Reboot! DBN Draft Board Try 2
Captain Picard disproves of poor instructions.
Due to confusion, we are hitting Ctrl+Alt+Delete on the 2010 DBN Big Board.
We are starting over using an awesome new script into which Chris poured his blood sweat and tears, and I will try to explain the concept of what we are trying to do in a more clear way. And best of all, thanks to Chris' work, all votes will be collected, tallied, and factored in to the board. It just didn't feel right to start things off by counting less than 1/8th of the votes.
If you don't want to read the rest of this, you can skip to the "Our Draft Board" section below.
Terminology
Draft Board or Big Board
In real teams' war rooms, they probably have a physical board. Through countless hours of discussion, debate, film study, and philosophizing, teams will rank the players in some sort of order. They might simply chart the players from best to worst. They might use some sort of "tiered" system. They might rank all players at all positions. They might rank their needs. They might have several different plans for several different scenarios. (e.g. if Eric Berry is gone at our pick, trade down and wait on a Safety. If he is there, pick him and get other positions later.)
The bottom line is that somehow, someway, teams develop a plan for the draft beforehand so that they don't make multimillion dollar decisions that impact their entire franchise in the pressure-packed environment of the draft. Plan what you can now, make small adjustments and react later. The Big Board is a team's plan.
Need
This is a mostly self explanatory term. "Needs" are positions where teams need to draft new players because the players they already have just don't cut it. Some of the Browns' (mostly agreed upon) needs are CB and S, for example.
Every team has needs, but the questions are:
1. What, exactly, are the Browns' needs?
2. How badly do we need new players at each of those positions?
3. How much of a boost should players get on the draft board because they play a position where we have a need? For example, if Eric Berry and Taylor Mays are gone when the Browns pick at 7, should they pick Nate Allen because he is the best Safety left? Should they turn to another need? Trade back? Take the best player available?
Value
Different people have different views on the value at different positions. For me, value comes down to two things:
1. How big of an impact can a player at a given position have on the game? Bernie19Kosar has some great thoughts on drafting QBs (h/t). A lot of people think that Quarterbacks have a big impact on the game. Some might think players at the Center or Guard positions don't have a very big impact on the game.
2. How rare are good players at a given position? Great quarterbacks, for instance, are extremely rare. A lot of teams seem to be looking for great LTs and NTs too. Will good players at this position come around twice every draft? Once a year? Once every couple of years? Is it worth taking a flier on a player at this position in the first round, or can we wait until later in the draft for a solid player?
Character
Another buzz word this time of year. To me, character can play a big part in deciding whether a player reaches his potential or not. Will he be in and out of jail? Will he be distracted by fame, fortune, etc? Will he be routinely suspended from the NFL? Is he a hard worker who will give effort in practice and the film rooms to improve, or will he take his huge signing bonus and be content? Does he really care about football?
Character may or may not matter to you with regard to the draft. Whether or not it matters and exactly how much it matters should be reflected in your rankings.
Our Draft Board
Our draft board will be a ranking of the players that are draft eligible, from best to worst. It should also take need, value, and character into account--if you think these things should be taken into account at all. If you always want the best player available, just rank them from best to worst.
Instructions
Rank the top five available players. Take talent, value, need, and character into account if you think the Browns should take these things in to account when drafting.
Players will receive 5 points for every first place vote, 4 for every second place, and so on. They will receive 0 points if they are unranked. Total points from all ballots will be added, and the 5 players with the most votes will be taken out of the pool of available players and put up on the big board.
This is not a mock draft.
Don't predict what will happen
Don't think about other teams
Don't worry about who is available. (I will take players out of the vote-able pool once we put them on the board)
Just rank your guys in the order you would like to see them drafted by the Browns.
For instance, I think the top five players purely in terms of talent are:
1. Ndamukong Suh, DT
2. Eric Berry, S
3. Gerald McCoy, DT
4. Sam Bradford, QB
5. Anthony Davis, OT
6. Russell Okung, OT
Because of need, value, and character, my first ballot will look like this:
1. Suh
2. Berry
3. Bradford
4. Earl Thomas
5. Rolando McClain
Please vote only once.
VOTING HAS ENDED. PLEASE VOTE IN THE NEWEST POLL
Using the Scouts Inc. rankings (yes, I am aware of how much you hate Todd McShay) I will compile a pool of 25 draft eligible players. We will take a poll and rank players five at a time. New polls will happen every two days or so until the draft.
If there are players you think I should include in the draft-eligible pool--especially if they aren't coming up in McShay's rankings, let me know and I will put them in for the next poll.
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Comments
Thanks for doing this again, Rufio. And thanks to Chris for writing the script.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
Picard>Kirk
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 29, 2010 7:57 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Wow. Lighten up.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 29, 2010 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Haha good because I was bout to lay the smackdown on you!
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 29, 2010 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions
You mean Battlestar Galactica > Star Trek? I’d tend to agree.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 29, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
A Cleveland Browns game was aired in France, the French surrendered to Joe Thomas just to be on the safe side...
Great sig.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 29, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Joe Thomas > Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny
by BrownDawg1409 on Mar 29, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Best song ever. I so forgot about it!
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 29, 2010 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Trekies > no one
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 29, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
recced
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 29, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions

I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 29, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Man, no wonder he keeps his head shaved.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Mar 29, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
There’s my cue to ignore this thread.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 29, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s that easy to get rid of you? Noted for future reference.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Mar 29, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh and remember, NEVER WEAR RED AROUND KIRK.
YOU WILL DIE.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 29, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m disappointed in you SB.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 29, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Those are the only two lines of Star trek I know. Picard>Kirk and to never wear red.
My father was the Trekie buff. I’d just watch a few snippets with him.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 29, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah right. I know you have a Leonard Nimoy fathead in your room.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 29, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
who doesn’t?
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 29, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Not me. I have Chubaka.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 29, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a Klingon forehead though.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 29, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
chewbacca?
I would rather have Admiral Ackbar.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Damn internet. Fooled me on the spelling. lol
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 29, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Its okay…the internet is just a trap

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
By far the best line in Star Wars.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 29, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah. Ole Miss (the school) has a campaign to have Admiral Ackbar as their mascot…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I’d vote Sandra Bullock.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 29, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s no mascot…..it’s a space station!
by BrownDawg1409 on Mar 29, 2010 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not the mascot they’re looking for
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 29, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m 29 and don’t know how to spell it. Oh well.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 29, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
?
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 29, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Play on words.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 29, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I still don’t get it.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 29, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Ed McMahon… Johnnie Carson show… Bueller…
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 29, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
lol I get that, but not the “i t”
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 29, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m 29 and don’t know how to spell it. Oh well.
You said this earlier.
Golan took it in the literal sense that you could not spell the word IT.
So he showed you how.
I-T.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 29, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the second time in as many days that an easy to understand post of mine has required an explanation. Am I typing in Mandarin?
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
I got it.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I got it too, it was funny
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 29, 2010 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Color me red. haha
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 29, 2010 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Uhura never died.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 29, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I never watched the original Star Treks in-depth, I just know of them and the general aspects about the characters. Are you referring to the infamous “the redshirts get killed” theme? Did that originate from Star Trek?
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Mar 29, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 29, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
That and never be a green-skinned alien babe that sleeps with Kirk.
YOU WILL DIE.
by BrownDawg1409 on Mar 29, 2010 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Bradford
Haden
Suh
Berry
Okung
Columbus til I die, Columbus til I die. I know I am, I swear I am, Columbus til I die!
"Turner, at midcourt...inside it, at the buzzer, GOT IT!!!!"
by Andrew Tolliver on Mar 29, 2010 9:06 AM EDT reply actions
You are one of the theoretical Haden over Suh and Berry crowd? Care to expound?
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
the Suh disrespect is astounding.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Mar 29, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Agreed.
Suh is about as “clean” as a prospect, at a premium position, as you will find now a days.
What is the worst thing about him? That he doesn’t weigh more?
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 29, 2010 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
and whether that’s a bad thing or not really depends on what position you want him to play.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 29, 2010 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Also its exceedingly rare that a DT goes in the top 3 picks. DT isn’t as valuable a position as edge pass rushers and OT and QB.
"Smokescreen."
I think a pass rushing DT is even more valuable.
IMO, Kevin Williams is the best D-Lineman in the NFL.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 30, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I disagree. Also disagree with Williams being the best DL in the league.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I should clarify. I think a pass rushing DT is more valuable than an edge pass rusher. Coin flip on the OT. Edge to the QB. Reason being, if a pass rusher is collapsing the middle every down, a QB will be no good. Even if he isn’t getting the sacks, pass rush in a QB’s face is 10x more disruptive than an edge rusher.
Who ya got as the D-Lineman?
The reason I named Williams is because I think he is a plus pass rusher and a plus run defender. Yes he is helped out with Pat Williams, but I think Kevin is fully rounded.
I would listen to an argument on Mario Williams and possibly Jared Allen. Haynesworth is consistent from down to down let alone year to year. Same for Julius Peppers. I don’t consider DeMarcus Ware a DLineman.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 30, 2010 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, Haden at #2? You aren’t the only one Andrew. I’ve seen it a few other times on here. I don’t get it. He is a nice CB, but if you would seriously consider him as the 2nd best player in this draft, I just cannot understand.
Sure he gets a little bump if you think CB is a gaping hole on the team (though I’d argue that there are more obvious, bigger, and deeper holes to fill), but #2?!
I draft Haden at 7, IF my top 6 are all taken AND we can’t trade down. Even then, I’d probably consider 4 or 5 guys equal to Haden’s value.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
yes…the problem is still people rating guys purely on browns needs and considering too much what is available. i didn’t put haden in my top 5 and Okung made it. We don’t desperately need Okung but he is EASILY one of the top 5 players in the draft.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Some people like to rate based heavily on need. That’s their prerogative. If the rest of us are not rating as much based on need, it won’t really matter.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
maybe it isn’t a problem. I understand why they do it. I do take need into consideration but I want to envision what Holmgren and heckert think are the top 5 players in the draft and if they were building a team from scratch, the first 5 guys they would take.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
The top 5 in total points right now are pretty clearly separated from the pack, and they aren’t ridiculous IMO.
If enough people think BPA is the way to go, and they agree on the BPA, that will show in the results. Same with need. I tend to think that BPA would be the best option right now (like you), but that’s why this isn’t my board, it’s our board.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
BPA works with a few exceptions this year (left tackle, center, long snapper, return man, and mediocre linebacker all come to mind). If BPA is a left tackle that we don’t think work work on the right side, or is a bad value at right tackle, then we should skip down to the second best player available. We have lots of holes, but also some very solid career guys.
by rebuilding year on Mar 30, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I would say draft on needs. Look what
Cincy and Baltimores did. They signed some solid receivers oh yea and Boldin. I think we should draft to our conference. Mason killed us last year. Now they have Boldin too?!! Bradford or Barry is a toss up to me. Aftervthat I think defense needs addressed.
by The naome40 on Mar 30, 2010 4:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It was damn tough for me to decide between Suh and Haden. If we could get back to back picks I’d take them both. I just figure our need is greater in the secondary.
Columbus til I die, Columbus til I die. I know I am, I swear I am, Columbus til I die!
"Turner, at midcourt...inside it, at the buzzer, GOT IT!!!!"
by Andrew Tolliver on Mar 30, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
but that doesn’t explain Haden over Berry. Berry is the far better prospect, and plays in the secondary.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 30, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
WTF? Kyle Wilson over Suh?
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 30, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Browns will trade to get the Redskins pick at Number 4 over all
If Suh, Gerald McCoy, Berry are available the Browns will trade the number 7 pick over all and the 71st and the 85th or 92nd picks to get the number 4 pick overall , that is if Sam Bradford is not available at number 4 that belongs to the Redskins. Washington will select Bradford if he is there (He wont be). Washington can trade down and still get Claussen.
I like one of the offensive tackles, but they wont select them, I still think they need defensive help.
In this scenario, Suh, Berry AND McCoy have to be available when the Redskins pick at 4?
That is quite a task my friend.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 29, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I meant if any of the three are available not all three available. Most likey it will be Berry. The Browns would take any of the three who are available at the number 4 spot. I did not think all or even two would be available at that spot.
Lets say the Rams take Bradford, that means Washington can trade down to number 7 and still get Claussen and pick up one if not two third round picks. The Browns have 3 third round picks.
I saw they go after Berry if her is there. I again like the OT, but I dont know if they will use that pick for an OT when they need so much on the defensive side of the ball too.
Random question
but as a QB option is there anything wrong with Lefevour? I haven’t seen a whole lot of discussion on here about him.
We did talk about him a lot before our discussions switched mainly to the first round pick. Plus there isn’t anything saying that Holmgren is interested in him right now.
I personally like the kid.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 29, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
To add on to what BY is saying, one of the minions (B19K) did some research and came to the conclusion that QBs outside of the first round have and impossibly small chance of becoming quality starters. So, anyone that wants a new starter should look at round one QBs.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
But Holmgren likes to take QBs in the later rounds. He said he thinks it give them time to develop and not be pressured to become the starter. I kinda think that if Tebow is there for our first third round pick we would grab him.
by The Brown Note on Mar 29, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Right.
Always remember when people do mock drafts and the like- huge difference in what you think WILL happen and what you think SHOULD happen.
We may all think drafting a QB late is dumb, but we might as well evaluate guys like LeFevour, Tebow, McCoy, Pike, Clark, etc. because our President has basically said we are drafting one of these guys.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
I like it.

"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 29, 2010 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Agreed. But, I think there is a good chance Colt goes way earlier than the others. I heard one of the ESPN guys say some are considering him late in the first round and second round for sure. I wouldn’t mind him early in the second, but it seems clear that Colt is separating himself from the rest of the pack as the #3 QB in this draft.
And since I see Claussen doing a Quinn-like drop, they might be drafted a lot closer than most of the mocks currently have them.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Mar 29, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
If we traded back up into the late first to draft him would that make him fit into Bernie’s draft a QB in the first only policy? Bernie?
One picture is worth 128K words.
Sure.
I don’t want the 32nd pick be some sort of invisible barrier. I think it would be more of a moving barrier.
In a loaded draft like this one, many players that will be picked in the middle of the second round would be first rounders in other seasons. I am not going to think that McCoy will be a star at pick 32 but a bum at 37. The draft is a fluid study from year to year. The first round was just a natural barrier. You start getting around 10 picks into the second, I would think you are probably out of the comfort zone.
I personally think that McCoy is a top 15 player in this draft and the second best QB in the draft. I would be elated if we could get him in the second round.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 30, 2010 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I too would be elated if we picked him in the second. I’m just worried with all the hype he’s starting to get as draft day approaches. I’m not sure what team picking towards the end of the first round would need a first round backup QB. I think they have too many other needs.
Do you think he’s worth our 38th then?
One picture is worth 128K words.
Minnesota would be a sneaky pick.
Stash him for a year (or six) behind Favre.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 30, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t see it. He doesn’t have the arm to go that high and just isn’t an improvement at all over Jackson or Sage.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 30, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
disagree on all of this.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 30, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I keep hearing that Colt McCoy doesn’t have the strongest arm.
I think this is overrated at every turn.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 30, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree. Sure he’s no Derek Anderson, but he can make all the throws. anything above that is nice, but not essential.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 30, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
he’s no Derek Anderson
If we’re drafting him, let’s hope not.
by emily522 on Mar 30, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I laughed a little when i typed that
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 30, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve seen video of McCoy flicking a 45 yard pass.
I’ll take a very accurate, smart, high character QB with decent arm strength over someone like DA again.
It is somewhat overrated, but watch his deep (er) throws (there are hardly any). They all float and I am concerned that he doesn’t have the strenght to make all of the necessary throws.
His size is a small concern too. (no pun intended)
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 30, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I have watched a lot of tape on McCoy.
From my amateur scouting view, I see a QB who doesn’t possess an arm cannon. This being said, I almost never see a throw he can’t make. He doesn’t have the same snap of a Clausen, but he isn’t throwing lollipops out there.
He throws the ball on the run better than anyone in the draft and he is very good deep accuracy. He throws the ball with great touch even deeper down field.
If McCoy was 2 inches taller and had a stronger arm, he would be battling Bradford for the number one pick.
As for the small size concern, he never had an injury issue until the NC game. He ran the ball and took some good licks. I think he is tough kid.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 31, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
The real thing to look for would be a throw that should have been zipped in to a tight spot between a receiver and the sideline and was too slow getting there.
Or difficult completed throws to the field side of the field.
Just because a guy has touch on all of his throws doesn’t mean he can’t throw it hard. Especially when he is completing 70+% of his passes.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
IfMcCoyBrees was 2 inches taller and had a stronger arm, he would be battlingBradfordVick for the number one pick.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
If McCoy was 2 inches taller and had a stronger arm, he would be battling Bradford for the number one pick.
But he’s not.
From my amateur scouting view, I see a QB who doesn’t possess an arm cannon. This being said, I almost never see a throw he can’t make. He doesn’t have the same snap of a Clausen, but he isn’t throwing lollipops out there.
I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on this.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 31, 2010 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
still want to say McCoy can’t make all the throws after that pro day?
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 31, 2010 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
F’’’ pro days.
If prodays mattered, Jamarcus Russell would be the best QB in the NFL. ALMOST EVERY QB prospect has a “good” pro day.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 31, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
but a pro day doesn’t grant you more arm strength. he still had to throw deep outs, and he did it.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Apr 1, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
McShay doesn’t have Clausen in the top 32 overall player rankings. Maybe Walterfootball should lecture him.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
movethesticks.com, written by a former scout, keeps saying that Clausen will fall out of the first round.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 30, 2010 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah…plus we all know all the work McShay did in the field as a scout…so this scout must be wrong…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
what? they agree with each other.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 30, 2010 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I do remember seeing that, and not believe it.
Yet, agreeing with it.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Mar 30, 2010 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, give us a break. The door swings both ways around here on this, and I suspect you know it.
by Western Reserve on Mar 30, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
No thanks. I am tired of the overreactions. People are allowed to disagree, so to come up with these phony reasons for being biased is my objection.
I hear you, just was pointing out that you can witness varying degrees of irrationality from not just one side but from both sides.
by Western Reserve on Mar 30, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I would say that a person who says Clausen is too short to be an NFL QB that is 6’2.5 is irrational.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 30, 2010 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Ewww
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 30, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
1. Clausen
2. Berry
3. Graham
4. Suh
5. Wilson
by The Licensed Pessimist on Mar 29, 2010 11:34 AM EDT reply actions
So if we take Berry over Clausen are you going to be really upset or will you be relatively pleased?
Probably be kinda pissed. I would probably actually rather have Graham over Berry now that I think about since getting pressure on the QB does more for a secondary than a good S ever could. But I would probably be upset since the the difference between the later round QB’s compared to Clausen is huge, and the difference between Berry and Earl Thomas or even Nate Allen isn’t as great
by The Licensed Pessimist on Mar 29, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
But I think either berry will be taken and clausen will be available or clausen will be taken and berry will be available.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Mar 29, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Way to be in lockstep with Walterfootball. Does he spoonfeed you your applesauce too? He could write an article that fullback was the best position with witch to use a high pick and you would be on here the next day claiming we should draft a fullback.
"Smokescreen."
fullback was the best position with witch to use a high pick
Well, a witch with a fullback does sound like an interesting pick. . . . Fullback jumps on his broom with the ball and goes right over the d-line. Also, if the NFL outlaws brooms, the FB could cast a spell on the defense allowing Jerome Harrison to rush for 300 yards/game.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Mar 29, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
lol. I was thinking the same thing. He could just cast a shield charm in front of the running back or an impediment jinx and knock someone backwards…no unforgivable curses though, that would be a personal foul.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Supposedly, all wand related bans were written after the first game when there were over 600 fouls.
by BrownDawg1409 on Mar 29, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Quiddich Through the ages???
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Is there any other book that J.K. Rowling originally wrote for charity before it was officially published for public market?
by BrownDawg1409 on Mar 29, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
actually yeah…I believe fantastic beasts and where to find them was also like this.
I can’t find my copies of either though…I did buy the charity copies but I don’t mind a rebuy.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Let me clarify. Is there any other book that J.K. Rowing originally wrote about Quidditch for charity before it was officially published for public market?
by BrownDawg1409 on Mar 30, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Who the hell do you think you are? You don’t have the right to address me with that hostility. For one, I’ve never even had an exchange with you for you to act like you know me. And two, aren’t you the idiot who keep talking about bringing in Troy Smith in every one of your posts on this board? I’ll turn the question around, are you Troy Smith’s butt-boy? STFD
by The Licensed Pessimist on Mar 30, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s okay, nobody likes him.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 30, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
eh, I’m indifferent to him. He gets fixated on certain players but he’s never more than a minor annoyance, and usually he’s ok.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 30, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re one to complain about people not having a right to address you with hostility. In a different thread you called me an irrational hater, which isn’t anything to be upset about, but then you said: “you’re reasoning is shit.” and launched into a diatribe about how I couldn’t read and had a small vocabulary.
so in summary, your comment is a prime example of the pot calling the kettle black.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 30, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve never even had a conversation with the man before, and I’ve just recently seen him post on the board. So its strange for him to call me out like we’ve debated before or something. You on the other hand came strong at me first, and I was just responding to your attacks and silly logic.
If Rufio, Dorn or you came at me this strong I wouldn’t be surprised
by The Licensed Pessimist on Mar 30, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s all for the spirit of debate. I am trying to avoid personal stuff and focusing on the arguments themselves.
It hard when there is such a group-think and gang mentality that goes on with the board. So much instigation and ganging up. So it’s not hypocrisy because I don’t have a problem with people being hostile towards me. But If some brand new guy who I’ve never even seen calls me out and acts hostile, especially when its not even a debate, its a little uncalled for
by The Licensed Pessimist on Mar 30, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
there is definitely a bit of group-think, but i think you’re making it out to be worse than it is. there are plenty of differing opinions here.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 30, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
…as well as well-defined opinions. I think it’s safe to say that most of the regulars here do not make bold declarations without at least attempting to back them up with reason and are willing to admit when an opinion is just a gut-feeling. That is, it’s all debatable.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
I agree to an extent about ganging up, but that is the territory when someone is in the minority opinion. I’ve seen group think accusations on LGT and here as well, and I tend to think that is just how the minority opinion likes to portray their opposition, but I can see why you would think that way.
rec
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 30, 2010 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions
You have 0 room to talk. He supported Clausen before that article. At least he doesn’t have a hard one for a certain former buckeye QB.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 30, 2010 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
he has a hard one for a notre dame player, how is that any different?
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 30, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Who? ROCLAND?
IF that is what they you are saying, you are very hipocritical.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 30, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
he has a “hard one” for clausen. he defends Clausen with as much vigor as jaws talking about Smith.
how am I being “hipocritical?”
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 31, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Among the bugs I intend to fix before the next poll gets released…
-Preventing the “DE/OLB” position label from being truncated to “DE/”
-Having the list arranged in ABC order by first name.
If people see other bugs, let me know. As of this post, 173 people have cast votes.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
Thanks for doing this, btw. If you’re going to alphabetically arrange the list, maybe it would be better to do it by last name. Makes it easier from a name recognition standpoint.
I thought about that, though in my initial design (and my attempt to make the form shorter for rufio), I only included a “name” box. I could still do the ABC order thing on last name by searching the name field for the first SPACE it encounters, but then data entry errors (i.e. forgetting to put a space) are subject to not being sorted correctly. I’ll see, since typically players are sorted by their last names…
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Mar 29, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
SELECT Concat(SUBSTRING_INDEX(pname, ’ ’, -1), ’, ’, SUBSTRING_INDEX(pname, ’ ’, 1)) AS formatname, position, college FROM `player` WHERE sid = 2 ORDER BY formatname ASC
(reference to myself of query for when I get to the PHP file later)
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Mar 29, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t mind doing another box for the last name if that is easier for you. I almost put some people’s last names as their schools.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Na, the code I wrote above should work, as long as you always do a name like this:
Eric Berry
…and not like this…
EricBerry
Eric-Berry
Eric.Berry
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Mar 29, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay, I fixed the bugs listed in the first post I made in this tree. Names in the poll are sorted by last name.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Mar 29, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Indeed :-D
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Mar 30, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
1. berry
2. haden
3. iupata
4. balogna
5. okung
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
Nah. I’m all about taking O-line in the first every year. It’d be all O-line if it weren’t for the very real possibility that we could head into next season with Brandon McDonald as a starter.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 29, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
that possibility keeps me up at night. I can’t watch tackling like that for another 16 games.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 29, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I have O-Line behind S, LB, WR, and QB on my list of needs. Plus, Suh is good enough to blow your needs list up.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
This was my thinking.
Suh and Berry are too good to pass up. Best players bar none in this draft. If Bradford is there I wouldn’t hate taking him.
After that, the only sure thing I see is Iupati. We need a sure thing. Suh, Berry and Iupati who I fully expect to be a Pro Bowler.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 29, 2010 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, after those three I start thinking about all kinds of reaches.
Which is why trading down would be awesome if none of them are left.
I have Clausen, Thomas, Graham, Dan Williams, Bulaga, McClain, Iupati, and Haden all in that next group, and I’d love to be sitting at 11-12 to scoop up the best one of them left.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
My dream situation is that San Fran decides they have to have Player X and gives us their two first rounders.
I can dream right?
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 29, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
there is no sure thing. Any player can bust. You’re awful high on Iupati. Granted i love the guy too but he is pretty raw in pass pro. And he is only a guard.
"Smokescreen."
He is a beast. Put on any tape of his and he just dominates. Look at the Boise State game tape from this season. Idaho ran for 150 yards behind him. In a game they lost by 40.
You can go back to ’07 against USC. He is a man amongst boys. He is so strong at the POA. His footwork is great and he moves like a man who is 75lbs lighter.
Everytime I watch him, I see Steve Hutchinson. I keep saying it, we will look back in 5 years and wonder why the 3 time Pro Bowl RG/RT was passed over for a CB. Would you trade our first rounder for a 23 YO Steve Hutchinson? Add in the fact that offensive lineman are almost always worth their draft pick, I see him as a no-brainer.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 30, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions
If nothing else, this is a good sell job. Iupati is probably 6 on my (meaningless) board and my 4-10 is pretty mushy right now. He might be moving up.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Mar 30, 2010 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Its simple: Guards don’t effect the outcome of games nearly as much as CBs
He could be the greatest guard of all time and still not have all that much effect on the Browns record. Not as much as a LT, QB, pass rusher or CB. Thats why those positions make vastly more money. Granted, I still love iupati if we trade down, I’d hate to see him go to the steelers at #18
"Smokescreen."
Its simple: Guards don’t effect the outcome of games nearly as much as CBs
Guards don’t, but great guards do. Iupata has the stink of Steve Hutchinson all over him. If he’s not a game changer at guard inside of three years, I’ll eat my hat.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
Operative words: game changer. The vikings need their pass rush and Brett Favre much more than they need steve Hutchinson.
"Smokescreen."
The Browns have the best LT in the league. And a bad record.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 30, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but they also spent most of the year with Quinn under center. Not even Joe Thomas can overcome the South Bend Suckage.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 30, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
This argument has real potential. Enlighten us, gentlemen.
by Western Reserve on Mar 31, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
hahaha, I can’t wait for the rebuttal
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 31, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Have you been pancaked yet Golan?
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 31, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
What an ignorant statement.
Look at the Seattle Seahawks.
2005 (with Hutchinson) Shaun Alexander had 1880 yards, 5.1 YPC and 27 TD’s and won the MVP.
2006 (without Hutchinson) Shaun Alexander had 896 yards, 3.6 YPC, 7 TD’s and couldn’t do anything on the ground.
Only change was Hutchinson.
But please, by all means keep up the thinking that a guard can have no effect in winning football games.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 30, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
You weren’t arguing for QBs or DE/OLBs. You were arguing for CBs.
Its simple: Guards don’t effect the outcome of games nearly as much as CBs
I’d take LT, QB, or pass rusher easily. But we already have JT, there probably won’t be a QB at the pick, and the pass rushers that are elite in this draft scare me (Morgan with transitioning, JPP with bustitude).
And it isn’t a straight positional battle, either. I bet Iupati is way better at his position than Haden in the NFL.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Its simple: Guards don’t effect the outcome of games nearly as much as CBs
False. You can game plan around a CB. You can run the ball. You can throw away from a CB. Guards would be essential on every snap.
Thats why those positions make vastly more money.
Tell that to Steve Hutchinson, Eric Steinbech, Leonard Davis etc., etc., etc.
I still love iupati if we trade down, I’d hate to see him go to the steelers at #18
Again, if you think he is the BPA, then who gives a damn where everyone else thinks he should be drafted?
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 30, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, if you think he is the BPA, then who gives a damn where everyone else thinks he should be drafted?
Honestly, I would probably rather “reach” for Graham at 7th than take Morgan or JPP at this point.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I would be fine with Graham at 7.
Considering I had him at 5 on my Big Board, this shouldn’t be a surprise.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 31, 2010 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
hahaha…I dunno if you misspelled some of the names on purpose but the misspellings are funny. I don’t care that much about spelling mistakes, but who wouldn’t want balogna on their Offensive line…next we can get salami and terkey and we can have the Deli meat blocking scheme.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
we’ve already got porkchop
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 29, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
1. Suh
2. Berry
3. Iupati
4. B. Price
5. Graham (I have officially switch bandwagons after Morgan’s pro day. I still really like Morgan, just not at 7.)
Reason I didn’t select a QB is because I think we should clean the rest of the house before we bring in a QB. If I was forced to pick a QB from this draft class it would be down to Bradford or McCoy.
Looking at the results page thus far (not shown to you guys yet), it’s fascinating to see how a player with way more first-place votes than another play is just about tied with a player without any first-place votes since they have so many second-place votes. It clearly shows the feeling fans have toward either wanting to address a position in the first round or not wanting to address it until later rounds/next year.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
I am guessing it is Bradford and Suh for the top spot?
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 29, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I was guessing Berry and Bradford.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 29, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I get a Glenn Dorsey feeling with McCoy
by The Licensed Pessimist on Mar 29, 2010 2:24 PM EDT reply actions
For a second I was confused about Glenn/Ken Dorsey and Colt/Gerald McCoy. Interesting similar analogy.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
Bradford
Suh
Berry
Okung
McCoy
This was submitted before I read about Bradford’s pro day today. He is a no brainer for me now at this point.
From what it sounds like, he cemented the deal to go number one.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 29, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
What’d he do at the pro-day?
I still think we take Colt McCoy. I don’t see how the Rams don’t take Bradford.
Yup. And in the extremely unlikely event he gets past the Rams, he ain’t getting past the Redskins or Seahawks — at least not with us giving up a ton of value to get there. His stock is up.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Mar 29, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, if he gets past St Louis, I wouldn’t be shocked by us trading with Detroit — they apparently want to trade down. But again, it would probably cost us next year’s first rounder and at least a 3rd from this year. Worth it? If he’s the next Peyton Manning, yes. But that is a huge “if”, and I’d be really nervous about such a move.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Mar 29, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think there will be another Peyton Manning, he’s a different breed. There will be other great QBs obviously, but I don’t think anyone will ever bring his approach to the game. For some reason when I think of Manning I see him as growing up an adult in a child’s body, he just always seems so mature and composed.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
Really? I see a robot with a laser/rocket arm.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 29, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
AAAAHHHH!!! It’s an evil robot come to destroy our playoff hopes by not playing. RUN FOR YOUR LIVES.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 29, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
It has been rumored that we have a trade option with Detroit lined up.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Yep. I’m afraid.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 29, 2010 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Of the havoc we’d reek. So many options!
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 29, 2010 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Suh>Berry
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 29, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
As far as BPA, sure. But as far as what the Browns should be looking at,
Berry > Suh
by BrownDawg1409 on Mar 29, 2010 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
So wrong.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 29, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s more than that. I don’t know how Suh would fit into our 3-4 scheme. And after the Corey Williams fiasco, I don’t want to be giving top 5 money to a guy that has the great potential to be a great misfit in our system.
by BrownDawg1409 on Mar 29, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s a perfect fit for our DE. Huge with speed.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 29, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he’d be perfect, too. So strong at the POA. Clearly good at drawing/defeating double-teams. Can rush the passer a little without having to vacate his run responsibilities.
G. McCoy is the player more similar to Williams, IMO.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Absolutely right. Of the two only Suh really fits our scheme. He would be perfect as a 5tech.
McCoy is much more of a tampa 2 DT, hence the reason some people have tampa taking him even over suh.
"Smokescreen."
That’s also another eason I don’t trust either top DT in this draft. I remember reading about the schemes of each player played in at their respective schools. Suh’s was tie up blockers while McCoy’s had him penatrating more per scheme. Suh would be the better fit, sure. But I’m not sure better translates into ‘can play in’.
I don’t have anything against Suh, but I really don’t see him as a 3-4 guy.
by BrownDawg1409 on Mar 30, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
But I’m not sure better translates into ‘can play in’.
can you elaborate on this? It seems to me he proved he can play in that type of system if he did it in college.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 30, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I suppose it’s hypocrosy to support Haden, Berry or Bradford over Suh seeing as how I’ve never seen any for myself, but I’m just not believing all they hype that Suh is producing.
But I reserve the right to say that I’ve never seen Suh for myself while having seen plenty of guys who were splitting double and triple teams (Glenn Dorsey or B.J. Raji anyone?).
Again, this is probably hypocracy, but it’s easier to believe the stuff that’s being reported on guys like Haden, Berry and Bradford than Suh.
by BrownDawg1409 on Mar 30, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Raji is going to be good for quite some time in this league.
I was 100% against him last draft also, so what do I know?
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 30, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Granted, the juries still out on Raji. But I just havn’t heard anything about him any time I was listening to ESPN talk radio. Nadda, zilch. Other than the hold out of course…
I’ll admit that my stance isn’t one based on logic, no matter what points I’ve come up with. I just really don’t like Suh.
by BrownDawg1409 on Mar 30, 2010 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Does ESPN talk radio ever venture outside of Manning, FAvre, Brady talk? I would be shocked if they had a discussion on D-lineman once in an entire season.
Anyone who employs Colin Cowherd to talk sports, doesn’t care what the listeners think.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 31, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Cowherd is so clueless that it is hilarious.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 31, 2010 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah. I used to get the thundering herd podcast…I had an order of podcasts the day I would listen to (and would sometimes skip some). I would listen to my least favorite first. the thundering herd was my most skipped and was always first so I decided not to subscribe anymore…now for me it is fantasy, mike and mike, and PTI, and ATH.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I got Mike Golic’s autograph at the ND-Nevada game this year. Just sayin.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 31, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
thats pretty cool. he seems like a cool, laid back guy. plus he is a very good former player analyst. most of the talking heads were QBs but its cool for one of the intelligent analysts to be a hard nosed player (like stink…and I happen to love both’s analysis)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Dorsey was very up and down over his career and from game to game, and from play to play. Dominant one play, lazy the next. Hurt often.
Dorsey is the “penetrating 3 technique” that G. McCoy is supposed to be, and he is playing in a scheme that is probably a bad fit (a 2-gapping 3-4)
Suh just threw people around. Teams were double and triple teaming him and he was still winning blocks. He’s ridiculous. He is very strong and should be able to do everything asked of him in a 3-4, and be versatile enough to rush the passer a little on passing downs.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
“tie up blockers” is the job description of all 30 front linemen. Suh is the absolute IDEAL fit at 3-4 DE
"Smokescreen."
I still won’t believe it till’ I see it.
by BrownDawg1409 on Mar 30, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
and the argument can be made that Berry is the BPA. I don’t believe so but they are almost like 1 and 1A now when it comes to talent and how scouts look at them.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Honestly, I like that idea more than sitting at 7 and picking someone like Bulaga, Rolando McClain, etc.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Refer to comment right above yours…
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 29, 2010 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
where did this rumor originate? is it something I could reasonably expect to occur or is it just a crazy pre-draft rumor?
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 29, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
i shouldn’t have asked. It should be obvious that its a smokescreen
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 29, 2010 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
That was a smokescreen as well.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I believe Mangini said something about “not ruling out” trading up to Detroit’s pick.
Obviously, take everything with a huge grain of salt this time of year.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
What if it is for Clausen?
Could the servers hold up?
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 29, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
ugh.. I don’t want to pay #2 money to anybody. Not even Suh. On top of that, to get to the #2 pick would be ludicrously costly in terms of draft picks.
"Smokescreen."
I don’t think we would be giving up draft value chart equivalent picks. I think we would move up for less than that.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I think the Browns will work a deal to get Berry.
If Bradford is gone. Washington wants Bradford if they can get him at the number 4 pick. If not they will trade down.
I don’t think that even Al Davis is that crazy.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 29, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
McNabb will never agree to an extension with the Raiders.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 29, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Never underestimate the value of a crap load of dollars.
Right DeAngelo?

by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 29, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
this picture is frickin hilarious
by The Licensed Pessimist on Mar 30, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m agreeing with most everybody else, having Berry at 1. My reasoning is that unless we plan on switching to a 4-3 (which as far as I understand we aren’t) we need to build up with our DB & LB… so my list is as follows
1. Berry
2. Suh (still a best)
3. McClain
4. E Thomas
5. Okung
Why has no one ranked McClain at all??
There are others that are better: Suh, Bradford, Berry for sure. Okung is more valuable but not really to us. McCoy is also a better prospect by most accounts, though he’s not necessarily a great fit here. ILB just isn’t a hugely valuable position that high in the draft – you need a player of epic potential (kinda like Berry is for safety).
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
MLB just doesn’t have that much effect on the game anymore. Not nearly as much as QB or pass rusher or offensive tackle.
"Smokescreen."
Ray Lewis, Patrick Willis.
But there are only two MLBs alive who can make that kind of impact.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
They are also 3-4 backers, where they take on more important roles than their 4-3 counter parts.
by BrownDawg1409 on Mar 30, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Once again:
1. Suh
(big drop-off)
2. Berry
3. Bradford
(gigantic huge drop-off)
4. Bryant
5. McClain
After my top 3 nobody excites me in the top 20. If we come away with one of the top 3, I’ll be pumped.
Also, still think Haden is overrated.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
I don’t see how Bradford gets behind Berry. Also, McCoy? Do you know something that everyone else doesn’t about him?
by TheDriveStillHurts on Mar 29, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Most people on here are not fans of Gerald McCoy.
I have been crapping on the dude for almost 6 months now.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 29, 2010 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Can’t quite put my finger on it, but something is holding me back from being as sold on Bradford. His ceiling is obviously higher than Berry’s, but since Berry is so safe and QB’s carry so much extra risk (and cost), I have Berry over Bradford.
Won’t really argue if you have those two flipped.
McCoy? I don’t know. He didn’t stand out to me in the games I watched. Not as much as Suh or even Terrence Cody. Any mention of McCoy in the same tier as Suh is crazy. Think of it this way: look at Suh’s numbers, then look at McCoy’s. They played in the same conference. Suh was probably triple-teamed more than McCoy was double-teamed. So my thought? Top 10? Fine. Top 5? Maybe. Top 3? No way.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
McCoy is a different kind of player. Could be an elite Warren Sapp type of player in the tampa 2 scheme. Slightly undersized but fantastic speed and jump off the ball. He could be a major force in the defensive line in one gap schemes.
Suh has the Knee injury history and could end up being just an average player in the NFL. You never know what might happen.
"Smokescreen."
Suh’s floor might be an average player in the NFL. Fine.
But I don’t see the McCoy upside. Warren Sapp wasn’t undersized. And he was really freaking fast for a 300 lb-er. He dominated at the highest levels in college. McCoy is averagely fast, not overwhelmingly strong and disappeared for entire games against good competition.
Maybe you meant to say “Suh” in your first paragraph. Much better comp for Sapp, actually.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Mar 30, 2010 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Gerald McCoy is 6’4" 295, pretty similar size to sapp.
McCoy isn’t the strongest lineman, neither was sapp.
McCoy and sapp both relied on speed and agility and getting off the ball quickly.
McCoy and Sapp both fit the tampa 2 scheme perfectly ( slightly undersized pass rush oriented one-gap DTs)
"Smokescreen."
Sapp was 6’2 and his playing weight was around 310-315 pounds and at one point got all the way up to over 330 (and he was still effective). He was quick but he was also an extremely strong lineman. He had great speed and agility for his size but he was also a huge dude. He was stout against the run and was a big, hard hitter type of lineman.
Imagine Kevin Williams’ Body and body type, combined with the speed and agility of a pat williams. this was a guy who could play the 3 tech or 2 tech. he could stop the run, bull rush, or just flat out use his agility to get to the QB.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I think you have the Williamses switched.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
yeah. I just noticed that when you said it…why do they have to have the same name?!?!?!
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I couldn’t tell ya.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
brothers from another mother
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 31, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Here’s the thing. You’ve compared McCoy to Sapp’s weaknesses (though Sapp was much heavier, lower to the ground and stronger). On Sapp’s high points (speed), McCoy doesn’t even come close. Check their 40 times, check their sack numbers in college, check their accolades in college, check their gamelogs in college, check the tape.
McCoy may be a good players someday, but that is a lot of projection for a guy talked about in the top 5. There just isn’t much to back it up. What part of his game or physique is elite? Point me to a time when he dominated in the Big 12.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Mar 30, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
1. Suh
2. Bradford
3. McCoy
4. Berry
5. Okung
That’s how I think I voted, but now I would consider switching 1 & 2 — the reviews of Bradford at his pro-day are off the charts.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Mar 29, 2010 6:37 PM EDT reply actions
I hid that chain of comments that caused controversy above. It should be obvious to everyone to refrain from unnecessary comments, or else (Dun Dun Dun). Carry on.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Mar 29, 2010 11:31 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Haha, I was starting tho think that whole thread was just a figment of my imagination…
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 30, 2010 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions
me too
She only has one disease. And it’s named after me.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 30, 2010 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions
You know, I was sure your sig was going to end up being “I spread Gonorrhea like no one’s business.”
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Mar 30, 2010 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Funny as hell, but a little nasty. No one wants to see that everyday.
She only has one disease. And it’s named after me.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 30, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually, I’m just gunna delete what I have now and wait till something better comes up.
She only has one disease. And it’s named after me.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 30, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Before you vote – check out the write up about SAm Bradford in PD. I will repeat – I hate Oklahoma with a passion – but Sam Bradford is the truth. His accurAcy and athleticism just scary.
by realmccoy on Mar 29, 2010 11:57 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
you can’t make me!
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 30, 2010 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Beats the hell outta the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette or Tribune Review.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 30, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Quarterbacks
Besides Bradford, I dont see a quarterback worth taking in this draft. I would be more in favor of drafting one of the Offensive Tackles. I also am not so sure how deep this draft is. I like McClain but I dont think the Browns will draft him. He is a smart player. Berry would be a good pick. Haden if Berry is not there.
20/20 hindsight being what it is, I wish we had taken Champ Bailey instead of the consensus #1 QB back in 1999.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
the question is, is there a champ bailey in this draft? to look at the current draft, it doesn’t help to look in hindsight at others. you have to go by THAT year.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I cannot believe you just compared champ bailey to haden. Haden is NOWHERE NEAR the talent champ bailey is. champ bailey was one of the best players at his position in college football in decades. he was the same in the pros. champ bailey was smarter, better, and more polished coming out. he had skills haden could only dream to have. Looking back, if Bailey was being looked at as a prospect in this years draft, not only would he be by FAR the best CB (and DB) but he would pretty much be a lock in the top 3. the only thing stopping him from being #1 was QB need in St. Louis, and if Detroit would take Suh. However, detroit does need CB help so I would say with Bailey’s skills he would go #2 overall…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Exactly.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 30, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t pay much attention to measurables. The guy plays fast and smart and physical.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 31, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
yes (and this is to you below too golan) but Haden was nowhere near the level that Bailey was SKILLWISE and polished-wise coming out. I think haden can be a #1 CB but he doesn’t have anywhere close to the skills that champ bailey did. bailey is great at reading a QBs eyes and shutting down a receiver in many ways that aren’t completely reliant of physical skills, however his physical skills are miles ahead of where haden’s were. there isn’t a comparison at all. it is like jaws trying to compare gerald McCoy to Warren Sapp. 2 completely different styles of players…on 2 completely different levels.
Golan, I think haden could have a very good career and develop into a #1 CB, but look at who you are comparing him too…a future HOFer…
That is like comparing derrick morgan to Michael Strahan.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
And I’m telling you that he will be every bit the player Bailey is. Watch and see.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 30, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
so I am supposed to just go on your word and he must be as good as Bailey? I just don’t know what evidence there is to support it…Am I supposed to believe…Is he a fairy like tinkerbell and if I believe, he CAN succeed? please tell me how he will be like bailey?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I think Tinkerbell is one of the Disney princesses now.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 30, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
hahaha.
oh by the way, you still haven’t given any evidence or reason why joe haden will be the next champ bailey…I would love to here it.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
There is no evidence. Haden is just hyped.
Who's Cartwright?
I'm Cartwright.
You're not Cartwright.
by Brownie's Year on Mar 31, 2010 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I never said that he’s the next Champ Bailey. I said that he’ll be just as good. His game will be different than Bailey’s. He’ll be more physical at the LOS, he’s already a better tackler than Bailey and already has better field vision. He’ll see a few more balls thrown in his direction than Bailey, because he’s not a lockdown corner like Bailey, but at the same time, he’ll force a lot of fumbles, get more INTs and get to the QB more than any other CB in recent memory.
In short, there’s more than one way to play the position, and I think he’ll develop into the best all around CB in the league.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 31, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
what makes you so high on Haden?
by The Licensed Pessimist on Mar 31, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Gut feeling.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 31, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
so we should just draft him on your gut feeling? call up holmgren, I think we have a lock with that pick!
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
My gut is right more often than not.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
haha oh god here we go
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 31, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
even if it is, you still admit it is wrong. there is a good chance here your gut is wrong.
And I don’t know how much value I put on an opinion on a player based on someones gut feeling.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
You should put more value in golan’s gut. Learn to live a little.
by Western Reserve on Mar 31, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
okay…so I should live a little and believe the next champ bailey is in this draft?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
You should learn that Golan is 99% right more than you ever are.
Golan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bross.
No offense. Just scientifically proven.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 31, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I recommend this post.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 31, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
No. You should just live a little.
And challenge golan’s gut to a game of chess. En garde!
Just my two cents.
by Western Reserve on Mar 31, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
My gut beat Deep Blue.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 31, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I know how much value I put on your opinion on a player. Zero.
Even if we had game tape on every player, and enough free time to study it, and access to the players’ pro days and interviews and background checks and police records, we’d still be left making, at best, an educated guess as to who will be and who won’t be a great player. And short of having all of the above information, what it comes down to is either a gut feeling or parroting what you’ve read elsewhere and pretending that you’ve actually done the work.
I go with the gut. It saves me time, and I’m usually just as likely to be correct as anyone who pretends to study up on the draft.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
I go with the gut. It saves me time, and I’m usually just as likely to be correct as anyone who pretends to study up on the draft.
This dovetails nicely with my sneaking suspicion that all draft talk is really just the sports fan equivalent of talking about the weather on a slow news day.
That's just noise.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Apr 1, 2010 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks. Don’t get me wrong, I can see why people find draft talk entertaining – and it’s clear that it’s a hugely popular topic here – but to get too serious about it just seems silly.
That's just noise.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Apr 2, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t know Butch Davis was a lesbian.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Mar 31, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly… throw a wig on him and throw him into YWCA and I’m not sure I’d be able to pick him out.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
Hmm, good point, just don’t yell out “Hey Butch!”.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Apr 1, 2010 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions
My neice just informed me that Tinkerbell is, in fact, still a fairy.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
rec
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 31, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I highly doubt this. Time will tell.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I’m sold on the guy. We’ll have to revisit this topic in a few years.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Mar 31, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m marking it on my calendar for 2013
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 31, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Champ bailey comes around once in a generation. I don’t believe there are ANY players (especially in the defensive backfield) who run a 4.28 40, have a 45 inch vertical leap, 3.8 second 20 yd SS, AND won the Bronko Nagurski award as the nations best defensive player…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
He almost certainly is the number one QB in this draft. But if you consider this to be a weak QB crop, what does that really mean? Nothing.
When investing in a first round QB, the comparison isn’t to other QB’s in the draft. It is to the QB’s on the team now, available in trades, in FA, and probably, more importantly for the Browns, in the next couple drafts. You only draft a QB in the first round once in a great while (once a decade, ideally).
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Mar 30, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Not arguing this, but there are plenty of people who like Jimmy Clausen the most. They would not draft Bradford first.
these people all have posters of him in their bedrooms
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 31, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it a crime to have a different opinion?
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 31, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
No. It should be a crime to write articles that are as bad as Walterfootball’s.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Apr 1, 2010 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Am I confused or are the Eagles really only asking for a top 40 pick for McNabb? Would our 2nd be too much to give up for him?
Depending on who we get in the first and/or other moves we might make (trading down for extra picks,trading Rogers/DQ) would a 2nd be worth it if we were able to acquire another pick in the 2nd or 3rd?
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback

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