Cleveland Browns Training Camp 2010: DL Preview, Part II (The Unknown Depth)
Titus Adams. Keith Grennan. Derreck Robinson. Kwaku Danso.
Prior to the feel-good pieces that were written on Danso, had you really ever heard of any of these players? I hadn't, and yet they are all 26 years or older with hardly any active roster NFL experience. If you're looking for a comparison, C.J. Mosley is 26 years of age and already has 5 years of NFL experience as a backup.
It's difficult to really form a scouting report on many of these players because there isn't a lot to go off of. So, in Part II, prepare for more of a brief introduction to each player's background and the roster spot they'll be fighting for in training camp.
5. C.J. MOSLEY - BACKUP DEFENSIVE END
C.J. Mosley (#69)
Height: 6-3
Weight: 305
Age: 26
Experience: 5 years
College: Missouri
Note: Has the most experience in Part II, but will that secure a spot?
Mosley played in 12 games with the Browns last year, recording 18 tackles and no sacks. He went on the injured reserve in early December with an ankle injury, which means he didn't have the opportunity to be much of a contributor during the team's late-season heroics.
Despite Mosley being a veteran, having ties to Eric Mangini from his days with the Jets, and the apparent lack of depth the Browns have on the defensive line, I'd imagine that Mosley will be fighting for a roster spot this camp. At most, I see the Browns carrying 6-7 defensive linemen. If Rogers, Rubin, Smith, and Coleman occupy four of those spots and the team wants to hang on to prospects like Schaefering and Geathers, then things might start looking a little iffy for Mosley.
In the end, I think Mosley's experience will allow him to retain a roster spot. He looked sharp in the preseason last year when he saw playing time, and while he didn't have a sack last year, he at least penetrated a few times and was also the man to deliver a rib-crushing blow to Lions QB Matthew Stafford on his Hail Mary attempt. He can still be an asset on third down passing situations.
Final Roster Odds: 80%
6. BRIAN SCHAEFERING - BACKUP DEFENSIVE LINEMAN
Brian Schaefering (#91)
Height: 6-4
Weight: 295
Age: 26
Experience: 1 year
College: Lindenwood
Note: Has been on-and-off Browns' practice squad since 2008 season
I really liked what I saw from Schaefering last year, who was able to see significant playing time after injuries to players like Rogers, Coleman, and Mosley.
He showed quickness getting into the opposing team's backfield and seems like he'd be a good rotation player for either the defensive end or defensive tackle position depending on if Ryan uses variations of the 3-4.
Schaefering's most memorable game came in Week 14 against the Steelers, when he registered 5 tackles with 1.5 sacks on Ben Roethlisberger. He also shined in Week 17 with 4 tackles against the Jacksonville Jaguars. For only playing in 4-5 games last year after being on the practice squad, I'd like to see Schaefering grab a roster spot this year. In minicamp sessions, he was already seeing playing time in the DL rotation since Rogers was still rehabbing.
Final Roster Odds: 75%
7. CLIFTON GEATHERS - ROOKIE DEFENSIVE END
Clifton Geathers (#97)
Height: 6-7
Weight: 299
Age: 22
Experience: Rookie
College: South Carolina
Note: Has rare arm length, but can he harness his talent for the NFL level?
The Browns selected Geathers with their final pick in the sixth round of this year's draft. According to Pro Football Weekly, Geathers has "(very) rare arm length and overall size" but "(plays) too tall and does not sink his hips and anchor well against the run." You can't expect sixth-rounders to be winners, but Geathers' size already has people talking. You might be somewhat familiar with Clifton's brother Robert, who plays for the Cincinnati Bengals.
One of the early criticisms on Geathers since coming to the Browns has been his demeanor. In minicamp during a non-contact kickoff drill, he hammered into rookie punter Jon Thoma. Later in the week, he reportedly got into a fight with a teammate (an offensive lineman).
Geathers is a project, and if we could let him slip to the practice squad, we probably would. Whether or not that is a possibility will come down to how much Geathers is able to use his arms effectively by staying low and gaining leverage on the tackles he goes up against. If he makes progress, I envision him making the final roster and contributing on special teams. If he looks completely raw, then other teams might not be willing to waste a roster spot on him.
Final Roster Odds: 60%
Practice Squad Odds: 40%
8. TITUS ADAMS - BACKUP DEFENSIVE TACKLE
Titus Adams (#62)
Height: 6-4
Weight: 305
Age: 27
Experience: 1 year
College: Nebraska
Note: Will Adams' former ties to Mangini, albeit brief, assist his roster odds?
Listed as a nose tackle, Adams first entered the NFL in 2006 as a seventh-round draft pick with, you guessed it, Eric Mangini's New York Jets. He stayed on the team's practice squad most of the 2006 campaign.
Adams departed from the Jets when the New York Giants placed him on their active roster late in the 2006 season. Over the next few years, he spent time on several teams' practice squads, including the Giants', Chargers', Bengals', and then the Patriots'. His stay with New England lasted two years, and he was even brought up last December to the active roster, recording the only two tackles of his NFL career against he Carolina Panthers.
The Browns signed Adams at the end of last season after he was waived by Patriots. A brief scouting report indicates that he can clog up the running game but can't sustain a high energy level for an entire game and has trouble reaching the quarterback. If Rogers focuses on DE, Adams will compete for the backup nose tackle role.
Final Roster Odds: 10%
9. KWAKU DANSO - UNDRAFTED ROOKIE DEFENSIVE TACKLE
Kwaku Danso (#75)
Height: 6-5
Weight: 336
Age: 28
Experience: Rookie
College: East Carolina
Note: Can Danso be this year's feel-good story of the NFL?
Danso will arguably be one of the most closely followed first-year players in this year's camp, despite the fact that he wasn't even drafted. He has already received press from the media for his compelling story and hard work ethic. If you haven't read the article, go here and check it out right now, because it is well worth it.
But there is no error. The Browns have indeed signed an undrafted free agent whose entire college career consists of three brief appearances at the end of ECU blowouts. And they did so because a few weeks earlier, defensive coordinator Rob Ryan – observing on East Carolina’s pro day – noticed Danso step through a door at 6-foot-5, 336 pounds and gasped "Who the hell is that?" to the Cleveland scouts standing beside him.
In the article, it says that Mangini told Ryan he could have one "project" player to develop. Through all of the players Ryan saw, Danso was the one that stuck in his mind, especially after bench-pressing 225 pounds 39 times. Even if Danso is a complete bust, which he may very well be with his lack of NFL experience, this has the potential to develop into one of those feel-good stories. If Danso simply doesn't have the untapped potential of an NFL lineman, then the only thing we've lost is one spot on the 80-man camp roster.
Final Roster Odds: 1%
Practice Squad Odds: 50%
10. KEITH GRENNAN - BACKUP DEFENSIVE END
Keith Grennan (#60)
Height: 6-4
Weight: 298
Age: 26
Experience: 1 year
College: E. Washington
Note: Suffered an injury in last year's opportunity drill, but should be ready.
Grennan began his NFL career in 2007 as a member of the San Diego Chargers when they brought him in as an undrafted free agent. He spent two years with the team, recording his only career tackle in 2008.
Prior to the 2009 offseason, Grennan was with the Browns. He spent most of last season on the team's practice squad, so this will actually be his second season with Mangini.
Grennan actually made some headlines last season as a member of the practice squad. He was the player who ruptured his patellar tendon during an "opportunity drill." Grennan had surgery, forcing him out of action for awhile. He should be recovered and ready for training camp, hoping to earn an opportunity to be on the team's practice squad.
Final Roster Odds: 5%
Practice Squad Odds: 60%
11. DERRECK ROBINSON - BACKUP DEFENSIVE END
Derreck Robinson (#67)
Height: 6-4
Weight: 295
Age: 28
Experience: 4 years
College: Iowa
Note: Has experience, but surely he's bounced around for a reason.
Robinson debuted in the league way back in 2005 as an undrafted free agent with the Chargers, so he is no stranger to the league despite still being relatively unknown. Here is how his career has panned out thus far:
- 2005-2006: San Diego Chargers
- 2007: Miami Dolphins
- 2009: Cleveland Browns
Apparently, Robinson has been better than just practice squad material, otherwise it's hard to imagine how he would have seen regular season action in each of his first three seasons despite being an UDFA. His best year came in 2006, when he played in 14 games, registering 14 tackles with 1.5 sacks and three passes defended. He was released by the Dolphins before the 2008 season, and was in camp with the Dallas Cowboys last year but didn't make the team's final roster. He was signed by the Browns in December last year. A brief scouting report indicates that he is decent at stopping the run but doesn't have a knack for making tackles or anticipating plays well.
Final Roster Odds: 10%
12. SWANSON MILLER - UNDRAFTED ROOKIE DEFENSIVE TACKLE
Swanson Miller (#95)
Height: 6-4
Weight: 310
Age: 23
Experience: Rookie
College: Oklahoma State
Note: Might get an opportunity at the NT position.
Playing two years at Oklahoma State, Miller saw action in 26 games and recorded 41 tackles, three sacks, two fumble recoveries, and two forced fumbles. I really don't have a lot to go on scouting-wise, so I had to defer to the archives of some our SB Nation affiliates. Here's what Burnt Orange Nation had to say about Miller prior to the 2009 season:
Backing him [Derek Burton] up may be JUCO transfer Swanson Miller, who is 6'4, 300 pounds and looks a bit more like an NT. Last season was Miller's first in the program, and he showed up in all 13 games. However, he apparently did not have a good spring (although he had a good spring game) and OSU fans would really like to see him make a big leap in his second season.
Stretching for more information, Miller "ran the 40 in 5.20 and 5.26 seconds, had a 27-inch vertical jump, a 7-foot broad jump, a 4.98-second short shuttle and did 22 reps in the bench press." That's all I've got folks, and it doesn't get much better for the next guy.
Final Roster Odds: <1%
Practice Squad Odds: 15%
13. BRIAN SANFORD - UNDRAFTED ROOKIE DEFENSIVE END
Brian Sanford (#70)
Height: 6-2
Weight: 280
Age: 22
Experience: Rookie
College: Temple
Note: Familiar with Mangini based on attending past camps
I found an interesting article on Sanford, in which he notes that he attended four of Eric Mangini's camps in Hartford before he went to college. Sanford returned to Mangini's camp this year as an instructor:
"I wanted to be like some of the guys here," Sanford said. "I wanted to be like (Browns defensive line coach Bryan Cox). The things he taught me, I took it with me. Working the camp now, I try to encourage the kids to do that because it helped me so much.
Sanford registered 86 tackles with eight sacks, three forced fumbles, and a blocked field goal during his time at Temple.
Final Roster Odds: <1%
Practice Squad Odds: 10%
DL Position Quality (Backups): Incomplete, not enough to go off of
This year's group of backups looks a lot different than last year's group, which featured the likes of Shaun Smith, Louis Leonard, Santonio Thomas, Melila Purcell, and Adam Hoppel. There seem to be a lot of players that we're taking fliers on, so hopefully a few of them pan out considering the ages of Rogers, Smith, and Coleman.
Remember that the order in which some of the players appear above doesn't hold much weight. There's really no way for me to legitimately declare that Adams is a better player than Robinson, or that Danso's odds are any better than Miller's or Sanford's.
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59 comments
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Comments
This doesn’t have much to do with our D-Line, but if you have any scouting questions, ESPN has a chat session at noon today with Matt Williamson. He was a scout for the Browns at one point and time. Here is the link
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/33193/nfl-with-matt-williamson
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
this is false
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
by Kimble_79 on Jun 30, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
obviously Mack should be at nose
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Jun 30, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
22 reps isn’t going to cut it at NT. Miller is toast.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
If he was, I’m glad we didn’t draft him. Nose Tackles should be strong. Tuba was top ten in his draft class with 32 and set the record at the Parisi Speed School prior to the combine (11 reps, 400 lbs.).
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
McCoy isn’t a nose tackle.
"Young men, I have no doubt that you're gonna do well today. But I have 1 favor to ask of you... SAVE JIMMY JOHNSON'S ASS FOR ME!" Lou Holtz
by TheRealSlimShady on Jun 30, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
And didn’t we already talk about how bench reps aren’t always a good measurable
"Young men, I have no doubt that you're gonna do well today. But I have 1 favor to ask of you... SAVE JIMMY JOHNSON'S ASS FOR ME!" Lou Holtz
by TheRealSlimShady on Jun 30, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Rubin’s 11 rep performance is a good strength indicator. Much better than who can rep something 45 vs 48 times.
I would love to see the NFL vary the weight on the BP tests.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
It would make a lot of sense to vary the weight by position.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Jul 1, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Or even let players pick which of 3 weights they would like to do. You can do 225, 300, or 375.
Just get them in the range of measuring strength more than endurance. I can bench press 45 lbs a hundred times, but that says nothing about how strong I am.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
that would make it harder to compare players though. what if one guy at a position chooses 300 and does a ton of reps, while another guy at the same position chooses 375 and does a bunch less? now we don’t know who is stronger/has better endurance. by forcing the same weight on people, you can compare apples to apples.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
If a guy does 40+ reps at anything but the highest weight, you don’t really count it as being impressive.
It definitely would not be an apples to apples comparison, which is what they are going for by standardizing 225. But I think it would be more useful.
Another way would be to have everyone do the most weight they can do 10 times. That way the reps are standard and the variable that matters more is varied.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
The problem with that is you know that every year there’d be some dumbass who’d try to lift too much and blow his small intestines out his asshole.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Jul 1, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Hilarious. Rec.
"Young men, I have no doubt that you're gonna do well today. But I have 1 favor to ask of you... SAVE JIMMY JOHNSON'S ASS FOR ME!" Lou Holtz
by TheRealSlimShady on Jul 1, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Broadcast live, this would actually improve the ratings among some demographics. Shh, the NFL may be listening!
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Jul 1, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
yes. I think Miller could be a good UT in a 4-3, being the bigger DT on the line while having a guy like a McCoy able to penetrate…he is not at all big enough though to be a NT. He also doesn’t look like he can put on that much weight (his 6’4’’ pound frame seems to be filled out).
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Miller good?
"Young men, I have no doubt that you're gonna do well today. But I have 1 favor to ask of you... SAVE JIMMY JOHNSON'S ASS FOR ME!" Lou Holtz
by TheRealSlimShady on Jul 1, 2010 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe decent is a better word…at least for a UDFA…I was meaning more as a conjecture about what position he would be the best in because of his body and skill set.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
He wasn’t even good in college. He didn’t start
"Young men, I have no doubt that you're gonna do well today. But I have 1 favor to ask of you... SAVE JIMMY JOHNSON'S ASS FOR ME!" Lou Holtz
by TheRealSlimShady on Jul 2, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s one freakin player, and he actually had a solid college player ahead of him.
"Young men, I have no doubt that you're gonna do well today. But I have 1 favor to ask of you... SAVE JIMMY JOHNSON'S ASS FOR ME!" Lou Holtz
by TheRealSlimShady on Jul 5, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Tom Brady rarely ever did till late in his College career. Neither did Hillis who has shown starter material, Felix Jones, the list goes on.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Jul 5, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I saw him play basketball a few times, he was awesome.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Jul 6, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
KENT WOOHOOO
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Jul 6, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Because he didn’t play football.
"Young men, I have no doubt that you're gonna do well today. But I have 1 favor to ask of you... SAVE JIMMY JOHNSON'S ASS FOR ME!" Lou Holtz
by TheRealSlimShady on Jul 6, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
So?
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Jul 6, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s why he didn’t start.
"Young men, I have no doubt that you're gonna do well today. But I have 1 favor to ask of you... SAVE JIMMY JOHNSON'S ASS FOR ME!" Lou Holtz
by TheRealSlimShady on Jul 6, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Still is a Pro Bowl NFL player who didn’t start in college. You lose.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Jul 6, 2010 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, Miller will be awesome because he only started in Junior College, which is a totally different situation than Gates but will no doubt produce the same result.
"Young men, I have no doubt that you're gonna do well today. But I have 1 favor to ask of you... SAVE JIMMY JOHNSON'S ASS FOR ME!" Lou Holtz
by TheRealSlimShady on Jul 6, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Hillis still played, just as a FB.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
And really the point is that usually it is a good sign if your guys started in college.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
but if they didn’t start, it doesn’t exclude them from being decent.
Kaluka Maiava didn’t start, he is a decent depth player.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Jul 6, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Right, but he was on the field quite a bit, regardless of if he began the game on the sidelines or field.
You want film on a guy. You want him to have experience. You want to see him succeed against a lower level of competition as opposed to failing to beat out his own teammates for PT.
TRSS has a point, and people are nailing him on slight hyperbole.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I will confess being slight hyperbolic in my statements. my only point was to point out that what limited we have about his skills and what I have seen of his body and h/w, he does not at all project as a NT in a 3-4…even with time
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Felix Jones had McFadden ahead, and Hillis played fullback.
Swanson Miller didn’t have anyone good ahead of him.
"Young men, I have no doubt that you're gonna do well today. But I have 1 favor to ask of you... SAVE JIMMY JOHNSON'S ASS FOR ME!" Lou Holtz
by TheRealSlimShady on Jul 6, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Still disproves your point.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Jul 6, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Jones and Hillis were good in college and here is my original comment.
He wasn’t even good in college
"Young men, I have no doubt that you're gonna do well today. But I have 1 favor to ask of you... SAVE JIMMY JOHNSON'S ASS FOR ME!" Lou Holtz
by TheRealSlimShady on Jul 6, 2010 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
If Geathers is sent to waivers he will be gone.
"Young men, I have no doubt that you're gonna do well today. But I have 1 favor to ask of you... SAVE JIMMY JOHNSON'S ASS FOR ME!" Lou Holtz
by TheRealSlimShady on Jun 30, 2010 2:49 PM EDT reply actions
I just can’t imagine a sixth rounder, especially if he has a mediocre camp, being a guarantee to be stashed on someone else’s 53-man roster.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Jun 30, 2010 4:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
And Brett Lockett
"Young men, I have no doubt that you're gonna do well today. But I have 1 favor to ask of you... SAVE JIMMY JOHNSON'S ASS FOR ME!" Lou Holtz
by TheRealSlimShady on Jun 30, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Defensive line has more positional value than a majority of positions, though. It might be worthwhile to hold onto him if they see long-term promise in training camp.
Art Modell gives me a hard one
I don’t disagree, I just question the belief that it means another team would snatch him to their 53-man roster.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Jun 30, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Couldn’t another team snatch him and put him directly on to their practice squad, or would he have to go through waivers again?
See: Matt Roth. You go through waviers once, each 31 teams looks at you. If they don’t want you, you get put on our P squad. If one of the teams like you, snatch! Theirs.
"Spartans never die Jorge. They're just missing in action."
by SpecialBrownie on Jul 6, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Right. But if they (one of those other 31) wanted to grab him as a project, they shoot him directly to the practice squad, right? Or would they have to initially put him on the 53?
All I know is that once they are on the practice squad, they can be signed to the 53 man roster of any team (except next your opponent w/in 6 days of the game).
They may be able to swing between teams’ practice squads as well, but I am not sure about that. I do know some teams pay their PS players as though they were on the 53 man roster (Pats did this with Billy Yates). My guess would be a good reason to do this would be to keep them from feeling out small raises on other teams’ squads.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I think if the team adds them to the 53-man roster, in order to put them on their practice squad, then would then have to go right ahead and waive the player. At that point, you create a situation where the original team can just choose to put the player on their practice squad again. Infinite loop commences.
There are probably detailed rules that prevent the infinite loop to some extent, but I don’t know them. The player should be able to decline certain moves too.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Jul 7, 2010 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
In the battle for third place in the poll, Brian Sanford is pulling away from Swanson Miller. 
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.

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