Beat the House: WR Edition
Here are parts 1, 2, and 3. This is the fourth installment of an on-going series: If you are new to the site, please read the prior installments for an explanation of what this is.
He tried everything, but Browns fans still hated him.
This is bross-like length. I apologize ahead of time.
I understand why picking a wide receiver high is a sexy pick. They sell jerseys and they are fun to watch. Throw it deep and let Larry Fitzgerald go get it. Throw a screen to Andre Johnson and watch as he sheds tackles for long gains. I understand why it could be great.
Having a game breaking WR is one of the greatest weapons that a NFL team can have. Ask any coach that has had a motivated Randy Moss. They change the game, even when they aren't being thrown the ball.
Is the risk worth the reward in taking a WR early?
Going back to the '99 draft, there has been 46 WR's taken in the first round, for an average of 4.2 every year. How many of those WR's are worth the pick?
After getting a lot of help from DBN, especially Danvail, we have made some changes in the system. First of all, we have switched to football outsiders for the data. If you haven't been there, you should check them out. They have made my life much easier. We used Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement or DYAR. If you need a breakdown on what that means, here is a link explaining it.
As for the scoring we went with the following:
6 points for Elite (a top 10 rank in DYAR)
3 points for #1 WR (a top 32 rank in DYAR)
1 point for a starter WR (a top 64 rank in DYAR)
So we went back and looked at every WR drafted since '99. We also looked into a draft myth/rumor/common belief, does it really take three seasons to see a WR come into their own? Does a great WR show signs in the first two years?
Wide Receivers taken in the first round ranked by points;
- Reggie Wayne [39 points total, 3 in first two years]
- Tory Holt [35 points total, 7 in first two years]
- Larry Fitzgerald [27 points total, 6 in first two years]
- Andre Johnson [24 points total, 6 in first two years]
- Santana Moss [19 points total, 0 in first two years]
- Plaxico Burress [19 points total, 3 in first two years]
- Lee Evans [14 points total, 4 in first two years]
- Santonio Holmes [13 points total, 6 in first two years]
- David Boston [12 points total, 3 in first two years]
- Javon Walker [12 points total, 3 in first two years]
- Donte Stallworth [12 points total, 4 in first two years]
- Roddy White [10 points total, 0 in first two years]
- Roy E. Williams [10 points total, 2 in first two years]
- Calvin Johnson [8 points total, 7 in first two years]
- Ashley Lelie [8 points total, 4 in first two years]
- Anthony Gonzalez [6 points total, 6 in first two years]
- Michael Clayton [6 points total, 6 in first two years]
- Braylon Edwards [6 points total, 2 in first two years]
- Michael Jenkins [5 points total, 1 in first two years]
- Dwayne Bowe [5 points total, 4 in first two years]
- Koren Robinson [5 points total, 3 in first two years]
- Peter Warrick [4 points total, 0 in first two years]
- Bryant Johnson [4 points total, 0 in first two years]
- Travis Taylor [3 points total, 0 in first two years]
- Rod Gardner [3 points total, 3 in first two years]
- Reggie Williams [3 points total, 0 in first two years]
- Matt Jones [3 points total, 2 in first two years]
- Robert Meachum [3 points total, 0 in first two years]
- Percy Harvin [3 points total, 3 in first season*]
- Jeremy Maclin [3 points total, 3 in first season*]
- Hakeem Nicks [3 points total, 3 in first season*]
- Mark Clayton [2 points total, 1 in first two seasons]
- Kenny Britt [1 point total, 1 in first season*]
- David Terrell [1 point total, 1 in first two seasons]
- Freddie Mitchell [1 point total, 0 in first two seasons]
- Troy Williamson [1 point toal, 1 in first two seasons]
- Troy Edwards [0 points]
- R. Jay Soward [0 points]
- Sylvester Morris [0 points]
- Charles Rogers [0 points]
- Rashaun Woods [0 points]
- Ted Ginn [0 points]
- Craig Davis [0 points]
- Darrius Heyward-Bey [0 points]
- Michael Crabtree [0 points, but was on the verge]
- Mike Williams [0 points]
- Jimmy Smith
- Cris Carter
- Randy Moss
- Isaac Bruce
- Tim Brown
- Marvin Harrison
- Patrick Jeffers
- Marcus Robinson
- Michael Westbrook
- Keyshawn Johnson
- Randy Moss
- Isaac Bruce
- Terrell Owens
- Tory Holt*
- Ed McCaffery
- Amani Toomer
- Rod Smith
- Marvin Harrison
- Derrick Alexander
- Cris Carter
- Marvin Harrison
- Terrell Owens
- Derrick Mason
- Jerry Rice
- Rod Smith
- Tory Holt*
- Jimmy Smith
- David Boston*
- Tim Brown
- Kevin Johnson
- Marvin Harrison
- Amani Toomer
- Hines Ward
- Laverneus Coles
- Joe Horn
- Plaxico Burress*
- Donald Driver
- Jerry Porter
- Dennis Northcutt
- Jerry Rice
- Randy Moss
- Tory Holt*
- Derrick Mason
- Chad Johnson
- Marvin Harrison
- Justin McCareins
- Hines Ward
- Darell Jackson
- Bobby Engram
- Santana Moss*
- Reggie Wayne*
- Musin Muhammad
- Michael Clayton*
- Brandon Stokley
- Joe Horn
- Javon Walker*
- Nate Burelson
- Tory Holt*
- TJ Houshmanzadeh
- Randy Moss
- Steve Smith
- Chad Johnson
- Santana Moss*
- Donald Driver
- Eddie Kennison
- Hines Ward
- Kennan McCardell
- TJ Houshmanzadeh
- Larry Fitzgerald*
- Rod Smith
- Marvin Harrison
- Reggie Wayne* (Think Peyton was good this season?)
- Lee Evans*
- Chad Johnson
- TJ Houshmanzadeh
- Terry Glenn
- Terrell Owens
- Larry Fitzgerald*
- Marques Colston
- Roy E. Williams*
- Randy Moss
- Reggie Wayne*
- Terrell Owens
- Wes Welker
- Marques Colston
- Chad Johnson
- Greg Jennings
- Larry Fitzgerald*
- Andre Johnson*
- Bobby Engram
- Andre Johnson*
- Larry Fitzgerald*
- Roddy White*
- Vincent Jackson
- Steve Smith
- Reggie Wayne*
- Hines Ward
- Antonio Bryant
- Anquan Boldin
- Chad Johnson
- Sidney Rice
- Vincent Jackson
- Wes Welker
- Miles Austin
- Randy Moss
- Reggie Wayne*
- Marques Colston
- Steve Smith NYG
- Hines Ward
- Santonio Holmes*
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Thanks bross. I’ll read the rest tomorrow.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 29, 2010 12:55 AM EDT reply actions
It just seems messed up to me that we can’t account for the WR’s talent (or lack thereof) around them. It would be insanely complex, and probably impossible to account for both defense and QB/OL/Running game but something just feels odd about calling a WR not elite or not starting material or a bust when their QB could be Peyton or David Carr.
The fact that A. Johnson can do what he has done before Schaub/when Schaub is injured is just incredible to me. Likewise with Megatron. And it impresses me a lot less that Colts’ WRs do it. I mean Gonzo has 2 less points than Calvin Johnson…really?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Calvin I think gets dinged for last season in which he was basically injured but still playing the entire season.
Right his year by year ranking goes 52 (rookie), 10 and 61 (last season).
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 29, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Separate comment for separate idea:
Just looking at the numbers from the first rounders, it appears that WRs bust out at a high rate. But it would also be my guess that WRs bust out at a high rate from any round.
If all we have is a bust%, does it really mean anything? Obviously it has big cap implications, especially when talking about the first 10 picks. Is the difference in salary between the 20th and 33rd picks enough to make it worth it to take a shot at a guy in rd2 but not rd1?
What if 1st round WRs bust out at 70%, but 2nd-7th rounds bust out at 80%, 90%, 95%, 98%, 99%, and 99.5%? Is there a “sweet spot” for risk vs. reward? My guess would be 2nd round.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I did a little checking, emphasis on little, but for the second round what I found was also in the 50% round.
I may do a little more work on this.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 29, 2010 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah…thats what I noticed when I looked at this a bit at one point. WRs have a fairly high bust rate wherever they go…but why bust high then? there are a lot of good WRs taken in the 2nd too. even though many might not want us to take WRs in the 2nd after last year, that round might be just as smart…amount of players (% wise) who become elite.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
It’s not just after last year, it’s always been that way.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 29, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Well even at an even bust rate, the first round pick is still inherently more valuable and therefore a bigger risk to lose on a bust.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
You also have to consider how much more money a first rounder makes than a 2nd rounder. To pay a 1st rounder so much money at such a high risk of bust doesn’t mae a whole lot of sense.
Plus WRs make a relatively large salary – so it’s worse to miss on a first round WR than say, a safety or a tackle.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
Right, hence the idea of a “sweet spot”, maybe where WRs bust out at a slightly higher rate than 1st rounders, but cost much less. Risk in the first is inherently higher, what about risk:reward ratio?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Just curious, who was #7 in ’05?
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 29, 2010 10:45 AM EDT reply actions
Are you talking draft selection?
If so, it was Troy Williamson to the Vikes.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 29, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
One of my favorite picks ever for two reasons:
1. My db roommate loved the Vikings (because his dad liked the colors when he was a kid…)
and 2. it made Mel Kiper’s head explode. I can’t remember a pick that came so close to causing a stroke on live television.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
Kiper chastising Colts GM Bill Tobin for taking Marshall faulk and Trev Alberts when Heath Shuler and Trent Dilfer were still on the board.
“Who in the hell is Mel Kiper, anyway? I mean, here’s a guy that criticizes everybody, whoever they take. … And in my knowledge of him, he’s never, ever put on a jock strap. He’s never been a player. He’s never been a coach. He’s never been a scout. He’s never been an administrator. And, all of a sudden, he’s an expert.
“Mel Kiper has no more credentials to do what he’s doing than my neighbor, And my neighbor’s a postman — and he doesn’t even have season tickets to the NFL.”
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 29, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
^Attribution fail. The quote is Tobin’s on air response to Kiper’s criticism.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 29, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Kiper is a nutsack. I don’t listen to anything that plastic Ken Doll says.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 29, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I was talking about the jersey Suck Boy is wearing in the pic. I already found out. Ted Ginn.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 29, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
He did in fact not try everything…
He didn’t try to catch better.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 29, 2010 12:45 PM EDT reply actions
yep. thats what I was thinking too. he tried everything except CATCH THE DAMN BALL!
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Where have we seen that before?
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 29, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
This.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 29, 2010 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we’ll see a sizable improvement from robiskie, but thats mostly based on my gut feeling. I think after a full year of being an NFL player in the same offensive system will be good for him.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 29, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
My gut feeling tells me a breakout season with at least 40 catches and at least 600 yards…but this isn’t based on anything but my gut.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
It feels dumb to call that a “breakout season” but that sounds like about what I’m expecting.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 29, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
After not seeing the field almost at all last year that would sound great to me.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 29, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I looked at that picture and thought, “Who is that?” Then I saw the pic and was like “Is that Ted Ginn?” But the caption about the Browns hating him didn’t make sense.
Then I realized it was Braylon being a smart ass.
I like Ginn the Buckeye. Ginn the Dolphin can suck eggs.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 31, 2010 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions

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