 25, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I realize this, but how many guys can be put in that type of category? Of the guys we are considering at pick 7, assuming Berry is gone, who wouldn’t be a boom/bust? Sure Suh may be a safer pick, but when you’re looking Haden, JPP, Morgan and so on, these are all guys that could bust in the NFL.
yeah. all these guys could theoretically bust…but we are not talking about what ‘could’ happen, we are talking about managing risk.
JPP is maybe the riskiest prospect because of how extremely raw he is.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Who would you suggest drafting, if you think we need to adress the pass rush before finding someone in the secondary?
I think we don’t need pass rush as badly as we need secondary…I never said I thought we needed to address the pass rush. Now that Wimbley is gone, we could use to address it, but our secondary is much more of a dire need. our secondary is falling apart, whereas if you take out wimbley’s sacks, we are still top half in the league in sacks.
We could get someone in later rounds to get to the QB too and there are guys to be gotten. we can also go out and get a guy like a Chris Gocong who heckert drafted and mangini coveted.
Here are some Free Agents too that although some may be a little aged, can provide what wimbley provided
-Greg Ellis (15 sacks last 2 yrs)
-Derrick Burgess (inconsistent last year but excelled in the 2nd half of the season…first year in a 3-4, has 3-4 experience)
-Jason Taylor (7 sacks last year and still getting more experienced in the 3-4)
You see, we don’t have to get a pass rusher in the first round at all.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Bross, I don’t mean to beat a dead horse here or anything, but can you please make a second effort to limit the amount of text you post (both in comment numbers and comment length)? I don’t say this to be a jerk, and if I’m the only one that feels this way I’ll shutup, but I find myself skipping most of your posts just because I can’t stomach reading any more from the same author.
Brevity, my friend, is the soul of wit. It also prevents comment saturation.
2009: Two backups and no true QB. 2010: Umm... crap.
by danvail on Mar 26, 2010 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, it’s too much, too often.
Z button is my friend when i see his avatar.
Fooootball has been beary beary good to me.
This is my exact feeling.
Z button trumps Bross.
…No offense Brossy.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 26, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
bross09 – 4593 comments in 7 months of membership. that’s about 656 comments per month. average of 21 comments per day, every day. making 21 comments every single day is too much.
this doesn’t even take into account how many words each comment contains, or the relevance. i’ve said before, and will say again bross, you’ve brought some good stuff to the site; and it isn’t like none of us ever make any pointless comments; it’s just time to listen to what everyone is trying to tell you.
He didn’t post much before January. It’s closer to 1500 per month and 50 per day.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 26, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Right. And the problem is that so many of his comments repeat the same thoughts over and over again.
by Buckeye Brad on Mar 26, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Or beat dead horses after he’s said he’s done.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Or make up ton of crap with never a credible source of information.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 26, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I have 9600 comments and I’ve been part of LGT since 2006 (although I really didn’t start posting much until 2007), so he has about half as many comments in the past 3 months as I’ve made in the past 3 years. I wish I had his amount of free time.
by Buckeye Brad on Mar 26, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I have like 3,800 comments since September but a lot of them are from game threads.
If I post too much someone tell me haha.
I post too much, so I can’t say anything.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
You’re fine rufio.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 26, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
You comment it spurts, when I hit Z and I stuble on my first Rufio comment of the day I go =D because I know there’s a stream of Rufio afterward.
Take that as a friend please.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 27, 2010 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
You comment it spurts
This should be your signature.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 27, 2010 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I meant in*
But I don’t get the joke. Should I turn my sex joke filter off perhaps? I’m seriously clueless.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 27, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Sounds like a sex joke to me, but my mind is always in the gutter.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 28, 2010 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions
A lot of the guys I like to turn into 3-4 OLBs shouldn’t be picked until later (after 10) IMO.
I like Hughes, Kindle, Graham, JPP, Selvie, Thad Gibson, Eric Norwood, and maybe Worilds to be able to make the transition. Obviously, not all of those guys should be first rounders.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I love Norwood.
Think he will be a very good pro.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 25, 2010 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I will have to disagree and say Graham and JPP will be better off at DE.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 25, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
JPP has a bigger chance than the other 2 of being a bust IMO. He has great physical talent, but he only played one year at D-1, and he didn’t put up amazing stats. I believe college production tells us a lot about a guy’s ability to rush the passer, and this guy simply hasn’t shown he can do it.
The other guys have shown the ability to excel at their positions in college and also possess the physical tools to translate that to the NFL. JPP hasn’t proven he can play football at an above average level yet.
Fun fact: ESPN has Morgan listed as a CB
http://espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=232238
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 25, 2010 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Does anyone have a Birth date on JPP yet?
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 25, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
not that I’ve seen.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 25, 2010 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
at the risk of starting another wikipedia conversation, they have it listed as unknown:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Pierre-Paul
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 25, 2010 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I find it very weird that a DOB cannot be found.
Again, I heard a rumor awhile back that JPP is somewhere around the 26 YO range. This is a pretty good source, that looks to be right again.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 25, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually did a fan post on mockingthedraft about it.
we found 2050, 1968, and a couple other funny ones. however someone found a USF website called bullspen that had it.
Print Page – The Stampede on the NFL Draft
Date of Birth: 03.06.87. Height: 6040. Weight: 252 40 T: 4.70 ….. CBS’ Charley Casserly predicts that USF DE Jason Paul-Pierre will be the "fastest riser" …
thebullspen.com/index.php?action=printpage;topi
So he is 23. Its not incredibly old for a prospect, but it is considering he is a junior.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I need something more concrete than that.
Not saying it isn’t true, but I need something official.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 25, 2010 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree.
I am not even claiming it is true. this is just the best I have been able to come up with. the 26 YO thing is a very likely possibility, if that is true, he might not have as much incredible upside…granted upside and age shouldn’t matter a ton (but some). Akoye has been a bust so far. I felt he was drafted too high, a lot b/c of how young he was.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Okoye is 22. I think he still has a bright future.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 25, 2010 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d trade Rogers for Okoye straight up.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
that is funny.
He showed the ability occasionally, but he was widly inconsistent. He didn’t even pressure the QB or get a tackle in the WVU game…and that was probably the best RT he went up against all year (selvish capers, projected in the 4th round-ish)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
JPP beat a lot of tackles when I watched him. Whether or not that showed up in the stat sheet, I have no idea. I was watching USF games to look at Selvie, but JPP kept being the one to get pressure.
I’m not saying he did great this year, but I would love to hear what someone at FO has to say about him.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
yes.
I saw some games where he was great, but I saw some games where he got shut down. He did great against cincy although he never got the sack. However the Tackle he was going against was 255 pounds.
I didn’t see many games with him, I admit. However the ones I saw, he had some flashes but I wouldn’t call him a first round talent from what i saw. Just the inconsistencies. He would flash brilliance on one play then I wouldn’t see that brilliance the rest of the quarter.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I think of a boom or bust pick like this:
In five years we can look back and say that he is either the best player that came out in that draft or what the hell were the Browns thinking?
I don’t see a middle ground. No pass rusher has the tools that JPP does, I would just be much happier with Morgan. More of a sure thing.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 25, 2010 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
this is a much better/shorter way of saying what i meant.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 25, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
you seem to keep jusifying him.
yes OBVIOUSLY every prospect has some boom or bust capability. Like I just said, he might have one of the biggest booms, but he also has maybe the biggest risk.
The thing is, with a guy like Derrick morgan or Brandon Graham at least you know what you are getting. these guys played multiple years, starting in D-1 Football, both in BCS conferences. both of these guys made plays every game, produced on the field, and were an asset to their team.
none of this can truly be said about JPP. He didn’t produce every game. there were a few where he completely disappeared from the stat sheet, not even recording tackles. He would flash brilliance on one play and get a sack and then get dominated the rest of the game. He also played only one year of D-1 football, playing 2 years in JC schools. He also didn’t even pick up football until I believe his Jr or Sr year of HS. He went up against RTs (usually the weaker pass blockers) and was solid but unspectacular overall.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Ok, but how do you figure Morgan isn’t just as big a risk. Who’s to say he can make the transition to OLB. I’m not trying to say you are wrong, I just think that most of the guys we are seriously considering have a significant chance of busting, just as JPP might.
Will Morgan Definitely make the transition to OLB smoothly? NO
Will JPP though either? No.
AG7, everyone in the draft has a significant chance of Busting. just like everyone has a significant chance of getting into an accident while driving.
However, the guy who is cutting people off, changing lanes without looking, and swerving, he is MUCH more likely to get into an accident…why? he is taking more risks. He is riskier.
Obviously no one in the draft is a lock. no one ever is. Everyone is risky but it is on a scale. Do you want high risk or low-moderate risk. JPP is somewhat like the driver in the example I used though maybe not as risky. Very few things in life are “risk free”.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I don’t know why you seem so set on me thinking we need to take a pass rusher there.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
“but still, a great pass rush can cover up deficiencies in the secondary, whereas without a pass rush, even good secondaries don’t do well.” It made me think you wanted us to draft a OLB or lineman
I will say it.
We should always take a lineman in the first round.*
*Unless a QB is needed.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 25, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
don’t assume things however. I pointed out that I think we could use pass rush help, and wimbley leaving didn’t help, but there are a lot of guys we can get with the same ability to get to the QB (maybe not wimbley’s exact skill set but someone who is similarly skilled at rushign the passer).
I feel we may have one of the worst, if not the worst Defensive Backfield in the league. I like Wright, but the rest I am not a fan of really. Elam is an average starter, but he got ripped apart, even when QBs had time.
The thing is, the AFC north has evolved in many ways. It is still a tough division, but look at the QBs in the AFC North. a guy like roethlisberger (though I hate him) can evade a good pass rush and if you have a bad defensive backfield, he can still do well when rushed.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
the reason I would feel more confident in morgan is because he has shown he is an above average pass rusher. JPP hasn’t.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 25, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I did see one game where he consistently pressured the QB, but he never got a sack. However, when i watched the tape, I got the guys # that he went against. this guy was a RT who was recruited as a 1-2 star DE. The guy JPP was going against is listed at 250-255 pounds and is 6’2. JPP is bigger than that lineman…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Morgan has a more well rounded game. He has different pass rush moves, while JPP seems to rely on speed and quickness.
Morgan is MUCH better against the run.
As for Morgan being able to be a OLB, I think he will struggle with the coverage aspect. But that isn’t the worst thing. A coaching staff can “cover” for these lack of skills. How many times do you see DeMarcus Ware covering RB’s or TE’s?
It is possible that Morgan is a bust, but IMO, the very worst case scenario for Morgan is that he is a great run defender and a so-so pass rusher. Something like a Mike Vrabel. Best case scenario is that he is a Willie McGinnest.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 25, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree. I look at morgan and he truly reminds me a lot of a Willie McGinnest. He is a guy with good physical skills, can stuff the run, has good pass rush moves, and can get to the QB.
Vrabel is a good example too of a worst case…maybe also a smaller, quicker charles grant (though maybe if grant was quicker he could get to the QB better)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
ow many times do you seeDeMarcus WareShawne Merriman covering RB’s or TE’s?
I swear, in SD either Merriman is rushing the passer, or both Merriman and Shaun Phillips are rushing the passer.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Also, the more I watch tape of them, the more I like Brandon Graham over Morgan.
Both are great with their hands when engaged. Both are very good at the POA for a 3-4 OLB. But in addition to the questions about his agility and ability to drop into coverage, Morgan’s closing burst scares me.
With Morgan, you see him rip past the OL, then steadily make his way to the ball carrier. With Graham, you see him rip past the OL, then accelerate through the ball carrier. I think this makes a big difference, turning failed rushes into hurries, and hurries into sacks.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
truth be told i haven’t done much homework on graham.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 25, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t let bross totally influence your board.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 25, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
haha…you think the browns should take this guy? I mean he is just such a sure thing.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
No
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 25, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
then why comment when I say he is risky?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Saying I don’t think the Browns should draft him and saying he isn’t risky are two different things.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 25, 2010 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
(sorry…browns not taking him is opinion)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
So is him being risky.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 26, 2010 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Morgan would be a nice pick, but apparently some on here think he can’t make the transition to OLB…I don’t know ifI buy that though. there is no way that we get Clausen though. Regardless of whether you think Holmgren stated his dislike in him as a smokescreen, too many needs on defense right now.
here is no way that we get Clausen though
That shouldn’t matter for the big board. Just rank the five best players, adjusting for the Browns’ needs if you’d like.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
True, even looking at it that way I don’t see him as being top 5 for our board, but that’s a matter of opinion.
I’m not sure how, but it needs to be made clear that this does not take availability into account.
Maybe just do it Bart Simpson style at the beginning of the post:
This does not take availability into account. Rank the players as if they were all available. This does not take availability into account. Rank the players as if they were all available. This does not take availability into account. Rank the players as if they were all available. This does not take availability into account. Rank the players as if they were all available. This does not take availability into account. Rank the players as if they were all available. This does not take availability into account. Rank the players as if they were all available. This does not take availability into account. Rank the players as if they were all available. This does not take availability into account. Rank the players as if they were all available.
2009: Two backups and no true QB. 2010: Umm... crap.
It’s made like this because you never know who’s going to get drafted. Someone could pull an Al Davis and grab Earl Thomas instead of Eric Berry, so though it’s unlikely Berry will be available at 7, you put him high on the board anyway.
I know that. I want everyone else to know that as well, so we don’t end up with a big board that would make an NFL scout classify Browns fans as somewhere between moron and dead. DBN is better than that big board suggests.
2009: Two backups and no true QB. 2010: Umm... crap.
Yes, absolutely, I will try to clarify this in the next one. Thanks for the wording (which I will now copy and paste…muahaha)(/evil)
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I thought the wording was clear (or intuitively obvious at least) the first time. The NFL people may just think we can’t follow directions, which is infinitely better than thinking we don’t know football …
by Nuclear Power on Mar 26, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
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