Two quick questions for Dawg fans
As a Bronco fan thinking about which direction to go in the draft I have two really quick questions.
1. From the outsider's perspective it seems like your run game really improved this year. How much of that do you think is because of obtaining Alex Mack in the draft? I ask this because I am debating whether or not to target Maurkice Pouncey this year. In other words, to what degree was your improvement based on your new young stud center?
2. I have read articles that say your defensive line was actually better without Shaun Rogers in. I am a Dan Williams supporter in the upcoming draft and I am wondering why it is remotely possible your run defense might be better without Rogers. Any ideas?
3. Oh, I lied, 3 questions actually. Do you guys want Tony Scheffler (TE) for one of your thirds?
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From what I saw, most of our success running came on the outside. While Mack is improving and doing a fine job, I think we could hae done the same thing with Hank Fraley in there. That being said, you can depend solely on the outside running game, as teams will catch on. As long as Mack continues to improve, we should become an even better running offense because inside runs will be used effectively as well. Pouncey looks like a more solid prospect than Mack coming out of college, so it wouldn’t be a bad draft choice by any means.
Disagree with most of this.
Mack is far better than Fraley and was a huge part of our run game success the last 5 games of the years. Fraley was cut even with reasonable salary remaining on his contract which I believe speaks to his diminishing skills.
The theory is that Rogers was better at penetrating the offensive line, but he would leave a hole or not stay in position allowing teams to exploit the vacated nose tackle area. Athyba Rubin was more of a type of fat nose tackle that would occupy two blockers while staying put. The question has been debated here with arguments from both sides, but our run defense statistically did improve with Rubin in and Rogers out.
I don’t think we would give up a 3rd round pick for a tight end after signing Ben Watson.
I’m not saying Mack had no impact, but would you agree that most of our success stemmed from runs bounced to the outside. With more experience I think he will be a great center, but as far as last year’s success I think it had more to do with having a faster back in there who was able to bounce runs.
1) Mack did a great job coming off the line last year and getting a hat on LB’s in the defense. I think he greatly helped our running game.
2) Dorn explained it perfectly about Rogers above.
3) No, again Dorn said that one perfectly
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
The Center often must get up to the second level to block LBs, and if those LBs are allowed to flow outside where you are trying to run, your outside runs don’t work. If he isn’t getting up the field, he has to stop some sort of backside pursuit. “Do your job” is a cliché for a reason; everyone must or the run game fails.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I realize that, but I’m saying it seemed that runs had to be bounced outside fairly often which would indicate the holes weren’t there inside on designed interior runs. I’m not knocking Mack at all, I’m just saying that he needs more experience, but will become a solid center for us for some time.
We ran (and had success on) a lot of trap (and counter?) plays, if I remember correctly. This would mean the run wasn’t designed to go near Mack. Mack’s job would have been to take care of the big guy in front of him and to move him away from the hole if possible. These also might look like “cutbacks” or “bounces” or like the back didn’t have a hole in the designed area and had to look for one elsewhere.
I plan on looking at the run game quite closely after I get the hell out of school for the summer. I’ll look for runs that had to be bounced.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I agree mack was a factor, but I don’t know if it was enough to justify reaching for pouncey…and mack is better drive blocking than pouncey anyways. I also think a major factor was the blocking of Vickers and his improvement.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Mack absolutely was a great pick. Our running game improved tremendously and it is rare to find a guy to start at center from day 1. Center is probably right up there with quarterback in terms of mentally demanding positions and Mack performed admirably. I don’t know if Pouncey can be what I think Alex Mack is going to be (10 year man in the nfl, several pro bowls) but definitely center would be a decent investment.
Shaun Rogers didn’t “stick to the plan” as much as Eric Mangini would have liked I think. Mangini’s defense calls for the nose tackle to “two-gap” (essentially take himself out of the play sometimes in order to prevent blockers from getting up to the linebackers) I don’t think Rogers likes to do this, Rubin excelled at it.
No to scheffler. As much as I like him I think we are alright at the TE position.
"Smokescreen."
I think the ineffectiveness of rogers though has been a bit overblown. our run defense improved but was that directly a result of tuba rubin being in their instead of rogers? or was it the defense finally clicking and understanding the scheme as a whole?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I ask this because I am debating whether or not to target Maurkice Pouncey this year
Are you a GM with an NFL team? Weird comment.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Apr 15, 2010 1:36 PM EDT reply actions
for future reference, on this site its common to leave out the subject line, we find it to be distracting and unnecessary. also, please use the reply button.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Apr 15, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
1. Yes, Alex Mack was a great pick. Factor in that he sees 3-4 defenses in two division rivals it becomes even more important. Fraley was owned by massive NT’s and an upgrade was massively important. The Browns can now have a power running game.
2. The evidence for the defense being better without Rogers is a small sample size. The difference was .29 YPC. Here is a better breakdown. I am in the camp that Rogers is still our best NT.
3. Hells to the naw.
we were better without Rogers....he was out and we won our last 4 games
Ben watson will do we dont need scheffler….Alex mack turned out to be a great choice
Rogers was out and we won our last 4 games — obviously, that means that we won because Rogers was out!!!
Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.
Lisa: That’s spacious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thank you, dear.
Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Oh, how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn’t work.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It’s just a stupid rock.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don’t see any tigers around, do you?
[Homer thinks of this, then pulls out some money]
Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Apr 16, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Is this your new shtick?
Everything seems less funny to me since I quit drinking.
by Brownie's Year on Apr 16, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
1. Alex Mack was a tremendous pick. I do not think Pouncey is/will be as good, though. Mack did struggle at the beginning of the year on some shotgun snaps, and played a little undisciplined/was “thinking and not reacting”. Once he settled in, he made a huge impact.
2. The defense was better without Rogers. I don’t think Rogers being out was the cause of that improvement. I think Rogers is our best NT, but our best combination of 3 DL probably includes both Rogers and Rubin, which means Rogers at DE. I am fine with this some of the time, as we will probably rotate 4-5 DL regularly. Rogers is just such a physical talent that you MUST account for him at the NT position, while Rubin isn’t as big of a threat to offenses IMO. I wouldn’t be opposed to taking Dan Williams in the right scenario despite the apparent lack of need.
3. No way. I’d like to have 2 TE who are pass threats, but I’m willing to give Evan Moore a chance to be the #2 guy, and I think we could draft someone who would be more valuable to our team in the 3rd.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
i agree with you but on #3 as much i like Moore i have a feeling that as long as Royal is on the team he wont get that chance. we can still hope though
we don't need no stinking logo
by NoLogos4Life on Apr 16, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Daboll will still send him into routes though, which is the problem. If every time Royal is on the field he is responsible for run blocking, we become awfully predictable. Not that we weren’t last year, but our coaches want to be versatile and multiple. Royal is not a very versatile guy at a position that demands it.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
we got it covered this year

A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
by Kimble_79 on Apr 19, 2010 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
honestly, i was under the impression we had already gotten rid of him.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Apr 18, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
3. Oh, I lied, 3 questions actually. Do you guys want Tony Scheffler (TE) for one of your thirds?
Looks like you overestimated his market value by just a bit.
You are reading my signature.
So the Broncos gave up Scheffler and a 7th for a 5th?
Wow. No kidding.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
If Ernie Sims can stay healthy, that was a nice addition.
For as much love as New Englands front office gets, deservedly so, Philly is always making smart moves.
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 19, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s funny to read through the fanshot at the MileHighReport, where optimistic fans debated which of Philly’s 2nd or 3rd round picks they’d receive in return, only to see that turn into a 5th, as well as costing them a 7th.
Didn’t Scheffler have some minor attitude problems with management or McDaniels at some point last year? They seem to have no problem in dumping anyone who can’t toe the party line.
You are reading my signature.
The same fans who thought Andra Davis was the answer to their ILB prayers? Or that thought their C could handle Shaun Rogers one on one?
Scheffler did get in the doghouse with McDaniels and was inactive for week 17 if I remember correctly.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Yea, it was basically an issue with McDaniels who told Scheffler he was not playing in week 17. 4 guys McDaniels had problems with are all gone now: Cutler, Marshall, Hillis, and Scheffler.
I’m just glad that we got the one that made a pass at McDaniels’ wife.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Apr 20, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Rec for supporting support of low morals.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
by Villeslgr on Apr 21, 2010 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
rec for supporting supporting support of low morals.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Apr 21, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
which i am.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Apr 22, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions

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