Cleveland Browns Training Camp Report: Day 20 (Morning & Evening) - Camp Now Closed to Public
by Chris Pokorny on Aug 19, 2010 11:05 PM EDT
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PrintThe final day of Cleveland Browns training camp practice for the public has come and gone, but the team will still be hard at work over the next couple of weeks as they get set for the regular season. What happened during the morning and evening sessions today?
TRAINING CAMP REPORT - DAY 20 [MORNING & EVENING] (8/19/10)
- Right Side of the Line: During the morning session, the right side of the offensive line still looked a bit gloomy with Billy Yates (RG) and Scott Kooistra (RT) playing with the first-team offense. During the evening session though, things got a little bit better when veteran tackle John St. Clair returned to the lineup. Veteran Tony Pashos was expected to return to practice in the evening too, but was only seen riding the exercise bike.
- Massaquoi Back in Time?: Although he missed the morning practice, receiver Mohamed Massaquoi returned to participate in the evening session. That might put him in line to play this Saturday against the Rams.
- Wallace-to-Royal: One of the offensive highlights of the morning practice came on a play in which Seneca Wallace fired the ball to Robert Royal on an out right to the sideline. Royal caught the ball before falling out of bounds for a nice completion.
- Chancellor Has a Good Morning: I guess rookie free agent defensive back Chris Chancellor wanted to make a name for himself to fans just before practice closed to the public. He had a nice morning session, intercepting two of Seneca Wallace's passes. Also, on a nice deep ball that Wallace threw to Syndric Steptoe, Chancellor was able to break up the play, according to Grossi.
- Hillis Levels Ventrone: You're really not supposed to make heavy contact in practice, but fullback Peyton Hillis reportedly "flattened" safety Ray Ventrone on a play. Hillis later caught a touchdown pass in a drill where he was part of the scout-team offense (imitating the Rams).
- Moore Continues to be a Threat: Although tight end Evan Moore has had a few drops here and there throughout camp (he had one today), he always seems to make up for them and the quarterbacks love throwing to him. Moore was on the receiving end of a 35-yard touchdown strike thrown by Wallace. After Chansi Stuckey dropped a pass in the morning from Jake Delhomme, Delhomme came right back on the next play and went to Moore.
- Ratliff Over McCoy: Not that Colt McCoy's roster spot is in jeopardy or anything crazy like that, but Grossi notes that Brett Ratliff had more reps in the morning session that McCoy. That might mean we'll see Ratliff before seeing McCoy against the Rams, something Mangini hinted at before the team's first preseason game.
- Wallace on the First Team: I'm not sure exactly what this means, but Eric Mangini said that Wallace will see some time with the first-team offense against the Rams, and that the first-teamers should play the first half. Maybe Delhomme will see a quarter and a half of action?
- Sheldon Brown's Speed: I'll quote the Canton Repository's Steve Doerschuk here in full regarding a note he had on Sheldon Brown's speed (check out his full article below):
In a one-on-one passing drill, Josh Cribbs was running stride for stride with 31-year-old CB Sheldon Brown. About 25 yards out, Cribbs began to pull away. Jake Delhomme unloaded a bomb that led Cribbs into the left corner of the end zone. Cribbs is fast but not a burner. The scene made me wonder about how much speed Brown has lost.
- Brownies: Mangini said that LB David Bowens could be ready to practice next week...WR Carlton Mitchell and CB Gerard Lawson walked off in the morning practice with injuries, but returned for the evening...S Abram Elam dropped a would-be interception thrown by Delhomme in the morning.
- T-Dog's Report at the OBR: A regular mod/poster over at the OBR, T-Dog, posted his review of the evening session of Browns camp. It's a nice little article with some notes on Reggie Hodges' different types of punts, and some of the "little" plays you don't hear reported on very much.
Thursday's Link Collection / Camp Sources
- Observations from Browns training camp, first practice (Akron Beacon Journal, Ulrich)
- Observations from Browns training camp, second practice (Akron Beacon Journal, Ulrich)
- Browns conduct last day of practice open to fans (Plain Dealer, Grossi)
- Browns' McCoy and Rams' Bradford to renew rivalry (Plain Dealer, Grossi)
- McCoy trying not to go crazy (Canton Repository, Doerschuk)
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9. Brown has never been that fast, especially in a long, straight run like that one sounds like it was.
When Rob Ry goes to cover-0 blitzes I would really like to see us line Wright and/or Haden up on the"burners". Luckily, the teams in our division all seem like they have one guy that is a bigger WR who isn’t a burner: Boldin, TO, Ward. Let Wright and Haden deal with Mike Wallace and Ocho.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
So far during camp, my favorite guy has been Evan Moore. He has a few drops, sure, but he can really make things happen out there (even my man Ozzie dropped a pass or two). It amazes me that someone cut him and no one else picked up on him. I think the Browns were lucky to grab him last year.
If you were listening to Bernie on last saturday’s color commentating, you would know that GreenBay was the team that cut Moore and only did so because, apparently, they’re FIVE DEEP at TE where all five could play well for other teams.
But personally, Hillis is MY GUY for camp so far. Hearing nothing but good things about him helps me get past my old man love for Quinn. Well, that and Quinn’s terrible playing so far, but whatever.
by BrownDawg1409 on Aug 20, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunately, circumstances beyond my control caused me to miss most of the game, otherwise I would have heard Bernie make that particular point. However, one could have conveyed such information in a more respectful manner as there is really no need for rudeness.
I don’t think he was really trying to be rude. A lot of us here like Evan Moore, as soon as he demonstrated he could catch the ball working the middle of the field last year, I was a fan.
Now below, that’s being rude.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
No points for the Phil Savage reference?
by BrownDawg1409 on Aug 21, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
If I was new I wouldn’t have gotten it. This guy has made a whopping 8 comments, maybe take it easy for a bit.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Doesn’t mean he hasn’t been reading comments, but alright then.
by BrownDawg1409 on Aug 21, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
He lost his junior year at Stanford to a dislocated hip (ouch!), and followed it up with a stress fracture in his foot that cost him half of his senior year. He signed with the Packers, and spent his rookie year on IR due to a preseason knee injury. In his second year with the Packers, he broke his hand in the preseason and was released.
He played a total of one full season of football between 2005 and 2009, losing significant time in every year but one to injury. Taking that into account, it’s easy to see why he was cut loose by Green Bay.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Aug 20, 2010 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for the background, I had no idea about his limited action due to injuries during that span.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Aug 20, 2010 7:34 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Seconded. Good rundown. Hope he holds up with us.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Aug 20, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
that’s the first I’ve ever heard of a dislocated hip. that must hurt, bad.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Aug 20, 2010 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s guys like Hillis, Moore and Benard that make a team successful. Guys who capably play within the system and come at a low cost. They are interchangeable, yet irreplaceable. Big names and big talent apply their own personal gravity to the team, making it difficult to function as a cohesive unit.
In the end, we will see how all of these disparate parts that naysayers believe to be junk and flotsam from other teams will coalesce into a winning team.
I’m heading down to Costco to stock up on plastic cups and pick up a few bags of ice. The Kool-Aid stand will be at the end of the driveway late Saturday night: cherry, grape, and Holmgren punch.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Aug 20, 2010 8:16 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 2 recs
Sign me up for a double shot of the Holmgren.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Aug 20, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
The orange will be part of a high-octane drink: called a Holmgren Haymaker Cocktail Punch.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Aug 20, 2010 11:12 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Guys who capably play within the system and come at a low cost. They are interchangeable, yet irreplaceable. Big names and big talent apply their own personal gravity to the team, making it difficult to function as a cohesive unit.
Sounds a little bit like the Patriots’ philosophy.
Colt McCoy... the cure for Cleveland's Eric Berry man-crush.
Which, since Mangini brought all these guys in, actually makes sense. He DOES come from that school of football philosphy after all.
by BrownDawg1409 on Aug 21, 2010 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe the players that are sure to play in regular season should cool their heels in the rest of the pre-season games.
I don´t like it, but it seems Delhomme is the designated starter.
I want a final order for the other quarterbacks on the depth chart. I am hoping the Colt McCoy can garner the back-up spot in a direct comparison to Seneca Wallace and Brett Ratliff. This is the most important issue right now.
Here are the guys, I think have a secure spot on the roster and are first on the depth chart:
OT Joe Thomas
OG Alex Mack
offensive lineman Shaun Lauvao
TE Evan Moore
WO Mohamed Massaquoi
FB Payton Hillis
TB Montario Hardesty
DT Ahtyba Rubin
NG Shaun Rogers
OLB David Vaikune
ILB Kaluka Maiava
FS Eric Wright
SS Abe Elam
I would love to see the monster linebackers Roth, Trusnik, Fujita and Gocong battle it out for the other defensive tackle spot. In my book they are too large and unwieldy to play linebacker.
If a cornerback is not fast, he should at least be a force to be reckoned with. The ones we have are not, except for T.J. Ward. Haden is exciting, but can he compensate enough for his lack of speed?
I see a glaring need for more sporty, versatile linebackers, thus the vacancy at the other outside linebacker and inside linebacker spots.
I dig pre-season, it´s the time of the under dog, and it´s very entertaining to see everyone duking it out for the spots on the depth chart or even remaining starting designations.
Just wondering, do you live in Ohio to have access to watching the Browns’ preseason games on television?
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Aug 20, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought someone had established he was in Europe, something about his apostrophes being at more of a slant.
"My mother always told me: ‘You will see the light of people when they hit adversity. You’ll get a good sense of their character." - Ironic words from LeBron James
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Aug 20, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
German-Dakotan.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Aug 20, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Very sneaky
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
Thanks for recognizing my attempt. He never responds to such attempts though.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Aug 23, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
josh cribbs must be sweating it right now, trying to secure his roster spot.
by Dawg Nuts on Aug 20, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Ha, rec.
Columbus til I die, Columbus til I die. I know I am, I swear I am, Columbus til I die!
"Turner, at midcourt...inside it, at the buzzer, GOT IT!!!!"
We're the Big Ten, who the F@*# are YOU??!?!?!
by Andrew Tolliver on Aug 20, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
He´s the punt and kick returner of course, sorry for the omission. I would welcome it if they can spare us the jack of all trades angle. He is extremely skilled for punt and kickoff returns only.
He’s been making a case for being a WR this preseason.
"My mother always told me: ‘You will see the light of people when they hit adversity. You’ll get a good sense of their character." - Ironic words from LeBron James
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Aug 22, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I´ve had another epiphany, and that is, that we are set to succeed with these players at these positions. It´s for the influential Browns constituents to screw up, as usual:
QB Colt McCoy
FB Payton Hillis
TB Montario Hardesty
FL Bobby Engram
WO Mohamed Massaquoi
TE Evan Moore
OT Joe Thomas
OG Alex Mack
C Paul Fanaika
OG Shawn Lauvao
OT Scott Kooistra/Tony Pashos
DT Ahtyba Rubin
NG Shaun Rogers
DT Matt Roth
OLB David Vaikune
ILB Kaluka Maiava
ILB ?
OLB ?
FS Eric Wright
SS Abe Elam
CB ?
CB ?
For the other two linebacker spots, we had four interesting ones, rather than the cumbersome ones we procured, in mini camp, what happened to them?: Dempsey, Louisville; Howard, Texas Tech; Smart, Colorado; Anders, Alabama;
Except for T.J. Ward and Asante, the other defensive backs are not only too small, add to that, none of them fulfills the speed requirements for that position.
But like I said, otherwise, I´m very confident with the players mentioned at the allotted positions.
I´m going to be a dork and use some imagery to jog your memory, regarding the type of sporty and gritty linebackers touted by mooncamping. These guys were unceremoniously dumped via the Browns mini camp:
OLB Eryk Anders, Alabama:
ILB Daniel Howard, Texas Tech:
ILB Jon Dempsey, Louisville
OLB Jeff Smart, Colorado
I´m not an I told you so type person, so I´m telling you now. Not giving these guys a chance, big goof.
Jimmy?
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Aug 21, 2010 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions
haha
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Aug 22, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Everyone knows that unless the Browns plan to keep 4 QB’s on the roster that Brett Ratliff is the odd man out. Mangini is probably just doing the guy a favor and playin him as much as he can in hopes that someone else picks him up after he’s cut.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they kept four. Wallace is going to be running and recieving and getting hit more than a QB normally would, Delhomme is on Social Security, and McCoy isn’t about to see any game action this year. I can see McCoy being inactive all year, and Ratliffe holding down the number three spot on the roster.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
How do you make McCoy inactive? Do you have to put him on injured reserve or something? I know we can’t put him on the practice squad.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Aug 20, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
on gameday, we have 53 people on roster but only 45 can play. An inactive qb can still play under rules (too long to explain on mobile phone)
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Aug 20, 2010 4:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, there’s 8 inactives for every game. I half expect both McCoy and Ratliff to be inactive and for Ratliff to be the inactive ‘third’ QB.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
Still think Ratty doesn’t make the 53 but ends up on practice squad. McCoy will be the inactive third QB all season.
"I spoil a lot of people with my play."
"But I mean, even my family gets spoiled at times watching me doing things that I do, on and off the court." -Lebron James
Ratliff is not eligible for the practice squad. He’s spent a year (more I think) on an active roster.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Aug 21, 2010 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
To which I would think that even if he were able too, he’d be snatched up on the waiver before that even happened.
by BrownDawg1409 on Aug 21, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Why would a team be so quick to snatch up Ratliff?
"I spoil a lot of people with my play."
"But I mean, even my family gets spoiled at times watching me doing things that I do, on and off the court." -Lebron James
He could be seen as an upgrade to alot of teams, as far as 3rd String QB’s go. Which is why Mangini is giving him the reps in the preseason. Ratliff is one of Mangini’s boys and he wants to do right by him and show other teams what he can do. He could certainly give the Dan Orlovsky’s, the Stephen McGee’s and the Bruce Gradkowski’s of this world a run for their money.
Which is why Mangini is giving him the reps in the preseason. Ratliff is one of Mangini’s boys and he wants to do right by him and show other teams what he can do.
To what end? I can’t see there being any trade market for Ratliff.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
just to give him a shot at landing a job once he’s cut.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Aug 21, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
That would be awfully nice of Mangini, but for the sake of the team, I’d rather he gave the other three gentlemen (and our receivers) those preseason reps.
I think Ratliff might catch on somewhere but I don’t see a trade payoff to showcasing him either. Ratliff has had plenty of time to show something; the good of the team should come first now.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Aug 21, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
If we’re wasting reps on a guy who we know won’t be here and who has zero trade value, just to give the guy a chance to showcase his talents for another team, then Mangini needs to be fired.
I don’t think this is the case though. If a player is getting reps, they have a shot at making the team. This business of ’Mangini’s guys’ and the preferential treatment they supposedly get is bullshit.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Aug 21, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It could also be slight leverage for UDFA’s in the future who choose which team they want to sign with. If you see a team only gives two quarterbacks a shot in the preseason, it might be better to try out for a team where you know you’ll be given a chance.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Aug 21, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I can buy that as an explanation for Ratliff’s playing time. Not sure that that’s what’s going on in this instance, though.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Aug 21, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t think that was the case, just trying to explain his line of thinking.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Aug 21, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you are overrating Ratliff’s value.
by Bernie19Kosar on Aug 21, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
if it comes down to a special teams “ace” like vetrone/sorensen/costanzo, I think they’d get the spot over ratliff for the impact they’d have on gameday. If McCoy needs to play due to injury, we’ve got a good run game for him to work off of and manage for a quarter or two.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Aug 20, 2010 4:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’d be mad if we let Constanzo go in order to carry 4 QBs.
"I spoil a lot of people with my play."
"But I mean, even my family gets spoiled at times watching me doing things that I do, on and off the court." -Lebron James
Yeah, I don’t think Costanzo is anywhere near the cutoff line.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
I would rather get rid of Sorensen and make Ward play ST full time.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Either Sorenson or Ventrone, possibly even both, are going to get cut is my predicition. And I’m fine with that since I think we have guys who can start, like T.J., and still contribute heavily on ST. In fact, I would even go so far as to say Ward is better on ST than either of them.
by BrownDawg1409 on Aug 21, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Ventrone has made some very good plays on ST. I have been wanting the Browns to replace Sorensen for several years. I think Asante probably has to come close to his level of play on ST and show promise as far as being an actual safety for that to happen.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
And I was hoping the right side would be better this year...
“During the evening session though, things got a little bit better when veteran tackle John St. Clair returned to the lineup.”
Things got better when St. Clair returned? That is frightening.
by Monsters of the Midway on Aug 20, 2010 11:44 PM EDT reply actions
once womack and pashos are healthy, things will be better.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Aug 21, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
And Lauvao.
Hopefully they can all get healthy at some point.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Lauvao is healthy but dealing with a personal issue.
"I spoil a lot of people with my play."
"But I mean, even my family gets spoiled at times watching me doing things that I do, on and off the court." -Lebron James
I think I remember hearing he should be back next week.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Aug 21, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Even better for his chances to be on the field. I was surprised by his level of play in Green Bay in a good way.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I’d really like to see him crack the starting lineup and make an impact. If Lauvao can lock down RG it seems like that would buy the Browns some time to address RT for next season and eventually LG.
But I am getting way ahead of myself now :P
by Monsters of the Midway on Aug 21, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
If we don’t get a better RT soon—even an average stopgap player—we won’t be able to put a young franchise QB on the field and expect him to live. I think finding one ASAP is just fine to think about.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
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