Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: NFL Players Ready To Welcome Gay Teammate

Browns Get Picked Apart by Titans 31-13 Heading Into Bye Week

CLEVELAND, OH - OCTOBER 2: Defensive end Dave Ball #98 of the Tennessee Titans fails to tackle quarterback Colt McCoy #12 of the Cleveland Browns during the fourth quarter at Cleveland Browns Stadium on October 2, 2011 in Cleveland, Ohio. The Titans defeated the Browns 31-13. (Photo by Jason Miller/Getty Images)

It would have been nice for the Cleveland Browns to head into their bye week at 3-1. Heading into the season, I think fans thought that was a real possibility. Cleveland ended up picking up wins over two teams that are a combined 0-8, and they ended up losing to two teams that are a combined 5-3. The Titans looked like a team that could contend in their division. After what we saw the Ravens' defense to do the Jets this past Sunday though, I'm not so sure I can say the same about the Browns in the AFC North.

TENNESSEE TITANS (3-1) GAME #4 CLEVELAND BROWNS (2-2)
VS.
31 13

Star-divide

WEEK 4 - TENNESSEE TITANS VS. CLEVELAND BROWNS (COMPLETE GAME REVIEW)

  1. Goat of the Week: S Usama Young - I know Scott Fujita was responsible for the coverage on tight end Jared Cook and looked slow as dirt in comparison, but even if Fujita gives up a big play of around 35 yards, it should not have gone 80 yards. Young had a clean and relatively easy shot at the tight end and just whiffed (or fell off the back of Cook, whatever you want to call it). Cook didn't even try to make a move to evade Young, which makes it even worse. Young finished the game with zero tackles on defense, so it looks like he didn't show up on other players either.
     
  2. Goat of the Week: RB Montario Hardesty - He finished the game with 5 catches for 49 yards but was targeted 4 additional times. I know that no one is perfect, but those four additional passes should have been caught. I'll chalk it up as a bad day for Hardesty rather than him having poor hands, because the scouting report on him was that he could catch the football well. I'm not crazy about the dumpoff routes to him on those plays either, but that's a different story. Hardesty also caught a screen pass in the fourth quarter and it appeared that he would have had a touchdown if he had just run to the outside versus cutting it back inside.
     
  3. Awarding Game Balls: K Phil Dawson - The veteran kicked connected on field goals of 48- and 51-yards in the first half, keeping the Browns within reach for most of the first half. He didn't get any opportunities the rest of the game because the team needed touchdowns to try to get back into it. Full game ball award given here.
     
  4. Welcome to the Party: Isn't it fitting the way that wide receiver Brian Robiskie caught 2 of his 3 passes during the game (note: this was the first game all season that Robiskie had a catch)? One completion came on the final play of the first half as time expired, meaning it was a useless play. The final play of the game as time expired also went to Robiskie, meaning it was a useless play. Useless plays for a ________ receiver (fill in the blank). I don't have anything against Robiskie, but if he's taking snaps and not doing enough to get open for Colt McCoy, let's get a Jordan Norwood or Carlton Mitchell in there instead.
     
  5. Neutralized: Before the game, I kept reading that Matt Hasselbeck's protection in Tennessee was superb. I am now a believer of that, because our young defensive line had no chance of getting close to him all day. Ahtyba Rubin was the only guy to register anything; he had one quarterback hit for the game. As a result, that allowed our linebackers and defensive backs to be tested in coverage more than had been tested previously. I thought the cornerbacks held up well, but safety and linebacker were not too impressive.
     
  6. Average Run Defense: Even though the Browns allowed Chris Johnson to have his best rushing day of the season and pass the 100-yard mark for the day, I still don't see the run defense as a major problem. Johnson had a big run early on, but after that, he had a lot of carries that went for minimal yardage. I don't see the Browns as a team that is going to deny an opposing rusher from picking up yardage, but so far I think they've done a good job at making running backs a non-factor on the outcome of a game.
     
  7. McCoy's Accuracy: Overall, Colt McCoy definitely threw the ball with more accuracy than he did against the Dolphins, finishing the game at a 65% rate. Despite the right side of the offensive line seeming to hold up better at times (thank you, Tony Pashos), McCoy still seemed to lack confidence. It's hard to say why he appears to have regressed since the preseason, where it looked like he had all the confidence in the world. The little things need to be fine-tuned for McCoy -- setting his feet better, identifying the vulnerability in a defense pre-snap, and making sure he doesn't miss on the big play. There was a play in the first half where McCoy had Ben Watson on a crossing route that was going up the field. It probably could've gone for a touchdown and would've looked very similar to Cook's score. Instead, McCoy overthrew Watson.
     
  8. Running Back Irritation: Right now, the running back situation is a mess. Why? Because it's not working. Here's what Shurmur has right: he has identified that Montario Hardesty should receive carries in the game. Here is what he has wrong: he doesn't need to let a carry total of series number dictate when Hardesty gets the ball. Peyton Hillis is our starting running back and has proven to be a beast with the ability to stay strong as the game goes on (see the Week 2 win over the Colts). Hillis is getting breathers when he is not tired, and it's clearly frustrating him and maybe taking him out of rhythm.
     
  9. Flashback to Last Year: The problem last year was that we had something like this:
     
    Hillis does well. Hillis does well. Hillis does well. Hillis does well....might need a break. Mike Bell does terrible. Bell does terrible. Punt, field goal, whatever...but it's not a touchdown.
     
    We need to use that same substitution strategy as last year, but just insert a better back like Hardesty. Instead, we're using the duo in isolation of each other on different drives, and it's just not meshing well.
     
  10. Handoff to Hillis & Flip to Smith: One of our worst plays this year is the fullback handoff to Peyton Hillis. This is an example where I like the concept of the play call, but we can't execute it, especially in short yardage situations. What I do like is a play like the one we tried to Armond Smith, where he was flipped the ball as a trick play. The only issue I had with that play is that the opposing defense is smart. I know Smith has hardly played, but his reputation is that he is fast. When he suddenly appears in the game out of no where, especially on a fourth down play, isn't that a little fishy?
     
  11. Three Tight End Set: I liked seeing the three-tight end set that the Browns passed out of. Watson and Alex Smith lined up as regular tight ends, while Evan Moore was split wide. The play went to Smith for good yardage. Why we won't line up Moore at receiver more often is still beyond me. Make this guy a starter and see how things go. I think part of McCoy's confidence in the preseason came from the fact that he always knew where Moore was and felt he could lob the ball up high to him when in doubt.
     
  12. Keeping Pace: Another game, another solid effort from linebacker D'Qwell Jackson, who finished with 10 tackles to bring his season total to 40. I thought it was a great defensive day for cornerback Joe Haden again, who had two passes defended and came a long way to chase down Nate Washington after a pick play toward the end of the first half.
     
  13. Different Game? Big plays are a part of the game, and I am not trying to say that the Titans getting them was a fluke by any means -- they took advantage of our weaknesses. The big plays really killed Cleveland though, including an 80-yard touchdown to a tight end is a rarity, the pick play involving Washington should have been illegal, and McCoy's interception that was taken back for a touchdown. Out of those three plays, two of them should be immediately correctable (the last two): the pick play should have been flagged by officials, keeping it a close game. Then, presumably, McCoy wouldn't have had to force the ball in the second half. The Browns were blown out, but I wouldn't it was solely due to inferiority.
     
  14. Special Teams Tackles: There were 3 special teams tackles and 2 assists. One tackle each went to FB Owen Marecic, CB Buster Skrine, and S Usama Young. The assists went to Marecic and Emmanuel Stephens.
     
  15. Announcer Humor: So...it sounded like Marv Albert and Rich Gannon tried to come up with a little recurring humor sketch through the broadcast about sweaters and the temperature in the booth. I'm not opposed the idea of the announcers having chemistry, but the duo's attempt at it came off as irritating, especially when they were going back-and-forth when important plays were about to take place.
     
  16. Brownies: It was another good day of punting for Brad Maynard, who had two punts inside the 20, including one at the 2-yard line...I thought the trick play attempt to Joshua Cribbs was good in the sense that we tried to get creative with him...even though Greg Little led the team in receptions, this was the first game where I was nervous about his ability to secure the ball...if Mike Adams doesn't intercept that one pass and the receiver snatches it instead, does he go all the way?

Up next, the Browns have a bye week, followed by a road trip to Oakland to take on the Raiders.

Comment 242 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Forgot about Maynard. He did have a quality day.

by johnf34 on Oct 4, 2011 5:33 PM EDT reply actions  

a punter is a position where if you forget about him, he probably had a quality day.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 5, 2011 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

All in all, this game was a C- minus. Its bad, but it isn’t failing. I think we’re still showing progress and thats all I’ve ever hoped to see from this team at this point.

"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"

by troy145 on Oct 4, 2011 5:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Really??? I seen no improvement and the same crappy play. We played a good team and they exposed us. We could get away with the crappy play in our two wins but it is impossible against a talented team and a vetern quarterback. We didn’t progress this week, we got exposed and taken advantage of.

by Granville74 on Oct 4, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree we were exposed by a crafty veteran QB.
I’d chalk it up to learning what we’re vulnerable to.
McCoy setting team records for attempts & completions (tho playin from behind / all short passes) shows me he can handle having the game depend on him….. eventually.

by mr.saturday.night on Oct 5, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

McCoy setting team records for attempts & completions (tho playin from behind / all short passes) shows me he can handle having the game depend on him

i think they’re unrelated. the game depending on him is like the final drive of the miami game. this one he was throwing to try to get back in it. if he succeeded, awesome, if not, we lose anyway. if anything, the pressure was way down for him.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 5, 2011 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I might agree on the grade, but I don’t think we showed progress.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 5, 2011 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

i think a regression in all facets except punting and completion percentage.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 5, 2011 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

i honestly thought i was watching a replay of a crappy game from last year

Smile big, hug bigger. Talk big, act bigger. Stop judging do something, shut the fck up do something.

by pwndabear on Oct 5, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

So I didn’t really get a chance to offer my thoughts since I was out of town. I want to mention though, that I am kind of siding with Rocland here. I think we need to be careful talking about how our record is our record and that this team is .500 and we should be happy. This doesn’t account for strength of schedule which in my opinion plays an important factor into a teams record and may not be fully revealing of the quality of team we are.

The Browns have frankly, had a pretty easy schedule so far. The Bengals aren’t as bad as everyone expected, but realistically they are still a bottom half team and we looked pretty bad against them. Wins against the Colts and dolphins looked better, but still aren’t particularly impressive given the current state of both teams. I would argue Titans are around 10th best team in the league, but how comforting is this when we got spanked?

I don’t want to be quick to say we are better than last year simply because we are .500 now and weren’t at this point last season. I’ve seen some suggest that the Rams may have potentially fallen off because of Shurmur’s departure, but really I would chalk it up to the Rams going through the opposite of what the Browns are. They had one of the easiest schedules last year and one of hte hardest this year. The Rams are going to lose their next 3 games to the Packers, Cowboys and Saints and start 0-7. Does this mean they are so much worse than last year? In my opinion no, they are probably abuot a similarly talented team that is just losing to better teams.

I don’t want to sound too negative, because there are definitely some encouraging signs. First, the front office definitely appears to know what its doing. To not be encouraged by Heckert’s drafting is just unwarranted pessimism. The youth and salary cap space is also very encouraging. The fact that the Browns can put together a few wins even against lesser opponents is a positive, and could mean we end up in the 7-8 win area if we continue to improve.

Now for my negatives. Colt really has not impressed me this season. I see excuses for the line or lack of weapons, but part of this has to fall on him, I really haven’t been too excited by any of his 4 performances this year. I am somewhat fearful for when we play the Ravens and Steelers. Second,. I think the playcalling by Shurmur, particularly the last game, has been poor. This was hashed out to death in the last monster thread so I won’t go into it. Lastly, I think it’s fair for fans to talk about Andrew Luck as a potential player. First this is a football blog, and talking about potential drafted players happens every year and will continue to happen into eternity. There are also scenarios where Luck probably won’t be selected by a few of the teams that might end up drafting first. I could see scenarios where the Colts or Rams get first pick and look to trade down. The most likely trade down candidate could in fact be Cleveland given our multiple first round picks. I don’t think we should be jumping on people for this kind of speculation. It’s going to happen.

by Roger Dorn on Oct 4, 2011 5:48 PM EDT reply actions  

I am somewhat fearful for when we play the Ravens and Steelers.

The excuses right now for why he isn’t lighting it up (I dont believe he’s sucking it up either) is that he isn’t comfortable in the system just yet. By the time we’re playing those guys late in the season, he’ll have either alleviated those concerns and adapted to the system or we’ll already know he’s probably not our man.

"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"

by troy145 on Oct 4, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea, I think there are a number of reasons for why he is struggling and I am not at all ready to write him off. I really hope he improves and think he can, but I just have to say that I am not very impressed at the quarter point in the season.

by Roger Dorn on Oct 4, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think we should have some loose benchmarks for what we qualify as success though… we need an exit plan. How do we know when to declare victory in the war on terror search for a quality starting QB? Do we expect Colt to have reached that point by the end of the season or do we say, “By the end of the season we just need to see improvement and promise that with a few more tools in 2012 we can be a team that contends to go [.500/wild card/division champs/etc]”?

I guess my question to the DBN community is how do we define success with Colt? Its obvious a lot of us disagree on our evaluations of him, but what would we all expect to see to define as “good enough”?

"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"

by troy145 on Oct 4, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haha, I guess I am merely hoping that Holmgren can figure it out when the season is over since he is supposedly the expert. I can only offer my unprofessional opinion.

by Roger Dorn on Oct 4, 2011 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

My personal opinion is that this depends on draft position. If Colt shows improvement but still isn’t in the top half of the league, and we pick in the top ten, I might go QB, depending on who’s available. If we’re a little lower down than that, there probably won’t be a better option available, so we might as well stick with Colt.

I guess what I’m saying is the only way his job is safe is if he’s a quality starter at the end of the season.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 5, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

This. If we’re in a position that a trade up for Luck is an option, Colt has probably already pooped the bed.

Resident Tim Couch Apologist.

by Dawg Nuts on Oct 5, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would go as far as to say that if we’re not in a position to trade up, but still in the top ten, we should at least consider other QBs available. I don’t pay enough attention to NCAA football to know the options, but I here this is supposed to be a good QB class.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 5, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Luck, Landry Jones, and Barkley are considered good talents.

by Roger Dorn on Oct 5, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I knew about Luck and Barkley, maybe I’ll try to catch some of Jones’ games.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 5, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jones will ironically be facing off against none other than Case McCoy this weekend in Dallas.

by johnf34 on Oct 5, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would be ok with any of those 4 if Colt doesn’t work out. I wonder if we would keep him as a backup or if he would be OK if that eventually happened.

We could also be in a Rivers/Brees scenario if we keep Colt 1 more year and all of a sudden the lights go on. I would be just fine with that.

by HenryDawg on Oct 5, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Foles from Arizona could get into the first round, too. Also keep an eye on Ryan Lindley out of SDSU. Huge arm, small school, sounds a bit like Flacco to me. If he works enough on footwork and accuracy during the draft preseason, he’s the kind of guy coaches will think they can “fix”. Tape

These guys are probably not people we’d want to take the job immediately from Colt, though.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 5, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

These guys are probably not people we’d want to take the job immediately from Colt, though.

That’s fine, I would love for someone to be brought in to push Colt. If he succeeds, great, we can Kolb one of them. If Colt fails, at least the other guy had a chance to learn first.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 5, 2011 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

qb’s and starting pitchers … you can never have too many good ones.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 5, 2011 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly why it is unlikely any team will give up the #1 pick when Andrew Luck is sitting there waiting for the call.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 5, 2011 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think those teams who have drafted a guy in the first this past offseason as well as the Rams are probably not wanting to spend that pick on Luck.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 6, 2011 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

I do think the chances that Luck is not taken by the team with the number one pick is slim to none. That said, the Rams and Carolina might be two (if they continue to tank badly / end up with the #1 pick) that would make a trade.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 6, 2011 7:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

I like Foles and he has had good production, though I have never seen Lindley play

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 5, 2011 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Watch the first deep pass of that tape against TCU. That’s an arm.

He’s also flashing some accuracy underneath, but his receivers had the dropsies. Does try to fit some balls in that he shouldn’t.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 6, 2011 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

it’s a really good question that may not have a good answer outside of holmgren and heckert and shurmur.

in my opinion, though, i’m not necessarily going to be looking at numbers to determine if colt’s got it at year end. it’ll be more intangible stuff that’s hard to measure … stuff like: confidence and calmness in the pocket, good footwork, quick release of the ball, avoiding pressure, confident throws (even if they’re incompletions or picks), strong throws to difficult parts of the park (like the momass td against mia). things of that nature. the type of stuff that makes me feel good that colt is taking the snap.

but this has been my fear for a while now: what if our team is so non-good and thin on talent (at least on offense) that we get a very mediocre performance from colt this year? where are we left then? i’m generally of the opinion that colt is not going to go out and carry a team a whole bunch, but if he’s got good complements around him he has a chance to be something pretty good. so what if this year he’s just kind of blah, w/ pretty blah talent around him. what have we learned?

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 5, 2011 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

but this has been my fear for a while now: what if our team is so non-good and thin on talent (at least on offense) that we get a very mediocre performance from colt this year? where are we left then? i’m generally of the opinion that colt is not going to go out and carry a team a whole bunch, but if he’s got good complements around him he has a chance to be something pretty good. so what if this year he’s just kind of blah, w/ pretty blah talent around him. what have we learned?

I’ve thought about this too.

by emily522 on Oct 5, 2011 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed. He hasn’t really done anything to warrant much optimism. I certainly think he can improve, but I see a lot of people assuming he will improve, and I’m not sure why, other than fan optimism.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 5, 2011 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

i think it’s fan optimism, and a bit of the preseason performance.

i expect him to improve.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 5, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think he will, but I’m not anything close to sure that he will.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 5, 2011 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am 100% certain that he will improve.
Will he become a top 15 NFL QB? That’s another question.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 5, 2011 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

BQIB said the same thing about Brady Quinn.

Again, I have hope for Colt, I don’t mean to be 100% negative. But signs are not encouraging so far.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 5, 2011 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

signs are not encouraging

Agreed. But I still am 100% certain that he will improve over where he is right now. McCoy is definitely no Brady Quinn.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 5, 2011 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

McCoy is definitely no Brady Quinn.

I realize you’re a Texas fan and I’m a grumpy Cleveland fan, but I think the jury is still out on this one. McCoy has never put up games as impressive as Quinn did against Denver and Detroit.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 6, 2011 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

if you look at pure stats and take out the issue of how good teams are, sure BQ had a couple of incredible performances Colt can’t match. But there is a reason he couldn’t do it against everyone else, because everyone in the league torched those teams.

Also, when BQ looked bad, he looked light years worse than Colt looked against miami for the first 58 minutes.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 6, 2011 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Colt has played bad teams and defenses. Why can’t Colt match those performances?

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 6, 2011 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

none of the secondaries he has played this year and last have been in the realm of how bad those two were.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 6, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

i don’t think that’s true.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 6, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Being uncomfortable in a system is one thing, but consistenty underthrowing and missing wide open receivers is another. Regardless of the system, some of these throws are simple pitch and catch that a professional quarterback should make and he isn’t doing it. We need to be worried

by Granville74 on Oct 4, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its hard for us to tell whats Colt missing his receivers and whats the WRs being in the wrong spots or running the wrong routes or running the right routes incorrectly, or maybe Colt throwing receivers open and WRs failing to react. Colt has always been cited as being accurate, and our receivers have always been cited as being cruddy, so Im curious as to why so many people are willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the receiver corps.

"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"

by troy145 on Oct 4, 2011 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Why are there always so many excuses for poor play? Why would Colt overthrowing a WR in stride be because of the WRs “being in the wrong place”.

No one is giving the WR’s the benefit of the doubt. Both the WRs and QB are sucking it up right now

by The Licensed Pessimist on Oct 4, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Every QB in the league over or under throws the reiciever now and then… The more accopmlished ones aren’t scrutinized as much as a QB like Colt, for obvious reasons.

He seems to hit Little dead in the hands this year.

Hank Poteat owes me 60 bucks.

by LocalMan on Oct 4, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

My point isn’t that Colt has never missed an open WR. My point is that especially this last weekend, people are overstating his accuracy issues.

"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"

by troy145 on Oct 4, 2011 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

There are a couple of plays each game where Colt isn’t on target, but that’s not what is killing us. It’s not being on time.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 5, 2011 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

There was a crossing route to Cribbs on a third down at one point where Colt got him the ball extremely late. If he had gotten the ball a couple seconds earlier he would have had an easy first down.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 5, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I remember that play and that’s exactly right – if he throws it sooner, Cribbs has room to operate. By the time Colt was done staring him all the way across the field the entire left side of the Tenn defense was already closing in on Cribbs before the throw was even made.

by HenryDawg on Oct 5, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Those plays are all over the place. Most of his tuck and runs are that way except the ball doesn’t come out at all. Thankfully he has some of that “escapability” to get out of tackles. Don’t know how he does that some times.

I think part of the problem is on Colt, but part of it is on the WRs, too. There is no trust there outside of Watson, and they haven’t earned it.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 5, 2011 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not watching the tape, and I don’t know what they’re running, but I find it very hard to believe that most of Colt’s slow decision making is on the receivers.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 5, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think the point has more to do with the trust in the receivers (or lack thereof) making colt slow on the trigger.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 5, 2011 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

They are taking turns from what I can tell. But as we saw with the Miami INT, if you can’t trust your WR to see what you see and be in the right place, you can’t just throw it anyway.

Maybe you put that on Colt, but I don’t.

It’s a very small window of time, and you don’t have the time to make sure the WR is doing what you want. If you don’t throw that ball, you maybe take a hit and a sack. If you do throw it, you risk hurting the entire team in a big way.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 6, 2011 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

almost a carbon copy of the throw behind watson that chris cites in #7 above.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 5, 2011 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

if all of these are simple curl patters, i would be extremely worried, but not all the routes run are simple pitch and catch routes. Colt is off on his accuracy, but he also seems to be off in his grasp of the system.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 5, 2011 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Very interesting point on Luck – the Rams, Panthers would definitely trade down if they get the first pick. However – I’m still hoping to avoid that scenario due to sticker shock. We could very well end up sending 2 first rounders in 2012 and another in 2013. While there is enough blame to go around – including Shurmur game plan, WRs, OL – Colt has to step it up. The lack of timing with WRs is now ridiculous and is prolly 50-50 issue.

Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen

by realmccoy on Oct 4, 2011 6:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

My take on McCoy. He is still struggling to get comfortable with this new offense and his timing with his receivers, and calm down in the pocket. Consequently he is looking unsettled, not making his reads quickly and decisively, and on the rare occasions he decides to take a chance downfield those throws have been inconsistent at best. I’m certain he is quite capable of making the downfield throws, but he has to settle down first. Bottom line: I’m pretty sure I know what Colt is capable of if he can regain his confidence – he could be really good. If he can’t regain his confidence, he’s done. Confidence if everything when it comes to a QB with raw talent, no matter how great that talent is.

Now, regarding Andrew Luck. Anyone who wants to discuss Luck certainly has a right to. Go look on half the other blogs on SBN and you will see them having the same (Luck Sweepstakes) “debates”. But I see it as basically the equivalent of having a perpetual debate on what our record will end up being this season.

There are also scenarios where Luck probably won’t be selected by a few of the teams that might end up drafting first
The chances that the team that ends up with the #1 pick not picking Andrew Luck I’d put at about 1 in 1000.

The bottom line is this: if we win 3 or more of our next 12 games, we are not going to get Andrew Luck.
If we win less than 3 of our next 12 games, I’d say there’s a good chance the FO will try to deal for him.
Now you can debate whether that number should be 3 vs. 4, etc., but IMO if we win 5 games this season Luck is going to end up with some other team, period. And a perpetual debate on what our record will be this season is a pointless exercise in futility and frustration. I have no idea how many more games we will win, and I don’t see the point in continuously contemplating how many that might be. I hope we win a bunch more games. That’s about the extent of my thought process on that topic (i.e. how many more games we will win, and consequently whether or not we might end up drafting Andrew Luck).

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 4, 2011 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

It can’t be 1 in 1000. 2 of the winless teams are teams that will not draft Luck.

by Roger Dorn on Oct 4, 2011 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I believe the Rams would take him. Bradford is having a terrible year so far. The Colts probably will to. Manning is on the verge of retirement if not already there.

Regardless, it would have to be one of those two teams for us to have any chance to trade up for him, and it would still just boil down to how many more games we win. I hope we win a bunch more games and won’t have to give away the farm in order to draft Luck, because that is what it will cost.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 4, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

because that is what it will cost
because that is what it will cost if we win two or three more games

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 4, 2011 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Completely disagree on the Colts and Rams.

by Roger Dorn on Oct 4, 2011 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, I think the Rams might stick with Bradford even if he continues to struggle.
But the Colts – I think they’ll take him. They’re quickly learning the hard way what they’re future looks like without another Manning. The Rams might be the one and only team that would consider a deal IMO – unless Carolina tanks…

(aaaand, so here I am debating the very thing I said was a pointless debate – oh well, I guess I’m sucked in now too :-/)

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 4, 2011 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can see both of those teams taking Luck. I actually think which ever team gets the first overall pick, will inevitably take Luck. When it’s all said done, I don’t think any team legitimately in the running will risk passing on him.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Oct 4, 2011 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I could see the Colts doing it. Why not let him learn from Manning for two years? The Rams, I am with you.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 4, 2011 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Manning plays at least 4 more.

by Roger Dorn on Oct 4, 2011 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I still don’t rule out them taking him. The neck is a serious concern, and worst-case they Kolb him for another first or a couple of seconds in 2 years if there isn’t room on the team.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 4, 2011 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

“Kolb” does not sound like a very pleasant verb even if it is good for the team.

Even Doug Dieken admits Joe Thomas is the real #73

by Doc's Kid on Oct 4, 2011 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it’s better than getting “St Claired.”

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 4, 2011 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

definitely worse to get “munsoned”

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 5, 2011 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

do the Colts know he will play at least 4? They suck right now without a superstar QB and I can’t see them balking at getting a replacement who they can trade if manning plays for too long.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 5, 2011 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Isn’t there some termination option on Peyton’s contract? I vaguely remember Mort saying something about one.

by johnf34 on Oct 5, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think the contract is an issue as much as production. And while Peyton is an iron man, he just did have 2 serious neck surgeries and its a bit rash to assume that he will play until after he is 40 (4+ more years)

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 5, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brady’s talked about playing past 40 and at this point I could see that. Manning? Definitely don’t see him going past 40 as well.

by johnf34 on Oct 5, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Carolina anyone?…

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 4, 2011 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

? I think they are pretty sold on Newton at this point. Or are you referring to drafting Newton the year after Clausen?

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 4, 2011 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m saying if they continue losing I think they might be the one other team (other than the Rams) that might end up with and trade away that #1 pick – because, as you said they are probably sold on Newton.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 4, 2011 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is just my opinion, take it with grain of salt, but the following are teams that will or will not draft Luck:

Will
Seattle, Cleveland, KC, Jacksonville, Minnesota, Miami, Cincy, Arizona, Denver

Will Not
St. Louis, Indy, Carolina

by Roger Dorn on Oct 4, 2011 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fair enough. The more I think about it I could see St. Louis or Carolina, but I think Indy would take Luck. Manning’s career longevity is a huge question mark at this point.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 4, 2011 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Indy would be crazy not to take Luck. At worst its a Rogers scenario. A team like Carolina or St. Louis would be happy to take most of our draft picks for Luck and I might be tempted if Colt doesn’t show improvement by the end of the year.

by HenryDawg on Oct 4, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would include Kansas City in the “Will” category too.

Even Doug Dieken admits Joe Thomas is the real #73

by Doc's Kid on Oct 4, 2011 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even if we had a chance at Luck, I wouldn’t mortgage the future for him. I’d rather continue to build the rest of the team through the draft process for at least two more years. At that point, if Colt’s not our guy, draft a QB. Granted, the QB position is the most important one on the team, but this is still a team sport. If the other pieces of the puzzle are in place AND the front office has made the decision that Colt is not the guy, it’s not only much easier to plug and play a new QB, it’s also easier to evaluate said QB.

I’m not suggesting we not discuss Luck or any other talent; I’m saying that unless we actually have the first pick, it’s probably academic, and I would wholeheartedly disagree with giving away our two current first round picks or any future picks for him.

by chitown browns fan on Oct 4, 2011 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would certainly look to trade our top 3 picks to get Luck (if Colt does not show enough/consistent improvement). Heck, the way the Falcons are playing it could be 2 top 20 picks in the 1st and a top 10 in the second round… I do that for Luck. (we certainly would have to do something with the OL in this scenario.)

by -bobby- on Oct 4, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

And what happens if Luck doesn’t work in your scenario? I know it seems like a huge improbability at the moment because Luck seems to have the whole package and everyone is on the bandwagon, but disappointment happens frequently in the NFL. The same talking heads that are on the bandwagon now will be the first to jump off if he doesn’t shine as a professional.
  
Ricky Williams was supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread. Ryan Leaf is arguably the biggest bust in the history of the game. As for trades, Herschel Walker’s trade to the Minnesota Vikings from the Cowboys is still called “The Great Train Robbery” because of the bevy of picks involved and the players subsequently drafted, creating a dynasty.

The fact is this: historically, great teams have been built by drafting well and accumulating picks, not mortgaging picks for players. As for the Falcons, they’re 2-2. Anything less than a Superbowl victory for that team this season or next is a serious disappointment for that FO because any further improvement in that offense is marginal moving forward. The goal in Atlanta was to create an offense dominant enough to go point-for-point with Green Bay. They lost to the Bears and Bucs and barely defeated the Eagles and Seahawks. No one’s going to argue that Julio Jones is not a talented young man; I’m willing to say he’s ahead of his learning curve. The argument in Atlanta two years from now, however, will be, “was he worth two first rounders (Phil Taylor), a second rounder (Greg Little), and two fourth rounders (Owen Marecic)?” And that’s just so far. We still have unused first and fourth round picks in 2012.

Using history as an indication leads to the conclusion that the Browns will probably be a more successful team with their current strategy of pick accumulation than the Falcons will be in the next couple of years. Time will tell, but I thought we made out handsomely for Julio Jones and couldn’t disagree more with your draft pick value assessment for Luck.

by chitown browns fan on Oct 6, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d take Jax off of the will list and put Indy on to it.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 4, 2011 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jac and Minny just drafted a 1st round QB. Granted the salary hit is nothing compared to what is was pre lockout I still dont see them taking a QB… the ego of their respective GM has to be too big for that. Arizona just traded a bunch for Kolb too and I would expect them to want to continue with him. Just for good measure though I would add SF, NYJ (never know how they will end up or what they would trade), and Dallas (again Jones could go crazy for Luck).

by -bobby- on Oct 4, 2011 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh yeah forgot about Ponder. Maybe take them off too.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 5, 2011 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would probably remove Arizona from the will column, it cost them a bundle to get Kolb and even though he’s not been impressive, he hasn’t been bad. Arizona’s problems on offense are similiar to ours, a suspect O-line and a qb trying to learn a new system.

by Steve n NC on Oct 5, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

gotcha.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 4, 2011 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Doesn’t anybody remember how long it took Drew Brees to get it together in the NFL. Geez, guys, McCoy just played his twelfth NFL game and only four in Shurmer’s WCO. I have been a
Browns fan since i was born and that is a long time ago, lol. I watched the ’64 championship with my dad when I was 12 yrs old. All I am saying as a looooong time Browns fan is have patience. As exasperating as it is, patience is the only thing we have.

by OldTimeDawg on Oct 5, 2011 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with ya. I only go back to Gary Danielson. Like many, I saw Kosar come in & shine right away. It’s hard to duplicate that kind of quick success.
Patience, indeed.

by mr.saturday.night on Oct 5, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

patience is a virtue in short supply in the nfl. it’s a shame, but it’s the truth of the matter.

plus, if you have a chance to take a stud (i.e. luck) you can’t hold off on that b/c of patience w/ someone else who may or may not pan out.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 5, 2011 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree. The defensive draft picks seem to be solid already. Colt McCoy is probably the biggest question mark. If you are going to rate his play till now, it is poor at best. Not average. I see this team struggling as he struggles. There is no where near the talent on this team to over come his performances this year. Wait till we play better football teams it could get worse. The offense could slowly improve but the fear is there that it could get really bad again. I want the rookies and young players to feel there is a future here and hopefully it wont be dashed with a four or five game losing streak where the offense cant get in the endzone to keep the games close. I hate to say we have to wait and see but that is all we have at this point, the season has already been strange.

It really all comes down to: can Colt McCoy mature enough to play well in this offense and lead this team to be competitive. At this point I think it is closer to no than yes, but we will know more by the end of the month. I just hate the feeling we need another quarteback

by champion64 on Oct 4, 2011 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

though i agree that colt has not been good, the thing that he has going for him is that he’s going to play all 16 games, barring injury. he’s got a lot of time to get his shit together and get the train moving in the right direction. don’t write him off just yet.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 5, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought Colt and the offense would be ahead of where they are now. The defense is about what I expected, maybe a little better.

Colt and the offense still have a lot of room to improve without adding pieces and without expecting some sort of miraculous physical improvement. Mainly, Colt has to be working things out with his receivers so that he trusts them to do what they need to do against the coverages they will face, and Colt has to get better at recognizing what the defense is doing at the line before the snap. Protections, hot reads, knowing where to go with the ball, that’s all on Colt and it’s supposed to be his strength. He certainly isn’t going to grow to 6’5" and develop a rocket lazer arm, so he’s going to need to anticipate to have success.

What is playing out right now is the worst-case for Colt and the Browns IMO. He isn’t so awful that it’s clear we need to draft a QB in the first, yet he isn’t playing well enough to rule it out.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 4, 2011 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your last statement is the deal isnt it. UGH I agree, and I hate that I do. But you hit the nail on the head.

by champion64 on Oct 4, 2011 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

At least we know that we don’t want to put Wallace in, so we are avoiding a controversy at QB this season. It’s sad that this is an achievement for the Browns.

Even Doug Dieken admits Joe Thomas is the real #73

by Doc's Kid on Oct 4, 2011 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

But it’s almost a “QB of the future controversy.”

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 4, 2011 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree with so much…but I think Colt is safe. IMO, he has shown the two most important traits for a solid NFL QB: intelligence and leadership. His talent is what it is, and i think he’s shown he can step it up a gear when he’s confident in this offense. I know he’s also shown the opposite at times…but the glaring mistakes I think you can chalk up to immaturity and inexperience (see: INTs by the Dolphins and Titans).
If we draft Luck, it means that value isn’t going to a much more depleted area (DB, WR, OL). I’m not saying Colt is as talented as Luck, but I think this team has a better future sticking with Colt and improving the rest of the team rather than drafting Luck and starting over from scratch. Not saying you were suggesting that, but some fans definitely are.
I really think the biggest issue is confidence. It might be a stretch, but I think the offense looked so sharp in the preseason because it basically became Colt’s during his summer camps. Shurmur has definitely proven that this is his offense since the beginning of the preseason with his thoughts on personnel and play-calling. I agree Colt needs to be able to make adjustments on the line, but I don’t know how much freedom he is being given by Shurmur to make those calls. I think this relationship between QB and HC/OC will and must improve if we have any hope moving forward.

by bone_to_pick on Oct 4, 2011 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think anyone would watch Colt’s last two games and conclude intelligence is a strength. He is very slow in making his reads and then often makes the wrong one.

He might be intelligent, but his decision making isn’t showing it right now.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 5, 2011 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Understood, I guess I’m blaming the faulty decision making on confidence. Despite looking downright bad in both of the last two games, Colt has shown signs of understanding the offense at times and and an ability to string together drives. Obviously this needs to happen consistently, but I blame it on a confidence issue.

by bone_to_pick on Oct 5, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know that he looked downright bad last game. Against Miami, surely. But he had to move the ball against the Titans and he did.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 5, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed. Possibly the Bengals game is a better example…either way my point is the mistakes he’s making (decision-making) are more a result of inconsistent play-calling and a lack of confidence. Both of which I think will improve as the team grows together under Shurmur.

by bone_to_pick on Oct 5, 2011 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Colt’s mistakes aren’t a result of Shurmur’s playcalls. Every play has multiple options for him to do the right thing, find the place where the ball needs to go, and have success. He definitely lacks confidence in his targets right now, though.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 6, 2011 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

My thinking is that part of the play-calling is the personnel in the huddle. Even if Colt knows his reads, he can’t control who the coach is putting on the field…the obvious examples being Moore (is he WR or TE?) and the RBs. I think this is something that needs to be worked out between Colt and Shurmur in order to improve Colt’s decision-making at the line.
All that being said…there were some signs from Shurmur that he’s starting to understand the personnel better. I really liked the 3 TE sets and dual RB looks with Hillis and MoHard…unfortunately most of those looks came after the game was out of reach.

by bone_to_pick on Oct 6, 2011 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

?

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 6, 2011 3:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

for my part, i think the offense is about where i expected it to be, but the defense is ahead of my expectations.

aside from that, you nailed it here. colt isn’t helping at the moment.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 5, 2011 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great Breakdown by Chris and follow up by Mr. Dorn. The only change would be to give a Goat of the week to Shurmer for his Game Plan. And a good mention to Dawson.

"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty

by Red-Right-88 on Oct 5, 2011 4:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

ohh, ouch

was it MCL? thats what i;m assuming

Best sig ever, reason 1, reason 2

by Ice0ne (CAJ) on Oct 4, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think it’s serious. He’ll probably be back after the bye.

by C.b.I on Oct 4, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

My word for the game – underrated. As in the Titans are much better than expected. I now understand how they beat a fine Raven team.

Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen

by realmccoy on Oct 4, 2011 6:37 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I think a lot of us did not underrate the Titans going in.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Oct 4, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

That said, this is still the inevitable conclusion to their season:

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Oct 4, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Usama Young sucks——what in sam’s hell is Shurmur doing, trying to upset your starting running back? We looked very slow and confused in the defensive backfield. We looked like a compltely lost team on Sunday. I am very disappointed and confused at the same time. Also, when is the Sheldon Brown experiment going to end? That boy gets beat a lot.

by Granville74 on Oct 4, 2011 7:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Still bullish on Shurmur – but I have to agree with you on this one. It seems like this was a game where the HC normally goes up to the OC with a WTF are you doing type of attitude.

Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen

by realmccoy on Oct 4, 2011 7:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Unless he has Multiple Personality Disorder, this can’t happen.

I'm entitled to my opinion. Especially if I'm wrong.

by Aussie Brown on Oct 5, 2011 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think the whole HC being OC as well is not really a good thing. Too many things to think about.

\Replying to oneself may be a sign of madness.

I'm entitled to my opinion. Especially if I'm wrong.

by Aussie Brown on Oct 5, 2011 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

been listening to talk radio too much? besides the BS spewed by people paid to talk, anything legitimate on Shurmur shafting Hillis?

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 5, 2011 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

i think the play calling is a legitimate criticism.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 5, 2011 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

the playcalling is a legitimate concern and if they don’t give Hillis touches after the Bye, the use of Hillis would be too. I just don’t buy much into Hillis not playing a lot because of trade discussions.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 5, 2011 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

we weren’t really talking about the hillis trade stuff, but i’m with you. i think all this lack of snaps/touches b/c of contracts, trades, etc. is bs. the coaches will play the guys who dress. end of story.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 5, 2011 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am not sure if we were from the original comment, but “Shurmur upsetting hillis” like Granville74 was saying sounds like some of the stuff hey have been saying on the radio on the trade subject.

I doubt any coach is going to bench an 1,000 yard back who can help them keep their job just because of contract issues.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 5, 2011 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

If they are thinking about contracts when it’s 4th and 1, we have much, much bigger problems.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 6, 2011 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

although the browns lost on sunday, so did the steelers so all in all, it was a pretty good weekend for me.

Smile big, hug bigger. Talk big, act bigger. Stop judging do something, shut the fck up do something.

by pwndabear on Oct 5, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Chris, great point on McCoy not looking confident throughout the game. He had a skiddish demeanor out there most of the time.

This can only grow with time and experience, though. I hope the majority of fans can stay patience this year.

Hank Poteat owes me 60 bucks.

by LocalMan on Oct 4, 2011 8:08 PM EDT reply actions  

McCoy will be fine. Robiskie is hopeless. Agree that Moore needs to play Moore. Hillis needs the ball in his hands. Can’t they put him in with Hardesty to keep people guessing? Young made a mistake. I’m not calling him EricWrightMcDonald yet.
I even think Shurmur will get his head out of his butt soon. Boss needs to speak about this Hillis/Shurmur issue and tell everybody to stfu.

by tribe71 on Oct 4, 2011 8:55 PM EDT reply actions  

P.S. In Heckert we trust.

by tribe71 on Oct 4, 2011 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

whats Heckerts track record with receivers?

Hank Poteat owes me 60 bucks.

by LocalMan on Oct 4, 2011 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

DeSean Jackson and Jeremy Maclin

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Oct 4, 2011 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Colt would take those guys, wouldn’t he?!

by johnf34 on Oct 4, 2011 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope we have the luxury to see how Colt could perform with a WR of their caliber.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Oct 4, 2011 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Congrats! That Clemson has an outstanding football team.

Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen

by realmccoy on Oct 5, 2011 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks. I’m hoping they don’t blow it against BC. They always have issues beating them for whatever reason.

by emily522 on Oct 5, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah that’s not bad

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 4, 2011 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jason Avant, Reggie Brown.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 4, 2011 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh man, forgot about him. I mean before Djax, that was always the gripe with Heckert wasn’t it? Couldn’t find the star WR for McNabb and those NFC championship game Eagles.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 6, 2011 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Did Heckert have that much authority early in his Eagles tenure? My understanding is he was more of the player personnel guy towards the end of his Eagles stay.

by Roger Dorn on Oct 6, 2011 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Pro personnel?

I don’t know exactly how much control Heckert had, especially over his entire tenure there. I don’t know that anyone outside of that organization does. But I thought it was quite a bit, with Reid playing the Holmgren role of having the last call as well as the coaches’ role of having input as to what they want and what they don’t have.

If you are going to put a roster all on one guy, I think it would have to be Heckert in both situations, wouldn’t it?

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 6, 2011 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not sure of sequence, either, but for the last several years Heckert was the Pioli to Reid’s Belichick. Heckert would do the initial eval and Reid would decide among the 2 or 3 finalists.

I think Heckert deserves as much credit (or blame) as anyone for those rosters.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 6, 2011 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

100%. The black hole at WR was a killer for those Eagles teams. And then they went and got TO and regretted it every single day except the day of the Super Bowl.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 6, 2011 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

McCoy will be fine.

I don’t know why people keep saying this as if it’s some foregone conclusion.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 5, 2011 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m don’t think anyone can say for sure, but we know he can play if he stops over-thinking and plays more naturally so I’m assuming that as he becomes better at reading defenses and knowing his own offense and receivers that he will be think less, act quicker.

by HenryDawg on Oct 5, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

he can play if he stops over-thinking and plays more naturally
think less, act quicker

Completely agree with this. I also believe that McCoy is going through a “crisis of confidence” right now and this is a serious problem for him. For whatever reasons, his confidence level seems to have plummeted, and he’s got to get it back.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 5, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shurmur has given his players the rest of the week off, and many of them couldn’t wait to get out of town.
Not McCoy. He plans to spend a few days in Cleveland watching game tapes and getting a head start on the Browns’ next opponent, Oakland on Oct. 16.

(from this AP article)

Part of me thinks maybe he should take the time off, relax and try to “recharge and reset”.
On the other hand, one reason I still have optimism (aside from my homer based optimism…) is that McCoy has no delusions about where he is at this point. He knows he is nowhere near where he needs to be, and he’s they type of guy who’s going to bang away at film and playbooks, practice his ass off and basically do everything humanly possible to improve himself. I hope he has it in him to get there.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 5, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wish there was a way to tell if the receivers are making the right reads or not – that would make a huge difference in our feelings about if he’s the QBOTF.

You know he’s not going to throw any of them under the bus, but someones not on the same page a lot and its just really impossible to tell if its Colt or the recs. I’m guessing its some of both and lets hope they all study hard.

by HenryDawg on Oct 5, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Without coaches tape it’s pretty hard—I’ve tried. You just can’t see enough of what they are doing downfield.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 5, 2011 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

the receivers suck ass, so i’m going to put it on them.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 5, 2011 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

But maybe the QB isn’t getting them the ball? It’s not like we’ve had any pro bowl QBs either.

by HenryDawg on Oct 5, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

but they suck so bad.

there’s definitely plenty to put on colt, but i hate the receivers so much that i take any chance i can to brow beat them.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 5, 2011 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

He can’t, and he should get Cribbs, Little, and Massaquoi to stay with him. NEED to get some chemistry down.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 5, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

if he stops over-thinking and plays more naturally

That’s a monumental “if.” Lets not forget Colt didn’t come from a pro offense in college. We don’t actually know that he will get better at reading defenses or quick decision making. We hope he does, but we don’t know that he will.

People said this same thing about Brady Quinn.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 5, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

The only way he will stop over-thinking and play naturally is by playing… simple. The only way anyone gets better at any job is by doing it over and over.

I think he has shown he can play in the NFL, just not at a consistent level yet.

And, he’s shown me enough already to assume that he’s already 1000 times better than Brady Quinn.

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 5, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not asking for him to be benched or anything, I’m just not willing to assume that he’ll get better. Brady Quinn lit up a couple real bad teams, and we have yet to see Colt even do that.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 5, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

the problem is to just be able to play, you have to have trust in your other players. It doesn’t seem like he trusts a lot of his WRs. Possibly Cribbs, but thats about it.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 5, 2011 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Frankly, I don’t see why we think it’s anyone’s fault but Colt’s that he isn’t making quicker decisions. We’ve got plenty of examples of players being open and not getting the ball. I haven’t seen more than one or two throws that looked like a miscommunication.

I think Colt is scared of throwing to guys that aren’t wide open. This is the NFL though, and you’ve got to do that.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 5, 2011 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am not sure what he is scared off, but there is a tentativeness. Whether he wants to be open more or doesn’t have chemistry, it needs to be fixed and ultimately it does come down to Colt. Even if the WRs are good and he doesn’t trust them, he has to work go trust them.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 5, 2011 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Colt is scared of throwing to guys that aren’t wide open.

I don’t know how you can say this.

I think we’ve seen him try to throw people open and we’ve seen INTs come of it because the WRs aren’t on the same page. I’ve seen Little run the 3-step version of his Curl route when everyone else is running the 5-step concept. We saw him fit that tight ball into Cribbs in the Miami game that drew a DPI flag. We’ve seen him throw fades to Moore, and we’ve seen him try to throw to Watson on the sit/stick routes over the middle. I have noticed several times on film that WRs are running hard like they are running away from a man, but against zone coverage.

None of us see the downfield action in the NFL because we don’t yet have the option of the Madden angle (shout out kwoog). So aside from when the ball is actually thrown, we can’t say much about what the problem is. Even when I look at the tape it is SSS. To me it looks like they are alternating; Colt is surprised by the coverage/goes to what I think would be the wrong side of the field with the read one play, WRs run dumbly the next.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 6, 2011 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

confidence breeds consistency….

I sound like a broken record….

by bone_to_pick on Oct 6, 2011 2:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Right, it takes a whole lot of things to get to that “just playing” point.

Disagree about the “pro style offense” argument though. College teams simply put way less in. Colt is just running about 3-4 college systems at the same time right now. Under center, shotgun, I formation, single back, it’s only minor adjustments to the same concepts he’s been playing with all his life.

At Texas, they were a ball-control passing game too. That doesn’t mean he’ll get comfortable, it just means it won’t be the lack of training in a “pro style offense.”

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 5, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just doubt that he was asked to make the difficult reads he has to make now. I don’t know much about the Texas offense, but it seems to me as if it doesn’t have nearly the complexity of a pro offense, not only in terms of breadth but in terms of what is required on a per play basis.

My brother made a comment to me while watching the game last week that it doesn’t look like Colt has adjusted to the difference between “college open” and “pro open,” meaning Colt doesn’t seem like he’s confident enough to throw guys open.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 5, 2011 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Their favorite play is something that is very much a part of our playbook, as is their favorite deep pass (four verticals) which I have seen us run at least three times this year.

The breadth is obviously much, much different. But that’s something everyone has to face.

But Colt had to throw hot, he had to beat the blitz, he’s had to do at least something with protection, he had to control the ball with the pass, and he had to make reads against coverages. The arithmetic is just a bit different in 21 than it is in 10.

One of the big differences that I think is bothering Colt is the ability of NFL teams to disguise coverage, and the breadth of coverages they can use, which plays back in to disguise. Guys are all fast in the NFL, which means you can sit in two-high and bail out to something completely different at/just before the snap. Players can hide blitzes from further away, etc. Additionally, you have guys like Polamalu who you would usually read to get a feel for the coverage, but they could be anywhere and go anywhere after the snap. The ability to play more coverages means they can create even further disguise; a rolled-up cloud corner might not mean C2, it could be C3 cloud. CBs playing off with a SS in the box doesn’t mean C3 because that S could bail out and play quarters.

Additionally, you have the speed of the game difference—which again is something everyone has to face, even SEC quarterbacks. Holes are smaller, routes and coverages develop quicker, pressure comes faster.

I know what you are saying, but these are just differences between college and the NFL, not between “spread offenses” and NFL offenses. I think you are seeing more pro guys liking “spread” QBs now, like Tony Dungy. This is partly because they don’t have a friggin choice, but also because they are seeing the value in it.

It’s kind of a double-edged sword because in the college game you only have a certain amount of practice time. You can take that and spend it on 10-20 plays tops like Malzahn or June Jones, or you can put in a bajillion plays like OSU. You either get breadth or depth, where you have to have both in the NFL.

So while Davonne Bess learned to adjust his routes based on the coverage in the Run-N-Shoot, other receivers got experience running a variety of routes in their more multiple program.

I don’t think I will ever be one of the people who think the NFL game will “evolve” to be more like the college game in terms of strategy, but I do think I (and real NFL people) are beginning to see the value of the spread offenses and what players that played in them will have to do to succeed in the NFL.

Colt certainly isn’t playing like he is comfortable with “pro open” but I don’t think that has anything to do with playing in a spread. He’s tentative and like I’ve been saying I don’t think we can lay that all on him, but he deserves a share of the blame.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 6, 2011 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

RE: Growing pains

I think everybody is seriously overthinking this whole matter. When you go from one of the oldest teams in the NFL (loaded with veterans) to one of the youngest (with several rookies and 2nd year guys starting), you’re going to have what Mike Holmgren warned us we’d see for awhile: growing pains. So, let’s just take a breath, realize this is a (re)build year and watch the young dudes develop into legitimate NFL players. Help is on the way with 6 draft picks in the first 4 rounds next year (2 first rounders) and the likely return of Eric Steinback and RB Jackson. It’s starting to look like the Browns hierarchy has targeted 2013 as the first genuinely competitive year for us, by which time most of the current Steeler and Raven defensive players will be in assisted living facilities and it’ll be THEIR turn to rebuild — a possibility (probability?) I genuinely relish!

by Wyoming Chas on Oct 4, 2011 10:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Those big guys in the middle and on the ends of the line in Baltimore are not that old… and their pretty damn good. I think they are gonna be a force for a long time.

Ray Lewis won’t be around for much longer, but Newsome still drafts and signs FAs well.

Totally agree w/ everything else there

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 4, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

or they’re

"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur

by LocalMan on Oct 4, 2011 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

moral of the story: we probably won’t win the super bowl this year.

let’s hope Shurmur uses the bye week to fix some of the problems the Browns are having and we come out playing much better football in Oakland

by tr1betime on Oct 4, 2011 11:02 PM EDT reply actions  

McCoy – *Crying. “PLEASE, SOMEBODY HOLD ME!”

Pittsburgh is just jealous. We got Cudi and they have Wiz.

by SpecialBrownie on Oct 4, 2011 11:18 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Regression or not, I still think we have a nice core beginning here. I hope the coaches and players continue to grow together the next few years. BTW another excellent write Chris. You are killing it lately.

Those are my principles. If you don’t like them I have others. - Groucho Marx

by The New Kardiac Kids on Oct 5, 2011 10:01 AM EDT reply actions  

i continue to have no real comment on the coaches, but i agree that i like the general direction that the talent is headed on this team, with or without colt.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 5, 2011 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

my weiner burns :c

"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"

by troy145 on Oct 5, 2011 2:23 PM EDT reply actions  

There’s probably a cream for that.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 5, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

God, I hope so.

"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"

by troy145 on Oct 5, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think this qualifies as too much information, no?

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 5, 2011 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know why we’re wasting all this time talking about Luck.

I’d be way more tempted to grab Robert Griffin mid 1st than to waste 3-4 1st-2nd round picks to trade up and get Luck. The way Heckert’s been drafting… that’s probably 3 mid-high production starters right there.

Moot point anyways, since I think Colt’s our guy for next 3 yrs min, but just saying… RGIII is way undervalued at this point and much more realistic option.

by TKilbane on Oct 5, 2011 2:32 PM EDT reply actions  

and even if he didn’t pan out, at least a guy with some wheels wold be fun to watch

"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"

by troy145 on Oct 5, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Luck really is the next Peyton Manning, he’s worth all of our first round picks for the next decade.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 5, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Only slight.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 5, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, really. You’d give up 10 first rounders?

by johnf34 on Oct 5, 2011 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

if you could guarantee me that luck is peyton manning, then absolutely.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 5, 2011 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Still think it’s a slight overreaction.

by johnf34 on Oct 5, 2011 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

If it was a guarantee, I would do it no problem. Colts have wasted first rounders on guys and they are still in the playoffs every year Peyton plays.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 6, 2011 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

We’re talking Browns though. With the new found draft success and the potential to keep doing well in it I couldn’t part with 10 first rounders. If the regimes from the 10 years before that we’re here then in hindsight sure.

by johnf34 on Oct 6, 2011 6:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Peyton Manning.

Resident Tim Couch Apologist.

by Dawg Nuts on Oct 6, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Andrew Luck

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Oct 6, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

For Peyton Manning it’s a no-brainer.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 6, 2011 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

“Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of shit. That’s all it is, isn’t it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer’s sake, for your daughter’s sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me”

- Tommy Boy

by bone_to_pick on Oct 6, 2011 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

There’s absolutely no way to know that though before the draft. No one even knew that Peyton Manning would be Peyton Manning. He couldn’t win the big one and had “happy feet”. The Colts nearly took Leaf over him.

by TKilbane on Oct 5, 2011 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s why I wouldn’t literally give up 10 first rounders.

The Colts nearly took Leaf over him.
No they didn’t.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 5, 2011 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

thats a big if. I really like Luck but manning is a future HOFer and possibly a top 10 QB of all time.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 5, 2011 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

He is a top 10 QB of all-time.

by johnf34 on Oct 5, 2011 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

possibly a top-1 qb of all time. i think you mistakenly added a 0.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 5, 2011 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I only said Top 10 to affirm what bross said as you’ll notice he said possibly. I don’t think there’s a doubt.

by johnf34 on Oct 5, 2011 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I actually came up with my own list of the best QBs of all time and he was in the top 5 (either 3 or 4). There are just some people that might disagree with him on being a top 10 (I don’t know why) and I didn’t want to get into a debate about the merits. Call it laziness, but I just didn’t feel like it.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 5, 2011 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think anyone who would argue that peyton is outside the top-5 in all time qb’s would get shouted out of the (proverbial) room.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 5, 2011 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can see an argument for 5 guys above him. Otto Graham, montana, Bart Starr, and Unitas because all those guys had multiple championships and were incredible QBs. O still rank manning above at least 2 of those guys.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 5, 2011 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

no. there is no argument that peyton manning is outside of the top-5 all time qb’s. there’s just not.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 6, 2011 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think there is an argument if you believe in the power of winning championships and that championships mean a ton. In that way, you could argue that Starr and Unitas rank higher, but I wouldn’t dream of doing that.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 6, 2011 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

That would be a dumb argument.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 6, 2011 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve heard people try to make it.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 6, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

And they’re probably mouth breathers.

Pittsburgh is just jealous. We got Cudi and they have Wiz.

by SpecialBrownie on Oct 6, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

no. there is no argument that peyton manning is outside of the top-5 all time qb’s. there’s just not.

I mean, there has to be an argument of course but I’m with you in saying it’s not valid.

by johnf34 on Oct 6, 2011 6:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Only Graham and Montana have any kind of argument, and I still think Manning comes out on top of both.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 6, 2011 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you. If Peyton retired today, I would rank him only behind those players (but I think he has a couple years left and maybe another SB run if he’s lucky) and its hard ranking him just 3rd.

You can make the argument for Unitas and Starr, I just wouldn’t.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 6, 2011 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

I never heard of him before this year – is he a 1 yr wonder or legit? He looks like he would be a fun player to watch for the next decade.

by HenryDawg on Oct 5, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Luck has been a first round lock for a few years. Last year he would have easily been the #1 overall pick if he had come out.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 5, 2011 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

…and I see that you are talking about Griffin. My bad.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 5, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

RGIII is legit. He was injured for a year with a knee so that prolly hurt his exposure. He made Baylor, yes that Baylor a top 15 Team for a short while. That is harder than leading the Buckeyes to a national title. He was an NCAA championship caliber track star (I think in 400), and is very accurate passing. He started as a freshman, and has been exceptional from his first snap.

Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen

by realmccoy on Oct 5, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Completion %:
59.9
65.2
67.0
82.3

No, that is not a typo, 82.3% complete. YPA over 7 last year and over 11 this year. 22:8 TD:INT last year, 18:1 so far this year.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 5, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Much more dangerous than Landry Jones – but I think the draft rags have Jones ahead of RGIII and in the top 5.

Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen

by realmccoy on Oct 5, 2011 7:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I honestly haven’t watched RG enough to have developed an opinion of him as a draft prospect. I didn’t think Timmy Chang was going to be an NFL starter, so there is a lot of room in my eyes for a guy to be good in college but not a pro prospect.

But those numbers are just filthy.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 6, 2011 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Doesn’t he have more TD’s this year than incompletions or something ridiculous like that?

If he played for a national power, he’d be right behind Luck on the hype machine… and nipping at his heels.

by TKilbane on Oct 5, 2011 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Before this weekend I saw that, probably not now, but still that’s just sick.

Thanks for the previous info – he’s looking like Cam Newton part II and since NFL teams love to copycat I bet his stock rises if he keeps it up.

by HenryDawg on Oct 5, 2011 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think he might only have adequate arm strength but thats not a huge issue.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 5, 2011 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 5, 2011 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, he is real deal like holyfield

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 5, 2011 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Way too early to write off this offense, or Colt. This offense is a collective failure right now.
1. Shurmur has had some real WTF moments both in the play call and in the usage of personnel packages. Chris called him out in the article on this and he is 100% correct.
2. Colt is not comfortable, he is not recognizing stuff fast enough. When he was against the vanilla preseason stuff – no one was questioning his accuracy. The complexity of the defense is kicking his butt right now.
3. The offensive line has hurt in 2 areas. One, they needed to get Alex Smith in there to help with the blocking and that took snaps away from Evan Moore. Secondly, Colt is getting hit too much. However, I do think the OL is improving faster than the other culprits.
4. I think we all know the WRs are not a blue chip group. I was watching the Lions comeback vs. Dallas – thinking Stafford really led them back. I see him pass literally into triple coverage to Calvin Johnson – TD. That happens here we have a WTF interception. MoMass will be a decent to good number 2. I think it will be hard to be at the top of the offensive charts without the guy that keeps the DC up all night.

Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen

by realmccoy on Oct 5, 2011 5:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Yea, Calvin is making Stafford look good right now and not the other way around.

by Roger Dorn on Oct 5, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s easy to look good when you have a receiver that does this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=617nhhDFomA

…on a regular basis.

Dawgs By Nature: Where we REALLY love belt buckles.

by Adrock2099 on Oct 5, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Take a look at Stafford’s footwork on that play. Talk about happy feet…

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 5, 2011 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Most people couldn’t name a Det pass catcher other than Pettigrew and Calvin. Those guys are freaks and they help him a ton.

by johnf34 on Oct 5, 2011 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

We were joking at the office the other day about how nice it would be to have Megatron on your team in real life … “Hey, NotJoey, where are those TPS reports?” “I don’t have them, but let me just throw a jump ball to Megatron and we’ll be all set…”

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 6, 2011 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do we have a consensus on what Little’s ceiling is? Could he ever become a guy that defenses truly fear?

I don’t remember what his athletic measurables were. He had 1st round potential and fell to 2nd because of all the unknowns that come with sitting out a year, right?

by TKilbane on Oct 5, 2011 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

he’s not a burner, but he’s got all the tools to be big time. not megatron level, but pretty damn good.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 5, 2011 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Little’s best possible Ceiling is an Anquan Boldin type number 1 but he probably won’t become that.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 5, 2011 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

which, to me, would be a great outcome.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 5, 2011 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d kill for that at this point.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 5, 2011 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

it definitely would be. I would even kill for BE without the ego which I have seen him compared too (though I think he’s a bit bigger and a bit slower). Someone who is a legit #1 or an excellent #2.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 5, 2011 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

How can you possibly know that at this point?

Resident Tim Couch Apologist.

by Dawg Nuts on Oct 6, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think part of McCoy’s confidence in the preseason came from the fact that he always knew where Moore was

totally agree with this, chris. and i’m sure we’ve all noticed that every single time moore is in the game (which is increasingly rare), colt throws the ball to him. i don’t know what moore has done to get his PT cut so much, but colt clearly views him as a safety blanket so i want him on the field.

also, the interception (that was returned for a touchdown) was one of the worst throws i’ve ever seen ever. there wasn’t even a brown in the screen. there wasn’t a brown within 10 yards. seriously, atrocious. a trave-sham-ockery.

by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 5, 2011 7:56 PM EDT reply actions  

every single time moore is in the game (which is increasingly rare), colt throws the ball to him.

This is not true. If Colt is comfortable with Moore and he is giving his best effort, I would be all for playing him, but he’s in the game and not being targeted and he’s in the game for called runs. He’s just not in the game much.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 6, 2011 3:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Non-stop coverage of the team with the best fans in the NFL, the Cleveland Browns.

Community Guidelines
Send us a Scoop

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

000_0505_small
Kardiac Assessment % / @# / !@
Small
Top 5 Bubble Players
Small
All-time NFL mock draft on MtD
Buddhathomas_small
Cleveland Browns 2012 Prediction - A Sailor's Perspective
000_0505_small
Kardiac Assessment % / !^ / !@
Cribbs_small
2012 Rookie Predictions
Nfl_u_okoye_200_small
A look of the 2012 Browns O-line
000_0505_small
Kardiac Assessment % / ( / !@
00000021_small
browns Q for 12 who are they
Gray_cat_thinking_small
That time of year again.

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Browns Links

Local Media Sources
Official Browns Site
Orange and Brown Report
Cleveland Plain Dealer
Akron Beacon Journal

Browns Communities/Blogs
The Watercooler
Waiting for Next Year
Dawg Scooper
Dawg Talkers
Dawg Bones
The Browns Board

free hit counter javascript


Executive Editor

Dbn_small Chris Pokorny

Minions

Funny-good-times-11_small Bernie19Kosar

Rufiohookgrin01_small rufio

Hadenward-new2_small Jon @ DBN

Moderators

N3tdgy_medium_small Brownie's Year

Polar_cap_of_mars_planet_small notthatnoise