How About A Hardesty Vent Thread?
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 3, 2010 11:40 AM EDT
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PrintThis all kind of blows, like hard. What is his full injury history? It's reported he torn his ACL last night. I mean I was afraid to use him a lot last night but seriously? Just through training camp and a quarter of a game he's hurt both his knees? WTF. I really hope this is just coincidental incidences but who knows really. He was looking beast until he blew his knee. I don't think it'd be too serious of a tear if he walked on his own power. Thoughts?
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Hindsight is 20/20. Having said that, I do wonder whether it was so wise to just throw him into his first NFL game when he had missed the entire training camp, especially given his injury history.
With that out of the way, I still can’t fault the Browns for drafting him — you have to take some risks and draft picks don’t always work out.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Sep 3, 2010 12:26 PM EDT reply actions
he had practiced for a few days before hand I think.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
“a few days” — my point exactly. Throwing him into his first NFL game after only a “few days” of practice — given his history and the fact that he had just come off another injury — does not seem like the wisest move. Again, hindsight being 20/20; I recognize this is easy to say after the fact.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Sep 3, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
True...Hindsight is 20/20 but was it really necessary to trade up
I know Heckert has a done really good job drafting with the Eagles. But looking at the Browns history was it really necessary to not only take a gamble on this RB but to also take a gamble that he could stay healthy. The Browns gave up to 2 draft picks to move up to get him and when it was probably not even necessary there was a lot of teams that were scared off from his injury history. They could have stayed where they were at and still could have taken him with their first pick in the third round and still kept there 2 other picks. I suppose you can make a case how many young guys do we need and what difference does 2 less young guys. But the Browns have been horrible in drafting players and a look at this year’s draft probably 2-3 of their drafted players won’t even be on the 53-man roster. I’m thinking Geathers and Mitchell will probably be on the practice squad and not the 53-man roster. I am sick of every year the same old story with our draft picks. I hope Haden and Ward have good rookie campaigns so at least we can say we have 2 building blocks for the future. It seems to me like the Browns’ front office does not view these draft picks as building blocks rather than just nuances, more willing to take time on undrafted prospects than draftable prospects.
Once a team gets a certain amount of depth, most of their later round rookies don’t make the roster. This is a positive not a negative and is not an indictment of the players drafted later. If they develop on the practice squad and turn into something, they were great picks. Your complaint about trading up for an injury prone player is certainly one that may be valid, but time will tell if he can come back from this injury.
Very true but the picks were mid-round picks plus would it not be more effective to just trade away the draft picks for future draft picks. You see this done, over and over again by the Patriots and the Ravens, hell you can probably include any good franchise does this practice. The Browns for years going back to late 80’s and beyond have been horrible on draft strategies.
But we didn’t waste ‘midrounders’ on Mitchell or Geathers. they were late rounders. Our midrounders were Lauvao, McCoy, and Hardesty (the pick we used as the key piece to trade up was a 3rd rounder). I would definitely not call these ‘wasted’ yet.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
You’re missing my point I was talking about the picks we traded away to get Hardesty. It was a 3rd round and 2 5th round. Those picks in my mind are middle round picks. If we kept those picks or traded away those picks for future picks, we would have received better talent than Geathers and Mitchell. Your right late round picks in the 6th and 7th, you have to hope for the best but picks from 1-end of the 5th, should be making your 53-man roster and the hope is your 1st and 2nd round picks are starters.
3rd round was a midround pick, but 5th round in general is stretching the definition of ‘midrounder’. calling players from that round a ‘midrounder’ is highly debatable. plus, its not like 5th rounders all turn out to be that great. the chances of all 3 guys we would have picked in the 5th round, making our active roster is very slim.
If we kept those picks or traded away those picks for future picks, we would have received better talent than Geathers and Mitchell
a) that is not certain b/c how many midround picks turn out to be all that great
b) Geathers and Mitchell are highly talented players…just raw.
c) whatever we could get compared to geathers and Mitchell is highly irrelevant and is just trying to distract from the point. We didn’t trade those picks to pick geathers and mitchell, we traded them to take hardesty. there is no guarantee that those picks would have turned out more talent then Hardesty. Honestly, with asante, we got one of the best players IMO from the 5rh round. that is more telling about how little talent is left at that point than how high I am on asante.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Lets for forget about Geathers and Mitchell, they are project players, that is great, big deal. I’m just saying instead of draft an injury prone RB, we could have had 3 players and maybe one or two might have been able to fill one of our holes. That is what I’m talking about. Making the best with what you got. I would have much rather have them trade those picks for future picks or maybe a veteran that would definitely been able to fill a hole.
In hindsight, right after the injury, we can all bitch and moan, but at the time, it was a calculated risk. they had their doctors assess him and they gave hardesty the thumbs up. Its just like when we took wright and gave him the thumbs up in terms of character issues. Not all calculated risks work…thats why they are a risk…but if I was Heckert, I would do the same thing again.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
We moved up and grabbed Hardesty just ahead of where the Jets grabbed Shonne Green the year before. Green had limited college experience and serious character concerns.
The second and third rounds are where teams take risks, either on guys with character concerns (Green, Eric Wright), injury concerns (Hardesty), or on high upside project players (Veikune).
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
Wasn’t something said about the Patriots were big on this kid and we thought they were gonna take him two picks after where we moved up to? Seems like that was the reason for the jump if I remember correctly.
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths --- Steven Wright
Absolutely disagee, your 2nd and 3rd round picks are not picks were you take risk, especially huge risks like a bad injury history in a RB. Both of those rounds you find the best talent and fill your holes. The hope is 1-3rd within a few years they become your cornerstone of your team. The picks from 4-7 those picks, you take the risk whether it be character issue, injury history, or projects. The project picks more or less should be in the 6th and 7th round, late round picks.
Grant it, there are some cases maybe they have immense talent and they slipped from the first because of those character issues but you better make sure you have a strong veteran core to straighten the player out.
well…without injuries, I would say Hardesty would possibly be the first RB drafted, talentwise.
If we kept those picks or traded away those picks for future picks, we would have received better talent than Geathers and Mitchell
actually…the second round IS where you take guys who are elite talents but have one smudge on their resume. Isn’t eric wright turning out okay? how about MJD for Jacksonville? How about Michael Roos in Tennessee or Bob Sanders in Indy? All these guys had some knock against them (character, height, small school, and height/injury history respectively) but they were definitely worth the risk
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
One other thing to say: I really feel bad for the guy. It must be such a letdown for him.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Sep 3, 2010 12:29 PM EDT reply actions
This has to be really though for him. Hopefully, they can get him the best surgery, rehab, and maybe some sort of biomechanical analysis to help prevent this kind of thing in the future.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I doubt his crying was from the pain…
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 3, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Sadly, it happens. That is the kind of risk you run when you draft this type of player.
I’m not to concerned, I think Harrison and Hillis are more than enough to split carries in the Browns backfield.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
It’s just really sad and disappointing.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 3, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
“If it’s a torn ACL and nothing more than that, Montario can get back to work and get back on the field as soon as possible,‘’ agent Mitch Frankel told the Plain Dealer. "We’re hoping it’s not worse than that. From what I saw, it didn’t look good.’’
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Why would his agent say that?
And how was it so bad! HE WALKED ON HIS OWN POWER.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 3, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
People react differently. I walked after I blew mine.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 3, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course I was in shock at the time, so maybe I didn’t feel the pain as much.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 3, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I walked off the field after mine as well. It wasn’t really painful when it happened, I thought maybe I just bruised my knee, I mean I walked off the field right? then I got to the sideline and the doctor told me what happened.
The ACL affects lateral movement, so walking without one isn’t a problem. In older people they don’t even bother replacing them most times.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
It’s definitely a weird feeling. Mine happened 15 years almost to the day, and all I can remember is that it felt like a painful numbing or something.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 3, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
This sucks, I really wanted to see what this kid could do this year, but at least we got Hillis. I have seen numerous players walk off the field with torn ACL’s.
by BrutalMovement on Sep 3, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Hell. Schefter now says:
Further tests revealed what initial tests showed: Browns rookie RB Montario Hardesty has a torn ACL. Out for year. ( http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter/statuses/22897840511 )
Terrible for him, bad for us. We rolled the dice and lost, but at least we have some depth there.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 3, 2010 12:44 PM EDT reply actions
Eh, it’s one year. Might o just been a freak accident.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 3, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
No, you’re right, although adding this to his existing medical log does make one a bit more nervous. Having him spend his first year out injured doesn’t make me think great pick though, freak accident or not .
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 3, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Tearing the same ACL twice can’t be good for him. I mean, he may end up recovering and playing well for us (I know a guy who tore the same ACL twice and he is still fast) but it doesn’t help him.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Too bad for Montario – his highlight film was impressive. I really cannot berate the club for this injury. Just chalk it up to an injury to a RB – just like any other. Consider these points:
1. It was his “healthy knee”.
2. You don´t trade up for a RB and set him on the bench. Mangini had no option but to take him our for a test drive in that game.
3. Before he blew out his ACL – he demonstrated the game readiness.
4. Maybe Brownie´s year would know better – but I believe this is a “catastrophic event” and not an avoidable injury.
Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"
I’m not mad at him, I’m mad at his stupid knee.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 3, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Mangini had no option but to take him our for a test drive in that game.
I am not convinced of that. As I said above, he had almost no real experience with NFL hitting. He had just come off an injury that made him sit out all of training camp. He may have practiced for a few days, but that is not involving real hitting. Was it really a good idea to throw him into his first real NFL game as the feature back? I understand that this was not the starting defense for an NFL team, but those guys are still more than he ever saw in college and they are all trying to do their best to win a roster spot. I know this is easy for me to say in retrospect, but I am not sure Mangini played this right. Moreover, your comment that he “had no option” is very wrong.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Sep 3, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Certainly respect your point of view and obviously no real way to know. He just looked really sound before he blew his knee out, as crazy as that sounds. I think Eric was just hell bent on getting his talent on the field to start the season, and needed to see what he could do so he could develop his role in the game plan.
Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"
FWIW – you have the best signature on DBN.
Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"
Appreciate it — wish the link wasn’t broken though. The story to which it liked was a story from the day after the disastrous 2008 NFL Draft that really makes you understand why the team crashed and burned that season.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Sep 3, 2010 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, it was a good idea. He could have played last week as he had already been practicing a few days, but we waited for him to get another full week of practice in. He was playing with and against a bunch of 2nd or 3rd string players. If there was ever a time for him to see the field, it was yesterday. You really think his first time should’ve been against the Buc’s first team? The circumstances are unfortunate, but hey, shit happens.
Kill them. Kill them all.
I was in the dining hall, and just when I looked up at ESPN these two headlines were on the marquee.
“Ben Roethlisberger will return vs. Browns”
“Montario Hardesty out for year with torn ACL”
Me: Sh*t! F*ck. DAMMIT.
Everyone else: Um… what’s going on?
Ha. Yes, the news wire was a killer today.
At least the Roethlisberger news has some upside. I’m going to enjoy rooting for us to eviscerate him.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 3, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I kind of liked the Roethlisberger news — it gives us the first shot at him.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Sep 3, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s the spirit!
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 3, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Atleast we have some depth at the position and James Davis will get some action……he looked pretty good last night and has a knack for making defenders miss, probably would’ve broke a couple longer runs had our WRs blocked a little better…..just think he deserves another look since he had a season-ending injury himself last year
by year of the elf on Sep 3, 2010 1:52 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Hating this for the Browns; loving this for my fantasy team.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
If it weren’t for bad luck, I’d have no luck at all.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
He’ll be back. Just keep him out of that practice facility. I don’t want to see LeCharles Bentley Part II.
Mangini had the locker rooms and showers razed last year (and took a beating in the press for spending millions on ‘needless’ renovations). Hopefully that means our players are at less risk.
Still, it’s always a good idea to stay clear of locker rooms and communal showers when recovering from surgery.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
Now that I am dropping Hardesty in my fantasy leagues, do I pick up Hillis or Davis? I can’t live without having at least 1 Browns player on my team.
King of the Hill.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 3, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Until ya’ll learn how to draft you are always gonna be dominated by the Ravens and Steelers.
I understand taking a chance on this kid but he was made out of glass and it was a bad pick by a team that needs lots of help and needs every draft pick to come thru for them.
by RavensAreDaRealBrowns on Sep 3, 2010 3:48 PM EDT reply actions
Ravens’ fans are so dumb they can’t even spell “y’all” right. We’ll see yal’l on the 26th. Good day.
by ahowie on Sep 3, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Say, do you guys hear an annoying whining sound in here? Sort of like a mosquito? Yeah, me neither.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 3, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How are your 2nd round picks turning out?
oh yeah. One is gonna miss the whole season with a fractured skull and there are rumors he may never be able to play again, and the other can’t stay in shape and just had arthroscopic surgery on his knee…At least we didn’t take 2 guys who can’t stay on the field last year…that was your team.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
by bross09 on Sep 3, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Both picks were considered great picks so even though they may not be able to play right away, I’m sure both players will be making good contributions in future years whereas Hardesty, I don’t know if we can say that. The Browns will probably draft another RB next year. Ravens defense will be sick if they can get Ngata and Cody on the same field together, nobody will be running on the Ravens. As far as Kindle, he should be a good LB for the Ravens.
Kindle had both injury concerns (knee) and character concerns (arrest, suspension), which is why he fell out of the first round.
So why is Kindle a good pick and not Hardesty?
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
wait…
so kindle has even more serious knee concerns (microfracture), fractures his skull, has rumors he may never play again in the NFL, and has had trouble with the law? and he is a better pick than hardesty? why don’t you just become a ravens fan…its obvious you have a biased towards them.
Ravens defense will be sick if they can get Ngata and Cody on the same field together, nobody will be running on the Ravens
thats a big if. thats like saying, If BE finally starts catching the ball, he could be a great WR. And 2 players don’t make a defense. teams will still run on the ravens though not effectively…and kindle isn’t great against the run anyways.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
I did not know those facts about Kindle. Another thing a LB could get by with multiple knee injuries, it is not like they are running the football. Players are not tackling them at the knees or they don’t need to make a cut to gain extra yards. I can’t believe the question was asked. Pretty much any position outside of RB and maybe WR, it does not matter if you have bum knees or what. I’m sure Kindle will be back maybe not this year but he’ll be back next year, look at Tyler Moeller, he is back playing football with the Buckeyes and he is going be a big part of the Buckeye defense. And why is it big a IF for Cody, even if he has to sit and watch a year, it will be beneficial. The knee surgery was not bad, Harbaugh said he could back in 2 weeks, most likely not but it is possible. If they get Cody’s weight under control and get better strength training, I don’t see why he can’t do the same thing he did at Alabama with the Ravens. I don’t think weight issues will be that big of a problem, he was able to lose weight for the combine.
Pretty much any position outside of RB and maybe WR, it does not matter if you have bum knees or what.
Tell that to Gary Baxter.
"My mother always told me: ‘You will see the light of people when they hit adversity. You’ll get a good sense of their character." - Ironic words from LeBron James
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Sep 4, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Or LeCharles Bentley.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 4, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Obviously careers have been shortened because knee injuries but being a RB, you already have short shelves space and having multiple knee surgeries along with other injuries is not going to make career any longer. The point I’m trying to make I’d much rather take risk on a LB or some other position than a RB with bad knees and injury prone.
Anyone with significant knee injuries can go down easily. I would rather just focus on the position that I feel I need more rather than focus on the marginal differences in the knee injuries and the effects on different positions between a pass rusher and a RB.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
I love how you’re hyping up and doggin’ players you know nothing about. That’s pretty sad.
And your whole thing about bum knees is straight garbage, bro. Give me a list of today’s starting LBs that have had several knee injuries and multiple surgeries. Go ahead, I’ll wait.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 4, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty much any position outside of RB and maybe WR, it does not matter if you have bum knees or what.
Um, no.
Who have I dogged, the only player is Hardesty. And I hardly dogged him, I just simply said if I’m drafting a RB especially in the second round and no less trading away a 3rd and couple 5th. I want to make sure he is not injury prone. As far a list, that is stupid, I’m sure every football player has had knee surgery in their football career. And I’m sure a lot of them have become great players. It is just my opinion, I did not like the move immediately. RBs are dime a dozen nowadays, that is why you see so many running back by commitees. Was it really important to get a RB, it is not like we could not grab one in free-agency and then maybe draft one in future drafts.
I hope nobody backfires back that RBs are not a dime a dozen and I’m an idiot and whatever else. Let me just say every player is replaceable. I have not liked the Browns draft strategies, I know some people say these draft experts are bunch of idiots and they know nothing about football and whatever else. But I see so many players who these draft experts say are good and they are good and in their rookie years they are starting for good teams/Super Bowl contending teams. So obviously they know what they are talking about. Every time I hear such player, I just think the Browns could have drafted him but no we had to draft so and so. And guess what so and so eventually is cut in year or two. Our talent evaluation has been horrible and you can’t deny it because if it was not true we would be a lot better than we are and whole lot of people would not have been fired. Time will tell if these new draft picks will be good. But all I know if they are not playing on Sunday it is very hard to evaluate the talent unless you are a coach. I no longer believe what the coaches say now, I want to see in my own eyes and then I know if so and so is really good.
Okay, have you noticed that you are talking about the Phil Savage era?
Phil Savage is no longer here. Your argument is insanely outdated.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 4, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Who have I dogged, the only player is Hardesty. And I hardly dogged him.
HAHA
I’m still waiting for your list of examples that proves your statements about LBs to be true. Don’t start calling me stupid if you can’t back up your statements.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 4, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow easy, I did not call you stupid, I said that was a stupid statement. How I’m going to give you a list when I’m sure every LB/player has had major knee surgery in their football career. I’m not a doctor, I can’t look at every player’s medical history.
DBN Rule: Don’t make empirical statements you can’t back up with facts. If you do, don’t think anyone is going to let you off the hook because you couldn’t be bothered to do the research.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 4, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Every LB? Dude, just stop.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 4, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Fine, one example, not going to give you a full list because that is stupid, this is a forum not a reseach paper. Jonathan Vilma, he recovered and became a Pro Bowler.
One guy still doesn’t make your statement true.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 4, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Fred Taylor had multiple ankle injuries and at least one knee injury/surgery…He played till he was 34.
BOOM!
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Dan Morgan went from being a Pro Bowler to washed up, to retired all in the course of 3 years (2005-2007/2008), mostly due to multple ankle and knee injuries
BOOM!
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Another thing a LB could get by with multiple knee injuries, it is not like they are running the football
He is a pass rush specialist. are you saying he doesn’t need speed or leverage from his lower body? Outside of Running backs, Pass rushers are one of the positions that most use their COD ability and overall, their knees.
You know what…tell that to Ricky Sapp. He had multiple knee injuries and knee surgeries in college. Because more was revealed about his injuries in the past, he was drafted in lower than his talent level. Guess what? he is also on the IR with a bum knee. it DOES happen to LBs and kindle is one knee injury away from being ricky sapp (plus, Kindle’s skull fracture)
Yes, it was just arthroscopic knee surgery…but he still had surgery as a rookie. Imagine how much force and pressure is exerted on his knees? It doesn’t bode well for his future injury history.
If they get Cody’s weight under control and get better strength training, I don’t see why he can’t do the same thing he did at Alabama with the Ravens. I don’t think weight issues will be that big of a problem, he was able to lose weight for the combine.
a) that is a HUGE IF.
b) even if he can get his weight under control, its not like he is facing college players anymore. He still would have to improve to dominate the NFL. guys are bigger and have better technique in the NFL.
c) He still came to the combine not in great shape, but better than he was. He weighed 354 at the combine and I heard that when he failed his conditioning, he was even heavier than at the Senior Bowl. Keeping his weight in check will be harder than keeping Jamarcus’ in check.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
I don’t get why you’re bad mouthing us when Kindle has a glass head, Stallworth has a glass foot…
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 3, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agree about the Browns’ draft. The Browns’ will never catch up in the AFC North, if they don’t draft better.
wait…so the brown according to you had such a terrible draft? I think we may have had the best draft and the ravens, the most overrated. The first 2 picks for the ravens may not see the field this year, while our first pick could start. With Ward and Haden, we have IMO, the best 2 players of the first 2 drafted by any team in the division. How can you say the team doesn’t draft well…
a) its pretty damn early to already condemn the 2010 draft class
b) have you even payed attention to the browns in the offseason? Haden looks good, and Ward looks like a great pickup too. Lauvao has looked excellent so far. He has most likely won the starting job, something Ducasse and Jerry (guards drafted ahead of him) haven’t been able to do. In fact, Ducasse might get it, just by default but he has looked pretty terrible.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
I did not say they had a terrible draft. It was an average draft, an average draft is not going to make us any closer to the Steelers, Ravens, and Bengals. You know what I like to see one year, every analyst right after the draft give the Browns a solid A and not a B- or C’s or even worst D and F. If you look at the Ravens, they almost always get a solid A or at very least B. A B is ok but not when you are constantly rebuilding like the Browns. With the 11 picks after the season ended, I would love to see the Browns draft 5 solid players from the draft. The Browns had the opportunity with 1 first, 1 second, 2 3rd, and maybe one of the 3 5th rounders. I don’t care if these players become stars, I just want solid football players. I know you can get solid football players 2-5. If you look around the league and many of the Pro-Bowlers, they are players from 2-5. It is nice to get a star in the first but it is just as important to find a star in round 2-5.
uhh….what???
I have not liked the Browns draft strategies, I know some people say these draft experts are bunch of idiots and they know nothing about football and whatever else. But I see so many players who these draft experts say are good and they are good and in their rookie years they are starting for good teams/Super Bowl contending teams. So obviously they know what they are talking about. Every time I hear such player, I just think the Browns could have drafted him but no we had to draft so and so. And guess what so and so eventually is cut in year or two. Our talent evaluation has been horrible and you can’t deny it because if it was not true we would be a lot better than we are and whole lot of people would not have been fired
that is a rant if I’ve ever seen one and its even more angry and pessimistic than rocland.
So you are punishing the new regime for not getting an A because to make up for the incompetence of Phil and Butch? thats ridiculous.
I don’t care if these players become stars, I just want solid football players. I know you can get solid football players 2-5
Wow…already? TJ ward isn’t a solid football player so you are gonna whine? Lauvao isn’t solid? Did you even pay attention at all to their performance so far as rookies? time will tell, but it is definitely WAAAAAAAAAAY to early to say they aren’t solid.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
I don’t see how we could have drafted any better in the last two seasons than we already have…
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 4, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
So delusional, just buy into this Browns crap. Look at the national reviews, Ravens got a solid A for their draft meanwhile I think the Browns may have got a B+ at best and mostly C’s. So it is hard to say we had good draft the last 2 years or even a good draft this year. I’ll tell you what if Ward starts at S, Haden starts in the nickel defense, and Lauvao start at RG, I’ll consider the draft successful. It is not great but at least we will have 3 building blocks for the future.
Alright dude. I am not delusional, you’re just an idiot who is suffering from cognitive dissonance, I say it a lot because a lot of people have it.
Who the fuck gives a shit about the National Reviews? Do they play football? Are they the say all, end all? Are they the ones that shell their money out for tickets to a game? No. I could care less about what they think because half of them don’t even understand football in the first place, it’s ridiculous.
Why do they all have to start now? A good draft doesn’t mean they have to start immediately. A good draft means that we have a good team for the future and can actually call ourselves a competent team. Rookies don’t need to start a.s.a.p. just because they were drafted in the 1st and 2nd, that is a stupid way to look at the grading of a draft.
You seriously have no clue what you’re talking about.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 4, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
OK, whatever dude, you’re right on a team that is rebuilding you should have all your draft picks just learn on the sidelines, yeah that’s going to make us a good in the near future. Instead of being good right away maybe the Browns should adopt the 5 year plan. That’s really smart and you’re calling me a idiot. I guess my assessment of you was right. Delusional.
Okay. Let me get this straight.
You think that a 5-11 team can go into ONE DRAFT and automatically come out and be good right away? How the fuck am I the delusional one? I seriously am interested in this. You have no clue what you are talking about. We were 5-11, how the fuck to we turn into a playoff team through ONE draft of what? 6 players?
Tell me please.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 4, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Listen Dumbass, I’m not saying we have to turn it around in one year. I look at this team and I see no progression. We will probably be 5-11 again. We have a tough schedule this year and they way I see they only have 5 winnable games and who knows if they win those games.
. Instead of being good right away maybe the Browns should adopt the 5 year plan. That’s really smart and you’re calling me a idiot.
I’m not saying we have to turn it around in one year.
You most certainly did say we need to turn it around in a year, that or you have terrible sarcasm skills. and resorting to profanity, bravo.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 4, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
You sure have that sarcasm thing nailed.
"My mother always told me: ‘You will see the light of people when they hit adversity. You’ll get a good sense of their character." - Ironic words from LeBron James
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Sep 4, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m not saying we have to turn it around in one year. I look at this team and I see no progression
well…you obviously haven’t looked hard enough or haven’t truly compared this team to the team that went 1-11.
and they way I see they only have 5 winnable games and who knows if they win those games.
you know why football is great? because every game is ‘winnable". We beat the steelers last year and lose twice in close games to the bengals. The steelers have taken steps back whereas this team added more in the draft than either of those 2 teams. Thats 3 ’winnable’ games. We have 3 more games against teams we beat last year. AND we have another 4 games against teams who were around .500 last year. even a bad team can win against a .500 team so those games are definitely ‘winnable’.
You counted 5 winnable games, I count 11 (10 if revis comes back from his holdout…the jets without him are a .500 team)
you really don’t know how to count or you really don’t understand the concept of ‘winnable’
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
Draft a franchise QB. Done.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Uh, wut? I don’t understand how this goes against what I’m saying.
Also, you don’t need a dictionary to figure that out bro.
Superior=Super, weird!
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 4, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha.Ha. Really smart. It is all about progression not being a competent team. You can call every team in the NFL competent. Is every team going to win the ultimate goal of a championship.
I really don’t understand what you’re trying to say now, your argument is all over the place.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 4, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude you are really starting to sound like one of those Steeler fans that makes crap up as they go along.
"My mother always told me: ‘You will see the light of people when they hit adversity. You’ll get a good sense of their character." - Ironic words from LeBron James
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Sep 4, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
New Orleans may not have been a Superior team (definitely competent and good, they just had a superior QB. Arizona in the regular season really wasn’t a ‘superior team’ they just had a few superior players. the Giants were a wild card team and were more competent than superior. However, they had a superior QB and got hot at the right time. The Steelers in their first SB were also a team that got hot at the right time. I wouldn’t call the Panthers ‘Superior’. ‘Competent’ teams with a couple superior players definitely go to the SB.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
And I’m glad the Ravens got a solid A. I men where are they now?
They have a draft pick with a broken face, a draft pick that’s fat as hell and a very quickly deteriorating secondary.
Also, from the 2008 season they’ve actually gotten worse. YAY, GO RAVENS!
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 4, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Well a lot of people think they are going to the Super Bowl. If I’m a fan I like to see my team in the same sentence as Super Bowl. You just said it draft is about the future, the Raven have depth to withstand a loss of 2 high end draft picks. The Browns not so much. The Browns have tons of holes, we have a aging D-Line, LBs are slow, the secondary is questionable and inexperience with rookie S and nickel CB. I am willing to bet the Ravens will have more victories even with that very quickly deteriorating secondary. Which it is not as bad as advertised by analysts. Their back-up safeties are good not as good as Ed Reed ,but good, their CBs are questionable but I’m sure they are manageable. A lot of good teams don’t have great CBs. Look at the Steelers, good safeties but not too special CBs. It is true what they say it starts in the trenches, good D-line could disguise many ills just like good QB on offense for instance Peyton Manning.
I never said they wouldn’t be good, don’t warp the argument. I said that their draft wasn’t as good as your national reviews say it is.
And what fan doesn’t like to hear their teams name with the word Super Bowl? Wtf? I seriously don’t understand your idiotic arguments.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 4, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Man, you are so stupid, it is ridiculous, I’ll make it very simple, do you want me to go slow. If you draft good players, players play right away, you make progression, maybe win a few more games, the next year same thing, it is like a building block, the more blocks you put the bigger it becomes until eventually in this case you have a great team, one that can win a championship.
You sound really stupid right now man.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 4, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
This really stupid. I’m done. It is like a brick wall. I can see why your name is SpecialBrownie. You are definitely special.
Once again, you made yourself sound even more stupid.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 4, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
For a noob, you’re pretty confident. Chill with the shit talking.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 4, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
These are my opinions so I won’t stop with the shit talking. I’m sorry if I don’t agree with you. Right now I don’t want to diss these players we drafted but from past history, they have not been good. I want to see on Sunday how good they are and not be told by coaches they are progressing well. I no longer believe these coaches anymore. For now on, I want to see with my own eyes.
I meant the shit talking to other users.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 4, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
No you don’t.
And why don’t you be the bigger man then? Don’t a 5 year old “BUT BUT BUT HE DID IT TO ME! WAHHHHHHH”
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 4, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Right now I don’t want to diss these players we drafted but from past history, they have not been good.
THIS sums up EVERYTHING and subtly shows how you TRULY feel. You are pessimistic and know these guys will be bad because of previous regimes that have NOTHING in common with the current one except for the team name and logo.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
By ESPN Ravens got an A and we got like a C+ but they are full of shit over there anyways. The highest I saw the browns was an A- and mostly around a B/B-. I even saw one place where they rated ours higher than the ravens. And you have to remember: it doesn’t matter the reviews not, it matters how they look 3 years from now. you can’t truly judge a draft until 3 years later.
I’ll tell you what if Ward starts at S, Haden starts in the nickel defense, and Lauvao start at RG, I’ll consider the draft successful.
I’ll tell you what…you really didn’t watch the preseason. Lauvao has pretty much won himself the starting RG job and Ward has won himself a safety job (granted, we didn’t have much else there)…and haden was solid…so whats the big deal? you are throwing up your hands and saying these things need to happen, but they pretty much HAVE.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
This is why I drink…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
The booze ain’t working anymore.
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
by golanbatrac on Sep 3, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
wow…a dog on heroin?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
New DBN rule…
When posting a weird and creepy photo please use the Subject Line so we have the option of closing it out!!!!!
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 4, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
z
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
zzzzzzzz
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
zzzzzzzz
"My mother always told me: ‘You will see the light of people when they hit adversity. You’ll get a good sense of their character." - Ironic words from LeBron James
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Sep 3, 2010 7:35 PM EDT reply actions
reply fail
"My mother always told me: ‘You will see the light of people when they hit adversity. You’ll get a good sense of their character." - Ironic words from LeBron James
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Sep 3, 2010 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Jesus. When did this place turn into cleveland.com?
Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.™
When FreddieC got here from cleveland.com…
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 4, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Man, you picked a bad week. It’s get better next week, promise.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 4, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
It looks like we’re shooting for the 3rd closed thread this week…
"My mother always told me: ‘You will see the light of people when they hit adversity. You’ll get a good sense of their character." - Ironic words from LeBron James
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Sep 4, 2010 1:01 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
If you want, I can start talking about politics.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 4, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Jim Brown is a racist!
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 4, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
YEAH!!!
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 4, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok I’m done. Everybody made their point. I’m really sick of this talk. Subtitle states vent about Hardesty hurt. So I vented then I get so much negative talk about my comments, and a whole lot of insults. My thinking is they should have never drafted Hardesty we would not have been in this predicament. But hey, there is always next year. I guess much like the Cubs motta, the Browns motta should be be just that. We’ll have to wait for next year to see if the Hardesty was worthy. Maybe next year we can get a bonafide RT instead of this revolving door situation we have. Maybe we can much younger DL. There is always more cash we can throw away and more wasted picks. Just think we have 8 I think next year, maybe 2 of them will be good. Little by little we get there, I’m just sick of waiting for next year.
Thad Matta. We’re talking some OSU basketball now, obviously.
by Brad D on Sep 4, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
if you want the team to get better they have to take risks. sometimes risks don’t pay off. As far as being tired of wasted picks, it’s hard to be too upset with how we’ve drafted the last 2 years. sure, we weren’t perfect, but no one is. some picks didn’t/won’t work out. deal with it.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
We could have been talking about this, but it would be how Wright was suspended for 8 games by the NFL. a lot of teams take 1st round talent in the 2nd round, just for this reason. you can find a lot of guys who worked out (MJD, Eric Wright, Michael Roos), and others didn’t (Jimmy Williams, Odell Thurman). thats why its a risk, but its a risk you often have to take.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
So delusional, just buy into this Browns crap.
First insult I personally saw in this thread, don’t fling poo if you don’t want it thrown back at you.
"My mother always told me: ‘You will see the light of people when they hit adversity. You’ll get a good sense of their character." - Ironic words from LeBron James
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Sep 4, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait, who the hell are they?
"My mother always told me: ‘You will see the light of people when they hit adversity. You’ll get a good sense of their character." - Ironic words from LeBron James
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Sep 4, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m one of those guys who just reads the threads in the off-season and tries to learn a few things from Rufio et al. before I post during the regular season.
Have to say, read this whole thread…and I’m seriously questioning my home-town loyalties. With such intelligent and thoughtful points as “You can call every team in the NFL NFL competent” and “national reviews say that the Ravens are the best team in the history of the planet” I am really thinking about joining the Ravens community.
by DisplacedBuckeye on Sep 5, 2010 8:25 AM EDT reply actions
wait, you read this entire thread and came away with the idea that the ravens fans have better points? I won’t defend all the stupid crap that was said above, but I can’t see how you can come away with the idea that the people defending the ravens were any better.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Sep 5, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
/facepalm.
I can't believe Cribbs was considered the second best athlete in Cleveland.
LBJ. Lying. Backstabbing. Jackass.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 5, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Your sarc detector needs to be taken in for maintenance.
"My mother always told me: ‘You will see the light of people when they hit adversity. You’ll get a good sense of their character." - Ironic words from LeBron James
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Sep 5, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I would advise to anyone no to draw conclusions on a draft before these guys even play their first NFL game. Could make you look foolish down the line. It’s ok to have opinions especially if you have an eye for talent, but to talk about these things as if the final word has been said is frankly annoying.
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