Instant Recap: Same Story, Same Result for Browns
The Cleveland Browns lost their home opener to the Kansas City Chiefs by a final score of 16-14, dropping their record to 0-2 on the year. The script of the game was pretty much the same as last week's loss to the Buccaneers. How so?
- The Browns had a decent first half offensively, putting 14 points on the board.
- The game was made a lot closer when Seneca Wallace threw one of the worst interceptions possible in the first half -- a pass to the sideline that was an easy pick six for cornerback Brandon Flowers.
- The Browns did run the ball a little more this week, but often without fullback Lawrence Vickers.
- The defense played very well again, picking off Matt Cassel twice. They didn't yield a single touchdown, and only had one case where the Chiefs really had a good drive on them.
- Cleveland's offense shut down in the second half, with no points and minimal yardage.
There were new nuisances this week, such as Phil Dawson's missed field goal and a lot of the calls by the officiating crew. I'll discuss those more in depth when I do my full recap of the game. Until then, this is your spot to react to what is now looking like a gloomy season.
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My only satisfaction comes from imagining the sh*tstorm that is going to rain down from Holmgren onto the responsible parties. I like to visualize that.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 19, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
looking at the schedule ahead, i expect maybe 1-3 wins. i hope that they will get a new OC, daboll is not good.
Jake is my hommeboy
and that is if the moon.stars,mars and saturn all line up just right
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Thankfully last year we didn’t need an OC to beat Buffalo. Hopefully this year will be the same.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
My only observations for the game:
1.) Officiating screwed us.
2.) Daboll must be fired before the season is over. He is absolutely terrible.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 19, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 12 recs
1) Definitely
2) if this keeps up, for sure
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
It has kept up long enough. The time is now.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
Concur, and rec the original post.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 19, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry but this sounds a little rash and reactionary.
Daboll actually showed some promise in the last 4-5 games. have we forgotten that? do we have such short term memory that after 2 bad games, we are ready to clean house of an organization?
this sort of emotional response and reactionary decision making is why we haven’t been able to stick with a head coach for a long period of time here. its also partly why we can never stick with a QB (look how we turned on couch when holcomb had one good game). Its why we have so much instability in this organization. I hope everyone thinks about all of this and then by wednesday, sees how they feel. I think there are at least 1/4 of the people spouting this opinion that WILL change.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
I don’t think we did much different in the last four weeks of last season except completely give up on Brady Quinn. I don’t know if “abandoning the pass” qualifies as progressing as a coordinator.
Right, I don’t know what people saw in Daboll at the end of last year. The team realized that they didn’t have a credible QB, so they ran a lot.
Rash and reactionary, bross? Maybe. But I have been consistent in this call for the last 10 months. It is time.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
…also look at our game against detroit and against san diego. Its not just those 4 wins. thats why I said 4-5 games (I was including SD but forgot about Detroit). we lost those games, but not for a lack of offense. our offensive playcalling (especially passing the ball) looked very good in those games.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
You are really reaching. Like really.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 19, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
nope. the playcalling was solid from the lions game on. it might have not been great, but not enough to fire someoene over. This playcalling over just two games is also not enough IMO to fire someone over. Not even combined do I feel it deserves a firing. definitely a talking to by mangini or holmgren or someone. However, I just think it would be rash to make a decision like this after 2 games. maybe you have felt this way about daboll, but most are just going off of these last 2 games.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Right. The Lions game. One game in the middle of last season was not enough to fire someone over. It was great. Just ok. Against an awful defense. Just terrible.
And that is the only thing that you could point to?
You are really, really reaching.
I’m making my opinion based on 18 games. You are pointing to one game. The burden is on Daboll- why should he be kept? Continuity? Yikes.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
The biggest issue I have with Daboll is the lack of adjustments at halftime. There have been too many games, going back to last year too, where we were ahead at the half and then could do nothing in the second half. Other teams (coaches) adjusted to us.
Adjustments are the key! It totally seems like we never adjust to anything for the second half. They adjust to us, and we go, huh? what? Are we playing a game? It’s football? Football? Really? I’ve never seen a team look so clueless in the second halves of these first 2 games!!
Over an opinion of 18 games, I am not fond, but need a couple more games like this to say he is truly the problem.
(playing devils advocate here) When he came to cleveland too, he was expecting to have both Braylon Edwards and kellen Winslow. Then we get rid of kellen winslow and braylon edwards. maybe he felt that he could get something out of BE if the FO gave him the chance, but they didn’t.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your devil-advocating is reaching.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 19, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
fine. every point I make is a reach because daboll is the worst OC in history and giving him any credit for anything is a reach…ya happy?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Sure.
I’m all for an intelligent defense of Daboll. But pointing to one game against the worst team in the league 9 months ago, an island in the middle of a year of suckiness, and then backing it up with the thought that he deserves some kind of pass because he lost Edwards and Winslow… well, reach is the most appropriate word.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 19, 2010 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t soil the word reach Bross.
You’ll ruin Halo for me forever.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 19, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wasn’t pointing to one game though. you keep saying that but I pointed to every game from the detroit game onward…except against Cincy where our playcalling regressed some (but the problem there was more execution from what i remember)
I don’t think he deserves to get a pass b/c of BE and Winslow. That i can say is a reach (and I know I commented after you pointed this out, i was just getting tired of reading the word reach). I was just trying to play devils advocate, which sometimes you have to reach to do…especially here where its hard to truly advocate for daboll being a good coordinator.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Once again, I feel like I’ve given my time for nothing. I guess you don’t think Daboll is good. I really have no idea what you think at this point on the topic. That he isn’t good, but shouldn’t be fired?
Anyway, I don’t think his playcalling was all that impressive from the Lions game on. He caught some lightening in the bottle with Harrison and some wild cat after his quarterbacks totally tanked. I just don’t give him a lot of credit for that. I didn’t then and I won’t now.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 19, 2010 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
That he isn’t good, but shouldn’t be fired?
something like that. I think he isn’t particularly good, but am not in favor of firing him 2 games into the season.
I guess we can just agree to disagree on the games after the lions game. I thought he showed some improvement.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
The desire to eliminate Daboll is not based on two games. We have all of last season as a database, lest we forget. As much as circumstances at the end of last year played into how those last four games went down, I was willing at the time to give him a little credit for some sort of progress there.
The last two games here make me think he was just forced into something by circumstance that happened to work out. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 19, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I was totally baffled and dumbfounded that he wasn’t canned by Holmgren, Heckert, or Mangini before the start of the season. It was the biggest shock of the offseason, and I couldn’t rationalize it no matter how I tried. These two games are just piling on at this point.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 19, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
If you haven’t seen enough Brown’s football to know that Brian Daboll is in way over his hea as a NFL playcaller, then your measure of offensive sucktitude is unreal.
I can’t imagine how anyone can defend a dumbass who thinks having Delhomme/Wallace combine to throw 68 times is a good idea.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 19, 2010 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I felt the gameplanning today was a bit better than last week…but that isn’t saying much.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
How was it better?
I’m not saying that Daboll is the sole problem, far from it, but don’t whiz on my leg and tell me it’s raining.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 19, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I only say its better because we ran the ball more and didn’t rely solely on the pass. In that sense we were better but that makes it marginally better…I am trying to just be positive and point out one thing they did right, but they still have a ton of things to work on.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
1st quarter
7 runs
13 passes
2nd quarter
11 runs
5 passes until final draft (3 passes)
3rd quarter
6 runs
5 passes
4th quarter
1 run
7 passes
This is for today’s game.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
Draft should be drive. All this draft talk has my mind scrambled.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
First half 53 yards on 18 carries 1 td and 1 fumble.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
Agreed.
Look, throwing is usually the more effective way to gain yards and score points. But Daboll has totally ignored the team’s strengths and weaknesses. And that is about as bad an indictment as you can have on a coach in my opinion. It shows a football mind that isn’t flexible enough or creative enough to be a NFL coordinator.
These games were low scoring, we were winning most of the time, and we have a talented group of runners. The number of carries for Hillis, Harrison, CRIBBS, Wallace and Davis are all lower than I would like to have seen. It is amazingly bad.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 19, 2010 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But Daboll has totally ignored the team’s strengths and weaknesses.
Yeah, it seems Daboll has forgotten how great Vickers was over the last half of the season. I don’t understand why he is barely being used. And why they didn’t use a similar game plan as the one they had in the win against the Chiefs last year doesn’t make sense. The Chiefs’ D didn’t have an answer to the play of the OL and Vickers’ blocking last year. How do you ignore that?
Colt McCoy... the cure for Cleveland's Eric Berry man-crush.
The number of carries i agree was low, but the numbers are scewed. Take away harrisons 39 yard run and he was averaging under 2 yards per carry. Now Hillis was a different story, the dude is a beast, but…….my question is where is james davis, did we give up on him? I love the run game but I really thing that our major concern right now is not the run game but the play calling and not because Daboll is aweful, he just hasn’t realized that the right side of our line cannot block any of our grandparents let alone a defensive end. Three step drops and throw the damn ball, thats the key. Manning has done it for 10 years why can’t we. (before anyone says it, I’m not comparing delhomme to manning, just saying he should have the ball no more than 4-5 seconds.)
We’ve all of a sudden got a lot of good tacklers. Progress.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
I didn’t even read the whole thing. Daboll is a job-keeping douche.
i don’t give a da*m what the “big picture” strategy is. If you’re losing games to get there, it is NOT effective.
by discoinferno083 on Sep 19, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
i don’t give a da*m what the "big picture" strategy is. If you’re losing games to get there, it is NOT effective.
I strongly disagree with this.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
On its face, I too disagree with that statement. But besides draft picks paying dividends, what have the last two games done for the “big picture”? And I ask that earnestly.
by Western Reserve on Sep 20, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Our defense has looked better than anything I remember seeing in the past from the New Browns.
We’ve lost 2 games by a combined 5 points. We are actually competing in games and losing them because we mess up, not because the other team is ridiculously better than us.
I don’t think it’s fair to say “besides draft picks paying dividends” because that’s exactly what we need to be seeing in the big picture; improvement, and young talent. I still don’t think we have enough of it (particularly in our DL/LBs) but we are getting there.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I wasn’t trying to unfairly exclude the positives of our draft picks, I merely meant to exempt it because it was the most obvious example of “big picture” progress to me. I think your other examples of progress are fair, though it points to this season being a long slog — especially when we are routinely too incompetent to win the ‘easy’ ones.
by Western Reserve on Sep 20, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
This.
KC and tampa bay are exceeding the expectations people had for them going into the season. personally, I thought tampa would be lucky to win 5 games and I took them for granted. they look much improved, especially on D.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
true…because its that early. However, I think the other games they won were more of the exceeding expectations. the browns, Bucs, and Chiefs all finished with similar records last year, so the games were expected to be closer. however, I don’t know how many people had KC over SD or the Bucs over the Panthers. Personally, I didn’t
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
I agree with this although, looking at it now, the Panthers might challenge us for the number 1 pick. It’s Claussen time!!
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
You know what this Browns team needs? A Quarterback and a true #1 Wideout.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
I’m on the Jamarcus Russell bandwagon with Bernie. Add a little VJax and see what happens.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
I’d rather resign Ratliff.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 19, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, but with a great LT, good RBs, passable QB, and a few interesting WRs, they HAVE to score more than 0 points in two second halves combined.
And if the defense is going to be this solid, we might not need much more than that.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
QB play is definitely the main issue. We ran all of those go routes because the Chiefs D was daring Wallace to throw deep. It worked once with Cribbs, but worked out for the Chiefs every other time. Until we get a QB, we are going to keep losing.
Defense was awesome again.
I hate that the majority of our deep routes are fades/gos.
We really aren’t finding much success with those, I’d like to see more options that are deep-ish but not just running in a straight line.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
a post or a flag or a combination thereof would be appreciated.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 20, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I am not sure if I have ever seen us run something like double Smash or smash with another vertical-ish route.
I would love to see us do anything else and go away from the fade/comeback stuff because we just aren’t good at it.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I’m thinking we need to draft a QB in the first round, unless the FO truly believes Colt can get it done.
I personally like Ryan Mallet a lot, and before people jump on here about character concerns, I’m waiting to hear something that isn’t unsubstantiated rumor.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Luck’s was 56%, Locker’s was even lower I think.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
in a system that QBs tend to do well in, but can’t repeat that success (Chris Redman, Brian Brohm, Dave Ragone). he has much more physical skills than these guys, but can’t even put up as good of numbers in petrino’s offense which has shown to be fairly QB friendly.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
I know we all mock walterfootball, but his scouting report seems to pretty accurate from what I’ve seen.
I have to agree. mostly walterfootball seemed like a tool because of how he salivated over jimmy fratboy clausen. I occasionally like some of the other stuff he says, especially about Mallett. he did say malletts draft stock is rising, as it should be, but even he still had some somewhat major miscues and WTF plays in the last couple weeks that against a better team, would have turned out differently.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Petrino was Redman’s OC for one year and he didn’t coach Ragone, John L. Smith did.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
petrino learned his offensive system from John L. Smith. Petrino coached in multiple stints under smith as an OC. technically Petrino didn’t coach Ragone but when I refer to the ‘petrino system’ it is really an extension of John L. Smith too.
Overall, guys from this system have never lived up to the expectations in the NFL (even if you include Jake Plummer who was probably the most talented guy coached by either of them, but still was a disapointment of sorts in the NFL)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
the Lions actually signing talent….although getting screwed by refs…are starting to look like geniuses.
by discoinferno083 on Sep 19, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
the lions drafted the high end talent on their team. Their QB, #1 WR, and RB were all first round picks I believe.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Not blaming officials, but they were awful today. The Harrison fumble, the 4th down play (which was unquestionably a turnover on downs) and the roughing the passer.
Apparently defensive players can no longer dive to sack the quarterback. They must grasp him gently by the waist and escort him to the ground.
by AG7 on Sep 19, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ray Lewis had a bogus tripping call called on him today as well. But I didn’t care, because it’s Ray Lewis and he plays for the Ravens.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
Ray Lewis had a skipping call called on him today as well
fixed…sorry I just really hate the Ravens
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
by Kimble_79 on Sep 19, 2010 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes to all of this. The roughing the passer made me want to stop watching football forever (see my post from last month). The other two were so blatantly missed on the field, but the replays weren’t conclusive enough. Everone loves instant replay, but it doesn’t make up for terrible officiating.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
It was unneccessary roughness for leading with the helmet, not roughing the passer. They’re two completely different penalties.
And even if the fourth down conversion is overturned it still leaves a good chunk of yards before a field goal after the offense showed nothing for the final two quarters.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
they called it on the field both. they definitely said ‘roughing the passer’
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
The ref explained that it was unneccesary roughness for leading with the helmet. I’m not sure how much clearer he could’ve been.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
It doesn’t make it any better of a call/rule. It is an embarrassment.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
Doesn’t change the fact that it is a stupid rule. I’d be embarrassed to defend that call if my team won because of it.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Excuses.
Overlooking the fact the Browns couldn’t move the ball in the second half because our defense was fresh…because (shockingly) the KC offense dominated the half. We milked the clock and made key plays, even though we went without a TD. This game wasn’t won nor lost because of officiating. The Browns didn’t make key plays when they had to. That’s all.
by SupremeChief on Sep 20, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
nobody is claiming the chiefs don’t deserve that win. The officials didn’t make our offense inept. What we are saying is bad calls and their effect on a game shouldn’t be overlooked.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 20, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not disagreeing with horrible officiating.
I was disagreeing with Rufio’s comment. “I’d be embarrassed to defend that call if my team won because of it.” The Chiefs didn’t win due to that call. Furthermore, the officials called it fairly. Kendrick Lewis was flagged for leading with the helmet also.
by SupremeChief on Sep 21, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
no, Lewis was called for helmet to helmet contact, and deservedly so. he went out of his way to hit the receiver in the head. Our linemen got called for leading with the helmet, which is a completely different penalty. No helmet to helmet contact was ever made on the QB hit.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 21, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I strongly disagree with that assessment.
The replay clearly showed Kendrick attempting to lower his helmet so as to avoid contact. The problem is, he led with his helmet and didn’t react fast enough. That, and momentum probably worked against him. Either way, that penalty was deserved as was the penalty called against the Browns.
by SupremeChief on Sep 21, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
how about someone post a link to this aformentioned replay. I wanted to see it but couldn’t find it.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
I tried YouTube with no luck.
I’ll see if someone at AP can create a GIF image of it.
by SupremeChief on Sep 22, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
but the rule against helmet-to-helmet hits is a good one. the rule against touching QBs is not.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 21, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah, and that's where we disagree.
Though they are different penalties, they can go hand-in-hand. Tackling leading with the helmet could lead to incidental helmet-to-helmet contact (which is what Lewis did). I think both rules are fair.
This isn’t one of those questionable roughing the passer calls either. The refs stated the call was made because the Browns player led with his helmet.
by SupremeChief on Sep 22, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I was embarrassed to have that call go our way. Its football, people are going to hit each other.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
You were embarrassed with the penalty on Lewis?
That was a good call by the refs. Lewis incidentally made contact with your player’s helmet. Could have been dangerous. That’s why I defend the leading with helmet penalty. It prevents incidents like this.
by SupremeChief on Sep 22, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Obviously, it doesn’t prevent incidents like this. It is arbitrary because football players continue to play football, despite the rules changing around them.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
It doesn’t prevent 100% of incidents, but how can you say it is arbitrary and hasn’t prevented blows to the head?
by Western Reserve on Sep 23, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
You aren’t looking at this fairly. We aren’t saying it’s the officiating’s fault, just that they were terrible.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I'm being more than fair.
The ONLY bad call in the game was the Harrison fumble. Everything else was pretty consistent. You don’t see me griping about the holds against Tamba which went undiscovered. Why? I know there is holding on every play, and there is little you can do to stop it.
It’s easier to blame officiating when your team loses. I get that. It was an ugly win for us and a dogfight until the end. I guess my point is, officiating rarely decide games. Situations like the Bears/Lions game is an example of the refs deciding a game.
by SupremeChief on Sep 21, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know how to say this more clearly, so I’m going to try all caps:
NO ONE IS SAYING WE LOST BECAUSE OF BAD OFFICIATING.
we lost because we deserved to. that doesn’t mean the officials weren’t terrible.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 21, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
You're griping over a penalty which was a clear infraction of the rules.
Why not gripe about the Harrison fumble? That was the worst call of the game.
by SupremeChief on Sep 21, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I have been griping about the Harrison fumble! multiple times.
Go back and read your post that I replied to. where in there does it mention a specific penalty? You are trying to turn this into a discussion about one borderline call when the original discussion was about multiple awful calls.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 21, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
My point is the "borderline" call was a fair penalty.
It’s a clear infraction of the NFL rules. A player cannot lead with the helmet. The Browns defender tackled Cassel helmet first. That warrants a flag and is the right call. How does making the right call constitute awful officiating? I’m not saying the officiating wasn’t terrible at times. They were, especially on the Harrison fumble. I’m just saying you can’t lump that late flag into the bad call or “borderline call” category.
We can discuss the Harrison fumble to our heart’s desire because that was blatantly bad officiating. I was even saying it would be overturned because his elbow hit the ground before the ball came loose. I think the problem lied in not having conclusive evidence to overturn it. Harrison’s arm shielded the ball, so it was hard to determine exactly when he lost possession of it (he could have began bobbling it before his elbow hit the ground). I still think it was a bad call.
by SupremeChief on Sep 22, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
See my post below. We lost because we lost, not because of any call—and I never said otherwise so stop putting words in my mouth. But that call was borderline shameful. I hope you feel good about it.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Then using your logic, our safety Lewis shouldn't have been flagged for leading with his helmet.
You can’t have it one way.
And I didn’t put words into your mouth. You implied the Chiefs won because of a call I thought was more than fair. Seriously, read what you said. It may not have been intentional and was probably just venting. But what you said, how you worded it, was particularly incriminating.
by SupremeChief on Sep 21, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
again, helmet-to-helmet =/= leading with the head.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 21, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I realize they are two different penalties, but the rules clearly state a player cannot lead with the helmet. Lewis WAS leading with his helmet, was he not? I have a feeling even if it hadn’t been helmet-to-helmet contact, he would (or should) have been flagged for that kind of tackle irregardless.
by SupremeChief on Sep 21, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t see what this has to do with the argument. yes, Lewis led with his head (which should have been a second personal foul call). I don’t see how you can look at the roughing the passer penalty as a comparison for what Lewis did.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 21, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Because both players led with the helmet.
It wasn’t your typical roughing the passer penalty. Sorry, I thought you knew why the penalty had been called. This discussion or debate has been a misunderstanding.
by SupremeChief on Sep 22, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
He shouldn’t have been. Both of those rules are awful. Incriminate that.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Not to interject between you and the KC fan who seems to like to puts words in people’s mouths, but are you really dead set against the League’s attempts to mitigate concussion and brain injury? I don’t care for the extent they’ve gone to protect QBs, and when I watched the hit on Moore live, I wasn’t particularly fond of receiving that call. But really, how else does the NFL address these issues if not by assessing penalties and making it a point of emphasis that the officials disallow clear shots to the head? The NFL is under quite a bit of pressure to find solutions to make a very violent game at least a little bit safer.
by Western Reserve on Sep 21, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Get rid of the helmets?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704402404574527881984299454.html
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
Right, we’ve talked about that here before. That’s an interesting article.
by Western Reserve on Sep 21, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions

If that’s the case, we could always go the other way…
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
by golanbatrac on Sep 21, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
After all, players these days do move at ludicrous speed.
by Western Reserve on Sep 21, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They’ve gone plaid!
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 21, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Then I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.
I feel the rules are more than fair, especially since they’re enforced to help ensure the safety of football players.
by SupremeChief on Sep 22, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
16 to our 13. however, they were 0-3 inside the red zone (and when they calculate that, a FG counts so they just flat out stunk in the red zone). we just made misakes that cost us the win. plain and simple.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
yep. neither team exceeded 320 yards of total offense. (and the average offense in 2009 had almost 340 yards of total offense). both teams were terrible on 3rd down and terribly inefficient. (both teams under 7.5 yards per passing attempt, both under 4 yards per carry
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
It certainly made for a long, mostly boring second half.
by Western Reserve on Sep 20, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
yep. the worst part is, that was the only half I was able to watch consistently. I was mostly listening to the first half on radio while occasionally glancing at the TV
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Since when do FGs not count?
Our offense protected the ball, controlled the clock, and scored points because of the sustained drives. The announcers made it clear which team was dominant in the second half. At one point, the Chiefs had almost 100 second half yards to the Browns’ measly 30 yards. You can’t tell me that isn’t dominating the half.
by SupremeChief on Sep 21, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
At one point, the Chiefs had almost 100 second half yards to the Browns’ measly 30 yards
that does not prove you had a ‘Dominant’ offense in the 2nd half. he was saying that your offense didn’t dominate. just because our offense sucked, doesn’t mean your offense dominated. you know, an offense plays a defense, right? if an offense dominates, it is dominating a D not the other team’s offense. whether or not the browns offense was lacking is completely irrelevant to whether the chiefs ever dominated our D.
FGs do count. However, most competent offenses usually score at least one offensive touchdown in a game and the Chiefs had none. Its a sign of the browns improved D and the fact that your offense is still a work of progress.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Your first FG was a result of a blown call.
by HenryDawg on Sep 21, 2010 9:54 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm assuming you're referring to the leading with the helmet penalty.
It was a fair call. They were being consistent. A similar penalty was called on Lewis for leading with his helmet even though he lowered his head in an attempt to avoid helmet-to-helmet contact.
by SupremeChief on Sep 21, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
whoah, there is a ton wrong here. The first field goal was after the most terrible fumble call I have ever seen in my life. seriously, the guy that watched that replay and thought it was a fumble needs to be fired. yesterday.
Lewis was called for helmet-to-helmet contact, and he most certainly did not lower his head to avoid anything. if you watch the play again, he actually jumped in order to make contact with the receiver’s head.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 21, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly, I was referring to the fumble
by HenryDawg on Sep 24, 2010 11:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
This team is just bad.No #1 RB , No true #1 WR got alot of #3 WR’s and no one to take over the game when we need it.
Then the Staff on this team is bad why leave one of your best run blockers out when you are trying to run the football?
Maybe Kolb will get pissed and Heckert can grab him if he loses the starting job, he might be an improvement, right?
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 19, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
!?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I think this team is an above average QB and a new OC away from at least pushing for the playoffs.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 20, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed. except i would at at least a passable #1 WR. if we had a passible #1 WR, an above average QB, and better playcalling, we would definitely challenge for the playoffs. the D looks great.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Why this ob with Kolb he did not look any better then the QB’s here in the first week and that is with a better team then the Browns
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Im not Ob with Kolb, it’s just that delomme isn’t going to be here after this year, and I highly doubt McCoy is going to be any kind of answer next year.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 19, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Kolb will not see the field again this year.Vick will be the QB there and the Kolb trial should be over the man is not going to be good and I do not want to see us pinning the hope of this team on another back up QB
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
The best RB on the field today was Peyton Hillis— for either team. The problem isn’t the RB personnel.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
Uh – what? True we may have the best red neck good ole boy RB in the NFL, but both Thomas Jones and Jamal Charles are superior to Peyton. Our RBs are below average as well.
Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"
I feel like if Hillis could get some consistent PT, he would be far better than what we’ve seen. He gets jacked after a good run, and instead of feeding off that energy, we pull him and watch Harrison miss a hole and gain 1.5 yards.
There is absolutely no way to tell that Harrison “missed a hole” based on the TV camera angle. Unless you are getting awesome replays from the end zone of every play that was a boring 2 yard gain by Harrison or you were at the game, you cannot possibly know this.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
< Insert my usual rant about lousy television game coverage and how much I’d like industrial grade footage of every game from every angle and the ability to legally craft ‘fan edits’ for distribution from same >
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 20, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Gotta give a shout out to kwoog here as well.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Sep 20, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
H/T to those who came before me, certainly. It’s one of those things that just annoys me personally more and more profoundly the deeper I get into the Xs and Os….
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 20, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I still wonder why they don’t offer this in some manner. I think last night I saw some kind of replay where they darkened everything on the screen, switched to an endzone camera and sort of shined a light on the players. The technology is obviously there and I have no doubt people would pay for even if came with some kind of copyright protection software embedded in it. My only guess is . . . well i don’t really have a guess, I was going to say something about competition, but I would imagine teams have tapes and shots of those angles anyway.
I know #@#$all about specific play terminology but I would love to get that added element of being able to see more than a side view of the line of scrimmage, even if it’s watching a video after the game has concluded.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
On MNF, they seriously took all the camera angles they had and completely spliced together a brand new view solely from different camera angles and it was perfect.
I mean they do that axis crap where they spin the field on an axis and the camera plays out perfect.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 21, 2010 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know which was more amazing: that they spliced together that incredible shot, or that they didn’t just have a camera pointed down the goal line to begin with.
Haha, they actually did, the actual camera from the other side was a lot better, but like Ruf said, they wanted to show off the tech.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 21, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I can understand why they use the standard angles for mainstream casual broadcast, although I don’t see why some added angles would hurt that. Why they don’t charge to make more footage available to the hardcore fans, even after the game, is a little puzzling.
Maybe it’s like the music industry and their resistance to mashups \ remixes \ sampling \ electronic distribution. The ossified industry doesn’t want to rock the boat and jeopardize its moneymaking apparatus as long as things are going well. It’s only when they realize that they’re taking on a lot of water and there aren’t enough lifeboats that they embrace change.
Unlike the music industry, it’s hard to see what external force will motivate change here, though. Ultraportable HD camcorders and wireless fast enough for direct high speed streaming to the Internet?
"Come week twelve, the difference between 0-9 and 2-7 won’t matter one bit to the slopeheads. You’ll still be the same dimwitted, chicken little a--holes you’ve always been; demanding that this person and that person get fired and that the Browns trade away future draft picks for placeholders." --- golanbatrac, 9/20/2010
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 21, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
not to start a whole different argument, but the music industry would have no problem with any of that stuff if people payed for it, like you suggest for football.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 21, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, somewhat. Not to start a whole different discussion, but sample clearance is an incredibly difficult and expensive endeavor, so something like ‘Mutated Christmas’ could never appear in a truly “legal” form. (Bizarre and recommended, BTW.) Also, the industry fought open electronic distribution as hard as it could until it became obvious that it was an unwinnable war. They could easily have licensed Napster instead.
"Come week twelve, the difference between 0-9 and 2-7 won’t matter one bit to the slopeheads. You’ll still be the same dimwitted, chicken little a--holes you’ve always been; demanding that this person and that person get fired and that the Browns trade away future draft picks for placeholders." --- golanbatrac, 9/20/2010
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 21, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
they did license napster, as well as about a dozen other services. people still steal music.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 21, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
they did license napster…
Technically true, but waaaay after it had lost all relevance and the genie was out of the bottle. Me, I steal plenty of music, but a whole lot less since unDRMed Amazon MP3s became common currency.
And with that, we should let this one go, lest we incur a CGV.
"Come week twelve, the difference between 0-9 and 2-7 won’t matter one bit to the slopeheads. You’ll still be the same dimwitted, chicken little a--holes you’ve always been; demanding that this person and that person get fired and that the Browns trade away future draft picks for placeholders." --- golanbatrac, 9/20/2010
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 21, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
people still steal music.
Have you never noticed me and RDC talk about torrenting?
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 21, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously, we need the vertical view on television broadcasts. It’s 2010!
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
MNF does an ok job of showing replays like this. I feel like last night once people realized how well Freeney and Mathis were playing, they showed some replays like this too.
I would easily choose to view games from that angle and/or split my screen with that angle.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Hillis played better today than any other RB on the field. that doesn’t make him better than the other two forever, but it makes him better today.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I never agree with anything you ever say.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 19, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I would go with Jamaal Charles. I was impressed by his blocking, there was one play he picked up one of our DE’s (Schaffering).
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 19, 2010 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I look at this and say: we’re two plays away from beating the number one team in the AFC West. We can definitely turn this ship around. All is not lost.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
I think putting it that way is making it sound beter than it is. Two plays away from beating a team that won what, 4 games last season.
If we get our ST firing, start to alleviate the play calling issues, and catch afew lucky breaks, we can walk into the bye week 2-5. I think we can definitely win at least one of our divisional games. We’re THIS close to being a slightly below average team, and slightly below average teams win at least 4 or 5 games.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
Could the ST play be from people trying to bottle up Cribbs and not as much as Cribbs not playing hard?
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know what it is. But somethings not working. And that needs to be resolved.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
How is it, two teams we expected to beat before the tuff part of schedule hits, are 4-0!?!?
Ahhhhhhhhh!!
(Locker looked horrible Sat vs. Nebraska…where is the hope?)
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Sep 20, 2010 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions
The cleveland.com answer to that is that they each got to play us.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
by woodsmeister on Sep 20, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
It is more that people are terrified of Cribbs and that we don’t take advantage of our field position. If you were the opposing team, would you let Josh or Seneca beat you if you had to choose one? I’d choose Seneca.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Yeah but look at the schedule coming up.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 19, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Another observation: Harrison is useless. He did well last season, but has done nothing through preseason or these 2 games to warrant playing time.
by AG7 on Sep 19, 2010 4:35 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed. Harrison seems to lack explosiveness so far this year. James Davis anybody?
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Sep 19, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
i am all for Davis getting a shot.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Sep 20, 2010 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions
he looked good in the first game at times, but didn’t look good today. He is the kind of guy that lives and dies by the long run (similar to a jamaal charles or a CJ but even more so reliant on big runs)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Thats what you get when you sign up for the Brownies. I mean, I’ve only been old enough to be a fan since the rebirth… I cant remember a time that wasn’t depressing. I look back on Kelly Holcomb and smile when I want to think about the “good” times… how sad is that?
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
by troy145 on Sep 19, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I signed up for it. Storied franchise with real fans. We deserve better.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Sep 19, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
true dat
I know how men in exile feed on dreams of hope. (Aeschylus, Agamemnon)
by portland, oregon on Sep 19, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
You seriously do not understand what he did in 95 and what it lead to do you?
Dude, read some history please. You probably only know what everyone else does. Oh, he just moved a team!
No, he didn’t. He systematically almost ruined the Browns and Cleveland.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 19, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Hm, when I read troy’s post, I thought he was piling on Modell. But I guess he could have been mocking Dorn. Not sure.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
That is what my Dad says every weekend lol
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Browns have been rebuilding since 1995.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Sep 19, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Unless you win the SB its always going to end badly
by HenryDawg on Sep 19, 2010 8:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
browns
FIRE DABOLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
as I did on another thread, try this:
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Ahem, I think you would like this website more Bross
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 19, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Has nothing to do with Daboll. Many of the components of the Browns suck. Especially the WRs
by The Licensed Pessimist on Sep 19, 2010 4:46 PM EDT reply actions
It made me cringe to watch the attempts to hit Robiskie on go routes. You could see the NFL speed he lacks on display on those plays.
He had beat the corner on a couple of those plays and the ball sailed out of bounds. he shouldn’t be running go routes in the first place, because he isn’t a burner, but he has enough speed to play in the NFL.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
He had the corner beat because the corners were playing such that they wanted the passes to be completed deep if at all.
But the throws were out of bounds. Randy Moss in his prime wouldn’t have made most of those catches.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
which isn’t necessarily an indication of speed as much as lack of accuracy/chemistry.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Both are possibilities, but I have yet to see something from Robiskie that indicates to me that he is fast.
I’m not calling him fast, just fast enough. he’s definitely not going to just blow by people, but I’d bet he’s somewhere in the middle of the pack as far as wide receivers go.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Brian Brennan is one of my favorite players of all time. I can’t handle anyone comparing Robiskie to him.
Exactly! You don’t see Brian Robiskie ’s kids in elementary school!
by Chemo on Sep 19, 2010 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
hahaha
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
That was good.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 20, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Talking skill set I know they two are different in color….
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
is Brandon Marshall fast? was Jerry rice fast? is Reggie Wayne fast?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Wow you did not just try to slip in Robiskie with those All-Pro WR did you?
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I did just put him in the same sentence. He is nowhere near as good or as polished as these guys. however, none of these guys had elite speed, however they compensated. Marshall however is pretty big (though robi is 6-3 210), Rice and reggie wayne found ways to make plays and produce without elite speed (namely route running and great hands). you can say the same about raymond berry. throughout history there have been receivers who are slower but compensate (like how someone who is blind adapts to have great hearing)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
If any of our players are to develop super sensitive hearing, I’d expect it to be Joe Haden. Dude has elephant ears.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
by golanbatrac on Sep 19, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
he has obama ears
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
by bross09 on Sep 19, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Mitch Albom ears?
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 19, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the first Browns related thing to make me laugh since half-time today.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 19, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Keebler Elf ears
"My mother always told me: ‘You will see the light of people when they hit adversity. You’ll get a good sense of their character." - Ironic words from LeBron James
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Sep 20, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
To even compair anything Robiskie offers this team to those guys and what they have done is a slap in the face to them.Yes they did/do not have burner speed but they had the skill set to get off the line,run the route and catch the ball.Robiskie offers none of this.He is the WR you line up as a 3rd down WR and run him in behind the LB’s to try and catch them sleeping and get the first down.
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Robi is in his second year in the league. WRs generally take AT LEAST 2 seasons and usually 3 before they really “get it.” Robi has also never had an average QB throwing him the ball, or a competent OC. It’s way too early to be giving up on the guy.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Not giving up on the guy just feel he is or will be better suited for that 3rd WR slot that gets open vs the otehr teams LB or nickle backs
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
this is probably true. Ideally we have a legit number one, momass is our two, and robi is a slot guy.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Alot of sucky receivers in their 2nd year suck in their 3rd year as well or even get cut.
Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"
and a lot of great receivers suck their second year.
I’m not saying Robi will get better, I’m saying it isn’t fair to assume he won’t.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
It is not a direct comparison. you really aren’t reading. I NEVER say robiskie will and can be as good as these guys. In fact, I don’t think he can. However, they are players who have survived with a skills set that isn’t elite.
get off the line,run the route and catch the ball
and robiskie can do none of these? This is pretty much robiskie’s game, though it is nowhere near as good as these guys. when robiskie has made plays, its because he gets open with route running and getting off the line quickly.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Made plays? I must have missed that last year and the first two games this year…
Robiskie has not been able to get off the line and that is one of his big issues right now.Once and maybe once the light clicks he could be a 50 catch type of guy but right now not going to happen.I hope it happens think he could really do good for us.
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
when he makes plays, which isn’t that often, its because he is able to get off the line quickly.
I never said he was making tons of plays. What I WAS saying was that when he did (last season, this preseason, this season) he was getting off the line quickly…he is just not doing that consistently enough.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
What plays has he made? I keep hearing of these plays but I have yet to see them… 7 catchs in a season does not mean he makes plays.Hell Royal had more then that last year and we all know that he does not make plays
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
you keep talking about ‘these plays’ that robiskie made and forget that I am somewhat agreeing with you. He needs that burst off the line and the few times I have seen him make a catch, it is because of that burst. he doesn’t get a good burst with any consistency to be effective however.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Still think he is best as a 3rd slot type of guy.That way he works off the other sides 3rd or 4th best DB.He will never be good at getting off the line vs a elite DB or even the teams 2nd DB.
Robo will never be great at any one think that is why I said he will be like a Brennan type of WR
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
when he makes plays, which isn’t that often, its because he is able to get off the line quickly.
Name these plays. It’s Robo, it shouldn’t take you long.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 19, 2010 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Our WR’s are pitiful. Their relative lack of athleticism allows opposing defenses to blitz with more abandon as our guys can easily be covered in man coverage. Who’s the best college wideout this year (who we should be targeting with the #3 pick in 2011)?
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Sep 19, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Why not what else do we have to look forward to?
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Jeez. If I run a Browns blog someday, I’d instantly ban anyone talking about the draft in September.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
I was being sarcastic. I don’t want to talk about the draft now. It was more of a, “wow are we really going to talk about drafting now?”
Luck, hands down. At this point.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Locker looks to be regressing.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I have only been able to watch him a few times. When I have seen him, he just looks like a fast dude with solid size with a rocket arm. He doesn’t look like a franchise QB yet.
Scouts drool over that kind of guy.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I have heard him compared a couple times to jake plummer. i think that is what he will be. mobile QB with a strong arm but only an average starting QB, unless in the right system (he flourished under shanahan and thats about it)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
I think Plummer just didn’t like the game that much. I don’t know about Locker in that regard, but he could have had a baseball career if he wanted, right? That might say something.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
good point about plummer and its possible the same could be said about locker.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
I believe Major Wright is a football player. I think Chad Jones was considering playing baseball.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Major Harris anybody? Hell of a QB back in WVU old school days
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
I faintly remember that bastard throwing a td from his backside on us. But I don’t think that it really happened because i figure he would be down. Maybe the play was blown dead and he completed the pass anyway. Didn’t he rap too?
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
Ha! That was a different Major Harris that rapped. The one I’m referring to went on to play one year with the Raiders then a few years in the CFL and Minor Leagues. Never really panned out professionally for him.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
I remember your Major Harris as well, I just couldn’t remember if they were the same guy.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
WR early will not matter if you do not have a QB to get him the ball.QB should be are top pick
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
It also depends on who is drafting in front of us and will we get a chance to draft the QB we want.
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem is that Robi lacks the speed to do what he is asked to do, and that he’s asked to do things that are out of his skill set.
He should be asked to be Joe Jurevicious-mini, not Mike Wallace.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Minivicious. I like it, now only if we can do it!
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I have no idea why Daboll thinks he is coaching for Al Davis.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
No, he’s not even coaching for Davis.
Davis just wants to win, baby.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Bingo. It is a utter ignorance of what we have in personnel. It is a stubbornness to a system— compounded by the fact that it isn’t clear what that system even is. (Pluto called it a stew of New England’s spread, Holmgren’s west coast, and the Wildcat- though it is insulting to each of these systems to associate them with Daboll).
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
This. He seems confused about how to use what we have. Our 4 wins last year seemed to be because he was confused with so many guys suddenly out. He was forced to run the football with Harrison… which is what we should have been doing the whole time. Daboll has got to go. no game plan, no idea how to play with a lead, no clue how to utilize our talent. We need someone who has a good game plan because we don’t have amazing talent.
and for the love of god can we put vickers in more
by the_fox_and_the_browns on Sep 19, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
At this point in the season, where do you guys rank WR in our “needs” list? We need help at a lot of places, but anywhere more than at WR?
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
How do you think we resolve that? Trade? FA? Draft? I think that this years QB draft class is shaping up to be very, very solid. I wouldn’t mind seeing us take a QB/RB combo in the first two rounds.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
His intangibles are terrible, so I’ve heard. He also throws a lot of WTF passes right after a pass most NFL QBs cant make. But I’d take him for sure. I also like Ponder, though he hasn’t looked as hot this season.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
I haven’t seen him play a lot – just this weekend’s game. He definitely has an ‘NFL arm’. Not sure about the rest of his game.
I watched him play a few games last year and I felt like he had too many holes in his game to be worthy of the praise he got. Haven’t seen anymore than yesterday’s game though from this year. He’s definitely got all the tools needed to be very successful in the bigs.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
yep. Sounds like DA a bit. that is who I have heard him sometimes compared to. There are just so many things I don’t like about Mallett, I would have serious reservations against taking him high.
I like ponder too, but he is nothing more than a healthy tony pick with a slightly stronger arm. they are very similar and neither one will be a star QB.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Still mad we did not get a better one in this past draft
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Bradford was gone. Tebow and Clausen were the only QBs taken before McCoy. No thank you on both.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
Still thin LeFlour (sp) would have been a better project then McCoy but that is just my opion
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
LeFevour was already cut by the Bears. I liked Skelton more than McCoy, but really, who knows…
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
Can we get a Kyle Orton or a Jon Kitna (from a few years ago) type- Average QB, later in career. I guess something like Dellhomme, but a bit earlier in their decline.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
McNabb?
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
I would take him in a heart beat. I feel he is one of the most underrated quarterbacks of this generation.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 19, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t agree with this years QB class. Outside of luck, I don’t see this as being any better than last year.
There is no one last year who has the athleticism of locker or Pryor and no one who has the arm strength or height of mallett. However, none of these guys are nearly as polished of passers as a Bradford or a Clausen. both of those guys have the ability to be at least decent right away. If a team drafts a Locker and decides to start him from day 1, you will see QB play like you did from josh freeman last year (But maybe even worse).
There are just as many WRs IMO with star potential.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
z
Wow, I bet that Lions Eagles game was fun to watch. McCoy and Best both went off.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
I was watching it at a bar along with all of the games. It was hard to keep track, but Best looks awesome.
He looked stellar in preseason too. Whats Kevin Smith’s contract look like?
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
I like how most of the preview articles this week pointed out that Wallace would bring another dimension with his mobility. He had a couple of nice escapes, but not exactly a major weapon.
I feel like Wallace is less of a viability as well. Outside of one stupid pass which was HUGE, I dont feel like he’s going to have as many multiple-INT games as Delhomme. Lower ceiling, higher floor.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
really? I think Wallace was terrible today.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Aside from the INT, he played as I expected him to play. Made some nice plays, missed a couple more. Like I said, he’s less likely to win a game with his arm than Delhomme, but he’s also much less likely to lose it.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
This is the problem, though, and a problem with our offense in general:
You can get by while still making stupid mistakes like that if they are one play out of 40 and you are making sweet plays like the one to Cribbs several other times throughout the day.
In the first half we looked like a team that was going to take some risks and be OK when a few things went horribly wrong because we’d make enough plays to overcome those mistakes. But as soon as we do something stupid, we get really tight, overly cautious, and we look scared of making mistakes instead of excited about making plays—this is both from a playcalling and an on-field decision-making perspective.
So in effect, we are getting the risk of “high risk high reward” but the reward of “low risk, low reward”. It would be like quitting a poker game after you took a big hit instead of giving yourself a chance to make that money back.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Sep 20, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Interesting take, rufio. I like the perspective of risk management, and it does seem to explain aspects of our groundhog – sees – its – shadow game plans.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 20, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Chansi Stuckey was just pathetic on that pass. Almost every other pro receiver, who is not a doormat, would have been able to adjust to the pass, break it up, or at least tackle the interceptor in his tracks.
wrong. that was a bad decision by Wallace and a great play by flowers. Stuckey was in position to make the catch but flowers made a great play and got it.
Also think about it in the form of physics. Stuckey is backing up slowly to get in position to make the catch. His momentum is taking him towards the sideline and a bit upfield (from the line of scrimmage). Flowers comes in and makes the interception in stride. Flowers is already almost at top speed and running towards the end zone. At this point, stuckey has to adjust his momentum and then catch up to flowers. by the time stuckey stops, flowers is ten yards downfield.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Wallace double clutched like he was waiting for stuckey to do something, like the pass was to go up the field to his right, Stuckey looked like the pass was supposed to be on his left side. I doubt either of us know where the pass was actually supposed to go, I just know that from what I saw, a better receiver would have had a better chance to break up the pass or try to make a play on it.
I’m just reporting what I saw based on the camera angle and 30 years of watching (and some playing) football
Maybe a more talented receiver, like a vincent jackson, has a better opportunity to play the ball. however, the way the ball was thrown added with the way flowers, the CB played the ball, it would be hard for even some of the most talented receivers to stop the TD.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
we’d all better take cover, apparently the sky is falling.
by Dawg Nuts on Sep 20, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
so why are you arguing that a more talented guy would make the play if the point is moot? doesn’t that make everything you are saying moot?
granted, your point is also moot b/c its just wrong…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
He had some horrible throws. Besides throwing a wtf interception, he missed receivers long, he had passes hit the ground and he took a step back one too many times.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Sep 19, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t know who was it that said Browns have played not to lose since Martyball. I became a fan in 2001 and I’d be thrilled if the Browns managed to get the organizational culture and talent the team had through the 80s. There’d be fewer Sundays like today, I’m sure.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Sep 19, 2010 4:52 PM EDT reply actions
I really wanted them to bring Marty back after they fired Crennel. He was available.
by HenryDawg on Sep 19, 2010 5:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I would have liked him to come back.But he said on his radio show he had no intrest in a HC job now and not sure if he ever will.
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
meh…there is a reason he keeps getting fired after building playoff teams…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
At least he has the nack of building teams…
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
how much do his teams do?
and also, in this day in age, a lot more of the ‘team building’ is done by the GM unless its team building as in teamwork exercises. Coaches in the NFL now have a lot less control over player management and I don’t think holmgren/heckert want a Coach/GM (and I don’t think lerner does either).
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
So how much has teams done here after he was gone? SD- Still can not win the big one, Was- Still cant make the playoffs, Browns- well we see that 1st hand.
I still feel we have the curse of Marty from the fall out with him and Modell.
Proof is there yes he never won the big game.But he has always built good teams and has the nack to get the best out of the players he has.The point you made is still there yes he can build winners but nothing else and that was what I commented on.
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
you can’t include the browns in the “what have teams done since marty left” argument. not an accurate comparison.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Why not what did the teams of the 90’s do when he left?
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
SD hired Norv Turner. If they hired anyone else, they would have made at least one super bowl with that team. Norv turner is an even worse version of shottenheimer. can put together solid regular seasons but implodes in the playoffs.
If they hired Tomlin, Phillips, or Wisenhunt, i am convinced they may have won a SB (or all 3 would have at least made one).
Washington? really? he was there one freakin’ year.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
I’ll give you Tomlin and Wisenhunt, but Phillips? really?
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Definitely a better coach IMO than norv turner. Maybe he wouldn’t win a SB with that team, but that team was close a couple times and I feel phillips could have gotten them possibly at least to the game (though i wouldn’t bet on him winning)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
he couldn’t get dallas there, who was/is just as good imo.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
3 is a reach see how they had to get past NE in that teams prime.I would give you 1 if that.Forgot he was in KC as well.No matter the man won 200 games and 8 div chapionships in 21 season. With KC and Cleveland he had his best W/L after taking over when these teams needed to be rebuilt and he did the job just could not win the big game
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
well…2 of them have made Super bowls since 2007 and IMO, those San Diego teams had more talent by a considerable margin than the Cardinals (and similarly as talented as pittsburgh)
so he is the interim head coach to coach when a team is rebuilding but you have to get rid of when a team becomes competative? I don’t see the use in that really.
Like I said, how much of rebuilding these days is really in the hands of coaches and how much is the GM?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
I like Marty just because of what I seen in him.I not for the Drive or the fumble he might have won 2 super bowls as well.
Sometimes you have to find the guy to get you there and then the guy to finish it off.Tampa comes to mind on this fact.
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions
…but tampa bay may have still won a SB with Dungy…they just decided to get rid of him and the system was already in place and they went out and got an already established coach who was excellent. That situation is not the norm of what would happen in this theoretical scenario.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
But the point is the same.Tampa had to get another HC to ge the job done.But the teams Marty has left are no were near as good with out him.
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
the point isn’t. name me another situation where the same thing that happened in tampa bay happened (or at least the new coach having at least as much if not more success than the previous one). Tampa bay is a statistical anomaly you keep touting about. How about I go get terminal cancer…people survive that and I am willing to count on that statistical anomaly (your logic put into another scenario)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
you keep saying tha Marty was not good because he did not win the big one.But he was good at using the talent he had around him.Keep trying but a win % of 61 in the NFL just shows that he was good at winning.Just sometime luck is needed in games and in the playoffs he had no luck.
As for you anomaly I can name off 3 teams off the top of my head that the HC changed and they went to or won the super bowl. Oak went to the super bowl after changing there HC, Tampa and Ind by the way got Dungy who said he could not win the big one.
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
ok. there was something weird about 2002. I can’t recall that ever happening before but that time it happened with both teams.
Good point about indy. Forgot about them and caldwell. That season isn’t an anomaly, but Manning is. the guy just is an anomaly in general (though your point is still valid about indy).
However, 3 instead of 1 makes it statistically more significant, but still not significant (should I want to get terminal cancer if the chances of living are raised from 5% to 7?)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
how bout pitt?
that’s 4 in the last 10 years or so for teams that made the super bowl with a new coach. Not sure what the original point was, but I think you are off on this part.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 19, 2010 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. This “Marty can’t win in the playoffs” thing is ridiculous. Marty didn’t make Byner fumble, and he didn’t let Elway march down the field.
but its not just in cleveland…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
But he still won.The games that got them knock out of the play off’s had alot of the “What if’s” you like to use
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions
there are no what ifs in life but results. you can say however many ‘what ifs’ about marty you want and they may all lead to him going to a SB but the simple fact is he didn’t have success in the playoffs. you probably know the cliche, overused (but accurate) expression about excuses, right?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
But hold on you used what if with SD would win 3 super bowls if Marty or Nov was not the HC so your whole argument is moot?
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
bad joke alert
It might not be moot, but since we’re on the Internet it’s definitely mute.
I’ll be here all week. Weak even.
2010 it’s a new Brown!
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
However, I am not trying to prove that SD would win a SB with a different coach. I was more arguing that having norv turner and his suckitude directly held them back and they were coming pretty close to a SB at times.
You used hypotheticals to directly prove a point, whereas I didn’t. I didn’t have to include it to make my point because its pretty clear there were probably better options to get a coach that year.
i named 3 coaches with arguably more success than Norv in similar or worse situations (only arguably because Phillips is arguable, the rest really aren’t) and them and norv became head coaches in the same offseason. this is a less an argument of hypotheticals of if they would win a SB (which i basically just used to enhance my point instead of make it for me) but the fact that they have had more success.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
“If they hired Tomlin, Phillips, or Wisenhunt, i am convinced they may have won a SB (or all 3 would have at least made one).”
So that is not Hypothetical?
Sounds the same to me as “If the drive did not happen the Browns would have won 1 Super Bowl”
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 20, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
wow…you just don’t read. I admit i used a hypothetical situation. However I didn’t use it as key evidence to point out my opinion.
I used it as complementary evidence to enhance my argument. take away my hypothetical and I still have a legitimate argument that Tomlin and Wisenhunt have had success in similarly as good of situations. Take away your hypothetical, and you have no argument.
the point isn’t an out of context hypothetical, but how it is used in context and in context, I was less reliant on hypotheticals, whatever you want to say about it…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
the point isn’t an out of context hypothetical, but how it is used in context and in context, I was less reliant on hypotheticals, whatever you want to say about it…
Bross, this may be your quintessential paragraph here.
"Come week twelve, the difference between 0-9 and 2-7 won’t matter one bit to the slopeheads. You’ll still be the same dimwitted, chicken little a--holes you’ve always been; demanding that this person and that person get fired and that the Browns trade away future draft picks for placeholders." --- golanbatrac, 9/20/2010
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 20, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
But would they have won in SD?
No one knows so that is still a what if and you did base your whole argument off the “If” SD had hired so and so they would have won.
No matter Mart was a Good HC that just could not get the moon and stars to line up.
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 20, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s not the point. We’re discussing whether Marty is a good head coach, and would be a good head coach for the Cleveland Browns. No, he has not had success in the postseason, but since we are debating his merits as a coach, the reason for those failures is of paramount importance. I don’t think some innate character flaw made Marty get beat by John Elway, Tom Brady and Peyton Manning.
He’s a great coach that has run into greater players. Most teams would be lucky to have him.
and he didn’t let Elway march down the field.
Well, someone decided to only rush three on that drive.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
by golanbatrac on Sep 19, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
He was essentially 2 plays from taking the Browns to the SB twice. Seems better then what we’ve had.
I know he said he isn’t interested in coaching, but seriously, do you believe everything pro sports people say on the radio?
There’s some tressel in all of them.
I tend to believe that a guy who says that he’s retired, and then retires, is, in fact, retired.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
by golanbatrac on Sep 20, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Unlike, say, Brett Favre.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
by woodsmeister on Sep 20, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Does anyone here have enough common sense to see that the play calling is not the issue. The problem is that these guys cannot play loose with a fuck like mangini as a leader. Does anyone here understand the importance of a strong leader? Does anyone here recognize that mangini is not a leader in any sense?
by HenryDawg on Sep 19, 2010 5:01 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I don’t think anyone is saying its the only issue. But Good god its so so bad. And I think its tough to play loose with play calling that is confused and frightened. Add that to a lack of some talent that can’t make the most out of those plays.
by the_fox_and_the_browns on Sep 19, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
You can’t be serious. Look at how we play in the first half. Then look at the second. The reason we lost IS playcalling. Daboll takes his foot off the gas, and prays the defense will hold our 3 point leads. It is honestly embarrassing to watch him. His playcalling is bland and incredibly predictable.
I normally wouldn’t resort to name calling, but you sir, are an idiot.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
I know its difficult for Burger King’s EOM to understand concepts of management but please try to understand that when people don’t play to their ability, we have to look to the management for that underachievement.
play to their ability
I think this is the key. Ability. Some of our players might be playing to their ability and that would have little to do with Mangini and a lot to do with the plays they are being asked to execute.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
Just thought of something, tell me if it makes sense.
The reason we looked so good in the preseason is because everybody is running basic stuff and game planning and adjustments are at a minimum. Because of this, the fact that we have about equal talent to other teams shows through. Once the chess match of regular season games begins daboll is exposed as the bad play caller that he is.
The success of the preseason tells me that talent is not necessarily a problem, but the utilization of that talent is.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it makes some sense, but I think one thing that might be missing is that, teams often don’t fully utilize their top level talent in the preseason.
I think that would mean that we have similar basic talent as most teams (maybe a lack of depth in certain areas) but we don’t have the top level talent in certain positions to separate us into the ranks of better teams.
In other words we have the talent to compete for parts of games. However,our lack of professional playcalling combined with our lack of top level talent in certain areas creates situations where mistakes turn into losses against lower level teams and blow outs against top teams. Basically to make up for these deficiencies we need all world performances see the end of last season.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
Makes perfect sense to me. Daboll seems to have a hard time adjusting, which is key in the NFL.
I also think people are overreacting to these losses right now because these are supposed to be “bad” teams that we are losing to. If anyone could correctly predict 75% of NFL results, they’d be filthy rich and probably famous.
We don’t have a lot of an idea of how good Tampa or KC are, and we’ve lost 2 games by a combined 5 points. I am glad we at least look competitive.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
you’re last sentence is where I stand at the moment.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 20, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
He seems to have not just trouble adjusting, but trouble understanding the need to adjust. It’s as if he says, “It worked in the first half, so it should work in the second half,” totally ignoring the likelihood that the opposing D is going to make adjustments based on what they’ve seen so far.
It’s as if he is banking on making his final strategic move in the elusive third half.
our guys failed to execute plays, and the plays they were called upon to execute were horrible in the first place. that is the fault of daboll setting them up to fail and the players failing. it has nothing to do with mangini’s coaching style or attitude. not to mention, you have no idea what mangini is like in the locker room or what the players think of him.
i will only question mangini, and holmgren for that matter, if things are allowed to continue on this way week after week. our OC is a weak link and must be discarded. mangini and holmgren are the ones who must do that.
Analyze the specific adjustments, or lack thereof,and what KC was doing compared to what the browns attempted to do. Stop with the vague ’it’s the lack of a strong leader’ crap. You’d see far more issues of that manifest themselves off the playing field before you’d see it on it if that were truly the case. Besides, Mangini’s issues were tied into being perceived as a dictator—too strong of a leader, not weak.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 19, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
actually I was a youth leader in boy scouts, led patrols, made it all the way up to assistant senior patrol leader. I see more leadership in him than Crennel, Butch Davis, Chris Palmer, and even Marty Shottenheimer who you above mentioned as someone you would like. Now he is not a great leader IMO, but if you put the right pieces in place and call the right plays, he is definitely a good enough leader to win.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
I think you hit the nail on the head when you say “good enough.” There are only 32 people in the world that can be NFL head coaches at a given time, surely we can find someone better then good enough?
who is out there? Gruden is the only guy that is available that I feel can lead a team. I think cowher is done, but he can do it too. There are not a lot of guys available who are better leaders IMO than mangini. as a pure leader and locker room decider, I like mangini over John Fox (who is supposedly gonna be gone). If not mangini? who else? Anyone competent is either retired (like Gruden or Cowher) or hired.
there are coaches out there who have had good teams, but I don’t think can ever win a Super bowl. Brad Childress is one. Mangini is a guy that, if you put him in a situation as good as the one childress is in, I believe can win a SB. There are maybe only about 16-18 coaches in the NFL that I believe that about. Granted, Mangini is near the bottom of them, but that still puts him in the top half, which gives us a fighting shot if we execute.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
to be honest, at this point if Mangini gets canned after an 0-5 start or something I’d let Ryan get his interim shot. Of course that brings up the question just who the hell is going to be OC…but I’d like to see him get a chance.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 20, 2010 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
so its far from reality that there aren’t guys who are SB coaches out there?
Its obvious that you have a hatred for mangini, but he has shown that when you give him competent players, he can coach them up pretty well.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
All that and you barely graduated high school? Bross sir, I am impressed. You posses the intangibles. You are most certainly a . . .
Just messing with you by the way.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
I figured. the barely graduated HS is a joke with some serious (mostly, I had to take Gym as a senior and just didn’t show up and barely passed…damn senioritis).
I spent most of my time working on my intangibles such as community service, leadership, and the occasional sport (‘intangibles’ when applying for college)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
bross has lots of ‘intangibles’.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
by golanbatrac on Sep 19, 2010 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s a winner?
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe…that sounds like a good name for a movie…or maybe the title of my autobiography (if i ever do anything worth writing about)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
With all of those intangibles, how could you not?
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
by golanbatrac on Sep 19, 2010 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not sure what the Boy Scouts has to do with football but I’m pretty sure there is no merit badge for Head Coach Talent Scout.
by browndawgbacker on Sep 20, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Chris…Final score was 16-14, not 17-14 as you have listed in the opening paragraph.
We’ve lost 2 games by a total of 5 points. Amazing.
KC was 4-12 last year.
TB was 3-13 last year.
Either those teams have improved or we have gotten worse. By the looks of it, we have gotten worse and we will get the first pick in the 2011 NFL draft come next April!
I predict a 3-13 season.
by BROWNS GREATEST SEASONS 1996 1997 1998 on Sep 19, 2010 5:05 PM EDT reply actions
I think we’ve bother improved, but those teams have improved more than we have. At least personnel wise. Our coaching seems to have regressed.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
Regressed? I don’t really think playcalling has regressed… The playcalling would have had to be good/ better than now in order for it to regress, but it wasn’t. It sucked ass all of last year until the last 4 games of the season, and now it’s still sucking ass.
What is sad all of see this so why does Daboll still have a job?
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
The last 4 games of last year are 25% of the season. I’d say that that was a progression from the first 12 games, which we have since regressed from. If we were calling plays like we did in the last four games of 2009, we’re a 2-0 team.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
exactly. The last 4 games are just the period where we won 4 in a row. However, I think the offensive playcalling showed improvement even before then. After being shut out by Baltimore, we came out the next week and had a good offensive showing. yes, the lions sucked, and we lost, but the offensive playcalling still showed drastic improvement. I would say the last 7 games we showed market improvement (though we did regress a bit against cincy, but they were on fire then).
So, we had a good 30-40% of a season where at the end, the playcalling was good.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
The Bills are still 8 times more terrible then we are.
by discoinferno083 on Sep 19, 2010 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
So we were expecting to get an above average NFL starting QB for a 7th round draft choice? I think Seneca showed his colors today, not terrible, somewhat multifunctional, 2nd string QB.
Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"
no, we were expecting to get a competent backup, which is what Seneca is, more or less.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry to hijack the thread, but can anyone quickly lay out the # of draft picks we have next year by round? Pretty sure it’s more than 7, but can’t recall how they break down.
0-2
Here we go again with mounting loses even tho its only the 2nd game of the season. When will the Browns decided to get ri d of the MAGGOT Mangini and the idiot OC Dumbell Daboll
I may be in the minority, but I think Mangini knows what is going on. I think we can definately win with him, but Daboll is just killing us.
by AG7 on Sep 19, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I agree Mangini loyalty to Daboll is what will get him run out of town.Daboll should be gone after this week.
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
ha. I posted that on another thread and got cursed out by Henry Dawg.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
I don’t know, I kind of like the MAGGOT. Never heard that one before. It definitely needs all caps though for full effect. Super hero material.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
Because around here its an overused cliche, and especially when the other guy was just venting after another bad loss it was so unnecessary.
You people may have water in your veins or you didn’t actually watch these last two games so it wasn’t as painful, or maybe you just don’t really care or understand how frustrating it is to be a Browns fan, but let people vent once in awhile.
You may vent at cleveland.com. This board is for discussing football.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
by golanbatrac on Sep 20, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
This.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Well, yes, to a point, but aren’t game threads expected to be a bit ephemeral and of the moment?
Not to defend HD really, but to vent is human, to forgive Joe Thomasesque.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 20, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
this is also a recap thread, not a game thread.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 20, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
ha. I posted that on another thread and got cursed out by Henry Dawg.
Emphasis mine, quote from HD.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 20, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
true…but this was also a comment several hours after the game I believe. I can understand venting during a game, but this was just slinging crap all around several hours later. people are allowed to do it, but even for venting, it felt cleveland.com-esque
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Not to defend HD really, but to vent is human, toforgivepancake Joe Thomasesque.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
maybe you just don’t really care or understand how frustrating it is to be a Browns fan
don’t question my fanhood, or anybody’s on here, considering you don’t know us.
but let people vent once in awhile
don’t tell us how to run our blog; and i say our blog because i feel like we as fans and contributors make this site what it is. it’s a great site because we call people out for baseless, mindless rants.
by Dawg Nuts on Sep 20, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
there is still no reason to curse me out the way you did. what you said i undefensible in any situation.
there is ranting about a bad loss and bieng frustrated, and then there is making your first post here as an all caps comment along the line of KILL MANGINI (which it wasn’t was, but it was just as ridiculous…though at least ‘kill manini’ randomly might be funny)
I understand what it means to be a browns fan. THAT is why I am upset but not surprised we blow it, therefore less off my rocker than some.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
by bross09 on Sep 20, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
there is still no reason to curse me out the way you did. what you said i undefensible in any situation.
I agree 100%.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 20, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Now you’re questioning my fanhood?
Prediction: this will not end well.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Hide the kids and pack your breakables.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 20, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Definitely a disappointment. I think I’m getting on the Fire Daboll bandwagon. The team shows some decent flashes of ability but the lack of consistency reveals …
Holy mackerel – what a catch by Moss!
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Sep 19, 2010 5:29 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Anyway, Daboll has not shown anything to make me believe he is some mastermind or genius. What are we losing by letting him go?
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Sep 19, 2010 5:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
att yds avg
1st half
run- 19, 60, 3.15
pass 20, 182, 9.1
att yds avg
2nd half
run— 7, 13, 1.85
pass 11, 44, 4
Those numbers suggest to me that we should have passed more in the first half.
They also suggest that we flat out sucked in the second half.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
If we can complete really long passes at a high enough rate, it’s worth it.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
True, but I don’t think either of us really believe we can complete long passes at that sort of rate.
Thanks for putting those up, I was going to last night but got tired. And we were absolutely brutal in the second half.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
OF COURSE Braylon makes the tough catch . . .
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Sep 19, 2010 5:35 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah… What a douche. He makes me sick.
by shep615 on Sep 19, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
and now he will drop the next 5 easy pass’s
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
First post-game player tweet:
…frustrated
About 9 minutes ago by Chris Gocong Cleveland Browns – Linebacker
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
If I were on that defense I’d be pissed.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
As the D should be.The 2 games have been lost by a total of 5 points.So the D IMO has a right to be frustrated with the lack of a O in the 2nd half of games is just down right wrong with the way the D has played so far.
Going to be a long year. These weeks ahead are not going to be pretty.
by Western Reserve on Sep 19, 2010 5:43 PM EDT reply actions
I think we will be in a lot of close games thanks to our D. At least looking forward to that and watching our young up-and-coming players improve. Despite the loss, I liked watching Bernard, Haden and Ward out there.
Just like everyone else I’m sure, I’m quickly falling in love with TJ Ward. that kid seems to be around the ball a lot, but unlike some of our guys in the past, he’s there in time to make the play instead of just pile on. he very well could be the best thing to come out of this draft for us.
and Benard is just flat out disruptive. he’s a big part of the reason this defense is playing so well.
the defense deserves better than what the offense is giving them.
Agree 100%. Haden is a throwback – very fundamentally sound and tackles very well. TJ Ward looks even better. Benard getting better every snap.
Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"
The way Haden hit Arenas in coverage, it seemed like there might have been a little pay back for last years SEC championship game.
by OSUMoneyball on Sep 19, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I can see that, sure. I just think we’ll win very few of those close games. Our offense is so horribly anemic. We die a slow death out there.
by Western Reserve on Sep 19, 2010 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
If we can keep things close, at least it will be a sign that we are competitive and we’ll have chances to win games. Either of these games are 1 JC return away from being victories.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
True. Although keeping things close looks to get increasingly difficult in the weeks ahead.
by Western Reserve on Sep 20, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Yesterday could have quite possibly been one missed field goal. Or one non boneheaded interception. We just aren’t at a place where we can afford these kind of mistakes and still win games.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
See, this is the line of thinking the coaches are taking, only after we make the really big mistake.
Like deciding to never play the lotto again after you buy 100 tickets for the mega millions and then lose. If anything, we should take the opposite approach: stop buying lotto tickets after we hit the big one.
I am ok with playing conservative, but we can’t go to that strategy only immediately after making the big mistake. I am also ok with us playing aggressive, as doing so has led to 1. us scoring a lot, and 2. us having a lead.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I’m not saying go conservative with our playcalling decisions i’m saying stop making bonehead mistakes we can’t afford to make.
I don’t like playing scared to lose, so i have no problem with the coaches putting the players in position to make plays even high risk plays occasionally. I just think at some point the players have to be held accountable for their decisions while the ball is in play and all the blame can’t fall back on the playcalling. Daboll should surely get blame for predictable uninspired playcalling, but i would hope that NFL players would be able to execute NFL plays.
In other words, i’m upset with the missed field goal and the bad interception more so than the playcalling afterwards. I don’t think we are a good enough team where we can make those kind of mistakes in execution and still maintain a strong chance at victory.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
Players are going to make mistakes. Coaches could try to limit the amount of mistakes by calling lower risk, lower reward plays. Coaches could probably limit the severity of those mistakes to some extent, say, throwing an INT deep rather than in the flat for a pick-6.
I just don’t see us playing 14 error-free games. There are going to be bonehead plays here and there. It is frustrating to watch, for sure. But we have to set ourselves up to overcome them when they happen, and I think that means either trying to keep our foot on the gas in the second half (after bonehead plays) or calling it more conservative in the beginning of the games.
You may be right, and we might just have too little talent to make any mistakes at all and win. But if that’s the case, the coaching decisions are not in line with what our team needs to do to win.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Have the Steelers scored an offensive touchdown?
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
wow, I didn’t realize that game went to overtime. I saw Tenn get the onside kick, but then left the bar. Ha.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
yikes, I missed that. I didn’t see the highlights and just assumed 15 points was 5 FG’s. Oh well. Still, they haven’t played well at all on offense, but their defense looked scary.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
Yeah, the fact that they’ve gotten two wins over pretty good teams despite having no quarterback is scary.
Yeah, the Steelers are really good again with their defense healthy — there shouldn’t be any doubt about that. And to think that just a few weeks ago some people here were mocking Peter King for picking them to win the Super Bowl and saying it was “unrealistic.” Of course they’re a long way from doing that, but they’re definately going to be a contender once Ben gets back.
But I still hate them and want them to lose every game.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 20, 2010 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
But I still hate them and want them to lose every game.
Except when they play the Ravens. They may tie the Ravens.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
by woodsmeister on Sep 20, 2010 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s when we root for the asteroid.
by Western Reserve on Sep 20, 2010 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I rec this comment.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Excellent! This should be the sites banner during that week.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 20, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
they beat a vastly overrated cincinnati team and beat a team that had 7 turnovers. When they can score an offensive touchdown every week I’ll admit I was wrong.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 21, 2010 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions
So their defense doesn’t get credit for forcing those turnovers? And their offense is playing right now with their 4th string QB; they’re going to look much better when Ben is back.
Again, I’m not saying they’re going to win the Super Bowl or even win a playoff game. But to say they have almost no chance winning the Super Bowl is absurd. They just won it two years ago and most of those players, along with the coaching staff (or at least the really important ones), are still on the team. They have a really good team, and most people thought if they could go 2-2 without Ben then they’d have a good chance to make the playoffs. Now they’re guarenteed to do that and have a really good chance at 3-1.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 21, 2010 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ll give the defense credit for some of them, but I can’t give them credit for all 7. that would be ridiculous. I’m more inclined to give them credit for the 3 picks than the 4 fumbles. fumbles should not happen, ever. 4 of them is outrageous and truly a gift.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 21, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Dixon left the game with a knee injury, right?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
They were one QB away from Randle El…
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I have no statistical proof, but I still feel better about the Browns this year then I did last year at this point. The QB play to me seems more competent than last year (yet still not great). The defense is off to a much better start than last year.
With all of the talk about he Wallace/Cribbs wildcat package, I think we will see more of it in the coming weeks, much like Miami waited until they played New England to reveal theirs.
Well, I have statistical proof, I believe.
At this point last season, we hadn’t scored an offensive touchdown. This year, I believe we have scored 2 already.
I’m feeling optimistic about this year already…
we’ve scored three I think, Hillis run, Cribbs catch, and MoMass catch.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
4 then, 2 Hillis TD’s and the two catches.
by OSUMoneyball on Sep 19, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I would say we were tanking the second halves of these games to make sure we get the #1 pick over these other bad teams…
…but who wants Jake Locker now?
Locker played terrible vs. Nebraska. I would prefer Andrew Luck . . .
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Sep 19, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
so far…
Mallett has to do more than put up gaudy stats in 3 games against Sh*tty teams to be worth a high pick IMO.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
and you’re the one who loves Luck? Mallett’s stats from last year blow Luck out of the water. It’s not even close. So far this year I’d be hard pressed not to give the advantage to Mallett statistically again, and who has Luck played? What has Andrew Luck done that Ryan Mallett hasn’t?
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I like luck because he makes good decisions, has a great pocket presence, and has shown consistency in the ability to read the field. Malletts game reminds me of DA on steroids. He is better than DA, but you still get those times where he makes a great play one play and then you are left scratching your head the next play. Mallett is in a very QB friendly offense (look at the stats such bums as Chris Redman and Dave Ragone put up in Brohms offense) and has great tools. However, I still very wary on his intangibles. Out of the QBs in this draft, I like the intangibles and the ‘QB brain’ of luck the best.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Good point and I like Luck as well. I don’t quite understand the infatuation people have with Jake Locker. He reminds me of Ryan Leaf Part Deux. I would rather have Luck or Mallett if we were to draft a QB.
And I only bring any of this up because i have zero faith in Colt McCoy as an NFL qb. Regardless of intangibles or decision making…you have to be able to throw it more than 20 yds downfield.
I disagree with most of this, especially because I don’t trust your judgement of such subjective things such as pocket presence or intangibles. I mean, what do you know about his intangibles?
This sounds an awful lot like regurgitated internet scouting reports, which, forgive me if this seems harsh, I put almost no stock in.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
fine. don’t trust my judgement. However, I saw a couple plays when mallett was playing well last week that, although he did well, the decision making behind it made me scratch my head. When I see him throw, it doesn’t seem like he has much touch at all on his passes. i also think his footwork isn’t great from what I have payed attention to in this area. He at times seems a little off balance because of his footwork. Plus, he is immobile…
I think he has all the tools and he is putting up some good numbers, he is just not all the way there yet IMO (though if he keeps improving like he has so far in the first 3 games, he may make it)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Brohm was playing for the 49ers, Bucs and Broncos when Redman was the QB. He didn’t become a coach for UofL until 2003, by which time Ragone was already gone. Also he was only the QB coach.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
You don’t know anything about Mallet’s intangibles so stop pretending that you do. That’s just something people say when they don’t have anything better to say.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 20, 2010 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
actually, I was unimpressed with things about him such as pocket presence and decision making. how he is a leader, and other intangibles, I don’t have as much knowledge about.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Then don’t comment about it if you don’t know.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 20, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
You do know you are talking to Bross right?
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 21, 2010 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo
I got intangibles like MC Hammer.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Have you ever tried to tackle a statue? Very hard…
Snarky comment aside, I’d take a 6’6 statue over delhomme, wallace, or mccoy right now. At least a statue isn’t athletic enough to throw a terrible interception while falling down.
Isn’t DA about 6’6 and pretty statuesque?
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Sep 19, 2010 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe DA is on roids and this could be the reason he has 0 touch on the ball?
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
…has a great arm…had some consistency issues dating back to college…sometimes makes headscratching decisions…etc.
Mallett I don’t think will ever be DA because he is already better than DA was in college and has more physical skills.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
he’s already miles better than DA ever was. seriously, Mallett’s 2009 is infinitely better than DA’s one college season.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions
he’s already miles better than DA ever was
yep. He is already much better than DA ever was. doesn’t mean he can’t suffer from the same deficiencies, but just in a lesser degree.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
If the Browns do want to draft a QB round 1 then they might as well put Colt out there to see what he can do with the first stringers.
by OSUMoneyball on Sep 19, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
yup. Aromashadu apparently had a falling out this week with Martz over dropped passes. Too bad the all mighty media didnt pick up this story before I started the dude.
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Sep 19, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
A couple of thoughts. First, our personnel is pretty bad, and because of that it’s hard to evaluate the coaching staff. I think some people have been extremely generous to our skill position players; I love one half of our offensive line, but our QBs are terrible, our RBs are mediocre, and our number one receiver is a guy that would be better suited as an interesting project for a good team.
With the guys that we have, I’m not entirely comfortable just saying “Daboll sucks,” because he’s calling pretty conventional plays and our team is completely incapable of executing them. However, I think it’s safe to say that the plays we’re calling don’t fit our players at all, and if your personnel is bad you at least have to try something clever to make something happen. I don’t think Daboll has called a play yet that you could describe as “inspired,” so while I’m not sure Daboll flat-out sucks, I’m pretty certain he isn’t anything special. Might as well make a change.
I’m not sure, though, why everyone is letting Mangini off the hook, other than simple coach-switching fatigue. Mangini is responsible for Daboll. He’s his boss! If Daboll is as terrible as everybody here thinks he is, Mangini certainly deserves a lot of blame.
I agree with your personnel assesment to a degree, although I still have a modicum of hope that our QB situation will not be terrible. Brady Quinn and DA are terrible in my book, and no matter how poorly Seneca and Jake played they are not even close to that level just yet.
However, that being said, Daboll needs to go, and of course Mangini is ultimately responsible for his play calling.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 19, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree more with you than Chemo. The problem that will start to dog Daboll is the offense of the second half. We now have 2 first downs in 4th quarters, no 2nd half TDs, and have blown first half leads. These are the same players that put up some numbers and production in the first half. Sort of implies that the opposing DC is adjusting better than Daboll, and puts his coaching abilities in a bad light.
Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"
Sort of implies that the opposing DC is adjusting better than Daboll,
…an especially disturbing thought considering that DC just happened to be Romeo Crennel.. .
That’s like playing checkers and losing to the downs syndrome kid who smells his finger and pisses in the water fountain during recess.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 20, 2010 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Since when does downs syndrome give kids awesome pissing ability?
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Crennel has proven himself to be a very good defensive coordinator.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 20, 2010 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
This is just so frustrating. You know why I was predicting 7-9? Because I figured it wasn’t completely stupid to think we could start of 2-0 this year! This is ridiculous. Jerome Harrison isn’t doing crap. Can you imagine our running game without Hillis? Wallace wasn’t terrible. The INT was, but I think this was about the best you could expect a backup to do. Robiskie’s disappointing me, MoMass is still doing okay, and at least Cribbs had that nice TD. I can’t help but wonder if we could’ve won with Delhomme. Not that Delhomme is that much better, but I don’t think he would’ve made such a bonehead DA-like throw.
It was encouraging to see our run defense get some stops on third and short. Also good to see some QB pressure. Our coverage was kind of up and down, pretty iffy at times.
Bottom line though is that until we get a capable QB we are still going to have these problems. I can’t believe we’re already talking about the draft on here! I’m not being accusatory, but my point is is that it sucks! We’re 2 games into the season and here we are talking about Locker, Luck, the WR prospects.
We looked competent in the preseason. We looked capable. Now we just look like the same old Browns who can’t hold a lead and find ways to lose.
It could be worse. We could be Buffalo. Now that is bad.
by emily522 on Sep 19, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I don’t think he would’ve made such a bonehead DA-like throw
I hope Jake wouldn’t have done that for the SECOND week in a row! Buy he was out, so it’s not an issue. the issue is we lost 2 games we “should” have won. so now, can we win some games that we “should” lose?! .. and not at the end when they are meaningless…beat a playoff contender and that will make a statement. also, the special teams need to step up.
by JDawg in Cbus on Sep 19, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I preferred watching Seneca play today than sitting through another DA-fest.
This team isn’t bad. The coaching staff isn’t bad. The game did look fixed due to the questionable calls by the refs.
They were fun to watch today, and were in the ball game until the 2 minute warning.
Yeah, everyone wants to win every week, but sheesh, this is much better than watching the chaos in Crennel’s headcoaching tenure.
I can’t believe we’re already talking about the draft on here! I’m not being accusatory, but my point is is that it sucks!
Agree 100%. Sad, sad, sad.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 19, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
The season’s over before I get to see a single game.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
Maybe you’ll catch our too-late-to-matter-but-faintly-hope-producing late season surge.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 19, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
props to yoy guys on 2 fronts
1. There is very little excuse-making in the comments. After we beat the chargers last week there were almost no fans who would own up to the fact they lost. It was just excuse after excuse as to why the chiefs’ victory was a fluke or didn’t count or whatever.
2. As fans you have put up with as much horrible play as the chiefs over the last few years, yet your site has lots of activity, info, and honest assessments. Over at AP we pride ourselves on quality of content and discussion and I see a lot of the same here. Way to be good fans through thick and thin.
I feel bad for you guys because as a chiefs fan i have had to deal w a lot of the same maddening deficiencies on my team over the years (players and coaching). Good luck the rest of the season and hopefully lots of progress will be made. I’m gonna keep pinching myself and we’ll see how many more wins the chiefs are able to squeak out this year. It sure didn’t look like we were a much better team, just fortunate to make a couple more plays at the right times.
Good luck w the rest of the season!
Make sure you give The Hoff some love:
Here's to you Steve Hoffman
good luck to you as well, if a team besides the browns has to win games, I’d prefer it be a team that has a long history of not winning.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
The quality teams have two things in common – good ownership and a consistent F.O., we have had neither. We probably can’t change owners, but we have a shot at consistent management if Homgren and co. stick around for a few years, we should feel free to rid ourselves of the disaster that Mangini and Daboll present. Make Ryan the HC for the rest of the year and evaluate at the end of the year.
No.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 19, 2010 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
This is why I live at home and commute.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 19, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Houston scored 17 unanswered points to force overtime, including Andre Johnson winning an amazing jump ball on fourth down to tie the game. Both Schaub and Mcnabb have well over 400 yards passing. Washington has had a field goal blocked and missed the potential game-winner in overtime. It’s nuts.
he got me 35 in the DBN league and it would have been 38 without the pick. AP got me 24. I guess all that complaining I did about last week payed off.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
on a related note, isn’t Chris undefeated in FF regular season for over a year or something? I need 5 points between Dallas Clark and Colston to beat him.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Not undefeated, I’ve just had the best regular season record the past two years. I need Clark to score 3 points or less for you; I’m not too hopeful.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 19, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
in my yahoo league, he got me 89. Literally saved my heinie.
by discoinferno083 on Sep 19, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone watching the Manning Bowl?
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
I’ve got it on a pretty bad stream.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
you have all night to do homework.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope. I have to wake up at 6:15 tomorrow to go tutor at 8 in the morning. I’m an education major. I need to get to sleep by 10:30 or I’ll be dead for the week.
And with that said, I’m outta here. Hopefully Steve Smith catches a TD this week.
hopefully eli has like 400 yards and 5 TDs…maybe then I can survive this terrible fantasy (and real) week.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
No. I have a twenty-two point lead and Reggie Wayne. My opponent this week (rufio) has Eli and Frank Gore left.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
well…i am rooting for Eli because I desperately need points. I am 28 points behind and my opponent has had his guys play already and I still have manning and my D.
He got 2 huge weeks though that killed me (cribbs and San Diego D…who would have predicted such a fantasy day from cribbs?)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
While i would rather Eli do nothing, I’m up by 70 pts with Alex Smith and Vernon Davis left against Eli and Dallas Clark (its a 2 QB/12 team league, I would not voluntarily use Alex Smith). I had a nice week from Jahvid Best :)
I had a nice week from my RBs. I got 30 points combined from my top 2 RBs which is nice…but got less than a point from Hines ward (and my opponent had rodgers, SD D and cribbs)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
I think you got me after Eli’s terrible day. Good lord they looked bad. That game is an example of why pass rusher > CB of equal talent.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
YOU’RE AN EDUCATION MAJOR TOOOOOOOOOOO!?
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 19, 2010 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
=D
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 19, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Good man.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 20, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t do elementary education if you want to find a job when you graduate. The market is satured with them.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 20, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Everyone can teach 2+2 and maps.
Just like everyone can teach social studies… I hate the jackasses saturated in my field.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve read that teaching jobs are really supposed to open up in the next 4 years. I don’t think I’ll be switching to elementary though.
Meh, they say a lot. Most of time, it’s crap though.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
As someone that has been waiting for things to open up for the last five years, I can attest to this.
by Chief WaDrew on Sep 20, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Brandon Jacobs should be suspended for throwing his helmet into the stands.
I don’t care if it was an accident, control your emotions.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 19, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
didn’t Kyle Turley (sp?) get suspended for throwing his helmet?
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
He threw another player’s.
From what I know right now, this is what went down.
1. Jacobs was pissed off because he is horrible.
2. Jacobs comes off the field, Coughlin yells at him, probably something along the lines of “Sweet Jesus you suck”.
3. Jacobs throws his helmet “at the bench”
4. Helmet airmails the bench and goes ROWS deep into the crowd.
5. Jacobs then yells/argument with the fans that had the helmet thrown at.
I don’t know about you all, but it would take a mis-fire of epic proportions to miss a bench and have it reach rows deep into the stands.
If Jacobs did this on purpose, and I’m not saying he did, he should be suspended for multiple games if not the season.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 20, 2010 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I could see a season long suspension for this. That’s incredibly dangerous. it’s not like at a baseball game or even a hockey game where people know something could come flying into the stands.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 20, 2010 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
A helmet to the head when you’re wearing a helmet f-ing hurts!
I’d rather not be hit by one not wearing one.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
There was this guy who went to my high school named Sean McHugh, I’m pretty sure he’s the steeler’s fullback now. Anyway, I was a ball boy for a game once and after he scored on about a 70 yard run where he must have run over every player on the opposing team, he took his helmet off and head-butted a teammate who was still wearing his, he was that psyched up.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 20, 2010 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know why. But the O lineman I played with always liked to grab each others facemask and headbutt each other. I wasn’t into that stupid crap and needless to say it hurt like hell when they did it to me, no matter how much adrenaline I had going.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I knew a few kids who would do that. then every once in a while their facemasks would get stuck together, which I thought was hilarious.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 20, 2010 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
This actually happened a lot to me in game. I wouldn’t get my facemask stuck to the D lineman but they would get their facemask stuck in my shoulder flap. It thought it was awesome because it was legal holding. I’d just drag the f-er around till he popped off haha.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I was one of those guys. Yes, your bell does ring a bit, but it hyped me up.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 20, 2010 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
God I hated you people. I tried to avoid having my head hit by the other team, much less my own team.
I was all about contact. A headhunter. A hit isn’t a hit unless snot bubbles occurred. Those thing burn like hell.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 20, 2010 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I just read that Andrea Kramer reported the helmet was 10 rows up.
Look how far 10 rows are up into the stands.
I’m not buying this was an accident.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 20, 2010 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
They actually sent security up to recover the helmet.
Um, sorry bitch, this is mine now. Don’t cry like a little baby next time.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
If Brandon Jacobs sucks as bad at throwing helmets as he does running the football, I could see how it could’ve been an accident…
by shep615 on Sep 20, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Anderson threw a couple of picks in a blow out loss proving, once again, that there’s always someone who has it worse.
Stuckey watch: 4/30
lest we forget.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I apologize, but could someone please explain to me why we just don’t start McCoy? I don’t blame the QB’s but could he be any worse? And he would gain experience as well. I just have a hard time with a season off to this start and not letting the rookie get the reps so we can see what he has got. Let the kid learn by playing
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
The organization can’t do such a thing because it says, in Week 3, that we give up already on this season.
McCoy was drafted “for the future” and it was stated he would not play this season. To turn around on that statement so quickly would say to a lot of fans “don’t bother showing up, the rest of this season is exhibition”. If nothing else, it’s a $ thing.
I suppose so…I just really don’t think it could be any worse with the kid learning on the fly with a true playing environment. I am of the mind that if this team doesn’t turn it around soon, this season is over.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
before anyone says it, I’m not saying McCoy will be better. I would just like for him to learn while playing this year if we continue this way for the whole season.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
Also to that point…learning on the fly would be a not so good idea with the Browns, Bengals, Falcons and Steelers coming up. Those are all easily top 10 defenses.
thats the best kind.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 20, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Losing sucks. Blowing leads and losing really sucks.
Are we see improvement + regression? Or are we really just seeing only suck?
To my nonprofessional eye it seems we have improved the team in many ways but it also seems we have replaced some previous shortcomings with new shortcomings.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
I am just really, really disappointed yet again, with our play for these first two games. It is really starting to get old with the excitement of an off season and then disappointment of the actual season. Not sure if we are going forward or backward?
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
I would have to say that we are overall improving.
1. The defense is giving up less than 10 points – can’t blame them for the offensive turnovers.
2. The offense is moving the ball fairly well in the first two quarters without having to rely strictly on the run. Unfortunately, the NFL is not a first-half-only league.
The Chiefs QB and RB(s) fooled me at least three times today.
A replay on the scoreboard showed that he fooled the camera man at least once also.
Play action is good if you got a decent RB/QB to pull it off…….
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Until we have at least one difference maker/play maker on each side of the ball, the Browns will not be a .500 team much less a winning team.
Here is some reasons for optimism -
1. Both teams we have lost to have beaten other teams. Maybe they are not as bad as anticipated. KC beat a quality team, and the Bucs won on the road.
2. The defense has been good enough to be 2-0.
3. Don´t these turnover issues tend to run in cycles?
Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"
the turnovers are still bothering me.
i feel our team was better disciplined last year.
hard to put in words, but we’re just….careless now.
by discoinferno083 on Sep 19, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
As much as it pains me to say this, the Steelers earned both wins.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
by golanbatrac on Sep 19, 2010 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I had this game on another TV while watching the Browns.
Vince Young looked horrible. The Steelers just destroyed him. His early INT in Pittsburgh’s zone was a backbreaker. CJ had a 85 yard TD called back for holding that also changed the game early.
That being said, I cannot fathom a Browns team that could gut out a win using their third-string QB and facing the most dangerous offensive weapon in the NFL.
I should probably never say this, but a huge reason I hate the Steelers is because I am jealous of that franchise. Doesn’t matter the coach, doesn’t matter the QB/Rapist, they just continue to win games when they shouldn’t. Kills me to type that.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 19, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
But how much of it is luck, and how much of it is just being better than others at what they do?
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 19, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup. They’re good all over the field. It’s not luck, it’s years and years of good drafting.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 20, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Kansas City C/ATT YDS AVG TD INT RATING
Cassel 16/28 176 6.3 0 2 46.1
Cleveland C/ATT YDS AVG TD INT RATING
Wallace 16/31 229 7.4 1 1 73.2
Rushing Leaders
Kansas City CAR YDS AVG TD LG
Jones 22 83 3.8 0 11
Charles 11 49 4.5 0 20
Cleveland CAR YDS AVG TD LG
Hillis 8 35 4.4 1 12
Harrison 16 33 2.1 0 8
We also missed a field goal.
Daboll has made some mistakes and some bone headed calls, but we are also not executing. Were these first two games that we should have won by more than a touchdown? No, I think they were games we should have had a chance to win, which we did, but they have also proven to be games that we have been unable to finish. I think some of that needs to fall on lack of execution as well.
One week after setting a franchise record with 160 yards on punt returns, the Chiefs were held to 6 on 4 returns
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
by Villeslgr on Sep 19, 2010 10:04 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Against Tampa Bay our last 12 plays after the bucs TD were passes 8 of which were either incomplete or intercepted.
J. Freeman 17/28 182 6.5 2 1 88.7
Team 17/28 169 6.0 2 1
J. Delhomme 20/37 227 6.1 1 2 59.2
J. Cribbs 1/1 9 9.0 0 0 104.2
Team 21/38 236 6.2 1 2
After scoring their touchdown Kansas City ran the ball 9 times and were sacked once.
Tampa Bay Rushing
CAR YDS AVG TD LG
C. Williams 22 75 3.4 0 20
J. Freeman 2 34 17.0 0 33
E. Graham 6 10 1.7 0 6
Team 30 119 4.0 0 33
Cleveland Rushing
CAR YDS AVG TD LG
J. Harrison 9 52 5.8 0 39
P. Hillis 9 41 4.6 1 12
J. Cribbs 3 11 3.7 0 6
J. Delhomme 1 1 1.0 0 1
B. Watson 1 -1 -1.0 0 0
Team 23 104 4.5 1 39
In the second half prior to TB’s TD, we threw 6 passes to 12 runs. I think we probably have issues with our playcalling but I don’t believe the pass/run balance is as out of wack as it appears. I haven’t looked at the breakdown for today’s game yet so i’m not saying this is right but looking at our first game as far as the amount of passing plays to running plays during our second half collapse we were obviously not all that passwacky.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
I don’t believe the pass/run balance is as out of wack as it appears.
I don’t either, but not for the same reasons. Hopefully more coming soon if grad school lets me breathe.
Speaking of, I’m out the door.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I would really like to see your analysis on it. I have no expertise so all i could really post where the simple numbers.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
It isn’t just the raw number of passes vs. runs. It is the flow to the play calls and the types of passes called and types of runs called. Especially in the second halves.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
I agree. My level of tiredness and my level of expertise pretty much limited me to a simple analysis of passing v running. I do however feel that after they took the lead that the subsequent playcalling skews the raw numbers on both sides.
Hopefully rufio can find the time to give us another Pulitzer worthy post.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
For those who were able to watch the game today (I was stuck at home and couldn’t find a feed), any opinions on what’s going wrong with the running game? Is the Offensive Line getting dominated at the LOS? They were able to open massive holes for Harrison at the end of last year. I’m guessing that wasn’t the case today?
Linebackers are playing really close to the LOS and corners are daring the go routes to be completed which means they are in position to help in run support. It’s why Watson was able to get that huge gain and also why we managed to score on a huge play to Cribbs, but the Chiefs didn’t think we could execute those plays consistently and they were correct.
My solution is run more 2 TE sets with both Moore and Watson running routes over the middle of the field behind the linebackers. The taller targets will make the linebackers need to sit back in coverage a bit more.
by Roger Dorn on Sep 19, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
you and or Rufio should probably give Brian Daboll a call.
or a swift kick to the nuts.
by discoinferno083 on Sep 19, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know much about X and O’s, I would rely more on rufio’s analysis. I am curious if he would agree.
I would mostly agree with this, though I was watching at a bar yesterday and was trying to enjoy the game more than analyze the chess match too closely. There just didn’t look like there were many holes in the running game (though you can never tell for sure due to the TV camera angle), and we don’t do a good enough job keeping defenses honest through the air.
I thought we’d see more big sets and less shotgun, with passes to Watson, Moore, Hillis, and Harrison to keep defenses honest. If we run no huddle as a means of trying to deal with the disparity in talent between our offense and other defenses, we could keep that personnel + Robi or Cribbs +Mass in the game and run a lot of different looks. So, a big, Single Back, 2TE formation one down and then no-huddle to shotgun, Moore out wide or in the slot, maybe Harrison or Hillis as well. I haven’t seen us really try to take advantage of this yet.
If the other team wants to stack the line and really try to stop the run, one way to deal with that is to just stack the line even more. Based purely on simple math, they should neeed to have 8 in the box to stop the run when we are in 2RB, 1TE, 9 in the box when we are 2RB 2 TE (which should make any DC at least mildly nervous). It gets a lot more complicated than that in real games.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I would love that. first of all, I like what a no huddle offense can do, especially in the passing game. second of all, putting guys like hillis and Moore in the slot in shotgun situations can maybe force some mismatches. Imagine if a team puts a nickel corner on watson or Moore…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
I honestly fear that this concept is over Brian Daboll’s head.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
He’s gotta know. I just don’t know why we aren’t trying SOMETHING, especially in the 4th quarters when what we’ve done hasn’t been working for a while.
I’d love to see the Cyclone or some no huddle or some “eff you, we are running the ball”, anything once our offense has hit that wall.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
If you don’t think linemen have to know an offense you are sorely mistakin’.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I really am starting to like that young man.
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 19, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought he played well. Hopefully he is still not 100% there in terms of the mental aspects of the game, and he can improve from his current level. At his current level, he is doing pretty good for us.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Yes, some of us hate draft talk, but this #1 QB and WR has me thinking.
Just a shot in the dark, but we should take Vick next year and draft a #1 WR next year. If the D stays as good, and how great our o-line is, we’d be great.
Well, I don’t know if Daboll could handle that actually.
Kill them. Kill them all.
Vick will never be a Brown.
Granted, he didn’t rape anyone but a convicted criminal, is still a convicted criminal.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 19, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
He did his time.
I think what he did was reprehensible, but I would take him as our QB. He looked great today (against the Lions).
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 19, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Vick paid his dues, and maybe then some. Only dude I know that did hard time due to mistreatment of animals. Not that I agree with what he did – just sayin.
I do think we need to worry about talent acquisition, take some chances to get talent, and stop worrying about getting a collection of special teamer quality guys.
Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"
What do you call the deal to move up and take Hardesty if not taking a chance to get talent?
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
by golanbatrac on Sep 19, 2010 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
A good start. Now do the same for QB, WR etc
Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"
We traded up to get Quinn a few years ago. We took two wideouts in the second round last year.
If you don’t think we (or any other team in the league) isn’t taking chances to get talent, I don’t know what to tell you.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
by golanbatrac on Sep 19, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
We traded up to get Quinn a few years ago. We took two wideouts in the second round last year.
If you don’t think we (or any other team in the league) isn’t taking chances to get talent, I don’t know what to tell you.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
by golanbatrac on Sep 19, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
We traded up to get Quinn a few years ago. We took two wideouts in the second round last year.
If you don’t think we (or any other team in the league) isn’t taking chances to get talent, I don’t know what to tell you.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 19, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I do think that the best way to get a good quarterback in the NFL is to steal one that’s already in the league. Schaub, Favre, Hasslebeck, Mcnabb, Cutler — it’s a lot easier to identify talent that’s already playing/practicing with NFL players than to pluck one out of college. The problem is that not a lot of those players are available. Still, I would have loved to see us take a chance on Mcnabb last year or Vick this year.
And no, signing Trent Dilfer and Jake Delhomme doesn’t count as acquiring good QBs that are already in the league.
Vick will never be a Brown.
From your lips to Holmgren’s ears.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 19, 2010 10:40 PM EDT reply actions
I would trade Jake Delhomme for him, and throw in the 6th rounder from Quinn, and let them have any WRs that they would be interested in.
Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"
I realize this issue goes beyond our newly reemphasized DBN charter, but I’ll never be able to root for Vick and so I fervently hope he’ll never land here.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 19, 2010 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Vick would never be one of my favorite players, but he did his (much deserved) time and should now have a chance to turn over a new leaf. If he was a Brown, I would root for him to do well.
That’s a very reasonable point of view, but this is an area where I doubt my ability to be reasonable. I don’t wish him ill; I just hope he’s never our QB, as I’ll always be prone to regard him with disgust.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 20, 2010 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions
while I disagree with you I can’t exactly fault you for feeling that way.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 20, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Is anyone else just wincing at the ‘Fan Confidence Poll’ on the home page now?
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 19, 2010 10:43 PM EDT reply actions
1. Brian Daboll isn’t the only problem, but I have seen enough of this garbage to believe that he is a good playcaller. The fact that Vickers was MIA is frustrating.
2. I think the addition of Hillis has taken away from Vickers playing time. Hillis is a nice short yardage back with good hands, but he sure as hell isn’t the best blocking FB in the NFL.
3. I think I mentioned it in the preseason, but does Harrison look a little bulkier this season? Maybe he put on a little muscle this offseason to be “the guy” here, but he seems a step slow. Again, I don’t have anything to prove this other than my mind and memory.
4. Marcus Benard may be the best front 7 defender we have on this roster, and I think the world of Rogers (and the development of Pick-6-Tuba Rubin). He is amazing in getting to the QB.
5. Our starting WR’s have 5 catches combined in two games. Good Lord.
6. The Browns have thrown the ball 69 times. The Tom Brady led New England Patriots have thrown it 71. That seem disproportionate to anyone else?
7. One play out of the flash package today? With our second string QB? Wouldn’t that be something to lean on?
8. Sheldon Brown’s INT was a great play. Nice to see him stick with a WR on a 9 route, since speed was supposedly his weak spot.
9. As for the Wallace or Delhomme question, I don’t really care. Neither one of them should be trusted to throw often and when they do, ball security should be job #1.
Some interesting points. Maybe we need to go primarily Hillis and Vickers?
Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"
That would work for me.
Running without Vickers just makes little sense to me.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 19, 2010 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
We have who I would consider the top blocking FB in the league, and we don’t use him. Daboll has been listening to Holmgren’s guys too much.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t blame that stupidity on Holmgren. He used a FB in GB. William Henderson was the starting FB for him in GB and he was not only used as a blocker but also frequently as a receiver. He also had Rathman in SF so it’s not like he hates the position. Forget who he had in front of Alexander in Seattle but they used a FB there too.
we have a top blocking full back, not a receiving one. The WCO throws lots of passes to the fullback. I know the WCO can be altered to be a running scheme, but in it’s original form it’s a passing offense.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 20, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
in the last 2 games, how many throws have actually been thrown to the QB (I also don’t know how much of a WCO we are running now)? I know we have thrown a bit to hillis, but i thought it was when he was lined up at RB mostly.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
you’re restating my point. In a WCO if you don’t have a pass catching FB you don’t use one.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 20, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
a) I don’t know if we are running a WCO per se and how much elements of a WCO we have run so far.
b) We have had FBs in, but its been a greater # of hillis than we were expecting. how much of the time are we passing with hillis as FB compared to vickers at FB (this is gonna be a terribly small sample size if we can find it).
I agree with your basic point, but I have know knowledge if this is what the browns are actually doing.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
in the last 2 games, how many throws have actually been thrown to the QB
Throwing to the QB is an interesting idea. Brady Quinn had a pretty sweet catch once. Nobody expects Jake “Pistons” Delhomme running long!
Brady Quinn had a pretty sweet catch once.
I remember that catch. It might have been the highlight of BQ’s Browns career.
"Come week twelve, the difference between 0-9 and 2-7 won’t matter one bit to the slopeheads. You’ll still be the same dimwitted, chicken little a--holes you’ve always been; demanding that this person and that person get fired and that the Browns trade away future draft picks for placeholders." --- golanbatrac, 9/20/2010
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 20, 2010 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
More importantly, if Holmgren was the OC/head coach, he would play to our strengths. His offenses didn’t look the same from San Fran to Green Bay to Seattle. They were altered for a faster QB and really good WRs in San Fran to a huge arm QB in GB to a star RB and average-y QB in Seattle.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
I have a feeling Holmgren wants to really maintain a separation of job responsibilities and doesn’t want to start giving coaching advice from the president’s seat….so I’d be very surprised if Daboll is getting any influence from holmgren or his ‘guys’ about the fullback situation.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 20, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Holmgren noted more than once this offseason that Daboll was talking to one of his former OCs almost every day. That sounds like influence to me.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 20, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Holmgren noted more than once this offseason that Daboll was talking to one of his former OCs almost every day.
Apparently it didn’t take, though.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 20, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
No, it did.
Pass, pass, pass, run without Vickers, pass, pass, pass.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t understand why everyone thinks Holmgren loves the pass so much.
He isn’t Andy Reid, Holmgren has shown the ability to run the ball just fine.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 20, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Not saying he mandates more passes than runs but the West Coast offense is predicated on the short passing game setting up the run, which is a change of what we did successfully at the end of the season.
Holmgren did this effectively in Green Bay and Seattle and yes he was able to run the ball and had no problem doing because he had QB’s that were a threat to complete passes.
the West Coast offense is predicated on the short passing game setting up the run
I am not so sure about this. I would say that “the West Coast offense is predicated on improving passing efficiency by leaning heavily on shorter passes and horizontal stretches” is more accurate. Walsh is the reason “extended handoff” is a cliché.
But of course, there is no one homogeneous, unchanging WCO.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Right. Holmgren is smart enough to alter his offense to fit the personnel. But when Daboll was learning west coast concepts most of the stuff they were talking about was probably short passes. Daboll is not smart enough to figure out how to work that into a power running offense, so he just passes a lot.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 20, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the issue some might be seeing is that they think Daboll might have heard about passing concepts and couldn’t fit them all in his head with what we had success with last year. So something gets pushed out and we can all pretty much see where that has led to.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
Agreed. I am quickly loving our top 3 corners. Plus I really like Ward. And Adams is in a good role for him. Quickly turning into a top unit.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 19, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
If our defense is going to become all-world, Elam should be the 3rd safety.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
if our D is going to be top third in the league, he should be 3rd safety.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Don’t look now.. but our D is in the top 3rd of the league.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
is it? well, we haven’t played a whole season…plus, I believe Adams started the first game, and going just by the chiefs game, we would be 18th in total defense.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
well, we haven’t played a whole season
Your power of observation is astounding.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 20, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, we’ll see when DVOA and DAVE numbers come out this week. Before this week, they were top 10 in both those metrics. They are tied for 12th currently in points allowed per game- though that might change after tonight and it would be even better if you take away points that the defense had nothing to do with- i.e., the Wallace pick-six. They are 14th in total yards allowed per game, not that I think this means as much, especially after two games (and tonights game could alter this).
So, by any measure they are top half so far, and right around top third.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
It includes that TD. Without looking too hard, all I was able to find was raw numbers. i.e., we are giving up 16.5 points per game.
Furthering my point that we have a top third defense at the moment.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
We should look at “success rates” on the defense. I.e. stop an offense on 3rd/4th down, force FGs instead of TDs inside the redzone, etc.
Does FO look at this?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
yeah. i am not surprised. the D is playing good, but I think those numbers will regress a bit once we face stiffer competition…and like I said, this is 2 games.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
but I have seen enough of this garbage to believe that he is a good playcaller.
Uh, wut?
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 19, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Your next Advotcate should be why Daboll is a good OC
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 19, 2010 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
It would be the shortest article in DBN history.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 19, 2010 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Do it dude. Maybe Holgren will see it.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 19, 2010 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
This would be bad unless he knew it was an overly sarcastic article.
This exact thing has backfired on Bernie before with JaMarcus.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 19, 2010 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Some people are soo smart.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 19, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Devil’s advocate: Why Daboll is a good OC
“Because Bross says so.”
Along those lines?
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 19, 2010 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I would at least try and give a good reason.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 20, 2010 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
“Because Bross says so and he’s never wrong.”
Gold.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
ehh…I don’t think he is good.
i just don’t think he is terrible…
I think I am somewhere in the middle…but thanks for the shoutout.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Ugh, you contradicted yourself.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
The Tom Brady led New England Patriots have thrown it 71.
And I’m guessing that he did that over a greater number of total snaps. 69 attempts from the Browns with all of the three-and-outs does not paint a pretty picture.
Browns 49 rushing attempts
Patriots 43 rushing attempts
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 21, 2010 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Whatever…
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 19, 2010 11:20 PM EDT reply actions
I’m so happy I paid for the Sunday ticket. What a waste of money for me. My chore list is getting smaller every weekend. Guess I get to be like everyone else, wait till next year.
I'm really Cleveland Brown Jr's illegitimate son.
Some of us don’t get to watch the games. Stop crying.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 19, 2010 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m going to be pissed if that garbage time Giants TD costs my fantasy team a win.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
The other guy have Nicks? That would suck.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 19, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
If it makes you feel any better, the Giants are morons for not running the ball right down Indy’s throat.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 19, 2010 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I say we do Rogers straight up for Jacobs.
They obviously do not give a crap about him anymore.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 19, 2010 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t want anyone who throws sh*t on the sidelines.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 19, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
They don’t give a crap about him because he is horrible.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 19, 2010 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh, if he’s pissed with the Giants he’d be really pissed with us.
But he’s far from horrible.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 19, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Giant’s line isn’t as good as they were 3 years ago.
Actually, they’re on the brink of average to below.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s not hurting Bradshaw.
Then again Bradshaw isn’t fat, washed-up and pissed about losing carries.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 20, 2010 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
He’s also fast and small as f*&k.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Seriously, you are 260lbs, plant your foot, get vertical, lower your shoulder, and pick up 5 yards. Don’t try to run horizontally around a bunch of faster, lighter defenders.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Well, thank god you’re not our GM.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
If I had a nickel for every time someone said that around here…
by Western Reserve on Sep 20, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
The Giants ran 13 times and passed 9 times in the first half, and a lot of those passes were on third downs. After that, they were so far behind they had to try to score fast.
That’s the problem with the “you can just run it straight at the Colts” theory — if you don’t score early, Peyton is going to put up points so fast that running won’t be an option.
Even if Manning scores early and quick, the best way to attack the Colts is to run the ball right at them.
Teams often panic when down more than one score. Dangerous part is that soon as they do that, they are in a shoot-out with Peyton Manning. Peyton Manning doesn’t lose shoot-outs.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 20, 2010 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions
With the way those ends were shooting up the field, the Giants should have run draws all night long.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Like I said, they ran a ton in the first half, and they wound up down 24-0. At that point they had no choice.
Ahmad Bradhsaw had two carries in three drives after one quarter. I’m no offensive genius, but that isn’t nearly enough.
From what I saw, the Giants got down 10+ and decided that throwing the ball was the way to go. They couldn’t block Freeney and Mathis, and did absolutely nothing to slow them down (draws, screens, etc.) and Manning was then a sitting duck for I believe two strip sacks.
Colts can beat, you just have to stay very, very patient. Texans did, even after blowing a 13 point lead.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 20, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
If they thought they could stop Freeney from taking those handoffs, they should have run more draws/screens.
Passing every down to get back in the game is extremely hard if the defense knows you are passing every down. You almost need some sort of constraint plays to work; they should gain you yards and keep the D honest when you do pass.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
This is all true. Good points. I’m just bothered by the people that were saying before the game, “The Colts are easy to beat, you just run right at them,” and who are now saying, “The Giants are dumb, if you run the ball on the Colts you win.”
That’s been the book on the Colts for four or five years now, and they still win 13 games every season. .
The best way to beat the Colts is to run the ball right down their throat. If you don’t, you are going into a shoot-out with Manning.
Any team that voluntarily goes into a shoot-out with Manning is stupid. The Giants were stupid Sunday night.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 21, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
The Giants did not voluntarily go into a shootout with Peyton Manning. Manning put up 24 points on them before they could blink. The Giants were utterly dominated, and their play-calling wasn’t going to make any difference at all.
Did we watch the same game?
After the first quarter, it was 7-0 Colts and the Giants starting RB had TWO carries.
Arian Foster had 3 carries on Houston’s first drive.
I’m not saying that this was the sole reason the Colts lost, but it is a huge reason. Peyton Manning can’t score when he is on the sideline.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 21, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I frickin’ knew it.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
by golanbatrac on Sep 21, 2010 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I got beat in a PPR thanks to Pierre Thomas getting 8 catches.
F%$* you Pierre Thomas.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 21, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I was at the game today. I think what sickened me most about the team (and there were many things) was the complete lack of “fire”, “desire”, “drive” or anything resembling enthusiasm. This problem is further exacerbated by the mundane play calling of that troll Daboll. The lack of any kind of creativity takes any possible chance of excitement out of the fans as well as the team. I swear – they looked like they were standing around doing whatever it took to pass the time long enough to lose. Pathetic.
What does that MEAN - TO PLAY US OUT?!!?!?
I think the defense played with plenty of fire.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 19, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Daboll is almost exactly like Howie.
He looks like him and is hyped up to be the best damn thing and when you get the final product, it’s terrible.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 12:10 AM EDT reply actions
Yep.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Should we get a "Fire Daboll" petition going and send it to the FO? We were pissed last year and it continues to this day.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 20, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe stage a stairway/ramp sit out before kick off?
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
Does anyone here have Lerner’s cell number and a dog bone hat?
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 20, 2010 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
This is a little OT, but Clay Matthews is the best defensive player in the NFL right now.
I love watching him play.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 20, 2010 12:35 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I really wish we could’ve kept the Matthews tradition in Cleveland.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Seems to me we drafted a linebacker when he was still on the board – but maybe I’m wrong?
What does that MEAN - TO PLAY US OUT?!!?!?
We took Mack.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
As we should have.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
by golanbatrac on Sep 20, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
you’re right….since drafting Mack is really helping our rush offense….and having one player who could even come close to being a starting OLB is more than adequate
by The Licensed Pessimist on Sep 20, 2010 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Imagine if we had Aaron Rodgers on offense and our D didn’t have to worry about giving up more than 9 points/game in order to win. We might actually be able to turn them loose for sacks.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Exactly! I think our defense has been pretty damn good (points hat towards Rob Ryan), its just the offense that can’t keep up. As said several times on here, we do decent the first half and then hit the wall. I know Mangini is more defense minded, so maybe this would be a good time for the Big Show to share some knowledge with his coaches about how to make changes during half time?
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
It isn’t just making changes at halftime, if this is the same problem as last year (I have not reviewed this year’s tape). It’s the success of the depth of the gameplans.
You need to know what the other team is probably going to do to stop what is working for you. You need to know how to beat that. You need to know how to beat the other things that they might try to do to stop you. You need to know how to beat the thing that they are going to do to stop you once you’ve made the first adjustment. Ad nauseum.
It is hard for me to believe that we don’t know how to counter punch, or that we don’t have it somewhere in the playbook. Mangini practices everything. We just aren’t good at programming those contingencies into the week’s gameplan or we just aren’t good at running them.
My bet is that we try to put every play ever into the playbook and we practice them all. Such a wide breadth of plays could kill us if we never get enough reps with any one given play.
If I were Daboll I would probably try to make smaller, simpler changes to a more limited amount of plays.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Buffalo at Cleveland 12/12 shaping up as AFC losers’ bowl (only 2 AFC teams unable to post a victory yet).
Seriously though. I find it completely stupid the NFL needs to send it’s goons into the stands to retrieve a $300 or less helmet that Jacobs willingly tossed.
The helmet is the fans the minute it fell in his lap and that is some serious complete bullshit, sorry about the language. I mean really? And apparently, the goons were such dicks, they called the cops into the stands as well then ripped the helmet out of an old man’s hands with force.
With a cop there, they stole, harassed and assaulted…
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 12:49 AM EDT reply actions
Players are pretty protective of their helmets (get it?) They’re especially fit to their heads and to a football player there kinda akin to a baseball glove to a MLB player. You gotta get it back.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 20, 2010 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Boo hoo. The dick willingly threw it.
He can get another exactly made. Hell,he wasn’t going to be using it anytime soon.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
If Jacobs loved his helmet, he shouldn’t have chunked it into the stands.
I understand why he wanted it back, but when you act like a child, you should get treated like one.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 20, 2010 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions
He says it slipped and it was an accident it went flying into the stands. Not saying he should be throwing it st all, and I think fans should be able to keep footballs and such, but not helmets.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 20, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Refer to comment about it being 10 rows up and how 10 rows up is.
OF COURSE HE’S GOING TO SAY IT WAS AN ACCIDENT. He doesn’t want to lose a paycheck.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I think its more likely he lost composure and threw it in a rage and it got caught on his finger. And he could have gotten far more than just losing a paycheck. He could have actually been arrested for assault had it been clearly shown to be intentional.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 20, 2010 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I think its more likely he lost composure and threw it in a rage and it got caught on his finger
This is the thinking of a naive fan who assumes everyone is good in the world and all problems are just simple mistakes.
The dude threw the helmet with intent to start something. You cannot throw at a bench and overthrow it 10 rows. It just doesn’t happen.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions
You cannot throw at a bench and overthrow it 10 rows. It just doesn’t happen.
Well, DA might be able to….
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 20, 2010 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
Excellent.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
by golanbatrac on Sep 20, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
BQ or DA could have missed that mark easily. It’s do-able.
by browndawgbacker on Sep 20, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the thinking of a naive fan who assumes everyone is good in the world and all problems are just simple mistakes.
Ok Brad, whatever you say. I must be ‘naive.’
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 20, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Please dont blame the lose on the refs
The fumble was questionable, but there wasnt enough evidence to overturn it. The first down could have gone either way. Still, you guys didnt score all half, what makes you think you would have just drove it down the field with no timeouts and scored. Also, the Chiefs had a bad call go against them that led to your TD. Blame the lose on Dawson and your team, not the refs.
Did you know Eric Berry was asexually produced by Chuck Norris?
Considering how little either team did on offense, the fact that you were gifted 3 pts from the refs – which sorry was obviously not a fumble – makes a huge impact on the game.
The main play I am upset about though is the “roughing the passer” that gave you a key first down late and eliminated any chance we had at good field position.
Even without those horrible calls we still should have won the game. The fumble and roughing call were both pretty bad but not sure about the spot. Was listening to the game so I didn’t see it but Dieken and Donovan both seemed to think that the Chiefs got the first down.
Guess I’ll check it out on NFL replay.
I think he got the first down. The fumble though…
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 20, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
who here was completely blaming the loss on the refs or even partly? please don’t make blind accusations that are just false. yes there were some questionable calls, but no, no one was blaming the game on that.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
that fumble call is the worst call I’ve seen in a football game since 2002. It’s even worse than the call earlier this year that ruined a perfect game for the tigers. At least after that guy saw the replay he admitted he was wrong.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 20, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
There was absolutely enough evidence to overturn the fumble.
I thought there were several bad calls throughout the game that favored both teams, 2-3 more that favored the Chiefs. A few of them were atrocious. Please don’t act like there weren’t flat-out-awful calls.
That said, the Browns can’t control the refs, and we had plenty of opportunities to win that game that were under our control. Good teams capitalize on those opportunities.
Plain and simple: KC capitalized on Sunday, Cleveland did not.
But don’t act like the game was evenly called.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
This. And if Phil Dawson makes the field goal, we win anyway, despite getting thoroughly hosed by the refs.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
by woodsmeister on Sep 20, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah. we had so many opportunities, it was just a clusterf*$&. if dawson makes the field goal we win, with some better play calling, we might have more points (though this is the most speculative), our offense just forgot how to play football, and seneca threw a terrible pick 6.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
There is not one thing wrong with the defense to this point, nor the running backs (although they could hold on to the damn ball) The receivers are average, Josh Cribbs is the talent. There is offensive talent (enough to win) on this team. THE PROBLEMS IS QUARTERBACK GURU MIKE HOLMFATGREN chose three inept players as the teams signal callers. Donovan McNabb could have been had, SO could have Jason Campbell and I swear at this point I dont think Derek Anderson would have been any worse. By the way Holmgren was also wrong with Jim Brown.
Mangini is going to be let go. I like him but it is looking that way as I said with (Ravens, Bengals, Falcons, Steelers, Saints, Patriots, Jets) 0-9 looks quite possible. Oh wait we have a bye at this point I would take Bye over Daboll’s offense and the three boobs at quarterback) When will the chants of COWHER COWHER start?
Ahhh, ya beat me to it. Campbell has already been pulled for Gratkowski. Judging from how the Redskins offense has been playing and his performance so far in Oakland I’m guessing that he’s just not very good. Better than what we have? Possibly. Good enough to have given up draft picks? Not in my opinion.
I would gladly have Campbell and you can have the choice of two of The Browns’ quarterbacks in exchange. Any two on the current roster, Campbell for any two you choose.
Wouldn’t you rather had McNabb as the Quarterback for the next three or four years till the next quality quarterback was drafted?
Hm, awesome young Safety over a not so awesome aging QB who is just going to hold a spot like Delhomme or Wallace.
No.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I would take Delhomme over Campbell. I would take Campbell over Wallace. I would take McNabb over all of them. Where did I say I wouldn’t prefer McNabb?
I’d take Campbell over Delhomme- but it is really close. Agree on everything else here.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
I am pretty low on Campbell as well as Delhomme but I think Campbell is in the DA class of QBs and I consider Delhomme a slight upgrade.
I guess I’m looking at it at this point in their careers. Campbell has higher upside in my mind. Though it is by a small margin.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
You are stooping pretty low to say “Campbell is in the DA class of QBs.” Give him a little credit, he’s not that bad. He always did have to learn a new offense virtually every year.
by Western Reserve on Sep 20, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
He was benched last week by Oakland
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
Oakland is also entirely dysfunctional. Not trying to defend Campbell, I just think DA is on another planet entirely of bad QBs.
by Western Reserve on Sep 20, 2010 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Using Oakland as a barometer of good decision making is faulty.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 21, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Now why would you say something like that?
He likes being punched by his dominatrix that is Tom Cable.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 21, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Is he having a cocktail during the presser?
by Western Reserve on Sep 21, 2010 7:40 AM EDT up reply actions
It sorta works either way.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
by golanbatrac on Sep 20, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s always been a Jason Campbell support group here, and for the life of me, having watched quite a bit of him, I cannot figure out why.
I’m not part of any Campbell support group — I don’t go to meetings or anything.
by Western Reserve on Sep 21, 2010 7:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d probably take Campbell over Delhomme, but only because he’s younger and we might be able to get lucky with him. I don’t think either is/or would really do much for us offensively.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
I wouldn’t have minded Kellen Clemons.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
I probably wouldn’t have either. Really I think it came down to the FO projecting what they felt we needed to improve on and what they felt we could do this season and then assessing how much they wanted to spend (picks, money, etc.) in each area of the team and then making their decisions. Although I wouldn’t call Clemons very young, I still wonder if the FO felt ready to bring in a younger QB and name them the starter knowing the caliber of team that would be surrounding him.
If we brought in Clemons is the FO saying he’s our future? Or are they saying he’s a stopgap? I think it might be easier for the typical fan to accept failure from a old QB such as Delhomme who is obviously not the future than from a young QB like Clemons whose acquisition might be seen as choosing a QB for the future.
Not saying that Clemons can’t be that, but I don’t know if he’s the guy we want to go after with the possibility of him being anointed as such (see Charlie Frye, Kelly Holcomb).
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
It’s moot anyway because McNabb probably would have attempted to sabotage any attempt to trade him here seeing as we aren’t a contender, plus after the whole “LeBron” saga no city has a worse image among athletes, especially black athletes than Cleveland does. Not saying it’s fair but it’s just the way it is. He sure as hell wouldn’t have re-signed here barring a miracle.
Would I trade a one and done year with McNabb where we MAYBE win 7 – 9 games for a 2nd round pick?
Nope.
How did LeBron impact our image amongst black athletes?
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
Yeah I’m missing that.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
I was going to ask this as well, but I didn’t want to stir up a Community Guideline Violation.
"Come week twelve, the difference between 0-9 and 2-7 won’t matter one bit to the slopeheads. You’ll still be the same dimwitted, chicken little a--holes you’ve always been; demanding that this person and that person get fired and that the Browns trade away future draft picks for placeholders." --- golanbatrac, 9/20/2010
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 20, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Though we haven’t had one in awhile. But there is a mod here now, so shhhh….
Just joking BB.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
Ah crap, it’s the heat. Everybody act casual!
"Come week twelve, the difference between 0-9 and 2-7 won’t matter one bit to the slopeheads. You’ll still be the same dimwitted, chicken little a--holes you’ve always been; demanding that this person and that person get fired and that the Browns trade away future draft picks for placeholders." --- golanbatrac, 9/20/2010
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 20, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
What are you talking about man? I don’t even know you. I was just on my way to the store to buy some milk and eggs for my family. You trying to set me up or something?
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
Ha, it works really well with that picture.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 21, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Not only that but why is it “LeBron” in quotes? Does he not really exist? It’s a pretty serious charge, likely lacking any evidence whatsoever, and not worth exploring, but I’ll go out on a limb and say, if the guy would win 9+ games a year, no one would much care which box he checked under ‘race’ on his census form. But I digress.
by Western Reserve on Sep 20, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Actual name: Patsy. Patsy “LeBron” James.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 20, 2010 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHFXG3r_0B8
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Sure. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/patsy
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=patsy
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 20, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
look at the video posted…I screwed up posting the video. I know what a patsy is.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
yup, the video captured it.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 20, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
McNabb as the Quarterback for the next three or four years till the next quality quarterback was drafted?
the problem you fail to address is
a) McNabb is a free agent in 2011 (which, if there isnt’ a lockout and a CBA deal gets done, will be the next year of free agency)
b) Mcnabb will be 34. he knows himself he isn’t invincible. he wants to get a super bowl because if you add one to him, that could make him a HOFer (right now, its questionable whether he is one). With the vanilla playcalling and the lack of legitimate threats, even with mcnabb, I don’t see this team as a serious contender to go deep in the playoffs and thats the kind of team he WILL sign with.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
1. A couple of years worth of McNabb would have cost us TJ Ward plus more picks or a 2011 first rounder. No thank you.
2. Holmfatgren? What are you, seven years old? Grow up.
3. Jason Campbell was benched this week.
4. DA shoulkd have been benched this week.
5. Jim Brown is an asshole. Pissing him off ranks among the best of our offseason moves. Good riddance to the racist old fool.
6. Mangini’s going nowhere.
7. Is 2-7 all that much better than 0-9?
8. If we continue to develop our young players and establish an identity on defense, this year is a win. The win column is the least of our concerns. Entering the offseason with a quality defense, and then being able to address our talent deficiencies in the offseason should be the priority, and the measure of the success of this team.
9. I like boobs.
10. Cowher will never be coach here so long as Holmgren is the GM. Anyone who chants for Cowher is a buffoon.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
by golanbatrac on Sep 20, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I’d like to second number 9.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 20, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
7. Actually 2-7 is huge over 0-9. Ask anyone who ever played organized sports and has any competitive spirit left in their body. Ask anyone on the team, win 2 or get shut out? Stupid.
by browndawgbacker on Sep 20, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
The point
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Your head
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
No one is talking about what 2 wins means to the players. Honestly, who gives a shit? We’re talking about what two wins mean to the less intelligent fans (like championship64 and, apparently, yourself) who are ready to jump out a window because the Browns lost a couple of games. Come week twelve, the difference between 0-9 and 2-7 won’t matter one bit to the slopeheads. You’ll still be the same dimwitted, chicken little assholes you’ve always been; demanding that this person and that person get fired and that the Browns trade away future draft picks for placeholders. Good franchises (and good fans) don’t panic. If the Browns are to ever be a good franchise,they’ll continue to build slowly and purposefully. If you and your ilk are ever to become good fans, you’ll learn a little fucking patience.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
by golanbatrac on Sep 20, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Well said.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 20, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
hmm 1 playoff game in 12 years (they wont make the playoffs this year either so I already counted it) Lerner and his father have owned the team in that period and you say it is not time to panic. THE CLEVELAND BROWNS are awful and the product they are selling (their brand of football) is crap. May I ask your age, you cant be over 21
I am staying out of this, but be warned this will not end well for you.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 20, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I am well aware of the history of this franchise since expansion. It is not time to panic. For the first time since expansion, we have a quality Front Office with a proven track record and a quality head coach who has experience rebuilding a team. The important pieces are in place. Be patient. Let Holmgren and Heckert and Mangini do their jobs. The wins will come.
(And, for the record, I’ve been a fan since Brian Sipe was quarterback. Not that that has any bearing on the conversation.)
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
Have you ever thought that maybe the problem was with past regimes who panicked instead of building slowly the right way?
by Roger Dorn on Sep 20, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We have a winner.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
What?!? Did we sign Trent Dilfer?
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 20, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s our new OC. He’s just going to do his job from the studio because he hates Cleveland so much he can’t even stand to be around the team.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
dude, you need to stop with the jason campbell bullshit.
and as long as you’ve been around, I would think you’d have gotten the point that cleveland.com-like rants will destroy your chances of gaining credibility here.
AREN’T YOU TIRED OF THIS TEAM BEING A JOKE?
I would have given up a 2nd round pick for Donovan McNabb (who is only 33). You can’t really defend the current quarterback situation, it is not improved and if Colt McCoy is the hope the Browns are lost.
Jason Campbell is better than any quarterback on the roster. McNabb does not compare he is so much better than all those quarterbacks on our roster and Campbell.
Lastly I did not say I wanted Cowher, I said the chants will start. They should have gotten Marty back 2 years ago instead of taking this direction. (Schottheimer is not what I want now but the total football operation would not have deteriorated this badly)
Based on the play in the 2nd half of each game so far against bad football teams, the Browns and the Rams are the worst football teams in the league. Atleast the Rams have their quarterback of the future on their roster and IS playing.
Maybe getting the 1st pick in April 2011 the BROWNS will finally get their quarterback of the future.
Honest question: Do any of you think the Browns could win now, with a competent quarterback? ( I think they would at least be 1-1 if not 2-0 so far, and win closer to 7 or 8 games this season. They do have so talent on offense) I like the current defense.
Don’t you think they could win now with a decent quarterback?
What don’t you understand about the term “retired”?
The Browns are at least better than the Rams and Bills.
No #1 pick please.
They can win now.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I would rather have a 23 year year old TJ ward who we have under contract for the next 4 years than a 33 yeard old donovan mcnabb whose contract expires next season and unless we make the playoffs (which, even with him here, would be tough) and have success there, he leaves.
I actually think Oakland has better weapons than us. However, he is just as bad, statistically if not worse than the QBs here. NO. Campbell is not better. you can maybe make a point for it, but I don’t buy it.
Actually, I would say the bills are 10 times worse than the browns and rams combined…the bills are THAT bad.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
we would have given up too much for Mcnabb, who wouldn’t be around long enough for this team to be a SB contender.
delhomme is exactly what we need if not asked to throw 40 times per game; therein lies the problem.
I contend we could win now if we had McNabb. T.J. Ward is a good player, his talent no matter how great does not compare to McNabb.
Who the hell cares if we win now? I want to win in the future with a team built from good drafting, not old aging FA’s that won’t get you anywhere but 7-9 wins and a close call at the playoffs.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
and 1 draft pick T.J. Ward is the only key to future success of the Browns? You want to watch this misery all year for what? They have had 10 years our of 11 of good draft picks (HAVE THEY WON ONE PLAYOFF GAME??)
McNabb has been to 5 (THAT IS 5 Championship games and 1 superbowl) and is younger and MUCH better than Cajun Delhomme.
Delhomme wasn’t brought into win, he was brought into place hold and mentor.
and 1 draft pick T.J. Ward is the only key to future success of the Browns?
But McNabb is? Wtf? And I didn’t say Ward is but he’s a building block. I said drafting will bring success. We will have future success DRAFTING, not picking up old FA’s.
McNabb has been to 5 (THAT IS 5 Championship games and 1 superbowl) and is younger and MUCH better than Cajun Delhomme.
Congratulations for knowing this. Do you want a cookie for going to wikipedia?
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t weaken your point with your insult.
Point is no denying, The Cleveland Browns would be a better football team with Donovan McNabb (who could have been had) then Wallace/Delhomme.
The rest of the league did not want Delhomme as a starter but you do. Wonderful choice.
I say the Browns would win with McNabb (didnt say Superbowl) but would be much more competitive and interesting. This team sucks because we have no shot of scoring.
I say the Browns would win with McNabb (didnt say Superbowl) but would be much more competitive and interesting. This team sucks because we have no shot of scoring.
This is the feeling of a front running fan.
You only want to win now. You don’t want a successful team for years to come, you want to be the Yankees. Yes, we would win with McNabb, that’s obvious, but we would’ve sacrificed much more in the long run. Sacrificing stability and future success to win now never works, it’s a very foolish thing to wish for.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
You really do not make sense at all. If they got Delhomme to stabilize the offense short term, and have a quarterback learn to be the future of the Browns in the long run, who are you (please tell us now) saying is that quarterback being groomed? Please tell me his name. (if you cant name one that is being groomed, ISNT IT BETTER TO BE COMPETITVE NOW WITH MCNABB) By the way Delhomme is NOT GOOD. He is and will always be a bad acquisition. I am waiting for the name of the quarterback learning under Delhomme’s calming influence and stable stellar freakin play? Who is the heir apparent?? Well we’re waiting…..
how many different ways can we say it: getting mcnabb would have cost too much in the long run. you are arguing wanting average right now for years of well below average later. senseless.
They have had high draft picks 10 of 11 years since coming back and one 2nd round player and a 4th rounder next year would not have killed the team going forward. Idiot
Second & 3rd round picks of the Browns, some names since 1999
Brodney Pool (not with team)
JuanJuan Dawson (cut and WHO?)
Melvin Fowler (cut)
Cris Crocker (sucked and cut)
Charlie Fry (OMG!!! we could miss out on another Fry)
Brady Quinn (1st rounder BLOWS and not with team)
Chaun Thompson (horrible and gone)
Travis Wilson (awful and cut)
Quincy Morgan (awful and cut)
Andre Davis (gone)
Abdullah (cut)
Sean Jones (gone)
still on the team Eric Wright (not a superstar and can be replaced)
DQ’well Jackson
So Mcnabb is not worth the gamble?
you blast people for insulting you, then call me an idiot. well played.
by Dawg Nuts on Sep 20, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7fsM9q27sc
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
actually Chaun Thompson was very athletic (ranked top 5 in all physical categories at Combine) the problem with him was that he came from West Texas A&M. Butch Davis was hoping he could coach him up & make him a WLB on the cheap. Lots of LB’s have been found like that. However he didn’t make the transition mentally & was a really good special teams player. He went to Houston & did well on their special teams before finally deciding to retire.
so you are going to fault Holmgren and Heckert, two individuals with a great track record in the draft, for what idiots did for 10 years?
You know, no one who drafted ANY of these guys is associated with the team anymore? in fact, all of them actually got demoted. Savage had his first stint as a GM and then went back to becoming an area scout, something he hadn’t done since the mid 90s.
Butch Davis is a bum and look at all those violations around his program in college (and the only place that would hire him was a school with a Sh**ty team at the time). Dwight clark retired from all of football.
Heckert however, actually served as GM on a successful team. it is idiotic in fact, to say the draft pick is a waste because of browns history of drafting. TJ ward so far has looked great and to judge him by past picks like this, without looking at his merits so far on the field, is mind boggling to me.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
They have had high draft picks 10 of 11 years since coming back and one 2nd round player and a 4th rounder next year would not have killed the team going forward. Idiot
Second & 3rd round picks of the Browns, some names since 1999
Brodney Pool (not with team)
JuanJuan Dawson (cut and WHO?)
Melvin Fowler (cut)
Cris Crocker (sucked and cut)
Charlie Fry (OMG!!! we could miss out on another Fry)
Brady Quinn (1st rounder BLOWS and not with team)
Chaun Thompson (horrible and gone)
Travis Wilson (awful and cut)
Quincy Morgan (awful and cut)
Andre Davis (gone)
Abdullah (cut)
Sean Jones (gone)
still on the team Eric Wright (not a superstar and can be replaced)
DQ’well Jackson
So Mcnabb is not worth the gamble?
Mike Holmgren accepts team president role with Cleveland Browns
And no I don’t believe that getting Holmgren will automatically make us contenders. But that’s the point, we have to do the hard work of building of team after 11 years of creating a mess. Getting McNabb, although I would love to have him, at the cost and in the position we are currently in would not do much for us to rebuild the organization, which I believe is the real task for the FO. This team has been a mess and gone through so many organizational philosophies since we’ve been backed that our continuity as an organization has a shelf life of about a year.
We have to build a successful organization capable of competing year in and year out in the AFC north not just an 8-9 win team for this season with the hope of competing for a wild card slot every 5 years, and I believe that is what the current FO realizes and is attempting to do.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
Think about how much $ a single winning season would bring to Cleveland. This about maybe other pro’s wanting to play for a multiple playoff QB. Think about maybe the draft scouts suck as they are wont to do in Cleveland. I say again – the $$$ it would bring the city!! Cleveland can’t wait to rebuild a team any longer. It has to get some wins or no one will want to play here and you won’t get all your talent from the draft like everyone here seems to think. Besides – contracts get broken all the time so the “we get 4 years of TJ ward…” is a moot point.
by browndawgbacker on Sep 20, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Think about how much $ a single winning season would bring to Cleveland
actually, not as much money as you may think. maybe, for a year, mcnabb brings in a bit more money, but he would be the only player people would really pay to watch.
This about maybe other pro’s wanting to play for a multiple playoff QB
…which will be in 2011 if there isn’t a lockout. however, McNabb is a free agent in 2011 and even if we do trade for him, I can’t see him staying here unless we are a legitimate title contender.
I say again – the $$$ it would bring the city!!
by saying it again, does that increase the money?
Cleveland can’t wait to rebuild a team any longer
so we should just sign over the hill guys every year so we can go 7-9 for the next decade?
F*$K you, go root for buffalo,becase thats what they do.
and you won’t get all your talent from the draft like everyone here seems to think
False. name me one elite franchise that builds mostly through free agency. The key players from Indy (wayne, sanders, peyton, etc..), the Pats (Brady, Light, Warren), the Steelers (Rapist, Polamalu, woodley), the Eagles (Mcnabb, Desean, Cole, etc..), and others that I could mention are acquired through the draft. you build through the draft, not through free agency.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Not as much as losing Lebron, but really what’s the point?
McNabb is not going to float the Cleveland economy and I don’t think the Lerner’s are strapped for cash, so i’m not certain where the amount of money a winning season brings to Cleveland has any relevance.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
We should not make panicked moves in order to bring a few millions to the City of Cleveland.
If you really think the Browns exist to bring money to Cleveland or could somehow help jumpstart the economy, think about how much money a 23 year old Pro Bowl QB and the decade of wins he would bring would make the city.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
we just need to draft Peyton Manning. It worked for the Colts.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 21, 2010 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Point is no denying, The Cleveland Browns would be a better football team with Donovan McNabb
DUH!
Did anyone say otherwise? Most of the arguments just state we wouldn’t be good enough to keep McNabb for more than one season (which is valid). this not a team missing just one piece and if they get it, are suddenly great. even with McNabb, they would have to catch quite a few lucky breaks to go 9-7.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
T.J. Ward is a good player, his talent no matter how great does not compare to McNabb.
for this team, his talent surpasses McNabb. we don’t need a good but aging QB to get us 8-8 this year. we need good, young players that can get us 12-4 in a few years. TJ Ward, and some of our other young guys, are exactly that.
Maybe we win more games now, maybe we go 9-7 or 10-6 and make the playoffs. HOWEVER, this team would have to go far into the playoffs to keep mcnabb. Plus, with mcnabb we don’t have ward which means adams and elam are starting. even with mcnabb and if everyone else is playing good, a team would have go get really lucky to make the playoffs with both of them as starters. even if you consider us getting a lesser safety (like a Major Wright), thats still a downgrade, plus that means that that’s another 2nd-3rd round pick that we used on wright instead of one of the guys we got.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Actually, while Champion64 is borderline incoherent, I think we would have been better off getting McNabb. Yes, he’s a free agent after this year, but the NFL isn’t like MLB. When was the last time you saw a quarterback leave his team in free agency when the team wanted to keep him? We definitely could have found a way to hang onto McNabb, and he would have been a good quarterback for us for the next four years or so — enough time to find and bring along a good young quarterback, rather than drafting Jake Locker and throwing him into the fire next season (which I’m terrified we’re going to do). As for him sabotaging a trade because we stink, well, he went to Washington, didn’t he?
Like you guys, I love TJ Ward, but I think he’s going to be a good safety, not another Troy Polamalu. And a good QB is always going to be better than a good safety. Give me McNabb.
really?
a) I am not sure if he has 4 years left, probably no more than 2. i know favre lasted till 40, but he was an iron man who never got hurt and didn’t take a ton of hits. because of his mobility, McNabb actually takes a fair amount of hits. Mcnabb is always nicked up and has had some major surgeries on his knees.
b) since he doesn’t have a ton of time left, I think he would want to go to a contender. He didn’t specifically choose to go to washington. I think he would want to finally win that super bowl and I dunno if he sees cleveland as the place to do it.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
1) He’s 33, so I gave him till 36. That’s not so long for a good QB. Sure, he’ll be banged up off and on, but most quarterbacks are.
b) I’m sure Cleveland wouldn’t have been his first choice, but that’s why we were trading for him. Washington isn’t a place to win a Super Bowl either, and he went there.
ut that’s why we were trading for him. Washington isn’t a place to win a Super Bowl either, and he went there.
I don’t know how much say he had in the team he was being traded to. My assumption would be not a ton.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
That’s my point exactly. We were trading for him. It doesn’t matter if he wants to come to Cleveland or not.
With a year left on his deal, it most certainly does matter if he wants to come to Cleveland. If he doesn’t want to come to Cleveland, there’s no sign and trade or contract extension, and we’re giving up picks for a one year rental.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
by golanbatrac on Sep 21, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
As I mentioned earlier, when was the last time you saw a free agent quarterback leave a team that wanted to keep him? We could have hung on to him if we wanted to.
By ‘wanted to’, you mean if we were willing to give a 33 year old quarterback who couldn’t win it all with a decade’s worth of great teams in Philly a multi year deal with lots of guaranteed money. To stay in Cleveland he would want Brady or Manning money. Not worth it to a rebuilding team. We’d be giving up picks to rent him for a year.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
by golanbatrac on Sep 21, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
If you draft a quarterback in the first round, you’re giving him Brady or Manning money too. No matter how you acquire him, if you have a good quarterback, you’re paying through the nose for him.
But we pay him Brady or Manning money for fresh, young legs and a long 7 year contract.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 21, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
With no guarantee of future performance. If you draft a first-round QB, you have to consider yourself lucky if you get four years of Donovan McNabb production out of that deal.
Not with a rookie wage scale you don’t. The teams who pay big bucks for QBs this year will regret it next year.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
This is an interesting point, and it makes sense. But without knowing what that scale will be, or how it will work, I’m not comfortable shaping the direction of my team around it.
Also, if there’s one position I’m comfortable overpaying for, it’s a guaranteed good quarterback.
Uncertainty should be met with caution. We’re in no position to be throwing money around like Washington or Dallas and giving away picks in the process.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
I think I agree with Chemo. But, really, this debate stopped being relevant in May.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
Yup. Might as well debate if we should have taken Couch or McNabb in ’99.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 20, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Borderline? That’s being generous.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 20, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Next weeks game is probably going to be something like 7 – 3 half way thru the 3rd quarter and then our defense is just going to collapse.
Early prediction 21 – 6 Ravens. Browns with less than 150 yards of offense unless Daboll suddenly becomes Bill Walsh overnight.
Hoping Cribbs goes nuts and Flacco picks up where he left off this week otherwise we are screwed. I just don’t see how we are going to move the ball against Baltimore.
I think are D is just as Good as Cincy so the points the D will be mild.Now the O will be what kills us and they might give up 14 points on there own :(
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 20, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
English, please. This isn’t twitter.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
by golanbatrac on Sep 20, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
just a quick random question from you fantasy guys…so last night I ended up down about 1.4 pts. I wasn’t too concerned since my opponent was finished and I still had frank gore to go tonight…but this morning I discovered all of a sudden I am up by about 1.2 pts. Do they amend/correct official stats at some point during the evening or something?
Ummmm….didnt you see the Browns lost…nothing else matters…
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Sep 20, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah I did. At least fantasy can possbily salvage me a small amount of satisfaction from the weekend. I guess.So the browns game was all around suckage.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 20, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes that happens sometimes.
It usually has something to do with a pass being changed to a run (think lateral) or something like that.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 20, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
OT (ish): I am sitting here in math class and we divert subjects onto the browns. My teacher says ‘how about that browns game yesterday’. a very depressing 5 minute discussion about it ending with my math teacher saying “people should just go to browns games with signs saying ‘do your best’”
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
I would hate to be in a real life Browns discussion with you…
Also, you probably helped the Browns lose 100+ fans quicker than they can lose them on their own.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
haha. I actually didn’t participate, mostly listened.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
I find that hard to believe…
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I am tired…I don’t feel like talking…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
I like your counterpoints, dont agree alot but I know you believe what you are saying. At least you make points instead of insults.
i doubt you know he is believing what he’s saying.
And at the expense of Bross and yourself, the points you guys make (you much much more than Bross) are terrible. People hit the point where insulting is the only way to get it into your head and I haven’t insulted you anyways. I’ve just disproven your points very well and you can’t handle that so you need to make an excuse, such as, I’m insulting you.
=D
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Bross brings up football points, you make an insult and do not enlighten anyone.
You would rather have Delhomme/Wallace than McNabb/Campbell? if so you should not comment on the Browns or football.
You would rather have Delhomme/Wallace than McNabb/Campbell? if so you should not comment on the Browns or football.
This is so ironic my head hurts.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
You are ignoring the draft picks given up in trades to acquire McNabb/Campbell. This is why no one takes your point seriously.
by Roger Dorn on Sep 20, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
No I am not. The draft picks given up to get McNabb (2nd rounder this year and 3 or 4th rounder next year) and or a 4th rounder next year for Campbell. These picks would have been worth it to have those two quarterbacks on the roster.
THe Browns are giving up a late round pick for Wallace and I still contended Delhomme is and will be a mistake.
Cleveland could compete and win with McNabb and the price would not have killed them
READ WHAT YOU JUST WROTE:
You would rather have Delhomme/Wallace than McNabb/Campbell? if so you should not comment on the Browns or football.
That, above, directly contradicts this, below:
You are ignoring the draft picks given up in trades to acquire McNabb/Campbell.
No I am not.
I would take McNabb in a straight up trade for Delhomme without hesitation. It would be a no-brainer. I would not trade a 2nd round pick and another pick for McNabb.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Roger Dorn…
Would you not rather have given up a couple picks to get McNabb and at least see a chance at winning then to wait to possibly draft a quarterback next year for 3 or 4 seasons down the road?
I was actually in favor of acquiring McNabb during the offseason, and I believe the front office wanted to as well. HOWEVER. The Eagles were not willing to trade him intiially if you recall and the Browns could not sit around and wait for them to make a move, so they moved on without the Eagles. I don’t fault the Eagles for changing their minds, I don’t fault our front office for not waiting around to make a move on Delhomme, and I sure as hell am not going to bitch about it.
by Roger Dorn on Sep 20, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Here is a million dollar question. Vick is out of Philly next year…should we be interested? He has looked pretty good in the last two games! Vick in the DawgPound….I like it!
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
I would as well. Reid has already said that Kolb will start next week. I don’t see Vick staying with Philly after this season.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
Granted I am probably going to regret opening this can of worms, but anyone else in for a Mornhinweg-Vick marriage?
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 21, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I would be in for Vick + OC of reasonable competence not named Daboll. Doesn’t have to be Morninhweg.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
by woodsmeister on Sep 21, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Kimble is it looks as though you have ripped off a donkey appendage and putt it over your head and are enjoyng playing with it. Oh well enjoy
My question is how does the team look so clueless in the second halves of these 2 games? You can point to a number of things, but my opinion is its the coaching, can I hear some your guys opinions!
Yes, we all agree it’s Daboll.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 20, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
My only question is whether its Haskill trying to help too much with Daboll, Haskill only, or Daboll only? I’m not sure which (or both) to blame.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
Daboll has been sub-par at making adjustments (or planning more than a series or two) for some time now. Quinn looked very good on opening drives during his second stint last year, and I’d say it was thanks to Daboll. After the opening drive or two, it seemed like our offense hit a wall.
So it would be hard for me to blame Haskell.
It isn’t 100% Daboll’s fault, some fault always lies with the players. There have been open receivers and we can’t execute. But it does seem like whenever a D figures out what we are trying to do and they counter punch, we have no counter back. Is it that Daboll is bad at thinking on his feet? Is it that we have great plays called but can’t execute them? Is is that the players aren’t good at audibling out of things? Is it that we are simply not that great of an offense?
Probably all of the above.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I would imagine if it has anything to do with Haskell, it’s probably Daboll not being able to comprehend.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
This is about the 600th post in a thread entirely about how the Browns are clueless in the second halves of games. Are you asking this ironically?
1.) Our starting QB has only been healthy for 1 half this year.
2.) Daboll hasn’t made a half-time adjustment worth a damn in 18 games.
3.) We lack top end skill position players that make QBs and offensive coordinators look good.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
Game 2 and we are already in the doldrums of Browns fandom. I didn’t have time to read all the posts above, there are just too many. Here are my observations.
1. I have some friends that constantly fault Daboll’s play calling. I’d have to look at lot more closely at every down and see if it is the wrong call or if it is just bad execution. What does this mean? The Browns have the worst combination: poor coaching AND poor players. That’s why we are bad. No quick fix here that I can see.
2. When I say “poor players” above what I really mean is no reliable big play makers. True they are somewhat rare in the league but teams that win usually have a couple on each side of the ball. I see potential on defense with our rookies this year but not even potential on offense. Who is going to break out on offense and become a “Javid Best”-type star on the Browns? There are a lot of good, serviceable players on the team but without some real threats at receiver, running back, etc. those players don’t look as good as they should.
3. There are some bright spots but they seem to blaze for a moment and them fade. I like the toughness of Hillis and Moore. The O line is decent most of the time. But I have to say that Harrison is a fake. He wasn’t very good before the last few games of last year and seems the same now. Those last games last year are the flukes… reminds me of DA’s one good season. And are we going to see Davis this year at all? Is he still on the roster?
4. I thought Seneca Wallace was supposed to be accurate? I didn’t see a lot of accuracy in his short throws and especially on the long ones. He had the long throw to Cribbs but most of the rest of the long attempts looked like he was throwing it away. I honestly couldn’t tell if he was trying for a reception on a lot of them as they were so far out of bounds. He looks scared and tentative most of the time and he telegraphs what he is about to do. I think the bad, deep throws highlight his fear of getting picked off. How long has he been in the league as a backup? That should tell you something.
5. 0-9 is a very realistic possibility for this team, this year. Who are we going to beat in the next 7 games? If you look down the list all the games look like locks against the Browns. I don’t think anyone would pick the Browns to win any of those games. And who would you have on your fantasy team from the Browns? I wouldn’t have any of them on my team in our 10-team league. There will probably be one game that the Browns will win that they are not favored to win—that kind of thing happens in the NFL but to my eyes we seem to have another 4-12 season brewing.
I’ll still watch all the games and visit here often… I love the Browns but man, how can I be thinking about the draft after the second game of the season?
Brownsyup
yep. every year, you win at least one game you are not supposed to and you lose at least one game you are supposed to win and should win (you, meaning NFL teams). Sometimes its more than one, and I have this feeling that because we blew 2 games we should have won, we will come out with a couple surprise victories and still end up 2-7.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
49ers, after looking clueless against Seattle, looked like the contender many predicted against the Saints tonight.
I really hope we make Ward follow Reggie Bush everywhere on the field if he is healthy, because we don’t have any LBs as athletic as Patrick Willis (no one does).
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Bush is out for 6 weeks. We’ll be getting an extra helping of Shockey and Lance Moore, I’d guess.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
by golanbatrac on Sep 21, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
A couple players??
If the Browns had a decent quarterback, One above average receiver (to go along with the receivers they have now) and a right tackle, one more good db, and an Offensive Coordinator where would they be?
Hello from KC.
I just wanted to point out one thing this article didn’t mention. How good the Browns special teams are, exp in return coverage.
Thanks! We actually use quite a few rosters spots for Special teams only type players that wouldn’t see the field in game action – Blake Costanzo being the most notable. These guys are part of the reason we have some of the best special teams in the league. Good luck with your electric new return men the rest of the season.
Honestly I’m ok with him getting a second chance but I think that if any team signs him from the Eagles they will have a potential public relations nightmare on their hands.
Say Vick, has an outstanding season as a backup/wildcat option. Maybe he starts next week and has another great game and then goes back to being a back up once Kolb is healthy. He doesn’t get another start but is so dynamic running the wildcat that you just know he can be a starter in the league again. So we sign him and he comes to town and the FO talks about getting second chances and being allowed to recover from past mistakes, etc.
Then the season starts and Vick sucks, not just because he isn’t playing well, but also because maybe we aren’t as good/talented/well coached a team as the Eagles. So now we have brought in a guy many people already have a problem with in hopes he leads our team with visions of him making us better and then he sucks.
That would be a major gamble for Holmgren and Co. to take in only their second year and if this year blows up after he decided to keep Mangini and Co, that’s two major blunders in only two years on the job. Also if the season is uncapped I could forsee Vick commanding a substantial salary, which could become a problem if we sign him to multiple years and the cap comes back having an effect on his remaining years. Pressure would be ridiculous and would probably lead us back on to the dysfunctional organization carousel.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
That might have been the most pessimistic view on the topic possible. However, I do see your point and I agree that he would be a great risk but him and Harrison together could possibly form a duo equal to Vince Young and Chris Johnson. No I do not think Harrison is anywhere as good as CJ but Vick is better then Vince Young and many of those read option plays could work very well with Harrison’s speed and skill set. Also, even though Vick is thirty he had 2 years off to basically rest his body and I think he has at least 5 good years left barring injury.
Oh yeah, it was very pessimistic, but I’m just thinking that we’re wanting to operate in a semi-pessimistic manner. Try to build a strong foundation by building upon some solid, sustainable decisions and improvements without making too many risky decisions. It might take longer but in the end I think it is the best course. I think many decisions were rushed in the early years since 1999, and that the team has been stuck trying to correct those mistakes and have unfortunately compounded those early mistakes with more mistakes.
I also definitely think Vick has some more years in his body and I would love to see him get a chance to run our offense, I’m just worried not many others share that view and that it could be creating a combustible situation.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
I agree that we cannot rush into things, but the quarterback position is something that the FO needs to fix as soon as they can. If it means giving up a draft pick or something to get Vick I say do it.
I would really like to see us draft a QB in the first round. We should make due with veterans until that guy is ready.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
There will be some good choices this year, and we’ll have a high draft pick.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 21, 2010 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions
The ballboy - reprised
It really does not matter what the owner does in the front office….unless they give Holmgren the authority to fire the ballboy!
Only question is whether we are 0-3 or 0-4 or 0-5 or 0-6 or 0-7 or 0-8 or 0-9 when we trade the ballboy for a pick to be named later…
I’m putting a fiver in the office pool on 0-7…
Time to throw Colt to Ravens….let the birds pick the road kill’s bones clean
So poetic.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
How many games are lost?
Three, four, five, six, seven, eight?
Trade ballboy for picks!
by Chemo on Sep 21, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
if we could trade a ballboy for a draft pick I’d do it in a second.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 21, 2010 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Jeez, any chance Pierre Thomas and Garrett Hartley score less than 4 points combined from here on out? That’s what I need to beat Dawg Nuts. Otherwise, I will be the least lucky in the league (I’ll have lost twice to the leading scorer).
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
I think you’ll still get me. But I’m hopping it stays right here.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 20, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
damn… now I need a Thomas fumble…
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 20, 2010 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I need a piano to fall from the sky and land on Frank Gore.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
by golanbatrac on Sep 20, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Well that sucked.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
by golanbatrac on Sep 20, 2010 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
if it makes you feel any better, I needed a huge game from Thomas and Vernon Davis….they pulled me within 20pts, but I got blew out this week also
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
I needed a game from eli manning…actually pretty much every one. my opponent got 3 big weeks from his guys whereas I had guys starting that pretty much laid goose eggs.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
I think I am the opposite of you then. Have squeaked by 2 of the lowest scores in consecutive weeks.
holy crap, you won with 62 points.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 21, 2010 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I believe Dawg Nuts was not the leading scorer this week.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Damnitt, I was wrong.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
READ THIS CHIEFS FANS
According to MKC, the Browns have sent tape of Jerome Harrison’s “fumble” into the league office for review. Apparently, they don’t think it was a close call either.
Why would it matter?
We get a sorry?
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 21, 2010 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ve always wondered about this, what happens if the NFL is like “yeah, we screwed up”?
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 21, 2010 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s the sound made by a tree falling in the forest when nobody is around to hear. If the offending official gets any censure at all, it will all be under the rug and not made public. And let’s face it – there is a heirarchy of officiating and the NFL knows which officials are the better ones and which games are more important. The Browns will be getting more crappy NFL officials this year because they will be playing fewer important games. That’s just the way it’s going to be, so we might as well anticipate that we’ll not only be playing against the other team, but also the officials.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
by woodsmeister on Sep 21, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Realistically, they probably take the fumble from Harrison’s stats.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 21, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a random question.
What does it mean when a QB kind of makes an O shape with his hands and taps his fingers together repeatedly? Does that just mean to hurry up and get to the line?
(I was watching the 49ers game and Alex Smith kept doing that.)
Huddle. They were in hurry-up mode, but he did that when the previous play stopped the clock.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 21, 2010 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I asked this exact same thing last monday!!!
It means huddle up.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 21, 2010 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Haha, I always saw it and assumed huddle but I swear sometimes they do it and don’t huddle!
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 21, 2010 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
nice.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 21, 2010 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Alex Smith has matured like he freaking hit puberty.
Counting last week as a fluke, San Fran is legit.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 21, 2010 12:05 AM EDT reply actions
What if this week is the fluke? (for the record i picked them to win their division)
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
Woah, a spin on things. A positive fluke?
But no. They imploded throughout the game with turnovers and simple mistakes and still looked legit.
That O – line is freaking beast. Not to mention that offense of weapons.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 21, 2010 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Seeing as how they have since figured out how to call their plays in with >5 seconds left on the playclock, I think last week was the fluke.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Yeah I’m suprised Coach Singletary didn’t air somebody out over that. Or atleast pull down his pants once or twice.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
He didn’t have the same coordinator for 2 consecutive years for a while. He had no veterans in front of him who had found success in the league. His line was awful for a while, and he hasn’t had very good targets until very recently.
If I am drafting a guy #1 overall, I am not doing that to him.
Lastly, he looked ok when he had Norv Turner as an OC.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
The 49ers OLine os going to be good for quite some time.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 21, 2010 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
But it wasn’t early in Smith’s career. He had relatively no shot behind some of those lines.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I was just making a point after watching the game last night.
I am jealous of them having Iupati.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 21, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
One thing that really struck me about watching San Francisco is how often they had receivers that were WIDE OPEN in almost any place on the field. New Orleans is a good defensive team too. Is this how an offensive scheme is supposed to look?
I don’t think I’ve seen a receiver catch a pass on the Browns this year without someone breathing down his neck. Is that all lack of talent in the receiving corps or could it be that our scheme is too simplistic? The defenses we have played are not exactly top-tier and they seemed to be able to figure out just about every route.
Brownsyup
On the plays where that happened, it was usually because the play had broken down and Smith was buying time with his feet.
There were a few times where NO blew the coverage, but you cant scheme your offense to make defenses screw up.
In HS receivers are wide open, in college they are open, and in the NFL you have to throw them open.
Those throws to Crabtree over the middle where he caught the ball and juked two guys out and the one to The Disease on a vertical route down the field were NFL throws. Just like the one to Cribbs in our game. Brees also had one to Coltston in the last seconds that was a back-shoulder type pass, which is really the throw that puts NO over the top. They use it all the time on fades.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
You know what I hate? How people from NO who I never heard cheer on the Saints before last season are now they’re biggest fans. Jumping on the bandwagon for sure.
You’ve said this before.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 21, 2010 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
You should throw some football smackdown on their ass. You know more about the Saints than them and you’re a Browns fan!
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 21, 2010 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
At least some of them have stopped cheering for the Steelers.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 21, 2010 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Here we go indeed.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 21, 2010 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Yikes, look at all the comments when I take a one-day break from the site! Working on my game review; should be up some time today.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
Why oh why isn't this guy on our team?

All he needs is an axe in one hand and a severed head in the other (complete with football helmet) and he’d be Conan.
Brownsyup

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