Peyton Hillis' Dominant Effort Against Ravens Isn't Enough, as Browns Lose 24-17
| CLEVELAND BROWNS (0-3) | GAME #3 | BALTIMORE RAVENS (2-1) | |||
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| 17 | 24 |
The loss to the Baltimore Ravens this past Sunday was devastating. In a game that could have really boosted the spirits of this football team, I thought the majority of the players on our team played much better than they had the first two weeks of the season. But then, you had Eric Wright, who gave up three touchdown passes to Anquan Boldin. When the final clock showed all zeros, despite the Browns' effort, they are still nothing more than a team in the cellar of the NFL to this point.
With that said, let's get to the review of the game. We'll kick off with the goats and the game balls...
WEEK 3 - CLEVELAND BROWNS VS. BALTIMORE RAVENS (COMPLETE GAME REVIEW)
Goats of the Game:
- Eric Wright: First off, let me say that I was also extremely frustrated by the coaching staff's decision to not put somebody else on Boldin after his second touchdown reception. Wright was burned badly all game long, and whenever Joe Flacco unleashed the deep ball, I started getting that feeling that we had just given up a touchdown. Imagine the horror in my eyes when I saw our all-out blitz picked up in the fourth quarter.
After the game, Eric Mangini used the common phrase that "cornerbacks need to have a short memory," or something along those sorts. I suppose that is the philosophy that had when they kept Wright on Boldin, but it was the wrong decision. It's not like Boldin outwrestled Wright for three amazing touchdowns. This was amateur hour, where Wright made Brandon McDonald look like a Pro Bowler.
One key thing here though is that I have not lost faith in Wright's ability as a cornerback. While I think he's a bit overconfident in terms of how good he is, this is really the first time in his career that he's looked as bad as he did on Sunday; it's really kind of unprecedented. I won't start to worry until it becomes a recurring issue.
- Matt Roth: I gave him a game ball last week, but he's a goat this week for what he did on 3rd-and-4 at the end of the game. With no timeouts remaining, if the Browns would have gotten a stop, the Ravens would've punted and given the Browns a slim chance at putting together a game-tying touchdown (it also would've allowed Joshua Cribbs a chance to return a punt). Instead, Roth jumped ahead of time before the play even got off, and the five-yard penalty gave the Ravens an automatic first down. A few kneeldowns later, the game was over.
Awarding Game Balls:
- Peyton Hillis: I already praised Hillis in my Gameball post, so this just reinforces the point for the purposes of this review. Hillis dominated the Ravens' defense, pushing defenders several yards back on every carry. No one could stop him, and while the Browns are 0-3, Hillis' tough effort has actually garnered some positive support for the Browns on the national level. I wouldn't be surprised if several people pick the Browns to win in an upset over the Bengals this week because of Hillis (and the struggles of Carson Palmer).
General Thoughts:
- Impressive Game for Wallace: I was very impressed with the effort given by Seneca Wallace against the Ravens. When I say that, don't take it in context to mean that I thought he looked like Peyton Manning out there or something.
I was worried that Wallace would look terrible against the fast Raven defenders, and while Wallace did have a play or two in which he rolled to the left where the defense wanted him to go, Wallace knew to kill the play rather than force a ball into coverage. He made several impressive throws too, particularly the ones to Ben Watson and Joshua Cribbs (I know, I know, they were his only receivers).
- Massaquoi Needs Delhomme: You can tell who had chemistry together during training camp. Wallace only targeted Mohamed Massaquoi once, and when he went his direction the pass was high and one of Wallace's poorest non-deep-ball throws of the game. Massaquoi was effective in the preseason catching slants and being counted on in third down situations when Delhomme was throwing to him. With Wallace in the game, it was Cribbs that fulfilled that role instead.
- Aiken to be Cut: First off, to be fair to the newly signed Sam Aiken, I doubt he even had a chance to have one practice with the team. Nonetheless, the Browns activated him and he played on special teams. He had two penalties -- one for a hold, and another for an offsides on the kickoff (crossing before Phil Dawson kicked the ball). Aiken was only signed because Brian Robiskie was out, so I imagine he'll be cut soon.
- Davis Bangs Knee: It wasn't a very notable game for backup running back James Davis, who had 4 carries for 9 yards. I thought the Browns utilized him perfectly in substitution for Hillis, and it seemed like a few times there were holes there. The problem was, Davis had two choices -- he could've continued right through the hole on the inside like Hillis kept doing, or he could've tried to use his speed to bounce it outside.
He tried to bounce it outside a few times, but found out that the Ravens' quick defenders quickly sealed the edge off. He also got his knee taken out hard on one of those plays, which pretty much ruled him out the rest of the game. I think we'll see Jerome Harrison back this week against Cincinnati.
- First Half Offense: In the first half, the Browns did a great job. They only had three drives, but each of them took time off the clock since there weren't any three-and-outs. Their best drive was their last one of the half, going 11 plays for 83 yards and eating up 5:38 of game clock. The Browns didn't have a third down on the entire drive until they were faced with 3rd-and-goal from the 1 yard line. Peyton Hillis just walked into the end zone on the play.
- Pashos Replaces St. Clair: Earlier in the week, I commented that I had wanted to see Tony Pashos play right tackle instead of John St. Clair. With St. Clair going down to an injury early in the contest, Pashos played the majority of the game up against Terrell Suggs. While I didn't pay specific attention to how Pashos did, Hillis seemed to have success running on the right side. If anyone feels Pashos helped make a difference, let us know!
- Cribbs' Utilized More: We still aren't seeing much of the Wildcat or Cyclone, but I thought Brian Daboll timed the usage of Cribbs in the Wildcat perfectly in the third quarter. Two plays after Hillis' 63-yard gain (48-yard run + 15-yard personal foul), Cribbs was in the Wildcat facing a defense that was probably a little tired and shellshocked. Cribbs had a great 19-yard burst down to the 4-yard line.
Cribbs was also the team's leading receiver with 5 catches for 58 yards, and his ability to secure the ball with his hands and position his body continues to further legitimize him as a wide receiver. He didn't have much success in the return game thanks to being kicked away from on punts and Billy Cundiff somehow booting balls six yards deep into the end zone on kickoffs all of a sudden.
- Not Everyone Beaten by Boldin: Shifting to defense here, there was one time where Boldin was targeted deep and had the pass broken up. That was courtesy of T.J. Ward, who stuck his hand in at the right time to prevent a touchdown. Through three games, Ward has had an impact in each of them. He almost had a pick six on the first play of the game as well.
As far as Abram Elam goes, it's the exact opposite for him. I literally don't remember a single play of his through three games. Is that good or bad?
- Boldin's Final Touchdown, Prevented: On the drive where Boldin caught his third touchdown, it never should've gotten to that point. On a 2nd-and-3 from the 36-yard line, Michael Oher false started and a scuffle eventually broke out. Oher threw a punch at Robaire Smith and should have been ejected, but was only given a 15-yard penalty. That put the Ravens in a 2nd-and-18.
The Browns did a good job on second down not giving up a big play by only allowing Todd Heap a five-yard pass underneath. On the next play though, they allowed Heap open again, this time for 14 yards and a first down. Three plays later, the Ravens went ahead for good. Besides Boldin, Heap seemed to come wide open at inopportune times for the Browns' defense.
- Speaking of Inopportune Times: I didn't even think T.J. Houshmandzadeh was playing, but sure enough he picked the right time to deliver for Baltimore. On a 3rd-and-3 on the team's final drive of the game, he ran a pattern to the sideline and caught a pass for 4 yards and a fresh set of downs. I believe Wright was in on the coverage that time.
- Lack of Pressure: With the Browns missing their two best pass rushers, Shaun Rogers and Marcus Benard, it didn't help Wright and company that Joe Flacco had plenty of time to deliver accurate throws. Matt Roth and Scott Fujita did the best they could to provide a pass rush, but it wasn't enough as Flacco wasn't sacked once and never absorbed a hard hit.
- Dawson Delivers: Faith is restored in Phil Dawson after he drilled a 38-yarder in the first quarter (not that it had ever left).
- Hodges Turning it Up a Notch: While I have been nitpicking on some punts here and there from Reggie Hodges, he continues to do a pretty darn good job considering his career up to this point. He had two punts downed inside the 20 and really didn't shank any this week.
- Special Teams Coverage: The Browns' special teams coverage continues to do well. The leaders this week were Ray Ventrone and Nick Sorensen, with two tackles each. Mike Adams, Jason Trusnik, and Titus Brown each had one tackle. Brown had a nice-sounding stick on his tackle.
- No Turnovers, Similar Points: The Browns' offense did very good this week, but it feels like they should have scored more than the 17 points that they did. Granted, that is good in comparison when you consider it was the Ravens' defense, but with as dominant of a day that Hillis had, I'd usually expect to reach the 20 mark. That was a result of our fourth quarter drives, but not for the reasons you'd expect.
- Fourth Quarter Stall: The offense didn't do anything in the fourth quarter, excluding Wallace's one-yard touchdown pass on the first play of the period. On the first drive, Daboll had the right mentality: feed the ball to Hillis again. The Browns had a halfback counter called. Unfortunately, Wallace was thinking "toss" so he pitched the ball behind him. He chased the ball down to the 3-yard line, but the drive was over before it could get started. As good as the Browns were doing offensively, you can't overcome a 2nd-and-27 from the 3-yard line.
On the next drive (and the Browns' last drive), the Browns went to Hillis on the first two plays and it worked. A 3rd-and-2 was set up. Then, I didn't like what I saw. The Ravens had all of their defenders at the line of scrimmage, meaning they'd either be coming all out, or would drop a lot of them back in disguise. Either way, it was exactly the type of look that I thought Wallace would struggle with heading into the game. Sure enough, Wallace immediately threw the ball deep down the sideline when he saw the pressure, but the pass sailed way out of bounds. Given the defensive look, an adjustment should have been made to hand the ball off to Hillis.
- Run Defense is...Fine: I don't have a problem with how the Browns handled Ray Rice. He had some nice runs, but overall I've been pleased that teams aren't gashing the Browns on the ground like the Texans did to the Colts in Week 1.
- Brownies: I liked seeing Ahtyba Rubin make a play on Ray Rice when he covered him on a route...Joe Haden had a pass breakup...major props go to our offensive line for Hillis' success on the ground, and for keeping Wallace clean the whole game...the two sacks on Wallace came when he ran out of bounds.
Next up, the Browns come back home to face the Cincinnati Bengals. I said I wouldn't pick the Browns to win again until they actually won a game, but I'm considering changing my tune given Hillis' effort against Baltimore. It might depend on if our injured pass rushers return this week to take down Palmer.
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Comments
Um – “dominant” is the adjectival form, while “dominate” is the verb form.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
Shoot, thanks. My original draft had “Peyton Hillis dominates Ravens…,” but I changed it and f’ed up. Fixed now.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 28, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, while it’s becoming more accepted like stupid “txt spk”, The possessive form of Hillis should be Hillis’s, not Hillis’.
This is why the Boys’ room is different from the Boy’s room.
Sorry Chris. And where the hell is BB for all this anyways?
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 28, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think either is more correct, unless it’s a one syllable word, in which case for a possessive you have to add an “s.”
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 29, 2010 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Hillis’ is perfectly acceptable as a possessive.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
by woodsmeister on Sep 29, 2010 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions
It is now because it’s been used incorrectly so much. It never used to be.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 29, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
According to the AP Stylebook I have from college (publication date 1980), Hillis’ would be the correct usage.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
by woodsmeister on Sep 29, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t say it’s been used incorrectly now.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 29, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Did I somehow stumble upon the Proper English Grammar and Usage blog by mistake? Man, don’t let anyone tell you Browns fans are a bunch of slope-headed, drooling, nincompoops.
Brownsyup
Actually, this is the ‘Subtle Advertising in Power Rankings Subliminally Warps All Football Fans’ blog, but it’s an understandable mistake.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 29, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Bravo.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 29, 2010 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Man, don’t let anyone tell you Browns fans are a bunch of slope-headed, drooling, nincompoops.
Only on Sundays.
by Western Reserve on Sep 29, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Like StuckInPa said, both are probably fine. When it comes to names, I was taught to use an apostrophe for names that end with an “s,” like “This is Chris’ article.” I’ll continue to write that way since I’m used to it.
Carry on everyone, cease the grammar talk here :p
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 29, 2010 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I was taught the same way and still do it. Horay S-apostrophe.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 29, 2010 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Good summary, Chris. The one thing I haven’t seen discussed much was T.J. Ward’s missing a sure pick 6 on the first play of the game. He did everything right except catch the ball, but it was a blown opportunity to set the tone for the game. Imagine the Browns getting 7 at that point, and how it might have affected the remainder of the game, including shaking Flacco’s confidence after his horrible game last week with Cincinnati. The Browns aren’t good enough to squander that type of opportunity, and I thought it was a game-changing error. I really like Ward, but that was a pick he should have made.
Its a cliche, but making those ints is what separates winners and losers.
Still gotta love Ward though. Definitely a great addition to build around.
by HenryDawg on Sep 28, 2010 11:46 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That is a catch that a DB has to make.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Too bad he’s a DB…
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 28, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not buying that excuse, Palamalu and Reed make those TDs every day of the week. If we plan to compete we have to as well.
by HenryDawg on Sep 29, 2010 11:22 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He’s a rookie playing in his 3rd game. Jeez, give the guy a little time. He’s played outstandingly well for being so young.
My thoughts exactly as soon as I read this.
"The road to Easy Street goes through the sewer."--John Madden
Well, my point was that I like Ward and think he’s going to be an excellent player. But nonetheless, I thought that was a game-changing play. True, he’s a rookie, but he is a professional, and I believe that a professional can reasonably be expected to catch a ball which was right in his hands – not requiring an extraordinary effort, nor a dive, nor a one-handed grab. It was right to him. If you read my original post I didn’t criticize him, just observed that the play deserved more discussion. If you disagree, fine. It’s just my opinion.
I believe that a professional can reasonably be expected to catch a ball which was right in his hands
Braylon Edwards would like a word with you.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 29, 2010 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I agree with you. My response was more to HenryDawg. You have to remember the kids still trying to remember plays and get used to the speed of the NFL and how quickly plays develop. To be performing at his level of play this early is outstanding. Give him a few more games to get more comfortable and that play will be a pick 6 every time, IMO
"The road to Easy Street goes through the sewer."--John Madden
I love Ward, I think he is playing great, I am so glad he is a Brown, but the fact remains that Reed and Palamalu were making those plays as rookies and we need to as well.
If this team is ever going to get better we’ll stop with the loser talk about rookies and experience and just start making the plays when they need to be made.
I’m so tired of the excuse making on this site, which seems directly reflective of our team.
I rarely see excuse making on this site. It’s usually pretty down to Earth.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 29, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
This is probably excuse making, but you just mentioned two of the top safeties in the league and probable hall of famers. I think it’s a bit naive to demand that type of play from any player.
Yeah it would be great to look back and say wow, Ward produced at Reed Polamalu level his rookie year, but I don’t really think it’s fair to go in expecting that from him.
Also
YEAR TEAM G TOT SOLO AST PD SACK FF REC INT YDS TD
2002 BAL 16 85 71 14 12 1.0 0 0 5 167 0
2003 BAL 16 71 59 12 16 1.0 1 0 7 132 1
2004 BAL 16 76 62 14 17 2.0 3 0 9 358 1
YEAR TEAM G TOT SOLO AST PD SACK FF REC INT YDS TD
2003 PIT 16 38 30 8 4 2.0 1 0 0 0 0
2004 PIT 16 96 67 29 15 1.0 1 0 5 58 1
2005 PIT 16 91 73 18 8 3.0 1 0 2 42 0
YEAR TEAM G TOT SOLO AST PD SACK FF REC INT YDS TD
2010 CLE 3 27 22 5 1 0.0 1 0 0 0 0
Also, although we can count it happening, but Ward is on pace to shatter their tackle totals and Troy wasn’t exactly an interception machine his first year in the league though Reed did have 5 interceptions but no tds. However, Ward has a forced fumble and neither of those two players had that their first year in the league, when they were rookies.
So can we at least give Ward until the bye week before we bring out the hyperbole about how all these other players, certified studs at that, were making all these amazing plays as rookies?
Also, I thought it was a mistake since Reed has all of 6 tds in his 9 year career and Troy has 1 in 8 seasons. Which obviously is less than 1 per year for both, so it’s not really debatable that either player is making anything a td every year, let alone every week.
Sorry for the long excuse.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
I am shocked that Polamalalululu didn’t have an INT his rookie season.
He seems to be an INT magnet.
Hopefully this happens for Ward.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 30, 2010 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
You’re exactly right. Complaining that a rookie, or any player, isn’t playing on the level of a Hall-of-Famer player is completely unfair. Ward doesn’t need to be Reed or Polamualu to be a good player.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2010 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions
very true … but he still should have caught the pass and walked into the end zone.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 30, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, he should have.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
A pass rush will be crucial to stopping Cincy. Wright better get his act together this week or Ryan better make some adjustments, either way that 3 touchdown crap is beat. Wright didn’t even get close on 2 of the 3 passes and just looked beat down and lost all game. Seneca is looking a little better probably just in time to get benched for Delhomme.
by browndawgbacker on Sep 28, 2010 11:45 AM EDT reply actions
Do we still only have 3 CBs?
Overall the Browns best game of the year minus 1 player. Someone needs to explain how a pro CB let’s a rec get that open so many times. I mean Wright wasn’t even close to covering 81 all game.
Also the coaches need to explain why he wasn’t helped after getting burned so many times.
by HenryDawg on Sep 28, 2010 11:49 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
yes they do need to explain. But they won’t.
some accountability would be nice.
Don’t stick up for a douche who gets scored on three times.
by discoinferno083 on Sep 28, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
we technically have 4, but the 4th is an undrafted FA from 2007 who has bounced around practice squads and has only been active for 8 games in his career (6 last year and 2 this year)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Mike Adams plays a lot of corner, he could easily be listed as that position instead of safety.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Am I the only one who disagreed with punting on 4th and 2 with about 5 minutes left? I think it was a huge mistake. At least try to pick up the first down – punt it away, let the Ravens kill the clock. Go for in and get it, keep driving. Go for it and miss, Ravens ice it. They blew a chance to keep the ball and try to tie the game.
Columbus til I die, Columbus til I die. I know I am, I swear I am, Columbus til I die!
"Turner, at midcourt...inside it, at the buzzer, GOT IT!!!!"
We're the Big Ten, who the F@*# are YOU??!?!?!
by Andrew Tolliver on Sep 28, 2010 11:58 AM EDT reply actions
If we had done it with a minute or two less, then I probably would’ve made a bigger stink about it. However, we had a scenario in which based on the clock, as long as we prevented two first downs on third down, we would’ve gotten the ball back. We just failed.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 28, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
We just failed.
that’s a good recap in itself.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 28, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, to go along with what Chris said, if there were only 2 minutes left, I would have been mad. but with something like 5 minutes to go, I have no trouble trusting our defense there. I am much more upset about the deep ball on 3rd and 2.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
interestingly, pluto said on his podcast today that mangini told the press that seneca changed the 3rd and 2 play at the line. if so, that was a pretty shitty change.
also, correct me if i’m wrong, but i don’t think hillis was even on the field for that play, so chris’ plea for (which i generally agree with) handing the ball to hillis doesn’t work. what it does is raise a larger question of the coaches: what the f*ck was hillis doing on the sideline for the biggest play of the game?
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d like to think he was but I’m not entirely sure myself.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 28, 2010 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought it was davis and like someone said somewhere else he was trying to get into the flat and got jammed and then wallace tried to throw down the sideline
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
Yea I’m extremely tired of that sideline lass going out of bounds. You gotta let someone majesty a play on it.
by The naome40 on Sep 29, 2010 5:40 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Man you hit the nail on the head,we should have run that ball down their throats,like we did the whole game. They had no answer. We had them on the ropes and let em go. Very poor play calling
GO BROWNS
by dawginhouston on Sep 29, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, we are definitely a team that punts according to the traditional, conservative rules.
I’ve found that over the last few years more and more teams are going for it on 4th and short and being successful, both in college and the pros. It’s happened against the browns many times…I wish the team would recognize that sometimes, when you are not a good team and you have a better team on the ‘ropes,’ you gotta go in for the kill. I mean, time and time again we see a good defensive effort, but only to have the opposing team eventually drive the field in the final quarter to score and go ahead while our offense remains moribund after halftime.
As for this particular call I would have gone for it…knowing our second half M.O. that’s so seemingly consistent. I would not have had faith that we could have prevented Baltimore from getting first downs.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 28, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought this might have changed based on the number of times they went for it on 4th down in the pre-season.
by Monsters of the Midway on Sep 28, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
a lot of those times we went for it, it wasn’t about actually being aggressive and trying to get more points, it was more seeing how the team could play on 4th down. there were a couple at the St. Louis game that I went to. both of them would have been easy field goals but it made sense to go for it because the preseason is there to figure out what a team can do and we already know that dawson can kick. wins and points don’t matter much and don’t count for anything in the preseason.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I would have liked for them to go for it there as well, but the decision to punt was sound.
by Western Reserve on Sep 28, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the decision to throw that terrible pass on third down forced us to put on fourth, and that part was unsound. With the way Hillis was running, we obviously should have pounded him into the line twice.
There is no situation in which:
A) Seneca Wallace should be throwing a fade route (because he clearly can’t do it)
B) Josh Cribbs should be on the receiving end of a fade route
And yet we tried it on third down.
Actually, now that I think about it some more, even if we had stopped the Ravens, there is no way Seneca Wallace is ever going to lead our offense on a game-winning two-minute drill. With that in mind, we definitely should have gone for it, since our best hope for scoring was a drive that emphasized the running game.
I agree, the third down play call was awful. We were winning battles in the trenches against one of the most physical football teams, and we should have went straight at them.
by Western Reserve on Sep 28, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Seneca was 17-23 before that pass. Was it that unreasonable to think he’d complete a pass for 2 yards?
I think it is much more reasonable to believe we pick up the first down and keep the drive alive by being able to gain two yards in two downs. I feel in that situation, with five or so minutes left in the fourth quarter, you continue to play the type of football that kept you in the game to that point.
And maybe this is a bit emotional: But I really just wanted to see us pound the ball against the Baltimore Ravens. I feel it’s what we’ve been longing for, to be as physical as the Pittsburghs and Baltimores of the world, and I felt that we were there on Sunday.
by Western Reserve on Sep 28, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
If you just wanted to see us pound the Ravens, that’s one thing. But it’s ridiculous to call the play call awful. While they couldn’t stop the run, they also couldn’t stop the short pass, and they packed the box on that short 3rd down.
exactly. they packed the box and seneca panicked. I wouldn’t mind the run or the short pass. both were legitimate options. its just idiotic to throw that fade.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I would have to see the play to see what other routes there were, but I guess I would fault seneca for the throw/decision more than the play call if there were other available routes. I can see the rationale behind calling a pass there.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
The play they ran was awful. If that was the play that was called, it was an awful call. I don’t really give a damn if the Ravens stacked the box. Stick Jumbo in there and ram it down their frickin’ throats. Why? Because this is what we’ve been built to do. It’s one of our few mismatches — against anyone.
Now, a well executed short pass, like the one thrown to Watson for the score, would have been acceptable. But still, I, personally, would have elected to pound it.
Lastly, if you concede they couldn’t stop the run, you always run there — less room for error on our part, i.e. Seneca throwing an erratic pass out of bounds.
by Western Reserve on Sep 28, 2010 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t mind seneca at QB. this is why he isn’t anything more than an adequate stopgap. I don’t think he can make the plays to win a game (though he has shown that he usually won’t lose the game)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I don’t mind him at QB either. Just sayin, he’s not going to lead a game-winning drive in the fourth quarter.
I agree. (my 3rd sentence was agreeing with this basic premise you made)
He also probably won’t throw the key INT at the opportune time in the 4th quarter that gives the other team the lead and loses us the game.
Its find if he is like this because hopefully we lean more on our running game anyways.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
He also probably won’t throw the key INT at the opportune time in the 4th quarter that gives the other team the lead and loses us the game
that’s exactly what he did in 1 out of his 2 starts.
I don’t think game managers win super bowls any more.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree. you would have to be in the perfect situation like Dilfer was with one of the best defenses in history (up there with the ’85 bears), a running back combo that netted 2,000 yards, and a HOF Tight End.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Depends on your opinion of a guy like Roethlisberger. Heck, Sanchez got pretty darn close just last year.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
I shouldn’t say they don’t ever win super bowls, but I would say it’s becoming rarer and rarer.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 29, 2010 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Ben is more than just a game manager. He can make plays when he needs to and he’s always near the top of the rankings for YPA. He’s not an elite QB like some Steelers fans think but he’s still pretty good.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 29, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, combination of the fact that he was something of a game manager as a rookie, and isn’t much more than that now.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
He’s much more than a game manager.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 29, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
even his rookie year, he had an excellent YPA of 8.2 and in fact led the league in YPA.
He did benefit however from the fact that he had Randle El who could stretch the Field, Hines in his prime, and Willie Parker who kept the defense busy so they didn’t focus as much on him.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Randel El and Willie Parker weren’t that good. Every great QB has playmakers on his team; that’s part of what makes him a great QB.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 29, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think though that Big ben was THAT good coming out. Maybe Randle El and Parker weren’t amazing, but the Steelers had enough in the D and running game where Big Ben didn’t have to pass for 3,000 yards. a guy like Parker can open up the deep ball for a QB.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
That’s nice, but none of that has anything to do with your previous comment nor my reply.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2010 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I said he benefitted from weapons that helped take the pressure off of him. then I said it again in different wording that he didn’t have to throw the ball a lot. same argument, different wording and approach. it does have to do with my previous comment.
It also has to do with your reply because you are trying to point out that he didn’t have great weapons around him (which I disagree with) and that every QB coming in has great playmakers they can rely on (which isn’t always true) so that willie parker did not have a significant effect on Big Ben’s rookie year (which I find ridiculous)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
maybe he hasn’t lost games in the past, but out of only two games he has started for us this season, he lost one. 50% of his starts for us, he was responsible for a loss. i know this is an extremely small sample size, but it’s all we have to go on, and the pick 6 to cost us against KC was absolutely horrendous.
bottom line: it’ll be nice to have Jake back.
jake essentially threw a pick 6 in the TB game (barber took the ball back to the 3) that was an awfully important part of costing us that game. that was equally horrendous to the pick 6 seneca threw against KC.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 29, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
1. “essentially” doesn’t mean “actually did.”
2. Jake’s interception was clearly not as bad as Seneca’s was, not even close.
I think you are right. Wallace is not the quarterback I want under center,he’s just not good enough.
by dawginhouston on Sep 29, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
They were both horrible passes that should never have been thrown.
Delhomme’s was worse because it was right before half and it allowed the Bucs back into a game that the Browns were totally dominating. Jake’s INT totally derailed the offense, (Hillis’ fumbles didn’t help either), and allowed the Bucs to go into half on a high note.
After Delhomme’s INT:
Drive 1: Fumble
Drive 2: 3 & out
Drive 3: 3 & out
Drive 4: 3 & out
Drive 5: 3 & out
Drive 6: INT
Drive 7: 1 First down, loss on downs
Drive 8: End of game
Don’t forget that Delhomme’s TD pass should have been an INT if it was thrown against an actual NFL safety.
I trust Wallace more.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 29, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
wasn’t delhomme’s INT against Rhonde Barber?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
After Delhomme’sINTInjury:
Drive 1: Fumble
Drive 2: 3 & out
Drive 3: 3 & out
Drive 4: 3 & out
Drive 5: 3 & out
Drive 6: INT
Drive 7: 1 First down, loss on downs
Drive 8: End of game
Fixed.
"And the 2010 National League Central Division Champs are the Cincinnati Reds!" -- Marty Brennaman
Then he shouldn’t have been in the game if he couldn’t play his position.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 29, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Because it’s just so easy to swap a QB out of a game and be just fine.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 29, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn’t that what a back-up QB is for?
That is a poor excuse for letting a player hurt the team with poor play.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 29, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
No, I was thinking your line was a poor excuse.
I’d much rather take Peyton Manning with a slightly gimped ankle than a 100% Painter.
My thing is, is that you can’t replace the clear leader of the team with someone who is worse at the position, despite being at a better situation physically.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 29, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
If we had a Peyton Manning I would agree.
Too bad we have Jake Delhomme. If we want to use the ankle as the reason Delhomme played horrendous in the second half, then he should have been benched.
My thing is, is that you can’t replace the clear leader of the team with someone who is worse at the position, despite being at a better situation physically.
We had our best offensive game with the “worse” player at QB against a top 5 defense.
Maybe Wallace isn’t the “worse” player.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 30, 2010 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
That QB largely did crap and until Delhomme is put into the same capacity, it’s a bad example.
Your argument wasn’t based as QB specific though, it was based as a general assumption. So, from your original statement, you’d be clamoring for Painter. I wholeheartedly disagree with your general assumption of this situation.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 30, 2010 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Does every discussion on here boil down to semantics?
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 30, 2010 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
It depends on what you mean by ‘discussion’.
"And the 2010 National League Central Division Champs are the Cincinnati Reds!" -- Marty Brennaman
by golanbatrac on Sep 30, 2010 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
1. you’re being willfully obtuse. of course the effect of jake throwing that barber int was the same as wallace’s pick 6.
2. false. at least there was a brown who could legitimately have been said to have a chance at the ball w/ wallace. not so w/ jake. at any rate, they were at least equally bad.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 29, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
http://www.imdb.com/video/hulu/vi4289135129/
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
exactly. its an extremely small sample size. if we are to judge anything between the 2 QBs, it should be with past performance. Seneca throughout his performance in seattle, was able to limit INTs, especially at inopportune times. He went a stretch of 184 consecutive passes (all while starting) where he didn’t throw a pick.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
From what Mangini was saying Wallace had receivers running underneath routes as well—so basically it was Seneca’s call to throw the fade.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 29, 2010 3:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I would have been okay going for it, if we had run the ball on third down.
The deep pass on 3rd, as Chris mentioned, was a horrendous call.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Was there nobody running a shorter route on that play? Did we have everyone going deep? Are you saying Wallace had no choice but to throw deep?
Don’t have the play in front of me, but even if that was true, I like Hillis getting two yards better than I like Wallace passing to anyone.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Like I said above, Wallace was 18-23. No reason to doubt him on that play. It might be a call some people don’t like, but it wasn’t a “bad” play call.
yes. it was a bad decision by wallace. I don’t have the tape in front of me so I don’t know if the D backed up after loading up the box, but even with hillis in the game, its risky to try to do that with the defense loading up the box. Like I did say below (which probably would have been better as a response to your previous comment), watson had a route that would have just gotten the first down.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
The Ravens couldn’t stop Hillis. It was 2 yards.
Why throw a deep ball? Again, I’m not blaming the loss on the call, but it sure as hell didn’t help.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 29, 2010 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I remember that watson was running a short route. I don’t know how many yards, but it was definitely enough to get the first. I would have to go back to see what route he was running though. Watson was also at least as open as cribbs…maybe even more open (because if I remember correctly, the coverage against cribbs was pretty tight)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I loved this game. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I actually cried just a little bit when we lost- I wasn’t such a big fan of that part of the game.
But considering the Bengals only scored 15 points with 170 some passing yards and only around 80 rushing yards against the Ravens. The Jets had some fairly comparable numbers and only scored 9 points. Both of those teams had their starting QB and didn’t score a touchdown. We scored 2 and doubled their rushing totals. The Ravens made our defense Eric Wright look like a fool, but our offense Peyton Hillis/ O-Line made the Ravens defense look like fools. I think that’s pretty impressive and encouraging.
I also liked the fact that we had 8 penalties and it didn’t demolish our chances. We were in the game the for 4 quarters despite Eric Wright having his worst game at the worst possible time AND having a lot of penalties.
Penalties, Eric Wright allowing 3 TDs, Rogers and Benard being injured, the Browns being the Browns… NOBODY even thought this game would be CLOSE. But we played well the whole game and we even controlled the game at times against a very good Ravens team. Eric Wright is not always going to play like he did this week, Rogers and Benard will be back, and I am guessing that with as much of a stickler Mangini is for discipline we won’t always have so many penalties. I might be looking through rose-colored lenses, but I’m really optimistic after this week. Is it possible the Browns are on the verge of being close to a dangerous team?
1. I’m still sick of these moral victories. We’re 0-3.
2. any team in the NFL that has a complete lack of pass rush is likely to lose. It’s really unacceptable. Why else did we keep those 19,000 lbs on the roster?
3. interesting point about the lack of 3 and outs. that’s something that’s gotten better. But i feel our defense is still solid… but no pass rush, and (seemingly) more penalities than last year. strange.
4. Radio made it seem like Oher may have moved first on Roth’s penalty. Any possibility? seems like Oher gets away with things.
by discoinferno083 on Sep 28, 2010 2:02 PM EDT reply actions
Roth was on the other side of the line. Roth jumped, and then Oher moved, then the defender next to Oher crossed. At least that’s how I thought it went down.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 28, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
if roth jumped, but technically jump offsides until after oher moved, shouldn’t it be a false start? it really doesn’t matter because roth shouldn’t have jumped.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
if roth jumped, but technically jump offsides until after oher moved
Can you rephrase that in another way so I can answer your question?
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 28, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
if roth jumped, but wasn’t ‘offsides’ until after oher moved.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Roth was way over the line before anyone on baltimore moved.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
The old rule was you could be in the other teams backfield until the ball was snapped, then it was changed that is you touched the OL you were offsides, now if you just make the OL jump its offsides. I don’t like this rule. It should go back to if you touch the OL. This penalty was especially brutal because it meant we had zero chance to win the game
by HenryDawg on Sep 29, 2010 11:33 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
well, it’s only offsides if you make them jump by crossing the line. as long as you’re on your side of the ball, anything is legit.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 30, 2010 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Right.
An example would be a rush from an LB that is supposed to provoke a move.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 30, 2010 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
1. I’m still sick of these moral victories. We’re 0-3.
To me this would have been ok to classify as a ‘moral victory’ had we won the previous games…or at least one of them. At this point it’s simply another fail.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 28, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice write up Chris. I had forgotten about Rubin making that play on Ray Rice. I remember thinking, nice play and then was even more surprised when I saw Rubin pop up. This guy could be Savage’s best pick up.
Flacco wasn’t sacked once and never absorbed a hard hit.
Fujita actually laid a nice hit on Flacco. He got behind Flacco and then away from the lineman and crushed him from behind. Unfortunately that’s the only pressure I really recall.
by Monsters of the Midway on Sep 28, 2010 2:09 PM EDT reply actions
I hope Holmgren realizes that we just don’t have the talent to win these games. I’d really like to keep the coaching staff around, and one more draft could make all the difference. I know that train of thought is getting old, but we haven’t had a GM like Heckert before.
Heckert was the best offseason pickup IMO.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
ESPN has Cleveland ranked 30th, behind the 49ers, Jags, Raiders, and Panthers. They have the Ravens ranked 8th. I don’t care if any of those teams are 1-2, we’re better than all of them.
I agree 100%. We damn near beat that 8th ranked team, and barely lost our other games. Not sure why we are suddenly ranked below the teams you mention.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
Because we were supposed to be losing and those other teams were supposed to be winning some games.
Frankly, power ratings of any kind are pretty much always worthless and prove nothing, and ESPN opinion is pretty much to fawn over East Coast teams and winning franchises and ignore the remainder.
Nothing to see here. Please move along. When they’re not actually showing games, ESPN can pretty much be safely ignored by intelligent fans.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
by woodsmeister on Sep 28, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Not only that, but the Browns will not be making any television appearances on ESPN so they need invest nothing in keeping Browns fans happy or interested with their coverage.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
by woodsmeister on Sep 28, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you really think that determines their power rankings? They keep the Browns low because they’re not going to be on TV so they don’t need to make thier fans happy? Come on, that seems pretty far-fetched. I really doubt that the writers who vote for the rankings are thinking of any of this when they’re making their selections. The Browns are ranked 30th because they’re 0-3 and weren’t expected to be good before the season began, and arguing about whether they should really be 28th or 29th instead seems rather pointless.
As I said below, ESPN does plenty of things wrong but we don’t need to make up things that aren’t true just to criticize them for.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 28, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
No offense, but you are extremely naive about the world of advertising.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 28, 2010 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
No, I’m not. If you really think a Browns fan will decide whether or not to watch ESPN based on if the team is 26th or 30th in their current power rankings then you are extremely delusional.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 28, 2010 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
No, you’re naive. I’m taking a whole class strictly on advertising. You have no clue what your subconscious picks up on.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 28, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow, did you hear that BB? He’s taking a class! He must know what he’s talking about!
by Chemo on Sep 29, 2010 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I want you to watch these.
This one is more biased and she kind of shoves it down your face but it’s still good info. It’s in parts, I doubt you’ll care though.
This one is much better and filled with much more helpful info personally.
So, yeah. Don’t call me delusional. You see advertisements everywhere. Hell, they’re in Madden now, it’s ridiculous. Don’t think the subtle things of an article can’t persuade somebody to do something. De Beers used to pay movies to add diamond conversations into the script. Oh yeah.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 28, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Though Naomi Klein sometimes annoys me, good stuff.
I agree. Though i am not completely anti-globalization and anti-advertising as someone like klein, it has gotten ridiculous. Its so weird to see ads in madden (but it just makes it more realistic in a way…because ads are everywhere).
Worse than the De Beers thing is some of the examples of media and film that is supposed to be ‘entertainment’ but in essence is one big advertisement.
I mean, we can just point to the movie transformers for this which has dozens of product placements. Lady gaga’s telephone video takes the cake. in a 10 minute video, there are close to 15 different product placements.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Boy, a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
SB, I’ve read No Logo. I was a communications major back in the day (among other things). I took advertising classes. And yeah, advertising is everywhere. But it has nothing to do with ESPN’s NFL power rankings. The Browns are ranked low because we keep losing.
By the way, the Raiders and Panthers don’t appear on ESPN this season either.
That was all more on the part that he was being too naive about it.
Kinda did my patented subject switcharoo on him.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 29, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not being naive. Bringing up a subject that has nothing to do with what I’m talking about doesn’t make me naive.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 29, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
All of that is nice, but it has nothing to do with my point on the ESPN power rankings.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 29, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
to your point, cnnsi has the browns ranked 31st, and they aren’t airing any games…
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 29, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
No – but I am saying that unless the Browns force anybody to pay attention to them by, I don’t know, winning a few games, they will always be underrated because the only people who will see them play are those in Cleveland and the other market, and those with Direct TV.
I’m also saying that ESPN skews heavily towards covering the better teams and the East Coast teams, and I think that affects their power rankings. The writers have seen those teams play. They’ve seen “highlights” of the Browns games. I don’t think most of the writers ranking the Browns at #30 have actually seen the Browns play.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
by woodsmeister on Sep 29, 2010 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Okay. But at the same time, we probably should win a few football games.
by Western Reserve on Sep 29, 2010 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
So basically what you’re saying is that the ESPN Power Rankings in a sense are like the NCAA Polls.
(Work with me here)
In a sense, teams that get more airtime nationally are better ranked than teams that play at odd hours or in small market venues. Lets use for the sake of argument, over the span of the past 3 yrs, Navy and Michigan.
They might have seen the better teams play more but I don’t think it has anything to do with what coast they’re from. The voters for those rankings are all over the country.
And I don’t really know how the Browns would be underrated when we’re 0-3. I think we’re rated just about where we belong.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 29, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed. we are ranked low because we haven’t won a game. someone can try to argue that we are higher or lower than other winless teams, but thats all semantics arguing about power rankings that are at times, somewhat arbitrary at this point in the year.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Maybe not as granular as power rankings, but ESPN definitely promotes what it is going to show. I don’t remember ever seeing Premier League highlights on SportsCenter until a few months before they carried FIFA.
by HenryDawg on Sep 29, 2010 11:55 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Of course they promote what they’re going to show, just like any other TV network which relies on viewers for revenue. But that has nothing to do with their power rankings, which is my point.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 29, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
But “journalists” are supposed to report sports objectively. SportsCenter is supposed to be the pinnacle of sports journalism….I’m just saying…
Entertatinment and Sports Programming Network.
I’m not a big fan of ESPN, but it does do both and it is a network.
I’ve never heard anyone refer to SportsCenter as the pinnacle of sports journalism. It’s a highlight show, which is what it does, show highlights of sporting events, over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
by Villeslgr on Sep 29, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This. from the beginning, entertainment was first.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
No what matter whether you like or dislike ESPN, these arguments seems to suggest entertainment needs to be of poor quality.
by Western Reserve on Sep 30, 2010 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Who said (or suggested) that the entertainment needs to be of poor quality?
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2010 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s what I inferred from Villeslgr’s and Bross’s* comments above that seemed to suggest, basically, “Yeah, ESPN it’s great, i.e. not of superb quality, but, hey, it’s only entertainment, right?”
*Oh Lord, an apostrophe crisis!
by Western Reserve on Sep 30, 2010 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
It was never meant to be pulitzer prize winning journalism. from the beginning, it combined sports journalism, with mass media and entertainment. THAT is the point. We are not conceding that ‘hey, its only entertainment, right?’ We are saying that it was never designed to be the pinnacle of sports journalism, just the pinnacle of sports entertainment.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Not my comments.
I was just stating that it’s entertainment not journalism.
I think those two have different expectations.
I wasn’t commenting on the quality of ESPN’s entertainment just saying that I didn’t think they were in the business of journalism.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
Okay, so you were referring to ‘entertainment’ as a medium.
by Western Reserve on Sep 30, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Nobody said that Sportscenter is the pinnacle of sports journalism. It’s meant to show highlights and scores, not reports stories that would be considered journalism. Shows like Outside the Lines might be considered journalism but certainly not Sportscenter.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2010 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions
When they’re not actually showing games, ESPN can pretty much be safely ignored by intelligent fans.
+5,000
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2010 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
This.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 29, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
And everyone in the day loved Standard Oil, too. Point is, I don’t think there is much choice. ESPN doesn’t really have a cable sports competitor that can really stand on its own two feet. So, yeah, they are huge. But where else are you going go?
by Western Reserve on Sep 29, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree. I wish there was a sports competitor. I really like Sports Illustrated and their writers for their magazine and website much better than for ESPN Mag and ESPN.com.
I remember there used to be CNNSI and I wish that was back on the air. I was reading about and it pretty much died because it couldn’t find viewers between Fox Sports Net and ESPNNews, both of which had parent companies with more leverage with cable operators.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I miss the Sporting News.
"And the 2010 National League Central Division Champs are the Cincinnati Reds!" -- Marty Brennaman
And by ‘The Sporting News’ I mean the fantastic weekly newspaper they used to publish, not the god awful magazine they publish now.
"And the 2010 National League Central Division Champs are the Cincinnati Reds!" -- Marty Brennaman
That’s an unfair generaliztion. There are many, many people who work for ESPN is many formats — TV, radio, online, etc. As with anything else, there are good ones and bad ones. But to call everyone associated with ESPN “complete garbage” is unfair.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 29, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
ESPN has allowed themselves to be considered complete garbage then.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 29, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
It was a bit hyperbolic. I wasn’t trying to equate every, singe employee of ESPN with a piece of trash. There are a few decent ones, sure. But you practically have to have ADD to watch SportsCenter anymore, and their content generally amounts to soap operas for men.
They still do a fair enough job of covering live sports as they committed long ago to putting large sums down to secure rights to sports programming to build their brand.
by Western Reserve on Sep 29, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
This. Mike and Mike is great entertainment. Their production for live sporting events is the best ever, and nobody comes close. Jaws film breakdowns taught me a ton about football years ago. Gruden’s sit downs with QBs are amazing. Adam Shefter is a darn good reporter. And that’s just their NFL coverage. They got some good to great programming and individual talent in College football, college basketball, and NBA as well.
Unfortunately, their baseball analysts/reporters could use a major makeover.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
Does ESPN sign your paycheck? Kidding aside, I guess I just disagree. I really don’t find much besides live sporting events to be tolerable — and that’s mainly because the event at hand is the entertainment in and of itself. I’m not sure I’d characterize any of their programming as “great.”
Their production for live sporting events is the best ever, and nobody comes close.
How so? I’ve never viewed a game on CBS, NBC, FOX or elsewhere and thought the broadcast was somehow an inferior product to something on ESPN (or ABC) in any way, shape or form.
by Western Reserve on Sep 29, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I think NBC is far and away better than any of the others.
"And the 2010 National League Central Division Champs are the Cincinnati Reds!" -- Marty Brennaman
Why’s that? Is it because you like the commentators or what?
by Western Reserve on Sep 29, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I like their presentation better personally. That includes pre – game, camera angles during, graphics, sports bar placement, commentating (Except for Collinsworth) Halftime and post game.
Dungy kind of annoys me though.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 29, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Dungy is a schmuck.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 30, 2010 3:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I like Michaels and Collinsworth and Costas and Patrick and Harrison and Kramer and even Peter King. Tony Dungy is like a cross-eyed deer in headlights, but otherwise, the talent is top-notch across the board.
The NBC guys don’t talk over one another.They spend more time talking football and less time trying to be funny.
I can’t understand half of what Shannon ‘mushmouth’ Sharpe says. What’s worse, they let him interview people.
FOX has Bradshaw. CBS has Cowher. NBC fired Bettis.
By virtue of their timeslot, NBC’s pregame has an entire days worth of highlights to run through. CBS and FOX have injury reports, speculation, and a half dozen taped segments about players on the major market teams.
NBC is in High Definition and is available over the air where I live. CBS and FOX are supposed to be in High Definition, but look horrible in comparison to NBC. ESPN isn’t on basic cable, therefore MNF doesn’t exist.
I haven’t seen a Monday Night game since the Browns beat the Giants in ‘08, but I’m assuming Chris Berman is still involved in some capacity in ESPNs coverage of the NFL. I’ll dance a jig the day that loudmouthed fatass gets the massive coronary he’s earned.
Tony Kornheiser is nearly as annoying as Berman, and Turico looks like the walrus in the Sweet Pickles children’s books.
Faith Hills legs >>>> Hank Williams Jr’s stupid beard / FOX’s inexplicable robots
"And the 2010 National League Central Division Champs are the Cincinnati Reds!" -- Marty Brennaman
by golanbatrac on Sep 29, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Kornheiser got the boot years ago.
Why do you think we always talk about Gruden on MNF?
Also, Williams Jr.’s intro is so god damn annoying.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 30, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
And wtf is with those stupid ass robots?
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 30, 2010 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ll have you know my daughter loves those robots. Of course, she’s 5.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 30, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with most of this. I think if you got ESPN and watched it more recently, you’d agree with me, that at least they are comparable to NBC. Berman isn’t as big a part of the production— and I’m talking less about pre-game stuff anyway.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 30, 2010 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I can’t focus when Berman is on camera.
He flips his hands and they are flying all over the place.
Totally distracting.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 30, 2010 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
His voice is disgusting. Especially when he gets on a rant. Ughh.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 30, 2010 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
How can you like him? I didn’t think anybody did.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2010 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Coming from someone who likes Collinsworth? MEH
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 1, 2010 2:42 AM EDT up reply actions
collinsworth is arguably the best color guy in all of sports.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 1, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
A lot of guys on here like the guy and that’s fine. I’ve disliked him for years.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 1, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
he’s so smart and astute in his football observations, the only way i can see someone disliking him is some silly “personal” stance related to his bengals playing days.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 1, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Has nothing to do with him playing for Cincy.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 1, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
It has nothing to do with playing for Cincy and don’t think it does. That’s a stupid explanation.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 1, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Why do you have to call everything you disagree with stupid? That’s just a way to start unecessary arguments.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
Why does he have to assume everyone who hates Collinsworth has to hate him because he played for Cincy?
That’s a Braylon Edwards excuse and it’s dumb.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 1, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
There are better ways to say that then calling it stupid. That’s the whole point Chris tried to make with his Community Guidelines post last week. You don’t always have to be so hostile and argumentative in the tone of your comments.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
I thought him saying that I like people based on “Braylon Edwards” thinking was pretty hostile.
I’m not a cleveland.com idiot.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 1, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not a cleveland.com idiot.
all evidence to the contrary…
i still haven’t heard another explanation for disliking collinsworth.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 1, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
all evidence to the contrary…
And why the hell is he allowed to say that!? Because he’s Joey?
And I don’t like Collinsworth due to his voice honestly. I can’t listen to him. And the fact that he says the same 10 things in a loop on Madden doesn’t help his case.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 1, 2010 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. But you’re probably in a fight that will go nowhere.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
I don’t like his voice, it’s annoying. I don’t like his jokes, they aren’t funny. If you’re going to be a commentator you have to have more than just knowledge.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
the only way i can see someone disliking him is some silly "personal" stance related to his bengals playing days
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
Honestly, it really was a stupid explanation, or would you prefer “silly.”
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
FOX has Bradshaw. CBS has Cowher. NBC fired Bettis.
Amazing. I see it’s personal.
by Western Reserve on Sep 30, 2010 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions
i’m 100% in your corner here. all non-live-event espn programming (and i mean that … all) is trash. i’m not saying every person who works at ESPN is a piece of garbage — that’s a ridiculous extrapolation from what you actually said — but 98% of the productions on which they work are garbage.
it’s pretty much turned into TMZ: sports edition.
and, i have to say this b/c at least 2 people now have praised them…mike and mike are absolutely atrocious. just unlistenable/unwatchable.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 29, 2010 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
100% disagree. They are entertaining and very intelligent, more so than many people on Radio/TV that talk sports.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
people on Radio/TV that talk sports
talk about a low bar…
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 29, 2010 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions
so who are you going to compare Mike and Mike with. It may be a low bar in your opinion, but trying to compare them to a writer for a website (such as pro football talk or yahoo sports) is comparing apples to oranges.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
what other bar can there possibly be? Getting ready for work/driving in to work- they are the best option. And really enjoyable.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 30, 2010 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Mike & Mike are better than most any other sports-talk radio schlock, though I always kinda liked the Dan Patrick show. Every so often, though, they’ll have a discussion — like their recent takes on Felix Hernandez and the Cy Young award — that will remind me that, oh, yeah, these guys really have no idea what they’re talking about.
Also, whenever they interview somebody from the ESPN family of networks (like Mark Schlereth, in particular), it’s abysmal. When they bring in outside guests, it’s interesting. When they talk to Kurt Warner to cross-promote Dancing With the Stars, I turn them off for a few days.
Yeah, the Cy Young dicussions are terrible. I’m so sick of hearing that the pitcher’s job is to win games. They’re stuck in the dark ages when they talk about baseball. But their football discussions are usually pretty good, especially since Golic often gives his perspective as a former player.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I tend to think the statties are oversimplifying this Cy Young debate. This is a whole different discussion that probably belongs elsewhere, but when I factor in Safeco vs. Yankee Stadium and then the qualify of division both guys play in, I think the Cy race is very close betwene CC and Felix. Not sure if those same points are made on the radio, but I don’t think its clear cut.
The points made on the radio were “Wins! Wins! Wins!” So, no.
However, I don’t know about your arguments either. Felix has had to face the Yankees three times, and CC has gotten to face the Mariners three times. If you take out those three games against the worst offense in the last 40 years, CC’s ERA jumps up around 3.5. As for the home stadium thing, Felix’s road numbers trounce CC’s too.
Chemo is exactly right. CC benefits from not having to face the Yankees lineup while Felix is hurt by not having to face the Mariners lineup. Their schedules aren’t that different.
And there are plenty of stats which neutralize the effects of home ballpark, and all those stats favor Felix.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 1, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I am aware there are stats that neutralize ballparks. I don’t think your assertion that they all favor Felix is true. When B-Ref famously made their park adjustments about a month ago, CC all of a sudden had a higher WAR than Felix and it became this big issue for a moment that was dismissed. Bottom line for me, is that I don’t fully trust park adjustment stats yet, I think they are trying, but aren’t accurately capturing the adjustment yet. Even still, if BRef makes that adjustment and now CC has a higher WAR, do you not think he has a CY case?
I don’t think it’s clear cut that CC is second. According to FanGraphs, Liriano and Lee are both ahead of Felix in FIP and Lee is ahead of him in WAR. Of course, Felix has a big lead in IP over those two so he should win the award but there is certainly room for debate over who should be second and third.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
Again, it depends on how much emphasis you place on certain stats over others. The problem I have is that Fangraphs and B-Ref have completely different WAR numbers, but the stat community has latched onto the fangraph numbers for whatever reason. I can’t trust a metric that is purported to measure the same thing but has wildly different outcomes. I think it’s close for number 1.
It should be pointed out that Greenie thinks Felix should probably get the award.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
I’m with you, Joey.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 29, 2010 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I think pretty much all sports talk radio, unless they are doing interviews, is atrocious. Although I particularly hate how non-athlete Mike has to repeat his point over and over as if we didn’t hear it the first 40 times he said it (especially when he uses his disbelief voice).
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
I enjoy Mike and Mike and listen to them every morning on my way to work. They do get in conversations which annoy and frustrate me at times, especially about baseball, but overall they’re pretty good, epsecially compared to many other sports talk shows.
But you know who’s really good on ESPN radio — Scott Van Pelt and Ryan Rusillo in the afternoon. Unforunately I only catch the last hour of their show, but they have a very good perspective on most sports lissues and stay away from the hyperbole and over-the-top opinions that most sports radio shows have. They’re both really great.
And many ESPN.com writers are very good — Rob Neyer, Keith Law, John Hollinger, Bill Simmons (most of the time), many of their college football guys. I know much of their Sportscenter production is annoying because they focus more on entertainment than sports, but that doen’t mean everything they do is crap because that’s an unfair generaliztion.
Finally, I know that he didn’t say everyone who works at ESPN is complete garbage and that’s not what I meant to say. I didn’t mean that he was attacking them personally, but he was attacking the product of everything associated with ESPN (and when he says it’s “complete” garbage then that’s what he means) and that’s what I had a problem with. Yes, many things they do are terrible, but they also have many people on TV, radio, and on their website who provide quality work. So it’s not complete garbage.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 29, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I was referring more to their TV product, even though I didn’t specify. I don’t know enough about their radio product, to be honest.
And, Brad, yes, I did say “complete garbage.” And then I responded specifically to you and said, “It was a bit hyperbolic.” You may continue to repeat it, take it to its literal extreme, take it to the bank and cash it if you like, do whatever you want with it, but I thought I at least leveled that point with you in that I was merely expressing my distaste for ESPN.
Although, if I did maintain that ESPN was every bit garbage short of literally being “complete garbage,” how would we even argue that?
by Western Reserve on Sep 29, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
some of their TV product I don’t like (like sportsnation, because it has cowherd, and 1st and 10 b/c it has bayless), but there is a lot that is good, intelligent analysis.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
like sportsnation, because it has cowherd
I doubt people watch it for Cowherd more than they watch it for the hostess.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 29, 2010 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I didn’t say she was terrible.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 30, 2010 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Colin Blowhard? Seriously?
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
by woodsmeister on Sep 30, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
And your like of it seems very unhealthy.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 30, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I vote that the mere mention of Colin Cowherd be marked as an immediate DBN CGV. Oh, and ESPN too.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 30, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Comunity Guidelines Void?
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 30, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I jest, DN, I jest. (I thought the inclusion of ESPN gave it away.) Mainly I thought it funny because at this point we kind of know how this whole conversation will go.
I’m OK with CC myself; he can be a blowhard but it’s clearly a part of his stage act.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 30, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
whether you like Cowherd you you don’t, it is clear he is quite possibly the most polarizing media figure (and maybe one of the most polarizing figures) in all of sports.
The reason we don’t get involved in politics i assume is because its very polarizing and people are dead set on their opinions (plus, you don’t talk politics in public, its just not polite). Whether you like him or not, cowherd can have the same affect as issues such as politics so I see why it should be against the guidelines.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I give you credit DawgNuts, you stick with your guns.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 30, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we might be the only ones here who like that show, the only ones who can tolerate it even. There’s a strong dislike for Cowherd around these parts.
I’ve only seen him on the show and I basically just see him as a guy who is having fun. Most of the time when he speaks it seems to me that it’s obvious that he’s playing devil’s advocate. Like i said I haven’t watched him or listened to him in any other capacity so i’m not familiar with his persona in those regards.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
SN gets a thumbs up from me.
I think Cowherd puts up a stint to a point.
She’s always the optimist, he’s always the pessimist.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 30, 2010 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
…but sometimes when you think he is playing devils advocate, he actually believes that…and sometimes that devils advocate point is ridiculous and absurd.
He is better on the show than on radio, but he is still himself so he can be annoying, just on a lesser scale.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
he actually believes that…
You have no clue what he believes.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 30, 2010 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
well…he has instisted at times in these arguments that this is what he believes…one that comes to mind is his long diatribe (that became famous) about Jose Canseco for the HOF.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Cowherd says so many ridiculously dumb things that it’s impossible to take him seriously.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2010 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I think he’s a sports/shock jock hybrid.
by Western Reserve on Sep 30, 2010 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions
There are two things (at least) that I hate about Cowherd:
1. He goes off on completely ridiculous rants making inane and indefensible arguments – and he does so with an overwhelmingly smug attitude that belittles any opposing opinion.
2. His primary interest is in the entertainment and business side of sports, i.e. he argues that anything that doesn’t get high television ratings is irrelevant in sports. As a Browns and Reds fan, you can see how this attitude might run all over me.
I guess the thing is I don’t see is shtick as being smug on the show, I just see him playing a role.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
Which makes sense, because i don’t listen to him on the radio so i’ve probably miss a lot of what people hate about him.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
I agree with many things he says and don’t consider myself to be ridiculously dumb. just because its ridiculously dumb to you doesn’t make it so.
There are many things a person can say that are ridiculously dumb, and it has nothing to do with whether or not I agree with it. For example, saying that Ben Roethlisberger is a better QB than Peyton Manning (just to make something up) is a ridiculously dumb thing to say for many reasons which can be demonstrated with logic and reason. It doesn’t matter what I or anyone else thinks of that statement, it’s a dumb statement.
Likewise, Cowherd has said many, many things which are ridiclously dumb (his support of Rob Dibble after his idiotic rant on Strasburg being just one example). It’s not ridiculously dumb just because I think it is, it’s ridiculously dumb because it lacks logic and reason. That’s not an opinion, that’s a fact.
It’s perfectly fine if you like listening to him and I’m not making any judgements about you for doing that, but I’ve heard enough from him to know that I don’t want to waste my time listening to him.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Likewise, Cowherd has said many, many things which are ridiclously dumb (his support of Rob Dibble after his idiotic rant on Strasburg being just one example).
I hadn’t heard about the Dibble / Strasburg kerfluffle. I just read up on it, and holy hell! I can’t believe people were calling for his head over that.
"And the 2010 National League Central Division Champs are the Cincinnati Reds!" -- Marty Brennaman
I think it was more the Nats’ ownership, as opposed to fans, didn’t want a guy on the payroll that was badmouthing the club’s big investment — and brightest hope.
by Western Reserve on Sep 30, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not just that. What Dibble said was incredibly stupid. Telling a guy to “suck it up” when he’s injured is simply ignorant, especially with all the health problems that pitchers have and how much the club has invested in him. Dibble also recently made an offensive comment about women in the stands during a game. He’s another idiot.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
its like my pediatrician when I was 7. I broke my leg and my mom naturally called him up. He says “are you sure its broken? see if he can suck it up and walk on it”
We changed pediatricians the next day.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Right, and I agree, I was just emphasizing that it was the ownership (as opposed to some public outcry) who slammed the door on Dibble, whose comments were callous and unbecoming in addition to being stupid.
by Western Reserve on Sep 30, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, from what I’ve read, the National’s fans love Dibble (which is probably why he still has a job).
"And the 2010 National League Central Division Champs are the Cincinnati Reds!" -- Marty Brennaman
Did they fire him?
"And the 2010 National League Central Division Champs are the Cincinnati Reds!" -- Marty Brennaman
Yes, he was canned — no longer calling Nationals games.
by Western Reserve on Sep 30, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
What a load of horse shit.
"And the 2010 National League Central Division Champs are the Cincinnati Reds!" -- Marty Brennaman
Probably a bit political. In addition to the remarks about the female fans, not always the best idea to call out the franchise mantle piece.
Oh, and before you cry a river for him, Dibble sucked. At his job.
by Western Reserve on Sep 30, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Well now, no one’s crying a river for him. It’s horseshit, but then again what isn’t these days.
Do you watch the Nationals a lot?
"And the 2010 National League Central Division Champs are the Cincinnati Reds!" -- Marty Brennaman
No, but I’ve seen and heard enough of him.
by Western Reserve on Sep 30, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, Dibble was terrible. He’s a perfect example of what is wrong with baseball announcers.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t forget S-burg also did his own bit of calling out. If you can’t take it don’t dish it.
Oh how I remember the Steve Stone saga with the Cubs.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
You’ll either have to familiarize or remind me what Strasburg said.
by Western Reserve on Sep 30, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Stephen Strasburg on Bryce Harper: ‘If he doesn’t want to play here, then we don’t want him here’
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
Lots of pitchers from that era and earlier would say the same thing though.
The Nats are lucky Dibble didn’t take them to task for bringing up Strasburg in a lost season without first fixing his mechanics.
The National’s caused the injury, yet it’s a broadcaster who should be fired for telling him to suck it up and pitch? Seems a bit hypocritical to me. No one has this kids best interests or long term health in mind; not Dibble, and certainly not the Nationals.
I saw mention of the supposedly ‘offensive’ comment made about a couple of women in the stands. I didn’t find his comment the least bit offensive, though what do I know in a world where ‘suck it up and play’ is deemed grounds for possible dismissal.
"And the 2010 National League Central Division Champs are the Cincinnati Reds!" -- Marty Brennaman
by golanbatrac on Sep 30, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And those pitchers would be dead wrong.
How did the Nationals cause his injury? Injuries happen all the time without reason. Of course the Nats have his long-term health in mind, which is why they were so conservative with his workload this year. Sometimes pitchers just get injured despite all the precautions that the team takes.
And his comments were certainly offensive. Just because you didn’t think so doesn’t mean they weren’t.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Injuries happen all the time without reason. Of course the Nats have his long-term health in mind, which is why they were so conservative with his workload this year. Sometimes pitchers just get injured despite all the precautions that the team takes.
If they were at all interested in his long term health, they would not have brought him up without first fixing is Mark Prioresque mechanics. He was a Tommy John surgery waiting to happen, and they did nothing.
Giving a pitcher with bad mechanics a pitch count is a bit like closing the barn door after the cows have gotten out. The only thing it accomplishes is it gives the team some cover when he blows out his arm. Teach the guy how to pitch and he wouldn’t need a pitch count (or surgery).
And his comments were certainly offensive. Just because you didn’t think so doesn’t mean they weren’t.
You’re going to have to explain to me how what he said was offensive. I don’t see it at all.
"And the 2010 National League Central Division Champs are the Cincinnati Reds!" -- Marty Brennaman
His injury possibly could have been foreshadowed just because we’ve seen it happen to these fireball throwers in the past. But the Nationals have so much riding on his future, why would they hang him out to dry? I understand the short-term urge to put people in seats, but would they really be so negligent? Perhaps. Or perhaps he really just got injured as these athletes are prone to do. I wouldn’t know enough to notice the problems in his mechanics.
by Western Reserve on Sep 30, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
he didn’t have anything terribly wrong with his mechanics. In fact, he looked down-right effortless hitting 100.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 30, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s got the dreaded inverted w delivery. He throws his arm too far back on the back end of his motion and pinches his shoulder blades in toward the middle of his back. Tommy John first, then the rotator cuff. Unless someone fixes his mechanics, five years from now he’ll have spent 3/5 of his career on the DL. What’s worse is he’ll be 28 years old, have little in the way of good stuff, and won’t know how to pitch. Bank on it.
"And the 2010 National League Central Division Champs are the Cincinnati Reds!" -- Marty Brennaman
well, he already knows how to pitch. That’s part of what made him so good. there are plenty of guys that throw in the high 90s, strastburg was so good because he had a nasty breaking ball and knew how to use it.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 30, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah. I read up a lot on that. I believe prior had the same thing. outside of the inverted W, they both had solid mechanics. the inverted w isn’t particularly ‘bad’ from what I seemed to gather, it just makes you more injury prone.
Even lincecum has a little hiccup in his motion. he has a small inverted L (and the inverted L doesn’t seem to be as bad as the W), but it doesn’t affect his timing. Its all about the timing it seems like (and that makes a lot of sense).
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
actually, I am done with that midterm and all the crap I had to do this week. finished it last night.
Plus, the stuff I looked up on the inverted W I looked up a couple months ago. I forget if it was here or LGT, but the conversation got to Strasburg’s pitching mechanics and someone started talking about the inverted W…could have been golan.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
http://www.tendollarbeers.com/2010/08/stephen-strasburg-and-inverted-w.html
"And the 2010 National League Central Division Champs are the Cincinnati Reds!" -- Marty Brennaman
as far as the inverted W goes, it is far from a consensus that it’s bad for you. Even then, it’s supposed to be harder on the shoulders than on the elbow. Young pitchers get injured. these days you might as well do the tommy John before there’s an injury. The mechanics make a nice excuse, and you’re free to believe what you want, but most people in baseball didn’t think they were a problem.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 30, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 30, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
They were sexist, and I don’t know how anyone could think otherwise. I’ve read many intelligent and well-respected baseball writers who’ve all said the same thing.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
They were sexist, and I don’t know how anyone could think otherwise.
How so?
I’ve read many intelligent and well-respected baseball writers who’ve all said the same thing.
Links?
"And the 2010 National League Central Division Champs are the Cincinnati Reds!" -- Marty Brennaman
by golanbatrac on Sep 30, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
You really can’t see how his comments were sexist? Really?
And I can find links if you really want to see them, but I don’t have any easily accessible.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 1, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
And here’s an excellent summary of responses to Dibble’s idiotic, sexist comments.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
here’s the top hit of a quick “rob dibble sexist” google search. it sums it up pretty nicely.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/08/rob_dibble_amazed_by_women_at.html
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Oct 1, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
also, a post from the DC sbnation site about Dibble’s 5 worst announcing gaffes.
http://dc.sbnation.com/2010/9/1/1664064/top-five-rob-dibble-moments
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Oct 1, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
And I thought Prior was supposed to have had perfect mechanics? Pitchers get injured, no matter how good their mechancis are supposed to be. You can’t blame his injury on the Nats at all, and any second-guessing after the fact doesn’t change that.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
There was a sports physician on the local radio here a few months ago who noticed the flaw in Strasburg’s delivery – and this was before any of his injuries took place. He basically predicted Tommy John surgery in Strasburg’s future.
I agree with Golan that the Nationals should have fixed this before calling him up to the Majors.
Yep. Lots of people voiced concerns over his delivery prior to the draft.
Inverted w + timing issues + slider = certain disaster
So far, they’ve been right. It’ll be interesting to see what the Nats do when he comes back – fix his delivery or let him go back out there and blow out his shoulder.
"And the 2010 National League Central Division Champs are the Cincinnati Reds!" -- Marty Brennaman
by golanbatrac on Sep 30, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I could go on TV and look at any young pitcher in the league and predict “Tommy John!” and I’ll probably be right.
Anyway, though, I don’t know enough about mechanics to comment about that. The point is, Dibble — a guy who had his own career severely shortened by injuries — looked at a guy who was suffering from a torn ulnar collateral ligament, who played on the team Dibble was paid to support, and called him a wuss who needed to suck it up. Dibble’s an idiot and a bad announcer, so he deserved to be fired.
This is all exactly right. Well said.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 1, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
seriously, you might as well schedule Tommy John surgery in advance for all young pitchers.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Oct 1, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Prior’s mechanics were horrible. He had the same inverted w and the same timing problem Strasburg has.
They should have fixed his mechanics. Even the people saying that he’ll be fine admit that there’s a problem with his delivery.
"And the 2010 National League Central Division Champs are the Cincinnati Reds!" -- Marty Brennaman
by golanbatrac on Sep 30, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyway, I’m trying not to get into any long, drawn out arguments on the internet, so I’m going to excuse myself from both the Strasburg and Dibble conversations. Nothing good ever comes of fighting these things out to the bitter end.
"And the 2010 National League Central Division Champs are the Cincinnati Reds!" -- Marty Brennaman
by golanbatrac on Sep 30, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
word.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Oct 1, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
SportsNation is a fun show despite Cowherd. If they replaced him with almost anybody else in the world, it would be a much better show. And he is so much worse on the radio.
Totally agree. SportsNation is Cowherd lite. it still doesn’t make him very bearable to me. I also am not always a fan of the writing (like I was watching recently and it was something about walking the plank and they had all these terrible pirate jokes).
The format is fun, Beadle is entertaining, so I occasionally watch.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I enjoy quite a bit of ESPN’s programming. I don’t really care what the popular opinion is. Around the Horn is good, SportsNation, PTI isn’t bad, and I like Mike and Mike along with The Scott Van Pelt Show.
I enjoy SportsCenter, too. I guess there isn’t much about ESPN I don’t like, except maybe Dr. Lou on College Football Live.
ATH is terrible, PTI is better for Kornheiser. and I watch SC to catch up on sport things in general, as I’m more football focused personally.
Houltz SHOULD NOT be in front of the camera in any capacity. And he cohort is just as bad.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 30, 2010 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I love Around the Horn depending on the writers that are on. There are some I just can’t stand. The hosts for SC are great, especially LA.
Kevin Blackinstone is great. Plasche is a tool.
I really enjoy Tony Reali.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 30, 2010 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Is Blackinstone the one that just cracks jokes all the time and looks like Mr. Clean without the muscles and with glasses?
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 30, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I think I’m thinking of the the SC host.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 30, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh. When I do watch ATH, I enjoy what he has to say.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 30, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. Blackistone is one of my favorites. Plaschke gets on my nerves. So does Mariotti.
Colinshaw isn’t too bad and I like how he talks about other sports (but ridiculed sometimes for this).
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I think Wilbon is much better at commentating and analysis than Kornheiser.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
This response is for WR, but I assume it’s going to get lost behind all the other replies.
I know that you responded to my comment that you were being hyperbolic and I wasn’t trying to continue an argument. I was simply responding to DCMJ’s comment about my reply to you, and clarifying what I originally meant to say that I knew you weren’t calling them garbage personally, because that’s what he thought. I really wasn’t trying to continue an argument with you and I wasn’t trying to take it to the extreme, and I’m sorry if you thought that.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2010 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I like SVP. Not as on board with Rusillio (doesn’t he spell Ryan in some ridiculous way?) I’ve caught Brian Kenny’s show a couple times- I have mad respect for him. He is the most enlightened radio talk show host when it comes to baseball statistics that I’ve heard.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 30, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, it’s Ryen. I meant to spell it that way. I like them together, but I do agree that SVP is the better of the two.
And I have mad respect for Brian Kenny as well. He knows his stuff when it comes to baseball. I remember a few years ago, must have been 2004, when Hafner was putting up huge number but nobody was talking about him for MVP because the Indians weren’t good and he wasn’t as popular of a name as Big Papi and some other. Brian Kenny was talking about his OPS and other stats and I was impressed. He’s very good.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2010 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Sandberg joke by the way, not contradicting your spelling.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
I caught that. i was about say “like sandberg?”
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Yeah Jim Rome always plays that soundbite on his show.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
I listened to Brian Kenny a couple of nights ago, and he was talking about how MLB should go back to one division leagues, with the AL winner and NL winner meeting in the World Series. I wanted to smack him.
Another point for Brian Kenny. I hate the wild card.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
TMZ: sports edition.
Exactly how I feel.
by Western Reserve on Sep 29, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve never met anyone that didn’t think Mike and Mike was entertaining. It’s not a pure sports show, but its darn good radio/TV.
Sportscenter does a lot of gimmicky crap these days, but some of it is really good. The Gruden QB specials were recent examples.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 30, 2010 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, College GameDay is awesome.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2010 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I freakin’ love Corso.
Anyone who goes on TV and isn’t afraid to be the butt of jokes and truly enjoys their job is good TV in my eyes.
For example, Bradshaw, Corso and Vitale.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 30, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
No thank you to Bradshaw.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 30, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Unrelated to the merits of the show, do you ever feel Golic is a pushover and easily swayed by Greenberg’s opinions? Seems like Golic is often remiss to go against Greenberg.
by Western Reserve on Sep 30, 2010 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Really? It seems to me that they disagree on many topics.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Not a regular, but the times I’ve seen and/or heard it, it seemed that Golic would easily get pushed back by Greenberg. Maybe it was just a matter of personality: Golic seems like a pretty gregarious guy, while Greenberg can be a bit more snarky.
by Western Reserve on Sep 30, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, they obviously talk about many different topics during their 4 hour show, so there are certainly times they agree and others where they disagree. But it never seemed to me like Golic easily gives in to Greenberg’s opinion. There are many times where they are on opposite sides of a debate and argue about it extensively.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Usually i get the feeling Golic sometimes doesn’t feel like arguing with Greenberg. Really I just don’t like Greenberg I guess.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
Fox production is terrible, in my opinion. It looks cheap and just off. I like NBC’s, but I guess I just don’t see it often enough. Its about the graphics, the consistent commentators, the camera angles and quality of shots, the directing. CBS is perfectly average on these things. ESPN is great. I think the lines hear are more blurred for NFL games, but very easy to see in College games. Though this is all very subjective.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 30, 2010 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I like ESPN for College games, I think it’s belittled by NBC for NFL games though.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 30, 2010 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, NBC does look pretty cool. I guess I’m still not used to it. Also, I think Al Michaels seems less interested than he used to.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 30, 2010 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
He misses Madden. I’d be pissed and uninterested if I had to sit and listen to Collinsworth in my ear for 3 hours too.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 30, 2010 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
NBC football trumps any other NFL production.
I hate FOX. I hate actually liking shows on FOX because most of their programming seems to look like crap. I only watch House and Glee, and even the commercials seem to looks shitty.
Funny difference of opinions — I always prefer the “look” of FOX shows more than NBC, ABC, and CBS.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 30, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Fox shows look heavy on the contrast and I guess brightness? Where CBS always looks pale. I don’t really watch ABC.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
I watched 1 episode of Glee yesterday actually (Fox.com)… it was absolute garbage. Terrible acting, terrible dialog, and I’m guessing terrible storylines but I only saw that one episode.
I only watched it because I wanted to see what all the hype was about. All I can guess is that some people really like covers of huge pop hits and nonsensical drama.
I really love early House though. I’m sure it’s still good, but I lost interest when the three other doctors went and did their own things.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
GLEE = Reincarnated version of GREASE from back in the day
"The road to Easy Street goes through the sewer."--John Madden
I just can’t get past how awful the acting and dialog is. Of course that’s probably not a priority at all, and I’m not even close to their target audience. Clearly they were looking to cast talented singers and have them try to act rather than have actors try to sing, which better suits the shows needs. I’ll give them that, the singers are talented, even though it’s not my taste.
Still, the story behind the musical bits they tie in is just so off the wall… I couldn’t enjoy any of it.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
My wife loves it and I’ve never watched it.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair, you picked the wrong episode to jump into. They did a “themed” episode, where they just go off and kind of unnecessarily focus on one singer, which detracts from the story the show usually follows. Try next week’s episode or something and see if it works for you, because this week’s wasn’t a fair gauge.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 30, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I sometimes watch. I agree with what you are saying. they brought people in who are singers, not actors (kind of like this HS group called chanticleers where they sang and danced but it was just dancers who sucked at singing). Jane Lynch is hilarious, but she acts outside of musicals and glee.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Actually the girl they focused on last week wasn’t a singer but a dancer. She was a back-up dancer for Beyonce. I don’t know if you watched this week, but that chick had some moves.
I always feel bad for Mort.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 29, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t. He has made a career out of useless information and made-up facts. He was terrible in his role and even worse when he tried to give his opinion.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 30, 2010 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I meant feel bad in the pity way that ESPN does not need him in any capacity and I think he knows that.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 30, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Shefter is great. I don’t know if anyone else notice, but during the draft he looked exhausted. He must be ESPN’s only real inside guy.
Wasn’t he a FOX product, but the minute ESPN saw his connections and abilities they grabbed him up?
FOX then replaced him with Glazer who is decent but he is definitely not Schefter.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 30, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Wish I knew. I refuse to watch FOX other than the couple of shows I DVR and if they have a game Sunday I want to see.
I seriously cannot understand who at FOX, thought picking up Strahan as an analyst was a good idea.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 30, 2010 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Probably the same person who thought giving him a sit-com was a good idea.
"And the 2010 National League Central Division Champs are the Cincinnati Reds!" -- Marty Brennaman
by golanbatrac on Sep 30, 2010 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Didn’t that already go down in flames?
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 30, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Schefter was originally with the NFL network if I remember correctly.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 30, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve always loved listening to Mike and Mike. I think it’s great that Golic gives a little bit of Cleveland perspective and is quick to defend his hometown. Hate that he went to ND, but his brother Bob playing for the Browns makes up for that.
TJ Ward... the cure for Cleveland's Eric Berry man-crush.
I don’t think it’s an unfair generalization. just because the indians have a few good players doesn’t mean the team isn’t terrible. Just because Gigli probably had one or two good scenes doesn’t save the movie from being awful. Just because ESPN has 2 or 3 good shows doesn’t make the network as a whole not terrible.
Hooray for double negatives.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 30, 2010 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They have more than 2 or 3.
And I think people like to pile on ESPN unfairly (at times) because they’re the big and powerful network in sports and it’s easy to find things to get upset about. They do some things very poorly and but they do many things very well. Also, they’re trying to please a large audience with a vast array of interests and preferences so they’re not going to please everyone all the time. What they do that interests us might not interest other people and vice versa. So it’s impossible for them to make everyone happy.
I really hate to sound like I’m defending ESPN because many things about the network annoys me, but it is most certainly an unfair generaliztion to say that the whole network, radio, and website are terrible.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
it is most certainly an unfair generaliztion to say that the whole network, radio, and website are terrible.
just to be clear … that is exactly what i am saying
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 30, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, after all, this is the network that beat the Michael Vick news to death, pumped up the Roger Clemens story ad nauseam and wouldn’t quit on the Brett Favre story.
…
Oh yeah, and they gave us “The Decision.”
by Western Reserve on Sep 30, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
so this is what makes ESPN bad? I can find incidents that from a journalistic standpoint, are almost as bad at CNN. does that make them a bad channel? Every channel has their stories that they flub on.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

/tinfoil hat
It keeps ESPN from reading my thoughts
"The road to Easy Street goes through the sewer."--John Madden
by Kimble_79 on Sep 30, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Well, that’s the news media in general, not just ESPN.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Come on, guys, that comment is supposed to contain just a bit of irony.
by Western Reserve on Sep 30, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
And I’ve repeated many times that they do many stupid and annoying things, but again there are so many faces to ESPN that you can’t just pick out a few stories and say the whole network and everything associated with them is terrible because of that.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
My question is this, Who else are you going to watch to get continuous sports coverage at any hour of the day? So whether they suck or do not suck, it really doesn’t matter. We are stuck with them.
"The road to Easy Street goes through the sewer."--John Madden
i’m proud to say i haven’t consumed espn offerings (aside from live-game broadcasts) in months, and i don’t feel one bit less informed.
b/w cnnsi.com, nfl network, nba network, golf channel… you can cobble together non-stop coverage away from espn pretty easily.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 30, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s what every all-something network does though. When a story that fits in their parameters comes across, they report it to death, because really if you think about it, there’s not that much sports news fit to print for a 24 hour sports station. So they either have to create original programming, increase their sports telecasts, or play the same news over and over.
And really I think that’s what many want. Most people don’t watch every sportscenter straight through. They might catch the beginning of one and then the end of another.
Also as far as those stories if they don’t get the scoop, stay with the story constantly, a regular news network can slide in and steal their thunder.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
Clear something up for me: Are you saying that, in your opinion calling ESPN terrible is an unfair generalization, or are you expounding that as a matter of fact?
by Western Reserve on Sep 30, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I have to say that the current ESPN rankings seem pretty fair. I really don’t see any bias in them at all — the highest ranked East Coast team are the Jets at 7, and that seems reasonable after their last two games. Besides, I’m pretty sure the rankings are voted on by the bloggers who cover all 8 divisions so I don’t really see how there would be a bias towards one region or another. It’s not like they’re decided by the executives or anything like that. ESPN certainly does many things which you can justifiably criticize them for, but I don’t think that a bias in their power rankings is one of them.
I agree completely that power rankings are rather worthless — but fun to read nevertheless — and I don’t think it’s worth getting too upset over where the Browns are ranked. I’ve had that discussion on here many times, and gotten criticized for it by some people, but fans are too quick to complain about bias and think that the media hates their team because they’re not ranked as high as they think they should be ranked. But, the truth is that the fans of every team except the one ranked first thinks their team is ranked too low, so it’s not really anything to get all worked up about.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 28, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, I like to read James Walker’s blog sometimes, and he likes to go through and show what ESPN has them ranked, and then say what he thinks they should be ranked. For instance, he has Cleveland 29 instead of 30 (big whoop, I know).
You’re right, because I’m a Browns’ fan I think they are better than the rest. Doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to have my own opinion though. That’s what this place is for.
the panthers and 49ers are both winless two. but those teams started off the year at a higher rank and have more talent so they are ranked higher.
However, the browns have played better than either of those teams (and better than the jags). though its early in the season and one game can skew the numbers, point differential is always a good way of seeing which teams are actually playing better. jacksonville squeaked out a win then got killed 2 weeks in a row. Arizona got 2 wins by the skin of their teeth and though they are 2-1, have a negative point differential
point differential suggests the browns are playing better than their record indicates, the cowboys are playing better than their record indicates, and Arizona and Tampa will come down to earth soon because they are not this good.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
(also, to your original point about those teams, we have a better point differential than all of the, though the raiders aren’t too far behind)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I saw what that Seahawks fan said when he was here.
Wallace is good but gets flustered way too easily and makes bonehead decisions.
Oddly enough, an example he gave was Wallace running out of bounds behind the LOS. I mean that tarnishes our OL, and that;s stupid. Just throw the ball to the bench if you’re going to run out.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
he did get better at that this year. It seems like they are trying to coach him out of doing that. I saw at least 2 plays where he threw it out of bounds before running out. He still seems to get flustered easily and thats what I think happened on the 3rd and 2.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
no one above a high school level should run out of bounds behind the line when they have the option of throwing it.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly, and he did it twice on Sunday and apparently, has done it quite often before.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 28, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
let’s not act like wallace is the only qb who has ever done this. you see that every week in the nfl, and while that means that there are stupid plays every week, let’s not crucify wallace as the only person who commits a stupid play.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2010 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
well, he’s done it twice in 2 games so far. is that “frequent”?
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
No, he did it twice yesterday, I’m pretty sure at least once the week before and IF YOU ACTUALLY READ MY COMMENTS, a seahawk fan said that he did it often when he played for them.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 28, 2010 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions
i just realized how stupid this particular subject is to discuss, so i’m going to stop.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2010 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
you want to keep talking about whether or not seneca wallace runs out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage “frequently” and the effect that such may have on the browns? really? that’s a good topic?
proceed, by all means…
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I like how you quit.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 28, 2010 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions

They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
by Villeslgr on Sep 28, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
lets not forget his miscue on 3rd and 2 or the miscue that led to us having to punt the ball out of our own end zone. these were not running out of bounds miscues but they are still stupid plays.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
He does it often, like i said. Not once. It hurts the team overall and kills the OL’s stats.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 28, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
No, it should still be Wallace the Wonder.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 28, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
cornerbacks need to have a short memory,
I don’t know if anyone else has posted this, but yeah it’s ok for corners to have a short memory, coaches on the other hand.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
Bruuuce! Reds are goin’ to the playoffs!
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
buuuuuuuh!
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 28, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
While I didn’t pay specific attention to how Pashos did, Hillis seemed to have success running on the right side. If anyone feels Pashos helped make a difference, let us know!
Pluto mentioned that he looked good and that the Browns had some success running to the right side (though not as much as running to the left).
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
Some of my observations:
1.) Cribbs is the best WR on this team right now. Hard to say anything else about the passing game with a backup QB.
2.) Peyton Hillis has been the most impressive player on the field most games this season, including preseason, either team, either side of the ball.
3.) Eric Wright had the worst game of an individual CB I’ve seen, including Brandon McDonald. I’d work him hard in practice, make him watch that film 30 times Monday and Tuesday. That said, I then burn that tape and tell him I’m starting him on the Bengals #1. He is our best corner and we need him.
4.) The lack of a pass rush is very disturbing.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
I don’t think there’s that much of a talent drop-off from Delhomme to Wallace.
"My mother always told me: ‘You will see the light of people when they hit adversity. You’ll get a good sense of their character." - Ironic words from LeBron James
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Sep 28, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably not. But I think Delhomme probably had a little better chemistry with Robo and Massaquoi. Also, I’d trust him to make a little better decisions with audibles and the ability to make some of the down field throws. I’m not sure if this is enough to overcome his penchant for throwing INTs and lack of mobility.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 28, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
4.) The lack of a pass rush is very disturbing.
We’re missing Mosley, Rogers, Benard and DQ. I’d like to see a pass rush that would still do well.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 28, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Mosley was cut and DQ has never been a decent pass rusher.
Even with Rogers and Benard this teams pass rush stinks.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 29, 2010 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think you can say that. It’s the same group of guys who were top ten in the league last year in sacks.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 29, 2010 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s the same group of guys who were top ten in the league last year in sacks.
Not really. Here are guy’s that weren’t on the team last year…
- Gocong and Fujita are new starters at LB.
- Sheldon Brown is a new starter at CB.
- T.J. Ward is a new starter at SS.
- Joe Haden at CB.
Other notes of interest…
- Matt Roth was only here for 6 games last season.
- Rubin only got playing time last year when Rogers went down.
- Eric Barton, a starting LB this year, wasn’t a part of the 4 game win streak to end the season because of his injury.
- David Bowens was a significant part of the defense at ILB for the last 8 games of 2009. He missed the pre-season this year and I know he was inactive for the TB game. If he has even played this year he hasn’t recorded any stats.
by Monsters of the Midway on Sep 29, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
DQ has absolutely no impact on the pass rush, not to mention he hasn’t been part of the team for a year.
Mosley?
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
I meant without Mosley the pass rush suffers and a good LB, can always indirectly help in the pass rush.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 29, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
DQ hasn’t been a good LB since pre-Mangini.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 29, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
We did.
Too bad Wright really didn’t give a crap to go 100%
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 28, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
No.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 29, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I would love to see it when we have 3 CB’s on the field.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 29, 2010 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, we sent Wright multiple times. But as much as I like Wright, even at his best, he is no Charles Woodson. I hated him as a kid. He made me cry multiple times. But he may be the best DB of the last 20 years.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
Someone mentioned the convenient signing of Coye Francies by the Ravens. I wonder if he gave away some information that caused Wright to look so bad?
Sorry, short of food poisoning, I can’t figure out how he played sooo badly.
by HenryDawg on Sep 29, 2010 12:09 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Francies didn’t actually sign with the Ravens, only tried it. Therefore, I assume he didn’t receive a paycheck from them, which means it would’ve been pretty silly for him to give away secrets for free. I laughed at the thought of your comment being true though.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 29, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Coye was all, “Yo Raven guys, you didn’t hear it from me, but Eric Wright actually totally sucks! Yeah! Most people don’t know this, but you can just have your receivers run right by him and he won’t bother to cover! I know, I was shocked too!”
Really? Was Coye all like that?
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 29, 2010 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think they even bothered to laugh at him, he’s still standing there waiting for a response.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
No way. Francies was way too coy.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 1, 2010 3:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Good to know, I’m just looking for reasons as to why he played so badly.
Knowing this, we ought to resign him post haste – we need some help at corner. Hell, resign McDonald too if he’s available. Sure he can’t tackle, but he can at least get within 10 yards of his receiver.
McDonald reunited with DA. He needed to look good in practice.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 29, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks!
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 30, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
BTW…I’ve been meaning to send you this link Chris. I know you thought the wrestling emoticons were good. This site has quite a bit more, including the ones from the wrestling site.
http://forums.randi.org/misc.php?do=showsmilies
"The road to Easy Street goes through the sewer."--John Madden
by Kimble_79 on Sep 30, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This website could prove to be very useful. Good link.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
My Honda site gives me thumbs ups, downs, facepalms, fainting over a stupid comment and beer mugs, haha.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 30, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
which Honda site are you on? I had a cousin who was really into Hondas and was on a few forums.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 30, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Honda-tech.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 30, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions



I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 30, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Can you two get a room already?
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 1, 2010 3:10 AM EDT up reply actions
What? I was just flaunting all the awesome smileys I have cuz she f-ed hers up.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 1, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
jealous?
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Oct 1, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
There would be a serious problem if BY liked Em…
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 1, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Just being your wingman, bro. Tryin’ to help you out.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 1, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually meant he was jealous of emily getting all your attention, seeing as I’m pretty sure you two have a long-standing bromance, right?
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Oct 1, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
He did email me to ask if he could fly out to meet my mother. But I said no.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 1, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Ah. I wouldn’t call it a bromance, it’s the “I sometimes really dislike BB” committee.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 1, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I was a guest speaker at one of your meetings once, it was going real well till the boss shut it down.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
It was like the Chicago Democratic Convention riots.
It was truly amazing.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 1, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
More fun than Kent State, I’m sure.
(Over the line there?)
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 2, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, wow…
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 2, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Not at all. I have a girlfriend who I like a lot.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 1, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Haven’t made it to the “L” word yet, huh?
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 1, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re half right. Gillian totally loves me, but I have a hard time saying it back. She bought 10 pounds of crab legs for my 30th birthday dinner next Thursday. Now that’s love!
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 1, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Holy crap.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass. ™
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 1, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
you should marry that woman.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Oct 2, 2010 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions

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