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Seneca Wallace's Pick Six is a Killer in Browns' 16-14 Loss to Chiefs

CLEVELAND - SEPTEMBER 19:  Running back Thomas Jones #20 of the Kansas City Chiefs dives for a first down against the Cleveland Browns at Cleveland Browns Stadium on September 19 2010 in Cleveland Ohio.  (Photo by Matt Sullivan/Getty Images)

KANSAS CITY CHIEFS (2-0) GAME #2 CLEVELAND BROWNS (0-2)
VS.
16 14


Sunday's loss to the Kansas City Chiefs felt very similar to the one the Browns suffered in Week 1 against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. I'm going to start sounding like a broken record before we're even a significant portion of the way into the season, but I don't care: when you have a stupid offensive gameplan, you are not going to win very many games.

Heading into the season, we might have ranked our units in this order, from best to worst: special teams, defense, offense. Through the first two weeks, the order looks like this: defense, special teams, offense. To say that the defense has improved would be an understatement; they are the reason we've lost our first two games by a combined five points. For the offense to not execute is just an absolute killer to the rest of the players busting their tail off on gameday.

With that said, let's get to the review of the game. We'll kick off with the goats and the game balls...

Star-divide

WEEK 2 - KANSAS CITY CHIEFS VS. CLEVELAND BROWNS (COMPLETE GAME REVIEW)

Goats of the Game:

  • Seneca Wallace: If Jake Delhomme was named a goat for last week's interception to Ronde Barber, then there's no way I can forgive Wallace's pick six to CB Brandon Flowers. Yes, Wallace "made up for it" so to speak with a bomb to Joshua Cribbs moments later, but that is beside the point. Wallace's decision to stare at Chansi Stuckey to begin with on the sideline, hesitate, and then still lob the throw over there highlights the very reason I never considered him capable of being our starting quarterback.
     
    If I put his throw against Delhomme's on a scale, I'd say Wallace's was worse because there was no pressure and he couldn't have missed the defender standing there the whole time. Wallace also gets partial blame for his lack of accuracy on many of his deep throws, but I'll get more into that later.
     
  • Alex Mack: Apparently, our beloved center was furious after former Brown Shaun Smith allegedly "grabbed his private parts." Mack said he was so fired him that he started to chase Smith to the sideline during the second quarter. What happened on Cleveland's next series?
     
    After a catch and run by Jerome Harrison, Mack inexplicably plowed into linebacker Derrick Johnson for a clear late hit, resulting in a 15-yard penalty. Guess who attempted, and then missed, a 42-yard field goal two plays later? Phil Dawson. Guess how many points the Browns lost by? Two. Granted, the field goal in itself could've changed Kansas City's philosophy in the second half, but Mack's hit could have been the underrated difference.

Awarding Game Balls:

  • Matt Roth: I can't give game balls to the entire defense every week, so this week I'll single out Matt Roth. The Chiefs were trying to muster a big drive to close out the first half, but Roth stuck his hand up and deflected a pass from Matt Cassel. Nose tackle Ahtyba Rubin was on the receiving end of the pick, and any time Roth helps a defensive lineman get an interception, that in itself is worth a game ball.

General Thoughts:

  1. Run vs. Pass Distribution: The distribution between pass attempts and run attempts was a little better this week, but still not where it needs to be. In a game where the Browns again had the lead for most of the second half and were never down by more than three points, the number of passes for Wallace (31) should not outweigh the carries by Jerome Harrison and Peyton Hillis (24).
     
  2. Commitment to Harrison: Despite Harrison only having a 2.1 yards per carry average on 16 carries, I think it was the right decision to remain somewhat committed to giving him the football. The problem against the Chiefs wasn't so much Harrison as it was the playcalling and the lower quality blocking. Harrison should not be running very often without Lawrence Vickers, and I think it's time we see Shawn Lauvao and Tony Pashos command the right side of the line.
     
  3. Worst Officiating Call: Over at Arrowhead Pride following the game, I saw a few Chiefs fans question why we'd blame the officials for the Browns losing this game. I can't get too picky on calls like the roughing the passer one, because as stupid as the rule is, it often gets called the same way for many teams in the NFL, just like it also did against the Baltimore Ravens last week.
     
    However, the non-reversal of Jerome Harrison's fumble was as bad as you can get in terms of officiating. The ground clearly caused the fumble, and the camera was right on top of the action to show that. What more visual evidence is required? Chalk up three more points that were handed to the Chiefs. Kansas City scored 10 points in the first half, and our defense was not responsible for either of the Chiefs' scores.
     
  4. Obsession With the Deep Ball: Did I miss some scouting report that said that the combination of [Seneca Wallace + the Chiefs defense] = [success with the deep ball]? I did not anticipate that being the apparent focal point of the gameplan, but shockingly it was. Don't get me wrong, I love throwing the deep ball here and there, especially if you can utilize it off of playaction effectively.
     
    I also liked the fact that Wallace sometimes recognized the all-out blitz and would immediately throw the ball toward the sideline to give his receiver a chance to make a play. However, on plays like that one, or the other third-down plays, there should be other routes available to Wallace. Do we really have such a lack of faith in the route running abilities of our receivers that all we can tell them is to "go deep"?
     
  5. More on the Deep Ball: The crazy thing about the deep ball against the Chiefs? Our receivers were open every time. I don't know if that was dumb luck or something that was scouted, but then you have to consider how often Wallace missed his receiver. His best throw went to Joshua Cribbs, which makes sense for two reasons: the two often worked together in camp in the Cyclone, and the throw was over the middle of the field. Wallace seemed to have trouble getting the ball accurately to either sideline on deep passes.
     
  6. One More 'Ugh'...: My last two points just talked about our quarterback throwing many deep balls to our wide receivers. If you thought that would be talked about versus our [projected] success in the run game prior to the season, then I'd like you to pick some lottery numbers for me.
     
  7. The Tight End Bug: While it wasn't particularly devastating this week, the Chiefs' leading received ended up being rookie tight end Tony Moeaki, a third round pick out of Iowa. He had 5 catches for 58 yards, but the part that hurt were that his final three catches all went for first downs and decent yardage.
     
  8. Moore Hit Hard: Tight end Evan Moore took a nasty blow to the head against the Chiefs. Wallace found Moore running up the field on target, but it would've been tough for Moore to hang on even if it were a clean hit. He appeared to suffer a concussion, so I hope he is fine.
     
  9. Secondary Excels Again: I can't really complain about our secondary, who again held a quarterback to under 200 yards and this week without a touchdown. Sheldon Brown also had a very acrobatic interception on a deep pass; it was a very impressive leap in my book. Safety T.J. Ward was a tackling machine again, with 10 tackles. I'm assuming the coverage was also stout on the play where Marcus Benard recorded a sack, because Cassel held the ball for too long on the play before Benard finally reached him.
     
  10. Kicking Away From Cribbs: Look at these starting field position numbers after kickoffs:
     
    -35 yard line
    -25 yard line
    -26 yard line
    -34 yard line
    -33 yard line
     
    While those starting field position numbers are decent, I'm sure the Chiefs were thrilled to finish the game with those results. With how often the ball was kicked short, I'd expect at least something past the 40-yard line. Once again, a team found a way to neutralize Cribbs on returns (he only was able to return one punt for five yards too).
     
  11. Dawson Misses It: Although a penalty forced Phil Dawson into a longer field goal possibly, Dawson is usually money from 42 yards. To see him pull it wide left was another zing to our team's hope for momentum. After connecting on field goals left and right in the preseason, it's a punch in the gut to see Dawson miss in the regular season.
     
  12. Hodges' Good Day...Sort Of: My number one fear about Reggie Hodges heading into the season would be that he'd be a pretty decent punter, except for that one punt per game you always remember that costs you. Hodges punted eight times in the game and had four downed inside the 20. It should've been five, but Joe Haden barely went into the end zone one time.
     
    Then, it happened -- with 2:41 in the game, Hodges only booted a 37-yard punt (no return). The Chiefs started that drive 42 yards away from the end zone. Had the punt been a little better, maybe the Chiefs are a little more weary about going for it on fourth down and the Browns get another chance, only down a field goal.
     
  13. Massaquoi's Drop at the End: The drop by Mohamed Massaquoi near the end of the game was another killer. It wasn't an easy catch to make, but it was still one you have to come down with considering the defender didn't get turned around good enough to make a play on the ball. Add up all of these "what if's" I keep mentioning, and you can figure out why Browns fans are so frustrated to have lost the first two games.
     
  14. Thomas Jones' Leap: I don't think Thomas Jones got the first down, but when a guy is leaping in the air in real-time speed, I can't blame the officials for how they spot it. The replay review looked like he possibly could be a tiny bit short, but on the same note it wasn't very conclusive. Oh well; chalk up another break that goes the way of the opposing team.
     
  15. Special Teams Tackles: The Browns' coverage units on special teams were outstanding. The leading tacklers were Joe Haden (2) and T.J. Ward (2). One tackle apiece came from the special team vets, Ray Ventrone, Blake Costanzo, and Kaluka Maiava. On four punt returns, Javier Areans only had six return yards. On kickoffs, the Chiefs' returners averaged less than 20 yards a touch.
     
  16. Brownies: If I had to pick on one defensive player, it would be Abram Elam...overall, the good tackling continued...the Chiefs picked up chunks of yardage in the run game right before the half to no avail, but the backs were stopped at the line a lot more often than the past few years...David Bowens played but did not record a statistic...Nick Sorensen was back and assisted on one tackle...Ben Watson had a nice 44-yard scamper, but like everyone else seemed absent in the second half.

Where do we go from here? The Browns face the Ravens next week, so it'll probably be time to cue up an offensive breakout. /sarc

It really does come down to playcalling, beside the one-throw-to-the-sideline-for-a-pick-six-by-Delhomme-or-Wallace plays. If that means we have to get rid of Brian Daboll this early in the year (not Eric Mangini), then so be it. I am disappointed in our offense, but I haven't lost faith in them. Some people look at our schedule and don't see how we can win a game over the next seven weeks or so. If it comes down to talent, we're good enough to win some of those games in my opinion. If it comes down to the same type of playcalling though, then I won't be picking the Browns to win for awhile.

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Agree full-heartedly with your last paragraph. I think it’s pretty clear HOW we can win games against the likes of the Ravens/Bengals/Saints of the league…put together two halves of football and don’t give up sloppy points/turnovers.

I’m not going to say that we WILL beat those teams, but I agree on a talent level we’re good enough to win.

by DisplacedBuckeye on Sep 21, 2010 11:26 AM EDT reply actions  

This. Turnovers are what’s making us 0-2 rather than 2-0.

by emily522 on Sep 21, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was on the bad-play-call bandwagon, but in retrospect I think that this last game was lost to a combination of penalties and a poor passing game. Wallace just wasn’t getting the ball where it needed to be, and on a few plays the receivers didn’t have the concentration to get their feet in bounds or hang on to the ball.

Maybe the fault in the passing game was the play calling, but I have to think that the staff would decide how they wanted to attack the defense, practice plays to carry out that attack, and then use those plays in the game. I’m left with only conjecture, but if the plays were executed in practice, then a reasonable person would expect them to have a chance in the game. Likewise, if they did not work in practice, a reasonable person would not rely on them in the game.

So, without further evidence, I’m backing off the charge of poor play calling for now only because there were plays that could have been made, but were not properly executed – and because a lot of forward progress in the second half was tossed out the window with penalties.

by JustBob on Sep 21, 2010 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is kind of how I feel. I think we had too many penalties that put us in a tough position to get first downs.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 21, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Would I be too cynical and too much of a conspiracy freak to think that they kept Daboll around as a fall-guy in case things blow up early in the season this year? I have a hard time thinking of another reason to keep him around given the following factors:

1. The Browns had one of the worst offenses in the league last year. Maybe you can point at the mediocre players but the OC needs to take some of that heat when you are at the absolute bottom.
2. Fans were complaining about Daboll last year until the end of the season when the wins in “garbage time” made us all starry-eyed and full of false hope.
3. It made a lot of sense to switch out any questionable coach at the same time you were bringing in new quarterbacks and a new front office. If you look up “questionable coach” in the football dictionary there is a big ol’ picture of Daboll.

I think Holmgren is smart enough to know that when you bring in a lot of new players (including new QBs) and a different overall philosophy that there is a pretty good chance you are going to flounder for a couple of years until the team buys into what you are doing and learns all they need to know well enough to perform it on the field. Given that fact it would be very good long-term strategy to have a fall-guy or two between angry fans/local media and yourself. Daboll is a perfect fall-guy and I fully expect him to get fired in the next few weeks if the offense continues to sputter.

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Sep 22, 2010 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Would I be too cynical and too much of a conspiracy freak to think that they kept Daboll around as a fall-guy in case things blow up early in the season this year?

Maybe not, but the sad thing then would be that our offensive performance would be directly attributable to those higher up than him. There would be no easy scapegoat but instead rot from the head down….

"Come week twelve, the difference between 0-9 and 2-7 won’t matter one bit to the slopeheads. You’ll still be the same dimwitted, chicken little a--holes you’ve always been; demanding that this person and that person get fired and that the Browns trade away future draft picks for placeholders." --- golanbatrac, 9/20/2010

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 22, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm a Seahawks fan and I don't want to sound like a troll

But that paragaph about Seneca is him in a nutshell. He shows flashes of brilliance but it is lost in the shuffle with all of his bread dead plays. Last year he ran out of bounds on crucial 3rd downs for losses. He also completely panics under pressure and very rarely makes the right decision.

Seneca is a passable backup but in no way should he even be starting because he is a disaster waiting to happen. No doubt he’s athletic and has a strong arm for his size, but he’s just not a smart QB.

Much respect to the Browns for being an improved team but you guys definitely need a QB.

Mo Johnston finally fired. Let the house cleaning and road to success begin.

by SSreporters on Sep 21, 2010 11:44 AM EDT reply actions  

You are not sounding like a troll. sounding like a troll is saying

SENECA WALLACE SUUUUUUUKS!!!! EVERY BROWNS SUCK AND HOLMGREN IS A MORAN!

thank you for your input and we are just starting to realize this…thankfully though, he is our backup

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.

I appreciate Male Beauty

Intensive Purposes? I could care less...

by bross09 on Sep 21, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I need a new sigline…

:-(

Welcome Joe!
Go Seneca!

by LondonBrown on Sep 21, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Make sure you copyright it, whatever you do.

I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.

LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 21, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

@SSreporters. I’m sure most Browns fans would use exactly the same words in describing Anderson over on the Cardinal’s board. My main impression from the last game was that Wallace plays scared. Not that he is scared of the violence the defense wants to inflict upon him, but scared of being the goat of the game by throwing an interception or getting sacked.

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Sep 22, 2010 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Any chance Rob Ryan knows anything about calling offense? I’d like to draft him for part-time offensive coordinator. Specifically the second half.

by ouched on Sep 21, 2010 11:49 AM EDT reply actions  

We should be able to find out during weeks 9 through 17.

by dgcambridge on Sep 21, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly my point! The leading with the helmet call was NOT the worst call of the game and didn’t determine the outcome.

As an aside, I believe the rule is meant as a precaution. Tackling using the helmet can possibly lead to unintentional helmet-to-helmet contact (as with Kendrick Lewis).

by SupremeChief on Sep 21, 2010 12:20 PM EDT reply actions  

no one was saying the call was a bad one, just that we hate that rule.

Watch the replay. Lewis had to leap in the air in order to make helmet-to-helmet contact. That was as intentional as it gets.

I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.

by notthatnoise on Sep 21, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that the NFL is expecting way too much from Defensive Backs. They have to make a split second decision whether to go for the hit or the INT.

I haven’t seen the hit since Sunday, but I thought it was a bad call then Sunday.

by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 21, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

They have to make a split second decision whether to go for the hit or the INT.

If I was a DB, I’d always trust the Madden Rule:

Very quickly hit B and pound the F*&K out of Y.

I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.

LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 21, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

that play was an intentional blow to the head. I thinks it’s dumb to only have the penalty for QBs and WRs, but I think it’s a good rule.

Lewis could have easily knocked the snot out of Moore without jumping to hit him in the head.

I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.

by notthatnoise on Sep 21, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

But my qualm is that maybe Lewis was going for the ball originally, but couldn’t make it, so he went for the hit instead. To force a DB to make that snap second decision, while adding in the caveat that he can’t hit him above the shoulders is too much IMO.

I don’t think he was trying to injure Moore. I agree that the league has to be concerned with injuries but this wasn’t a Chuck Cecil type of play. This is a contact sport, hits are going to happen, especially when it is a high pass down the seam.

by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 21, 2010 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

What if the NFL required players to wear bigger/better helmets? I don’t care if that thing has as big of a radius as a car tire, people are going to get hit in the head playing football.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Sep 22, 2010 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

But how else is the league going to address the concussion issue? They aren’t going to just throw their hands up and associate serious brain injury with the cost of playing football.

by Western Reserve on Sep 22, 2010 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Make better helmets.

Look how far helmets have come over the past 10 years.

by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 22, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

And that’s something the NFL should look into. But, for now, those rules are going to have to be implemented to protect the players. I’m sure you saw Moore after the hit. He was really shaken…possibly had a mild concussion as well. That’s something I don’t want to see, for that type of injury can be prevented 98% of the time.

by SupremeChief on Sep 22, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

But it isn’t working. Is there any thing to suggest that there are less hits/concussions since the rule changes?

fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 22, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I frankly don’t know if the rules are working or not; there might be enough legal and incidental contact that cause concussions. On the contrary, can you say with certainty the rule hasn’t prevented injury in cases where it has deterred players from going high on someone’s head?

by Western Reserve on Sep 23, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’d say, for the most part, it’s working. The implemented rules SHOULD make players think twice and be more cautious. Does it work 100% of the time? No. And it probably won’t ever be that precise. But think about how many helmet shots we’d see if those rules weren’t in place.

by SupremeChief on Sep 23, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not convinced that the rules are a deterrent at all. And a lot of the hits that are now penalties- any grazing of a QB’s head with a pinky counts- that have nothing to do with safety or concussions.

fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 23, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Veikune touched someone’s foot in the preseason and got slapped with 15 yards.

I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.

LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 24, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously, make people play with mattresses on their heads.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Sep 22, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Machismo is (seriously) not likely to be a winning argument with the NFL or the players association.

by Western Reserve on Sep 23, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think the hit was intentional.

I could very well be proven wrong. Either way, I disagree with it being a bad call. Frankly, that kind of play by Lewis (whether intentional or unintentional) is unacceptable considering how dangerous helmet-to-helmet contact can be. I can see your logic and can even appreciate it, but I believe it was the right call to make for the sake of your player’s safety.

by SupremeChief on Sep 22, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not sure you can really prove intentionality on that kind of thing.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Sep 22, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I suppose you’re right. Let’s just say I ***hope*** it wasn’t intentional.

by SupremeChief on Sep 22, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

watch the replay again.

I watched the game again, and saw the hit from another angle. It looked like he didn’t even make contact to Moore’s helmet IMO, it was a shoulder blow.

Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
The Raiders continue to be the proverbial pile of shit from the sphincter of the football gods.

by CPT.Caveman on Sep 22, 2010 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

that is absurd.

I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.

by notthatnoise on Sep 22, 2010 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well from the angle i saw he didn't contact him with his helmet at all,sorry not trying to be a jerk, it's just my opinion.

Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
The Raiders continue to be the proverbial pile of shit from the sphincter of the football gods.

by CPT.Caveman on Sep 22, 2010 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Who over at AP can GIF an image?

I’d like to see the play again because I honestly don’t think Lewis did it intentionally.

by SupremeChief on Sep 22, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wish I could.

I recall Lewis attempting to lower his helmet. I do not recall him jumping into the air. Maybe someone can capture a GIF image of the play.

by SupremeChief on Sep 22, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

There're no need for pot shots, man.

People are going to disagree. You may not like what others have to say, but using insults isn’t the way to go. Debate minus insults equals respect.

by SupremeChief on Sep 22, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

The larger point though is that you are trying to debate something that none of us are disagreeing with.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 22, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right. I got that.

Seeing someone say “borderline call” or “questionable call” leaves me with the impression the poster thinks the call was bogus.

Since I realize it wasn’t the actual call but the rule where the disagreement lied, that opens it up for an entirely different debate…because I DO agree with the helmet rules the NFL has implemented.

by SupremeChief on Sep 22, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™

by golanbatrac on Sep 22, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Holy crap, can you read man? We have been telling you the same thing for the past few days!

I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.

LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 21, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let the Chiefs Fans Crow, they are going nowhere fast either. The better team did not win on Sunday. That being said, neither team is any good at all. Oh and by the way Chief fans IT WAS NOT A FUMBLE, at least admit that.

by champion64 on Sep 21, 2010 12:23 PM EDT reply actions  

I'll admit it.

But what good does it do at this point? But IMO we are even, because of the helmet to helmet call.

Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
The Raiders continue to be the proverbial pile of shit from the sphincter of the football gods.

by CPT.Caveman on Sep 22, 2010 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

no, no, no. Many people, including tons at this site, have a problem with the rule about helmet to helmet contact. that doesn’t mean according to the rules that wasn’t a penalty. It was the right call.

The play with Harrison wasn’t even close to a fumble. It was not the right call. These two plays do not even out.

I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.

by notthatnoise on Sep 22, 2010 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think the helmet to helmet was the right call either but hey I'm just a Caveman WTF do i know.

Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
The Raiders continue to be the proverbial pile of shit from the sphincter of the football gods.

by CPT.Caveman on Sep 22, 2010 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Here's a link so that you can watch the game again, and see what you think.

http://www.kcchiefsgames.com/

It’s safe

Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
The Raiders continue to be the proverbial pile of shit from the sphincter of the football gods.

by CPT.Caveman on Sep 22, 2010 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

that’s pretty awesome, but it requires a username and password. Safe as it may be I don’t really like giving out my e-mail to too many sources.

I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.

by notthatnoise on Sep 22, 2010 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hey i can give you my username and password if you like.

Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
The Raiders continue to be the proverbial pile of shit from the sphincter of the football gods.

by CPT.Caveman on Sep 22, 2010 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Disposable webmail accounts, NTN. Check ’em out!

"Come week twelve, the difference between 0-9 and 2-7 won’t matter one bit to the slopeheads. You’ll still be the same dimwitted, chicken little a--holes you’ve always been; demanding that this person and that person get fired and that the Browns trade away future draft picks for placeholders." --- golanbatrac, 9/20/2010

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 22, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s where the disagreement lies. Let’s agree to disagree on this issue and discuss the terrible Harrison fumble call. Horrible. Just horrible.

by SupremeChief on Sep 22, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Champion, gloating over a two point win is laughable.

That being said, it was a bad officiating call. But give the Chiefs second half offense props. Though we didn’t score any TDs (need to work on that), we sustained long drives, milked the clock, converted key third down plays, protected the football, scored points off FGs, and kept the Browns offense off the field most of the time. Basically, we did everything right in the second half (aside from converting those FGs to TDs). That is how you win football games.

First half definitely belonged to the Browns, but they disappeared after that.

by SupremeChief on Sep 22, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

You guys scored 6 points in the second half, you had two nice drives and the offense looked okay on those drives, but I wouldn’t get too excited about it.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 22, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Had those six points been 14 points, I believe your viewpoint would be a tad different.

I was unimpressed with our redzone offense. As often as we had the ball in Browns territory, we had 0 TDs. That’s inexcusable. However, I was impressed with our ability to move the ball and dominate TOP. That’s something we aren’t used to seeing from a Matt Cassel-led offense.

by SupremeChief on Sep 22, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I should say move the ball and dominate TOP *in the second half*. Had we done this the entire game, I think we could have expected a different outcome.

by SupremeChief on Sep 22, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, and should we have won the Super Bowl last year, we’d be really happy.

The point is that those 6 points were not 14 points. Part of being a good offense or “dominating” on offense is scoring TDs a solid percentage of the time. As in more than 0% of the time.

Dominating time of possession ≠ dominating offensive performance.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Sep 22, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then which term would you have used to describe the Chiefs second half offense? Above average?

by SupremeChief on Sep 22, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would say they did a nice job of having sustained drives. For that half probably average to above average. They didn’t score enough to be a dominant offense, but it was good enough to win against a miserable offense from the Browns.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 22, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn’t say miserable offense. In the first half, your team had an answer for practically everything. But they just disappeared in the second half. I think a lot of it has to do with our offense staying on the field and giving our defense a rest.

by SupremeChief on Sep 23, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

really? so you are giving all the credit of the offenses terrible execution and idiotic playcalling to the good play of the Defense? the offense was miserable in the 2nd half, plain and simple.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.

I appreciate Male Beauty

Intensive Purposes? I could care less...

your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Sep 23, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who was manning the right side of the line most of the game? I was driving back from Philly and I was only able to get the 4th quarter on the radio.

by Monsters of the Midway on Sep 21, 2010 12:45 PM EDT reply actions  

It is like two different teams. 1st half Browns who look actually like a good football team (save a couple fumbles) and 2nd half Browns who we have seen for the past 11 years. Daboll is not making an adjustments at half time and it is showing.

by champion64 on Sep 21, 2010 12:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Daboll has to go. The Browns had a wildcat formation and the Chiefs called a timeout because they weren’t ready for it. So what formation do the Browns use coming out of the timeout? The Wildcat. Hmm, maybe the Chiefs would be ready for that. Why not try something else?

by Boomhauer on Sep 21, 2010 12:54 PM EDT reply actions  

You are right. I dont understand it. How much longer can the ineptness continue in the second half of games?

by champion64 on Sep 21, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seneca was a 1/2 second to a second late on a lot of his reads. I was getting really mad about this at the bar. He would hit the back of his drop, hitch, hitch again, then try to fire the ball in.

The receivers need to be seeing him release the ball as they snap their heads around coming out of their breaks. This caused us to miss at least a few catches on shorter routes that I could see real time on TV in the bar, and it’s why the pick-6 happened. You see Stuckey snap his head around, wait, wait, think about improvising, and then the ball is thrown.

It gave Flowers enough time to cover whatever route was supposed to stretch him deep, pass that receiver off, then come up and still make the pick.

We are going to make mistakes. There will be fumbles, there will be interceptions. But we must to a better job of managing the risks we do take. This play was an example of huge risk, almost no reward (if he caught it he probably would have been lit up for little to no gain). The opposite of what we want.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Sep 21, 2010 1:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Wallace did a very good job of showing why he is a career backup.

I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.

by notthatnoise on Sep 21, 2010 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think this is very good analysis about Wallace’s problem. As I said above he seems very scared that he’ll make a mistake and it makes him too tentative. In a seconds hesitation is too much with the talent and speed available on most NFL defenses. He seems to have some of the physical skills except for accuracy with the deep ball but I think his main issue is how he makes decisions with the ball in his hands.

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Sep 22, 2010 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Part of the accuracy problem with deep balls might be that he is so concerned about INTs that he is throwing it more in a place where the DB can’t catch it than in a place where our WRs can.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Sep 22, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pluto had an interview with Kosar in the PD today, and Bernie placed a lot of the blame on the wideouts running ‘go’ patterns too close to the sidelines. He said MoMass and Robo need to leave at least 5 yds between themselves and the sidelines to allow the QB a window to place the ball.

by bbstirrd on Sep 22, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

He also said that Moore and Stuckey need to catch the damn ball.

Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™

by golanbatrac on Sep 22, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

OT: So today while in my Educational Technologies class, I saw the back of someone’s shirt. It read…

L ying
B ackstabbing
J ackass

Seriously? I need to copyright my signatures now? I find it very hard to believe that it was a coincidence our initialisms match perfectly given all the other words that can fit. Ugh.

I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.

LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 21, 2010 1:35 PM EDT reply actions  

I trademarked mine.

Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™

by golanbatrac on Sep 21, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I knew you were going to say that. You’re very smart.

I just put a trade stamp on mine haha.

I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.

LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 21, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

But it’s too late..

Kill them. Kill them all.

by StuckInPa on Sep 21, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

If I wore that shirt to a Browns game I wonder if I’d get recognized.

Well probably not, most of us are here on gameday.

Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass

by Simmsinns on Sep 21, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it’s time for a new offensive strategy. Joe Thomas, Offensive Coordinator/Left Tackle. No play would dare fail if failure meant facing the wrath of Joe Thomas.

"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan

by woodsmeister on Sep 21, 2010 3:41 PM EDT reply actions  

why does everybody know daboli should of never been rehired except holmgom the so called offense genuis. idont get . the nfl is a league you call plays that the other team is fooled. not plays everyone in the world knows your going to run .why dont our recievers run come back routes.

by bleep19 on Sep 21, 2010 4:13 PM EDT reply actions  

We run come back routes a lot, they suck.

I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.

LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 21, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unless you can throw back shoulder fades and/or your right tackle holds up in pass pro.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Sep 21, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

“and/or your right tackle holds up in pass pro.”

Tell me you were able to type that without laughing.

by Monsters of the Midway on Sep 22, 2010 7:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

daboli

Is this a combination of mangini and daboll or is daboll now suddenly sicilian…that actually sounds like a tasty italian dish…daboli…

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.

I appreciate Male Beauty

Intensive Purposes? I could care less...

by bross09 on Sep 21, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Daboll is a perfect marriage for the qb’s

by champion64 on Sep 21, 2010 4:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Anyone who thinks they have a perfect marriage usually divorce.

I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.

LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 21, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, Yes Now I agree with you! Lets cut them all! Daboll first out the door

by champion64 on Sep 21, 2010 4:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Who are you agreeing with? The reply button sure doesn’t.

I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.

LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 21, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

opps sorry, with you. I think a divorce is in order. What offensive coordinator, could be had?

by champion64 on Sep 21, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

At this point in time it would have to be someone in house. I’m not going to pretend that I know enough about our offensive staff’s playcalling ability to pick one.

I can’t stand Daboll, but I think he is here as long as Mangini is. How long that will be is another debate entirely.

by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 21, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

For OC? I doubt he’d take any job other than head coach.

Kill them. Kill them all.

by StuckInPa on Sep 21, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am not sure about that. He and Holmgren have the history. It could also be Gruden’s way back in as head coach. I would have to think Gruden is getting tired of the broadcast booth. It would be a vast improvement on what the Browns have now. Do you think Mangini has a say? Mangini said earlier in the year he was glad to have Holmgren to make this a better organization. Would Mangini object to a very good offensive mind helping with this team? Just a thought.

by champion64 on Sep 21, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gruden won’t be an OC, but I could see him as the Browns HC if we need to make a change.

by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 21, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea, this was my thinking. Gruden doesn’t need a “way back in.” He’ll be handed a head coaching job soon enough.

"Football players, like prostitutes, are in the business of ruining their bodies for the pleasure of strangers."

by StuckInPa on Sep 21, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not here, I hope.

Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™

by golanbatrac on Sep 21, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wasn’t suggesting that, just saying he will get a job. I hope Mangini figure this shit out so he can stick around. I really like what he’s done. We all know what he did in NY, too.

"Football players, like prostitutes, are in the business of ruining their bodies for the pleasure of strangers."

by StuckInPa on Sep 21, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure if I am ready to give up on Mangini, but if this team keeps disappointing, he would be high on my list of replacements.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.

I appreciate Male Beauty

Intensive Purposes? I could care less...

by bross09 on Sep 21, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can they ride out a whole year with Daboll?

by champion64 on Sep 21, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can Browns fans ride out a whole year with Daboll?

"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan

by woodsmeister on Sep 21, 2010 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

not sure. at this rate, no. However, this is assuming that they ARE a package deal and you have to also get rid of Mangini. I am more lenient right now on mangini.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.

I appreciate Male Beauty

Intensive Purposes? I could care less...

by bross09 on Sep 21, 2010 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Mangini actually is the right direction for the team

by champion64 on Sep 21, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think your NUTS and anyone who wants Mangini outta look around the league. This guy wouldnt have a job if the BROWNS let him go like they should.

by Bergertime on Sep 21, 2010 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, because before he came to the shitstorm of a situation that is the cleveland browns right now, he was failing everywhere…

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.

I appreciate Male Beauty

Intensive Purposes? I could care less...

by bross09 on Sep 21, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I bet someone would hire him if he would take the step back down to DC or some sort of defensive coach.

Also, any owner with a mess of a team on his hands would be crazy not to look at Mangini as a “cleaner”.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Sep 22, 2010 3:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think Cleveland is getting a reputation for killing coaching careers. When they leave here they are always demoted a step. Head coach to coordinator, coordinator to assistant O-line coach, etc.
I think Mangini is the second fall-guy if the team continues to falter. He’ll likely get jettisoned at around 1 or 2 and 13. We’ll have an interim until the end of the season and then try and lure one of the available coaches from retirement. If the team recovers though, he’ll stick around. It may already be too late for Daboll. I think he is gone at 0 and 5 or 6.

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Sep 22, 2010 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Taking jobs a step down from head coach is universal among head coaches who do not experience success at their first stop. It’s not just something that happens to former Browns head coaches.

"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan

by woodsmeister on Sep 22, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

We didn’t kill Belichick’s career.

I need a drink.

by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 22, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it is more that losing takes coaches’ careers down a notch or two, and we haven’t had a coach who hasn’t lost. It isn’t the franchise per se.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Sep 22, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

If we need to make a change????

by Bergertime on Sep 21, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

It has been two weeks.

If the offense looks anemic in week 8, then I will change my tune. I am as frustrated as anyone, but firing Mangini right now won’t solve anything.

by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 22, 2010 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would be all for firing Daboll by week 4 if our offense continues like this

A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright

by Kimble_79 on Sep 22, 2010 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am not that down on the team. First of all, if we truly lose the next 7-8 games does it really matter if we are 2-8 or 0-10? Secondly, if you factor in the offensive futility, I would say that we have played like a top 5 defense for the first 2 games. Since we didn´t play offensive juggernauts, lets be conservative and say we are about a top 12 defense. My guess is that Mangini and Ryan will scheme their way to a couple of victories and we end up at 2-8 anyway.

Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"

by realmccoy on Sep 21, 2010 10:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Dont lump Rob Ryan in with Mangini. Robs doin a way better job than Eric

by Bergertime on Sep 21, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

how so? Isn’t Mangini the one giving orders to Rob? you can’t fault Mangini for everything wrong with the team but then not give him credit for the things going right. If you want to blame Mangini for the offense, you have to give him credit for the defense.

I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.

by notthatnoise on Sep 22, 2010 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Sep 22, 2010 3:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Logical but I don’t think Mangini is calling the shots on offense or defense. He probably helps with overall strategy going into a match up but I believe the calls made on the sidelines are Ryan and Daboll’s.

Here’s an excerpt from a recent Plain Dealer article that lends some credence to my view.

[Mangini] did blame the coaching staff for one mistake: not using the wildcat more. “I would have used it more yesterday,” said Mangini.

So I’m not blaming Mangini for the offense or giving him credit for the defense right now. However, if next week we only use the wildcat once and still have an anemic offense you have to look at the HC for not helping to game plan better.

by Monsters of the Midway on Sep 22, 2010 7:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you here. I think the actual in-game adjustments and specific play calling are mostly the coordinators duties. My point was just that you can’t blame the HC for one and not give credit for the other.

I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.

by notthatnoise on Sep 22, 2010 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

We are very much on the same page.

by Monsters of the Midway on Sep 22, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dear God I am glad they want to use the Wildcat more.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Sep 22, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I still think the KC game would have been a great time to roll it out. You’ve already got Wallace on the field for every offensive snap. The element of surprise isn’t going to get any better.

by JustBob on Sep 22, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

That is actually a really good point that I hadn’t thought of before.

by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 22, 2010 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just feel that Mangini has more to offer on the defensive side of the ball. Lets not forget he was a damn fine DC himself. I think those 2 really have a synergy that gets damn good performance with scrap heap talent. There is much more talent on the offensive side of the ball.

Now Mangini needs a strong OC and chose to stick with Daboll, and that will prolly lead to him being canned – and he will prolly be replaced by Ryan.

Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"

by realmccoy on Sep 22, 2010 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

what does prolly mean?

by Dawg Nuts on Sep 22, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Probably.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Sep 22, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mangini was never a good DC, let alone a damn fine one.

by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 22, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just check the rings.

Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"

by realmccoy on Sep 22, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

He never got a ring as a DC. He was only a DC for one year (2005, Patriots) and his defense was ranked 17th in points allowed.

Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™

by golanbatrac on Sep 22, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don´t confuse me with facts.

Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"

by realmccoy on Sep 22, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pretty close call on the defense. NFL.com shows the Browns total defense ranked at 13. They also rank the offense at 17, but I think that’s based primarily on yards/game.

by JustBob on Sep 22, 2010 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve never been a fan of ranking offenses and defenses on yards. If you’re going to rank them, I think they should be judged on points scored/allowed.

I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.

by notthatnoise on Sep 23, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Browns fans can call for a Daboll firing all they want. When it boils down to it is the Browns have one of the worst, if not the worst offensive weapons in the league. It doesn’t matter who the coordinator is, no one can do anything with no WR’s, average RB’s, and a QB who can’t make something out of nothing.

Instead of calling for Daboll’s head, you should have been calling for a WR or QB in the draft.

by The Licensed Pessimist on Sep 21, 2010 11:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Draft is in a year, we have been saying it so chill.

A Daboll firing is much more relevant and prevalent.

I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.

LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 21, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I usually disagree with your pessimistic views, but this is spot on. Harrison, MoMass, Hillis, and Robi are nice players, but who scares defenses? who is a gamebreaker or a gamechanger? maybe a guy like Momass can become one, but no one now.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.

I appreciate Male Beauty

Intensive Purposes? I could care less...

by bross09 on Sep 21, 2010 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Momass cannot become one, simple as that.

A game changer is a player who has some sort of physical advantage. Mass isn’t going to catch everything thrown to him, he’s not fast, he’s not that tall, he’s not strong at all, and he’s not a great route runner. I can’t see him developing into anything other than a place holder like Northcutt

by The Licensed Pessimist on Sep 22, 2010 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think he has enough skills to have the potential to become a gamechanger. However, I think its highly unlikely that he becomes one. I can see him becoming a very solid #2 WR in the league and I definitely see him being better than Northcutt.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.

I appreciate Male Beauty

Intensive Purposes? I could care less...

by bross09 on Sep 22, 2010 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

where has this skill been shown that you speak of? Even in his only big game last year, he didn’t make any spectacular catches or anything special. What physical skills does he have that give him potential to be a game changer?

And to all of the people saying it, how has he proven he’s better than Northcutt?

by The Licensed Pessimist on Sep 22, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know if he will be better, but as for right now, MoMass can stretch the field, something Northcutt never did.

by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 22, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Northcutt averaged 16 yards per catch at his best. Mass averages 18. And I don’t think Northcutt ever started 2 games with the browns as the #1 WR with 3 catches.

by The Licensed Pessimist on Sep 22, 2010 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Northcutt’s best season was 2004.

He had 8 games with 3 or less catches. He started 11 games that season.

by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 22, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

…and MoMass WAS forced to start games as the teams #1 WR. that means, instead of being covered by Chris Johnson, Chris Carr, Andre Goodman,or Cedric Griffin he had to face Nnamdi, Brandon Flowers, Champ Bailey, or Antoine Winfield. though some of those #2s are solid, its still not like facing a guy like Nnamdi.

I think the fact that he faced all #1 CBs and still was almost as good as northcutt at his best is something

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.

I appreciate Male Beauty

Intensive Purposes? I could care less...

your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Sep 23, 2010 3:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

His stats as a #1 dropped greatly. I’m not sure about his average, but his catches took a huge hit.

by StuckInPa on Sep 23, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

not surprising. He did get 60 yards though against Nnamdi.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.

I appreciate Male Beauty

Intensive Purposes? I could care less...

your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Sep 23, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, he is 6’2 and has a good body for a WR and is able to use his body to go up and get the ball. He has solid speed, though it isn’t game breaking. He always looks pretty fluid in his motions and was pretty elusive in college.

Obviously he hasn’t proven to be better in one year. Northcutt was in the league for a decade and you want we to compare a decade of work with one year? Comparing his rookie year to northcutt’s, and considering our QB play that was even more horrendous than couch, he is well on his way to being better. 2009 of Massaquoi would rank as the 3rd of 4th best year of Northcutts career (at worst)

Here are things that MoMass can do that northcutt never really could: Be an End Zone threat, be a threat on jump balls, beat the press consistently, go over the middle and be effective, block decently.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.

I appreciate Male Beauty

Intensive Purposes? I could care less...

your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Sep 23, 2010 2:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think he’ll ever be a number 1 guy, but come on, he’s already better than Northcutt.

I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.

by notthatnoise on Sep 22, 2010 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

@TLP I see your point but even with the merely serviceable players we have we absolutely should be beating the likes of the “Yuckaneers” and KC as they don’t really have a lot of Pro-Bowlers either. With an offense that has been bad as long as the Browns’, the OC has to take a lot of the blame.

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Sep 22, 2010 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Do you know how many damn WRs we have drafted in the first 3 rounds of the draft?

Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"

by realmccoy on Sep 22, 2010 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

none of which have anything to do with next year’s draft. you don’t pass on a great college WR in the draft next year just becasue we’ve drafted a bunch of flameout WR in the past.

by Dawg Nuts on Sep 22, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

The problem is that outside of Bradford who was gone after the first pick, there wasn’t really a good QB or WR option. A bad team forces a pick based on need when they are not the best player available. The old Browns did this every year.

Next year thankfully is supposed to be stocked with WRs and QBs.

Anyone freaking over this season’s record and offensive ineptitude needs to take a step back and start worrying about 2-3 years from now.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 22, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

http://walterfootball.com/draft2011.php
http://www.nfldraftdog.com/Mock-Drafts/2011-nfl-mock-draft.html
http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/big-ten-guru/2010/07/2011-nfl-mock-draft.html
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/lists/2011-NFL-mock-draft-042710#sport=NFL&photo=11166848

Just about every mock draft I see has us ranked anywhere from 3rd to 5th overall and taking either Luck or Mallet. I did find one that had us taking Floyd from ND (WR) and one that had us taking Heyward from OSU (DE).
Also, I couldn’t agree more with you about forcing picks. By doing that you get to where Cleveland has been for a while…a mess!

A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright

by Kimble_79 on Sep 22, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

If Luck doesn’t go #1 overall, I will be very surprised or something will have happened (injury, ridiculous character concerns coming to light, etc.).

I would love to draft that kid.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Sep 22, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Isn’t any mock drafting before the NCAA season is over pretty much an exercise in futile speculation?

"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan

by woodsmeister on Sep 22, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Mock Drafts at any point during or after the season is futile speculation

A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright

by Kimble_79 on Sep 22, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dez Bryant.

fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 22, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree on his talent, but obviously there were other things that affected where he went in the draft. Don’t know if the risk was worth it at 7 overall and I think we got a pretty darn good player at a premium position in Haden. It might set our offense back another year, but we need to be patient.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 22, 2010 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really wanted Bryant. I’m slowly coming around on Haden, but I think the position was of lower need and higher risk. I’m not upset with the pick, but Dez Bryant was grossly underrated come draft time. I think he’ll be a stud.

fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 22, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree. Bryant is a stud, but I am happy with haden.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.

I appreciate Male Beauty

Intensive Purposes? I could care less...

your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Sep 23, 2010 3:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Man, I love virtual fisticuffs.

I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.

LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 21, 2010 11:58 PM EDT reply actions  

If you see a post that you think violates the Community Agreement, flag it and move on.

No need to add 25 posts telling someone they are an “idiot” or they can’t spell.

Browns football.

by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 22, 2010 2:21 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Bernie I loved your interview in today’s PD with Pluto. Excellent insight my man, I wish you would give DBN an exclusive!

by Monsters of the Midway on Sep 22, 2010 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am just a fan, not the actual Bernie Kosar

by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 22, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha, tongue in cheek my man!

by Monsters of the Midway on Sep 22, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

You aren’t???!!!

I, for one, am devastated.

by Western Reserve on Sep 22, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for cleaning the thread up. Looks like everything happened after I was in for the night.

Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.

by Chris Pokorny on Sep 22, 2010 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’VE DONE IT!

I’VE TRAVELED BACK IN TIME! =O

I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.

LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 22, 2010 11:52 AM EDT reply actions  

tell me your secret!

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.

I appreciate Male Beauty

Intensive Purposes? I could care less...

your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Sep 22, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Took me a sec, but I laughed.

It’s not a lie if you believe it.

by Brownie's Year on Sep 22, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

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