Browns 1st round pick
by FinKidKid on Jan 11, 2011 9:22 AM EST
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So after looking at mock drafts for the last few weeks I've noticed about 70% of them have us taking a cornerback. I know joe haden has panned out well for us with our last 1st round pick, but I'm not convinced that we need another one right now. I know we've lost lots of receivers in coverage this year, but it's tough to say if the pass rush wasn't enough.
Right now i think this mock draft has it right: Mock 2011 Draft - Round 1
Let me know what you think we'll do with our first round pick.
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Personally i wouldn’t mind the Browns going out there and getting a Newton or a Jake Locker or the DE from Iowa.
Wow, hell no.
If you haven't watched Inception, do it now. Right now.
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 11, 2011 9:31 AM EST up reply actions
I would.
Columbus til I die, Columbus til I die. I know I am, I swear I am, Columbus til I die!
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by Andrew Tolliver on Jan 11, 2011 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
Why the heck would you want Locker?
Mike Marra is the worst Division 1 Starter in college basketball
by TheRealSlimShady on Jan 11, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
If he’s available in the 5th round, I’d take a flyer on him.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 11, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
On a random note I played against Jake Locker in high school when he was at Ferndale. He single handedly beat our ass and was the most amazing athlete i have ever seen. But i dont think the Browns needs him
Holmgren for President, of the World
played against Ted Ginn Jr. and he single handedly beat our team, scored the final 21 points to come from behind (technically final 18 but you get it) and was the single most amazing athlete i have ever seen, and look how that worked out for him, so so NFL receiver, I would be furious if we drafted Locker.
Are you serious? If we picked up Peterson, we’d have the most dangerous secondary in the NFL. The pass rush would look better, the QB would never have a place to throw to. We can move Sheldon to FS and Ward to SS, (positions they’d be more suited for) and the secondary would be set for a decade. If Peterson is there, take him.
If you haven't watched Inception, do it now. Right now.
The 2 guys in the draft that you just sprint to the podium with the card and a chit eating grin are AJ Green and Peterson. You don´t think about trading or going in a different direction. Thanks to Luck – I imagine both will be long gone. So I say – trade down and get Blackmon later if he runs a nice 40.
Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"
Yes, If they are both gone, we trade down. There is no one there that high we can use at that pick and not overpay him by a whole helluva lot.
If you haven't watched Inception, do it now. Right now.
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 11, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
Thats what other teams will think too though.
Mike Marra is the worst Division 1 Starter in college basketball
by TheRealSlimShady on Jan 11, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
other teams run a 4-3
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 11, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
There will be a rookie cap.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 11, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t care about Blackmon’s 40.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I am with this. He’s one of the elite and reliable guys in this draft and if you can get elite at #6, you need elite.
Fairley and Dareus have a shot to be elite but I don’t know if either are reliable guys. Luck would have been the elite guy. Amukamara is going to be very good, but I don’t know if he is elite. Cam Heyward is going to be very good but I don’t know if he is elite. Bowers is bigtime hit or miss in my mind. Green is going to be elite but WRs are scary. Quinn is boom or bust in my eyes as well.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I totally agree. If peterson drops to us, we take him no questions asked. he is just that talented.
I am not as 100% of Amakamura at 6, but I can definitely see him being worth the pick.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I definitely understand this. Amukamara is a bit below, but he is still extremely high that I would seriously consider taking him at 6 and probably would (but the difference is that I wouldn’t hesitate to take Peterson). They are both ridiculous and both very likely worth our pick.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I’d be psyched for either a WR or CB, but first round CBs have a much better track record than first round WRs
What’s the basis for this statement?
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 11, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
The actual draft/career results of CBs.
Think of an elite CB, then ask what round he was drafted in. The answer is 1.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
This is definitely true. CB is one of a few positions where sometimes you have to splurge early. There are only a few good CBs that come to mind (Courtland Finnegan, Dre Bly) that weren’t drafted early.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
My man Leigh Bodden.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 13, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
thats another one. I really like the guy, and he is probably at the courtland finnegan level (though without the dirty play, and I think he was a bit better at this point) and I was thinking more about guys who can be a legitimate #1 CB. Those guys are even harder to find out of the first than just plain “good CBs”
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
courtland finnegan is liable to come and find you and punch you for that comment…
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 14, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Got that, but that does not mean that there are not plenty of CB busts from the 1st round as well. And my question was what the evidence was that WRs bust more than CBs in the first.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 13, 2011 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
Roy Williams, Carlos Rodgers, Mike Williams, DHB, Ted Ginn, Mecham, Craig Davis, Antonio Gonzolez, Troy Williamson, Reggie Williams, Michael Clayton, Rashaun Woods, Bryant Johnson, Donte Stallworth, Ashlie Lelie, Koren Robinson, Rod Gardener, Freddie Mitchell, Peter Warrick, Travis Taylor, Sylvester Morris, R. Jay Soward…..
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I think first round wr expectations are set higher than first round cb’s. If you draft wr in round 1, then you want that 1,000 yard number 1 wr and nothing less. With cb, you want that shutdown cb. If the cb turns out to be a servicable number 2, then it’s not as bad of a pick. This is my opinion, because of the amount of wr-cb ratio in the nfl. I could be wrong about that though.
and very few guys on that list were ever a “servicable number 2” Wide Receiver. Gonzo was when healthy and guys like Clayton, Lelie, and Stallworth were for a year or two. However the only one who was a “servicable #2” for an extended period of time was Roy Williams, and he sucks now.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
There are at least 5 guys on that list that were taken because of speed, and not a true wr skill set. You can’t train speed but you can make a wr better. Looks like it’s failed quit a few times.
and there were a lot of guys (reggie Williams, Michael Clayton, etc…) that weren’t elite speed guys but just didn’t pan out overall. There are very few guys on that list however where their only true skill was speed. I can think of DHB, Ginn, Stallworth and maybe Lelie. However that still leaves a ton of busts.
WR is also a much easier position to get in later rounds. while many elite players do come from earlier rounds, its much easier to find a diamond in the rough at WR than at CB or QB B19K talks about it Here. Chris Carter, TO, and Jimmy Smith for example were all drafted after the 1st round.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Who on that list is a serviceable #2?
When the CB you draft in the first round isn’t a very good #2 (with a late first rounder) or at least a good #1, he’s a bust. Feel free to compile a list.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Mike Williams right now (but he was a disastrous bust for Detroit). Roy Williams kinda.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 14, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
That’s fair. Still a really high bust rate.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
And a position where stars/#1s come from other rounds (Coltson, Marshall, Jackson, Boldin, Jackson, etc.)
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Great? I think that’s a little far.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
But also, that’s two guys out of all of the cornerbacks. If you want a stud CB, he’s going to come from the first unless you are absurdly lucky.
If you want a stud WR, yes there are guys like Fitz and Andre and Calvin who were drafted high, but there are many guys who are both nightmare matchups and guys who produce who were drafted later.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Right.
It’s all about ratio. If 90% of the elite CB’s are first rounders, that is where you go for your CB’s. If 50% of the elite WR’s come from the first rounders, then it isn’t that big of a deal.
And Rashean Mathis sucks now.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 17, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly. And to B19K below, I don’t think those %s are too far off either. Looking at it purely by pro bowl appearances and/or elite seasons (like you did last year for WRs), it seems like they would be accurate.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Rashard Anderson, Ahmed Plummer, Willie Middlebrooks, Jamar Fletcher, Derrick Gibson, Mike Rumph, Andre Woolfork, Sammy Davis, Ahmad Carroll, Pacman Jones, Marlin Jackson, Tye Hill, Aaron Ross, Leodis McKelvin. I will throw mike jenkins in there too, he was awful this year. It looks like you started your list from 2000, so thats where i started mine. There were maybe 3 or 4 more wr’s taken from then to now. So a list of 22 and a list of 15 isnt that far off.
There is somewhere close to 50 wr’s taken in that time. So let’s say you missed a couple of busts, and say there were 45 cb’s taken. Wr’s would have a 50% chance of bust and cb would have a 30% chance of bust. This is without labeling anyone a bust from the past 2 drafts. So there could be higher percentages.
Hold your horses — those guys can definitely turn into competent starters.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 14, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
leodis McKelvin is a very solid #2 and is still young.
Pacman Jones when in the league is definitely an excellent #3 or a decent #2. He was actually doing okay in Cincy but he got a neck injury.
Marlin Jackson is a solid #2 who has had serious injuries the last couple years. Not sure if he is a “bust”
I would also call Aaron ross a decent #2.
Actually his starting point was in 1999
Since 1999, 20 WRs have made the pro bowl that weren’t drafted in the first round. Compare that to 8 CBs making pro bowls after the 1st round and 5-6 QBs (I might have counted Schaub twice). CBs are drafted outside of the 1st round almost as much as WRs. So WRs outside of the first are twice as likely to be pro bowlers. This also includes a couple WRs and a couple CBs that made the pro bowl as returners (and 18/6 is a bigger margin than 20/8).
a good CB is also extremely hard to find as a UDFA. very rarely do UDFAs turn out to be pro bowlers. the best UDFA CB IMO since 1999 was leigh bodden. Since ’99, about 4 WRs were UDFAs and went onto the pro bowl (though only 3 for being a true WR) including Wes Welker and Miles Austin. There is also a pro bowl UDFA QB in Tony Romo
It is easy to find WRs anywhere that turn out to be pro bowlers, whereas CBs and QBs you often have to splurge early on.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Jackson and Ross were both benched. Pacman has to be considered a bust even if he has talent beecause of off the field issues.
semantics, and missing my main point.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Mckelvin is the third string cb on buffalo too. I have based my busts off of rufio’s busts, and his standard of bust. He has a few on his list that fall under your point. More wr’s are invited to the pro bowl than cb’s. If there is one more reserve spot, then that means 13 different wr’s had a chance to make the pro bowl. A cb rely’s on his own skills to make the pro bowl, where as a wr can have a down year do to, qb problems or oline problems. As of right now i would rate tramon williams better than bodden as udfa cb.
I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt on mckelvin, but the dude is terrible. He isn’t even a starting number 2 cb, let alone a solid number 2. He got playing time this year when mcgee got injured. Tavaris Jackson torched him this season, but he did manage an int. His first since his rookie season. He did manage an int against delhomme, but i think i know everybody’s opinion about that.
I wouldn’t. Naybe in a year or so if Willians keeps inproving. Plus bodden is over 30 so he is inherently going to get worse.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
tramon williams is WAY better than bodden.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 18, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly, I haven’t seen bodden play for over a year and maybe he has regressed some with age.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Was he the guy always complaining of headaches?
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is. -- Yogi Berra
by JustPlainBrowns on Jan 18, 2011 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know about complaining, but Brodney Pool always had headache/concussion problems.
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 18, 2011 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
He has been fantastic this season.
And DeAngelo Hall made the Pro Bowl over here. The Pro Bowl voting is horrendous.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 18, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
As browns8 said, we are going by Rufio’s definition and in this case JAckson and Ross would be busts, so no it’s not semantics.
you really want an argunent of who is a bust or not? I don’t.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
okay, fine. you really seen to want to debate this…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Are you being intentionally dense to annoy me? I’m not even part of this debate.
This is what rufio said about WRs:
Who on that list is a serviceable #2?
When the CB you draft in the first round isn’t a very good #2 (with a late first rounder) or at least a good #1, he’s a bust. Feel free to compile a list.
Using that VERY SAME DEFINITION for CBs, both Ross and Marlin Jackson would be considered busts since they were BENCHED aka the 3rd best corner on their rosters.
Debate over.
He’s right.
Marlin Jackson and Aaron Ross are busts.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 15, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
Are you being intentionally dense to annoy me? I’m not even part of this debate
you are obviously now part of it. you interjected yourself into it.
I am not being intentionally dense, I am being intentionally apathetic about a subject I care so little about, I am surprised I am still commenting on it.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
adjective
Definition:
indifferent and unenergetic: not taking any interest in anything, or not bothering to do anything
There is nothing apathetic about beingBross
by Villeslgr on Jan 16, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You were fine dicussing all the wr busts. It wasn’t even a debate until you started refuting all of the cb busts. It was simply a comparision to see how close it actually was. From the first few comments, you would have thought the bust rate was 70% and 10%. It proved to be 44% and 33%, which is closer than most would have thought.
I didn’t think it was 70-10%. I knew that CBs bust a fair amount in the 1st round but its much harder to find elite guys outside of the 1st. I should never had even made an issue of guys I personally didn’t think were busts. it detracted from the point and started everyone trying to criticize my point when those guys were irrelevant to the basic point I meant to make.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
The debate started when it was said, cb’s have a much better track record in the first, than wr’s. There was no proof for this. We figured there were 22 wr busts and 15 cb busts in this time period. It gives wr’s a 44% bust rate and cb’s a 33% bust rate. (50 wr’s were drafted and 45 cb’s were drafted) So cb’s do have a better track record, but it’s closer than what most would think.
As far as round one being the only round for elite cb’s a case can be made for: asante samuel, rashean mathis, courtland finnegan, charles tillman, ronde barber, and the emerging brandon flowers. Not to mention 4 undrafted that are starters: jabari greer, tramon williams, brent grimes and bodden(if he wasnt injured) As far as aaron ross being a bust, he is 27 and benched for two non first round picks.
The starting point was 2000, troy edwards was the only bust (cb or wr) in that first round, and he wasn’t on his list.
naybe he nissed one (sorry, ny n key isn’t working), but tory holt was on there and he was 1999.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
If we are including incredibly talented guys who played well but make-it-rain-ed themselves out of the league I could probably throw a few more WRs in there.
Now list the #1 WRs and the #1 CBs in the league and the rounds they come from.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
14 #1 wr’s are from the first round and 15 #1 cb’s are from the first round. If chris gamble is still a #1, then it’s 16 for cb’s.
List, not number. I don’t care who is the #1 in the worst defensive backfield in the league, and I do care about studs who aren’t the #1 because they play behind an all-pro.
Who are the top 10 WRs in the game?
Fitz, Johnson, Johnson, Colston, Jackson, Marshall, Austin, Wayne, Welker, White are mine.
Of those, 5 didn’t come from the first round. I would be willing to entertain DeSean Jackson or Greg Jennings for VJ or Welker.
Who are the top 10 CB in the league?
Nnamdi, Champ, Revis, Woodson, Rodgers-Cromartie, Cromarie, Haden (yeah I said it), Samuel, Hall, Joseph.
Others I’d be willing to entertain: McCourty, Mathis, Finnegan, Trufant, Jenkins, Winnefield.
Even if you argued for all of those non-first rounders to be in the top 10, you are looking at 3/10.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
My top 5 Wr’s.
1. Johnson
2. Wayne
3. White
4. Fitzgerald
5. Marshall
My top 5 Cb’s
1. Nnamdi
2. Revis.
3. Woodson
4. Bailey
5. Samuel
As of right now, talent and production wise, i consider these to be the elite at their posistions. It is dead even, with 4 first rounders each. I also agree with your list of top ten. Great Cb’s stay consistant with the first round and Wr’s don’t. What Jenkins cb are you talking about?
My top 5 WRs:
1. Joe Thomas
2. Joe Thomas
3. Joe Thomas
4. Joe Thomas
5. Joe Thomas
Top 5 CB’s:
1. Joe Haden
2. Joe Thomas
3. Joe Thomas
4. Joe Thomas
5. Joe Thomas
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I’m trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Ricky Henderson
by dawgtribe on Jan 19, 2011 9:37 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
nice effort, but you made one tragic error…
by Dawg Nuts on Jan 19, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
There’s no way Wayne is in the top 5. Absolutely no way. Specifically because these positions’ “production” is reliant on so many things other than their own talent and execution. Production is significantly irrelevant.
And your cutting of the top-10 down to the top-5 is cute, but making the cut at an arbitrary point in order to support your point doesn’t fly and basically admits to me that you know I’m right.
Sure, top 10 is arbitrary too, but it makes more sense to point out the elite tier of talent for each position. For CBs, it’s all first rounders. For WRs, it isn’t. I was trying to be more fair and bend to a round 10 and to give you some leniency on the rankings to show just how misled your position is, but clearly you are going to continue to hold your position regardless of how superior my argument is.
Superior WRs are found in later rounds more often than superior CBs, plain and simple.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
This guy doesn’t base his arguments on logic, just the ol’ Butch Davis gut feeling.
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 20, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
i agreed with your point rufio, i have already said that. How is reggie wayne not a top 5 wr? 9 straight seasons without missing a game, and 7 straight seasons with over 1000 recieving yards. If we arent basing the top tier of players off of talent and execution, then what are we?
I can’t consider Wayne a top 5 WR because the statistics (“production”) of both of those positions rely heavily on factors outside of their own control. CBs can’t get INTs if no one throws at them, WRs don’t get yards if QBs don’t throw to them.
Peyton Manning made Jacob Tamme look like a pro bowler for parts of this season. Defenses worry about every target Manning has, making it easier on Wayne versus, say, Calvin Johnson who takes a lot of the other team’s defensive attention and produces despite not having a lot of other people to draw that attention.
I am probably too hard on Wayne, but I really don’t see him in the top 5. Take Marshall or Jennings and put him on the Delhomme Browns, and I think you still have a 1000 yard receiver. Take Wayne and put him on the Delhomme Browns, and I am not so sure.
Credit him for not missing games due to injury, for producing in the conditions he is presented with, and for being the top target in a really good offense. I just don’t think he is top-5.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Seriously – you don’t have WR as an option in this poll?
I know there are differing opinions on this, and it is certainly debatable that it is the #1 priority, but WR has to be one of the most obvious needs.
WR should be an option, I am hoping we land A.J. Green, and that is why I voted ‘Other’.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 11, 2011 11:30 AM EST reply actions
If it isn’t Green no WR is worth the #6 pick.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 11, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
Jones over Blackmon but I don’t even want him there.
If you haven't watched Inception, do it now. Right now.
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 11, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Will be interested to see the 40 times of those 2. Jones has the better size. Blackmon has the production, and is very physical for his size. I really think the Mock has it right – given those guys go in the top 5 – and we cant trade down – get some royalty and go with Prince as BPA and a need.
Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"
You guys are slowly talking me into him over Jones.
"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden
I’ve been on the Jones bandwagon, but if we get Blackmon I’d be good with that.
(assuming we don’t have a shot at A.J. Green)
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 12, 2011 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
Blackmon announced he is staying at Okie State.
Damn.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 12, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
Next year.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 12, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
That’s a good decision. If he puts up numbers like he did this year, he could be a top 5 lock. This year he could have fell in the draft, with only one year of production.
I’m with ya. I was really starting to think he was a real candidate for our pick.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 13, 2011 1:05 AM EST up reply actions
I’m sorry for Mizzou. Is Gabbert staying?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Prediction: Gabbert goes in the first.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
i’ve seen Gabbert has moved to the number 1 qb on alot of boards, but which qb do you think goes first? Pre combine predictions. I have to go with newton. On the topic of newton, does anyone else think he would be a good fit in minnesota?
a cnnsi mock had gabbert #1 to car yesterday.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 13, 2011 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
i’ve said elsewhere that i think wr at 6 is a “luxury”, given the potential impact players along the d-line and in the secondary that could be available and the possibility of scooping up a good vet wr in fa, but wr is definitely in our top-3 needs.
i read something interesting (maybe peter king?, as unlikely as that seems) yesterday about the labor situation that has me re-thinking my stance, though. the article mentioned that a long-lasting labor stoppage could potentially result in the elimination of free agency in 2011, w/ all fa’s going back to their teams at some escalated rate for one year, i guess. the browns CANNOT go another year w/ the wr corps that they trotted out this season, in which case i’d have to back the aj green pick (if he’s there).
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 11, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
I agree. given our more desperate needs IMO on the D-Line, it is a luxury (though our WRs are bad, we do have some depth there and can survive in the short term). However, I would consider taking a “luxury” pick on Green.
Considering how many needs we have and the promise Colt showed, I would consider QB more of a “luxury” pick than others, but I would still take Luck if he dropped. Same with CB and Peterson.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Barring some horrific, Andre Smith-esque offseason workouts, it ain’t gonna happen.
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Jan 11, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
maybe we should start sending pizzas and ice cream to his apt in auburn every night?
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 11, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Even I, keeper of the dirty players, am a bit scared of Fairley’s dirtiness.
Dude just doesn’t give a flip. I watched probably 6 Auburn games. If he didn’t get at least one 15 yard penalty in the game, I can’t remember. Not to mention he should have been suspended multiple games for his action against UGA.
In a QB lover league like the NFL, I don’t know how much you can trust him.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 11, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
I voted pass rusher because I’m really hoping that BPA turns out to be a pass rusher.
BPA is the priority though.
"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert
BPA is clearly the choice….since the departures (K2, Brayer) the team is clearly serviceable. Any upgrades we can get anywhere are welcome. Most obviously RT, RG, WR and DE. Not necessarily in that order.
Forgive my cynicism, i'm still in denial. My sense of community is lost.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 11, 2011 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
I might also use a fourth rounder on a good kicker…..
Forgive my cynicism, i'm still in denial. My sense of community is lost.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 11, 2011 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
not sure why we don’t just keep dawson
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 11, 2011 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
The Browns don’t seem interested in tendering him a new contract…..We have a fairly big payroll too. New talent that can hit from 50 is probably in the future for a lot less money.
Forgive my cynicism, i'm still in denial. My sense of community is lost.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 11, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
You’re right about the Browns not showing interest, but “New talent that can hit from 50 is probably in the future for a lot less money.” just isn’t true, unless we get really lucky again.
Finding a kicker as consistently good as Dawson for less money is going to be incredibly hard.
If we let him go, which seems likely, I’ll just be crossing my fingers that we hit the kicker lottery.
"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert
Ok, maybe a new kicker that can hit from the 42 consistently. For a lot less money.
Forgive my cynicism, i'm still in denial. My sense of community is lost.
by 489favegame stat on Jan 12, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
Payroll is not the issue.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I am pretty sure it is — salary cap actually. We don’t want to take a hit on a kicker. If not that, what else explains it? His bad character. It’s hard to say that we can definitely find a better kicker — not staying Dawson is some elite but he is a very solid kicker and those are hard to find for our kind of weather.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 13, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
Really? That’s going to be news to the owners and the players’ union who are negotiating what the salary cap should be in the new CBA.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 13, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
Right but we can’t be in trouble with it if we don’t even know what it is right now. Mangini took our cap way down, and there are always ways of getting around the cap.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I am pretty sure we have a pretty good idea of what the cap is going to be — it is set as a percentage of revenues and the two sides are haggling over that percentage. But until we know what the cap is going to be — ie, after the lockout or after the CBA is resolved — there are not going to be any signings of big-time free agents. Now, Dawson is not a big-time free agent by any means (no kickers really are), but I think our team has made the decision that they can spend a lot less and get about the same, if not better. The few million bucks in cap space & Randy’s money is better spent somewhere else.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 13, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
You really think Dawson will command a “few million” in terms of cap hit? He’s a kicker.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I think he will get between 2 and 3 million a year.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 14, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
The highest base salary he has ever earned is 100k.
The highest cap number he has ever held was 1.47million—and we have good reason to believe that this is not an accurate number because he almost definitely has the Likely to be Earned/Not Likely to be Earned contract things in his cap that he will NOT earn, that will actually save us on those bonuses.
So you are essentially saying you bet that he is able to double his highest cap number and turn that into his per year average?
I would disagree that he will be able to do that but if that really is what it would take I can see why they might let him go. I think it would be worth the extra million in cap space if we didn’t have a guy who was at least as good already under contract. 1 million is nothing and is not going to make or break our cap.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Yeah, like Baltimore did with Stover.
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 14, 2011 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
I think it’s more of an age thing than anything else.
You are honestly speculating we don’t have the cap room for a kicker?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
We can save 2-3 million in cap space so it’s not a matter of not having the room, it is a matter of allocating resources. Plenty of teams have shown a willingness not to pay for kickers for this reason.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 13, 2011 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
then again, locking up a young guy with talent (like the kicker from Nebraska) could be a good option too, considering they will be likely cheaper in the long term and the team doesn’t seem interested in keeping him.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Re kicker
While a good young kicker that has some semblance of consistency from 40+ yards would be nice, I’d be happy with an average kicker who actually kicks off consistently to the goal line and actually gets touchbacks now and then. This to me is more important than an accurate 50+ yard field goal.
Unfortunately not Dawson of the recent. He may have been this in the past. Dawson had only 7 touchbacks all season, tied for 18th in the league. He finished 21st in TB% at 10.45%.
Cundiff was #1 at 50.63%. Gostowski, Prater and Janikowski all finished higher than 30%. Anothr 8 finished at above 20%.
We need somebody at over 20% or better.
I’m curious. Is that just Actual TBs where the returner takes a knee or just any kick into the end zone? Next, I’m wondering how we looked IRT average opponent’s starting position. If we are still looking good there, then you could (and I might) argue that TBs aren’t really that important. At least not as long as you have a good coverage team. It might even be that the longer kicks allow times for the return teams to set up their blocks. I’m just being hypothetical here, but I do wonder if the numbers would bear any of that out.
I am effing hurdling you and you can't stop me.
Those are all important things to keep in mind. If the opponents field position is bad anyway, touch backs don’t matter much.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 12, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
In regards to good coverage vs touchbacks, I would argu that the likelihood of injuries to our overage teams would go significantly down if there were more touchbacks.
If our coverage teams are good and we tackle them at the 24 yard line, but lose a player in the tackle, I’d much rather prefer the touchback where they start at the 20.
I’m willing to give up an injury to a special teamer twice a season if it means we tackle someone at the 16 every once in a while.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 13, 2011 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
I pulled those numbers from nfl.com. Those are actual TBs, not kicks into the endzone that are run out.
I didn’t see a stat for average starting field position on nfl.com, but I bet Football Outsiders or someone similar to them might have it.
they do have a stat for average starting field position, but it is total drives, not just kickoffs so is affected by how a team plays the “field position game”.
Out of the teams with kickers you mentioned, Baltimore and New England are 3 and 6th respectively in Defensive starting LOS. However Oakland and Denver are both bottom 6 in the league in this category, so I don’t think it is affected much by a kicker’s ability to get touchbacks/long kicks.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
As could be guessed by my tagname on this sight, I have low faith in buying jerseys cause people always leave too soon in Cleveland. I ALMOST bought a Dawson jersey cause I thought “It’s Phil. He’s the man and he’ll be here forever.” This is a bit of a downer.
by Don'tByBrownsQBJerseys on Jan 12, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
As could be guessed by my tagname on this sight, I have low faith in buying jerseys
I can also tell from your tagname that you have a tough time spelling.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 12, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
You could have dropped the apostrophe and the s at the end and been DontBuyABrownsQBJersey
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 13, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
North Coast Flea — tagname consultant
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is.
by JustPlainBrowns on Jan 14, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
I ALMOST bought a Dawson jersey cause I thought "It’s Phil. He’s the man and he’ll be here forever."
We’ll he’s already been here 12 years — that’s pretty close to forever in the NFL. I don’t really know how much longer you expect one player to stay on a team. If you’d had bought one back in ‘99 you’d have been set for over a decade.
by Buckeye Brad on Jan 12, 2011 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly, I haven’t been a huge Browns fan my whole life, and at ‘99 I was like 8? Maybe 9. Anyways, I always supported being from Cleveland, but grew up a huge basketball fan. After He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named crushed my soul with the way it all went down, I got SUPER uninterested in the NBA; it’s too buddy-buddy now. So this past summer I got really into the Browns like I was with the Cavs. Basically, never fan enough to buy a jersey until the past 6 months.
by Don'tByBrownsQBJerseys on Jan 13, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Pick Green
AJ Green would be the wise pick, the Browns need offensive help first and foremost. But if this team wants to save money and stockpile as many players as possible, tradedown in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounds to pick up as many quality players across the board. If the Browns cannot match the quality players the Ravens or Steelers have on their physical teams, then this franchise is wasting time for a losing effort.
If Green is there, you take him. But I don’t see him being there.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 12, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with going Green or trade down (unless we can’t then go Best Player Available). I would also add Peterson as a guy I would definitely take there.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
If it was all a perfect world, we could trade up and trade down and acquire as many picks as we can in the 15-50 area.
I want Green. I’ve wanted him all year. Julio Jones or Blackmon would be nice. However, if we could pick up a good, younger but proven receiver in free agency, we need to work on the offensive line, which is almost always a great pick in the first round.
Free agents to be that would be sweet…
Malcolm Floyd
Santonio Holmes (fat chance)
Steve Smith (NYG, if he can stay healthy)
James Jones
Steve Breaston
More so the top 3, as the bottom 2 at the moment is not much of an improvement on what we have.
by Don'tByBrownsQBJerseys on Jan 12, 2011 11:52 AM EST reply actions
No way the browns draft offensive line in the first round, plus we have two first round, oline, on our team. The browns are lacking playmakers on this team. When the right side of our line was healthy this year, we had a top ten oline. If you want oline, then wait til the second round. A RT like DeMarcus love should be available or someone falls to the second round. The number 6 pick needs to be spent on the biggest game changing playmaker. If green is gone, it has to be defense all the way.
You can never have enough offensive or defensive lineman.
Never.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 12, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
im all for a defensive lineman. Let’s go back to the 09 draft and say we are in the same scenario. Do we take another offensive line like mack, or do we take a guy like clay matthews? That’s all im saying.
We take Mack.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 12, 2011 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah man, are you high or something?
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Jan 12, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed, but in no way does that make the Mack pick a bad one (I don’t think you were saying that) any more than it makes every single pick from the 2000 draft before Tom Brady in the 6th round a bad pick.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 12, 2011 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
You are right, i wasnt saying it was bad pick. I was just trying to get my point across, which is we need a game changing playmaker over the right side of the line.
We just need someone who can do OK in pass protection. St. Clair is that bad.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Jan 13, 2011 2:00 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t think so. Without Clay Matthews our defense was ranked highly in stopping the other team from scoring points. Our LBs, while not worldbeaters by any stretch, don’t make me throw up in my mouth.
Our offensive line without Mack is awful.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 12, 2011 6:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I guess i should have said, “same scenario this year”. that’s what i meant. That draft is over and mack has been good. The draft comes this year, you got a shot at a lineman like mack or a defensive player like matthews, who do you pick? Don’t think he can pass on a playmaker, because our right line is a little weak.
Still think that — hindsight 20/20, knowing what we know today — takign Mack over Matthews is ludicrous. Matthews is proving himself to be one of the best pass rushers in the game in his SECOND year. Dominant pass rushers are just a lot harder to find than very good centers, and also make a much, much bigger impact on the game. Again, this is just saying with the full benefit of hindsight — taking Mack was a great pick and I don’t regret it at all.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 12, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
there’s a difference between our right side being a little weak and only having 2 respectable starters.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 12, 2011 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
I am taking the OLB because we have 2/3 of the top tier OL positions filled and the 3rd can be found in the 2nd/3rd rounds.
If we invest in a RT, though, we don’t need to think about the O line in the draft for the next 10 years unless someone falls in our lap, which is exactly the way I want it.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
two words:
Saint Clair.
drafting O line is fine with me.
by discoinferno083 on Jan 12, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
st. clair is a backup. He only played because of injury this year. Doubtful he comes back next year (at least i hope). The verdict is still out on lauvao at rg and we still have porkchop. With all the team needs, i don’t see offensive line in the first round. The only way i see this happening is if they love pouncey, and can trade back for good compensation. Pouncey could start at rg, and then move to lg in a few years when steinbach is gone
we’ve been wishing for years for St. Clair to be gone.
hasn’t happened yet.
the O line vs. def pass rush playmaker debate is an interesting one.
by discoinferno083 on Jan 12, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
and I have heard rumors that the guy who got injured that he had to replace (Tony Pashos) might retire.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Called it when it happened. Robaire and Pashos are not going to play another down of football.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Jan 16, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Robaire is now swearing he will. He also might be a free agent so take that with a rock of salt.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I disagree on the bottom 2 not being improvements. Well, maybe james Jones is not a clear cut improvement over Robi/Momass, but I wouldn’t hesitate on signing either one if their contract demands are moderate. Both of these guys can stretch the field in a way our receivers haven’t been able to do.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
IMO, If Green and Fairly are gone it would not surprise me if Heckert trades down for more picks. It appears corner heavy and I just see the Browns going that direction early in the first round.
If it’s corner heavy then wouldn’t it make more sense to get the best of one of the thinner positions knowing that you can still get a decent corner later?
I am effing hurdling you and you can't stop me.
If a CB is the BPA then we take him. It’s still a team need, though not as high as other positions. If the FO has two guys rated dead even, one being a CB and the other being a bigger need like DE or OLB, then they take the bigger need. Unlikely scenario, though.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I’m trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Ricky Henderson
If a CB is the BPA then we take him.
If any player is BPA, we take him. We have that many needs. The only exceptions here for me would be LT and C; extremely unlikely however that either would be BPA at the 6th pick, especially center.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 17, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Of course BPA is BPA. My basic point in responding to Bob’s question is that you don’t pass up the BPA just because the draft is heavy with a lot of talent at the BPA’s position. And like you said, the only positions we would pass on are LT and C. That won’t be a problem this year. I’ve seen a couple of mock drafts and there are no OL listed in the top 15, which kinda stinks for the Browns cuz if a LT went in the top 5 then they would have had more options at #6.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I’m trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Ricky Henderson
Of course a lot of, er, some of the needs could change depending on who we get in FA.
I am effing hurdling you and you can't stop me.
yeah, they even lead our team in receptions.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 12, 2011 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
Ben Watson.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 14, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
I guess i’m referring more to making attempts at big-name talent.
the Jets nabbed Holmes, LT, and (cough) BE.
talent works for some, given the right coaching system.
I’d like to see us TRY.
Did we even take a pass at Boldin? Guys like that.
Just a little something that bothers me.
by discoinferno083 on Jan 16, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
The Jets traded for Holmes and BE, and I’m pretty sure the ravens traded for Boldin.
LT was a FA for a reason, most people thought he was over the hill, and he still probably doesn’t have more than a year left. He would have been no help to this team, and probably wouldn’t have wanted to come to cleveland.
Signing free agents is a two way street. The players have to want to play in cleveland.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 16, 2011 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly my point with reference to LT. You aren’t going to build your team with guys like that. You are going to supplement what you have for a few years. If you get major pieces, “core guys”, you are going to pay a lot for them. They are probably worth it sometimes, but not as the major source of personnel for your team.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
touche.
i would then like to see us in TRADE talks for major players.
by discoinferno083 on Jan 19, 2011 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
I think we are in a great position this year. I think you just go BPA at #6 among guys like AJ green, Petersen, Fairley, Amukamura, Bowers, Robert Quinn, Vonn Miller.
"Smokescreen."
I am not a fan of Von Miller, but I’m willing to hear counter arguments.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 13, 2011 1:10 AM EST up reply actions
If we aren’t still running a 3-4 they probably aren’t worth hearing. He can rush the passer and drop into coverage. He’s very quick for a guy his size. His lower body needs more strength to anchor against the run. Bottom line, he’s a very athletic guy who can rush the passer and needs some polish.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I vote we go contrarian on everyone’s ass and take the worst player available.
"Quote goes here."
by Adrock2099 on Jan 12, 2011 9:33 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
B-Mac all the way.
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 12, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
Brady Quinn
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 12, 2011 11:42 PM EST up reply actions
Draft me.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
You’d still probably be better than all of the above.
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 13, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
Quinn and Bmac are definitely better picks. Cousin is probably 40 by now so I might have a shot there, but he was an NFL athlete at one time so I don’t think so.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
BMac maybe. Quinn? No (unless you count what we got in the trade for him).
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 13, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
I’ll go out on a limb and say Brady Quinn is a better NFL player than I am.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
This is false.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 14, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
Let me take this opportunity to repeat what I have said before: cutting BMac was a mistake. We never found a 4th CB that was better than him.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 17, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
I actually have to agree with this. As much as B-mac sucked, getting rid of him left us terribly thin at CB and we had no security measures in case a guy started to suck.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
BMac is replacing suck, with an extra layer of suck.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 17, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
What? Can’t agree at all here. BMac got cut by the Cardinals shortly after. Despite the fact that we lacked a solid 4th corner (which I don’t think was a problem), BMac would not have changed that fact.
by Roger Dorn on Jan 17, 2011 6:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I have to agree here, Adams at CB > than BMac at CB despite our “thinness” at Safety.
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 17, 2011 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
Buffalo’s already got us beat with this strategy.
“what don’t we need?”
“let’s draft ’im!”
by discoinferno083 on Jan 13, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
Kiper, for what he is worth, has the top 5 like this on his big board as of the 12th…
1. Nick Fairley
2. Da’Quan Bowers
3. AJ Green
4. Patrick Peterson
5. Marcell Dareus
I wouldn’t mind to get Bowers or Dareus with our #6 pick, because I think the rest are off the board before we pick.
"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden
2nd round
I know this is a first round thread, but I am almost more interested in who we take in the second. As surprising and exciting a pick as TJ Ward was last year, I am really curious as to what Heckert has up his sleeve. Who is this years sleeper? Cause if you remember last year no one had Ward on their radar in the 2nd.
by BigDawgGottaEat on Jan 13, 2011 11:48 AM EST reply actions
Yeah he was considered a huge reach by most if I remember correctly.
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 13, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
I heard no one mention Ward in the second.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 13, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
I am holding out hope for Rahim Moore out of UCLA.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I didnt’ watch him much this year. How did he do?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I can just tell that this guy is a smart player. He’s always around the ball when the tackle is made.
77 tackles this year, in a role where he was asked to play closer to the line. In his Sophomore year he had 10 INT, so people likely didn’t throw at him.
He’s got good hands and is probably a centerfielder in the league, which would be a good compliment to TJ.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I was going cornerback because Heckert always built his defenses from the CB position inward in Philly. This is a good strategy because it frees up the safeties to help out in the run game.
However with Pat Shrumer being announced at HC I’m 99% sure our first pick will be a WR. Shrumer was brought in to revitalize the Brown’s sagging O and to do for Colt McCoy what he did for Sam Bradford in St. Louis. Also a number of junior WR prospects have announced they are returning for their senior year so the top of the WR class in the draft has been cut in half. It’s really down to AJ Green, Julio Jones and Jonathan Baldwin as the first round, early 2nd round prospects. Though maybe Jerrel Jernigan sneaks into the late 1st round because there are so few candidates. A lot of mocks had the Browns taking a CB or Marcel Dareus on the assumption that we’d be able to address WR in the second. It’s no longer a given that there will be anyone left on the Browns 2nd pick. So it will probably be WR in the 1st and CB in the 2nd.
I like the fact that Shurmur was able to pass the ball with almost zero talent at WR.
If we sign a FA WR, (Santonio maybe?) maybe WR drops on the board.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 13, 2011 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
Prediction sure to go wrong: Brian Robiskie will look like a real WR in 2011.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I made the same prediction about a week ago.
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 14, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
If I can find the time maybe I’ll write a fanpost on this, laced with plenty of bias.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 15, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
I feel like a switch to the WCO, which suits McCoy, shows that they have a lot of confidence in him. I don’t think we go QB in the first, but perhaps a later round.
We could still very easily go QB
With Fairley, Peterson, Bowers, Quinn, Amukamara, Dareus, Ayers, A.J. Green and Julio Jones on the board? I don’t think any QBs coming up could be considered in the top 10 BPA. McCoy certainly has his question marks, but I will be shocked if we pass on any of the defensive talent or Green (or Jones, who I still think is a great pick). QB isn’t high enough on the priority list to throw BPA out the window.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 15, 2011 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
I want nothing to do with Julio Jones.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 16, 2011 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
I think Jones has huge potential – big, strong, fast, very physical, great blocker. Put 200 yards up against Auburn averaging 20 yards per catch. I watched him play in that game – the guy is a stud. Green may have better hands, but Jones doesn’t exactly have hands of stone. He’s one of those guys that works his ass off to get better – good work ethic. I think he could be really good at the next level. He may or may not go in the top 10, but he’s consistently ranked in the top 10 or 15 in almost all of the mock draft projections I’ve followed.
Regardless, the chances Holmgren, Heckert et. al decide to take a QB in the first round I’d put at about zero (re: Dorn’s comment).
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 16, 2011 7:32 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think Jones has the speed to be an elite WR.
I think he will struggle to get open at times in the NFL.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 16, 2011 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
Have you watched this kid play? He’s nothing but open in the SEC. And as much as I hate them, they have some good defenses.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Watched about a half dozen Bama games this season.
His biggest asset is his strength. Does a nice job running through arm tackles and getting the extra yards. Plus run blocker as well.
When he was matched up against top flight CB’s, he didn’t get open down field. Patrick Peterson erased him downfield this season. Look at J.Jones stat line, 10 catches, 89 yards (long of 19). Bama couldn’t get him open downfield, so they used the bubble screen/quick pass time and time again. Jones wasn’t beating the coverage, so Bama had to change their mode of getting him the ball.
When he went against Janoris Jenkins of Florida, he had the same problem 4 catches, 19 yards (long of 15). Joe Haden shut him down last season as well, 2 catches 28 yards.
You have to look deep, but Julio Jones can’t beat good defensive backs downfield. He is going to struggle with that even more in the NFL. Count me out on Julio.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 17, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
You are telling me 10 catches for 89 yards against a top 5 pick in an offense that would run every down if they could is a minus?!
I don’t care if they threw shovel passes to him, that’s 89 yards on this year’s Alabama team.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I don’t care if they threw shovel passes to him, that’s 89 yards on this year’s Alabama team.
First, Alabama threw the ball 34 times in that game. Were not talking 95 Nebraska here.
Secondly, the yards mean nothing to me. The fact that ‘Bama had to run almost exclusively screens to get him open speaks volumes. It’s a white flag.
He can’t get open down field against good CB’s.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 19, 2011 2:13 AM EST up reply actions
could he play slot, then? and be a YAC guy?
he sounds a bit like Boldin’s style.
were there character issues w/julio?
how much do “intangibles” come into play w/ our FO?
by discoinferno083 on Jan 19, 2011 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
My 2¢…
Big YAC threat. Very athletic – big, strong, hard to tackle, deceptive speed and acceleration after catch.
Character issues: from everything I’ve read – very humble kid, great work ethic, anti-diva personality, involved in community service projects, etc.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 19, 2011 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
I haven’t heard anything about him off the field, I think he is pretty clean.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 19, 2011 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
So you are blaming him for only making 10 catches in one game where he had almost 1/2 of the receptions of the entire team (21). The next closest receiver was Maze with 4 receptions for 35 yards.
The stats also suggest that Bama should have passed more than they did, that LSU was spending a lot of resources to stop the run. They had a 3.3 yard passing premium and they still ran it almost as many times as they passed (31 to 34). This supports my assertion that Bama likes to run the ball.
Look, you have a point about Haden and potentially about Jenkins. I haven’t watched the Jenkins vs. Jones tape, but Haden blanketed him. Still, that’s two games out of all of the ones he’s been in where he’s produced and looked like an absolute stud. He’s played through a lot of injuries, too.
AJ Green only had 4 receptions for 42 yards vs. Florida this year, 3 for 50 last year, and 3 for 19 vs Auburn last year. Why are you not bringing that up? If you are really worried about Jones’ down games, I don’t see how you can overlook Green’s.
I’m not all that worried about either WR, they are both easily first rounders to me, with Green in the top 3 and Jones in the top 15.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
So you are blaming him for only making 10 catches in one game where he had almost 1/2 of the receptions of the entire team (21). The next closest receiver was Maze with 4 receptions for 35 yards.
I didn’t blame him for anything. I’m not impressed by a WR getting 8.9 YPC.
AJ Green only had 4 receptions for 42 yards vs. Florida this year, 3 for 50 last year, and 3 for 19 vs Auburn last year. Why are you not bringing that up? If you are really worried about Jones’ down games, I don’t see how you can overlook Green’s.
Because AJ Green has toasted other legit CB’s. Last season he tuned Patrick Peterson for 5-99-1 TD, with a freshman QB and much less respected rushing game. Green came back and roasted Auburn for 9-164-2 TD (Not that Auburn was a great pass defense).
It’s simple in my mind. I think AJ Green will be able to get open against the best in the NFL. I can’t say the same for Jones. I wouldn’t draft Jones in the first round.
I wouldn’t draft Julio Jones in the first round.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 20, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
That’s fine, I definitely would. I think comparing the stats on this level isn’t really productive.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
If we take Julio Jones at six, I hope I am Joe Haden-like wrong in my assessment.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 21, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
I would like them to say something about the defense before I am willing to feel disappointed or not about getting Julio at 6. Lots of guys who fit 4-3s that are going to go up there.
Depending on who is desperate for a QB/LT, Green could still be on the board.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
If you are in charge of the draft and you don’t think you have a franchise QB on the roster and you do think a franchise QB is on the board when you are picking, the QB is always the best value available.
I already know your thoughts on Colt, but if the guys who work with him every day don’t think he’s the one and they do believe in a QB on the board it is the right pick every time, it doesn’t matter what WR or defensive player is out there.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Given the current crop of QBs, do you think the Browns will take a QB in the first round?
If so, I’m curious as to who you think would be worth taking (with our 1st round pick).
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 17, 2011 9:32 AM EST up reply actions
I hope not. The only definite franchise QB I saw coming out was luck, but he went back to school. Newton may be that, but he is way to risky to take that high.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
rufio knows better than i do and this question was directed toward him, but i personally don’t think there’s a qb worth taking at 6 either as BPA or as a guy the browns just can’t pass up b/c he obviously fills a need.
if they trade back from 6, however, that could change.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 18, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
If we took one the only one I’d want would be Gabbert, and I am not completely sold on him.
I don’t know who it would be but if you think the guy’s there, you have to pull the trigger. I don’t think we will take a QB.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
If you are in charge of the draft and you don’t think you have a franchise QB on the roster and you do think a franchise QB is on the board when you are picking, the QB is always the best value available.
Agree 100 percent, but the key here is the latter part of your sentence — “you think a franchise QB is on the board when you are picking” — I don’t think that is going to be the case. Or at least, none whose potential right now so greatly outweigh Colt’s potential right now that we don’t address other needs.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 17, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
In this draft, the only QB I would take over Colt McCoy is still enrolled at Stanford.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 17, 2011 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
QB isn’t high enough on the priority list to throw BPA out the window.
Exactly.
Also, much like last year, none of the QBs who will be available to us at 6 are sure enough shots that they are worth taking that high even if QB was a high enough priority (as it clearly was last year).
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 17, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
If he’s available, there is no question.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 14, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Especially with how Shurmur emphasised we are going to be running a new offense here, a potential star WR would be nice
"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden
a potential star WR would be nice
one or more really, really good WRs will be crucial acquisitions and landing A.J. Green would be a REALLY good start.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 17, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
I’d like to see Green but I think front offices would be afraid not to pick him early if he is available. I doubt very much that teams that can use a WR (and almost all bad teams can) will let him go by just to see him become a beast somewhere else.
So… assuming that he is gone off the board by pick 6, I’m liking:
Dareus, DT first and if he is gone…
Peterson/Amurkamara CB (Peterson first if he is there and Amurkamara if he is there-one of them should be there)
Then in the second round… if he makes it that far I’d like to see the Browns pick up Baldwin WR.
Also, I don’t know where he is projected but I really like Casey Matthews ILB as a good AND a sentimental pick. Could he fall to us in the third round? Might we move up to take him in the 2nd?
This would be my dream draft (which I also consider practical in whom might be available at our picks in the first 3 rounds):
Dareus DT
Baldwin WR
Matthews ILB
I wonder if the Power Team the Browns have put together in the front office can get it done?
Brownsyup
thanks for putting the positions with the guy’s names. That’s actually super-helpful. :)
by discoinferno083 on Jan 16, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
For what it’s worth here are Walter’s offseason needs for the Browns. I’d say it’s on the money.
Nice to not see QB there :) at least not as a pressing need.
I am mixed on his analysis (as always) but the needs are money.
I think the browns go WR later on in the draft and/or get a 2nd tier free agent.
I do think he is wrong on Pashos. He said pashos sucked but when healthy, he was solid.
We definitely need depth ad rush LB and 3-4 DE
I would actually put (especially if we are staying in a 3-4 and won’t resign DQ) ILB as a bigger need than some like Guard, or SS (and I think FS is a bigger need anyways)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Maybe we’ll finally use Evan Moore.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
what point is there to using the tallest guy on the team who also happens to have the best hands?
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 14, 2011 8:57 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Because he doesn’t block quite as well as Robert Royal?
"Quote goes here."
by Adrock2099 on Jan 15, 2011 3:50 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
HA
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
by Brownie's Year on Jan 15, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
What was I thinking?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 15, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
If Ingram fell to the 2d round, would you take him?
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is.
by JustPlainBrowns on Jan 14, 2011 9:42 PM EST reply actions
Not sure what happened with Ingram this year – his numbers paled in comparison to ‘09.
I seriously doubt we’d take a RB in the first two rounds anyway.
First few rounds from all indications we’ll looking at WR, offensive line, defensive line / linebacker, defensive end / pass rusher (and/or perhaps CB) – in order per BPA…
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 14, 2011 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
Really like AJ Green or Peterson at 6.
Otherwise hope we do the best we can to trade down. Two kids I would really like to go after would be O. Marecic and C. Matthews.
Fujita is absolutely solid at ILB. But, I’m worried about his injury and age going forward. Both Marecic and Matthews could be impact players immediately on special teams and work their way into starting jobs easily — cuz they’re smart and clean!
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is. -- Yogi Berra
by JustPlainBrowns on Jan 15, 2011 11:27 AM EST reply actions
I hope like hell Fujita is back strong next year. That would be huge.
If we get A.J. Green, I’ll be doing some celebrating.
If Green’s available and we pass on him I will destroy my television set. I’ve said this a few times now in a couple of threads – I guess I should start shopping around. Anyone have any recommendations – i.e. Plasma vs. LCD (or brand – Panasonic, Samsung, Sony, etc.)?
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 16, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
Plasma is cheaper, LCD is cheaper on your electric bill.
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 16, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks, hopefully I won’t have to worry about it. At least I have until April – I could use my tax refund.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 16, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
Plasma has better “true” dark colors, while LCD has better “bright” colors. Plasma tends to be better while watching something from a side angle, where an LCD isn’t quite as easily visible. Also, I can’t remember which, but one is subject to glares from windows and lights much more than the other. Plasma’s also, although most are now corrected, can have a burnt in image if left on the screen too long. Like a logo for a certain channel or something that doesn’t change and stays there for a while. I got and LCD and love it. LG makes good ones. Whatever you buy, check the sound. Sound is an issue with both on certain TV’s.
"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden
Thanks for the tips.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 16, 2011 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
Also, make sure you get a good refresh rate, especially with LCDs. If the refresh rate is slower, you’ll get trails if there is any action on the screen which is terrible for sports. I believe this is not as big of an issue with plasma. They measure this in hertz and it is not the same for LCD as for plasma (I believe 600 is good for plasma, 120+ for LCD).
When I got my TV I was looking at refresh rate and contrast ratio, then size and price. I went plasma and I’m extremely satisfied.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
is this before or after you destroy it?
personally, I would shy away from destroying a newly-purchased plasma screen tv on draft day, but that’s just me.
by discoinferno083 on Jan 16, 2011 9:17 PM EST up reply actions
It would definitely be after draft day (or ‘D-Day’ I suppose I should call it with regard to my TV set).
I figure I’ll use my tax refund to buy the new one, perhaps the following weekend – after D-Day.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 16, 2011 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
i would make sweet love to my samsung lcd, and it wouldn’t even have to buy me dinner first…
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 18, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
RT prospects to keep an eye on:
Arizona OT Adam Grant, 6’6" 323, apparently tough and physical but a little limited in space to be a LT.
LSU OT Joe Barksdale, 6’5", 311, same boat. Durable, has experience at RT and LT at LSU.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Gimme the name of anybody who had a good game against Nick Fairley last season. THAT’s the guy we want.
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is. -- Yogi Berra
by JustPlainBrowns on Jan 18, 2011 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
Fairley is a bust waiting to happen.
Plus this, he said he won’t play anywhere that is cold. Sounds like a gamer to me.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 19, 2011 2:16 AM EST up reply actions
Me either. I want the guy who hits him so hard Fairley comes back to the huddle looking through the ear hole of his helmet.
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is. -- Yogi Berra
by JustPlainBrowns on Jan 19, 2011 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
Barksdale has been enrolled at LSU since Gerry DiNardo was there.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 19, 2011 2:15 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
do we have any additional picks this year, or just one per round?
by discoinferno083 on Jan 19, 2011 9:08 PM EST reply actions
We don’t have a 7th (Seneca Wallace) but we have an extra 6th (Brady Quinn).
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 19, 2011 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
Do we know what our picks are already for this years draft?
"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden
The compensatory picks probably haven’t been determined yet. We can assume our first 3 rounds are normal.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I think the NFL announces those picks in late March.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 20, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
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