AFC Divisional Playoffs: Who Do You Hate Most?
by sidehacker on Jan 10, 2011 10:57 AM EST
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PrintIf anyone bothers to follow the NFL after the Browns have been eliminated (it really is difficult for me, personally) they know that the our two biggest rivals will once again meet in the divisional playoffs. I get in the argument quite a lot with friends, actually. Who is the most despicable team: the Pittsburgh Steelers or the Baltimore Ravens?
This is really easy for me. I admit maybe there's a little bias since I have family in Pittsburgh but I hate the Ravens more than any team in all of organized sports. I will take 10000 Pittsburgh Super Bowls in a row before I'll want to live with just one from the Ravens. I like the rivalry that the Steelers and the Browns have, I'm glad that it exists. I'm in a unique situation being raised in a household by a Browns father and a Steelers mother - I know, they're crazy, but I love them.
The Ravens, on the other hand, perfectly symbolize the general front office incompetence that has plagued the Browns in the past decade. The whole "one step forward, two steps back" routine of the organization's progression is frustrating as it is, but it is even worse when the team that triggered this slow struggle through a seemingly endless desert is so enormously successful. Seeing the Ravens win the Super Bowl back in 2000 was one of the most uncomfortable feelings I've ever had, in life, let alone in sports.
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Right now, I think I hate the Browns and Holmgren more than I hate either of those teams.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Mike Holmgren, apparently, 'did some good things'.
I want to recommend this one but……
Forgive my cynicism, i'm still in denial. My sense of community is lost.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 11, 2011 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
It may be an age issue with this one.
Some of us are old enough to remember the Mayflower truck pulling up in the middle of the night in Baltimore, when the Colts snuck out of town. I meet several Ravens fans and they are sympathetic to what happened to us. What were the people of Baltimore supposed to say? “No that’s ok, we don’t want football back.” Some of the older fans call them the Purple Browns, they are run by the Wizard of Oz and who can hate number 82?
The Steelers on the other hand is a rivalry that started with the blue collar misery. Working 16 hour days in the mills and all you have to look forward to is a football game and if the team down the turnpike ruined your only day off, well you wanted to kill someone!
I worked at LTV before it collapsed and believe me, the stuff we would write on the steel being shipped to Pittsburgh, can’t be repeated here.
Our only "Mistake by the lake" was caring what other bucktooth, inbred, unemployed, suicidal, uneducated, depressed, disloyal, rascist burnt out steel towns thought of us!
by Sipeis17 on Jan 10, 2011 12:20 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I worked at LTV before it collapsed and believe me, the stuff we would write on the steel being shipped to Pittsburgh, be repeated here without turning me into a hero.
Fixed.
Stuckey watch: 31/30. Haha! I AM SET YOU UP THE BOMB!!!!
by BrownDawg1409 on Jan 10, 2011 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for the memories.
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is. -- Yogi Berra
by JustPlainBrowns on Jan 16, 2011 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe if I lived in Baltimore and it’s rural areas it would be different, but it’s got to be Pittsburgh by a mile. I do hate he who shall not be named more than I hate Pittsburgh.
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 10, 2011 12:21 PM EST reply actions
the steelers, easily. But I hate the patriots more than the ravens.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
I didn’t see my choice so I’m going to have to do a write-in:
- The Dallas Cowboys
I do believe I will hate them until the day I die.
.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 10, 2011 12:59 PM EST reply actions
(sorry, I know they aren’t even in the AFC, but my vote stands.)
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 10, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
This question for me is something philosophers should ponder — I am not sure it is possible for me to hate either team more.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 10, 2011 4:05 PM EST reply actions
Not even close. The Steelers. After living in that city for three long years, I hate the Steelers with the white hot intensity of a million burning suns. I actually had a Steelers’ sincerely attempt to convince me Barry Foster was greater player than Jim Brown. No Lie. Since the evil old man is no longer affiliated with the Ravens my hatred for them has waned. Still hate them though.
"I don't know what no means"
by BenRapelisberger on Jan 10, 2011 4:36 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
I would have punched that idiot in the face.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 10, 2011 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
Then they’ll sue you and call it a hate crime.
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 11, 2011 3:32 AM EST up reply actions
Steelers.
As I said in the game thread, I can’t hold blame Modell & Co. for the Browns’ ineptitude at this point. Plenty of teams have built contenders in half the time the expansion era Browns have existed.
Plus, I’m moving to Bawlmer next year . . . I have to find some common ground with the Ravens fans there, and it will likely be hating the Steelers.
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Jan 10, 2011 5:04 PM EST reply actions
Poll choice is missing the meteor option. Can’t root for either one. In fact, I am rooting for the NFC in this years playoffs as I can’t stand any of the AFC teams now that the Colts got bounced.
by talonk on Jan 10, 2011 5:12 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
seriously, I hate all four of those teams.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 10, 2011 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
I dislike all the teams, but in order:
1. I can respect the teams that the Patriots are able to produce year in and year out
2. Despite Ray Lewis I think the Ravens contineu good tradition and find ways to win well. They do not seem too dirty
3. The Jets are too pompous and Sanchez is not that good yet. Obviously Edwards is a complete idiot
4. The Steelers are dirty players (Harrison, Hines especially), Roethlisberger is 1 notch ahead of Ray Lewis and 2 notches higher than Vick, and the rest of the team makes me want to puke. Ben’s little smirks in the lst game and Tomlin’s classless call for another touchdown make the Steelers the lowest on the totem pole.
I hope the Seahawks win it all
"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden
Same here.
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 13, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
I voted for “yes”
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Jan 10, 2011 8:23 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
It makes me physically sick to see the Steelers win. Not to mention all the bandwagon fans rubbing it in your face all the time when they don’t even have as many championships as the Browns. It all comes down to age like someone said earlier. Not to mention every Super Bowl they’ve won puts a bad taste in my mouth. There’s ALWAYS controversy when they win those big games. I have no doubt in my mind the organization is dirty and so are some of the players. I’d rather see the Ravens win another Super Bowl than the Steelers. Better yet, I’d like to see the Browns win a Super Bowl!
Steelers, and it isn’t close for me. I honestly feel sick in my stomach watching them win games. it makes me feel angry and hateful, because I know what’s coming the next day from all of the frontrunning, cousin-fucking toads that labor to put a coherent sentence together. its their kind that encourages idiots who think pro football started in 1967.
by Dawg Nuts on Jan 10, 2011 10:48 PM EST reply actions 8 recs
Speaking of putting sentences together, since I’ve become a member on this site, the bounty of riches I’ve come across in the way of an expanded vocabulary is astounding and enlightening. I’ve learned so many new phrases and even new words I feel like I could converse freely with a philosopher and yet also hold my own on a visit to a maximum security prison. Frankly I feel more prepared for life and for that I am thankful.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 11, 2011 8:31 AM EST up reply actions
(I rec’d your post BTW)
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 11, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Nice. This should be the new DBN motto du jour:
Dawgs By Nature – Conversing freely with philosophers, holding our own in maximum security prisons.
Never underestimate the powers of Mike Holmgren.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Jan 11, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, that has a nice ring to it and I think it fits nicely.
I just phoned a cousin-fucking toad I met just last week and he gave it a tongues up.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 11, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Your new word of the day: Derision-What Pittsburgh exhibit towards Cleveland fans.
Forgive my cynicism, i'm still in denial. My sense of community is lost.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 11, 2011 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
Pittsburgh fans that is. I can’t type but I have a decent vocab :).
Forgive my cynicism, i'm still in denial. My sense of community is lost.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 11, 2011 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
REC
Dawgs by Nature -- where Mike Holmgren, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Jan 11, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
I hate both depthlessly, but I am swayed by your eloquence….
Never underestimate the powers of Mike Holmgren.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Jan 11, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
A Steelers fan by any other name still smells like dawg crap!
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is. -- Yogi Berra
by JustPlainBrowns on Jan 16, 2011 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
Steelers by 10,000 Miles, and my dad is a turncoat Ravens fan. There is nothing worse then the Steelers or a douchebag Steeler fan.
P.S. I hate the Jets and Patriots too, so the AFC is totally dead to me right now. Go ANYBODY in the NFC!!!!!
by BrutalMovement on Jan 11, 2011 12:07 AM EST reply actions
I’m pulling for the Seahawks, the whole underdog thing.
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 11, 2011 3:34 AM EST up reply actions
I really don’t have a problem with New England. I’ve started disliking the NYJ this season due to Sexy Rexy and BE. No need to comment on the other AFC “game.” I’m pretty clearly rooting for NE to come out of the AFC.
My hate for NE comes from a couple different places. First, while I believe Tom Brady is an outstanding QB and a future HOFer, I feel he is overrated, especially by ESPN talking heads. More importantly, I hate that they got to keep their stirling image after being caught cheating. I hate that their accomplishments are still looked upon as legitimate and not tainted. I hate that people seem willing to believe that they only taped one game and the league had some sort of reason to destroy all the evidence.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 11, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
My hate for NE comes from a couple different places. First, while I believe Tom Brady is an outstanding QB and a future HOFer, I feel he is overrated, especially by ESPN talking heads. More importantly, I hate that they got to keep their stirling image after being caught cheating. I hate that their accomplishments are still looked upon as legitimate and not tainted. I hate that people seem willing to believe that they only taped one game and the league had some sort of reason to destroy all the evidence.
Yep.
If you haven't watched Inception, do it now. Right now.
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 11, 2011 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
3rded
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 11, 2011 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
I felt some of my “old Friends” won a SB in Baltimore. I don’t care for Art Modell or what he did to Cleveland. The bottom line was that is was a business decision (and dare I say it here, the right one). I don’t like the Ravens for 1 simple reason, they are division foes. They haven’t been division foes all my life and the games haven’t meant squat really, as we haven’t had a truly competitive team in that timespan. Going back to the AFC central Pittsburgh/Cleveland games have been decided by which team didn’t get the shit totally knocked out of it. Pittsburgh in a landslide. Hate ’em.
Forgive my cynicism, i'm still in denial. My sense of community is lost.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 11, 2011 8:14 PM EST reply actions
The bottom line was that is was a business decision (and dare I say it here, the right one).
This is damn near ban worthy.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 12, 2011 12:58 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
while I agree the Steelers are more hateable, I find your lack of hate for the Ravens disturbing. Art Modell ass-raped the city of Cleveland and every Browns fan in the world. He moved the team when he had opportunites to keep it here, and he did it heartlessly. Modell and that organization deserve nothing less than a plague upon their souls for all eternity.
I could eventually forgive the Ravens – when Modell is dead, Ozzie has retired, and there isn’t a single vestige of what was once our team left.
Never underestimate the powers of Mike Holmgren.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Jan 12, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
I could forgive the Ravens once we have more Super Bowl rings than they do.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Ha. I’m behind that as well.
Never underestimate the powers of Mike Holmgren.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Jan 13, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
I’ve said this before, but I don’t hate Baltimore as much because I wasn’t even five when this all happened. As in I have no recollection of it at all. But after I read Bernie’s article and other things about it, it really pisses me off. I’m just thankful that the city was able to fight to keep the team here even though it’s been a bumpy road since.
Still, I think choosing between the Ravens and Steelers is like being asked if you’d rather be stabbed or shot.
The bottom line was that is was a business decision (and dare I say it here, the right one).
This is ridiculous.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 12, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
The bottom line was that is was a business decision….
He was only following orders, the ones given to him by his wallet.
Never underestimate the powers of Mike Holmgren.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Jan 12, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t like the Ravens. Did you not read that? I was just saying it was business. Just like letting go of Mangini. Which was a bad decision as far as i’m concerned. Just like the decision Art Modell made. A decision based on what’s good for the ownership or front office. Not the fans. And while my heart was ripped out too, I can at least understand why it was done and not turn it into some kind of conspiracy theory. For all Art Modell took from me he gave me alot more during the eighties. Take the time and read about what really happened. The voters turned him down in Cleveland. Please read this and comprehend it or ban me. I hear cleveland.com needs at least 1 intelligent voice.
Forgive my cynicism, i'm still in denial. My sense of community is lost.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 12, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
BTW….what if the dollars were yours?
Forgive my cynicism, i'm still in denial. My sense of community is lost.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 12, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
I think this sealed it…….get your inspiration for your next post somewhere else b19k. You come out with a Cam Newton thread after I post about the prototypical AFC north QB. You mention Colt’s floaters. Also a post by me on sunday’s gameday thread. I’m done here.
Forgive my cynicism, i'm still in denial. My sense of community is lost.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 12, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
Touchy much?
Never underestimate the powers of Mike Holmgren.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Jan 12, 2011 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know what you are talking about.
Am I missing something?
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 13, 2011 1:30 AM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t have done what Modell did to Cleveland Browns fans at any price, my friend.
Never underestimate the powers of Mike Holmgren.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Jan 12, 2011 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
I am touchy…i’m tired of the emotions of the fans deciding the fate of this franchise. The fans repeatedly call for change or are incredibly obstinate instead of being patient and letting something take hold or STICK AROUND.
Forgive my cynicism, i'm still in denial. My sense of community is lost.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 12, 2011 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=1798 Try this instead of BS wiki.
Forgive my cynicism, i'm still in denial. My sense of community is lost.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 12, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
The team sold out every game. how much more supportive could the fans have been?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 15, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
The fans sold out a stadium built in the 1930s that seated 70,000+ for football with no amenities, crappy site lines (posts for crying out loud! there were posts!). Modell was right that it was a crappy stadium, but he did nothing (nothing!) to improve it, instead choosing to nickel and dime the Indians.
"Magic would be getting productivity out of Crowe or Valbuena. I’ll admit we could use a little luck, but that’s not the same thing." - Jay
by woodsmeister on Jan 17, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
and I’m tired of people acting like they understand what drives the decisions of a multimillion dollar organization. what makes you think the fans calling for change influenced anything? has anyone ever considered that these people get to the highest level of their sport for a reason? whether or not they ultimately succeed doesn’t mean the decisions were wrong at the time they were made.
Let’s get this straight.
Eric Mangini was fired not because fans wanted him fired, because Mike Holmgren wanted him fired.
If you think Mike Holmgren cares what I or anyone else on the internet thinks, I have a bridge for sale. I am tired of everyone acting like keeping Mangini would have guaranteed success around here.
I will side with the guy with a Superbowl ring over anyone else.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 13, 2011 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
I’ve never said that keeping Mangini would have guaranteed success, but for every first year coach that was listed by I believe BB there’s 10 Chris Palmers, Butch Davises, and Romeo Crennels. I think that keeping around Mangini for 1 more year, with Heckert drafting, that he would be able to build farther upon what he had and be able to lead us to success, but I’ve never acted like it was a given, I don’t think anyone, even Golan whom seems the most pissed about Mangini getting canned, has.
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 13, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
This is the way I see it.
Mangini was never going to make it. All the lovey-dovey quotes, all the crap didn’t matter. When Holmgren was hired the writing was on the walls.
Keeping Eric Mangini another season wasn’t going to do anything but delay the inevitable for one more season. Why not do it now? Mangini wasn’t winning anything next season. He was a dead man walking.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 13, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
If that’s the case I think it was awful of them to keep him around for this past season, and they aught to be criticized for that.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 13, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
And that’s fair.
I truly think the four game winning streak at the end of the season made it damn near impossible to fire him.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 13, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
First off, Mike Holmgren was brought in because Randy couldn’t deal with the fans. Ergo, Mangini was fired because of the fans through the reasoning of someone put in the place to do so because of the fans. At times i’m certain I would be very unhappy if MH looked to SBN or any other internet outlet for help with his decision making (Marty Mo). Secondly, I was posting about a simple question. Who do I hate more. I was not glorifying Modell, I think he’s a rat-bird-turd but I feel he left for a better deal or, as it has been repeatedly posted, “the right one”. That doesn’t make me hate that team for their success since leaving. I also don’t get regularly bombarded by Ravens fans. They know their place in that they got a team back. So most of them don’t piss in my Toasted Brownio’s like Steeler’s fans. You can read into my post whatever you want, but i’m pretty sure I do have it “straight”.
Forgive my cynicism, i'm still in denial. My sense of community is lost.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 13, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Firing Mangini had nothing to do with the fans and neither did hiring Holmgren. If Lerner wanted someone to deal with the fans he would have hired a public relations guy not a President of Football Operations. Last I checked, dealing with the fans was nowhere on Big Mike’s agenda. Also, I don’t know if you know the situation around the move as well as you think you do. Cleveland bent over backwards and contorted ourselves into a pretzal many times to try to get him to keep the team where it belongs. Also, you must not interact with many Ratbird fans.
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 13, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
So if I offered you a renovated house or a brand new house and money, you’d take the renovated house…I get it. As far as PoFO, he still is the focal point of the organization because of the fans crying for better leadership originally. And lastly, not many Ravens fans no, but the ones I do come across are generally more well-behaved than asshole Steelers fans.
Forgive my cynicism, i'm still in denial. My sense of community is lost.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 13, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
A renovated house in the neighborhood I’ve lived in for 50 years or a new one in a shithole city? I think I’ll stay in my neighborhood, you couldn’t pay me enough to move to Baltimore.
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 14, 2011 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
First off, Mike Holmgren was brought in because Randy couldn’t deal with the fans. Ergo, Mangini was fired because of the fans through the reasoning of someone put in the place to do so because of the fans.
No. Holmgren was fired because Randy Lerner to cluterf*&%ed the Mangini hiring. He put the cart before the horse, and tried to make a horrendous front office work.
When he hired Holmgren it was to fix this mess. This franchise had become a complete joke. We had a coach who didn’t talk to the GM. We had a GM who had no idea his star WR was traded until the media told him about it!
Since then, we have a GM who knows what he is doing, an actual tier of responsibility, and an actual football organization.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 13, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
It seems to me Lerner could have sorted out some of the mess with Mangini. Somebody’s head had to roll (Kokinis). He got stars in his eyes when he talked to Holmgren and brought him in and gave him complete control of the franchise because he didn’t want the mess or the media (fans) on him.
Don't get me wrong, I dislike the Ravens and Steelers just as much as anyone here. If I did not respect winning and sound decision making, I would lack moral character. I don't jump on bandwagons and i'm not easily swayed.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 13, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
When we start winning we’ll all be glowing and high-fiving. I’m glad we have disparate opinions. Gives us something to do.
Don't get me wrong, I dislike the Ravens and Steelers just as much as anyone here. If I did not respect winning and sound decision making, I would lack moral character. I don't jump on bandwagons and i'm not easily swayed.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 13, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
No doubt. It’s no fun when everyone agrees.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 13, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe i’m the only one who remembers all the Aston Villa comments.
Don't get me wrong, I dislike the Ravens and Steelers just as much as anyone here. If I did not respect winning and sound decision making, I would lack moral character. I don't jump on bandwagons and i'm not easily swayed.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 13, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
I really don’t care if he likes soccer more than football. he still signs the checks, and that’s all his job with the browns should entail.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 14, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think Lerner want’s to be a hands on owner (thank God.)
He wants to hire someone to run this ship, and he can show up and hold trophies and sign big checks (at least that’s how it seems to me.)
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 13, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
Woo Hoo on holding trophies!!
Don't get me wrong, I dislike the Ravens and Steelers just as much as anyone here. If I did not respect winning and sound decision making, I would lack moral character. I don't jump on bandwagons and i'm not easily swayed.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 13, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t have been so goddamn irresponsible with my money as an owner. the fact is, he did a lot of crappy things that lost him money (some of which weren’t in the best interest of the fans in the first place) and then he solves this by screwing the fans who gave him the money to lose. He is no better than bernie Madoff or any guy who screwed people out of money because of his incompetency/deviousness.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I believe this.
Don't get me wrong, I dislike the Ravens and Steelers just as much as anyone here. If I did not respect winning and sound decision making, I would lack moral character. I don't jump on bandwagons and i'm not easily swayed.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 13, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
technically it was a business decision that he made. if you truly want to be technical, the decision to move was not made because he personally wanted to see us suffer (though I do believe some of his dealings with the city made it more pleasurable for him). However, it was still a godawful move and though a business decision, a decision to smooth over his managerial mistakes because of his incompetency. He wasn’t man enough to take the fall and say “my bad” and instead took it out on the city. It was a classless move, through and through.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I suggest you read up on Art Modell’s business practice’s before we act like the man had no other options.
Name me one other NFL owner that went bankrupt. The man is/was an idiot that screwed the Indians for years and threw a temper tantrum when the Indians no longer bowed to him.
Art Modell was a crook.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 13, 2011 1:21 AM EST up reply actions
Seriously, and NFL franchise is like a license to print money.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 13, 2011 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
You have no idea what you are talking about. Please read this post [Why Modell moved the Browns], which details exactly what happened in order for Modell to move the team.
In a nnutshell, Modell made so many business mistakes, he had to move the team. What he should have done was sell the team to an owner who would have left the franchise in Cleveland.
by talonk on Jan 14, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I like the write-up, I think I even read it last year. I don’t think I miss-understood anything. I said it was the right decision for Modell at the time. He was an ass-hole of epic proportions. He wasted his money and he tried to suck Cleveland dry. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t the right decision for him or any other idiot. I was so glad we kept our heritage and got a new team. I suppose I could have left out the “right decision” part but it still doesn’t preclude me to hate the Ravens more than the Steelers because of the actions of one man. Although on an emotional level I, too, was angry/hurt/resentful that they won what should have been our SB. After thinking about it for years now I am of the opinion that he did what he felt he had to do. I don’t even hate him anymore. I just see him for what he is. A dilapidated, broken, greedy old troll who destroyed his own legacy and crushed the people who tried to please him. I hope he enjoys the proverbial rock he lives under. Can we just move on to LeBron now? (j/k)
I like to fly under the radar and stir it up.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 18, 2011 8:50 AM EST up reply actions
I said it was the right decision for Modell at the time
What the leaders of Enron did was the right decision for them at the time.
What Bernie madoff did was the right decision for him at the time.
Just because it is the right decision for a person in the short term does NOT make it the best decision.
Even Adam Smith believed that self-interested pursuit of profit was wrong.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Still beating this horse? The Baltimore Ravens sure ain’t Bernie Madoff or Enron. WTF.
I like to fly under the radar and stir it up.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 21, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
you know, you were still beating the horse by saying that it was the right decision for modell at the time.
Sure modell wasn’t those guys but in my mind he was just as bad. He also did what was best for him at the time. that doesn’t make it right. There is a thing called business ethics and he forgot about them somewhere along the way.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Which fan base do you hate (dislike) more?
Hi all, newbie here to DBN. To me, this is easily Pittspuke fan. The fan base is like a disease, a viral infection gone wild. It’s full of bandwagoners – like the ones that were watching football on TV in 1979 in their Superman underoos – some child of a mulleted garbage man in Topeka, Kansas that thought the colors were cool, and decided to jump on a team with some trophies. It’s even worse nowadays.
If you explain to younger Stooler fan that the Browns won 25 championships (including NFL titles, conference, and divisional titles), before the pathetic yellow sissy toweled excuse for a franchise won their first, they look at you as if though you are speaking pig latin. My father (God rest his soul), had the good fortune of living through all of the Browns glory days. He used to talk about the Steelers as second class citizens to the Browns (which they most certainly were).
Of course, hate is a strong word just embellishing ….a little bit… True hatred should be saved for the likes of Art Modell. I will always love Steelers Browns games no matter the records. I’ve actually been to a few Browns Steelers games in Pittsburgh and the fans weren’t that bad – maybe because we’ve been pathetic the last several years. I have a few close friends that bleed black and yellow mustard (it’s not gold), and yes, although they have mullets, I still enjoy the friendships. But definitely Stooler fan gets the most of my disdain.
If you have never seen the “Stoolers” series on YouTube, I highly recommend it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGImBOl_tPo
Browns Nation Forever.
Life moves pretty fast. If don't stop and look around once in a while you could miss it. - Ferris Bueller
Thanks fellow Bernie disciple…great profile pick BTW. Philip Rivers ra-tard face, classic.
Life moves pretty fast. If don't stop and look around once in a while you could miss it. - Ferris Bueller
He lost a bet.
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 12, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
Damn youPhillip RiversChansi Stuckey
fixed
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 13, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
HA! Good point!
I still can’t believe it.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 13, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
some child of a mulleted garbage man in Topeka, Kansas that thought the colors were cool
This was really funny.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 12, 2011 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
I cannot hate, as a Brown’s fan, any entity more than the the Pittsburgh Steelers organization. I do reserve the right however, to respect any such organization as deemed fit for said respect such as the Pittsburgh Steelers organization when said organization is run by a family as respectable as the Rooney family. A winning tradition is evident and by default respect is due. I will not overlook Hines Ward or Ben Roethlisberger as complete detriments to society regardless of the respect I bestow on the afforementioned organization or controlling football interests.
Forgive my cynicism, i'm still in denial. My sense of community is lost.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 12, 2011 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
Flag for respecting the hypocritical Rooney family.
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 12, 2011 11:16 PM EST up reply actions
they “did some good things”, but then again you know who else also did good things…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
apparently Holmgren did some good things. Its only conjecture at this point.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 13, 2011 8:12 AM EST up reply actions
I respect the winning tradition in Pittsburgh as much as I don’t like it. And the philosophy of not choosing a new coach every two years has paid them dividends. Geez, this is a football post. I don’t care if they rape their sisters. Let’s not get into semantics. Al Lerner actually helped facilitate the Brown’s move too. Should I be mad? I only rely on capable reasoning for my opinions. Not blissful incognizance and unrelenting emotion. I’m only speaking of football and the business of football.
Forgive my cynicism, i'm still in denial. My sense of community is lost.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 13, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
“I do reserve the right however, to respect any such organization as deemed fit for said respect such as the Pittsburgh Steelers organization when said organization is run by a family as respectable as the Rooney family.”
Here you go boss. Here’s your respectable Rooney’s at their best. Enjoy:
A winning tradition is evident and by default respect is due. CHIEF.
Don't get me wrong, I dislike the Ravens and Steelers just as much as anyone here. If I did not respect winning and sound decision making, I would lack moral character. I don't jump on bandwagons and i'm not easily swayed.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 13, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
By default of a winning tradition…..I didn’t even look at your link…i’m talking winning….they win, they win a lot. I respect winning. Even if the decisions aren’t fan friendly.
Don't get me wrong, I dislike the Ravens and Steelers just as much as anyone here. If I did not respect winning and sound decision making, I would lack moral character. I don't jump on bandwagons and i'm not easily swayed.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 13, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
"Winning is not a sometime thing, it’s an all time thing. You don’t win once in a while, you don’t do things right once in a while, you do them right all the time. Winning is habit. Unfortunately, so is losing."
-Vince Lombardi
The Rooney family wins and though I hate it, I respect it.
Don't get me wrong, I dislike the Ravens and Steelers just as much as anyone here. If I did not respect winning and sound decision making, I would lack moral character. I don't jump on bandwagons and i'm not easily swayed.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 13, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
that’s it? that’s your only quality upon which you base respect? Character doesn’t matter to you?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 13, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
No, that’s not it. I merely said I have to respect the Steeler’s organization for winning consistently. I will tear tear the Rooneys up on “Did he really rape my sister.com”.
Don't get me wrong, I dislike the Ravens and Steelers just as much as anyone here. If I did not respect winning and sound decision making, I would lack moral character. I don't jump on bandwagons and i'm not easily swayed.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 13, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
Then this part of the thread should end because you and I will never agree. I don’t believe you should keep quasi criminals on your squad to win games.
Your own Lombardi quote says you are to do things RIGHT all the time. They don’t.
Yeah, I should have been more specific. I will tolerate a lot with athletes since they are basically spoiled 12 year old boys with a ton of cash.
What I cannot tolerate is violence of any kind towards women. Please point out a list of Browns players that have that on their blotter and I will stop support of that player.
But the main point remains. No one holds up Cleveland (or any other franchise) as the moral standard in the NFL like they do the Rooneys for some reason.
The only thing I’ve heard about Wright is that he sold weed in college.
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 18, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
Charged with sexual assault (Rape) in March 2005. Charges later dropped per articles in USA Today and Washington Post.
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is. -- Yogi Berra
by JustPlainBrowns on Jan 18, 2011 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
Wow, I haven’t been around for the holidays and when I come back here’s a guy who defends Modell’s “business move” and then states he respects the Rooney’s.
The same Rooney’s who allow people to abuse women either physically or sexually as long as they win games but bounces people out of town if they are third string or in a contract dispute. Classy all the way.
By the way, I actually live in Pittsburgh so you guys know my answer.
Don’t forget shooting at police helicopters.
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 13, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
Growing up in the DC area but with Cleveland parents I was raised a Browns fan… but now my sister is a Browns fan first and a Ravens fan second, which makes me want to throw up
I just threw up a little too.
Forgive my cynicism, i'm still in denial. My sense of community is lost.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 13, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
Hate the Steelers more than any other team. Hate seeing their shit in our stores, hate seeing their flags at random business of ours, hate everything about them. Sure, I can count a huge number of west Pennsylvanians here, but it’s reaching epidemic proportions. Why I even got into football was to help promote Cleveland and it’s culture, and eclipse the black and yellow crap that keeps emerging in the wrong places. A sports team is not a product you pick up off a shelf. It’s a representation of an entire region. With that being said, I hope the Ravens kick their asses. If that means Baltimore winning the superbowl, so be it. So long as the Steelers stay down.
Adam Foote still blows!
Yet another reason for my hatred of the Cowboys…
A poll on NFL.com (looking at teams with new head coaches).
(171824 votes tallied at last glance…):
Who’ll make the playoff first?
9% – John Fox, Broncos
13% – Leslie Frazier, Vikings
47% – Jason Garrett, Cowboys
23% – Jim Harbaugh, 49ers
4% – Ron Rivera, Panthers
3% – Pat Shurmur, Browns ** :-(
Even though the Cowboys might arguably be the favorite – still makes my stomach turn. The Cowboys could start next season at 1-6 and they will still be all we will hear about ad nauseum in the national sports media.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 15, 2011 1:56 PM EST reply actions
I think it’s either Frazier or Harbaugh.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 15, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
To be fair, they have a lot of talent and started showing it under Garrett at the end of the season.
I don’t think it’s any surprise that the most talented rosters and the teams who did the best this season have the double-digit votes%s.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I do not understand all the hate.
You people need to find higher priorities like raising well adjusted families and working toward successful careers.
I have a wonderful family, my fiancee and I are both nurses in a well respected psych hospital and my kids are well adjusted. I can’t speak for everyone else here but Dawgs by Nature has some of the most insightful and intelligent fans in all of sports. I read posts on here that are more insightful than anything the national media has to offer. This is a football post. It’s all in fun. So quit trolling around here and go practice what you preach my friend.
I like to fly under the radar and stir it up.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 18, 2011 7:45 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Rec
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 18, 2011 8:48 AM EST up reply actions
It ain’t hard to raise well adjusted families. Raising well adjusted Cleveland Browns fanatics, now that can be challenging sometimes. But, we will never give up. Never!
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is. -- Yogi Berra
by JustPlainBrowns on Jan 18, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
A little abstract hate is good for the soul.
Never underestimate the powers of Mike Holmgren.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Jan 18, 2011 9:20 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
REC
I like to fly under the radar and stir it up.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 21, 2011 9:33 PM EST up reply actions
If you are a Pittsburgh fan that doesn’t hate Cleveland you are probably only 15 and don’t know any better.
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 18, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
that really puts me in a tough spot. how do I choose?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 19, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
New poll.
I like to fly under the radar and stir it up.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 21, 2011 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
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