An Updated Look at AFC North Receivers After the Steelers Trade Santonio Holmes
by Chris Pokorny on Apr 12, 2010 12:58 PM EDT
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PrintIn case you missed it, the Pittsburgh Steelers traded WR Santonio Holmes to the New York Jets. In exchange, all they received was a fifth-round draft pick. Based on Holmes' production the past couple of years, there was no reason talent-wise to trade Holmes.
This is a player who is just entering the prime of his career, coming off a career-best 1,248 yards receiving and 5 touchdowns. In my mind, he had the same productivity level as Hines Ward did, especially against the Browns. Here is the damage Holmes did to the Browns compared to Ward the past several years...
2009
Santonio Holmes: 11 catches, 197 yards
Hines Ward: 12 catches, 180 yards, 1 TD
2008
Santonio Holmes: 8 catches, 125 yards
Hines Ward: 11 catches, 129 yards, 1 TD
2007
Santonio Holmes: 6 catches, 108 yards, 1 TD
Hines Ward: 10 catches, 131 yards, 2 TD
2006
Santonio Holmes: 9 catches, 156 yards, 1 TD
Hines Ward: 7 catches, 81 yards (* did not play in both games)
As you can see, their production levels against the Browns over the past four years had been pretty consistent. Losing one of those players and keeping a guy that is nearing the later stages of his career can only benefit the Browns.
Holmes was entering the last year of his contract, and since he's facing a four-game suspension this year, the Jets are only getting him for 12 games. That's why the Steelers were only able to get a fifth rounder for him, but the Jets unquestionably got a bargain at the same time because Holmes has proven to be a much more consistent threat than Braylon Edwards. It's good to see the Steelers take action toward one troublesome player, but the timing of the move almost makes you scratch your head in regards to the non-punishment coming to QB Ben Roethlisberger.
Now that the Jets have made a knack for taking away troubled receivers from the AFC North, let's take an updated look at each team's status at the position before the draft...
Baltimore Ravens
Returning Threats: Mark Clayton, Derrick Mason
New Threats: Anquan Boldin, Donte Stallworth
Comment: I still question the competence of quarterback Joe Flacco, but I'd rate the Ravens' group of receivers as the best in the AFC North, a far cry from what I would've rated them the past few seasons. Mason is still a very good possession receiver, and Boldin brings that same dynamic but at a higher level. Stallworth has a chance to rejuvenate his career and always did well as a deep threat -- we all know Flacco loves launching the ball at times too.
Cincinnati Bengals
Returning Threats: Chad Ochocinco, Andre Caldwell
New Threats: Antonio Bryant
Comment: The Bengals did not retain Laveranues Coles in the offseason, but that shouldn't be too big of a loss for them. The Bengals added Bryant, who seems to be the "rent-a-receiver and I'll do okay" receiver in the NFL. I really look for the Bengals to add another receiver in either the first (Dez Bryant?) or second rounds, because so far the selection of Jerome Simpson a couple of years ago hasn't paid off.
Cleveland Browns
Returning Threats Players: Mohamed Massaquoi, Brian Robiskie, Chansi Stuckey
New Threats: No one, literally
Comment: The receiver situation for the Browns looks ugly. For simplicity, I did not list Joshua Cribbs -- we know the threat he offers, but we can't classify him as a pure wide receiver. It seems to make sense that the Browns should address the receiver position in the draft, especially after Mike Holmgren announced that the team does not plan to pursue any veteran free agent receivers.
After spending two second-round picks on Massaquoi and Robiskie last year though, I think you still have to wait another season out to see how each of the players perform with Jake Delhomme. Also, if we were to invest another high pick in a receiver, I'd rather have our quarterback of the future already starting to sort of allow the duo to build a relationship from the get go. Sadly, our receiver situation again looks to be the worst in the division.
(Note: It wouldn't surprise me to see a receiver selected in round three)
Pittsburgh Steelers
Returning Threats: Hines Ward, Mike Wallace, Limas Sweed
New Threats: Antwaan Randle El, Arnaz Battle
Comment: The Steelers can immediately bump Wallace up to the No. 2 position. Wallace had an outstanding season for a rookie third rounder last year, catching 39 passes for 756 yards and 6 touchdowns. He averaged nearly 20 yards per catch. Sweed has been stashed away for two years, so it's hard to tell if he'll be given a chance to contribute.
Battle has the ability to be your typical No. 4 or No. 5 veteran receiver, while Randle El's return brings a flash from the past. Pittsburgh will certainly miss Holmes, because right now I don't see them with a viable threat at No. 3. With the Steelers' needs on the offensive line and at cornerback though, I don't anticipate them using a high draft pick on a receiver.
In Summary...
In terms of quality, I'd rate the AFC North receiving groups in the following order: Baltimore, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Cleveland. Would you rank them any differently?
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The way I read it is that the Browns don’t have receivers and won’t have receivers. Jake was brought in to execute in a ball control offense where there is a premium put on experience and understanding how to protect the football. I’m not saying he has a record of protecting the football, only that he understands how to do so when ordered. This, and developing an adequate defense are probably seen as the fastest way to reach respectability from where we are now. Remember, baby steps.
Well, considering what we are working with here, we’re going to have to.
by Western Reserve on Apr 12, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
…kiper said Dez might be coming our way… that position is just as glaring as any other position…
http://prideofcleveland.blogspot.com/
Wide Receivers?
Joe Thomas doesn’t care about Wide Receivers. Until we get a QB, I don’t care either.
Ninjas grow up wanting to be just like Joe Thomas. They usually grow up to be pancaked by Joe Thomas.
by BrownDawg1409 on Apr 12, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
But when you get a QB, you have no one to get the ball too. Chicken or the egg IMO…
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Apr 12, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Not in my mind.
A good QB can win with crap WR’s.
A great WR can’t do jack with a crap QB.
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 12, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Calvin Johnson produced before Staff.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Apr 12, 2010 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Andre Johnson before Schaub.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Apr 12, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
So are Cutler and Knox.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Apr 12, 2010 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions
It wasn’t supposed to be an example of a winning team, it was two examples of WRs doing a heckuva lot more than “jack” with horrible QBs.
The point to make is that not every WR taken in the top 10 is guaranteed to be Johnson or Johnson. In fact, it is quite unlikely that anyone in this draft who would be picked in the top 10 will be that good.
We need weapons at some point, we need a QB at some point. We don’t NEED to get either one in the first round this year.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Maybe we should draft some wideouts named Johnson. Anybody named Johnson in this draft?
"Smokescreen."
Utah Safety Robert Johnson. Conversion to WR?
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Apr 12, 2010 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
3 options:
3 Marcus Johnson from East Central. The link wouldn’t work.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Apr 12, 2010 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
My point wasn’t that they didn’t produce, it was that who gives a shit if you have a WR that’s producing while your QB is garbage? You’re losing regardless.
Great production from a QB so vastly outweighs great production from a WR that it’s silly to have a discussion about which should be the priority.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
On a side note, I just convinced myself of the argument others have made in favor of edge rusher importance over secondary importance.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
There is no doubt in my mind that QB has better positional value than WR.
But if your choice is Vince Young vs. Calvin Johnson, I think you go Calvin Johnson (pre draft stock, ignoring how they’ve done in the NFL to this point). The point I was trying to make is that a GREAT (Johnson-level) WR can make an big impact even if you have Jon Kitna or David Carr back there.
Obviously, you take Manning or Brees or Brady over any WR every time. I think Bradford is the only QB with a good chance of becoming a superstar in this class, I don’t put any of these WR in the Johnson category.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Define big impact? How many more wins does a Megatron get you over, say, Greg Jennings?
How about Tom Brady over Eli Manning? More importantly, how about the win increase between Jake Delhomme and Eli Manning vs. the win increase from Massaquoi to Calvin Johnson?
I say an Eli gets this team more wins than a CJ.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
The offense never totally decides wins.
I tend to think Eli is a much better QB than everyone gives him credit for and would take him over either Johnson now or on draft day.
I would have taken either Johnson over a lot of 1st round QBs on draft day; Vince Young, Sanchez, Flacco, JaMarcus, Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers (I would have been dead wrong on this one), Jason Campbell, Losman, Cutler (still up in the air).
In this draft, I would take Bradford over Johnsons over Clausen over Dez Bryant.
Also, upgrading the 2010 Browns specifically is a different story because of the ages and talent levels of the players involved. Holmgren admitted Delhomme has not been a good QB for several years and he’s on the wrong side of 30. Massaquoi is promising and young. You have to look at the context of the team.
QB makes a bigger impact than WR, which has always been something I agree with. But a few WRs can make an impact on a game without a good QB.
I guess what I am trying to say really boils down to BPA vs. need. It doesn’t matter what kind of impact a good QB can have on the game if you are picking between Byron Leftwich, Alex Smith, and Jason Campbell. Picking either Johnson (a very rare sure #1 star WR) over a QB who might turn out to be the franchise is a good idea. Passing up Eli or Bradford or Peyton is a terrible idea.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I agree with all of this with the added caveat I posted below, that in the case of choosing a sure-star WR over a potential B level, I’d try to trade down and collect a hefty ransom from a team that covets said WR.
I think you could gain more winshare by stockpiling other positions at the expense of the WR position prior to having a franchise QB.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
Great production from a QB so vastly outweighs great production from a WR that it’s silly to have a discussion about which should be the priority.
I’m pretty sure that every football coach and fan would agree that a QB is much more important to a team than a WR, but that doesn’t mean that you have to get a great QB before you get great WR, which was the argument. We’ve seen examples of great WR putting up big numbers with mediocre QB’s, so it can be done.
As rufio said, we need a great QB AND a great WR. I personally don’t care which one we get first. Now, we might not have either one available to us at 7, but if there was a WR there who our front office thought was going to be a star then I’d have no problem taking him, even with our crappy QB situation. We’ve demonstrated many times that most WR’s take a couple years in the NFL to develop anyways, so if you get a good young WR now and let him develop for a year or two then hopefully he’ll be great by the time we get our future QB and he can help him develop.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 13, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
The argument was “chicken or egg?” That it makes no difference if you get one before the other. I say it does, because if you get the QB first you’ll win more games sooner, even if you eventually reach the same record.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
I know what the argument was, and I knew what you said. I explained that all in my comment.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 13, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
that doesn’t mean that you have to get a great QB before you get great WR, which was the argument.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
Well, you’re looking at one side of the argument and I’m looking at the other. But it’s the same argument, we just quoted it different ways.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 13, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, all I’m saying is that it’s better to get the QB first if possible as you’ll win more games that way.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
Yes, I know that. I was disagreeing.
Well, I don’t know if I was disagreeing with that statement. You never said it’s better to get the QB first “if possible”. I agree with that. I disagree with the premise that you shouldn’t worry about getting ANY great WR until you have a great QB, which is what Bernie said when this discussion began and you were supporting with your statements.
As we said, of course the QB position is more important than the WR position. Every knows that. So, yes, it’s better to get the QB first if possible. But if that’s not possible, I have no problem getting a great WR if one is available before we address the QB position. A great WR can make any QB look better.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 13, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Well then, I’ll state clearly. I’m with B19 on this.
I honestly don’t care to spend resources on a WR until we have a real QB. I just don’t think a WR can win (a significant amount of) games on his own. Short of some hypothetical scenario where we’d be passing on a potential HoF WR, I’d rather spend resources (read, draft picks) on other areas that can better impact wins and losses.
Like OLB.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
I disagree with the premise that you shouldn’t worry about getting ANY great WR until you have a great QB, which is what Bernie said when this discussion began and you were supporting with your statements.
I should probably have been more clear.
I think WR’s, except for the top 10-12 guys in this league, are mostly the same value wise to me. They may do some things better than others, but when it comes down to it, Devin Hester is just as valuable to me as MoMass.
So in my mind, why try to find one of the 10-12 difference makers, when we can just grab 4 guys who all do their jobs well, and worry about it later?
Would you rather have the Texans WR’s or the New York Giant WR’s? If it were me, I would pick the Giants easily.
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 13, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
But if you are sitting there and choosing between one of the Johnsons and a second-tier QB that you aren’t confident about, it makes a lot of sense to grab the WR.
Take the player you are sure about.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Always take the player that you are more confident in.
That being said, I have been supremely confident about 3-4 WR’s coming out of college over the past ten years.
What can I say? I am a hard to please a-hole.
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 14, 2010 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s fine, but in that hypothetical I’d rather the 2010 Browns trade down to someone else and collect a ransom for the future HoF WR.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
This.
Trade down. Offensive playmakers are almost always over-rated.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Apr 14, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t consider Bryant to be that good.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Not saying what is more important, but I think to get full value out of your QB he needs someone to throw to.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Apr 12, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
You wouldn’t rather be getting decent production out of a good QB than decent production out of a good WR?
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
No what I’m trying to say is that you need to have both at the same time.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Apr 12, 2010 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions
But you don’t.
Brady won with garbage WR’s.
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 13, 2010 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Most QB’s aren’t Tom Brady.
Look, every Super Bowl winning team is deficient in some area of their team. No NFL team is loaded at every position. But that doesn’t mean we can ignore a certain position just because other teams have won with bad players there. Especially with the rule changes they’ve made in the NFL over the last 10-15 years which favor the passing game, it’s very difficult now to win without a great passing game. Teams can’t just run the ball and win like the used to decades ago. So upgrading our WR position should be a high priority, not necessarily this year but soon.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 13, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not saying that you don’t need a passing game.
I am saying that with the rule changes, IMO, it has taken away from the importance of great WR’s. Before, only the elite guys could change games because the defense were able to grab, hold, and impede the WR.
Now we see every week average to decent WR’s having huge days (Jabar Gaffney going for 14 catches and 213 yards or Devin Aroshamadu with 7 for 150 in week 16 just for instance). As we know, after five yards everyone is free to roam.
Give a good QB even decent targets, and he will/should make it work. Eli Manning had his best season this year with question marks at WR. McNabb made a career out of it before TO.
I’m not saying we ignore it, but I wouldn’t use a pick in the first three rounds on a WR. Add someone late and see what we come up with.
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 13, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
There are some guys I would use picks on in the first 3 rounds.
Maybe Roberts in the 3rd. Tate in the 3rd easily, maybe later in the 2nd. Decker or Damian Williams in the 3rd. Benn or Thomas in the 2nd. I’d probably be ok with Gilyard in the 3rd. LaFell or Price in the 3rd with one of our later picks. Bryant in the 2nd.
Ignoring the players themselves and completely eliminating a position from consideration at any pick past maybe the top-10 is a mistake IMO. Maybe you bump guys down the board a few spots due to position, but at some point their talent would just demand that you pick them.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
If I sounded like I was speaking in absolutes, it wasn’t meant that way. You can never really do that with a fluid thing like the draft. After all, I was in the Crabtree camp last season (This has more to do with my belief that Crabtree will be a Pro Bowler in the next two seasons than anything).
I see the WR’s in this draft being “meh” at best. There are only two I am really high on and those are Benn and M. Williams. My only problem with Benn is that he will probably take the second round pick, and that makes me uncomfortable. We have bigger needs right now.
That is why I said nothing in the first two, because I don’t think we will be getting bang for our buck.
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 14, 2010 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Fair. But you did say first three. And I would probably spend a 2nd rounder on a WR if the right guy were there. I really like Benn, and I would probably take him in the 2nd depending on who else was there.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
While I like benn, I think that second round pick is going to be the quarterback. I feel like the dropoff from round 2 to round 3 wideouts isn’t nearly as drastic as the disparity between McCoy / Tebow and the later round QBs.
I’ll take Tebow/McCoy and Andre Roberts/Jacoby Ford over Benn/Damian WIlliams and Pike/LeFevour/etc.
P
"Smokescreen."
I think brady has done his best work with good wide receivers. It is nice for a quarterback to have targets. But the trick is that the best wide receivers aren’t aways drafted high. Guys like wes welker who aren’t the most physically gifted but just have a knack for getting open and catching the ball can be found in later rounds. Meanwhile it is rare to find a late gem at the quarterback position. That is one reason why I think it is usually better to draft the QB in the first round.
"Smokescreen."
I don’t necessarily think there’s a correlation there. As davail said, their defense has gotten worse since they last won a Super Bowl.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 13, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
This is part of it certainly.
The question for me then is was defense and rushing sacrificed some in order to build up the passing game? Perhaps they spent too many resources looking to bolster that passing attack while neglecting positions that I tend to value more. No team can be great in every single area as you mentioned before. Perhaps the the emphasis on building the passing game was at the expense of the defense. I think the Patriots are now a worse team for it.
It’s possible, but I think we should focus on common ground: the fact that New England fans are bandwagon, front-running, miserable bastards that would trade a Super Bowl for a regular season Red Sox win over the Yankees.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
by danvail on Apr 13, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
The Patriots have no pass rush anymore.
The gambles that they have taken (Adalius Thomas and Derrick Burgess) have not panned out.
30 and 31 sacks over the past two seasons isn’t going to cut it.
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 13, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Wes Welker benefits from playing along side of the best WR of our era and a system that is perfect for him.
Julian Eldeman will put up 85-90% of what Welker usually does this season.
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 13, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
If Julian Edelman can give the pats most of what welker gives them then that speaks volumes about Edelman. If you watch the tape of Welker he isn’t just the beneficiary of having randy moss across the field. Welker has rare ability to read coverages and adjust his routes in order to get open on the fly. Welker’s success is a testament to a guy who is unique in his ability to do the little things right and a coach who is the best in the business at building a gameplan that takes advantage of the talents of his personnel.
"Smokescreen."
Then why wasn’t Wes awesome in Miami or San Diego?
He had a higher YPC in Miami. He was just an average guy there.
He is a glorified safety valve in NE. His routes are no longer than 5 yards. He runs 5 yard patterns and waits for Brady to dump it to him when Moss is covered deep.
The game that Welker went down? Edelman came in and caught 10 passes for 103 yards. Playoffs he went for 6 catches for 44 yards and 2 TD’s. Sounds like Wes Welker numbers to me.
Welker is overblown. It is the system that he was dropped into.
Smart? Sure. Talented? Meh. Replaceable? 100%.
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 13, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
then why cant any old guy just like him do what he does with other teams? Because Welker has skills and Belicheck knows how to employ them.
"Smokescreen."
then why cant any old guy just like him do what he does with other teams?
Because other teams don’t have Randy Moss and Tom Brady. That was my original point.
Because Welker has skills and Belicheck knows how to employ them.
Sigh.
Here is a previous rant of mine on Wes Welker:
Please allow me to explain my Wes Welker hate:
He is the luckiest SOB on earth. He plays with the one WR on earth that makes everyone around him 10x better. He is a good WR playing in a perfect system.
Randy Moss makes anyone look good. For the love of God when he was in the midst of trying to kill his career in Oakland he was still able to make Jerry Porter look like a decent WR. Porter posted back-to-back near 1,000 yard seasons with Moss. Jerry freakin Porter!
He goes to New England and he makes Donte Stallworth look good, and Wes Welker like a Pro Bowler. Look at Welkers career stats, without Moss, he was Antwann Randle El.
Wes Welker is the least explosive WR in the NFL. He had 123 catches on the season. 8 of them went for more than 20 yards! That is 6.5% of his catches went for 20 yards! Jason Avant, Heath Miller, Todd Heap, Michael Crabtree (in a half season!), Zach Miller, Austin Collie, and Jermichael Finley all had more than Welker! Announcers all say that Wes Welker is a first down machine but his first down percentage sucked at 57.7%.
Edelman will be able to fill in for Welker and give the Pats 85% of what they got from Welker next season. I wonder if Edelman will be called a great WR or just a dude who is in the right place at the right time?
Did I mention that Wes Welker killed me in my FF finals (PPR league) two weeks ago? F-ck you Wes Welker.
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 14, 2010 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
If welker was such a stiff, the opposing teams would be able to cover him man-to-man and Moss’ presence wouldn’t matter one iota. Give belicheck some credit and don’t oversell randy moss.
"Smokescreen."
Do you not read? The reason Welker is successful is because of the system of BB AND Randy Moss.
BB gets plenty of love in this.
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 16, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
to get full value out of your QB you need some receivers who can get open and catch the ball. This much is true.
"Smokescreen."
besides reggie wayne, who does peyton throw too? decent players but none are extremely talented.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Dallas Clark is underrated. And he is rated pretty high.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
There is neither a chicken nor an egg, there is only Joe Thomas. The Alpha and the Omega.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
by Villeslgr on Apr 13, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
joe thomas will take your chicken and your egg, eat them, then spit the shell and bones in your face. then pancake you.
joe thomas will take your chicken and your egg, eat them, then spit the shell and bones in your face. then pancake you.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
by danvail on Apr 13, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I do think that adding Ben Watson will help our group of receivers. I know he isn’t a wide receiver, but at least now we have two guys who can run and catch the ball at an NFL level in him and MoMass.
Let’s face it, Robert Royal was awful last year, and wasn’t a threat to beat LBs one on one. That freed defenses to either double our WRs or blitz the hell out of us if they had good corners (Green Bay). If we do it right, we can design plays where either Massaqoi or Watson is effectively one-on-one (with the other probably drawing safety help). If teams roll a lot of help (both safeties and/or four total players) toward Massaquoi and Watson, our other WRs need to be able to beat their one-on-one matchups. That’s far from a lock at this point, but I think it is reasonable to hope for.
Here’s hoping we draft at least one pass catcher.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I’m actually interested to see if we pass out of a lot of two TE sets since Moore proved he was an NFL player last year. We can line up in double tight and run the ball and then throw in some nice play action without having to change personnel.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Apr 12, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
This is something that I would really like to see.
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 12, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
It would make sense for us, particularly if Harrison and/or Vickers and/or Hillis can display consistent hands out of the backfield.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
In response to those who mentioned Watson — yes, he definitely adds a threat, but I tried to isolate the receiver position. Otherwise, you start getting into also listing the Heath Millers and Todd Heaps.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
I got it, and I think it is fair to keep TEs out of the question when looking at specific personnel like you did. I am just excited about potentially not having a receiving void over the middle of the field. We probably have the worst WRs in the league.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Lets just hope that Robo can get on the field this year. With his size you’d hope he could become a productive NFL player. He is certainly not going to terrify anyone but It would be nice if he could take that #1 spot in the lineup opposite Massaquoi this season. Then all we would really need is one burner who could stretch the defense and make plays from the slot. The guy I like is Andre Roberts.
"Smokescreen."
Golden Tate
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Apr 12, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I like him too, but in the 2nd round…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he was gone. Weis could Take him for the chiefs and the bucs also need receivers
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Apr 13, 2010 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Even Dorn likes Tate. He’s the reason the Irish didn’t finish 0-12.
Just kidding, of course, Dorn.
by Western Reserve on Apr 13, 2010 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I dunno…I can understand why teams don’t want him…but I would have given a 5th rounder for Holmes. To me the probability of him working out is higher than a 5th rounder even making the team.
On another note…remember my prediction that eventually Winslow goes there, or to Pitt, Baltimore, or Cincy. It HAS to happen, and he will be only decent with them and yet will have MONSTER stats against us. It’s just how things work. (sigh)
It would seem to me, that you feel threatened by the Eric Ghiaciuc acquisition.
Holmes talent-wise is clearly worth more than a 5th rounder. There are 2 issues:
a. The Steelers would not trade him to us
2. Holmes is a scumbag and the Browns are not trying to acquire players like him
also his contract is up after the season, so the jets will have to either re-sign him or get just those 12 games
"Smokescreen."
Not if he goes for 80 and 1,250 again.
Small chance, but the chance is still there.
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 13, 2010 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions
i like that you used “a” and “2.” instead of sticking to one system.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Apr 12, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
a. …I dunno…I didnt think the Eagles would trade McNabb to the redskins either.
2. I guess…I understand why not but a 5th rounder isn’t really that big of a risk. If he doesn’t tow the line get rid of him. We have PLENTY of pics in this draft. I woulda at least given a former super bowl MVP from OSU a shot. Maybe he might have worked out…
It would seem to me, that you feel threatened by the Eric Ghiaciuc acquisition.
by johnnyphoenix on Apr 12, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
also, at this point I don’t really think the steelers consider us more threatening than the Jets…they would be more likely to trade him to us.
It would seem to me, that you feel threatened by the Eric Ghiaciuc acquisition.
by johnnyphoenix on Apr 12, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
…dump him in the land where players come to end their careers in misery…lol..or so we’re seen right now.
It would seem to me, that you feel threatened by the Eric Ghiaciuc acquisition.
by johnnyphoenix on Apr 12, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Santonio Holmes was a blue chip type player, if it was boxing he´d have the golden gloves, if it was baseball he´d have the golden glove. When I first saw him, I thought he has Hall of Fame potential.
What has he done wrong? He allowed himself to be doubted through potential public malignation, the court cases. He´s been defeated by image.
In an honest world the majority of people realize who the great talents are, if they flub it up for themselves it gets pretty expensive not expansive.
This move should defeat his potential, how many Hall of Famers do you know that were traded after four years?
The Steelers and Colts are the two teams in this era that won the Super Bowl without a glimmer of doubt. The Steelers for one were stocked with talent, making the no doubt even more stark. As we´ve often seen, champions have to make sacrifices for the wishing well. That´s what this is. Jettisoning a troubled person however stinks.
Browns will select A QB
The only shot of not selecting a QB is if Berry is available. Clausen review from Holmgren may have been a smoke screen. They will select a QB in the first two rounds. Look at Colt McCoy.
Why is there no interest in McClain?
there are a million draft threads on this site, and you chose to post this here?
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Apr 13, 2010 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
So, the Browns won’t be turning any heads next season. No flashy pass offense like last season’s I guess!
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Apr 13, 2010 5:25 PM EDT reply actions
Well we do have the flash package.
*Chuckles.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Apr 14, 2010 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Just saw on the Pittsburgh news there are trade rumors involving BB going to the Rams.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Apr 13, 2010 7:32 PM EDT reply actions
That will never happen but if it did, the sky would open up over Cleveland permanently – forever banishing gray clouds and rainy nights.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
not so fast, sam bradford would probably be going the other way.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Apr 13, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
You think the Rams would trade the #1 for that jackass and his massive contract?
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
they’d be getting a proven quarterback with baggage for an unproven one with a big contract of his own.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Apr 13, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not saying it’s out of the question, I just don’t think I’d do it if I were the Rams. I’d be extremely concerned about how much the Steelers knew beyond what I as the Rams FO knew about his indiscretions.
Why are you willing to trade me a top level QB in his prime? I’d have to only be giving up something I could afford to lose, and you can’t afford to lose (or lose on) a #1 pick if you want to be a successful franchise anytime soon.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
BB is also approaching 30. Don’t think any player is worth a #1 pick at that age.
Big Ben will die a Yinzer and we will rain down the hate on him every match day. Wouldn’t have it any other way. We have a lot of work to catch up with him, but we’ll get him.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Apr 14, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
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