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Bye Week Seemed of No Help to Browns in 24-17 Loss to the Raiders

OAKLAND, CA - OCTOBER 16: Colt McCoy #12 of the Cleveland Browns fumbles the ball against the Oakland Raiders at O.co Coliseum on October 16, 2011 in Oakland, California.  (Photo by Ezra Shaw/Getty Images)

Looking at the final score, I'm still amazed that the Browns were in great position to tie this game and force overtime. That was made possible by Hue Jackson's erroneous decision to not kick a field goal to give his team a late three possession lead, but sometimes coaches just have too much faith in their ability to execute that one fourth down play. The Browns still came up short, but I keep thinking back to how memorable this comeback would have been had they completed it.

CLEVELAND BROWNS (2-3) GAME #5 OAKLAND RAIDERS (4-2)
VS.
17 24

Star-divide

WEEK 5 - CLEVELAND BROWNS VS. OAKLAND RAIDERS (COMPLETE GAME REVIEW)

  1. Goat of the Week: OG Shawn Lauvao - For as bad as the Browns played during the game, I don't know if one guy stood out in particular as worse than the others. For now, I will single out Lauvao. I think he's been a disappointment this year, assisting in the regression of the offensive line. He also had two critical penalties during the game. After the Raiders' kickoff return for a touchdown, the Browns were actually having a good drive before a hold on Lauvao stalled the drive in its tracks. On the team's first drive of the second half, McCoy had just completed a pass to move the chains to prevent the team from being backed up too close to our own end zone. Lauvao then cleaned up a block after the play was over, setting the Browns back ten yards again.
     
  2. Awarding Game Balls: WR Greg Little - In his first start, the rookie wide receiver had a career best 6 catches for 72 yards and did the best job on offense of sparking the Browns (or looking like a true starting receiver). If not for a slip near the goal line, he would've had a first NFL touchdown. Little's development over the best several weeks should be fun to watch; we can only hope he gains more confidence and has some 100+yard games. Full game ball award given here.
     
  3. Running Back Controversy: I personally don't see there being a running back controversy -- I want Peyton Hillis to be the guy, and I think a bunch of unfortunate things have happened to him that have no bearing on him not wanting to be here or Pat Shurmur being at odds with him. But, it's very annoying that the usual "quarterback controversy" has been substituted by a "running back controversy" this year. His stats don't show it, but I thought Hillis was doing well when he was in again. We need to find a way to get him healthy, and I believe had the hamstring injury not occurred, Shurmur would have stuck to his word and given him the bulk of the carries.
     
  4. Moore Gets Three Targets: I think we saw tight end Evan Moore on the field a little more often early in the game, but his output/playing time was still no where near what I imagined. He was targeted three times and had two catches for 12 yards.
     
  5. Massaquoi Shows His Value: I wish he would've been able to hang onto McCoy's last pass of the game, but I like the fact that Mohamed Massaquoi has now made two pretty difficult catches for touchdowns in two of his past three games as the game is on the line. Don't underestimate the value in someone who doesn't lose motivation when a big play is needed, and right now, that area of the field seems to be his niche.
     
  6. Eaten Up by McFadden, But Only Early: On the first drive, I thought it was going to be a loooooong day for the Browns' defense. Darren McFadden was lighting up the defense with ease and capped things off with an opening-drive touchdown. After that though, the defense definitely held McFadden and Michael Bush in check. Part of that had to do with Jason Campbell going down and the Raiders playing Bush too much, but it's still not an easy task to bring down a guy who may be the league's best back.
     
  7. Picking on Patterson: I have mixed feelings on how Dimitri Patterson did in a starting role. I thought he made sound tackles and tried to deflect some passes. The issue is that he was giving huge cushions on many plays, and even Kyle Boller can complete those passes (shudders). I assume that was a coaching decision though, because we've seen Patterson play much more aggressive in previous games (although you certainly have more freedom as a nickelback). On the other hand, I was not pleased with rookie cornerback Buster Skrine, including a poor decision he made to stop a runner on the edge.
     
  8. Ward Gets My Approval: I liked what I saw from safety T.J. Ward against the Raiders after I had complained about him last week. He seemed a little more aggressive and even played a role in busting up a screen pass. He finished with seven combined tackles.
     
  9. Defensive Line in Spurts: I was frustrated to see our defensive line allow Oakland's quarterbacks to scramble for a total of 25 yards, especially when we had him in our sights a few times. One of those scrambles did end Jason Campbell's season, which is something that set off an amazing turn of events before the trade deadline yesterday. Still, the defensive line made some of the impact plays that make me love this unit. Phil Taylor had 1 sack and 2 tackles for losses, while Jabaal Sheard had a sack and a forced fumble.
     
  10. Special Teams Killed Us: We never would've said that under Brad Seeley, even though I don't fault our guys completely for selling out on Oakland's fake field goal. But, when you give up two touchdowns on special teams, that definitely is demoralizing. We got a taste of our own medicine of how other teams felt in the past when they faced us, and you could tell by his comments after the game that Joshua Cribbs was pissed about it.
     
  11. Special Teams Was Also Great: There were also a lot of good special teams plays. Phil Dawson was money on a key 48-yard field goal, and give credit to he and holder Brad Maynard for getting an extra point to just barely get over the crossbar after a rare botched snap by Ryan Pontbriand. Speaking of Maynard, he was brilliant on punts, showing greater distance on his kicks than he has all season. Out of six punts, four of them were inside the 20. We didn't lose this game due to field position. Lastly, how pumped were you when Dawson and James Dockery connected on the onside kick? I was starting to believe again.
     
  12. Special Teams Tackles: There were four special teams tackles -- one each for T.J. Ward and Emmanuel Stephens, and two for cornerback James Dockery.
     
  13. Evaluating Colt McCoy: It's really tough to evaluate Colt McCoy because of a lot of factors: no running game right now, a suspect offensive line, no set rotation at wide receiver and tight end, and some questionable playcalling. The bottom line is that when I see McCoy, I'm not seeing that "X Factor" that I'd like to see. He needs to be able to overcome those things at times and make the defense pay for loading the box against him. I think he's doing a terrible job reading defenses pre-snap right now, presenting a big issue when teams come after him right away.
     
  14. Brownies: Each team completed 50% (8 of 16) of their third down passes...the Browns continued their red zone dominance on offense, as they notched touchdowns on two tries down there...despite Lauvao's mistakes, the overall penalty total and yardage on both sides was low...I don't think the Raiders targeted cornerback Sheldon Brown once...linebacker Scott Fujita left the game with a concussion...the Browns lost the time of possession battle 34:41 to 25:19, which isn't something you expect to see when a team is not on the field very long due to two special teams touchdowns.

Up next, the Browns head back home to take on the Seattle Seahawks. The Seahawks have shown some spark the past couple of weeks, but right now, I am liking Cleveland's chances against a team that doesn't have a great running game or a legitimate starting quarterback (did I mirror Cleveland with that comment too?...ouch).

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But, it’s very annoying that the usual “quarterback controversy” has been substituted by a “running back controversy”

AKA: The Cleveland Plain Dealer Agenda, 2011

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 19, 2011 7:10 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Yes. I was wondering if people would understand why I was quoting both of those phrases (largely due to the media).

Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.

by Chris Pokorny on Oct 19, 2011 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I got you 100%

I understand that the demand for “news” is extremely high and that they are just doing their jobs… but it’s really just pandering to the majority who love to be outraged by anything and “demand an answer to this debacle!!!” (shakes fist). Keeps the customers rolling in.

I know they work hard, but I have a feeling that Grossi and Cabbot are not too concerned with being known for their integrity or respectability around Cleveland.

It’s cheap, lazy and perpetuates other negative articles all the way up to ESPN (aka Gozer the Destroyer).

Makes the team and the city look foolish.

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 19, 2011 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

I know they work hard

Really?

2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion

by TheDriveStillHurts on Oct 19, 2011 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, they put out tons of content on that website.

Let me say this… they work hard at enraging people.

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 19, 2011 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/10/cleveland_browns_wr_josh_cribb_5.html

I hope I’m not offending anyone by posting this link to the PD, but check out the first 40 or so comments to this pot stirring article…

Mary Kay has these people eating out of her hand. The underhanded tones of her headlines and the content of her articles are so agenda driven that anyone without the ability to form their own opinion are sucked in to her dramatic nonsense.

And then she peed in my Cheerios.

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 19, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn’t think writers wrote their own headlines.

Mangini apologist by default.

by Villeslgr on Oct 20, 2011 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, it takes work to be that big of a douchebag!

My glass is always half full, b*tch

by The Licensed Optimist on Oct 20, 2011 5:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

rec for gozer the destroyer. that is awesome.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 20, 2011 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Phil Taylor’s sack came from Boller ran into him after tucking and running. Not really credible to him, don’t even think he realized he got a sack. http://www.nfl.com/videos/cleveland-browns/09000d5d8232f597/Browns-defense-sack-1-yd-loss

defensive line barely got any pressure on the QB all night. Nothing to like IMO.

by The Licensed Pessimist on Oct 19, 2011 7:19 PM EDT reply actions  

He totally sucks.

by HenryDawg on Oct 19, 2011 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yep, total garbage. Awful.

by Off-the-Chain on Oct 19, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

TRADE HIM NOW.

My glass is always half full, b*tch

by The Licensed Optimist on Oct 20, 2011 5:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Phil Taylor is a Gerard Warren-esque bust already. Worst player in the league right now.

Resident Tim Couch Apologist.

by Dawg Nuts on Oct 20, 2011 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Two tackles for losses mean nothing? It means the guy can win the line of scrimmage at times. Agree on the credibility of sacks, but at least he didn’t get stonewalled.

Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.

by Chris Pokorny on Oct 19, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

The fact that out of everything that happened on Sunday TLP singles out Phil Taylor to criticize pretty much puts earns him the “troll” label if you ask me.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 19, 2011 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that’s fairly obvious.

by Off-the-Chain on Oct 19, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well NFL.com thinks that Sheard did a fine job. He was highlighted with a video on their rookie watch segment.

But he probably didn’t even realize he was credited with a strip/sack on Boller either, so whatever. He sucks too.

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 19, 2011 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sheard is still number 3 in PFF’s top rookies after this past weekend. Taylor is just outside top 10.

by Roger Dorn on Oct 19, 2011 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Both are pulling their weight so far. Sheard is looking much faster than I thought he was at first glance. Hope we can hit on some dudes like this again, only on offense.

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 19, 2011 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve supported sheard from the beginning, but regardless he’s done little outside of the horrible competition of the first three weeks. Taylor isn’t “just outside” considering there is no rank outside the top 10, he dropped out.

by The Licensed Pessimist on Oct 20, 2011 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I believe they have a quantitative metric for their rankings, so if he were to drop out, one could only use common sense to deduce he is barely outside of it.

by Roger Dorn on Oct 20, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

The fact that out of everything that happened on Sunday TLP singles out Phil Taylor

This makes very little sense, at all

by The Licensed Pessimist on Oct 20, 2011 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was wondering when we’d all get to see these two argue.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 20, 2011 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

I suspect they are secretly the same person.

Even Doug Dieken admits Joe Thomas is the real #73

by Doc's Kid on Oct 20, 2011 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

i was kind of concerned that the fabric of the space-time continuum might rip if they both occupied the same thread at the same time. seems like we’re safe, though.

oh, the licensed optimist is clearly golan

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 20, 2011 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice try once again, Golan.

Resident Tim Couch Apologist.

by Dawg Nuts on Oct 21, 2011 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I still think someone should create a “Cage Match: TLP vs. TLO” post at some point.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 21, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Please, don’t feed the troll.

2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion

by TheDriveStillHurts on Oct 19, 2011 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha, you’re right. Props

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 19, 2011 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Two tackles for losses mean nothing?

This exemplifies a duality. Some people (like a little lower) proclaim his stats don’t mean anything, but then some such as yourself will look at his 2 tfl as success effort. Regardless I think as a whole he was ineffective. In its entirety the line gave up 150 rushing yards and the pass rush was non existent, regardless of the empty stats.

by The Licensed Pessimist on Oct 20, 2011 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

you just make this shit up, huh?

if one person cites stats as a positive, and a completely different person says the stats don’t mean anything … that’s called a difference of opinion, not a freaking “duality”.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 20, 2011 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

the line gave up 150 rushing yards

In case you aren’t aware, there are several other guys called “linebackers” and “safeties” behind the line who are also supposed to be providing run support when you are facing the best running back in the NFL. Folks give out a few occasional props to the play of the guys on our d-line, which contrary to your innate pessimism is one of our strengths right now. By nitpicking at the play of our defensive line in response, you continue to reveal yourself as someone who does nothing much more than lurk around looking for parades to rain on.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 20, 2011 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

In case you aren’t aware, there are several other guys called "linebackers" and "safeties" behind the line who are also supposed to be providing run support when you are facing the best running back in the NFL

A perfect example of this was against Tennessee. The line ate up every blocker and we had Gocong unblocked at the LOS. Unfortunately, Chris Johnson ran right by him for 25 yards.

by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 20, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

You missed my point about the stat not meaning anything. That isn’t quite what I meant. What I mean is that Taylor’s value can’t always be measured in stats like TFLs and sacks. His primary objective is to occupy blockers and fill space. Of course if he gets sacks and TFLs and tackles well that’s just gravy. It’s not like any sack is a bad sack.

by HenryDawg on Oct 20, 2011 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

a sack is a sack. Some take more or less skill than others, but its ludicrous to say that there are sacks that take absolutely no skill at all.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 19, 2011 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

More importantly is that Taylor’s sack stats are meaningless. His real value is in creating a massive wall along with Rubin so that DQ and others can make plays.

by HenryDawg on Oct 19, 2011 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

if he gets a sack, its still meaningful. Just because he is a run stuffer doesn’t mean his ability to get after the QB is useless.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 19, 2011 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

The majority of DT’s sacks though are when they just push the line back and then when the QB steps up they run right into the big guy clogging the middle. So if he does his job and backs the OL up he’s going to fall into a couple sacks here and there. It’s just not the top thing we should base our opinion of him on.

by johnf34 on Oct 19, 2011 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s just not the top thing we should base our opinion of him on.

I totally agree. I will judge his success on how well/poorly the RBs perform when running it up the gut.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 19, 2011 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

we got torn up in the running game this week.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 20, 2011 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Around the edges is where we got gashed for the big plays. That’s on Fujita and Cong.

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 20, 2011 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Localman is right. dmc did his damage on the edges and he had less success running it up the middle. Also, while dmc had a great game, he still averaged over 1 yard less per carry than he was averaging coming into the game, and only truly “poor” run D he faced was the Bills.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 20, 2011 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

he still averaged over 1 yard less per carry than he was averaging coming into the game

this is pretty close to irrelevant. he “only” averaged an awesome 4.6 ypc against us, versus his intergalactically stupendous 5.5 ypc previously.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 20, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d say its relevant because to accurately judge how a squad does, you have to consider the strength of the opponent.

I am not saying the line had a great game or even good, but it was somewhat adequate. We didn’t get torched like the Jets did or the Broncos.

If you told me before the game we would hold mcfadden to 4.6 ypc, less than 100 yards, and only 1 big run I would consider that to be an adequate performance.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 20, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Take away that first drive and the Raiders did nothing much on the ground.

My dog is a badass. His name is Kosar.

by Brownie's Year on Oct 20, 2011 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

But you can’t take it away from them, they got those yards. Taylor played a good game and has played well the whole year. He messes up on a play here and there but he’s promising and playing pretty well.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 20, 2011 3:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

For all the “red flags” attached to him at draft time… the Penn State fight/his conditioning restricting him from being a 4 down player/saying he’s no good in the 43… He’s getting sacks and runners are running away from him.

Gotta get some help for Haden and Jackson next.

Random: HEY!!! Gadhafi is dead!

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 20, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Of course, it’s not like I’m saying he shouldn’t get stats, I’m just saying its not necessarily what determines his success.

by HenryDawg on Oct 19, 2011 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

a sack is a sack

I think it’s ludicrous to believe having a QB fall into your lap as you’re being walled out takes skill.

by The Licensed Pessimist on Oct 20, 2011 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

a sack is a sack

Resident Tim Couch Apologist.

by Dawg Nuts on Oct 20, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Paper or plastic?

by athensdawg on Oct 20, 2011 10:08 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

come on man, this is the 90s! REUSABLE BAGS FTW!

Smile big, hug bigger. Talk big, act bigger. Stop judging do something, shut the fck up do something.

by pwndabear on Oct 20, 2011 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

I liked the early 90’s!

by athensdawg on Oct 20, 2011 10:30 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

i did too. 89 was the BEST

Smile big, hug bigger. Talk big, act bigger. Stop judging do something, shut the fck up do something.

by pwndabear on Oct 20, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hampton, Warlocks…

by athensdawg on Oct 20, 2011 12:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Nothing to like IMO.

Shocked.

by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 19, 2011 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Aboot Patterson, Shurmur confirmed that they had him play soft on DHB to avoid them taking it over the top. It was good strategery as they did complete a bunch of short to medium passes but I don’t think any of them really hurt us that badly.

What was the problem with Skrine? I didn’t hear his name called at all which is usually a good thing for a CB.

by HenryDawg on Oct 19, 2011 7:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Heyward-Bey’s catches were sooo easy because of this. They could have went to him so much more.

by johnf34 on Oct 19, 2011 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don’t take this personally john34 because I see this from lots of Browns fans (I"m sure I’ve done it as well) but we tend to criticize our own successful results when they work out right even if they don’t look quite right. So yeah, we gave up short crosses to DHB but they were largely meaningless and our coaches specifically planned to sacrifice those short gains to avoid big plays over the top and big gashes by the running game. So we successfully executed a plan, it worked, but we still find a way to criticize it. I get that if we won it would be a moot point, but we lost because of Special Teams, not defense.

by HenryDawg on Oct 19, 2011 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

i would rather have this then the crap we saw against Tennesee. I guess.

"You are the worst villains in football, your evil plan never ceases."-Mooncamping

by discoinferno083 on Oct 19, 2011 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea, I was fine with it because with Boller out there I didn’t mind making Boller try to have to build up a longer drive against us with those shorter pass plays. Since he was so inaccurate I was hoping on a shorter pattern he would really screw up and our D could get a turnover.

by johnf34 on Oct 19, 2011 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

They weren’t meaningless. They allowed the Raiders to consistently keep the chains moving and win the time of possession by a lot.

But I agree, it was the best we could do and I was impressed that we didn’t give up the long ball like I feared we would. Maybe it would have been different had Campbell not gotten hurt.

by TKilbane on Oct 20, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

We were playing a lot of C3, and Patterson had a huge cushion on him all game. We were terrified of giving up a huge TD to him.

Problem is with slower OLBs and us hiding our coverages so poorly, they knew it was coming and could just run curls to DHB all day. That’s pitch and catch.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 20, 2011 3:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, It’s really frustrating to see DJackson making tackles on the outside before Cong or Fujita even get there.

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 20, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know – in the 43 the MLB needs to be moving inside out all the time. It could still be his assignment if the other two are assigned to another area. This wouldn’t surprise me since earlier we were getting beat even wider.

by HenryDawg on Oct 20, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

or it could be that the other two are only slightly faster than paint drying.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 20, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes that’s probably more likely.

by HenryDawg on Oct 20, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I had no idea you were Canadian.

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill

by JustBob on Oct 20, 2011 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Honestly, did Colt take some stupid pills this year? The fact that he can’t adjust pre-snap is kind of baffling to me.

Sammy Watkins for Heisman

by emily522 on Oct 19, 2011 7:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Same. I don’t understand WTF is happening with him.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 19, 2011 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d understand if he was having trouble adjusting to the speed of the game after the ball is in play, but I thought that all of the pre-snap stuff was supposed to be his strong point.

Dawgs By Nature: Where we REALLY love belt buckles.

by Adrock2099 on Oct 19, 2011 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

According to Shurmur he is making the adjustments but the blitzes aren’t being picked up. I think this may be part of the reason they picked up Chris Ogbonnaya. He is supposed to be able to do the stuff Hardesty isn’t.

by HenryDawg on Oct 19, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

the blitzes aren’t being picked up. I think this may be part of the reason they picked up Chris Ogbonnaya. He is supposed to be able to do the stuff Hardesty isn’t.

This seems to be contradictory to recent comments from rufio and Chris (below). I really don’t know, but I’d be curious to hear if you agree or disagree with them.

From rufio (on a recent post)…

I think it all begins with protection, and a lot of it is on McCoy. The snap count is so predictable that he allows defenses not only to get a jump in rushing the passer, but also to hide their coverages until the very last minute.
From Chris above (about Colt)…
I think he’s doing a terrible job reading defenses pre-snap right now, presenting a big issue when teams come after him right away.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 19, 2011 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am not at home right now but I am hoping to show the Raiders doing this and explain more of what I mean in an article soon.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 20, 2011 3:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

The blitzes are being picked up fine a lot of the time, Colt is just doing a horrible job with the cadence and recognizing pressure, then alerting his teammates.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 20, 2011 3:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

The pre-snap stuff slows down the post-snap game for any QB.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 20, 2011 3:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’d like to see more Moore and Watson out there next week. Especially Watson.

Dawgs By Nature: Where we REALLY love belt buckles.

by Adrock2099 on Oct 19, 2011 7:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Watson. He’s hardly out there.

by johnf34 on Oct 19, 2011 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Terrell Owens!

"You are the worst villains in football, your evil plan never ceases."-Mooncamping

by discoinferno083 on Oct 19, 2011 8:59 PM EDT reply actions  

really?

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 19, 2011 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know man… He’s old, just blew out his knee a few months ago, hasn’t played all year and has a big mouth. I don’t think the team needs that in the locker room. I can see him throwing Shurmur under the bus the first chance he gets.

I know, I know… He’s better than Robiskie

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 19, 2011 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ld rather have Robiskie.

by HenryDawg on Oct 19, 2011 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d rather see what the hell Carlton Mitchell can do. Besides be tall and fast on the sideline.

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 20, 2011 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

he must be an abject disaster, huh?

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 20, 2011 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I read somewhere he has a lot of trouble getting a playbook down. They should just Twitter it to him.

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 20, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

At this point in time, I imagine that he just runs out of bounds at the snap. Must be the only way he worse than Robo.

by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 20, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

that is an awesome visual. the only other option is that he just lays down on the ground at the snap.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 20, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

awesome

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 20, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

colt: “ready, blue 19, HUT!”

mitchell: “get down!”

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 20, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm, he WAS really into that planking craze on Twitter.

Dawgs By Nature: Where we REALLY love belt buckles.

by Adrock2099 on Oct 20, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

When will people realize that Mitchell needs the boot?

My dog is a badass. His name is Kosar.

by Brownie's Year on Oct 20, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

When will people stop talking about 6th round picks like they are some secret about to explode?

by Roger Dorn on Oct 20, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

You mean like everyone who told me we would be fine with Jason Pinkston starting at guard?

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 20, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

when will the coaches start realizing that Robi is useless and we should at least see what mitchell’s pure physical skills look like unleashed.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 20, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m kind of starting to thing Mitchell isn’t smart enough. If he was so damn good he’d be playing.

My dog is a badass. His name is Kosar.

by Brownie's Year on Oct 21, 2011 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

This.

Resident Tim Couch Apologist.

by Dawg Nuts on Oct 21, 2011 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

why does it even have to be smarts? as dorn points out, he was a 6th rounder. maybe he just sucks.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 21, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s because he’s trying to get a handoff from Wallace.

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill

by JustBob on Oct 20, 2011 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because if you bench Robiskie, nobody will notice.

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill

by JustBob on Oct 20, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who is this Ro-bis-kie?

Resident Tim Couch Apologist.

by Dawg Nuts on Oct 21, 2011 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hue Jackson’s erroneous decision to not kick a field goal to give his team a late three possession lead

I’m surprised this didn’t get more attention by the Oakland press and fans. It was one of the dumbest coaching decisions I have ever seen. Seriously.

2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion

by TheDriveStillHurts on Oct 19, 2011 9:02 PM EDT reply actions  

If we had tied the game and they didn’t piss away what was barely left of their next 2 drafts it probably would have.

by HenryDawg on Oct 19, 2011 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think they’re gonna have plenty to talk about when Palmer starts playing there. He wasn’t all that sharp last year. Maybe that has to do with the team around him, but he might suck this year. That city might explode if he does.

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 19, 2011 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

With a running game like that he’ll be fine.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 19, 2011 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just hope he’s familiar with the offense, for his sake. Learning a whole new system in under a week? Good luck dude.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 20, 2011 3:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

That would imply people in Oakland care about the Raiders.

by HenryDawg on Oct 20, 2011 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not sure if Palmer cares about winning at this point. He’s made a ton of money during his career and is living off of his reputation now. I would be surprised if he plays at a high level in Oakland. Then again, who knows?

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 20, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah – right now his main concern is probably just getting his body ready so he doesn’t end up in the hospital the first couple of weeks because it sounds like they’re going to try to start him this Sunday (!).

If they do keep winning and make a playoff run, you can bet he’ll become plenty interested in the idea of winning.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 20, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

He looked really skinny in his picture signing the contract.

by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 20, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

i actually think he’ll be pretty good in oak.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 20, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure all he has to do is take the snap, turn around at hand it to a running back.

by HenryDawg on Oct 20, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

that’s a good start.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 20, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, if he can do it in under three seconds it will be better than some of our awful running plays.

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill

by JustBob on Oct 20, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

momass is at about 224 yards for the year, which puts him on pace for approx 730 … i hope kimble is paying attention…

ntn, how you feeling about our robiskie wager??

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 20, 2011 1:49 AM EDT reply actions  

Confident.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 20, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

OK… I gotta rant now.

I’m getting so tired of the Browns organization not fielding a team that can win. There is always an excuse. Right now it is the “they’re young” phase. Next year it will be a key injury. The year after that it will be new coach/front office excuse time. Yep we are building through the draft again and it just doesn’t seem to be working out. I can already see the responses to this comment… “only the 5th game” and “new coach” and so forth.
But look at this from Holmgren’s interview in Seattle yesterday:

Mitch: How long you going to do this? In 10 years are you going to be the President of the Cleveland Browns?
Holmgren: Well, you know it’s hard to tell for sure. I’m pretty sure it’s not going to be 10 years. We still have our home in Seattle. The kids are there. The grandkids are there. I don’t think they’re going to be moving anytime soon. Our vision is to get back into that area at some point. Exactly when that is? I’d like to see improvement here and lay the foundation here so that they can feel good about the team again before I make any changes.

Does that sound like someone that wants to win now to you? Does he seem hungry at all? How much time does he think he has? Sounds more like a $30,000,000 retirement plan courtesy of the most die-hard fans in the league. And he knows the product on the field sucks… he said as much in the rest of the interview. I just hear a guy that is packing it in for the season. Does this make you happy if you are a season ticket holder or a faithful fan? I know, I know… be patient you say. And next year we have injuries and next year a new coach and next year… Wouldn’t be fun to be a fan of a team that tries to WIN NOW? That produces some excitement? I’d never leave the Browns camp but it would be pretty fun to be anticipating Sunday’s game in Oakland right now instead of waiting for next year again.

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Oct 20, 2011 9:49 AM EDT reply actions  

Colt: [looking at Super Bowl pictures on wall] I’m gonna be on that wall some day.
Holmgren: Now, whoa, hold, uh, hold on. Hold on. Calm down there. We, uh, now, we have a, uh, system to get up and running…
-——————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Colt: [looking at Super Bowl pictures on wall] I’m gonna be on that wall some day.
Hue Jackson: [opens moving box, pulls out empty frame, hangs on wall] Here’s our playbook, kid – what kinds of plays do you like to run?

by mister serious on Oct 20, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Grossi is stirring up the pot based on these quotes right now. Can’t wait for this to blow up.

by Roger Dorn on Oct 20, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Can’t wait for this to blow up

?

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 20, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Who are the pot based and why is he stirring them up?

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill

by JustBob on Oct 20, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have a hard time believing Holmgren is just trying to collect a paycheck. He has a reputation to uphold.

by athensdawg on Oct 20, 2011 10:36 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

His reputation is safe.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 20, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

he is the eggman, they are the eggmen
he is the walrus
goo goo g’joob

Smile big, hug bigger. Talk big, act bigger. Stop judging do something, shut the fck up do something.

by pwndabear on Oct 20, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

I thought Paul was the walrus

by athensdawg on Oct 20, 2011 11:19 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Smile big, hug bigger. Talk big, act bigger. Stop judging do something, shut the fck up do something.

by pwndabear on Oct 20, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

i think he’s very concerned about his rep/legacy and how this job will impact it. he has no interest in adding a failure to his resume.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 20, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oakland seems to be the flavor of the month, which may be fun for fans NOW. But imagine sitting around the next 2 years, the team takes a nose dive, DMC gets hurt and you have no quality draft picks.

Remember how many huge FA deals Carolina made this year? What’s their record? How long will those players be there?

I’d rather build now, have fun later (and for years after). But that doesn’t matter if you believe we are being swindled by our own front office.

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 20, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Especially since he said how pissed he was when they lost the Cinci game and he’s doing everything he can to keep from climbing down from his box and coaching himself. Yep sounds like he’s thrown it in for sure.

by HenryDawg on Oct 20, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Typical boomer/yup, needs instant gratification. Go do another line, smoke a bowl and stick my generation with all your debt. Don’t worry, we didn’t want to retire ever anyway.

On a more serious note, did you happen to notice the line where he says he’ll leave when this organization has been made into one that will be solid for years to come? As in exactly the opposite of what we’ve been almost my entire life.

I’ll happily be average for a year or two if it means we get to be plug and play like other teams in our division, or like the last decade’s Buckeye teams. I think they went to the Alamo bowl Tressel’s first year but after that, Hell I almost got bored with all their winning every year.

And being young isn’t an excuse, its the reality. Their plan is that all these young guys develop together and the ones that produce get paydays for producing here, not somewhere else in a different system. And each year you keep adding new strong players and replacing your weakest links as needed. This adds both talent and depth, things we’ve been sorely lacking because we always think this 1 player is going to be the answer when really it takes at a minimum 22 good players and sometimes more.

by HenryDawg on Oct 20, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Man… talk about smoking a bowl… you are drinking the koolaid.
Yep… I want the team to try to win. I guess that is a bad thing. Better to sit around and be satisfied mediocrity and downright krapitude. That builds character I guess. Yay. Meanwhile we watch other teams get better faster. I’d be happy with this IF I thought the organization would be solid for years to come but seriously… you think that is going to happen with Shumur, McCoy and Tabor (our special teams coach)? Try the Fruit Punch this time…

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Oct 20, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kinda cheap and over the top to insinuate that someone is “drinking the koolaid” if they don’t agree with your complains? The special teams coach? Really!?

How can you accuse someone for “sitting around and be satisfied with mediocrity”? Tell me, how would a fan literally change anything the front office does… Write a letter? Boycott the team? Stop watching the games?

“Meanwhile we watch other teams get better faster”… Which teams?

You could say there’s a Koolaid flavor for people who judge players/coaches after 5 games… “Know It All Purple”

Seriously, it’s far too early to claim the sky is falling.

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 20, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

*complaints

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 20, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dude did you read his comment?

Typical boomer/yup, needs instant gratification. Go do another line, smoke a bowl and stick my generation with all your debt. Don’t worry, we didn’t want to retire ever anyway.

That isn’t over the top? Sheesh… but I’ll leave that aside.
No you can’t do a lot about what the team is doing. This is a blog. We write things. I’m just not satisfied with the product. Seems like a lot of people are and I just can’t understand that.
Better faster=Cincy, Detroit, SF, Bills should I continue?

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Oct 20, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d probably throw in the Bucs as well.

Dawgs By Nature: Where we REALLY love belt buckles.

by Adrock2099 on Oct 20, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cincy, Detroit and SF are where they are now because of the draft.

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 20, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

This.

Brownsyup, do you not realize that all those teams you’ve named have had their coaches and/or players in place for quite a while and have struggled through years of crap also?

by HenryDawg on Oct 20, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kinda cheap and over the top to insinuate that someone is "drinking the koolaid" if they don’t agree with your complains?

It’s also kind of cheap and over the top to open a comment the way HenryDawg did.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 20, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

i read henry’s open as tongue-in-cheek. maybe i’m wrong.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 20, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

you are drinking the koolaid

I’ll take the koolaid any day over whatever you and Licensed Pessimist sit around smoking.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 20, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s all about a happy medium

by Roger Dorn on Oct 20, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sounds like last weekend to me.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 20, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Drinking kool-aid while high off your ass? Sounds like the only way to watch this team without long-term emotional damage.

This gets a rec… I needed a laugh.

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Oct 20, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Telling people they’re “drinking the koolaid” just because they make a comment that might be construed as an optimistic viewpoint is not what I’d call a happy medium.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 20, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Judging by the history of the post-expansion Browns, I’d say any optimism counts as kool-aid at this point. It’s not even kool-aid anymore, it’s dollar store flavor-aid.

Dawgs By Nature: Where we REALLY love belt buckles.

by Adrock2099 on Oct 20, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry… I just got brought down to his level because of his first sentence… what is really funny is that I don’t even drink…

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Oct 20, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

No worries. I know everyone’s been on edge with the way things have been going. Sorry for the “smoking with Licensed Pessimist” comment. I think you’re generally a great contributor and your comments usually well thought out.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 20, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I’m not here to insult anyone or poke fun at age.

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 20, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t even drink

and yet you manage to make it through cleveland sports fan-dom. i salute you, sir…

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 20, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

He should probably receive some sort of award…

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 20, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was half joking. You were just acting like the epitome of yuppie. me generation, I want my money and I want it NOW!

Sorry if it really offended you a lot.

by HenryDawg on Oct 20, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn’t say he was at the happy medium.

by Roger Dorn on Oct 20, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Happy mediums are the best mediums.

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill

by JustBob on Oct 20, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

You want a white jumpsuit with that?

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 20, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Resident Tim Couch Apologist.

by Dawg Nuts on Oct 21, 2011 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think you could handle the kool-aid I drink!

by athensdawg on Oct 20, 2011 4:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Wonder if there’s a chance they move Titus to the OLB vice going with Maiava for the start. Unlikely, but he looked great in the preseason…..be nice to get him on the field to make some plays, see what he has. (Vs. maiava who is a pretty known quantity at this stop)

"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"

by Gradysmanldy on Oct 20, 2011 2:24 PM EDT reply actions  

That would be cool. Titus Brown played awesome during the pre-season.

by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 20, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually I think Titus may have played last week against the Raiders on the outside – I kept seeing some giant LB out there and he seemed to be doing a good job.

by HenryDawg on Oct 20, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

If he was in he didn’t register any stats.

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill

by JustBob on Oct 20, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

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