Big Board Reaction: Ndamukong Suh or Joe Haden?
Let's say that hypothetically, the player Cleveland Browns fans seem to want most, Tennessee S Eric Berry, suffers a fluke injury prior to the draft that takes him out of contention for being a high draft pick. Now, imagine it is draft day. With the Rams on the clock first, they draft Sam Bradford.
As Browns fans eagerly await for the team's seventh overall pick to arrive, we hear an announcement in the draft room that "there has been a trade." Before someone officially makes an announcement, we then hear the radio guys say, "all we know is that the logo of the Cleveland Browns just flashed up on the screen."
How would I feel about that? In the heat of the moment, I would be buzzing because pretty much everything that happens on draft day draws a squealing reaction, even if it's a measly 6th-round draft pick trade. In that limited span of time that the Browns would have to make their pick, I'd eagerly anticipate the announcement. Out walks commissioner Roger Goodell.
"With the second pick in the 2010 NFL Draft, the Cleveland Browns select...CB Joe Haden, Florida.
Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh?
According to our first draft board, that's what the Browns would be doing, and there's definitely something wrong with that in my book. Can we assume that the order of the voting was just an anomaly for a few reasons:
- People assumed Ndamukong Suh would be gone, and hence ranked him lower?
- People thought we were picking who we thought the Browns would end up drafting seventh overall?
If you don't recall, this is what the top five slots of our draft board look like:
- Eric Berry, S, Tennessee--422 total points.
- Joe Haden, CB, Florida--226 total points.
- Ndamukong Suh, DL, Nebraska--202 total points.
- Sam Bradford, QB, Oklahoma--132 total points.
- Gerald McCoy, DL, Oklahoma--80 total points.
The draft board should be a combination of need and "the best player available." A better way of thinking of this would be, "if the Browns had the first overall pick in the draft, who would you take?" Throughout the voting process, you'd continually assume, "ok, if the player I ranked first is gone and we are drafting second overall, who would I draft next?"
We'd probably be a laughingstock for passing over Suh for Haden, and I assume most of you agree with me based on a few of the confused comments in the results post. I wanted to bring it up again just to have a discussion dedicated to this topic though, because to me, it looks like a big flaw right at the top of our draft board.
So, if the Browns are on the clock and both Suh and Haden are there, who do you take? Do you think the draft board should be amended by what I'm calling an anomaly, or am I just misguided in my belief of what we would do in that situation (note: rufio has no obligation to change the draft board; I'm just bringing it up for the sake of sparking a discussion).
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People didn’t understand the concept of the draftboard, not that I’m surprised. Hence, the ranking of Haden 2nd. I believe my vote went Suh, Berry, Bradford, McCoy, Haden.
As Browns fans eagerly await for the team’s seventh overall pick to arrive, we hear an announcement in the draft room that “there has been a trade.” Before someone officially makes an announcement, we then hear the radio guys say, “all we know is that the logo of the Cleveland Browns just flashed up on the screen.”
This reminds me of the Thomas/Quinn draft; I was in the cellar of Great Lakes Brewing Company for their 2nd annual “Draught Party” (also the last, thanks to disinterest and Savage trading away the following year’s first-day picks), and the various craft brews were flowing smoothly by the pitcher. I would have left after the 12th pick or so, content with Thomas at 3, if it weren’t for the freakshow that was Brady Quinn in the green room. I can’t tell you the excitement and shock that was felt when, due to the noise in the brewpub, the only way we realized the Browns traded up into the 1st round was the red “trade” signal that ran across ESPN’s bottom ticker, and then the Browns helmet taking over the lower-left hand corner of the screen.
It was quite an exciting moment, and friends, both Browns fans and other, sent me texts that were borderline congratulatory.
Oh, how 3 years can change things. Regardless, this paragraph made me think of that moment, and the hope and optimism that the draft can bring.
You are reading my signature.
This reminds me of the Thomas/Quinn draft; I was in the cellar of Great Lakes Brewing Company for their 2nd annual "Draught Party"
My dumb ass cousin decided that this would be his wedding day. My brother and I are in my car outside the church listening to the radio in full tuxes.
They announced the Quinn trade and pick right before we had to get out and head towards the church. My brother and I are jumping like little kids into each others arms all the way down Peachtree St to the church. People were honking at us. A homeless dude outside the church asked if we were about to get married.
I don’t remember if we said no or not. That may be the happiest day for me as a Browns fan in quite sometime.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 26, 2010 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
That was a great day. I was with a group of people as well, and we all celebrated when we got the news through text message. Overall, the draft is probably one of the funnest days of the year for me, going back to childhood memories of playing a “dollar a pick” game with my family for whomever could make the correct picks ahead of time.
I was at the winking lizard with my Canton Backers when they made the trade to get Quinn. The place erupted as if we won
the super bowl, high fives all around, very exciting. Draft day is fun and gives hope for the future.
I was at the inaugural Toronto Football Club game in the MLS. The mayor was directly behind me. I was receiving text updates and he asked me to keep him updated. Sadly (and predictably) he is a Bills fan.
Catch the Taste
by Brown's Jays on Mar 28, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
On Thomas: I was like Amen! we FINALLY invested in the core of the offence, keeping the QB from an early retirement. On Quinn: (I lived in Dolphin country) and wished to heaven that Miami would select him. They didn’t and things started to look real pathetic for Quinn. I think the Browns FO felt sorry for him. The way OSU clobbered him in that bowl, I’m suprised so many people here were high on him at all. BTW I’m a gator alum, my cousin got me a #2 jersey in 99. It was a sad moment.
by dawggonehawaiian on Mar 27, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Beast, not bust.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 27, 2010 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
After too many DL bust, going with a true shut down corner with this pick.
by kamasutraman_007 on Mar 27, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
so you would reach for a corner rather than get the most talented player in the draft just because you believe he is more likely to bust?
Yes some DTs have busted in the past. Question: How many of them had the physical skills of Suh? How many of them put up the college production at DT that Suh Did? How many of the DT busts were heisman finalists? The answer to all three really is none. Suh is an extremely unique player that comes along once in a generation.
After so many CBs going bust in the top 10 picks, shouldn’t we avoid them all together too?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
If Suh is still there at 7, we need to get him. But do we trade up for him? probably not, but I wouldn’t mind. As long as we don’t pick Haden at 7.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 27, 2010 12:01 AM EDT reply actions
Suh, duh, buuuuuuuh.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Mar 27, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why Suh, if we have Shaun Rogers?
Why Haden, if he should a) be a safety and b) we have Abe Elam at strong safety and Eric Wright, who should be at free safety.
if we have Shaun Rogers
Don’t you mean Alex Mack?
2009: Two backups and no true QB. 2010: Umm... crap.
Damn, should have said that I wanted to draft Suh as a fullback because of his fantastic ass.
2009: Two backups and no true QB. 2010: Umm... crap.
by danvail on Mar 27, 2010 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Well, yeah, you do have a point there, in mooncamping´s world those are our Nose Guards.
by mooncamping on Mar 28, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Jimmy doesn’t like misunderstandings.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 28, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
we should add this to the DBN glossary
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 28, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
La la la la…….
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 28, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Alex Mack to Nose Guard. Ahtyba Rubin outside defensive tackle, alternating sides with outside defensive tackle Shaun Rogers , who will create imbalances.
by mooncamping on Mar 29, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Honestly I think we should do it over again, if Rufio or someone else is willing to re-do the post and subsequent work. I’m curious as to A) how many here would really take Berry over Suh and B) how Bradford would play into it in our collective minds.
2009: Two backups and no true QB. 2010: Umm... crap.
Chris, scrap this voting idea. You and the minions get together and writeup a DBN big board and then post it, and we will discuss.
The idea is to get all Browns fans opinions.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 27, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I don’t think the idea should be scraped at all, and after the clarification from the first chart, I anticipate the next ones to flow a little better.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Mar 27, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly I was thinking about something like this but I didn’t have the time/forgot to put it together.
Maybe for next year we could have a few regulars (~10? ~5?) commit to doing a panel where they make a board together or where they put up their own personal board and give some reasoning as to why they ranked players the way they did.
Then, everyone can vote like we do now or we could do a “what did they get wrong?” poll.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I like the entire board voting idea, but it worked better when we had a smaller group last year because there were less “drive-bys.” Perhaps just do a protracted explanation before we begin next season?
Am I one of the “drive bys”?
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 27, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
The Broncos haven’t galloped since they had Terrell Davis.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 28, 2010 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I think of myself as more of a “doesn’t say anything unless its witty, or has something to say about said subject” but I’m always here reading. Does that make me a regular?
by BrownDawg1409 on Mar 28, 2010 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions
dude that was the stupid shit i’ve read in awhile … you don’t take haden at the spot bc u dont trade up to get the cb that will be available at number 7 – when u want to spark a conversation about something make it make sense , did you even think bout what u just wrote? it would have been one thing if u wrote if we traded up who would you want berry or the DT monster from nebraska … but haden seriousy WTF ius wrong with u ?? thats not even possible a trade up for haden … give up ur sports talk bro
you posted this at 10:42 in the morning, so i’ll assume you’re not drunk, just stupid.
there’s no way you could have formed that asinine run-on of a paragraph if you had read the entire article, specifically this:
According to our first draft board, that’s what the Browns would be doing, and there’s definitely something wrong with that in my book.
You are reading my signature.
We don’t take people with poor grammar skills serious around here. Shape up.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 27, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Nor do we take them seriously.
"...maybe this year, there's no gorilla" - YoDaddyWags
by woodsmeister on Mar 27, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Isn’t that what I said?
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 27, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s the same thing. Don’t try and diss me like you know more than I do. Shut up.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 27, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
“Stupidface!”
2009: Two backups and no true QB. 2010: Umm... crap.
by danvail on Mar 27, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
“DooDoo Head!”
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 27, 2010 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
BitchNuts!
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 27, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
no
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 29, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Ten2? Are you a Syndric Steptoe fan?
(Which reminds me — why is steptoe still listed in the roster sidebar? Did we resign him?)
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 27, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I almost said that months ago, but I left it alone. haha
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 27, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s funny how you make yourself like like a jackass; you ask if I even thought about what I just wrote, when in reality it seems like you didn’t even think about the premise. All you saw was “Suh vs. Haden,” if you had actually read the content of the post to understand I was make a point about the meaning of the draft board, all you would’ve needed to say then was, “I agree.”
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Mar 27, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
*making
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Mar 27, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
You stuttered in type, that is epic “like like a jackass”. Yes I know it was a typo of look, but it’s still funny.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 28, 2010 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Joe Thomas has nothing on Chris.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 28, 2010 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know whether to rec of flag this
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 28, 2010 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s quite a dilemma, isn’t it.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 28, 2010 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions
It really is.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 28, 2010 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Pancakes for everyone
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 28, 2010 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions
In the time it took you to type this out I was pancaked, he told me you are next…..
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 28, 2010 3:04 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I might as well stand in the middle of the street and accept it. There’s no reason to hide.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 28, 2010 4:21 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I actually have a coupon for a free meal at IHOP, so I will be having pancakes today.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 28, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Heh, I was rushing because I was half-way out the door but wanted to throw up a response before I left in the afternoon.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Mar 28, 2010 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d like to leave this guy to the rest of you to straighten out please.
Or I’ll try out my first link here
I hope that works and jeremy takes a minute or two to do a little reading and become a regular contributor around here.
Fooootball has been beary beary good to me.
Thanks, this is the approach I’d usually like to take with new members. I have a feeling I could care less if this guy returned to the site though.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Mar 27, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
This is a prime example why I enjoy DBN so much. I have been reading this blog for a while and comment occasionally, but thoroughly enjoy the conversations. Unlike a lot of other websites (ESPN especially), the posters here usually take the time to formulate an intelligent and legible discussion that is not completely filled with hate/ignorance/disrespect (subject matter depending of course).
Just a big thanks to the DBN crew and followers for doing it right. GO BROWNS!
by jharbdo on Mar 27, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I guess you’re not talking about me then. :)
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 27, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
We did not know that there was a possibility of Rogers playing defensive end. We usually spend our time discussing knitting and hop-scotch. The Browns thing is just a cover so that the other SBN sites don’t beat us up.
In all seriousness, would you put Suh at nose with Rogers at DE?
I mean, Suh is a monster at the POA, but he isn’t even 310lbs…you think he should play there over Rogers? I guess Baltimore does something similar with Ngata/Gregg.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I’d mix it up a lot. Move them in and out of various positions on the line. I think a good coordinator could do some major damage like that.
2009: Two backups and no true QB. 2010: Umm... crap.
That’s what I would do too, but I was thinking situationally about downs where you would play your “base” defense.
If we had Rogers, Suh, and Rubin, we could do a lot of stuff. I also think Roth could easily become a 4th part time DL. Versatility, multiplicity.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
following doggrad’s lead I’ll post another link you might find helpful. There’s lots of browns insight on this page I’m sure you’ll want to discuss:
link
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 28, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I wouldn’t be opposed to doing this over again. I take a big chunk of responsibility for a couple of reasons.
1. I am not sure my instructions were totally clear. I have a pretty solid idea of what I think this or any draft board should be, and it was hard for me to find the words to explain something intuitive for me to others in one or two quick sentences.
2. I let Survey Monkey pull one over on me. They allow you to collect unlimited responses to a survey, and we had quite a few. However, they only let you view the first 100 responses. After realizing we had 800+ responses and I only had access to 100 of them, I remembered this was similar to how it was set up last year. Last year, however, the survey closed once it reached 100 votes, so I knew what was going on. This year they want a large chunk of money to show me the data they’ve already collected. I was hoping that the SS of the 100 votes would be able to predict the outcome of all of the votes, but I realize there is a lot of room there to change things. If someone with better knowledge of stats would chime in on this, that would be awesome.
I would have no problem redoing all of this if we think we have time before the draft and want to.
I would also love it if someone had a link to a better survey company that would allow us to do something like this. If I didn’t have to make a new survey for every 100 votes that would be awesome. I’d even be willing to pay a little, but not what SurveyMonkey is asking.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I am a programmer, maybe I can whip up a voting script in PHP/MySQL quickly. I’ll see.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Mar 27, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Suh could be viewed as the mean and a larger sample would move us closer to Suh. I’d be willing to wager that, out of 800 votes, Suh would be ahead of Haden by a large margin.
He’s also the average, the outlier, the medium and the mode.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 28, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
and standard of deviation
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 28, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was going to post something along these lines last night, but decided not too.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 28, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
He is also the square root of all negative numbers
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 28, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
He is also a prime number.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 28, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Joe Thomas is i, for sure. Also e and pi. And any other numbers that are made of letters.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
He is the X,Y, and the Z.
Also, the -2a/b.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 28, 2010 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
He is the Alpa and Omega.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 28, 2010 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Alex Mack is the Beta.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 29, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
To Moon Steinbach’s ass is the Beta.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 29, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we the re-education of the masses, we will have a better gauge of what the fans think.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 27, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
OK, I just spent about 5-6 hours writing a script from scratch equivalent to what SurveyMonkey offers with respect to this poll. I tested it with a small sample and didn’t seem to encounter any bugs, and also I customized it slightly to Browns colors.
We’ll see if it works to rufio’s liking, maybe he can use it for the next poll. If not, at least I have something I can show off to my SBN football colleagues (meaning I could probably set something up for their sites too if they want one).
Free to rufio, $100 to everyone else ;)
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Mar 28, 2010 1:55 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
$100? Just say you’ll make them as many as they want to the first team that takes Delhome from us.
by BrownDawg1409 on Mar 28, 2010 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions
There goes my gas money for the next two weeks.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 28, 2010 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Is Chris really Joe Thomas in disguise?
An alter ego perhaps?
Fooootball has been beary beary good to me.

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