Shurmur: "Margin of Error on Offense is Very Small"
by Chris Pokorny on Oct 31, 2011 12:50 PM EDT
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When Cleveland Browns head coach Pat Shurmur talked with the media following Sunday's loss to the San Francisco 49ers, he again admitted that the offense has little room for error. "I think our margin for error right now on offense is very small," said Shurmur. "That's not an excuse. That's the reality. We've gotta hit on everything. We just do."
The margin of error is indeed small, and the issue is that the problems are coming from different directions. On one play, you'll see Tony Pashos get beat by his man. On the next play, you'll see one of the two guards look lost in pass or run blocking. Then, you'll see Colt McCoy miss an open target. It doesn't help that our offensive gameplan, for the majority of the game, is built on throwing two-yard passes that go nowhere or lead to our receivers getting annihilated.
One way to reduce that margin of error is to get Peyton Hillis back in the lineup as soon as possible. Even though Hillis didn't seem as effective as he was last year when he has played, the offense has fallen into hopeless-Brady-Quinn territory (i.e. the offense doesn't do squat). Running back Montario Hardesty is scheduled to undergo an MRI today on his calf injury that kept him out most of the game against San Francsico. He wouldn't have made a difference.
Shurmur was also impressed with the 49ers offense, which modeled what I thought the Browns would try to do this year. Their playbook seemed a lot more creative and effective than Shurmur's. Shurmur commented on how tough it was to try to defend the two plays where the 49ers threw to linemen. "They're difficult (to defend against)," Shurmur said. "You're settled in there with all those big guys in there trying to stop the run. Those plays were very effective."
Shurmur will talk about the game more in-depth when he meets with the local media in Cleveland.
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I wonder what Shurmurs job security looking like. They just need to say f*ck it and let McCoy throw the ball like a mad man. They have nothing to lose. The dinking and dunking is doing nothing except against prevent defense. This crap is getting boring to watch.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Oct 31, 2011 1:04 PM EDT reply actions
Too early to fire him already, but I would not weep if the play calling was wrestled from him and given to someone who seems to have a clue.
by ouched on Oct 31, 2011 1:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If Papa Walrus had a time machine, I wonder if he’d go back in time and make himself hire an offensive coordinator. I’d like to think yes, a million time yes.
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Zu früh für ihn schon Feuer, aber ich würde nicht weinen, wenn das Spiel fordern von ihm entrissen wurde, und da jemanden, der eine Ahnung zu haben scheint!
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
Too early to fire him already, but I would not weep if the play calling was wrestled from him and given to someone who seems to have a clue.
by ouched on Oct 31, 2011 1:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Too early to fire him already, but I would not weep if the play calling was wrestled from him and given to someone who seems to have a clue.
by Off-the-Chain on Oct 31, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Too early to fire him already, but I would not weep if the play calling was wrestled from him and given to someone who seems to have a clue.
My dog is a badass. His name is Kosar.
Why does the internet have political prisoners?
by Brownie's Year on Oct 31, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Too early to fire him already, but I would not weep if the play calling was wrestled from him and given to someone who seems to have a clue.
by jonnyphoenix on Oct 31, 2011 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Too early to fire him already, but I would not weep if the play calling was wrested from him and given to someone who seems to have a clue.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
i honestly thought this was going to be posted 111 times in this thread.
"You are the worst villains in football, your evil plan never ceases."-Mooncamping
by discoinferno083 on Oct 31, 2011 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Too early to fire him already, but I would not weep if the play calling was wrested from him and given to someone who seems to have a clue.
My glass is always half full, b*tch
by The Licensed Optimist on Nov 1, 2011 3:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I do not think Pat is or deserves to be on the hot seat. Everyone in the organization knew this would be an especially rough transition. Heckert tipped us off by trading down and not signing any sighnificant FAs. With the absence of the normal eval period, they flooded the roster with young guys to make sure they did not cut loose some future players. When Heckert finishes the eval during the season – we will make significant progress next year.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
I do not think Pat is or deserves to be on the hot seat
He isn’t, and won’t be for a while b/c its Holmgren and Holmgren alone who determines if and when he is, and being that he is Holmgrens guy…I don’t anticipate that happening anytime soon. They will exhaust any and all other options before they would consider letting him go.
by jonnyphoenix on Oct 31, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
With a quality RT/RG and another athletic WR, Colt could be what we all hoped he would be . . . I think.
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Oct 31, 2011 1:34 PM EDT reply actions
I would’ve believed this at the end of last season, but the way this offense has looked so far this season has changed my mind considerably. While I agree not all the O’s problems can be put on Colt, he’s not doing us any favors with his quality of play.
by Off-the-Chain on Oct 31, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
There are good QB’s that struggle with great WR’s and good lines, so I don’t see why those things will fix a QB’s who looks like a high school player without them.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Oct 31, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
It just appears to me that Colt has NO time in a instantly dissolving pocket and, maybe just MAYBE, if he did have more time things wouldn’t be quite so bad. But then again, probably not. I have a case of the Mondays. Eff it.
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Oct 31, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
You can definitely hang many of this week’s problems on poor pass protection, but for most of the rest of the games it seems (to me) more like a combination of accuracy problems, WRs not getting separation, lack of timing (could be Colt or the WRs at fault), and lack of an effective running game.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
colt is not good enough to lead this team to the next level. period.
gutted out a win, great defensive performance, need more from the offense...
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 31, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
COLT McCOY vs TY DETMER
Colt McCoy … Rating (75.5) Ty Detmer (74.7)
Colt McCoy comp % (58.7) Ty Detmer (57.7)
Colt McCoy Yards/Game (212.9) Ty Detmer (117.6)
Colt McCoy Td/Int 15/14 Ty Detmer 34/35
Colt McCoy Yards/Attempt (6.3) Ty Detmer (6.7)
Colt McCoy QB Rating 75.5 Ty Detmer 74.7
Colt McCoy 6’1 Ty Detmer 6.0
Pretty close . I would say Ty Detmer is a good comparison right now
QB rating: the stat so nice, you say it twice.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
by Dawg Nuts on Oct 31, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
so Colt mccoy as a 2nd year player is as good as a mediocre veteran. i’ll take it I guess
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touche
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I’m not exactly thrilled with the performance of Mccoy either but look at these numbers from Brees his first year as a starter..
60.8 comp %
3,284 yrds
6.2 y/a
205.2 y/g
17 TD/16 INT
QB Rating 76.9
I’m not saying Colt is the next Brees or the next Detmer, I think Colt is Colt and the verdict is still out on him thus far.
Go Brownies!!!
I have to say this is the 1st time this year when i’ve seen CP disgusted at the Browns play. I’m going to call this right here & right now: The offensive coordinator in 2012 will be Brad Childress……
That wouldn’t be so bad.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Oct 31, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s part of the Holmgren tree, right?
My dog is a badass. His name is Kosar.
Why does the internet have political prisoners?
by Brownie's Year on Oct 31, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Dead limb of the tree. The good news, experience + anyone compared to him would seem like they had a dynamic personality.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
actually, i would liken childress to jauron … failed head coach from holmgren tree who had middling success as a coordinator. maybe he could come here and be a pleasant surprise like jauron.
although, i doubt childress would be willing to be a non-playcalling OC for shurmur.
gutted out a win, great defensive performance, need more from the offense...
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 31, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he would prefer it to unemployment.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Oct 31, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
i wonder how long the vikes are paying him…
gutted out a win, great defensive performance, need more from the offense...
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 31, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
i’d be ok with this.
"You are the worst villains in football, your evil plan never ceases."-Mooncamping
by discoinferno083 on Oct 31, 2011 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
It doesn’t help that our offensive gameplan, for the majority of the game, is built on throwing two-yard passes that go nowhere or lead to our receivers getting annihilated.
One of the hardest things to tell as a fan is whether this is the play calling or the quarterback. I honestly don’t know which it is at this point, but we need to throw further down field.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
this is a passing league. we have no passing game. my spidey sense is tingling.
Smile big, hug bigger. Talk big, act bigger. Stop judging do something, shut the fck up do something.
i thought this was a football league, personally.
"You are the worst villains in football, your evil plan never ceases."-Mooncamping
by discoinferno083 on Oct 31, 2011 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s mostly the players. No dropback pass play is designed to be caught for a two yard gain. If the WRs don’t run a good route or Colt doesn’t make a good read or if Colt doesn’t feel confident throwing the ball into a tight space or if the line lets pressure through too quickly we are going to see a lot of two yard gains. It looks to me like the players are just taking turns messing up right now.
I would like to see Shurmur gear his offense toward running the ball and then passing off of those runs (basically what we saw the 49ers do) because of our personnel, personally. Even if its a bad decision to pass as much as we do, the pass plays themselves are ones that work from the highschool level on up to the pros.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I figured it was the players, I may not particularly like Shurmur but I have a hard time believing a guy could get a job in the NFL if he were that bad at it.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Oct 31, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I was a little disappointed with the play calling yesterday. What stuck out to me was the running of play action passes when we were in our typical 3rd and long, with our 3rd string back, who was on the practice squad 2 weeks ago, and I really wish he would have went for the 4th and 2 when we were in plus territory. The play call to Little was obviously bad, similiar to the Armond Smith thing. Still, if you thought he was a good coach, stay with him – the roster depth is a real issue and is out of his control. Just keep hitting the draft picks and things will eventually change.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
It’s probably because I don’t understand defenses very well, but I was surprised that we didn’t try any screens. I know that we have historically sucked at executing them, but I thought that last week we had shown some progress in that area.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
Screens are purely constraint plays. They aren’t “sound” plays and won’t work unless the defense is overreacting to something else. Right now, they know they can line up in press man and win, there’s no overreacting to anything.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Well obviously the player is running a 2 yard route. I think there are 2 problems – first without the fear of a deep threat – there is no space for the underneath route to get YAC. Second, I think the defenses know that usually there is not time to read other options.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
Yes and yes. Colt has to throw downfield more, and he’s got to do a better job of getting his protections settled before the snap and anticipating what the defense will do.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I actually don’t think McCoy is capable of throwing downfield. Not with accuracy anyway.
I'm entitled to my opinion. Especially if I'm wrong.
why is the SF installation of the wco SO much farther along than the browns’ appears to be? is it a matter of personnel? even if our guys aren’t that good, can’t we still at least try to implement the plays/formations/concepts? is it the youth of our players? or is jim harbaugh just that much better of a coach today?
gutted out a win, great defensive performance, need more from the offense...
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 31, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
because they’ve always been in a WCO, this is our first year… they just have a new guy running a very similar system
That is incorrect.
Last WCO type offense was, what in 2005/06?
We had Martz.. I have no idea how to classify Raye. West Coast Madness?
Personnel is a large part of it, especially that personnel matching what the coach wants to do and the winning formula that he is most comfortable with. Ultimately, I can’t tell if Harbaugh is especially good or just lucky that his personnel has matched up so well with his style.
Even if you think about those Stanford teams, they were going to run the ball and go down the field off of play action. They were going to use a lot of shifts and motions, and they were going to burn you a few times each game because of it. They had a lot of good run blocking linemen, good, physical, tough backs, and TEs/FBs who could block and catch the ball (I know, I know, stop talking about Maceric). But seriously, how much does that match up exactly with SF?
Another thing that is hurting Shurmur and helping Harbaugh I think is the ambitiousness of the scope of their installations in year 1. With the limited offseason, we seem like a jack of all trades and a master of none. From my limited sample of 49ers games (two complete games and one half-asleep half) they seem to be more concentrated in what they are trying to do.
The plays/formations/concepts don’t mean anything by themselves. Walsh said that anyone who tried to duplicate the WCO simply by copying his plays and formations was doomed to failure, and he was right. It’s about the method of integrating everything from ballboys to practice reps to game plans to player acquisition—everything into the system.
We could try, but without an offseason to get a look at everything, develop a plan to install and implement the offense, teach everything to our players, and then get them enough reps to be good I don’t think it would really benefit us.
Youth, inexperience, lack of talent, and past front office transitions are all factors working against Shurmur, whether or not he can turn things around and overcome those remains to be seeen.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
can my texan’s account be activated please
Smile big, hug bigger. Talk big, act bigger. Stop judging do something, shut the fck up do something.
by pwndabear on Oct 31, 2011 4:55 PM EDT reply actions 9 recs
This was way funnier than it should have been.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Oct 31, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
LMAO – Rec.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 31, 2011 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Mods, get ready to ban.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Oct 31, 2011 11:32 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Ah man! Did I miss a lot?
My dog is a badass. His name is Kosar.
Why does the internet have political prisoners?
by Brownie's Year on Nov 1, 2011 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s a badass picture, btw.
My dog is a badass. His name is Kosar.
Why does the internet have political prisoners?
by Brownie's Year on Nov 1, 2011 2:33 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s Joe Thomas with mustache + Chuck Norris.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I know it’s Thomas. Didn’t know it’s Norris’ body. Awesome.
My dog is a badass. His name is Kosar.
Why does the internet have political prisoners?
by Brownie's Year on Nov 1, 2011 4:24 AM EDT up reply actions
You shall be pancaked for placing the head of Joe Thomas atop the body of a puny weakling mortal.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Nov 1, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Colt Mccoy is the answer, and he is certainly not a problem
The problem is pat shurmur
Colt Mccoy isthe answer, and he is certainly nota problem
fixed.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
by Dawg Nuts on Nov 1, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
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