FB Marecic Understands the Precedent Set by Vickers

by Chris Pokorny on Oct 6, 2011 4:35 PM EDT

Cleveland Browns fullback Owen Marecic talked with Nate Ulrich of the Akron Beacon Journal recently. The fullback situation has been a "wild" one when it comes to fan reaction due to the team choosing not to retain veteran Lawrence Vickers after the lockout ended. Some fans have gone to extreme lengths to express their disappointment of the team not keeping Vickers, and Marecic is aware of the shoes that were left for him to fill:

"I know he’s a great player, to say the least," Marecic said. "I’m trying to find my way to contribute in my own way, but I know he’s a great player. He’s a great fullback. It takes one play watching film, really, to see what he can do. From what [running backs] Peyton [Hillis] and Montario [Hardesty] have said talking in the meeting rooms and things like that, they think the best about him."

Even though Vickers was well-liked in Cleveland, he has not seen much, if any, playing time with the Texans. They decided to keep James Casey as their starting fullback. Strangely enough, Casey is getting the start because of his versatility as a blocker and a receiver (sounds familiar...). Casey already has 8 catches for 155 yards with the Texans this season. Marecic has 2 carries for 4 yards and 3 receptions for 18 yards. Marecic also has 2 special teams tackles and an assist.

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Comments

Marecic hasn’t really done anything for us. I’ve heard all the “FB doesn’t matter in a WCO” stuff here before. My point is this: Marecic over Vickers was a downgrade at the position. And Hillis (in our WCO without Vickers) has taken a hit in production:
2010 (through 4 weeks): 66 for 322 yards, 4.87 y/a, 4 TDs, long of 48
2011 (through 4 weeks): 54 for 197 yards, 3.65 y/a, 2 TDs, long of 24

Over 76% of his yards in 2010 from that time came during or after his breakout game in Week 3 at Baltimore. This season, he’s missed the one game (Week 3 vs. MIA) with strep throat.

This is what I worried would happen. This is why I wasn’t happy about the downgrade.
You can say what you want about Houston’s offense this season, I’m not really concerned with how they are using or not using Vickers in their system. He had an undeniable impact on Hillis’s production last season, and we don’t have that this season.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Oct 6, 2011 5:13 PM EDT reply actions

But are you accounting for the fact that we’re throwing it 3xs more than last year at least?

Personally I like Marecic. The fact that his nickname is Gigabyte because he absorbs so much info is pretty sweet but I agree overall that it doesn’t seem like it was really worth it. We could have used that pick on more OL depth. Then again, it seemed pretty clear the FO didn’t want to resign Vickers for whatever reason (Mangini ties?) so they got the best young FB in the draft. Weird situation but I’m pretty tired of worrying about it now.

by HenryDawg on Oct 6, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions

they got the best young FB in the draft.

Sadly, being the best FB prospect in the 2011 draft doesn’t mean he’s good.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Oct 6, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions

But are you accounting for the fact that we’re throwing it 3xs more than last year at least?

He still got 54 carries in 3 games despite our increased passing.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Oct 6, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions

This is what bothers me more than anything. Why does it seem our plan is to throw the ball more?

Mangini apologist by default.

by Villeslgr on Oct 7, 2011 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions

That’s less than 20 a game. That means even if he rushed for 5 YPC he wouldn’t have hit 100 yards.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 7, 2011 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions

I wouldn’t be quick to attribute Hillis’s decline to Vickers loss. Let’s not forget we lost Steinbach and also had Cousins and Hicks at RT. Lauvao is also getting his first consistent playing time. That’s 3 brand new linemen to account for.

Vickers isn’t even playing for the Texans.

by Roger Dorn on Oct 6, 2011 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions

That’s certainly a factor, but I’m also accounting for the fact that Vickers lead blocking was a major reason for Hillis’s success on the ground last season. I don’t think that loss is the only thing hurting our run game.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Oct 6, 2011 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions

I think Hillis was a major factor in Hillis’ success

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 6, 2011 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Oh, really?

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Oct 6, 2011 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions

I think you’re overestimating Vickers’ impact last season.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 6, 2011 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I think you’re underestimating Vickers’ impact last season. I suppose we’ll have to agree to disagree.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Oct 6, 2011 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions

Didn’t we complain about how little Vickers was used last season?

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 7, 2011 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions

NO, we didn’t complain about it. We bitched about it incessantly.

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill

by JustBob on Oct 10, 2011 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions

Vickers also made Jerome Harrison look like an all-pro for three games at the end of 2009. He definitely contributed to Jamaal Lewis’s back-from-the-dead season in 2007. Of course, Harrison and Lewis were playing well too, but I don’t think we can write off Vickers completely in those.

2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion

by TheDriveStillHurts on Oct 7, 2011 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions

I also don’t think we can write off the offensive line Lewis had or the crappy defenses Harrison faced.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 7, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions

This Vickers over estimated, Steinback underestimated.

"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty

by Red-Right-88 on Oct 9, 2011 6:28 AM EDT up reply actions

On the right side we’ve clearly subbed pass pro in lieu of run blocking. Cousins and Hicks have been bad, but they’ve protected better than St. Claire.

Also, Mangini would use personnel that killed the passing game in order to stack the box with blockers and run the ball. Against the Pats last year, we would play 22 personnel, deploying a FB and pulling a guard to achieve numbers to the right of center. This year we seem to be content to run into 8 in the box in 11 personnel, which is almost never going to work. Especially with our guards blocking like they are.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 7, 2011 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions

better than St. Claire

And that’s saying a lot! /sarc

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 7, 2011 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions

This year we seem to be content to run into 8 in the box in 11 personnel, which is almost never going to work.

Not sure why we are content repeatedly doing something that almost never works.

2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion

by TheDriveStillHurts on Oct 7, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions

We keep complaining about chit on DBN don’t we?

Joking by the way, not directed at you, more at how we, or atleast many of us, spend tons of time here and love it.

DBNFTW.

Mangini apologist by default.

by Villeslgr on Oct 7, 2011 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions

but the problem with breaking it down like this is it isn’t just one variable that is changing.

Teams weren’t loading the box vs. Hillis early on in the season. They didn’t have the book on him yet and didn’t know he was the player to focus on.

We are also starting a rookie and a 2nd year player on our O-Line in the place of Porkchop and Steinbach. Thats a downgrade there.

The run Ds hillis has had to face are probably slightly better through these games than in 2010.

Then there is also marecic to vickers transition.

I think Vickers played his part, but it is ridiculous to suggest that the difference between a very good FB and an average FB is 1.2 ypc or more

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 6, 2011 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions

My point is this: Marecic over Vickers was a downgrade at the position.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Oct 6, 2011 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions

I’m not sure we know this.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 6, 2011 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions

I don’t think anyone is really seriously questioning but using ypc in a point may subtly imply by its usage that you consider it evidence of the difference.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 7, 2011 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions

I still can’t get over the fact that Vickers doesn’t play for his new team.

by Roger Dorn on Oct 7, 2011 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions

Mangini apologist by default.

by Villeslgr on Oct 7, 2011 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Correlation ≠ causation.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 7, 2011 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions

Disappointing move indeed

I was very disappointed in browns leadership when they let an all-pro FB go and wasted a draft pick on a FB when we had other needs to address. Hillis and Hardesty both could have benefited from Vickers for sure, dumb move not resigning him… Now that Vikcers is gone, Shurmur needs to have more two back sets with Hillis and Hardesty, point being which is getting the ball and most importantly is it going to be by a handoff or via a pass … Go Browns

GO BROWNS, GO TRIBE, GO BUCKEYES

by don13 on Oct 6, 2011 5:33 PM EDT reply actions

When was Vickers named an all-pro, I must have missed that.

In fact, I missed the part where he started on his new team.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Houston’s under-utilization of Vickers has nothing to do with what’s going on here

by The Licensed Pessimist on Oct 7, 2011 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions

I think it has more to do with an evaluation of Vickers’ talent and value in the NFL than pointing to Hillis’ stats.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 7, 2011 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions

Really? By that logic, I could tell you that Veikune’s under-utilization by ever team isn’t an indication of how good a football player he is.

You know that’s stupid, so either you know your comment was stupid, or you’re trolling.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 7, 2011 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Right. Talented guys get playing time. The fact that he is not playing, says something. There is no league-wide conspiracy to not give some talented players a chance.

by Roger Dorn on Oct 7, 2011 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions

Really? By that logic I could tell you that Hillis’s under-utilization by Denver is an indication of how bad a football player he is.

You know that’s stupid, so either you know your comment was stupid, or you’re trolling.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Oct 7, 2011 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I will grant there could be factors we are unaware of limiting Vickers’ playing time, but to call my comment stupid is going overboard. Hillis was in McDaniels doghouse and wasn’t given the appropriate chance, but he was moved to a team that was willing to give him time.

I give you that maybe Vickers did something to piss off the Texans coaching staff, but it seems more likely to me that we (and you in particular) are overrating him.

by Roger Dorn on Oct 7, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions

It does seem odd to sign him as a FA and then not play him at all. There weren’t any coaching changes, so they liked Vickers enough this offseason. Most teams don’t usually have a backup FB as for as I know, so I would have expected he was signed to be the starter. I wonder what changed all of that.

Even Doug Dieken admits Joe Thomas is the real #73

by Doc's Kid on Oct 7, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions

The difference is that we traded for Hillis so that we could give him that chance, and the Texans signed Vickers away from us after seeing him play a lot and then sat him.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 7, 2011 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions

It does seem odd to sign him as a FA and then not play him at all.

I would liken it to us getting Jayme Mitchell last year and then not playing him. Sometimes the GM and the HC just aren’t in agreement.

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill

by JustBob on Oct 10, 2011 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions

I think Vickers’ lack of playing time has more to do with the direction the league is going right now rather than his individual talents. It’s a passing league, and he’s not seen as a guy that brings enough to the table in that regard. I think he could, if given the reps in practice and games, but he’s also not getting any younger.

The same sort of situation has been going on with the old breed of strong safeties. It’s not that they’re not talented enough, it’s that they don’t fit the way the game is being played now.

by Legoman0721 on Oct 7, 2011 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions

you’re trolling

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 7, 2011 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions

I didn’t like losing Vickers, nobody likes to see a player who does his job very well leave. But I think Marejec will be fine. I have liked him since the reading the SI article on him last year after he scored a rushing touchdown and then returned an interception for a touchdown in 13 seconds.

The running game has taken a hit with Steinbach out and looked shaky everywhere besides Mack and Thomas. Marecic takes some blame because he is not playing at the level Vickers consistently displayed.

He’s 4 weeks into his pro career, though. Short preseason and all that crap. He’s going to improve. People weren’t all that excited with Vickers 4 weeks into his Browns career.

by Erie's Scribe on Oct 6, 2011 6:16 PM EDT reply actions

Yeah, at least there’s an SI article out there on him.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Oct 6, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions

He’s played 4 games.

by Erie's Scribe on Oct 6, 2011 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions

simms wins this one.

"You are the worst villains in football, your evil plan never ceases."-Mooncamping

by discoinferno083 on Oct 6, 2011 7:02 PM EDT reply actions

You are both wrong.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 7, 2011 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions

WE SHOULD HAVE KEPT VICKERS
In all seriousness, Vickers is gone and we drafted Marecic. I really hope that the whole debate can be put to rest and that we can move on to cheering for Marecic to become the best FB in the NFL.

Even Doug Dieken admits Joe Thomas is the real #73

by Doc's Kid on Oct 6, 2011 7:37 PM EDT reply actions

Maybe the Browns just wanted someone who is capable of catching the ball in the WCO. I always flinched whenever the ball came out of the QB’s hand and Vickers was on the receiving end. Granted that Marecic hasn’t done any better but that might have been the FO’s thinking.

by Kaner on Oct 6, 2011 7:40 PM EDT reply actions

They had no reason to believe Marecic could be a better receiver than Vickers.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Oct 6, 2011 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions

Except that they got a good look at both of them catching footballs and could make a decision based on that.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Oct 7, 2011 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions

There is that.

2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion

by TheDriveStillHurts on Oct 7, 2011 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions

We’re not in a position to run the ball anyway so Marecic, Vickers, or Fullback Jesus wouldn’t make this situation any better at this point. I would have rather stuck with familiarity and kept Vickers and used teh pick on a difference maker on wither side of the ball, but what do I know? We need to learn to score all keep leads and not rely on Coly to throw 60 times a game. This topic is irrelavant to me.

by Granville74 on Oct 6, 2011 7:55 PM EDT reply actions

Wow, my spelling sucked on that one

by Granville74 on Oct 6, 2011 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions

you spelled Jesus right.

"You are the worst villains in football, your evil plan never ceases."-Mooncamping

by discoinferno083 on Oct 6, 2011 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions

I thought it was spelled Jobs

by Roger Dorn on Oct 7, 2011 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Ha!

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Oct 7, 2011 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions

This topic is irrelavant to me.

You might be in the wrong thread.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Oct 6, 2011 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions

some would say he might be on the wrong website.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 6, 2011 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions

That’s mean. Stop chasing people off the site, bross.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Oct 6, 2011 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions

haha. you were the someone I was thinking of and your Vickers crush.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 7, 2011 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions

Mangini apologist by default.

by Villeslgr on Oct 7, 2011 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

i don’t get this.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Oct 7, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Oct 8, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Fullback Jesus

Did I miss something? Is he on the trading block?

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Oct 7, 2011 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions

According the moon, wasn’t that Steinbach? So he’s on IR, not the trading block.

Even Doug Dieken admits Joe Thomas is the real #73

by Doc's Kid on Oct 7, 2011 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions

No, Denver’s fanbase is not going to let Elway trade away Tebow.

2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion

by TheDriveStillHurts on Oct 7, 2011 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions

You think Denver’s fanbase will choose Tebow over Elway?

Tebows not the second coming he’s the antichrist.

Mangini apologist by default.

by Villeslgr on Oct 7, 2011 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions

I though Tebow was being held down by the EV1L ATH13STS!! because he is the second coming, and keeping him as the backup QB will save the EVIL ATHEISTS from eternal damnation.

by Legoman0721 on Oct 7, 2011 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions