Browns Game Changing Offseason Moves: Starting Over at Quarterback
by Chris Pokorny on May 14, 2010 9:41 PM EDT
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This is the third edition of this series that we'll be doing over the next few months, highlighting game-changing moves that have occurred since the end of last season. The first one was about keeping KR Joshua Cribbs a member of the Browns, and the second one was about the new look to the secondary this year. This week, we talk about something we lost: both of our "starting" quarterbacks from a year ago.
Game-Changing Offseason Move #3: Out With the Old Quarterbacks
By "out with the old quarterbacks," I'm not referring to age. Both Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn were fairly young players. Despite that youth, when the new front office came in, they didn't want anything to do with the tandem anymore. Anderson was released and he later signed with the Arizona Cardinals. Quinn was shipped to the Denver Broncos for fullback Peyton Hillis and some change. The tandem became the next generation of competing quarterbacks on the Browns to find themselves completely removed from the team within a year or so.
This post isn't meant to rehash the old quarterback debate on whether or not we should have kept Quinn and given him more time to develop. Instead, the post is meant to highlight how the decision impacts us this coming season. What's done is done.
The new front office showed that they did not have faith that either Anderson or Quinn would be successful quarterbacks in the future with the Browns. By shipping out both quarterbacks and bringing in veteran Jake Delhomme as opposed to someone else on the market (Donovan McNabb), it also sends a message that there isn't a rush to find a franchise quarterback just yet.
The team isn't going to make a move just for the sake of making it. That was clearly seen by the draft -- Holmgren reportedly shoved "all in" in an attempt to acquire Sam Bradford, but the Rams didn't budge. Rather than "settle" for a Tim Tebow, Colt McCoy, or Jimmy Clausen, Holmgren and company thought better of it and decided to wait. Yes, I know we still ended up drafting McCoy, but by the time we selected him, it certainly came off as more of a "value pick opportunity" than a "this is the guy we wanted all along" message.
Keeping in mind that the quarterback situation will be handled carefully, that's where Delhomme will try to be a one to two-year holdover. Fans discounted the signing at first, but I think we've seen too many quarterbacks in the NFL have turnaround seasons to just write him off before we even see him in action in orange and brown.
If Delhomme struggles this season, fans will definitely be frustrated, but at least we shouldn't have the same old "Anderson vs. Quinn" debates where it's "pick your poison of horrible accuracy week" heading into every game. The Browns are starting fresh at quarterback with an old player, but we have an understanding of what his role is, and in the end, I think we can accept that knowing that a guy like Holmgren will eventually get the player he wants to become the face of the franchise.
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Oh, the irony. Just made a comment about discussing something other than the QBs and reloaded the main page to see this.
Anyways, I think this has the chance of being a bit different from previous years when veterans were brought in as holdovers until the guy could be found and groomed. For one thing, the O-line is much better than it was in those previous situations. I also think that Delhomme has a bit more to offer than, say, Trent Dilfer.
and, to a lesser extent, chirs gimenez.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on May 15, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
For some reason I’m thinking of the Indians’ player last year, but I’m assuming you aren’t referring to him?
Yes he is referring to that Chris Gimenez. It’s an inside joke from LGT.
by Buckeye Brad on May 16, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
You know, now that I think about it – I’m really glad Delhomme is our QB this year. Since I won’t be able to watch a minute of the games, it’s nice to know I won’t be missing anything.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
by danvail on May 14, 2010 10:54 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I really hope J-Del surprises you guys. With our line he should do fine. It’s our receivers I’m worried about.
The Maniac’s here.
by Brownie's Year on May 15, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Good play out of Delhomme would certainly be a pleasant outcome, I’m just not expecting it.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
I am expecting better than last year, because we were historically awful last year.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I am not expecting more than pedestrin numbers from Jake, but pedestrian numbers at QB are still better than what we’ve had the previous two years with Anderquinn.
There’s a lot of concern about his age too. Let’s remember Jake’s a young 35. He didn’t earn a starting position in the League until maybe his 4th or 5th year.
As far as his interception troubles, we should see him at least cut them in half with the better protection from Thomas and Steinbach will give him.
He should also benefit from the RB and TE squads we’ve assembled. More options underneath always reflects in a QB’s completions pct. and interception ratio.
by theotherJimBrown on May 16, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I have mixed emotions about them trading Quinn. On one hand, the Browns mismanaged his career from the start, and last season he had absolutely nothing to work with in terms of receivers. There was simply no way that he could excel in that poor excuse for an offense. Furthermore, the fact the he had to learn two new offenses in the three years he was here complicates things even further. In a total of 13 starts, some of those coming last season, he simply didn’t have a fair shot to prove himself.
On the other hand, I am happy they signed Jake Delhomme and drafted Colt McCoy. Colt McCoy has an excellent mentor from whom to learn. Despite the year he had last year, Delhomme is a good quarterback who has proven that he can win in the NFL. Also, the tandem of Seneca Wallace and Josh Cribbs throws a nice X-factor into the mix. Seneca Wallace has been primarily a career back-up, but he would have a hard time sucking it up worse than the way Anderson has in the last couple of years. We’re no worse off with him than we were with Anderson. Also, given the choice between Quinn and Colt McCoy, I would choose McCoy every time.
he had plenty of a fair shot. he sucked.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on May 15, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
the Browns mismanaged his career from the start
What does that mean? Give me an example of why you think that is the case. Should he have started his first year? His second? After DA’s solid year in 2007? Seriously. BQ had a shot; how was his career “mismanaged” by the Browns?
by TheDriveStillHurts on May 15, 2010 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Josh Cribbs had the best take on these bogus apologies for Brady Quinn:
I have to ask, do you think that Brady Quinn got a fair shot at being this franchises quarterback?
Like I said before, in this league you have to perform when you get that chance. If that means in a game, great. If you aren’t getting into games, you have to make your mark in practice. Make the coaches put you in the game. So if you think about it in that sense, yeah Brady Quinn got his shot to be the Browns QB.
by TheDriveStillHurts on May 15, 2010 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
This. BQ had his chance here and he blew it big time, not the line, not the recievers, HIM.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on May 15, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I think DA got shafted, moreso than Quinn. Following his pro-bowl season, he had no talent around him. The next year Mangini decided it would be a good idea to keep everyone, including his team guessing about who would start throughout the season. I think we made a mistake in letting him go.
Honestly, this year we aren’t heading to the playoffs in all likelihood, so why not give DA one last chance. I don’t see Delhomme doing anything special, and even if he does, he’s running on E at this point in his career.
DA had the exact same set of weapons he had the year before.
In fact, Savage added Stallworth.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 16, 2010 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Following his pro-bowl season, he had no talent around him.
How is that? Who left after the 2007 season?
by Buckeye Brad on May 16, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah no one left, but Edwards forgot how to play football and, if I’m remembering correctly, Winslow was hurt? Either way, he’s gone now and his numbers didn’t warrant another opportunity, I just liked the guy.
He lost me after throwing enough INT’s to knock us out of contention for the playoffs in ‘07 and then afterwards said something to the effect of "It’s no big deal, I threw four INT’s in one game in college as well". You cost us a playoff spot man, IT IS A BIG DEAL! Not putting all the blame on him, but his media reaction to that just made me lose interest in him.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
DA should have been traded after his ’07 season.
I said it then, and I say it now. We should have struck when the iron was hot.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 16, 2010 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
DA should have been traded after his ’07 season.
I said it then, and I say it now. We should have struck when the iron was hot.
So did I. . . . Oh, uh, I was using reverse psychology after the 2007 season.
by TheDriveStillHurts on May 16, 2010 3:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Did you forget that he was benched in the middle of his third game, not to see the field again for months?
We’re no beter at QB than we were last year or any other year since returning.
by HenryDawg on May 18, 2010 12:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
yes we are, at least we have a shot at being league average.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on May 20, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Couch was also severely mismanaged but still made the playoffs once and threw for 11,000 yds.
Quinderson had protection and a better running game and still couldn’t get it done.
by theotherJimBrown on May 16, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
This.
Whether or not Couch could have been great given better circumstances is a question we’ll never have an answer to. I don’t think he ever could have been Peyton Manning, but it’s reasonable to think that he could have been as good or better than Eli Manning.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
absolutely right. couch could have been pretty damn good if he was on those 2007 – 2008 teams. way better than DA.
Keep knitting, your rationales will not mesh with Browns lore.
Anderson and Quinn were pests in relating and vying for their rightful slots.
Delhomme is washed out, Wallace was pandering to the Seahawks due to Holmgren, and McNabb was the contrary due to Heckert. McCoy is a pretty exciting prospect.
Easy there, buddy. Most people are in fairly close agreement with this view.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
It sounds like a lot of us aren’t expecting a whole lot out of Delhomme. I think the question is: what kind of production would be somewhat acceptable? He will probably continue to turn over the ball. He’ll probably be sub-par. But after what we went through the last 2 seasons, I’ll gladly take his sub-par to that of BQ and DA. It may not be saying much, but he is an upgrade over them. They were atrocious. I’m sure that JD will be able to get the ball downfield and in the hands of the receivers more consistently even if he throws interceptions.
We know that the running game will be the bread and butter this year. Defenses are going to stack 8-10 in the box. If JD has 10-15 completions per game it will be better than BQ/DA. Yeah, 10 completions is a pathetic number but the Browns won with 2 completions last year. It would be an improvement.
This analysis may sound pathetic, but it may be what we’ll be watching this year. It’s just the reality of the situation.
Colt McCoy... the cure for Cleveland's Eric Berry man-crush.
But after what we went through the last 2 seasons, I’ll gladly take his sub-par to that of BQ and DA. It may not be saying much, but he is an upgrade over them. They were atrocious. I’m sure that JD will be able to get the ball downfield and in the hands of the receivers more consistently even if he throws interceptions.
This.
Delhomme would have to be pretty bad to be worse than what we’ve had the last couple of years.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on May 15, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea, I graded our QB’s as a D+ entering this season. I forgot to mention that this grade was up from F-.
by Roger Dorn on May 15, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Recced for F-
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on May 15, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t want to sound like a douche, but I expect Delhomme to worse than DA/Quinn.
But I do expect Seneca Wallace to be pretty good.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 15, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
But I do really hope I am wrong about Delhomme.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 15, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, if it’s anything like your 2008 predictions, you will be.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on May 15, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
You really think he’ll do worse that DAs 42.1 passer rating from last year?
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
DA’s passer rating was that high?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Believe it or not, it was. Had he been 15 points better he would have only been Ryan Leaf bad.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
Anthony
No, really. Are you sure that isn’t his passer rating in his best start? That seems awfully high.
Jake Delhomme was garbage with a better supporting cast, in a weaker conference, and a MUCH weaker division.
Now, he faces the 3rd, 4th and 5th ranked defenses 6 times a season. Why does anyone think this is going to end up well?
I don’t buy the injury excuse. An arm injury doesn’t make you do dumb ass things with the football. That is what Jake does with the football.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 16, 2010 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Quite. It’s a low bar we’re setting here.
That's just noise.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on May 16, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Hermes Conrad would have a hard time shimmying under that bar.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on May 16, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
It’s as low as limbo sticks go!
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on May 16, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
here’s their stats from last season. On paper BQ was better but only because he held onto the ball and didn’t pass enough to make a lot of mistakes. But we saw how off target he was.
QB Delhomme, Jake TDS 8 INT 18 YDS 2,015 RTG 59.4 CLE
QB Anderson, Derek TDS 3 INT 10 YDS 888 RTG 42.1 ARI
QB Quinn, Brady TDS 8 INT 7 YDS 1,339 RTG 67.2 DEN
Colt McCoy... the cure for Cleveland's Eric Berry man-crush.
I expect 2200 yards, 50-55% completion%, and a 1.5:1 TD:INT ratio from Delhomme. I think he could get 2800-3000, 55-60%, and 2 or 2.5:1 if EVERYTHING went his way this year.
Feel free to point out how wrong I was in a year.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I think about 2300-2400 yds, 53-55 comp % and about a 1.2/1 TD/INT ratio with about 6.4-6.5 ypa. Around a 74-75 QB rating…basically average.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I can’t tell if you’re mocking rufio or if you’re being serious here, adding on like 5% and 100 yds.
TD to INT ratio being the biggest difference.
I think it will be more like 55%, 1:1, maybe a 5.75 YPA.
I expect Quinn’s numbers without the hope/delusion of improvement.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
I expect Quinn’s numbers without the hope/delusion of improvement.
I think that will be the biggest difference this season. No one really expects much from Delhomme – certainly no one expects him to be any better than he ever has been. Whereas with Quinn, it was always painful because I kept expecting him to get better and show improvement, but it never really happened.
exactly. even if you go to 2008, before the breakdown, his TD/INT ratio was 1.25/1
He was 1.5/1 in his prime with better WRs than we have. I thought that was overly optimistic…plus he has never ever hit 2/1 TD/INT in a full season.
I agree a lot with what you are saying except maybe a ypa just above 6. I am thinking Comp % and ypa comparable to 2009 but TD/INT comparable to 2008…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I think lacking Steve Smith is going to hurt both Comp % and YPA. Big time.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
Anderquinn put up the worst numbers in Browns history with maybe the Mike Phipps being the exception. That’s saying a lot.
by theotherJimBrown on May 16, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Player A: 178/321 for 55.5%, 2015 yards, 8 TD’s, 18 INT’s, 6.3 YPA
Player B: 217/438 for 49%, 2227 yards, 11 TD’s, 17 INT’s, 5.08 YPA
Player A is Jake Delhomme in a better situation. Player B is Brady Quinn and DA combined stats from last season.
Just sayin’, Seneca Wallace should be the starter.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 16, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate being put in the position to defend Delhomme since I think he sucks as well, but you are really cherry picking one season here. His run from 2003-2008 was much better than anything the Browns have seen excluding the DA fluke.
Was the bad season a sign that his career is over? Quite possibly, but we can’t ignore the fact that for a steady number of years, he has been a serviceable QB, and I think Holmgren and co are hoping for a small bounceback. Seneca Wallace is not and should not be the starter.
Cherry picking really only matters if you consider 2009 an anomaly instead of a trend. You could make that argument with the elbow, possibly, but I don’t really buy it.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
and its a trend that popped up out of nowhere. he was great in ’08 and suddenly had a 10 game meltdown. I believe it was as much mental as physical an it sounds like he is the right mindset.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Sometimes guys just get in a rut and need a change of scenery. Don’t write off Delhomme so quickly, he might be just what we need in terms of veteran leadership and stability at the position for the near future.
"Smokescreen."
That’s certainly plausible. Even if he does provide that leadership and stability, though, he’s still probably going to be much closer to sucking than actually good.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
he [Delhomme] was great in ’08
Nope.
In ’08;
59%, 15-12 ratio, 7.9 YPA
That isn’t great.
We keep hoping for this “bounce back” season, but the problem is that even when he was “good”, he was just okay. This isn’t a Kurt Warner type situation. We are hoping for a game manager that has lost (yes it could be just a aberration) that ability.
I am cool with Jake taking Colt under his wing, but Seneca Wallace should be the QB.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 17, 2010 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah. great was not a good word to describe it. Decent would be better. I am I guess a bit optimistic. I expect him to be pedestrian instead of really bad.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Yes
This is exactly my sentiment on Delhomme Roger. Do I think he will be the greatest QB to ever don a Browns uniform, hell no. Do I think he will be a servicable 1-2 year stop gap until a) Mc Coy develops or b) we get top 5 and Locker next year, absolutley.
Sure his situation in Carolina was better than what the Browns can give him. But, look what he did with in my opinion lesser talent in the 5 previous seasons. The guy can play, he had an injury filled terrible season. But writing this guy off like he is the biggest pos in the world after suffering through years of horse shit QB play?? I will remain quitely optimistic that he turns it around and at least has a mediocore season, which is all we should expect from him at this point.
I can not figure out for the life of me why people are in love with Jake Locker. What has he done? He didn’t even have 60% completion last year. 7.09 ypa? Mark Sanchez had a better last season.
Kill them. Kill them all.
Tools. Jake Locker is a really, really, really good athlete.
He is a top prospect in baseball as well.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 18, 2010 4:14 AM EDT up reply actions
He better sharpen some of those tools, specifically his accuracy
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
What is DA saying in that picture?
"I throw FOUR interceptions when playoff hopes are on the line."
"FOUR was my QB rating last year."
"I own FOUR cars, but failed my driver’s license test."
"I act like a FOUR year old when I lose my job to a pretty boy suckass."
"FOUR!! is what I scream when I shank a throw." He’s a golfer and still can’t spell "fore" correctly.
The Maniac’s here.
by Brownie's Year on May 15, 2010 12:04 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
FOUR years and I’ll be out of the league.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on May 15, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry I was giving him a bit longer to ride the pine and soak up a paycheck.
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on May 15, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Obviously he’s doing a Sprint 4G promo.
by JustBob on May 15, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rizzec
Who will be my role model, now that my role model is gone?
by Brownie's Year on May 15, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Delhomme was a good QB before he injured his elbow in 2007. I think with the change of scenery and another year recouping his elbow he could turn back into his old form. When looking at this stats from Carolina his only bad year was 2009, sure he really sucked it up that year but his pick up is well worth the gamble.
by The Brown Note on May 15, 2010 12:13 PM EDT reply actions
Looking into the future. At some point we will be clamoring for McCoy, with Jake out and assuming Wallace does not scratch the proverbial itch. If he then plays poorly it will be the Seneca/Colt debate (or DA/BQ redux). If he plays well and leads us to 3 superbowl appearance…wait, I forgot he plays for us. I just distracted myself from the point I was going to make when I typed that. Nevermind.
Bernie19Kosar is Right!
Jake Delhomme will blow. I would have kept DA over him and Anderson needed to go. This team has no quarterback at all right now. Delhomme’s career is over, Wallace is not an answer and everyone knows that. Ratliff is an unknown but if he could not get playing time infront of DA or Quinn, I think we know the answer then. McCoy is too small. He is listed as 6’1" and that is a stretch. He also does not have the arm. We saw that with Brady Quinn who did not have the arm. The team will address this need for a Quarterback in the draft next year. 2012 will be the emergence of a quarterback that will lead this team. They acquired quality in the draft this year, be happy with this start.
THE real question is Mangini. Is he starting to build something, or is he clueless? Holmgren won’t let it get too far gone this year without a planned replacement if Mangini loses this team. My prediciton is that Holmgren likes Mangini and Mangini will stay.
Wow.
I’ll just go with the fact that McCoy checked in at OVER 6’1" at the combine, and height is the most objective measurement you can get there. Others have reported that he looks every bit of 6’1".
There is a whole lot more there that I disagree with, but a height measurement from the combine is about as objective as it gets in football.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Have another pint of Old Crow.
by theotherJimBrown on May 16, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would have kept DA over him
this seems ridiculous, even if only for the fact that delhomme has been a pretty decent QB in the past and DA basically never has been. i just haven’t understood the delhomme hate. so he had a bad 2009, so did every other QB we had. give the guy a chance, if he rebounds we got a great deal. if not, it would still be damn near impossible for him to be worse than our previous situation.
right. unlike our previous QBs I feel like Delhomme at least has a chance to bounce back. That’s an improvement.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on May 17, 2010 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions
And it’s not as if he cost the team a ton. Sure, a bit of cash – in an uncapped year – but we didn’t lose any draft picks or players to get him. Since we knew we weren’t going anywhere with the status quo, taking a flyer on Delhomme seems pretty safe and – this most of all – did not downgrade the position one little bit.
Delhomme
Delhomme looked confused in the playoff in against Arizona in January 2009, and he had a horrible year last year. Derek Anderson was not good as a quarterback but he had alot less to work with than did Jake Delhomme. If you forget we cut a PRO BOWL quarterback many years ago for “diminshing skills” and his career was never the same. Delhomme was not the best option out there, it was McNabb. or Jason Campbell. Delhomme will not be the quarteback for the Browns by the end of the year, and it will be a one year and done. At most it will be a two year stint and that is just to mentor some young quarterback. Does anyone at all like our quarterback situation? Does anyone like any quarterback we have? We will never win without a very good quarterback.
I don’t know where to start on this..
1) We have no idea if Delhomme is going to be good/average or play anything like he did last year
2) Seneca Wallace is not that bad of a QB. He is much better alone than what we had last year
3) We have no idea how McCoy is going to turn out, we haven’t seen him take a snap, let alone learn the playbook yet
I wouldn’t say we have the idea situation at QB, but its far from where it was last year.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
If you forget we cut a PRO BOWL quarterback many years ago for "diminshing skills" and his career was never the same
wait…so its the browns fault Kosar only started 3 more games in his career???
Delhomme was not the best option out there, it was McNabb. or Jason Campbell
the thing is, Delhomme wouldn’t have cost us a draft pick. McNabb and Campbell were both signed to teams…just because trades eventually got made for them doesn’t mean they were the easiest options or best options when addressing free agency. I would rather have Delhomme for no picks than give up a second for McNabb or a 4th for Campbell.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
And on top of all the Bross states above, Delhomme’s contract was front end loaded, so if the cap returns next year, he has basically zero effect on us.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
I would rather have Delhomme for no picks than give up a second for McNabb or a 4th for Campbell.
This x10
I would probably have given up the 4th for Campbell.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
that I might have considered…however hte main reason he was even on the market was because the McNabb deal got through. if they didn’t get McNabb, who knows what the price for him had been. it could have been the third we used to get McCoy or Lauvao.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
If you forget we cut a PRO BOWL quarterback many years ago for "diminshing skills" and his career was never the same.
If his career was never the same after he was cut then doesn’t that support the theory that he had diminishing skills?
by Buckeye Brad on May 17, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
yes
That is my point. Kosar was let go because he was not the same quarterback. Do you think Carolina thinks Delhomme who they just signed a few years back to a big contract, is on his way up and will be better? Maybe Carolina figured out his skills were lacking and CUT HIM!!! same as Kosar. So why would we want him at age 35??
You say he was a Superbowl quarterback, so were Tony Eason & Neil O’Donnell who both were the same career passing rating as Delhomme (rating 81)
Delhomme was a bad choice. They jumped too quickly
Do you think Carolina thinks Delhomme who they just signed a few years back to a big contract, is on his way up and will be better?
No.
You say he was a Superbowl quarterback
Ummmm . . . when did I say that?
by Buckeye Brad on May 17, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
so were Tony Eason & Neil O’Donnell who both were the same career passing rating as Delhomme (rating 81)
and once again, how would any of them be worse than what we had last year? delhomme will be better for our team this year, by far, than anything we’ve seen around here in awhile. an 81 QB rating for the season would tickle me pink.
i think holmgren looked at who he could get without giving up much, who could teach a young guy and keep the ship afloat for a year or two, and delhomme was the best option. no one is saying delhomme will be our savior. i think he’s a decent option and will give us an assload more than what we’ve had recently – he brings veteran leadership and NFL level skill.
I really do think that signing Delhomme was a great move. I think he has a lot of experience, he knows how to win, and he seems to be a good team player. Just because he had a bad season doesn’t mean anything. Just look at Brett Farve, he hasdf some bad seasons, but now he almost won the MVP award.
"We don't take no prisoners! I say we kill'em, every other team! That way we don't got to feed them or nothing!
-Coach Kevin Hockett
I think calling the move “great” is a gross exaggeration.
by Buckeye Brad on May 17, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
When you are all clamouring for Delhomme's Head.
My point about Kosar is , when a player who has a great history with a team and the team lets him go (remember Modell had to approve it) the player is on his way out. Favre was not let go from the Packers he retired!. Delhomme was never as good as Kosar. The point is that we do not have a quarterback that is worth getting exciting over. Jason Campbell for a 4th round pick at this point was a steal based on the amount of picks the Browns had. You also have to remember the offense Delhomme had for years and he was benched last year with the same offense team. Seneca Wallace did not even start and he has been in the league more years than Campbell. Wallace is not even 6 feet tall. He has been in the league since 2003 and still had never been a teams number one quarterback, give me a break, is he still learning how to be a quarterback? Maybe he will grow a couple inches after age 30.
Campbell (lifetime quarterback rating 82.3) who is 6’5 was worth a 4th round pick, Here are the players the Browns have drafted in the 4th round since 2002:
Kaluka Maiava, Beau Bell, Martin Rucker, Leon William, Issac Sowells, Antonio Perkin, Luke McCown, Lee Suggs, Kevin Bentley, Ben Taylor, Darnell Sanders
Would you take Campbell over all of them?? Talk sense. This team has no damn quarterback. To compare Favre (one of the all time greats) to Delhomme is ridiculous. Are you even watching football? You are grabbing at things.
Delhomme blows. Seneca Wallace there is a joke, maybe a role player but a starter, no way ever a good starter.
Campbell or McNabb instantly made this team better and the cap crap is bull crap, they could have worked around it. It is not like the Browns have a ton of money in salary. Campbell was the smartest move.
The point is that we do not have a quarterback that is worth getting exciting over.
Nobody thinks that. There isn’t a person here who thinks Delhomme will be great this year and is anything more than a stopgap at quarterback. Who exactly are you trying to convince with all your comments?
To compare Favre (one of the all time greats) to Delhomme is ridiculous.
Once again . . . who is saying this? Who exactly are you arguing with?
by Buckeye Brad on May 17, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
read above at brownsboy comment
He said Favre had a few bad seasons now he almost won a MVP. that was what I was referring to.He was saying that maybe Delhomme had a bad year and could come back. Delhomme was cut, a major defference. Also BRAD, I was not saying you said it, I was saying in general the defense of the Delhomme pick up was that he was a Superbowl quarterback, to me that is a non factor. He is not a good quarterback. Seneca Wallace is in my opinion really a horrible choice for a quarterback.
You are telling me Campbell wasn’t a better choice for a team that does not seem to have a decent quarterback on the roster? Campbell could give a young team 2 or 3 decent years or more, maybe competitive years if surrounded with the right cast, until the right quarterback comes along. What will Delhomme really do with the Browns team?
I also think that people are making alot out of Jerome Harrison and it might not be warranted.
I was saying in general the defense of the Delhomme pick up was that he was a Superbowl quarterback, to me that is a non factor.
If you read this site at all you would know that nobody here is saying that. Please don’t come here to generalize all the crazy comments you’ve heard from Browns fans elsewhere to be the thoughts of the members of this site.
You are telling me Campbell wasn’t a better choice for a team that does not seem to have a decent quarterback on the roster?
There you go again, putting words in my mouth. I never said any of that. Please respond to the thoughts of people here instead of responding to things that you think we think.
by Buckeye Brad on May 17, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, you said “you are all” at the beginning of your comment, which means you are speaking to all of us, not just one person. If you’re responding to one individual comment then use the reply button and repond to that comment. Don’t generalize one comment to represent the beliefs of all the members of this site.
by Buckeye Brad on May 17, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Sir, I think you would very much enjoy Cleveland.com.
Your level of intellect just does not compare to the level here, we are extremely jealous.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on May 17, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Favre was not let go from the Packers he retired!
not completely true. he retired but if he came back , the team still had rights over him. I believe they traded the rights to him to the jets…and if I am wrong, someone else correct me.
The point is that we do not have a quarterback that is worth getting exciting over. Jason Campbell for a 4th round pick at this point was a steal based on the amount of picks the Browns had.
a) I do not believe it was a huge steal to get Campbell with that pick. it might have been a decent deal, but not a huge steal
b) the logistics of the trade are not that simple. he was traded on draft day after, a couple days previously, his team acquired McNabb. It is very likely that the price would have been higher…like a third. in that sense, it isn’t that great of a deal anymore. the reason he was on the market is BECAUSE of the McNabb trade.
c) the way this is phrased, it is implied that Campbell is this QB that is really worth getting excited over and honestly, I do not see that.
You also have to remember the offense Delhomme had for years and he was benched last year with the same offense team
except it wasn’t. the Panthers had 2 WRs over the age of 30. I really like steve smith, but looking at it, 2008 might have been his last year putting up superstar numbers. even if you go by the numbers smith put up in the games that Matt Moore threw to him, he gets 3 more catches and 60 more yards in the season…not a huge difference really. Mushin Muhammad would get one more catch and 70 more yards with Moore…the downward trending WR play went up slightly with Moore but didn’t much improve.
Seneca Wallace did not even start and he has been in the league more years than Campbell
seneca wallace has started 10 games in the last 2 seasons and hasn’t done badly. a very good backup.
Wallace is not even 6 feet tall.
who is 6’5
Fran Tarkenton was 6 feet on a good day. DA is 6’5 when he is severly slouching…Height doesn’t matter as much as you may think.
He has been in the league since 2003 and still had never been a teams number one quarterback, give me a break, is he still learning how to be a quarterback? Maybe he will grow a couple inches after age 30.
so because he has never been “the guy” he doesn’t know how to play the position? he just doesn’t have elite skills. it is quite the opposite of what you imply.
Kaluka Maiava, Beau Bell, Martin Rucker, Leon William, Issac Sowells, Antonio Perkin, Luke McCown, Lee Suggs, Kevin Bentley, Ben Taylor, Darnell Sanders
what do all these players have in common? they weren’t drafted by this regime. you CANNOT logically compare previous 4th round picks in browns history over 3+ different regimes. What would be more relevant is a list of 4th and 5th round picks made by Tom heckert or with his say…or picks made by Holmgren
Heckert (Quentin Demps, Max Jean-Giles, Brent Celek, Omar Gathier, Todd Herremens, Jason Avant, AJ Feeley, Trent Cole, Corell Buckhalter)
Holmgren (Alex Bannister, Floyd Womack, Rocky Bernard)
I think I would take my chances with keeping the pick. I would take quite a few over Campbell.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Did you really need to waste that much of your time replying to that crazy comment? You seriously have way, way, way too much free time.
by Buckeye Brad on May 17, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
You seriously have way, way, way too much free time.
thanks for pointing out I still haven’t found a job after a week or so of searching…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Shocking.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on May 17, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
He’d be great at data entry or working for that number you can call and ask random questions to get answers for different things.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
He’d be terrible working for Cha Cha. They actually need to give the right answer to people.
He’d be an amazing secretary though. The nam can write like 327321863 words a minute.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on May 18, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Haha. “Crazy comment.” This place is a riot sometimes. (I agree with you, by the way, that comment is an eyesore.)
by Western Reserve on May 18, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Campbell (lifetime quarterback rating 82.3)
wow, that is so much better than delhomme’s 81.
Here are the players the Browns have drafted in the 4th round since 2002:
Kaluka Maiava, Beau Bell, Martin Rucker, Leon William, Issac Sowells, Antonio Perkin, Luke McCown, Lee Suggs, Kevin Bentley, Ben Taylor, Darnell Sanders
i guess we’d better trade away all of our 4th round picks from now on. obviously an entirely new regime that had nothing to do with any of these picks, save one, will make equally bad picks. clearly the team itself cannot make 4th round picks. booooooo 4th round picks!
Why does nobody ever reference the “real” reason Kosar was let go? I can’t be the only one here to have ever heard this story. I personally got it from a pretty reliable source that after the infamous “play drawn in the dirt” game that Bernie and The Hoodie nearly went toe to toe in the locker room – in front of the entire team. Belichick was said to be screaming at Kosar as he came off the field (after the touchdown pass) so loud he could be heard in the stands. Something to the effect of “You don’t change my F’n plays” Supposedly in the locker room, standing toe to toe Bernie told Bill that “This is My team – not yours”. Bill then marched into Modells office and gave an “it’s either him or me” speech.
I know it’s a little off topic, but Bernie being released for diminishing skills and being compared to Delhomme made me want to bring it up. Maybe I’m being nostalgic, but the only “skill” of Bernies I really remember being diminished was his legs – which were never even good to begin with. His arm was about the same and his decision making was still strong. Hardly the down seasons that Delhomme has had. I could easily be proven wrong, as I’m going from memory and not looking up any stats.
What does that MEAN - TO PLAY US OUT?!!?!?
If Bernie could still throw as well as he always had then why didn’t another team give him a starting job after his release? That seems to disprove your theory right there.
by Buckeye Brad on May 18, 2010 7:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I think people are forgetting just how poorly the WR’s played at times last year. I can’t remember the game, but I think it was the first full game that DA played where he could have been 8/10 for the first quarter, but the WR’s dropped literally every pass that were thrown to them. DA and Quinn could have had some good games thrown in there if the WR’s had tape on their hands
by The Licensed Pessimist on May 17, 2010 6:07 PM EDT reply actions
Delhomme
You can’t in any form think that Jake Delhomme is the best pick up for the Browns. I am telling you this team is still in trouble. They beat 4 teams at the end of the year playing out the string. They lost to Detroit. Jake Delhomme is not a calming influence, it is a desperate move for a team that has nothing. That is my opinion. I think you will see. Someone else defending Seneca Wallace? Why when teams have had problems have they not tried to trade for such a talent. Wallace is 5’11. That wont cut it in the NFL now and you all know it.
As far as the draft picks, Heckert was not with Holgrem ever before now. He was with Miami and then the Eagles. I am comparing who the Browns have taken through the last 9 drafts in the 4th round and Jason Campbell is better than all of them. You can’t compare every other teams selection in the 4th round. He was worth a 4th round pick. He is young and tall and talented. Is he a great quarterback NO. But he is 28 and could play for the Browns for 3 or 4 years. If Colt McCoy (doubtful in my opinion) turns out to be a very good quarterback, Jason Campbell with his ability can make this team competitive and give McCoy a couple years to learn before going under center as a starter. IN MY OPINION Jake Delhomme will not be a BROWN in 2012, maybe not in 2011 either. He is not a stop gap, in MY OPINION he is a quarterback way past his prime, and is a back up at best for maybe a year or two.
This team is showing signs of improvement, but they are small steps at best. With the current quarterback situation I think we are in for more of the same, being unable to move the ball and putting unfair pressure on the defense to win games again.
I am telling you this team is still in trouble.
Well, it’s all settled then, isn’t it?
That's just noise.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on May 17, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I am telling you this team is still in trouble.
STOP THE PRESSES! WE AREN’T SUPERBOWL CONTENDERS?! NOOOOOOOOO!
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on May 17, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
subject line? check.
misspelling of Mike Holmgren’s name? check.
random capitalization? check.
angry pessimism? check.
don’t look now, but we’ve got ourselves another rambling manifesto!
You can’t in any form think that Jake Delhomme is the best pick up for the Browns.
Who is this “you” that you’re referring to? Why do you keep posting these rambling, incoherant rants about Delhomme that assumes everyone here thinks he’s going to be great? Do you actually read what people here are writing? What is the point of this?
by Buckeye Brad on May 18, 2010 8:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I get your point, you like Campbell and don’t like Delhomme. However, we all know here that Delhomme is just a gap filler until a starter can be found. We don’t expect anything great from him. Just average would be a welcome change for us. Campbell is not exactly a proven commodity yet either though. He wasn’t even available until literally during the draft either after the McNabb trade. The FO wanted Anderson/Quinn out to clear up the QB controversy once and for all and start fresh. If the FO could have seen into the future, then yes, maybe we wait for Campbell, but how was anyone to know the Redskins would take Donovan and trade off Jason?
We won’t be stellar at QB, but we will be ok. Delhomme can mentor McCoy probably much better than Campbell considering he has been to the big show and has been in the league 8yrs longer than Campbell. He has also been part of a winning team/strategy on multiple occasions.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
Just for reading purposes
Jason Cole writes and ranks every teams quartberback situation going into this year. He ranks Cleveland 31st out of 32 teams, and the Raiders 21st. Here is the analysis from Jason Cole:
31. CLEVELAND BROWNS: The Browns purged the roster of Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn early in the offseason and then got Jake Delhomme(notes) and drafted Colt McCoy(notes). In short, they got an older (albeit more accomplished) version of the wild-armed Anderson and a guy with far less physical presence than Quinn. McCoy is the future, but he’s unlikely to play this season. And if McCoy doesn’t put on at least 20 pounds, opposing defensive linemen are going to snap him like a chicken wing when he finally does play.
21. OAKLAND RADIERS: Unlike the Eagles, the Raiders actually moved up in the rankings by getting rid of their quarterback, dumping the aforementioned Russell and trading for Jason Campbell(notes). Campbell is about as different from Russell as could be. A self-starter, son of a coach who works hard, Campbell gets the big picture. Like Alex Smith, Campbell has been held back by constant change in the offense. But he also refuses to take a lot of chances, which has led to a career average of only 6.6 yards per attempt.
I just think we made the wrong choice. Delhomme is really a step in the wrong direction.
the guy is a crappy yahoo sports writer…I read some of his articles ranking positions and it is pretty much crap.
a reaction by stampede blue to lazy, crap writing
http://www.stampedeblue.com/2010/2/11/1305070/jason-cole-vomits-on-keyboard
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
That guy lost me last year with his seeming vendetta against the Browns. Damn near every football article he wrote during the season he took potshots against Mangini.
Yeah, we get it . . . you like Jason Campbell more than Jake Delhomme. You’ve repeated that many times on here already. Let’s move on.
by Buckeye Brad on May 18, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Jason Cole is awful, first of all.
Jake Delhomme is not “the answer”, he is a short-term option that made it entirely clear that Holmgren et al hit “reboot” on the QB situation. Jake Delhomme is a “reboot”. Jake Delhomme may not be an answer, but getting rid of the other two guys was probably a step in the right direction.
We have a long way to go before we are Minnesota and have to worry about our stellar supporting cast getting old/leaving unless we get a QB.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on May 18, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And if McCoy doesn’t put on at least 20 pounds, opposing defensive linemen are going to snap him like a chicken wing when he finally does play.
He weighed 216 at the combine. Drew Brees weighs 209lbs. Favre 222lbs. Why does McCoy need to add 20lbs?
by Bernie19Kosar on May 18, 2010 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s also been mostly healthy with the exception of that freak arm injury.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Ok change of Subject
I like the Offensive Line. I think if the Browns have any chance to continue the success of the last 4 games last year is to pound teams running the ball. The tight ends the Browns have are better run blockers than receivers. This could be a plus.
What are everyone’s thoughts on Jerome Harrison? Hardesty to me, reminds me of a Leroy Hoard. Thoughts?
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