Rams Say That Dawson's Kick Was Blocked Too
by Chris Pokorny on Nov 14, 2011 8:28 PM EST
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PrintMore details are being told about the Cleveland Browns' final field goal attempt by Phil Dawson that went wide left. Here is a summary digest of what happened, according to reports:
- Rams DE James Hall, who was on the field goal blocking team, flinched before the snap. Officials did not throw a flag, and league reports say that officials handled the situation fine.
- Alex Mack flinched as a result of Hall's movement.
- Because of the gusting 40 MPH winds, Ryan Pontbriand aimed to keep the snap low to make things easier on holder Brad Maynard.
- Pontbriand's snap skipped to Maynard, but the veteran punter still managed to get the ball down.
- Dawson's rhythm was thrown off, but he thought he still got enough on the kick. From the Plain Dealer:
Dawson suspected the kick was blocked, because he felt like he hit it well despite the deflected snap and the fact his timing was thrown off. The kick was wide left by about six inches. "I was surprised it headed left,'' said Dawson.
- Hall, the player who flinched before the snap, ended up blocking the kick, according to Rams head coach Steve Spagnuolo.
"It hits his forearm,'' said Spagnuolo. "I'm not so sure that even with all the mis-handling they had, it might've still gone through. Really Gary Gibson (who knocked down Jason Pinkston) on that play and James Hall did a heck of a job. They made an adjustment during the game on their field goal block unit and it was critical at that particular period.''
That is a lot of stuff happening on one play. I had no idea that Dawson's kick missed by only about six inches, and to know that better protection could have allowed the kick to go through makes it even more frustrating.
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So after all that debate and speculation, it comes right back to our special teams and our guards sucking?
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're about one loss away from Jonestowning ourselves.
Really the STs have lost at least 2 games for us, maybe more and the Guards have been atrocious. I think we’ve been pretty spoiled with great special teams at the expense of the offense and defense but there has got to be some better quality linemen we can get in here.
But… we’re only 9 games in.
In Golan we trust.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 14, 2011 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
if we had the STs of last season, it’s entirely possible that we are 6-3. We possibly don’t make this play, there aren’t the two TDs against Oakland, and we don’t have the botched punts against the bengals.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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When I saw the kick, it looked really wide. Then again, I was using a poor quality stream and I always think the kicks look way off even when they’re good.
Even Doug Dieken admits Joe Thomas is the real #73
I don’t think it was blocked. Then again, I was crying…
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 14, 2011 10:06 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Why would their head coach lie about something like that, though?
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're about one loss away from Jonestowning ourselves.
by Adrock2099 on Nov 15, 2011 12:37 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Believes his guy I guess. I have watched the play about five times, and I don’t notice the ball taking any really odd angles. I just think it was a busted play from the start.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 15, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Where do you watch replays/highlights? I go to nfl.com but their video quality is atrocious and they make you pay for higher quality.
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're about one loss away from Jonestowning ourselves.
Curse you and your futuristic tv recording devices. My family are the only people left on earth without digital cable.
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're about one loss away from Jonestowning ourselves.
by Adrock2099 on Nov 15, 2011 11:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don’t have cable or satellite. I only get about 3 local channels.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 16, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
2 TV DVRs are where it’s at.
In Golan we trust.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 16, 2011 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
Can’t help but notice Browns fans have become very cynical (can’t blame them, based on everything that has happened since 1999), but I gotta tell you – it’s only a function of time before this team is a regular in the playoffs based on the work of Tom Heckert running the talent acquisition end of the Browns.
My brother-in-law, a die-hard Eagles fan, was just lamenting the loss of Heckert and is hoping his replacement is soon washed out along with Andy Reid to bring in Jon Gruden & a new GM for the Eagles. He mentioned not getting a single good player as of now from rounds 1-4 in the last 2 drafts.
Intrigued, I just looked up the last 2 drafts of the Browns since Heckert took over and the last 2 Eagles drafts since he left.
Here are the Browns players selected in the first 3 rounds the last 2 years:
· CB Joe Haden
· Safety TJ Ward
· RB Montario Hardesty
· QB Colt McCoy
· G Shawn Lauvao
· DT Phil Taylor
· DE Jabaal Sheard
· WR Greg Little
Throw in the extra 1st rounder he picked up next year from the Falcons, and you don’t need me to explain to you this is a really nice 2 year haul in the draft.
Now – check out the top 3 rounds of the Eagles drafts since he left:
· DE Brandon Graham (1st round 2010 – 3 sacks & 12 total tackles as a rookie, has an injury and has not played in 2011)
· FS Nate Allen (2nd round 2010 – played 18 total games between 2010 & 2011, but Safety is considered a major weakness of the Eagles)
· DE Daniel Te’o-Nesheim (3rd round 2010 – Not on the team)
· OL Danny Watkins (1st round 2011 – Starting only because of injuries – which has been a MAJOR disappoint for them. Eagles were counting on him to be really good right away and he is just not showing them what they expected.)
· DB Jaiquawn Jarrett (2nd round 2011 – has only played in 1 game so far this year)
· DB Curtis Marsh (3rd round 2011 – has not played yet, not on depth chart)
Wow. That’s a big difference between the 2 team’s drafts.
And don’t forget – when you look at Heckert’s last 2 drafts in Philly, his top picks included WRs DeSean Jackson & Jeremy Maclin as well as RB LeSean McCoy.
Bottom line – Tom Heckert knows how to pick NFL talent out of college. The draft picks are like night & day in Philly since he left.
Just thought I’d share that with you. You should really pass on that comparison with the Browns fans who read you in the Plain Dealer. When you compare the drafts of the Browns since Heckert took over the Browns to those the Eagles have had since he left – it just speaks volumes to me about the man’s talent as an evaluator & the promise of playoff teams to come in Cleveland.
by TexasBrownsFan on Nov 14, 2011 11:19 PM EST reply actions 8 recs
I liked Graham (as much as I can like a michigan player not playing in Orange and Brown) but I always thought he would be better in a 3-4. And of course, injuries kill careers.
Heckert has been exactly what we’ve needed, but watching this team is still painful.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I agree its painful
and still blame Heckert for lack of Offensive Line Talent – but you have to admit that our Drafts have gotten better (and Philly’s worse) since he’s been here.
by TexasBrownsFan on Nov 14, 2011 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
Heckert has been great. If we get a top 10 pic and top 20 I say go RB and WR this year. I know I know…but a Trent Richardson or LeMichael James….
by jonnyphoenix on Nov 15, 2011 2:44 AM EST up reply actions
If we draft James I might reach new levels of depression.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
That bad? I don’t think I would like it either but if he turns into our version LeSean McCoy I think I could live with it.
I think he’s more Noel Divine than LeSean McCoy.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
size-wise, yeah. I think his impact will be bigger than Devine, but not like mccoy. Probably something like a poor man’s reggie bush in the NFL, but not worth the kind of pick it will likely take to get him
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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I don’t know, it’s my opinion that on the whole Pac-12 defenses suck.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
oh yeah. I haven’t looked at rushing Ds but the statistical mean of Pac 10 passing Ds would rank very low, in the 80s or 90s (93rd for the Ds luck has faced). Fun Fact, the statistical mean of passing Ds of the passing Ds Keenum has faced is about 96.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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Playing Houston probably plays a role in those rankings.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 16, 2011 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
it definitely does. The reason I was looking at the stats was I was making a devil’s advocate post for Keenum for the heisman. If you just look at the difference in yards between Keenum and Luck, Keenum himself skews the average of the Ds he faces by 12 yards a game.
I don’t know what Keenum will do in the NFL, but he is having an all-time great college season with a shitty supporting cast.
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I suggest you watch Houston. He has some playmakers around him including Patrick Edwards and Charles Sims.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 16, 2011 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
he has a couple good players, that’s true. I have watched Houston and those are a couple of good players that are on the level that you might find at a major school. However, that’s really it when it comes to “legitimate playmakers”. He has had some guys making plays, but no one I could see being a big playmaker if Keenum wasn’t part of the offense.
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something like a poor man’s reggie bush in the NFL
the real Reggie Bush isn’t that great. I’m not sure I want to spend much on a lesser version.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
I wouldn’t mind it in the 3rd-4th round. a change of pace RB that gets 400 rushing and passing yards (400 each).
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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If we draft james before the 3rd round I will reach new levels of depression. I can live with it as long as we aren’t spending a top 60 pick on a 180 pound back with some injury history
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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That’d be awful. Would quit being a fan.
In Golan we trust.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 15, 2011 7:54 AM EST up reply actions
If one of those two first picks isn’t an OT, I’ll be very disappointed. Unless we go somewhere in FA to cover the line issues. Would rather draft that position, though.
"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur
I’m talking about drafting Trent Richardson or James in the first. Really, at all.
If either of those scenarios went down, would throw model Browns helmet at t.v., would renounce until Holmgren left, would come back in 2 years when he leaves and we still suck.
In Golan we trust.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 15, 2011 9:49 AM EST up reply actions
I think Richardson has a chance to be ridiculous.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I don’t see it at all. Could’ve said the same thing about Ingram and he’s not living up to his pick value at all. It’s that line.
In Golan we trust.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 15, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
I think he has a chance to be really good, but he isn’t that kind of back that I see and think you HAVE to draft them in the first round. I see him similar to michael turner, but without injury concerns. Not a bad pick, but not in the realm of backs where I feel like I need to take them in the first.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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Richardson is more slender than turner. I see him as a smaller AP. Straight north runner. Not scared to hit. He’s 1st round material.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 15, 2011 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
he is smaller than turner, but he seems to play closer to Turner than AP and I don’t think he is close to the level of talent that AP is.
He is first round material, but not surefire top 10 back in any draft. Adrian Peterson was that. LT was that too. Those backs come maybe once every 5 years and I don’t think Richardson is it.
Certainly a good player, but he isn’t worth the pick for this team.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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This no RB in the first round BS is BS. If you have a guy with speed, size, vision and strength you absolutely take them.
You’re better off using the pick on an offensive lineman.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 16, 2011 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
I’m seeing more (vintage) Jamal Lewis than either of those guys.
But I think the best thing for the Browns right now would be to resign Hillis and spend those early picks elsewhere. If we were a team that was good enough to draft in the high teens, I would definitely consider him.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
What if we don’t resign Hillis? Would you be fine with a second round RB? I have zero faith in Hardesty. He’s not a starting RB.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 16, 2011 2:52 AM EST up reply actions
I think we’ve seen a lot of RBs from the 2nd do really well in the NFL. I would be fine with that, but I also think a lot depends on what we do with the first round picks. If we grab a QB, are we basically committing to a pass-first offense?
If we have neither a 1st round QB nor Hillis, I think Richardson with Atlanta’s pick would be a great value, but I don’t think he’ll be there.
I don’t see Hardesty as a starter right now either, but he is going to get some speed back next year due to the ACL surgery being over 2 years behind him. Of course, he is made of glass, so he still might not exactly be healthy.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
speaking of RBs from the 2nd, I REALLY like Chris Polk
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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I haven’t gotten to watch them yet. Boom Herron could be a good BJax replacement in a few years if we have the roster spot to draft him late and stash him.
Lamar Miller is rated really high right now but I think he’d be a good 2nd round pick.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
interesting thought with boom.
I haven’t seen Polk do a lot of pass catching, but I saw him against Nebraska and Stanford and he was just ripping them apart. He’s got decent size, solid footspeed, and shiftiness. I think he could end up being that 2nd-3rd round back from this draft that turns into a pro bowler.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
That’s actually a really good point, rufio. I didn’t bring a drafted QB in the equation. If we were to draft a potential starting QB, his style/abilities would reflect on which type of RB would be drafted. Putting offensive pieces together is key.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 16, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
One of the reasons I think Shady McCoy is doing so well is his style within the Eagles’ offense. Same with Tate/Foster.
If we wanted to commit to being the 2000 ravens or building our team like that, Richardson would be a good pick. As it is I am not so sure. It seems like we want to be Green Bayish or Philadelphiaish in terms of how we want to win and build our team.
And I’m not saying Richardson can’t do this, but he isn’t exactly playing his featured role by running routes, catching passes, and pass blocking for Bama. If we want to throw a rookie QB out there as a pass first offense, your back has gotta be rock solid in protection. One missed assignment and you have Ray Lewis or James Harrison eating your QB in this division.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
One of the reasons I think Shady McCoy is doing so well is his style within the Eagles’ offense
I think this is very possible. I saw a stat about mccoy. When he was running with Kevin Kolb at QB, he rushed for 3.9 ypc. with Vick in there, its about 5.3. Granted, he has developed as a runner a lot since Kolb last started there, but having the threat of Vick may be helping him a lot.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I totally agree. If we didn’t have major holes, I wouldn’t mind taking Richardson. If I am the Lions or Bengals and am sitting in the mid-teens, I take Richardson in a heartbeat. Both those teams could use a very good RB.
Jamal Lewis is a nice comparison. Build I see Jamal Lewis, but running style I see a bit more turner (though he had a similar style to Lewis so its splitting hairs a bit)
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
If we don’t get an FA RT in free agency, I want one in the first 2 rounds.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
A Bulaga (sp) type would be nice in the first. He was in my top three choices.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 15, 2011 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
I would definitely want a RT with the atlanta pick if he was a surefire BPA. If we can grab someone like the LB Te’o or chase minnifield if there aren’t surefire first round RTs available.
i wouldn’t mind taking a shot at mike adams in the 2nd. he could be a good RT.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Great post. In addition to our top 3 picks playing really well, we’re getting production out of late round picks like Buster Skrine and others like Hagg and Cameron look like they will add some decent depth. Pinkston has been awful but its a little unfair for a 5th round tackle to come in and start at LG in place of Eric Steinbach and do well but hell he’s still in there so he must be do some things OK.
I have a lot of faith in Heckert as an evaluator. i really think he can rebuild this franchise with another very good draft or two.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Me too…watched in slow mo close up several times. No block. Hit Macks leg and skipped on the ground. Thats about it.
by jonnyphoenix on Nov 15, 2011 2:41 AM EST up reply actions
Does it come out with that sideways spin? I only saw it live, but it was spinning sideways so I suspected that the Rams got their hand on it. Also, why lie and say you touched it if you didnt?
Because it sounds good. Dawson probably smacked the laces and it gave the ball the spin.
In Golan we trust.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 15, 2011 7:54 AM EST up reply actions
That’s what it looks like. No block.
Dawson’s stutter step threw his own rhythm off which causes the following; He kicked it too high and inside on the foot. Closer to the ankle than it should be. And contact was too far to the outside of the ball. Foot angle was off. That creates a funky looking shank to the left every time. After watching it (and being a kicker most of my life) this is how I see it.
Green – correct way. Red is what I see Dawson doing on the play.
1. You want to kick the ball with that fat bone that runs from your big toe joint up to the ankle joint.
2. Contacted the ball too far right of his focus point.
3. His foot extension was wrong. His toes were pointing at a 45 degree angle away from the ground. His toes should be pointed downward.
This creates a horrible shank left.
The kicker needs his focus. Timing is everything. If his motion isn’t fluid, it’s a bad kick.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 15, 2011 3:15 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I have to rec this for the awesome MS Paint diagram.
Even Doug Dieken admits Joe Thomas is the real #73
It looks dumb as hell, but I got my point across. haha
by Brownie's Year on Nov 15, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
I learned a lot here. I had no idea Dawson draws red and green spots on his shoe and on the football before he kicks it. Absolutely brilliant.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Nov 16, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I just wanted to congratulate dbn and all of its esteemed members: I was written up at work today for spending too much time on the internet (which is mainly coming to this site).
To avoid getting tracked on their system, I am currently using my phone to post this while taking a shit. That’s right, pants around the ankles and here I am. They shall never defeat me.
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
by pwndabear on Nov 15, 2011 11:25 AM EST via mobile reply actions 10 recs
Gotta love getting paid to crap.
In Golan we trust.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 15, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Just ask Shurmer, he does it every week.
"Call Kenny Loggins, cuz you're in the Danger Zone!!!"
by Gabe Durrant on Nov 15, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Damnit I can’t get away from subject lines even when accumulating shit time.
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
by pwndabear on Nov 15, 2011 2:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
my bad, had to do a quick post before the boss came. I’m in a similar situation. with the internet, not with the crapping.
"Call Kenny Loggins, cuz you're in the Danger Zone!!!"
by Gabe Durrant on Nov 15, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
woohoo first green!
"Call Kenny Loggins, cuz you're in the Danger Zone!!!"
by Gabe Durrant on Nov 15, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No small feat.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 15, 2011 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
says you…
"Call Kenny Loggins, cuz you're in the Danger Zone!!!"
by Gabe Durrant on Nov 15, 2011 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
MAKE ME GWE
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
by pwndabear on Nov 15, 2011 5:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Been extremely busy the last couple weeks. Don’t worry. I’ll get to it my friend.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 15, 2011 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
I wish I had Internet at work. We “do” but it’s worse than a 56k modem because it needs to go to servers out of state and run through a virtual machine. Easily the worst thing about working in a secure government building.
Even Doug Dieken admits Joe Thomas is the real #73
Where do you work?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 15, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
in a secure government building.
In Golan we trust.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 16, 2011 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
Pinkston is like a girl I used to know, always on his back and getting manhandled.
Resident of Believeland.
by browndawgbacker on Nov 15, 2011 1:25 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
WHAT’SGOINGONINTHISOHLAWD.jpg
In Golan we trust.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 15, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
I’m surprised you didn’t ask for a phone number.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 15, 2011 6:36 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
nah we should be the goats if anything. i forget who said it but the definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results; we watch the browns every sunday and expect different results.
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
The key to never be disappointed is to have low expectations.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 16, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
My expectations were already floored for the Rams, and I still threw shit.
In Golan we trust.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 16, 2011 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
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