How far is too far in NFL interviews?
My Mom is not a prostitute. She is a nice lady.
This question would not be asked of me in a normal interview. Too bad Dez Bryant wasn't in a normal interview.
If you don't know what I am talking about, you should really come out of your cave more often, but here is the thumbnail. During the NFL combine, the Dolphins were interviewing Dez Bryant, somehow the issue of Bryant's mother came up. Bryant says that Jeff Ireland, Dolphins GM, asked if his mother was ever a prostitute. The Dolphins claim that Bryant told them that his father was a "pimp" and his mother worked for him. Bryant denies it went this way, instead painting the picture that this was more of a straightforward question.
Anyway you slice it, Bryant was asked if his Mother was a street walker. He remained calm, answered no, and the interview continued. Afterwards, Bryant told the media of the question, and the kimchi hit the fan.
Since then, people have called for Jeff Ireland to be fired. Others claimed that Ireland was a world class A-hole. Mike Ditka said that Ireland needs to be whacked in the head.
Ireland has apologized, calling the question "poor judgement" on his part. Now, Dez Bryant's mother wants an apology as well.
Just another day in the politically correct country we all live in.
Here is the thing, Ireland didn't do a damn thing wrong.
This is Jeff Ireland's job.
In todays NFL, your rap sheet is just as important as your stat sheet. Blame Roger Goodell if you want. Players are being suspended without even being arrested. You can no longer draft a guy with off the field baggage without a second thought.
Call me crazy, but a players immediate family having multiple run-ins with the law is a problem. This isn't just me, studies show that children that have been around crime their entire life, are more apt to committing crimes later on. My father has smoked cigarettes since I was born. I know the dangers of smoking. Yet, it doesn't bother me when people light up around me. Why should it? I have seen it my entire life.
Dez Bryant's mother is no saint. Since '08 she has been arrested twice for lying to police and another time for possessing and selling crack. Does this sound like a role model for someone that you would be willing to hand over a ten million dollar signing bonus? It's not like Ireland had no grounds for the question. If Dez Bryant has been around this kind of environment his entire life, the thinking is that it all becomes white noise to him.
Put yourself in the shoes of a GM. Don't you owe it to yourself and your employer to find out every single thing about a NFL prospect before you throw millions of dollars at a player? Does the player still smoke weed? Does he hang out with childhood friends that are on the wrong side of the law?
This is the NFL. Teams go from worst to first every season. The turnover in this league is crazy. GM's can't miss with picks. Who cares if a guy is incredibly talented, if he is arrested and in the state pen, you will be fired. Man who drafted Mike Vick? Fired. Man who drafted PacMan Jones? Fired. General Managers jobs are on the line every draft.
Do you think the Falcons wished they had asked Mike Vick if he hung out with his old crew that just so happened to be involved in dog fighting? I doubt Mike Vick would have said yes, but maybe the Falcons don't like how he answers the question. So they stay at pick 5 and draft LT and then take Drew Brees in the second round. Vick goes on to be a Charger and lead his life of crime. The Falcons have one of the most dangerous backfield combos and never have to rebuild their franchise.
See why asking really hard questions could matter?
Who cares if Dez Bryant gets pissed? Tell me where else on earth someone can be kicked out of college and then still walk into a job on the first day and cash a check that is eight numbers long? If Dez Bryant doesn't like the question than he can take a walk. Go work at a car wash where the manager there doesn't care about your background.
Please spare me the "Dez Bryant has done nothing wrong" crap. At first I was on his side. Now looking at the facts, maybe the NCAA was onto something. Anyone else notice what apparel company Dez Bryant signed with? Under Armour. What company does Deion Sanders endorse? Under Armour. Whaaaaaa?! It gets better. Deion Sanders agent is Eugene Parker. What agent did Dez Bryant sign with? Eugene Parker. Anyone want to bet me what agent signs Deion Sanders protoge, Noel Devine next season? I haven't even touched on the fact that Bryant was reported to always be late to practice and games. Sounds like a real worker. I bet he is never late again. Oops.
Let me put it this way. If two years from now, Joe Haden is suspended for 4 games for weed and TJ Ward is out of the league for multiple arrests, a lot of people are going to ask Tom Heckert why didn't he do his job? Those people would be right, because sometimes people need to be asked tough questions.
339 comments
|
2 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Why does his relationship with Deion Sanders matter? I can see how his family life being screwed up can have a big influence on him, but other than being an egotistical jerk what has Deion done wrong? It doesn’t matter at all that Dez got the same agent and signed with Under Armor.
by Legoman0721 on May 6, 2010 4:14 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
It is the reason why he was suspended from OkSU.
He claims that it was blown out of proportion, but his actions afterwards seem to show something different.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 6, 2010 4:19 AM EDT up reply actions
It matters if there was something shady going on while Dez was still an NCAA athlete that was against NCAA rules. I also don’t want a player that shows up in the NFL to collect that first huge contract, all the endorsement deals in the world before playing a down, and then never works his way into being a legit NFL player.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I can’t blame Bryant for signing a huge endorsement deal at all. It’s the Nfl. Your not guaranteed the next day. Make the money while you can. If you were drafted and got approached by someone wanting to give you millions of dollars to wear their crap, would you say, “nah I’m ok.”.
by The naome40 on May 6, 2010 5:42 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
thats not the problem though, the problem was that something with endorsements was going on while he was still in college, which is very much against NCAA rules.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on May 6, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
We all know it doesn’t matter to Jerry Jones, so why should we care? If you could score huge figures would you take it? It is the owners fault for putting so much faith if these rookies. and when they raise prices for tickets, it is the owners problem when no one shows up.
I don’t care about what potentially bad moves the Cowboys make. In fact, if the Cowboys are terrible, we probably stand to benefit a little bit (obviously, Philly, NYG, and Washington benefit more than we would).
By “it matters” I meant it would be relevant to the scouting process and to how teams (including us) view him as a pro prospect. Also that it would matter to the NCAA if it happened while he was playing in their league.
I would love to have LeBron James on any team I was a part of. I’ve heard he has a small amount of endorsement deals, but his #1 goal is to win basketball games and championships. There is a difference between him and guys who hit the NBA or NFL and have all the talent in the world but never work themselves into being the best they can be.
You absolutely take the money as an athlete, but you should care about the game first and foremost.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Does the player still smoke weed? Does he hang out with childhood friends that are on the wrong side of the law?
these are quite appropriate to me
However, what was asked of Bryant is extremely inappropriate. If he wants to ask questions about Dez’s mother he could have done it in a much better way without asking if she was a prostitute. He could of asked about Dez’s family past in a trillion different ways. However, seems he wanted to be blunt about it and just ask the one he thought would get a reaction from Bryant.
I understand your investing millions of dollars and need your homework done on a certain guy, however I also feel you can do this without asking basically if your mother is a whore. There are more eloquent ways of asking about someones past. Just my opinion anyways.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
by Kimble_79 on May 6, 2010 8:18 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I’m kinda of this opinion too. Maybe the wording was inappropriate. Maybe because it was in public.
I’d much rather Ireland sit him down privately and say “we’ve heard you’ve had a rough childhood. What was your upbringing like?” kinda way.
But wasn’t in done in private, or as private as a NFL interview can be?
I believe, and correct me if I am wrong, that this was leaked by Bryant, not the Dolphins. Bryant made this situation public, not the Dolphins.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 6, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I would let the media know what kind of questions Ireland was asking me if they were ones like that.
Look, my point is…he could have asked this in a much less controversial way and this would have never been an issue. It was the delivery of the question that gets people going. I noticed below a better example…“I see your father was a pimp, and your mother was arrested on multiple occasions for different reasons. Is there any other criminal behavior we need to be aware of?” Then, if you still need to gauge the kids reaction to things, send him to a psychologist to run a few tests on him.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
But who’s to say that the question was in fact two fold???
As in that they are trying to figure out the kid’s upbringing AND how he responds or handles situations.
Granted there is a certain tact and professionalism that is held by both parties in an interview, but an interview is what it is… Questioning to figure out answers that you want to know. They ask you 30 questions about prior girlfirends and your social life to lead them to the conclusion that you are the next Ben Rothlisberger or what not…
Ask him an antagonistic question about something else. Ask this question appropriately. Or put it in someone else’s mouth: “what do you do when the opposing team asks you if your mother was a prostitute?”
There were better ways to ask this, but the info-gathering itself is a part of the scouts/GM/decision-maker’s job.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
All kinds of wow.
So now it’s just sit there and take it time?
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
No. But if we are discussing privacy, and that is how I took skipkirk’s comment, then it is on Bryant.
Bryant told the media about the question, not the Dolphins.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 6, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
it isn’t necessarily WHAT was asked, it is how it may have been asked, there are ways of keeping a respectful interview yet also get the information you want.
that said, I don’t know how it was asked or who to believe, so I take no side here, I wasn’t there.
Every day may not be good, but there's something good in every day.
However, what was asked of Bryant is extremely inappropriate.
Let’s see… We already know that she has a record. We already know that she was in possession of crack cocaine. Bryant then tells me his father was a pimp, and that his mother worked for his father. Now, not being a pimp myself, I have no idea how many different types of job positions are available to you if you are employed by a pimp. If I had to venture a wild guess, I would say prostitute or prostitute. Seriously, what other job postion is available. Did she do his taxes for him? Did she manage his investments? Has Bryant ever said what “job” his mother did for his father. Asking if she was a prostitute seems like the obvious question when presented with the set of facts that Ireland had in front of him. This has been way overblown. If I was Ireland, I’d be much more concerned that his father and mother are both criminals. These types of issues are why so many teams passed on him.
J.Ireland could have followed all the other teams and passed on him, without asking that question after all they didn’t draft him any way.
Go Browns 09!!!
but at the time he couldn’t know they were going to pass on him, so he’s got to ask it if he feels it’s necessary.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on May 6, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
No one is going to remember this after the first Brandon Marshall TD.
Does anyone remember, other than my OCD self, that Darren McFadden had to answer some tough questions himself before his draft?
If you remember, McFadden had 4 kids from 4 different women. Everyone got pissy about why does that matter. Then Travis Henry showed everyone why it matters.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 6, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
What did Travis Henry do again?
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on May 6, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Every willing woman he came across.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 6, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Rec for making me spit out the water I was trying to drink and then going into a laughing/coughing fit combination
by Nuclear Power on May 7, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes. if he did claim his father was a pimp and that his mother worked for him, asking that question is a completely appropriate line of questioning. It is not trying to defame his mother but from the previous line of questioning, is merely a probative question into his home life and careers of his parents.
Now, if bryant never said that his father was a pimp, the question becomes much more prejudicial and less appropriate…however, I still wouldn’t object to the question being asked…
Bryant claims he never said this, but if he did. he has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to complain about.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
then if he had all those facts, why is it even necessary to embarrass the guy by asking it? I would put my foot up anyone’s ass that asked me that. Regardless of what she has done, criminally or immorally, she still the guy’s mom man. It doesn’t matter what she has done, nobody would want to be asked that.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
Aahh don’t say that, that just proves their (not their as in people on this board) point in asking you the question.
You have to use nonviolence to prove you’re not an animal. You have to leave your internment camp and join the war effort to prove you’re an american. Your actions or nonactions will always be used against you, unless you toe the company line and fit the profile.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
You have to leave your internment camp and join the war effort to prove you’re an american.
to some, even on this site, this could be more offensive than the jeff ireland question.
then if he had all those facts, why is it even necessary to embarrass the guy by asking it?
Also i agree with this part and this has been my point up and down the thread.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
Seems like there was sufficient evidence of her bad character without insulting Bryant. Now if he asked is your Mom a Ho? – would that have made the incident bigger or smaller?
by realmccoy on May 6, 2010 9:18 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Witten?
Now that Witten and Bryant are teammates they can form a support group. Witten’s mom is a disaster and it hasn’t gotten in the way of his career. Wonder why you didn’t bring up that player in your discussion…
nobody said this would ruin Dez Bryant’s career. I’m sure we all hope he’s able to overcome his rough upbringing. All that was said is that he is statistically more likely than other players to have problems.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on May 6, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Just because you ask tough questions doesn’t mean the guy won’t be a good player.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 6, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
What would Bryant’s mother being a whore have to do with his background personally anyway?
by The Licensed Pessimist on May 6, 2010 9:47 AM EDT reply actions
possibly your dad…
but at the same time, in the nature vs. nurture argument, the one nurturing you is most often your mother…so yeah, the mother definitely has a large impact on you, your perception on life, your morals, etc…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
There are plenty of people that have had terrible parents but still ended up as great people.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on May 6, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course there are, but the odds are slim.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 6, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
That is a stereotypical thing to say.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on May 7, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s also a question that tests how the player reacts to an adverse environment.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on May 6, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean if that was the case is it appropriate for interviewers to ask normal applicants those kind of questions for high paying jobs?
by The Licensed Pessimist on May 6, 2010 9:48 AM EDT reply actions
Define high-paying. How many other careers are there where you can go from a blank resume to eight figures?
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
How many other careers are there where you can go from a blank resume to eight figures?
That’s irrelevant. What is any other instance where asking this question would be justified?
by The Licensed Pessimist on May 6, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d argue that if I was hiring a night manager a McDonald’s and knew both parents ahd criminal records. The applicant then tells me his dad’s a pimp and his mom (who has been arrested for crack possesion) works for him, I’d ask if she was a prostitute. Will this kid show up to work, be on time, steal from me? This would be what I’d ask for a $9.00 an hour job, let alone a $3,000,000 a year job. As I stated upthread, how many different employment postions are available if you work for a pimp? If your mom’s a prostitute and your father is a pimp, chances are you are lacking in discipline, hard-work, judgement, etc. Not impossible, but improbable.
I can understand that, and in a sense it makes sense. But if that’s the truth, and in turn acceptable; It’s essentially institutionalize racism and social stratification. You have an unconventional upbringing, I question your character as a human.
by The Licensed Pessimist on May 6, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s essentially institutionalize racism and social stratification.
No and no. At no point was race mentioned. At no point was social class brought up. It’s the criminal elements, and the exposure to those elements, that justifies those questions.
You have an unconventional upbringing, I question your character as a human.
Whoa. That’s quite a leap. To categorize “my father is a pimp and my mother (who has been arrested for selling crack, recently) worked for him” as “unconventional” is extremely misleading. My dad was a stay at home dad for most of my childhood – that’s somewhat “unconventional”. That is in no way similar to Dez’s upbringing. To allow for and even imply the suggestion of similarity there is bordering on deceitful.
Think about this: how many first round picks were raised in poverty? Probably a few. How many were black? Quite a few. Yet, only one was asked this question. Why? Because only his specific circumstances made it relevant.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
agreed. this isn’t about race but social class. social class is one of the factors that best predicts future behavior.
along with social class, some other factors are:
exposure to drugs/drug abuse in the home
income level in the home (partially falls under social class)
parents with low education levels.
Also…just about all of these other factors can be applied to Dez Bryant’s situation too. not everyone is the same but conventional wisdom and statistics show that Bryant would be more likely than others to get in trouble…
I wonder how many questions Michael Oher was asked about his childhood?? Probably something.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I specifically said “At no point was social class brought up.” I don’t disagree with what you state here, but I don’t think it’s necessary to get into that. This question is justifiable based solely on the evidence presented to Jeff Ireland, if you believe his account.
Of course, Ireland could be lying, which would make this a bit more awkward.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
Social class was brought up when the question was asked. Ireland never would have had the balls to ask this question to every player. Because of Bryant’s upbringing, Ireland had an obvious feeling of superiority and felt he could get away with asking this disrespectful and unnecessary question.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
That’s some wild leaping. How long have you known Jeff Ireland and his mindset?
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
His mindset is evidenced by his asking the question. There was no need to ask the question, no one else asked the question.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
The conclusion that you’re jumping to is strange. If Ireland felt so strongly that Bryant was some lowlife he could torture, why would he waste his time with this lengthy scouting and interviewing process? Or are you suggesting that Ireland looks down on all people like Bryant? Is he a racist? An elitist? Both?
Please, tell me.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
I didn’t use the word torture nor lowlife. Nor did I call him a racist or an elitist.
I said he was sitting across from someone whose background he knew and felt it was ok for him to ask whether or not his mom was a prostitute and not consider that would be a disrespectful thing to ask.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
but you implied it had something to do with bryants background, and if ireland is making judgements based on bryant’s background as you claim, he’s either elitist or racist.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
Well i try not to throw around such extreme words, because in most cases they are just hyperbole. As i didn’t say those words i don’t appreciate it being assumed that those words describe what i meant.
I said he had a feeling of superiority. Maybe i’m making too big of a distinction between elitist and superiority. But in my mind if i felt Ireland was an elitist he wouldn’t even bother to interview let alone draft Bryant.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
a feeling of superiority because he doesn’t want to casually throw millions of dollars at a guy without knowing if its a good investment. whether or not the kid flakes out due to a troubled upbringing would certainly have an impact on whether or not its a good investment. mom possibly being a prostitute certainly impacts the odds that he flakes out.
I’m sure he knew it was disrespectful, but that’s too bad. If Bryant gets offended, so what? This isn’t a tea party. The man is trying to ensure tens of millions of dollars aren’t wasted.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
That’s a hell of an assumption to which you have no proof. Think of this in financial terms (even as much maligned as the industry is today); a metaphor of sorts. Ireland is an underwriter doing due diligence as to where to invest millions of dollars, in this case into a player. Now, should he ask a question that in this unique instance, unfortunately may be relevant? Or should he avoid the issue altogether because someone might make accusations against him that he’s bigoted? If he’s doing his job, if he’s being thorough, perhaps he should ask the question even if some people will malign and make unwarranted assumptions about his character because of it.
by Western Reserve on May 6, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
and this is the problem. sometimes people are willing to skate over relevant facts about an ‘investment’ because they don’t want to seem bigoted.
In a way, being a GM in the first round is an exercise in risk analysis (almost like being an actuary of human investments). to analyze risk, you must collect ALL relevant data to make an accurate conclusion and prediction.
Just as credit score and income levels are relevant info when underwriting a loan for someone, so are parents possible criminal activities and family upbringing relevant to behavioral analysis.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Many words to make an analogy that doesn’t fit. The point isn’t what people would think of his question, it’s whether the question was necessary. If like he claims, Dez told him his father was a pimp, does he need to know his mother was a prostitute? If Dez didn’t tell him this would he need to ask him if his mom was a prostitute?
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
For reputational reasons, yes, the question has potential relevance. Was it absolutely necessary? Who knows? You are the one throwing around completely unfounded assumptions about people’s character because you didn’t like the question, so I think your point is a bit deeper than the completely esoteric and largely irrelevant debate about whether the question was “necessary.”
by Western Reserve on May 6, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Well if I shouldn’t assume neither should you.
The whole point, which is not largely irrelevant, is whether or not Ireland was justified in asking the question. Which a large part of determining that would be whether or not the question was necessary or relevant.
I’m not asking Ireland to ask himself what would jesus do before he interviews a player, but I am asking him to ask himself if the question he is about to ask is relevant to the interview and the interview’s purpose and whether or not it is necessary, i.e. could he learn the same information by asking more respectful questions.
In my opinion he could have learned the same information about Bryant by asking other questions and no, if as he says Bryant told him his father was a pimp, it was not relevant because Ireland now knows that that Bryant was exposed to the selling of sex and the degradation of women.
A respectful follow up question could possibly be, how do you feel seeing such treatment of women has affected you as a man. What are your feelings on that?
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I don’t think I did make any assumptions about Ireland or his personal beliefs.
Perhaps I’m being too literal here, but I would concede the question isn’t necessarily “necessary.” In other words, this point of yours is fair:
could he learn the same information by asking more respectful questions.
Though, I would still say the question has relevance and is justifiable because of potential reputational issues.
by Western Reserve on May 6, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
If like he claims, Dez told him his father was a pimp, does he need to know his mother was a prostitute?
Damn skippy he does.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 6, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
If dez didn’t tell him, yes the question was not necessary. however, it is unclear who is right or wrong in the situation.
I personally am siding a little with ireland…not that i believe he is right, but because the media backlash has been unwarranted and uncalled for, in my opinion.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I don’t know about having the balls, but Ireland didn’t have the justification to ask any other player.
As far as we know, he didn’t.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 6, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
So because he didn’t ask other players that’s his justification for asking Bryant?
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
Ireland didn’t have the justification to ask other players.
He had to ask Bryant.
We can debate whether or not the wording of the question was appropriate or not, but the question had to be asked.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 6, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
oh…didn’t catch that.
however, because of the proliferation of stories throughout the draft process, the fact that bryant was empoverished as a child almost became common knowledge.
the question now remains who is lying…bryant or Ireland?
I don’t completely condone what ireland said, especially if he is now lying, but the flack he is getting, some calling him to be charged with a felony (???), is disproportionate to his actions.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
So we should ask all the rich players how often daddy has bailed them out of trouble and for what trouble specifically? Or is it just ok to ask poor kids about their social upbringing? Maybe we just focus on the parts of society we aren’t familiar with and therefore feel threatened by.
Andy Reid’s kids aren’t exactly pillar’s of the community and yeah they are a specific case just as Dez Bryant being interviewed is a specific case.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
First, I would hope any future employer of Andy Reid’s kids do their homework and understand their criminal past.
That said, I think that’s a bad example for your case. This is not regarding Dez’s criminal history (or lack thereof).
And yes, I would expect every NFL player, whether poor, rich, Asian, whatever, to be asked any and every question pertinent to their respective histories and the problems any such history might manifest.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
The point is any future employer wouldn’t have done that part of the homework because they Andy Ried’s kids.
That was the whole point about particular parts of society. Kids from certain parts of society will get away with avoiding these types of questions, until they get caught doing something. While Dez Bryant gets asked if his mom is a prostitute.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I’d love to know how many privileged kids stated their mother was an employee of their father, whom was a pimp. You have any numbers on that?
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
Well we know which kid would be believed if they deny making that statement.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
please…if a privileged kid said the things that bryant to ireland (all of this supposition though), I would be backing the GM just as much and would have as much faith in the kid’s story.
personally, I do not think there is definitive proof either way that either bryant or ireland are telling the truth.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Again, if you know his dad is a pimp do you really need to know his mom is a prostitute, especially when you know she has been arrested for drugs? What more do you plan to find out about Bryant from learning whether or not his mom is a prostitute?
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
Look, all I can say is that of all those three things (Dad is a pimp, mom on drugs, and mom is a prostitute), the prostitute one would have the biggest impact on my psyche. BY FAR. On a scale of 1-10, those would be scored 6, 5, 450. I could easily see someone coping with the first two but not the last.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
Andy Reid’s kids were 12 & 13 at the time he was hired by the Eagles.
How much homework were they supposed to do? They did not have a history of breaking the law like Ms. Bryant.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 6, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
thats not irrelevant. in any other instance if you are getting hired for a high paying job, you have an extensive resume already. In low paying jobs, it doesn’t matter, because there’s little to no risk involved. Jeff Ireland is putting his job on the line by promising millions of dollars to people that haven’t proved anything
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on May 6, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Resume?
How much is on your resume about your family?
My resume is filled with details about jobs that are similar to the one I’m applying for. Bryant’s resume has his college and high school football information on it.
There are many aspects of a person’s history that could be relevant to how they do a job. Not all of those are legal to ask, and many more are simply unacceptably rude to ask. Since the employers’ right to know is, as we all know, not unabridged, you might want to ask yourself why. As an earlier poster points out, it’s important to give employees the chance to rise above circumstances and statistics.
Exactly. I’m sure Raplistburgher grew up in a traditional household but yet that didn’t prevent him from getting into trouble. You pick up on a person’s character by getting to know THAT PERSON, and if not, asking professional questions in non-offensice ways. You don’t go about it the way Ireland did and anyone who believe his behavior is justified is pathetic.
by The Licensed Pessimist on May 6, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
you are taking this too far. of course people from a normal family background still get in trouble. of course people from a bad background live perfectly good lives. But the fact is they are more likely to get in trouble. I am not even saying they are likely to get in trouble, I am saying they are more likely than others.
also, you say you need to get to know THAT PERSON, not his family? did your family not have any bearing whatsoever on who you are as a person?
lastly, we frown upon calling other posters pathetic.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on May 6, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
lastly, we frown upon calling other posters pathetic.
Well, unless they’re Steelers or Ravens fans who have earned the privilege, anyway.
That's just noise.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on May 6, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Notthatnoise:
He frowns upon calling other posters pathetic, when they’re being pathetic…
But asking if your momma was a whore is fair game
by The Licensed Pessimist on May 6, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
the point is that you won’t win many friends around here by telling people they’re pathetic just because they disagree with your opinion. i happen to think the question from jeff ireland was okay. do you want to call me pathetic directly?
C’mon dude, he’s pessimistic. He’s the one who’s pathetic.
The Maniac’s here.
by Brownie's Year on May 7, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
wow…
yes, people from traditional households get in trouble. people from troubled households stay out of trouble. you hear about it all the time in football and basketball…guys who were able to stay out of trouble even though family life was bad.
HOWEVER, that does not make it irrelevant to question. we are not talking case by case, but what generally happens and general statistics. in statistics there are always outliers so going by individual cases is completely irrelevant. the statistics show that someone in Dez Bryant’s situation would be more prone and more likely to get in trouble with the law at some point in his life.
and if bryant actually did mention his dad being a pimp, even if he was jesting in any sort of way, this followup question is not only relevant, and appropriate, but almost necessary.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
you know you have to answer if you have ever been convicted of a felony…that is perfectly legal. the question rarely comes up in job interviews (but from my research I believe its legal), but they may ask if your parents were ever convicted of a felony.
felonies are relevant information when applying for a job…why are the felonies of someone you spent your life with irrelevant and illegal when you are applying to a million dollar job?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
why are the felonies of someone you spent your life with irrelevant and illegal when you are applying to a million dollar job?
let’s see…could it be because they are not you, and they are not applying for the job?
its about behavioral analysis. much more than in other jobs, public image and behavior is key in sports. these “men” (I use the term loosely) are getting millions of dollars a year and are told to also behave. you don’t want to give a guy millions of dollars just so he can get caught doing drugs or meeting the wrong people in a nightclub.
being exposed to criminal activity at a young age, especially through the parents, is one of the main factors in determining criminal/antisocial behavior.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
For the record i’m not arguing against being exposed to criminal activity having an effect on a child.
I don’t feel that the particular question was necessary to gain any added insight to Bryant’s character.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
if, as ireland said, bryant claimed his dad to be a pimp, I think it would be perfectly necessary. I don’t believe it at all necessary to ask out of the blue, but if this supposed followup question existed, then not only is it logical, but you would almost be a fool not to. family background, exposure to violence and criminal behavior, are both large factors in determining future criminal behavior.
honestly, if a boy was exposed to prostitution at a young age, especially through his family, it quite possibly could change his outlook on the female race as a whole. it could make him look down on them, and in turn look down on his mother. this could cause some of the same types of problems that Big Ben is facing now.
whether or not your mom is a prostitute is very necessary (if the previous questions made it relevant) to find out how this person may interact with the female sex.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
whether or not your mom is a prostitute is very necessary (if the previous questions made it relevant) to find out how this person may interact with the female sex.
Like i said below, i’m not a psychologist, but i would imagine being exposed to the abuse and disrespect of women through having a father as a pimp, would give adequate insight to those interactions without specifically asking if his mom was a prostitute.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
there is also the male perception of both the pimp and the whore professions. in general, pimp is perceived as better and I believe whore would leave more emotional scarring.
and its not like pimp would help him…both would probably make him more prone to doing things that aren’t legal or ethically right…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Regardless of what is perceived as better (?) i thought your point was how his background would affect his interaction with women. If he’s been exposed to poor treatment of women you can look at his actions throughout his life to see how he has handled certain situations without asking if his mom was a prostitute.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
but do you only want to get half of the story of how he has been exposed to poor treatment or do you want to get the whole story. yes, the pimp thing would be enough to get basic information on how he might interact with women, but do you want to get just basic information? I know that when a bank gives out a loan, they only try to get basic information too…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I can understand that point.
I think we can all agree that going into that situation we would assume that Bryant would say, “No, my Mother is not a prostitute”.
But what if he would have said yes? As the interviewer, if you have probable cause to ask a question, you need to get the answer.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 6, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I think when I worked at a bank i had to answer questions about if anyone in my household had been convicted of money crimes. I think not positive though.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
that would be the correct way to ask. then follow up with can you explain this to me. Not to ask somebody if their mom is a whore.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
the problem you aren’t getting is, if ireland’s story is true, than it would be like asking if your father was in jail for embezzlement…or something like that…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
the problem you aren’t getting is that society has lines drawn on what is appropriate and not appropriate to say to another person. This crossed that line, regardless.
1) Ireland is a man in power
2) Ireland is a possible future employer
3) Ireland had his parents rap sheet in front of him
4) Bryant is a kid coming out of college
5) Bryant is a kid looking for a job in the NFL
6) Bryant has come up from a hard childhood
These alone give all the power in the world to Ireland in this particular conversation. For him to think that this was a legit question to be asking a person, to me anyways, shows that he has no respect for Bryant.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
Exactly. But apparently the fact that Bryant is going to the NFL throws all that out the windwo.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
ireland does not have all the power. pissing off one team would not have stopped dez bryant from getting into the nfl.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
Get real. So teams don’t follow mostly the same information? Obviously it wouldn’t preclude him from getting into the NFL. But as everyone on this site knows, if you make a bad impression on one team, that news gets around and will have an effect on your career.
Ireland had the power. Bryant was already in a bad situation and needed to prove that he could play by the rules. He went into every interview knowing that he was interviewing before the entire league even if they weren’t all present in the room.
I’m not stating nor implying that Ireland was manipulating the situation on that so please no responses to that effect.
I’m stating that irregardless of Bryant’s mindset, Ireland showed a lack of respect by asking the question.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
the problem you aren’t getting is that society has lines drawn on what is appropriate and not appropriate to say to another person
“society’s” lines of what you can and can’t say are ambiguous at best…especially in this situation.
This crossed that line, regardless.
this may have crossed your line, but you are not all of society. some may perceive it as crossing the line but some may not. taking a hard stance on something being on a certain side of an ambiguous line is risky at best.
. For him to think that this was a legit question to be asking a person, to me anyways, shows that he has no respect for Bryant.
If you haven’t noticed, I only think it would be a legit question if the supposed previous followup question was asked.
If bryant said “my dad is a pimp and my mom works for him” that not only makes it a legit question, but gives ireland the latitude for which the question is perfectly okay. maybe you don’t like the question, but if Bryant did admit this, he set himself up for that sort of line of questioning.
I don’t see how this shows he has no respect at all for bryant…or that he never had respect for him. maybe he had respect but then lost some when bryant claimed his dad was a pimp and his mom worked for him. if you do say that, its your own fault if someone loses respect for you.
at the same time, I don’t see how asking the question is an issue of respect. even if you have respect for someone, if you are going to pay them that kind of money AND they say what bryant supposedly said, you should ask the followup question. even if I had respect for someone, doing my job is more important that that.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
this may have crossed your line, but you are not all of society
No I’m not, but you better bet your a$$ that I was raised to show a little more respect to others than that.
If bryant said "my dad is a pimp and my mom works for him" that not only makes it a legit question, but gives ireland the latitude for which the question is perfectly okay.
If you see what that points out and I see what that points out. Does an NFL GM, who should have a college background as well, need to ask this obvious question.
if you do say that, its your own fault if someone loses respect for you.
Seriously?? If my parents got in trouble I should be disrespected then?
doing my job is more important that that.
Then you have no morals my man. None.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
No I’m not, but you better bet your a$$ that I was raised to show a little more respect to others than that.
so you are saying: if you are on the verge of investing the future of your company and your job on a person,and another 50 million dollars or so, and someone states that his mom works for his pimp dad, would you ask if she was a prostitute? it is easy to say you wouldn’t when you aren’t faced with the question or situation. I know I would like to say that I wouldn’t ask it but I understand the situation and myself and I know that I would quite possibly try to ask the same question. like B19K said in the article, the off the field success of a star player affects the job security of the GM who drafted them.
Does an NFL GM, who should have a college background as well, need to ask this obvious question.
like someone said, this does not say directly that his mom worked as a prostitute for his dad, but implies it. ireland wouldn’t be doing his job if he just went on what phrases imply instead of what they mean.
Then you have no morals my man. None.
please don’t start putting labels on people and say they have no morals. i have morals, but i also look at every situation objetively and weigh the pros and cons. to me, you can regain respect…you can easily regain the respect you lost from that question. what is not as easy to regain is the great job you have and the perception of your evaluation if you screw up and miss on a bad character guy.
as an example: Floyd Reese, who drafted pacman jones, spent over 3 years without a job. The guy who drafted Vick? Harold RIchardson. He has been out of the NFL now for about 7 years.
Maybe you don’t care about employment, but would you keep your job at the risk of possibly offending one person, who you could later fix the relationship with? I know I would. In a risk/reward scenario, you ask the question 100 times out of 100. and being a GM is in a way, managing and analyzing risk.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
this is a personal thing, but yes, my ethics come before any job. And yes, I would have asked about his family past, but not in the direct way he did. Again, if you know his mom has been arrested, he says his father is a pimp, are you going to gain insight by asking if his mom was a prostitute? No I don’t believe so. His parents aren’t exactly model citizens, why dig even deeper.
Just an FYI to your employment comment, but I worked 40hrs a week on midnights to pay my own way thru college. How bout you? So don’t give me the “I may not care about employment” statements. You try working until 7am, then being in class at 9am for a couple years.
I may have taken the latter personal when you didn’t mean it to be, but that is a button of mine that I don’t like getting pushed. Sorry if you didn’t mean it that way.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
are you going to gain insight by asking if his mom was a prostitute? No I don’t believe so. His parents aren’t exactly model citizens, why dig even deeper.
I believe you could quite possibly get information out of that that you couldn’t get from the pimp statement. I guess we just can agree to disagree there.
Yes, they weren’t model citizens, so lets not find out anything else but the very basics. its not like we are guaranteeing this guy millions for the next several years and its not like our jobs depend on his off the field issues. I do not say that every GM should dig deeper, but i would not fault one for personally doing it.
and to your employment comment. I think you just took it personal, which is completely fine…with enough debate it happens to the best of us.
Senior year of high school I worked about 30 hours. working a shift before school, then one after school each day (the shift before shool was only a couple hours). I was not trying t say anything negative about you and employment. I am paying my way through college currently. I have worked 40 hours in a week before. I do understand partially where you are coming from.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Okay, so you think it is a relevant question, but you wouldn’t have been as blunt. It sounds like that’s all it comes down to. I’d just add that the bluntness is merely the recollection we are receiving from the media, whether it is accurate or not.
by Western Reserve on May 6, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Not all of those are legal to ask, and many more are simply unacceptably rude to ask.
I don’t give a crap if the question is rude. Sometimes tough questions need to be asked.
As an earlier poster points out, it’s important to give employees the chance to rise above circumstances and statistics.
Look at the article I put in the story. Yes, some people are able to rise above a circumstances and statistics, but the majority don’t. You willing to risk millions of dollars, and in all probability YOUR job, on Dez Bryant being one of the slim few that do?
I sure as hell wouldn’t. Third rounder? Sure. Not a first round pick. That is why you have to ask these questions.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 6, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
My thought is that if your that worried about a player to ask if his mother is a prostitute to gauge a reaction from him….why in the hell are you even interviewing him?
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
Call it the Randy Moss Rule.
No matter how bad character wise a player looks, you still need to do your homework.
I guarantee you that teams didn’t have Micheal Oher on their draft board. If Oher stays straight and goes to the HOF, then the Ravens did a better job scouting than everyone else.
Even if you think a player isn’t worth the headache, you still bring him in for multiple reasons. Maybe the player blows you away in the interview and you keep up the facade to the rest of the NFL that you still want to draft this player.
You don’t just turn up your nose at a player.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 6, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I just joined the Army, they ask about family criminal history.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
Where you will be asked to hold weapons, not catch footballs.
The Dolphins could have easily have found this information out without creating that type of situation in the interview room.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
He asked for an example, I just gave him one.
Also, how would they be able to find this information out? By hiring a PI? If there’s no arrest record, and they knew there wasn’t, then no they couldn’t easily find this info. Additionally, it wasn’t really about knowing his mother’s history. It’s about knowing how that’s affected Bryant and whether it’s likely to become a problem. Without hearing directly from Bryant, how could you know that?
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
Without hearing directly from Bryant, how could you know that?
What exactly do you plan on hearing from Bryant?
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
Emotion? Personal narrative describing how your upbringing made you a stronger person? Who knows?
The point is that whatever that answer, it could very well be highly indicative of either future outbursts or even future success.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
Personal narrative describing how your upbringing made you a stronger person?
There’s your question. There’s no need to ask if the kids mom is a prostitute.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
Hypothetical: Perhaps Bryant had no intention of bringing up such a dark and personal chapter of his life. He’s caught off guard by the question, and wants to deny it, but his emotion betrays him. He breaks down a bit, and confesses a narrative that is highly personal but also extremely demonstrative of high character. That’s the kind of character that could show that no matter what this guy will never quit, and he can never be broken. I would NEED that kind of guy on my team. I’d climb over mountains to draft him.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
Well i’ll make sure when i get married i whore my wife out in benefit of my children’s character.
You can judge someone’s character without asking if their mom is a prostitute. As evidenced by everyone in civilization doing so/
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
Where you will be asked to hold weapons
for not nearly as much money as an NFL player makes and where the guy who enlisted you won’t get fired if you turn out to be a turd.
You really don’t think applicants for high-paying jobs, with all the responsibility and with reputation at stake, are vetted in this way?
by Western Reserve on May 6, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I would like to touch on the Roger Godell suspensions. One can say that his suspensions are concerning because some players are not charged with a crime. To me, I like that style. I heard on the radio, when Ben was suspended, something that makes a lot of sense. The law is a minimum standard of living.
That being said, who lives on the line? Doesn’t one what to live above the line? What is one called that walks the line (besides Jonny Cash)? They are called, “about to be arrested at any point.” There is something in the fact that Mr Godell wants the NFL to have better standard than the minimum.
The players in the NFL are professionals. I used to think that a professional was one who got paid for thier skill. This is not the only definition. A professional is a set of qualities of one’s personal behavior in work-related situations. And in the NFL, public image is a work-related situation.
This suspention of Ben is something that made me look at how I want to live. I want to live above the minimum standard, and not give the slightest perception of breaking the law.
Good write-up. Probably too brutally honest for many people’s comfort level, but you are right on. God forbid if NFL teams do some due diligence before investing millions of dollars into a guy. The locker room, team culture and reputation counts, and teams are within their right to protect those by asking awkward but relevant questions.
by Western Reserve on May 6, 2010 10:40 AM EDT reply actions
one other small thing i’d like to point out:
If Bryant is so upset about Ireland asking this question, how is he going to handle it when corners harass him about his mom all game?
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on May 6, 2010 10:48 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
There’s a difference between being embarrassed or humiliated by your potential employer and an opposing DB. I can handle people calling me names all day but I wouldn’t expect to hear it in a job interview or during a review from my boss. Two wildly different situations.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I don’t think so.
I guarantee you he is going to hear 10x worse from DeAngelo Hall this season.
If he can’t keep his cool in an interview situation, you really expect him to keep his cool with his adrenaline pumping? I don’t.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 6, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I would definitely expect to hear 100x worse on the field, which in my view makes the interview situation worse. Expectations. On the field you expect it and you know it’s coming and you know the tactics. Many players and fans of teams cross the line on what they do and say to opposing players, however players expect that (although they might not like it) and realize that it’s a nasty party of the game. You don’t expect that kind of disrespect in a job interview.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
If I were Jeff Ireland I would want an apology from Michael Silver.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
I think Michael Sliver is one of those guys that just love the attention and look to place themselves above as many people as they can, in order to feel better about their pathetic self.
You know…. because his writing sucks.
yeah…I didn’t even know who he was at first…his writing is bad for yahoo sports…
in the article where he criticizes that question, he also criticizes the legit question for Myron Rolle of what it felt like to desert his team to go overseas.
this whole situation is seeming to bring out the sportswriting hacks…like
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/388604-after-balmy-madness-jeff-ireland-owes-apology-to-mom
this guy
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
What happened to the days when they would come by on their best behavior kissing the parents behinds? Now you have to procur rap sheets to keep the star athlete in check, or what? Someone does not have their priorities straight here.
Right. Wait…huh?
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on May 10, 2010 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean she´s not a prostitute, right? But if you were a kid and they said your Mom was a prostitute, you might want to insist that she is not, because it´s the right thing to do community wise.
by mooncamping on May 11, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Have to admit that I’m surprised at the direction of the comments here. I understand your argument that it’s crucial to have an in-depth understanding of a player’s background, given the financial risk associated with them. So, it is entirely appropriate to ask hard questions, find out about their associates, even their family, particularly if you’re convinced that any or all of them present a risk to the player. So, I’m OK with asking “has anyone in your immediate family ever been convicted of a crime?”, or even “…been arrested?”. Likewise, “Describe your family environment when you were growing up.” or “tell me who are your biggest influences.” But the “whore” question doesn’t give Ireland any useful information that couldn’t be found more easily otherwise. I’ll buy the notion that having parents who are criminals raises a serious red flag about a player’s conduct. But show me any evidence that a particular kind of crime by the parent/family member (prostitution vs. drug selling, or weapons charges, or assault, for example) has a higher correlation with later bad behavior. If there is no credible evidence that specifically being raised in the company of prostitutes is more likely to predict trouble for the player, then the question is useless, and inappropriate, IMO. It seems more likely intended to judge the player’s response to provocation than anything else. I just think Ireland was wrong.
I would one of these guys acting like this is nothing to experience something like this when they’re being interviewed.
by The Licensed Pessimist on May 6, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
my entry level job won’t be paying me $20 million dollars, and if i screw up my boss won’t get fired. you can’t compare this to just any other job interview.
and again, if someone told you their dad was a pimp and their mom worked for their dad, you would have two choices: ask if she was a prostitute, or assume she was.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on May 6, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, if I don’t like the questions I’m being answered, I have every right to walk away. I can even tell the interviewer to f*** off.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
Right, because you’re a free agent. But when a team holds a player’s draft rights, they can’t just walk away, unless they also forfeit the right to earn a living playing football. Big difference.
and you know what…I have respect for bryant just stating “NO” and being angry, but not showing it. in a way, I look at this as a positive for his character…Truly, being in control in there shows maturity.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
The troubled child show more respect than the NFL exec. Bryant never should have had to show or gain respect in that manner because the question should not have been asked.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
But show me any evidence that a particular kind of crime by the parent/family member (prostitution vs. drug selling, or weapons charges, or assault, for example) has a higher correlation with later bad behavior.
I don’t think this is about large scale social psychology. I think Jeff Ireland wanted to know if Bryant’s head was on straight. I mean, let’s be honest. It would take a lot of strength to overcome the fact that one’s mother was a prostitute. If there was a reasonable suggestion that Bryant’t mother was (and Ireland says there was), then you have to ask the question. If he says no in a calm (even if offended) tone, then so be it you did your due diligence. If he says no while lunging at your throat, then maybe he’s a bit too unstable. If he says yes, and explains how that’s affected him, and that it drives him to want to help her by succeeding or something to that effect, then maybe you trade up ten spots to get such a powerful and talented player.
It’s the reasonable suspicion that makes this a necessary, if painful, question to ask.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
I agree with this.
But at the same time, I can completely understand Dez Bryant’s reaction. Personally, I’m not at all overly sensitive and a question like that wouldn’t bother me at all. But still, I can understand it could piss off a lot of people, some to the point where they’d start swinging.
There’s another benefit to these questions I’ve heard about since the story broke. Sometimes you’ve got to ask questions to test these guys’ nerves. There are a lot of intangibles that go into being a great NFL player, and you can’t blame GMs for doing their best to try and find those things out BEFORE drafting. It is, after all, their job to do so.
There’s a difference between finding out about a person’s background and asking if their mother is a prostitute. If you have reason to suspect such you could very easily find it out through open records.
Do you ask every player if their mother is a prostitute? I doubt it. This was a BS question and this is some BS defending of it.
There was no reason to ask this question, yet it was still asked. What pertinent information can be gained by asking Bryant if his mother is/was a prostitute? Maybe that even if a f-ed up home environment he was still able to get him self to college and have a productive enough time there that he was on the verge of being a number 1 draft pick?
BS.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
If you have reason to suspect such you could very easily find it out through open records.
False. Only if she was arrested.
There was no reason to ask this question
According to Ireland, there definitely was reason to ask it.
What pertinent information can be gained by asking Bryant if his mother is/was a prostitute?
Interviewee’s mental stability, reaction to adversity, and so on
Maybe that even if a f-ed up home environment he was still able to get him self to college and have a productive enough time there that he was on the verge of being a number 1 draft pick?
Like I said above, if he managed to overcome that situation AND I was convinced he was mentally stable – I’d bump that guy up a few slots on my draft board. This wasn’t about tearing Dez Bryant down.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
False. Only if she was arrested.
A prostitute that has never been arrested?
According to Ireland, there definitely was reason to ask it.
Then how come no other exec. asked the question?
Interviewee’s mental stability, reaction to adversity, and so on
BS. There are tons of psychological tests you can do to gauge that stuff without asking someone if their mother is a prostitute.
Like I said above, if he managed to overcome that situation AND I was convinced he was mentally stable – I’d bump that guy up a few slots on my draft board. This wasn’t about tearing Dez Bryant down.
If not, you and your buddies have something to laugh about over a case of beer.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
A prostitute that has never been arrested?
I was unaware that every prostitute in America has been arrested at least once. Must make the first time that much more unpleasant.
Then how come no other exec. asked the question?
According to Ireland, he asked the question once Bryant said his father was a pimp and his mother worked for him. I assume no other exec. was told this by Bryant.
BS. There are tons of psychological tests you can do to gauge that stuff without asking someone if their mother is a prostitute.
That’s laughable. Exactly what written test would convey the mental and emotional and VISCERAL reaction one would get in a direct dialogue?
If not, you and your buddies have something to laugh about over a case of beer.
Touché?
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
Then how come no other exec. asked the question?
According to Ireland, he asked the question once Bryant said his father was a pimp and his mother worked for him. I assume no other exec. was told this by Bryant.
Then I guess it’s a case of he said he said. I would figure if you wanted to know Bryant’s reaction to his upbringing, knowing his father would be sufficient information.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
Whoever’s account is more accurate, the fact that no one else the Dolphins interviewed has come forth saying they were also asked this question shows that Ireland felt he had reason to ask Bryant specifically that question. My feeling is that it was likely a follow-up to an answer Bryant gave, but even if it was pre-meditated it was based on the suspicions Bryant’s history arose.
On his father, I would suggest that it would be far more troubling for one’s mother to be a prostitute than for one’s father to be a pimp.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
On his father, I would suggest that it would be far more troubling for one’s mother to be a prostitute than for one’s father to be a pimp.
Well i’m not a psychologist so I have no idea on that, but I don’t think Ireland is either so i don’t what particular insight he would be able to gain from the distinction.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I can give you a few reasons why a son would be more troubled or emotionally hurt by a whore mother than a pimp father.
a) boys are very protective of their mothers. to a boy/young man, the father is the man who can defend for himself.
b)Even though many boys have a better relationship and get along better with their father, there is a special connection between a boy and his mother because she was the one who gave birth to him and was always there for him.
c) its the difference between a pimp and a whore as professions. pimp can be troubling, but to a boy, pimp can almost be a positive profession. in many people’s minds, especially in lower socioeconomic circles, to be a pimp was good and a good profession. the human perception of pimp is not that of a whore. a whore is someone who sells their body for money. tell me, which would you rather have, a dad who had what some may call a “glamorous” profession, or a mom who gets violated on a nightly basis and sells her body for money.
d) Oedipus complex. While it is not a major factor in everyone, psychiatrist and psychoanalysts estimate over 2/3 of the male population have an Oedipus complex of some sort. It may not always be on the surface but is often found in the subconscious. until an oedipus complex is resolved (and most are unresolved), it can have an affect on people and is very likely to come out in this kind of scenario.
I would say that much evidence points to that fact.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Many children have little or no contact with their father so, if that’s the case, their father’s occupation and lifestyle would have very little affect on him as he is growing up. If he’s living with his mother and not his father than of course she would have a much great impact on his childhood.
Of course, if the child is living with both parents or has contact with both then I don’t think there would be much of a distinction.
That’s laughable. Exactly what written test would convey the mental and emotional and VISCERAL reaction one would get in a direct dialogue?
You could simply ask them how they feel their specific upbringing has had an impact on their life, you can ask many questions to gather an understanding of the player without asking if their mother is a prostitute.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
What if it turned out his mother was, in fact, a prostitute? Wouldn’t you assume Bryant might be either guarded and/or emotional about that? Asking him point blank, and gauging his reaction, might tell you more than any number of “questionairre”, generic questions would ever give you. To think that there was absolutely no information to be gained from asking the question is silly. I think one would have to focus on whether or not the Dolphins had a right to ask it.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
What actually would that tell you about Bryant. With a question like that, any response would be justified. You are speaking out of the side of your neck, as if you are a counselor or anthropologist. Ireland is a potential employer, and there is a level of respect and professionalism they’re supposed to hold.
So regarding how Bryant reacts to the question speaks of his character, but the fact that Ireland had the audacity to ask it in that manner doesn’t speak of his character at all? This is nonsense.
by The Licensed Pessimist on May 6, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve said it a few times: he could react with extreme anger. Of course, that would be justified. It would also mean I don’t want such an unstable person on my team.
Or maybe he reacts with a compelling narrative that speaks of his high character. Big plus.
Or maybe he looks at you in disbelief, and says, “no” emphatically. Then he explains his background a little deeper and you find any fears you have of his mental state are unfounded. Plus.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
Then he explains his background a little deeper and you find any fears you have of his mental state are unfounded. Plus.
Or maybe you just ask about his background without asking if his mom is a prostitute.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
should ireland have not asked about his mothers crack use either?
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
He and everyone else knew his mom used crack, she had been arrested for it. If you want to know what else she has done you can find that out without asking if his mom was a prostitute. Besides do you need to know every offense on her moral rapsheet to make a judgement on Bryant’s character?
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
yeah…these things statistically make people more prone to criminal activity. now, the key is how he responds to these types of questions. if he handles them in a mature way and doesn’t look at all like he was offended, those are signs that these things may be less of an issue than are perceived. if he reacts in a negative way, then these things are completely relevant to his character and maturity.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
the key is how he responds to these types of questions. if he handles them in a mature way and doesn’t look at all like he was offended, those are signs that these things may be less of an issue than are perceived. if he reacts in a negative way, then these things are completely relevant to his character and maturity.
BS, maturity has nothing to do with being offended if someone asks you if your mom is a prostitute.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
Obviously maturity doesn’t have to do with being offended…but I said
the key is how he responds to these types of questions
If he responds by yelling and screaming at the people and throwing over tables, yes some of that was maybe justified, but it also shows a very short temper, lack of self control and immaturity. If however, he responds by calmly replying, then it shows that even though he may not like the question, he will still respond in a mature way.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
that’s fine, but in your initial post you said he shouldn’t look offended
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
that’s fine, but in your initial post you said he shouldn’t look offended
I never said he shouldn’t look offended. I did say it looks bad on his maturity if he shows how offended he is. I never said what he should or shouldn’t do. i am not one to tell people how to live their lives. Instead, I was pointing out how a GM would look at different reactions.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
if he handles them in a mature way and doesn’t look at all like he was offended
I said maturity has nothing to do with being offended.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I didn’t say it did. the basic act of being emotionally and personally offended is not an issue of maturity. How you express those emotions are. THAT is the difference.
maturity has a lot to do with reactions to offensive situations. if a guy is immature, he is going to tend to react badly and if a guy is mature, he would tend to handle himself in a good, controlled manner.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
you can find out about someones mental state and personal ethics in much more productive ways.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
actually, sometimes the best ways to evaluate mental state are to ask tough, and not the most pleasant questions.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Two questions:
1) how in the world do you know that?
2) why is it that you’re in the middle of virtually every argument on this site?
2) why is it that you’re in the middle of virtually every argument on this site?
If I were hiring bross, this is a question I’d ask him.
That's just noise.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on May 6, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
1) because many do not show their true colors unless pressured. do you find out someone’s mental state by asking them how they are feeling or something more in depth like what is the root cause of all their problems. being able to be introspective and self aware can be affected by maturity…many people who aren’t as emotionally mature cannot handle tough, introspective questions about themself because they themselves have not mentally tackled those issues yet.
2) I guess i am always in the ones you notice me in. I am not always in the middle of every argument. I am not even sure if I would say I am in the middle more than most.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
1) that is what a psychologist is for
2) none of my concern
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
1)well…they do hire team psychologists and those guys I believe also do interviews. but at the same time, you always want to see how a guy carries himself when asked tough questions.
And its not like a person that understands human behavior can’t deduce some of the same basic things or character traits that a psychologist can. the psychologist can get much more, but someone with a basic knowledge of human behavior can likely grasp a lot.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
They aren’t generic questions. You can ask him:
Dez what kind of upbringing did you have?
Interesting, we see here it says your mom was arrested for drugs? The NFL has had some players that have had problems with drugs and other criminal activity. Has your mom or anyone else in your immediate family engaged in any other criminal activity that might have had an effect on you as a person?
or
Is your mom a whore?
See the difference? There’s a respectful way to do things. By choosing this particular route, Ireland chose the disrespectful way as i stated above and was told i didn’t know his mindset.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
We could debate this all day, but without knowing the exact context we’re attacking hypotheticals.
But, as I’ve said a few times now, that first set of questions wouldn’t strike the same emotional chord as the latter would. It would definitely present a possibility of providing information (verbal or non) that the other questions might not. I refuse to hear arguments that such an emotionally charged question couldn’t provide insight into one’s mental state.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
yeah, I think we could argue this back and forth all day.
I guess my overall point is that I respect others in the way I treat and speak with them, and I expect the same in return. Maybe that is just how I was raised though.
Regardless of money and judging someone’s mental state, it crossed my line of common courtesy.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
So you ask if his mom is a prostitute to get a rise out of him? I believe that is not necessary. You can dig into Bryant’s background to see if he’s been in fights before and for what reasons. You don’t need to attempt to goad him into something in the middle of an interview.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
So you ask if his mom is a prostitute to get a rise out of him?
I think this possibility is underrepresented in these comments. If the question is deliberately provocative, you have a whole different debate. Granted, this would be a pretty harsh tactic, but the stakes are high.
It’s not at all the same, but I’ve seen interviewers ask candidates if they were fired from a previous job when they already knew the answer. It’s a little provocative, but how they answer that question – cop to it or not, offer excuses or accept blame – can be very revealing. It could also piss a candidate off pretty thoroughly if it’s taken as an accusation or if it comes out that the interviewer knew the answer already…..
That's just noise.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on May 6, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Not specifically, no. If that were the case, he’d ask everyone that question.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
It would be interesting to know if Ireland tends to ask probing personal questions in general, though.
That's just noise.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on May 6, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish he would have asked Tebow just for pure comedy.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 6, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jesus’ mother was a virgin, not a prostitute.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on May 7, 2010 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions
hopefully this was some sort of joke…
I wish he would have asked Tebow
Jesus’ mother was a virgin, not a prostitute.
Man, if this ACTUALLY was true, BQ would never see the field.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
The Tebow is Jesus joke.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on May 10, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
this…
every time i want to make a point in this thread of the post (between you and villesigr) you just say what I would say.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Well then why are you bothering to respond?
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
geez…on this particular back and forth, everytime I had a response to you, danvail beat me to it…on other occasions I did have a response.
Well then why are you bothering to respond?
maybe I am missing something but to me, this feels like mean spirited and in a way, telling me to shut up.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
That’s exactly what it is. Congratulations.
by Western Reserve on May 6, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Good topic Bernie. Good discussions
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
Agreed, oh wait dammit, i just did what i told bross not to do.
I so feel like Braylon Edwards right now.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
Don’t drop your cell phone in the toilet.
That's just noise.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on May 6, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
suggestion next time…worry about yourself and not tell others what to do…especially if you are going to go do them.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I figured that we haven’t had some good football debate on the site in awhile.
You guys did not disappoint. This is why I love DBN. No matter the topic, I always hear good points on both sides of the issues.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 6, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I will say that this entire thing has been blown out of proportion. Ireland was an idiot, Bryant accepted his apology, the Dolphins didn’t draft him, end of story. It keeps getting deeper and deeper for no reason
by The Licensed Pessimist on May 6, 2010 2:25 PM EDT reply actions
Probably right. And besides, probably can’t be more offensive than this:
by Western Reserve on May 6, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a much bigger problem with this question than the Dolphins.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 6, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed. not only is it irrelevant but it is illegal for any employer to ask that.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
that its illegal to ask sexual orientation?
Sexual Orientation No Inquiry into an applicant’s sexuality (gay, bisexual, lesbian, heterosexual) is permitted.
http://www.hkwg.com/Employment-Interview-Questions.html
If you want, I can probably find several other sources.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Massachusetts anti-discrimination laws?
Okay, I’m going to take you up on that: Find several other sources.
My only point was to suggest that sexual orientation was not a protected class under Federal law. But probably also not under many or likely most state laws either, Massachusetts (thank you) excluded.
by Western Reserve on May 6, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay, I’m going to take you up on that: Find several other sources.
Wikipedia?
by Bernie19Kosar on May 6, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
< disengages safety on flamethrower >
That's just noise.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on May 6, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
sexual orientation was not a protected class under Federal law.
this is not completely true anymore.
Hate Crimes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard_Act#Passage
Job discrimination
http://www.eeoc.gov/facts/qanda.html
and 11 states have passed laws against discrimination in the workplaces against gays…however that is not a national law.
I am not sure where questions about homosexuality while being hired would fall under. I am guessing job discrimination but it could not be covered by that.
but homosexual have been steadily gaining rights through supreme court decisions…and on that subject…as a former boy scout, i think the Supreme court should overturn its decision about gays in the scouts (just a sidenote).
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I was referring strictly in the context of employment. The link you provided supports my notion.
by Western Reserve on May 6, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
There ya go. That basically jibes with my inclination:
My only point was to suggest that sexual orientation was not a protected class under Federal law. But probably also not under many or likely most state laws either
by Western Reserve on May 7, 2010 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions

Not personally against you bross, just thought this was fitting for this particular conversation.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
not that there’s anything wrong with that…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
uhhh…
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on May 7, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
what I meant to say was…
Obviously you’re not a golfer.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Yes I play golf for my high school
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on May 10, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
What number do you play? I moved around from 2-4 to crush the matchup.
The Maniac’s here.
by Brownie's Year on May 10, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah. golf is fun…but I guess that is the second pop culture reference you missed. its fine.
the first was an episode of seinfeld where someone thought the main 2 guys were gay…and they kept saying they weren’t…“not that there’s anything wrong with that”.
the second was from the big lebowski and is probably my favorite quote from the movie. a guy picks up a bowling ball in “the dude’s” apartment and he asks (in a german accent), “Waht eez zees”…and the dude responds "obviously you’re not a golfer.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
no, I should have put this disclaimer on here…
I work with people that are gay. I could care less if your gay or not. To each his/her own.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
so why is it illegal to ask if your gay, but not if your mom is a whore?
Because this is unprecedented. You won’t hear this question ever asked again no matter the circumstances in th NFL. Why, b/c it was wrong to begin with.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
Because being brought up by a pimp and a prostitute isn’t exactly the greatest environment for a kid and he may have made some bad friends/choices. What justification would one have for asking if he were gay?
One picture is worth 128K words.
maybe it would make you soft on the field, I don’t know. My point is that you won’t hear about a question like this asked again. Maybe some other form of “weird” questions, but I think Goodell will make sure this one doesn’t come around again.
And one player was asked this. Someone posted a link to that earlier in this thread. Why did they have justification to ask him?
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
maybe it would make you soft on the field, I don’t know.
Because TV tells us every gay man is an effeminate weakling, right?
The difference is that sexual orientation is on the verge, legally and perhaps more consequently culturally, of becoming a protected class, along the same lines that race, gender, disability, etc. are today. Being the son of a prostitute, however, is not. But I think you are on to something when you say Goodell may very well step in and ask these FOs to clean it up a bit, be a bit more thoughtful and save the league some embarrassment.
by Western Reserve on May 7, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t claim to know the nature of why an NFL team would ask such a thing. I really don’t. I’m just speculating with my obscure answer above about being soft.
But yeah, I do think Goodell will tell the FO’s to clean it up a bit
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
did you read my reply to Western above? I have no idea why you would ask that. I’m just throwing darts, I don’t have a clue. Ask Geno Atkins I guess.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
I personally used to work with a former NFL player that played with Esera Tuola, the only outed gay player.
He personally told me that even though he personally would not have cared, the NFL is still incredibly homophobic, and he understood why Tuola never came out while he was playing.
Granted this is only one persons point of view.
But I am guessing that Atkins was asked the question with locker room chemistry in mind?
Again, I think that question is much, much more inappropriate than what was asked of Bryant.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 7, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
makes sense. i’m confused that you think one is inappropriate and the other is not though. They both have their own affect on a person. If your claiming its fair to interrogate a person that your investing millions of dollars in, then why is this one not appropriate? I’m just curious of your reasoning on this.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
its about context and what they can find from a question really. what can you find from asking if someone is gay? a lot less than if their mom was a streetwalker. neither one is a great question unprovoked, but one is completely irrelevant and insulting.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
not necessarily bross, what if lets say a kid was gay and he was really given a hard time about it by his parents, his classmates, and others. You can’t tell me that if your mom or dad, or even constant teasing from classmates (although I think most people have come to terms with this), don’t support you that it won’t have some kind of psychological affect on you.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
oh…there will always be examples. but being gay does not inherently cause problems in the way having a mom that is a prostitute can.
please be sensible here…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
well, if we are saying that we need to cover all the bases for investing millions, then I think that’s pretty sensible isn’t it.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
not really…
being gay does not have the inherent psychological trauma that comes from having a prostitute mom.
a better example would be someone who is fat. they can get socially and psychologically excluded like a gay person can be. lets just ask people if they were ever fat!
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Umm, being fat matters when talking about football players.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 10, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
My reasoning is simple.
If a person has been surrounded by crime his entire life, they are more likely to partake in criminal activities later on in their life. If they do this, they will probably never make a positive impact on my football team.
I have never heard of someone being unable to be a good football player because of their sexual orientation.
Short version: Coming from a life of crime matters to me. Being gay doesn’t.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 8, 2010 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I wonder why that hasn’t gotten as much press. That’s a very offensive question as well. Also it seems like it was asked in a flippant manner, almost jokingly. Granted can’t tell from the short remarks but i wonder what the context for that question was.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I think this particular situation might have been blown out of proportion, but it’s a very important topic.
In terms of employment, is an NFL interview to be treated as a normal job interview is treated? Do the players have the same rights that i have if I run down to McDonalds for a job?
With the added emphasis on character in the NFL (which is a damn good thing) how far will teams be allowed to go before they cross an imaginary line?
Will teams have to have some sort of league or legal rep (extreme i know) in the room to protect themselves from these situations?
Will this spawn a list of outside the bounds questions?
The league rapidly moving towards the direction of high character, as such these situations are going to arise. I’m just surprised it hasn’t happened before with as much money as these players make. I remember back in the days the Colorado teams were known for their gang and shady behavior I wonder what questions they were asked during the interview process. Would it have precluded Rae Carruth from being drafted?
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
Before I spend all day here, I’ll just sum my thought up like this:
The actual question had at least the potential to provide valuable insight into Bryant’s mental stability – negative or even positive.
As to the right to ask that personal of a question:
In general I would err on the side of privacy and say no, they shouldn’t be able to ask such questions without specific reasons. Asking a list of like questions to everyone would likely be harassment.
Specific to this case, it seems like there were specific reasons that led to this question being asked to Dez Bryant in particular. Poverty and race were not those reasons. Some combination of specific comments and known family criminal history gave rise to a situation where the question was asked. Here, I would side with the team. I think they have a right to vet players whom are to be awarded massive contracts with few (if any) reliable references that can vouch for their character. Even if that means they have to ask specific and uncomfortable questions.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
though I still don’t agree with the question, I would love to see a transcript or something of the questioning. That would clear much of our speculation up.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
by Kimble_79 on May 6, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, to be honest my opinion is probably in the minority…but if it’s true that Bryant offered up that his dad was a ‘pimp,’ and his mom ‘worked for him,’ I don’t think it’s out of bounds to ask that as a followup question. I mean, what did Bryant think most people would assume from that kind of statement?
Bryant went there first, he could have just said, rather ambiguously, that his dad had a ‘criminal past’ and so did his mother…and left it at that. If Ireland probed further then I would think he’s out of bounds b/c that kind of vague answer by Bryant is more than indicative that he doesn’t care to discuss it further…but offering up specifics such as ‘my dad was a PIMP and my mom worked for him’ , well, that is enough unsolicited specific information that I can not fault Ireland from thinking what he did and asking more specific questions.
" I guarantee victories in games 2,3 and 4." by Celtics own the refs on May 2, 2010 5:20 AM EDT reply actions
I think you are actually in the majority.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
Well, I meant nationally..it seems as if most (at least in the media more specifically) are of the opinion it was uncalled for no matter what the circumstances.
" I guarantee victories in games 2,3 and 4." by Celtics own the refs on May 2, 2010 5:20 AM EDT reply actions
by johnnyphoenix on May 6, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah i agree on that. Although personally I think the only reason it’s a story nationally is because it’s a story. I wonder how many truly are that concerned about it beyond the story aspect.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
yeah my thoughts are they’re trying to drum this up more than most people care to make it into, hoping somewhere down the line somehow ‘race’ will be injected into it, and then they really have a story….meh.
by johnnyphoenix on May 6, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
whenever I look at the top part that says
My Mom is not a prostitute. She is a nice lady.
I think of
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
by bross09 on May 6, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Did you really need 4 posts to show that?
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on May 6, 2010 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Tell me where else on earth someone can be kicked out of college and then still walk into a job on the first day and cash a check that is eight numbers long
Kicked out of college =/= year-long suspension
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on May 6, 2010 6:21 PM EDT reply actions
Ok, my bad.
Suspended for an entire season.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 10, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow! 280 comments arguing about the appropriateness of a question we do not know how was asked. It’s impossible to find any agreement on this issue because everyone can make up their own context of the situation. Therefore, I will disagree with everything said here and say that the team has no right to reject a player because his mother was/is a prostitute, and it was a good and appropriate question to get a full measure of this man.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on May 7, 2010 2:19 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
the team has no right to reject a player because his mother was/is a prostitute, and it was a good and appropriate question to get a full measure of this man.
Huh?
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
Therefore, I will disagree with everything said here
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
seriously, you still don’t get it?
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
No, I really don’t. Am I pulling a bross here?
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
by danvail on May 7, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOLOLOL…yes. He was messing with all of us by saying he will disagree with everything we have said. Then he said what you quoted. Meaning he doesn’t have an opinion, other than a strong opinion about not having an opinion.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
I guess, but the last part kinda kills it. I mean we debated for days about the appropriateness, and he jokingly says he disagrees with everyone by… agreeing with one side?
I appreciate the sentiment, but I’m calling poor execution on the joke. In keeping with my last comment, however, I will be responding to every comment regardless of need.
Actively seeking inspiration for a new handle
I think in that statement he was trying to agree with both sides, and hence disagree with both sides as well, but it came out poorly.
I agree, yet somehow disagree with the notion of agreeing.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 7, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
The point of my statement is that it could be a positive reflection Dez to say that he came from a difficult background.
Good Lord, Hollywood makes a movie about a star football player whose mother was a crack addict!!! In 2-3 years they will probably make a movie about Dez Bryant and how he overcame a prostitute mother to become an NFL star (it will be Beyonce’s chance to get the Oscar much like Halle Berry) . Is it wrong for an interviewer to see if Dez Bryant is the next Michael Oher?
Besides, the inappropriateness of whatever he might here in the interview will pale in comparison to whatever Dez will here in NY and Philly.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on May 8, 2010 10:56 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Art Modell is, has, and will always be the biggest prostitute the NFL has ever seen.
by Bernie19Kosar on May 7, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Hence, why I wondered about his lineage…
by Nuclear Power on May 7, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Kudos for knowing where I was going with the thought and spelling it out for everyone else.
by Nuclear Power on May 8, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Off topic, I know, but did any other MMA fans just watch Shogun crush Machida in round 1? It was awesome.

by 




















