Around the Pound (7/8): LeBron James' Decision Coming Tonight

I’m not saying he wasn’t a good player, but he gets very overrated because of the team he was on.

That game does not work — because the first thing you hear from a Lakers fan (like me) is that if Worthy had been on any other team, he would have been the star the team was built around and his stats would be out of this world. Same thing you hear from a Bulls fan re Pippen. Are we right? Who knows? We will never know what would have happened if Chicago or another decently run team in the early 80’s got Worthy and tried to build around him. But my argument is just as valid as yours.

Well for one Durant is definitely better than Bosh and he plays a wing position which changes the dynamic a bit, so it’s not really a fair comparison.

Russell Westbrook is >>>> than Jose Calderon. Jeff Green is very solid, Harden is a promising rookie.

Turkoglu is a solid player but needs to have a system that fits him well to succeed which was what Orlando was. He has had numerous ups and downs in his career depending on the team he played for.

Well max contracts are going out to not top tier players. In the current NBA environment, the market is in place for both Gasol and Bosh to definitely merit a max contract. I personally would probably give one to Gasol before Bosh, but it is pretty close. In either case, as a post player, they should definitely NOT be getting a max contract if they are intended to be your number 1 option. It just would not work out.

Here’s the problem with forming opinions based on observations — often times we’re wrong, for many reasons. One, because we don’t see every player actually play very often. Two, because we all have human faults which limit our observations. We come in to a situation with preconceived ideas and we look for things which support those ideas. And we remember those things which support our beliefs and forget those that don’t. That’s called confirmation bias and it distorts a lot of people’s thinking, which is why I’m always inclined to believe statistics that someone’s observations.

For example — and this ties directly in to the conversation here — a few months ago on PTI Wilbon and LeBatard were having a debate about who you’d want to take the last shot in a game, Kobe or LeBron. Of course, over the past couple years the consensus in the NBA (outside of Lakerland, at least) is that LeBron is the better playerbut Kobe is the guy you’d want taking the last shot of the game. And that’s pretty much what Wilbon said. But LeBatard came back with statistics — LeBron has taken the last shot less often and made it more often (so he has made more and shoots at a higher percentage). Of course, Wilbon came back with the usual stuff about Kobe’s reputation but LeBatard kept repeating those facts. So maybe their performance doesn’t actual fit their repuation and we should change our opinions on them, but that’s hard to do. Once a player gets a reputation it’s hard to change in the media and among fans.

As another example, for years A-Rod was denigrated for being “unclutch”. He would hit a home run in the early innings but always strike out in the 9th when it counted. Of course, that was all a load of crap. His stats in close and late situations in the game were almost exactly like his overall stats, so he does just fine in the clutch. But he has a few bad games in the playoffs and his teams lose when they shouldn’t, and he gets the reputation as a hitter who fails in the clutch. Even though the statistics say otherwise.

I didn’t mean to go on a long rant here, and this isn’t directed at you specifically but towards this whole conversation we’re having here, but these are two important examples of where people’s opinion based on observation is not backed up by facts. So this is why I’m hesitant to beleve someone when they tell me that they know one player is better than another player, even though all the statistics tell otherwise — based on their observations or some intagible qualities which can’t be defined and that person knows very little about. People are saying that Kobe is better because he wants to win more than LeBron, and he takes over the game at the end because he’s got a “winner’s mentality” or whatever, but the statistics actually say the opposite. It’s LeBron that has been the better shooter at the end of the game, not Kobe. Without that argument, I find it hard to see any reason that Kobe is a better player right now than LeBron.

I was actually talking about ntn saying the Lakers would have been better off with Kobe.

what I mean is, how can you possibly defend that performance as helpful, let alone good?

Well, he did win, didn’t he?

Rings is part of the reason he is better. Far from the only reason. Going into the NBA playoffs tomorrow, who would you rather have? I don’t think many non-Cavs fans answer that with anything other than Kobe.

this point of his is going around in so many circles I am dizzy…

My point is, don’t act like Kobe is some kind of fierce warrior who will battle and fight to the end while at the same time calling LeBron a quitter.

Kobe didn’t quit. He imposed his will yes, but he didn’t quit.

the trade demands were not demanding they trade for people, Kobe wanted to be traded. he wanted out. And if his ego was really geared towards winning he wouldn’t have pushed shaq out of town. he did that for fame, not to win games.

I’m not saying its on the same level as the one hour special, but he was awfully close.

so he had a 1 hour ego-stroke fest? yes. But in reality, that is the only large difference I see with the scale of their actions.

and here you go, first result from google search of “Kobe Bryant criticizes Andrew Bynum”
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2909549

here’s another:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/arash_markazi/06/19/kobe/

“Andrew Bynum? What the f—-?” Bryant says in disgust. "Are you kidding me? Andrew Bynum? F—-ing ship his ass out. Are you kidding me?

A week later the duo again ran into Bryant in Newport Beach, after he had made his trade demands public, and pulled out a cell phone and recorded one of them telling Bryant, “Please tell us you’re staying.” Bryant responded by saying, “Get a Bulls uniform fellas.”

also, I find it hilarious that you ask me to find evidence of kobe trashing his teammates while offering up an instance yourself.

nobody has been talking stats for a long time, quit throwing that out there.

you’re missing our point. Kobe TRIED TO QUIT. just because his team wouldn’t let him doesn’t mean he’s not a quitter.

I agree…what lebron did was much worse, but its not like kobe didn’t try. Michael even considered it, but he had the confidence he could win in Chicago…I guess kobe had some lukewarm confidence, but lebron does not have enough confidence in his own skills to stay…I am convinced. If lebron had confidence, he wouldn’t NEED to go to miami.

There is everything wrong with him going to another team.

That’s not quantifiable.

What happens on the other side of the field?

Because what happens on average doesn’t happen against that defense.

They were playing great Boston D, making great players look bad and bad players look awful.

Two separate players in two separate games is completely different. But I would take Megatron with 5 drops, 12 yards, drawing double and triple coverage and allowing Kevin Smith to rush for 300 yards in a win over MoMass getting 100 yards in a game we lose to the same team en route to 200 yards total offense.

Similarly good on D is a big IF — you are forgetting that Kobe is no slouch on defense. Probably one of the five or ten best defenders in the league.