Instant Recap: Browns Escape With 14-10 Win Over Jaguars
by Chris Pokorny on Nov 20, 2011 4:31 PM EST
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PrintThe Cleveland Browns won this game. I just wanted to get that out of the way.
Even though the Browns only put 14 points on the board, this was by far their best-looking offensive game of the season. There were several lengthy drives that the Browns put together. The first one led to a Chris Ogbonnaya touchdown run in the second quarter. The second one led to a Colt McCoy interception in the third quarter. Near the start of the fourth quarter, the third one led to a nice touchdown connection between McCoy and Joshua Cribbs. The final one, which came when the Browns were up 14-10 near the end of the fourth quarter, is where the big controversy came into play.
Kicker Phil Dawson came on to attempt a 38-yard field goal, and one official waved it off as being no good. Dawson could be seen visibly complaining that the kick was good, and when CBS showed the replay, it appeared that Dawson might have had a point. Granted, you would think the official right under the goal post had a good view of the kick, but the replay seemed to favor Dawson's case. The play was deemed "not reviewable" because the kick was higher than the goal posts.
That's the anti-Bottlegate for you.
After that, the Jaguars quickly marched down the field. Within the final seconds of the game, the Jaguars had one play from the 2-yard line and two plays from the 1-yard line. Both of Blaine Gabbert's final passes fell incomplete, and the Browns survived.
Despite Cleveland's positive offensive day, this game was marred by terrible calls from the officials on both sides. I'm talking about the poor pass interference calls, the Jaguars getting screwed on a replay review, the referees missing a fumble by Owen Marecic, and other things. Both teams were hammered unfairly by the referees, and I'd call it a "push" in that regard. Because Cleveland played better offensively, I still think the right team won this game...but not by a significant margin.
We're 4-6 and will take on the 6-4 Bengals next week in Cincinnati.
Oh...and one more thing: shove it, Maurice Jones-Drew.
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Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
Less to complain about.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
MJD, just like LBJ, has zero championships. Thought I’d point that out.
by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 20, 2011 4:39 PM EST reply actions 10 recs
Can’t close games out either.
What if...
by Danieldelamaiz on Nov 20, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
MJD, just like LBJ, has zero championships. Thought I’d point that out.
Neither team has actual ‘fans’ either. Jacksonville wont even have a team pretty soon.
by jonnyphoenix on Nov 20, 2011 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
Worse place for a football team, Florida or LA?
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're about one loss away from Jonestowning ourselves.
Dunno. Ask MJD…he’ll get the chance to play in both pretty soon.
by jonnyphoenix on Nov 20, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
definitely FLA. i live in LA … and it’s definitely FLA.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
I had to listen to the game on the radio while following along online, so I didn’t see it. However, it sounds like OBGYN had a great day running the ball, which makes me feel better about our line coming together. Hopefully when we get a real RB back we can really gash some teams on the ground.
The LBJ celebration where he pretended to dumb powder in his hands and threw it in the air after he scored.
SORRY! Didn’t know it was an LBJ thing. Fck him then.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Nov 20, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
It was merely intended to taunt the fans who not only lost #6 but also just got scored on. It’s taunting.
But you know when you spend key series in the 4th quarter on the sidelines because you are too much of a #$%^&* to get in there and play you have plenty of time to think of celebrations.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Nov 20, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
When you imitate a loser you end up a loser.
Calvin - "I wonder where we go when we die?"
Hobbes - "...Pittsburgh?"
Calvin - "You mean if we're good or if we're bad?"
by BigDawgGottaEat on Nov 20, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
It didn’t look good up above. Below was more dicey.
by Johnnypronto on Nov 20, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
It was absolutely good.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
At least a portion of the ball was clearly inside the upright.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Replay showed it was good. Even the announcers said it was good.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
Donovon and Dieken were unsure. Looked good to me.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Nov 21, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
I can’t say conclusively that it was because camera angles can be deceiving. That being said, fuck the official, it was good.
Anyone else starting to feel like Randy Quaid?
The ref under that goalpost looked right to the sidelines or the other ref before he called it, almost like….“what should i call?”
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Nov 20, 2011 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
They always check with each other before making the call, that’s not out of the ordinary.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 20, 2011 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
If Rich Karlis’ game winning field goal to beat the Browns in The Drive game, then this field goal attempt was good.
by woodsmeister on Nov 20, 2011 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
true
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Nov 21, 2011 5:32 AM EST up reply actions
I saw a lot of conclusions. Obviously, no one knows for sure, but I am expressing certainty here because of my firm beliefs in what I saw happen and the laws of physics. I am positive that I saw the ball go over the upright with at least a portion of it inside.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
can’t remember (was too drunk and praying to God to let us win it). Being the pessimist I am, I saw it go wide.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Nov 20, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
Of course as a Browns fan I want to believe it went in and it sure looked like it could have but I’m just willing to admit that I literally have no idea. If I was a Jags fan I’d be screaming it was no good but would admit I honestly didn’t know for sure.
No, you have an idea. You can’t sit there and go, hm ball magically disappeared, no idea if it was good or not.
You have an idea, and you fighting Rufio over his idea, shows that you are against the Browns on this one which is ridiculous.
In Golan we trust.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 20, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not arguing anyone at all. And I’m not on a side of it going in or not. All I know is that I don’t believe you can say definitively either way.
And I’m not against the Browns in any form by saying I have no idea whether the ball went in or not.
Of course you are.
In Golan we trust.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 20, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Well poo. I guess unsuccessfultrollisunsuccessful. John is so righteous.
In Golan we trust.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 20, 2011 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
Who are you talking to breh?
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
by troy145 on Nov 20, 2011 5:03 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Honestly man, I’d feel better with you even if you said it was shanked. But you taking this “I’m so righteous, I believe I cannot piece whether it was good or bad because I am so inherently unbiased” is annoying.
In Golan we trust.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 20, 2011 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
Well I think you guys are arguing about a field goal that means absolutely nothing
by RyanBr on Nov 20, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Exactly
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
by troy145 on Nov 20, 2011 5:04 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
It could have meant a whole lot of something though.
In Golan we trust.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 20, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
Could is the middle word in life old friend
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
by troy145 on Nov 20, 2011 5:05 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Last week’s ending is the same thing though and we had huge discussions on it. If he wants to further the discussion, then allow us to discuss. We don’t need awful referees like today.
In Golan we trust.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 20, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
Who really cares we won goooo browns???
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
by troy145 on Nov 20, 2011 5:01 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
and I don’t think you can challenge the laws of physics. it was good.
by SBP on Nov 20, 2011 8:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I won’t lie, I thought it was no good as well.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 20, 2011 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
From seeing it from the other end of the stadium and on two replays it looked like it missed to me, but we won, so who cares.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2011 9:12 AM EST up reply actions
Dawson was right a couple years back against Baltimore. I’ll trust his judgment.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Nov 20, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
i seriously thought he missed it.
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
Until the replay from below, I thought the same. But Phil is automatic.
Even Doug Dieken admits Joe Thomas is the real #73
yeah, after seeing that i thought wait………a……. minute……???!!!
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
Not 5, not 4, not 3, not 2, NOT ONE.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Nov 20, 2011 4:43 PM EST reply actions 13 recs
I will rec any and every post that has anything to do with anything remotely resembling an insult of LBJ. Always.
by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 20, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Maurice Jones Drew, #6, and all of the sports franchises in the state of Florida can all go to hell.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Nov 20, 2011 4:44 PM EST reply actions 11 recs
I tweeted MJD thanking him for the LeBron imitation….not the powder toss part, the not finishing part…
Calvin - "I wonder where we go when we die?"
Hobbes - "...Pittsburgh?"
Calvin - "You mean if we're good or if we're bad?"
by BigDawgGottaEat on Nov 20, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 26 recs
there you go!!
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
This is the post of the week in my eyes.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 20, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
Ive sobered up just enough to not say bannablw things about johnnyprinto
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
by troy145 on Nov 20, 2011 4:49 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
But you haven’t sobered up enough to spell.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
PERHAPs
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
by troy145 on Nov 20, 2011 4:55 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I said it in the game thread when I thought we were about to lose and I’ll say it again. Dawson’s kick was good and I do not hold him accountable for the “miss.”
Even Doug Dieken admits Joe Thomas is the real #73
It was on the far end zone from my seat, but it looked good to me.
We took it as an opportunity to explain to my son on how you have to be blind and dumb to be an NFL ref.
What deck were you sitting in? I may have been close by.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2011 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
ob 1 kenobie had a really good game today, some nice long runs too!!
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 4:51 PM EST reply actions
I could actually go back and look, but it seems like whenever the (real) Browns win, my fantasy team takes a dive. Well, they are absolutely taking a dive today (for instance, Greg Jennings with 0.6pts – really?!?).
I hope my fantasy team team implodes every week! We’re supposed to lose these close ones in spirit-breaking fashion, so nice to be on the other side for once.
Colt has been playing well the last couple of weeks. Some bad WR drops still, but we had a admirable running game today, which helped. Our offense seems to have a different look, too, over the last couple of weeks. I’m going to say we go into the next draft to build around Colt. We can’t fairly evaluate him without having talent around him, but we need more talent anyhow. I would like to pick up a veteran WR in free agency, though. For me, he’s earned the role of next year’s starter. Jury’s still out on whether he’s QBOTF long-term, though.
Next week is going to be a major, major test for this team.
Oh, and yes, add an Offensive Coordinator in the offseason.
by mister serious on Nov 20, 2011 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
I’m so excited about Little right now. A boost from him next year could really turn things around for Colt by being a true go to WR.
I really like Little. He had a pretty bad drop today, but he makes up for it every play. Dude is a player.
by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 20, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
He missed that one on the sideline I thought he could have had plus dropped a somewhat tough potential TD (on a great throw I must add). But overall he is making progress.
He needs work on hands, for sure. It’s up to him how good he wants to be in this league though, he’s relatively raw as a receiver and the physical talent is clearly there.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
unless we get blackmon or jefferies( thats if they leave early) in next years draft, both little AND norwood are by far our top 2 receivers next year.
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
absolutely!! WOW!! i tell you who look like he will be awesome in a couple years, marqise lee from USC. kid has some skills!!
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Off topic yet again… But, USC made me some money this weekend, ha! The line on that game was Oregon by 13!!
how much?? and damnit, stay on topic!! lol
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
We won’t discuss the winnings of my gambling, lol. I actually thought Oregon would win the game, but with Barkley at QB for USC I knew he could keep it within 2 td’s.
he made some really good throws last night. was quite impressed. still dont want him but impressed nontheless
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
NOOOOOOOOOOOO.
At least it’s not Oregon.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
i really think arkanas beats lsu. that wilson kid is pretty good, and more mobile then mallet ever was.sayin that, then the bcs will surely be messed up. i say if houston( yes, i know they wont get the chance) remain udefeated, give them a shot against somebody else. see if they can stand up to the big dogs and have a voice for the little man!
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
I’d watch that fo sho. Houston is like the new Texas Tech.
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're about one loss away from Jonestowning ourselves.
I want the BCS to have to justify putting 2 one loss teams in the title game over a 13-0 Houston. The system needs to burn.
What if...
by Danieldelamaiz on Nov 20, 2011 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
Houston has literally not played anyone. Hard to tell how good they are when they play North Texas, Georgia State, UTEP, East Carolina, Rice, UAB, Tulane, SMU and Tulsa throughout the year.
by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 20, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
So let them get smashed in the title game.
What if...
by Danieldelamaiz on Nov 20, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
but still give them that chance. that way alot of the teams (like boise state) that play softer conferences, have at least a chance to put up or shut up. i like BSU and they did beat oklahoma in that bowl game they got stuck with.but you will never know unless it happens. that being said, i think before too long they will go to a playoff system
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah but if they find a way to beat a 1-loss B12 or SEC team in a BCS bowl, then what?
Boise of a few years ago dominated horrible teams and then beat Oklahoma.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
This is my thought process.
What if...
by Danieldelamaiz on Nov 20, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
so then the following years, make their schedule tougher to see if there is some bite behind that bark.
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
What good team wants to go to Houston to wreck it’s season? There is no incentive for the good teams and the brand names to do this.
Oregon lost at Boise one year and took itself out of the championship race.
Not to mention that many of those guys (including program-boosting players like Keenum) won’t be there in years following many of these undefeated runs.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
thats why the little guy always gets fu@ed because the big dogs are afraid they might get their ass handed too them by a team that wasnt taken seriously.
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
Which is why the system should incentivize great matchups.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
i would love to see 2 air it out teams ( ARK and Houston) in the championship
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
What good team wants to go to Houston to wreck it’s season? There is no incentive for the good teams and the brand names to do this.
This is why Boise has consistently struggled to schedule tough non-conference opponents.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
right cause the big dogs are scared!
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
its a lose-lose situation because of at the time, how Boise was viewed on a national scale. its like the old adage of fighting a girl. if you win, who cares you beat a girl. if you lose, you lost to a girl.
If you go into Boise and beat them a few years ago, no one would care on the national scale. If you lost, that would hurt you big time. that’s what they were scared of. they knew Boise was an opponent that had the opportunity of beating them and the benefit of beating them was greatly outweighed by the cost of losing.
Now it has changed because Boise has a 3-2 record in bowls in recent years, has established itself as a perennial powerhouse, and moved up to a harder midmajor conference.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
but it doesnt look so bad when a good team loses to a good team, on the other hand when you are good and you lose to a ehh team, you look like fools. just ask okla. state.
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
Until they’ve started getting ranked high. Now other not-quite-blue-chip programs think Boise would be a good W to have.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
In other words, Boise is now kind of seen as “good”
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
and it took them a little while to reach that status.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I’m not a conference-elitist or anything (and I certainly hate the SEC), but it’s a hard argument to make if Alabama stays 1 loss to say that Houston should get in over them. Their one loss would have been to the other team (most likely) in the BCS title game.
I’m just saying there’s a reason the polls/computers don’t like Houston. They have literally no played a single opponent that anyone would take seriously.
by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 20, 2011 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
no argument there. weak ass schedule, but who is to say that they might be able to do something like embarass a big time program.
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, I definitely think they get into a BCS bowl. And I think they could put up enough points to beat people, yeah.
by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 20, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
The worst thing is what happens if Alabama beats LSU in the championship game like 10-7 or something? Nothing gets proven. Do we get the rubber match? lol
I’m hoping for absolute BCS chaos with LSU losing to Arkansas and Georgia and Alabama losing to Auburn. Everyone is 2 losses!
by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 20, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t disagree with any of that, but I don’t like any system that allows for 2+ undefeated teams to exist at the end of the year.
Make the system such that your schedule has to be tough, at least for one game in the postseason. Leave it on the field and not in a computer.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Valid. Like most others, I hate the BCS system. I’m not saying I hate the idea of Houston in the title game simply because it would be a ton of fun and give me someone to root for in a year where the Bucks sucks. I just don’t see it happening.
by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 20, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think any team, especially one who lost at home, deserves a “rematch” in the National Championship game.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 20, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
i don’t think any team that doesn’t win its conference should be allowed to play in the national title game (unless they get there through a playoff).
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Houston doesn’t deserve to be the in NC game.
And Boise never should be either.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 20, 2011 9:11 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think they are a top 10 team. If it was a 16 team playoff, sure. 8 team? I wouldn’t put them in there.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 20, 2011 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
My problem is letting any school have an X-0 record at the end of the year and not winning it all.
Let them play until they lose, and if they don’t lose then they get to be champs. If you have even one loss, you know what you have to do to get back into the playoffs/championship series/whatever.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
What’s sad is you could make this change to the current system without altering anything. If, at the end of the bowls, two undefeated teams remain, sudden death face off.
What if...
by Danieldelamaiz on Nov 20, 2011 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
The one part about college football that really irritates me is the whole thing if you lose “early” or “late” it makes a difference. Lose your first or second game of the year and you can get right back into title contention at the end. Lose your eighth or ninth game of the year, and you don’t have time to get back in the discussion. Makes absolutely no sense at all.
I have always been a proponent of a maximum of one undefeated team at the end of the year (the national champ), but Houston’s schedule is atrocious.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
But they should be given the chance to win at some point in the system. They won’t be.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Something like that. Tell me there isn’t a few million to be made out there off of 2-4 more games.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I understand that the smaller teams who get to a bowl and make some money don’t want a full playoffs system. They make money off those games and probably wouldn’t get the chance to do so if there was a 16/32 team playoff system.
But if I’m the Alabama/LSU/OSU’s of the world…don’t I absolutely want the playoffs because you can literally make 3x the amount of a BCS title game if you make the finals? It would be sick.
by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 20, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
They make money off those games and probably wouldn’t get the chance to do so if there was a 16/32 team playoff system.
I’ll have to try and find a link, or maybe someone else has one, but I’m pretty sure i read somewhere that most teams lose money on the bowl games.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
i don’t know if it’s most, but ticket allotments that they can’t sell, etc. do drain dollars. UCONN lost money on a bcs game last year.
but you also don’t have to eliminate the other bowls to do a playoff.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Be careful what you wish for. Playoffs will suck just as bad. Just wait until there are 4 one loss teams all vying for the same spot. Not to mention very few people can travel to multiple neutral sites. it would have to be home/away games until the NC – i.e kill the bowls.
My Buckeyes seem to do OK traveling all over the country.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Because we don’t play games away from Columbus where we get half the tickets on back to back weeks?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Let the bowls host the “Sweet 16” games.
You think the Papa Johns bowl wants Memphis and Army or Ohio State and USC?
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 20, 2011 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
I’d love to see SEC teams start having to play games in the north in the cold and snow in order to win the championship.
by woodsmeister on Nov 20, 2011 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
VT loses to Clemson.
Ark loses to LSU, Alabama loses the Iron Bowl
OKstate loses to OK
All these could happen. You are left with 1 loss Stanford + Boise and 0 loss LSU + Houston.
What if...
by Danieldelamaiz on Nov 20, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
BUT THEY HAVE SEC SPPEEEEEEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 20, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
i’d say any team that goes undefeated in the FBS, at least deserves a chance and consideration
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
which is the way it should be.
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
This is so not true it’s not even funny. Seriously just do a quick Google search of Houston’s schedule
Uhg. I said it to my friend yesterday. Houston is becoming the next Boise. We are all fcked again.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
Do they not deserve to at least decide it on the field?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Then make it so that they MUST play a harder game before they (potentially) have a shot at the title.
If Houston dominated Oregon or Arkansas in a stage A bowl, do you still think they deserve to go to the papa johns.com bowl instead of playing on?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Isn’t that what the computers are doing though? Don’t they make a team have a good schedule to get better computer rankings?
The whole system is dumb. Let Boise try to get through the Pac-12 season undefeated. They lose 3 games a year IMO.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 20, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
Scheduling is out of the control of the schools even though it seems like it isn’t—at least it isn’t fully in the hands of each individual school.
I’m saying make them play a game against a contender at the end of the year if they don’t have any losses. Give them another game to verify who is legit. If you lose, you can’t complain and everyone knows who is the better team. If you won all your games against poor opponents, people might never know.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Agree with this Rufio. The biggest thing we agree with eachother is MAKE them play a game. Just quit with the BS of making your own schedule. I know you gotta play the people in your conference, but I think there should be someone else actually making the schedules every year. Of course, I know this will never happen.
…or make a mini schedule at the end of the year, after conference play…
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Also a good idea. Something needs to be done. But, every decision in the NCAA is based on money. If they think they can make money doing this, then maybe they’ll figure out a way to do it.
If they change the system it’s a chance to add games at the expense of the kids. More games = more money.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
exactly. they beat everyone who was on their schedule. they should at least deserve consideration.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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The problem is that the colleges make their own schedule. So yes, they beat all of the cupcakes on their schedule, that they scheduled themselves. When they made that schedule they knew even if they went undefeated they wouldn’t go to the championship game.
As was said elsewhere, no one wants to play dangerous second-level teams. Hawaii can’t even get people to come to them.
Especially if they have strange and difficult to prepare for offenses.
Blue chip schools have incentive to play conference championship games and cupcakes. That’s it.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
As was said elsewhere, no one wants to play dangerous second-level teams.
Do what Bobby Bowden did when he first went to FSU. Go anywhere, and play anyone. If someone won’t do a home and home, go there twice.
It may not be fair, but if you want to play with the big boys, you gotta prove it.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 20, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly. All the big boy schools have been the big boys for a loooong time. The newer/smaller schools are gonna have to prove they belong. And I’m not saying that’s fair, but with the current construction of the NCAA, that’s just how it works.
I say the big boys should have to prove it too. You think you get the benefit of the doubt just because you have some Buckeyes on your helmet or an SEC patch on your jersey?
Prove it on the field.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Yeah but the program shouldn’t have to prove it, each team should on an annual basis. INCLUDING SEC schools.
I’m saying give everyone a chance to prove it every year. Boise has been willing to go anywhere and play anyone, and they’ve won some of those games. Who is to say there aren’t more teams like that out there?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
So yes, they beat all of the cupcakes on their schedule, that they scheduled themselves
yes and no. they do create their own schedules, but its not 100% in their control. The only thing in their control is non-conference games. And who wants to come to houston? First of all, there is no money in it and college football decisions are very much driven by $$.
Secondly, there is the fact that scheduling a good mid-major is like fighting a girl, its a lose-lose scenario. Plus, Houston wasn’t good last year so teams weren’t going to likely WANT to schedule them.
They can try to schedule big school, but scheduling is a 2 way street.
When they made that schedule they knew even if they went undefeated they wouldn’t go to the championship game.
yeah, because the system is broken.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
You obviously didn’t want to quote the rest of my post where I said that it’s not fair that’s just the way it works.
you obviously didn’t use the up button because what you are referring to is in a different comment that I hadn’t read until about 15 seconds ago.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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Love that shit. You get an idea in your head and you post only to find someone said it 15 minutes ago.
Dawgs by Nature: Where apparently First Amendment rights are a luxury.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Nov 20, 2011 10:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
lee is really good, but he’s not even close to being the best receiver on his own team. robert woods (#2) is a complete freak and the best receiver in the country right now (not saying the best pro prospect, but the best collegiate receiver w/ the best statistics).
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
yes, he is definitely raw. that’s one thing people are forgetting. I think he maybe had 1 year actually playing as a WR.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
The WR were terrific today. Most of your “drops” were from the TE. Colt is not a natural passer, which is the question Colt will have to answer: Can he develope his throwing skills enough to lead the Browns to the super bowl. Montana and Brees made it eventually. Frye did not.
by Johnnypronto on Nov 20, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
Yes he is an unnatural passer, and artificial construction created in the lab to the throw footballs in a way God, or Joe Thomas, did not intend.
by BiggieBrown on Nov 20, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
You are thinking of Tebow.
What if...
by Danieldelamaiz on Nov 20, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Colt is not a natural passer
…?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
He doesn’t see the field well. Some guys just have that gift of seeing the playing field and exactly knowing where to go with the ball. Some guys have to learn this trait.
This is a spot where Luck gets his most hype. Colt is having to “learn”. Whether he can learn enough is the question.
by Johnnypronto on Nov 20, 2011 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
I have two questions:
1. Did you watch this game?
2. Are you sober?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Nov 20, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
They all had to learn it. Some learn it faster and better than others. No one is born with the ability to read a defense.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 20, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
We can always count on this “gentleman” to show us how were all wrong colt is actually the worst qb in sport.
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
by troy145 on Nov 20, 2011 5:18 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
He doesn’t see the field so well he almost missed 2 or 3 throws because he saw something 2 seconds before the receivers did. troll better, not harder.
What if...
by Danieldelamaiz on Nov 20, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
I was reading some Johnny Pronto stuff. This was the most ridiculous.
Dawgs by Nature: Where apparently First Amendment rights are a luxury.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Nov 20, 2011 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
Where I don’t believe in Shurmur, I do believe in McCoy. Build the MF GD offensive line and give this kid some talent to work with. And Mike get an O.C.
Dawgs by Nature: Where apparently First Amendment rights are a luxury.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Nov 20, 2011 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
I’d rec it if I could on iphone
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
by troy145 on Nov 20, 2011 4:58 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
If Colt keeps up the kind of performances he had this week and last to finish the season, I’m willing to give him next year. Mainly because of the defenses we’ll be facing. He’s slowly improving.
Even Doug Dieken admits Joe Thomas is the real #73
I’m not totally ready to give him next year. Let’s not forget the first half of the season. I know today’s game is fresh in our minds, but automatically saying he should be the starter next season is optimistic to say the least. I think we’ll get a better idea after we play the Ravens and Steelers twice, instead of the Rams and Jaguars back to back.
If Colt keeps up the kind of performances he had this week and last to finish the season
I agree. That’s why I said it.
Even Doug Dieken admits Joe Thomas is the real #73
Did you even read his comment??
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
by troy145 on Nov 20, 2011 5:03 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Would you rather get a new QB and not improve our lines and safety (and LB and C)?
Dawgs by Nature: Where apparently First Amendment rights are a luxury.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Nov 20, 2011 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
Why does getting a QB preclude us from doing those other things?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2011 9:14 AM EST up reply actions
I think the Browns will draft a quarterback, but if there is a better player in a different position of need on the team (which is pretty much everywhere but left Tackle and Center) Heckert will draft a the better player over a quarterback.
I think a QB will be picked no matter what this year. Not as many “immediate” (loosely termed here) needs. If Colt keeps putting games like this together then we’ll probably get a guy in rounds 5-7. If Colt get lit up and plays like crap (esp against Balt and Pitt) I think we may be checking in with these guys at the top of the draft.
I dont think there is a doubt that if a big name or big arm quality quarterback is there in the latter part of the first round or early second Holmgren will pick him. If it is not someone they covet, you are right a later round quarterback will be selected
so even if Colt puts up solid games against Pitt and Baltimore you think theyd draft a guy with either Atl pick or our 2nd rounder?
If the right quarterback is there he will be selected. I dont think they are sold on Colt McCoy. He may help himself as far as being on the team and an option at quarterback for 2012 and beyond, but I do believe they will be looking to upgrade the quarterback position with the 2012 draft or through trade.
Ya. I mean you wouldnt call OLB an immediate needs per say, but I think it is a need (with Fujita having 1 year left after this). I would say DE is a need to replace Mitchell (upgrade) but I guess its not immediate per say. so little things like that.
I hear what you’re saying, but I still don’t think there are too many positions where we have the luxury of drafting for depth. What i’m really hoping is that the top 3 picks next yr can do for the offense what the top 2 picks in these last 2 drafts have done for our defense – that is, give it some respectability. Now, whether that is achieved by drafting a QB with the first pick is beyond me. I tend to think it would be best to get some playmakers and a mauler or two at OG first, in order to better evaluate Colt next year.
Just my asshole, er…i mean, my opinion.
We don’t have the luxury of drafting for depth but we do have that of replacing any number of starters to fill any number of non-gaping holes.
Sheldon Brown, Fujita, Young/Adams, Pashos all are not terrible. Any one of them could give us another ok year. All of them will need to go at some point relatively soon.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
especially since we shouldn’t be drafting LBs or O-Lineman who don’t play LT in the first 2 rounds (unless the FO thinks they are perennial pro bowl guys)
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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I would easily draft a RT in the second round. Or a LB.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Yup. If RT or OLB is BPA at their positions, even in the first round, I take them. Now, it is very rare for RT to be BPA (which in my book, adjusts for importance of position) in the part of the first round we draft, but if Atlanta makes the playoffs, it is very possible there can be a stud RT or even a Guard that we should draft.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 21, 2011 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
I am really hoping Atlanta can miss the playoffs.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Going to be hard for Chicago now.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Their schedule looks pretty easy the rest of the way, with games against Oakland and Green Bay really being the only difficult opponents they face. They should be able to steal three more games the rest of the way against Seattle, KC, Minnesota, and Denver.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 22, 2011 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
All I am saying is that line is not good, and Cutler made that offense a lot better. Still a very good team, but Minnesota and Denver could challenge them. Also, it’s the NFL so crazy things will happen.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Right I’m not disagreeing with you, it’s going to be hard. I just think they can do it.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 22, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
I think the Bears will serve as a fine example to show the doubters of our OL that having a better QB can make a huge difference. They’ll be considerably worse now, unless they sign Orton.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
Criticizing the o-line and saying a QB can definitely make a huge difference are not mutually exclusive opinions though.
I’ve probably been overly critical of our o-line (although most of my statements I was speaking generally to the overall “protection” which includes the backs and how they are integrated / the execution, etc.). But I think most of us agree that Pinkston and Lauvao have been weak links, and there’s no arguing that Pashos injury issues have also been a problem.
Again, though, none of this is inconsistent with the fact that an elite QB can make up for weaknesses on the o-line or in protection in general.
There’s no question about it, Cutler has been doing a great job despite weak protection and I said as much very recently in a discussion on this topic. I think the Bears’ chances of getting very deep into the playoffs without Cutler are pretty slim, Orton or no Orton.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Nov 23, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
in the 2nd, probably if it was a very good value. If they are clearly BPA, definitely. I’d rather them address those positions a little later.
I meant to say the first two picks, but got jumbled. I don’t object to RTs or OLBs in the 2nd.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I just wish he’d be consistently good or bad already. Definitely trending up.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Depends who’s available. No need to reach on a QB, but if Barkleys there, it’d be hard to pass up in my opinion.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 20, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
I still don’t think he comes out, but it would be pretty tough unless Colt keeps looking like this (he won’t).
The other thing I worry about with Barkley is his physical similarity to Colt. He looks like he might have a stronger arm, but he isn’t the 6’4" 230 kind of guy that Luck or Jones are, and he doesn’t have the kind of “jumps out of his hands” on the ball that they do. Barkley is clearly a great college QB and deserving of a first, but I am a little down on him after watching him play.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
guy is good, not sure if he would fit the system?!?
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
If you can throw the ball accurately and make good reads, you can fit any NFL system.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I’ve seen RGIII make several deep throws and they’ve looked really good. Only highlights though, so obviously take that with a 5lb rock of salt.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Yeah, I agree with that. I’ve watched quite a few Baylor games this year and think he looks really good. I just think he gets that ridiculous stat sheet from completing so many short passes.
Hasn’t he had a couple of 400 yard games? That’s a s*&^ ton of short passes! Or some great YAC or something.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
479 against okla. including a 39 yarder across the field on the roll to win the game. i think he can make all the throws.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
Wow.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
I haven’t watched him much but his numbers are staggering. That throw Bernie posted is legit too.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2011 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know. He makes some RIDICULOUS plays, but he seems to struggle against better defenses. I haven’t watched him or his offense enough to know if it’s just a disparity in the talent around him or if he gets confused or just can’t make the kind of throw that he’ll need to in the NFL.
His stat lines are insane though.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
accuracy is what i think is best about him. and his arm is pretty strong too.
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
Is USC’s bowl ban over next year? That would be the only way I see him coming back. He’s around 6’2" 220, so he has pretty good size.
Yeah, he could come back and potentially play for a championship. A big reason to stay. He also clearly enjoys it there, as it would have been easy to leave when Carrol left and the sanctions came in. He stayed.
Colt is 6’1 1/4" and 215-220. It’s not that that’s too small, it’s the whole “all too similar” illogical thing.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
USC are national title contenders next year and barkley is the heisman favorite if he comes back. bowl ban is up … i think he’s back in LA next year, too.
barkley’s not a massive physical presence, but he is bigger than colt, has a stronger arm than colt, and appears to run a real pro-style offense.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
I think Barkley has a stronger arm, but its not all-pro. He is a couple inches taller, but not 6’4’’
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Barkley looked good last night. He’s no scrub.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
didnt jaret lee look good against oregon? not interested in draftin him either though
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
didnt jaret lee look good against oregon?
no.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think he is a scrub, but I am not sure if Barkley is legit top 10 pick
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Jacksonville actually has quite a good passing D and he was able to have a solid game.
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yeah, I’m warming up to him. he played a decent game today.
I’d rather watch Colt than DA!
They showed a closeup of his face when he came into the first huddle today.
He looked absolutely determined and ready to do a job.
didn’t see today’s game, or much of last week’s game, so my (negative) opinion of colt hasn’t changed much — even though i realize that’s unfair b/c i haven’t been watching.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Over the last 6 weeks:
Completion %: 46.7, 57.1, 64.7, 63.6, 74.1, 70.8.
Yards/Attempt: 4.8, 5.09, 7.09, 6.64, 8.07, 8.29
I would venture his sack rate is down as well, and Adjusted Net Yards/Attempt is up. ANY/A = (yards – sack yards + [TDs*20] – [INTs*45]) / (attempts + times sacked)
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
In the past few games, and especially the past two he has started looking more comfortable and confident and there is no question about the upward swing in his accuracy. I think there are two dynamics happening with the offense that this is all attributable to:
1) The overall offensive “system” and execution on the field starting to gel – i.e. Colt’s timing with his receivers, the receivers accustomed to their routes, Norwood solidifying his role, etc. as well as Oby helping out in the backfield and getting integrated into the offense which is alleviating the situation with Hillis & Hardesty.
2) The o-line is having less trouble with protection and the rookie guards are starting to look better. I had been really down on the o-line and overall protection “scheme”, but I think I realize now that the fact that the skill position players starting to execute is putting the defense back on its heels a bit more, which is relieving the perpetual blitzes (hence the o-line isn’t getting overwhelmed, etc. – seems like the offensive playmaking execution and the o-line are feeding off of each other…)
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Nov 21, 2011 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
Won’t somebody think of out draft pick?!?!!?
/s
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
by Simmsinns on Nov 20, 2011 4:56 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
After winning the game, Colt McCoy was photographed running onto the field celebrating
Even Doug Dieken admits Joe Thomas is the real #73
by Doc's Kid on Nov 20, 2011 4:59 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
That helmet-off thing after the game gave me a good laugh. I was about ready to go outside and run around in the street. I’m in a good mood, so what the hell – dare I say it was Favre-esque: “He looks like a kid out there.”
I hope we see him doing a lot more of that…
by mister serious on Nov 20, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
The truly Favre-esque play was that shovel pass. That had Favre written all over it.
We have met the enemy, and they are ours. - O H Perry
Including the “what the^&* are you doing!?!?!!” immediately preceding the confused joy of witnessing what happened.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
It’s almost like he’s a natural passer or something.
by mister serious on Nov 20, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
sounds like he also had a very favre-esque interception on the 3 yard line…
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Everything in Miami needs a dome.
What if...
by Danieldelamaiz on Nov 20, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
including LBJ.
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
oh hes already got one of those..nice and shiny.
by jonnyphoenix on Nov 20, 2011 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
Why do they keep kicking to Hester. Soooo stupid.
Calvin - "I wonder where we go when we die?"
Hobbes - "...Pittsburgh?"
Calvin - "You mean if we're good or if we're bad?"
by BigDawgGottaEat on Nov 20, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
OT: Michael Turner has 74 yards on 9 carries against the Titans. In one and a half quarters! Either we absolutely sucked against them or they’ve gotten a lot worse or both.
Even Doug Dieken admits Joe Thomas is the real #73
i think we really sucked!!! still suck, but we are battling!
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
Obviously.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Nov 21, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
Also, Atlanta is really good. Gonzo, White, and Jones as threats from Matt Ryan? Good luck, defenses.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
ehh! maybe not the greatest, but they can handle their own.
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
To be honest, I expected more then 5-4. But I’m not complaining.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
bottom could still fall out, please
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
Ditto. I think they still need some pass rush and secondary, and to have Jones mature and grow.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
i think jones will be good, i think they finish this year 7-9
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
That would be awesome for our pick. That division is rough.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
so is ours, i say our pick will be # 9 and theres will be#17
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
they have gotten a lot worse.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Chris, I thought it looked on the replay as if Marecic’s knee was down before the ball came out. Was the ball moving before then?
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
No, I agree Marecic was actually down. And even then it was a tie for the ball, which goes to Marecic by default.
In Golan we trust.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 20, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
I need to look again. When I slow-motioned it the first time around, I saw Marecic standing and then the ball go right through his hands and into the arms of Clint Session on the ground. When Marecic’s knee hit, I think the ball was long gone. It actually seemed more like an interception of sorts.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Nov 20, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
I was fairly hog certain Marecic had it at some point. But like I said, not a moment of clarity for me.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I just looked again. As Marecic is standing, he takes a shot and the ball is jarred downward. As Marecic is going to the ground, it almost looks like the ball is “sticking” to his body, but it doesn’t look like either arm has a grasp of it. Then, as Marecic is hitting the ground, the ball finds the hole between Marecic’s body and Session, and lands on Session. I’ve freeze framed it and can’t tell 100 percent sure, because I’m making an assumption of whether Marecic did or didn’t actually have the ball controlled after it was jarred loose. It just seems like based on the way the ball was traveling, he didn’t have it.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Nov 20, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
Wait didn’t have possession ever or didn’t have it as he was going to the ground?
Because I definitely saw it come out as he was going to the ground and probably didn’t have a knee down. But I thought he had caught the ball prior to that. I am sure the replay remembers better than I do.
I’m just glad we got to the line quickly and ran something.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I’m not convinced that he made a football move before the hit.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Nov 20, 2011 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
Ah, the old “football move.”
I love that the NFL allows for this vagueness but insists that ANY helmet to helmet…
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
shouldn’t helmet to helmet be automatically reviewed? doesn’t even have to go down to the ref for an under-the-hood session. just have someone in the booth whose job it is to see if plays that are flagged as helmet to helmet do, in fact, include helmets colliding. those are often game-changing plays, and they are often called wrong.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
I think the NFL should just hire another crew to constantly be reviewing the video in a booth somewhere. I guess they’ve gone with that whole “human error is still part of the game” thing.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
It would be very easy to implement. The NHL has a “War Room” setup at league headquarters in Toronto where they review every goal and all replays are conducted there. Having a crew at league headquarters review calls would take it completely out of the hands of on-site NFL crews.
by woodsmeister on Nov 22, 2011 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
this is really how hockey does it? they review everything at the home office?
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 22, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah that’s pretty nuts. I guess the lag time between that office and every site could be made up for in the improved technology you’d be able to get by only needing one site.
I’m game for this and/or lazers.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
yeah, and it’s rarely any big hold-up. It basically works how the NFL is doing scores right now, except the guy doing it is in Toronto instead of at the stadium.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 22, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
that is nuts. i’m surprised that the clubs agreed to that, and surprised that it doesn’t hold much up.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 22, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
Love the upbeat pulse of this thread but my my wife’s mouth is watering…(maybe just a kiss). brb.
Dawgs by Nature: Where apparently First Amendment rights are a luxury.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Nov 20, 2011 5:12 PM EST reply actions
well wake her ass up, we got a win today!!
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
Love that….But she woke me up!! Took all of 10 minutes for that revelation.
Dawgs by Nature: Where apparently First Amendment rights are a luxury.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Nov 20, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
no details, please!
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry….she’s a very smart lady. Meantime, I put new brakes on her car today.
Dawgs by Nature: Where apparently First Amendment rights are a luxury.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Nov 20, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
kudos to her. and looks like you get a treat tonight for making sure she stays safe!!
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 20, 2011 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
Both teams were hammered unfairly by the referees, and I’d call it a “push” in that regard. Because Cleveland played better offensively, I still think the right team won this game…but not by a significant margin.
I was at the game, and this pretty much agrees with what I saw. Also, I think this was Colt’s best game this year by far. Sure he could have been better, but for the first time all season he looked like a young QB making mistakes rather than a terrible QB playing terrible.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Colt had a really good game compared to what we’ve seen. Take away that INT and it was a great day, but he did make that key mistake.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I heard Cribbs got basically tackled coming across the middle and it was uncalled. Makes me wonder if he was the target and the terrible refs missed the obvious PI
Maybe it was just the camera angle, but even after the replay I was wondering what made him think he could complete that pass to a Brown.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
Orangebanana actually looked like a competent running back today! Our run blocking looked phenomenal.
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're about one loss away from Jonestowning ourselves.
Notwithstanding the comments that are sure to be made about Jax’s D…this is what we all thought the blue-print for victories would be this year. If we had a healthy Hillis at any point in the middle/end of this season, our offense is just much, much better.
by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 20, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
True Jacksonville isn’t the best ever, but I’d say they’re better than the Rams depleted unit, and he looked way better this week.
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're about one loss away from Jonestowning ourselves.
Yeah I thought people were touting Jax as a good defense as opposed to what we saw against the Rams.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
No Pot Roast.
No Mathis. Congrats on the win, though, guys.
It looks like he is finally having the light go on—playing instead of “thinking.”
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I think having some running game the last two weeks is really helping him out. Last year, in the Patriots and Saints game where I thought he looked really good, Hillis ran lights out and really opened the field for McCoy.
Yep. You put this better than I did above. Having the rushing game allows us to do the things with McCoy that we want to do and that he’s pretty darn okay at doing.
Again, a healthy Hillis (or any running game, as we had today) just makes our offense look SO much better.
by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 20, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
This might be happening on the whole offense. They way I’m keeping my expectations low is that we still are a very young and relatively untalented team, but the last couple weeks suggest that we at least seem to “get it.”
by mister serious on Nov 20, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
I will reserve most of my optimism until we play the Steelers or the Ravens.
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're about one loss away from Jonestowning ourselves.
Oh I am, I’m just still not sold on Colt, Shurmur, or the Holmgren based front office (except for Heckert).
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're about one loss away from Jonestowning ourselves.
The FO is one of the only things i’m sold on. We finally have people with a proven track record making the football decisions. Further, they seem to be (gasp!) working together for once.
I don’t think much of Shurmur, didn’t at the time of his hire as well, nor did I agree with letting a first-time head coach being without an OC. You can say what you want about Holmgen’s choice of a head coach, but I’m glad he’s here as I think he hits more than he misses with his decisions.
Most importantly, we are finally having some success in the draft. This is the key to everything, as our talent-poor roster (and general dysfunctionality referenced above) has been the biggest reason for the last decade + of losing.
Bengals
Bengals fans already talking shit for next week. God I hate them. Soo sooooooo much. Buddy today tried to convince me that its better to lose pretty than win ugly. Ya….OK Bengals fans.
Calvin - "I wonder where we go when we die?"
Hobbes - "...Pittsburgh?"
Calvin - "You mean if we're good or if we're bad?"
by BigDawgGottaEat on Nov 20, 2011 5:26 PM EST reply actions
They exist. All I can say about the Bengals.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Nov 20, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
We’ll see about that come next Sunday.
by mister serious on Nov 20, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry, can’t feel one way or another about them. I don’t hate them, I don’t like them. They’re just there. They’re the other Ohio team.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Nov 20, 2011 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
Aside from the jags, and maybe the panthers, they are one of the few NFL teams with absolutely no tradition, no fan identity, no…anything about them…other than they were created out of butthurt to be the ‘other’ orange team. At least those other teams have an excuse…they are still fairly recent expansions. The bengals are just…
………………………
by jonnyphoenix on Nov 20, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
You know what, I almost forgot about that. Paul Brown did essentially found the Bengals to mock the Browns. But imagine where we would be if Fart Modell didn’t buy the team and Paul Brown stayed here? Mike Brown would be our owner, and he is one of the few who is actually worse than Lerner. Sucks to be their fans. Honestly, the only thing that pisses me off about the Bengals is that they made two freakin’ Super Bowls, and we’re still looking for our first. That’s about the only thing their fans have on us. But we can take solace in the fact that San Francisco whooped them twice.
I hate this notion that Lerner is some gawd awful owner. The dude has a big bank and he is willing to use it to get what he perceives the best football minds in place to run the show. Hes a business man, not a football man. Im good with that. I would much rather that then a rich punk who thinks he knows everything (Jones, Davis, Brown…)
Lerner is a bad owner. Proof is in the pudding — every hire he has made had been a mistake. Jury is still out on Holmgren.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 21, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
This is false.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 21, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not. He’s a great owner because he doesn’t put his own ignorant football IQ into decisions, he hires the top people he can, that do have a high IQ. And then he keeps his checkbook open for them and doesn’t bitch when they use his money.
Is he a bad owner because he makes good hires that turn bad 3 years down the road on Aston Villa? Even though those hires were considered the best in the business at the time? Is he supposed to be the Al Davis of Soccer and Football? No, he does exactly what he’s supposed ot and he does it well.
You have no concept of 20/20 past tense vision.
In Golan we trust.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 21, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
You have no concept of 20/20 past tense vision.
What should I judge him? The past is all I have. As shown below, he has made four major regime changes in the last decade - three of those were a disaster. Period. The fourth the jury is still out on. You can make fun of Jerry Jones all you want, but he has done a better job keeping the Cowboys relevant than Lerner could dream of doing. Also, as much as I hate Art Modell (and it’s more than you probably would know), I saw how he ran the franchise — he found the right guys and kept us competitive for most of the years he owned the team. And Baltimore continues to be consistently good. Same with the Steelers. Somehow those owners don’t make three disastrous front-office hires in a decade, but keep their teams’ front offices consistently good.
If you judge Lerner by his wallet, yeah, he did an awesome job of winning the lucky sperm contest and being borne as Al Lerner’s son. But he has not done a good job running the Cleveland Browns. He has been horrible. I am old enough to remember a different Cleveland Browns organization.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 21, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
the steelers were a joke for most of their history until they stumbled into a guy named chuck noll. you need a lot of luck and a couple of chances before you become a great organization. the krafts were no good until they went out and got bill belichick. you don’t just step into being a great organization. modell had how many years of futility in cleveland before he took a chance on the first-ever black front office guy in NFL history?
also, randy is on his 3rd regime. butch was al. randy is 0-for-1.5 (collins/savage/romeo was a failure, mangini was an incomplete for me). this is regime 3 … hopefully this is our chuck noll.
he’s a great owner b/c he takes calculated risks (e.g., savage was the “next great gm”) and gets out of the way; and once it becomes clear those risks haven’t panned out, he’ll pull the plug and move on.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
also, randy is on his 3rd regime. butch was al. randy is 0-for-1.5 (collins/savage/romeo was a failure, mangini was an incomplete for me). this is regime 3
Wrong. Butch was hired by Policy, et al. After Al died, Randy handed the organization over to Butch and got rid of Policy. Re Mangini, it’s an incomplete because Randy changed his mind. So that goes against him and it definitely hurt the organization to suddenly shift direction after just changing directions.
And Art Modell — may God spit on his soul — kept the team competitive most years that I recall.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 21, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
To give the Steelers’ renaissance credit all to Chuck Noll is to discount substantially the effect that early adoption of steroids had on their success.
by woodsmeister on Nov 21, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
To anyone wondering, this isn’t a joke. It’s well documented.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
You should judge him on the decisions he makes with the information he has at the time he’s making them.
I think a “good owner” doesn’t have much effect on the on-field success of a football team. I think a bad owner can severely limit his team’s success.
While we have had anything but success, it hasn’t been because of Lerner. It’s been because of Butch Davis, Savage/Crennel, Kokutnus (sp?)/Mangini, etc.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
word is that, while and incredibly nice and humble man, romeo was in way over his head as the HC.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
Yup. Love Romeo. But he’s too good of a guy to be a HC and not crazy enough.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 21, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
While we have had anything but success, it hasn’t been because of Lerner. It’s been because of Butch Davis, Savage/Crennel, Kokutnus (sp?)/Mangini, etc.
Yeah, but those guys were hired by Lerner so the buck stops with him. Three times is a pattern. I hope the pattern has been broken. But I think it’s safe to say that Lerner does not do a good job of hiring guys to run his organization.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 21, 2011 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
I still don’t think football is as easy as hiring the right guys and sitting back and watching it happen. You can be as smart and as good as you want but at some point you have to get lucky, and that isn’t under Lerner’s control.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
of a soccer team.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 21, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
and for the same reasons he’s an excellent owner of this nfl team.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
He has not been a good owner. He did not care what was happening. He maybe has made some positive steps now, but it is now almost a decade too late.
He did not care what was happening.
That’s ridiculous.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
“Yeah I don’t really care what happens to my billion dollar investment,” a matter of fact Lerner said. “I mean, it’s not that much money…and I totally held onto this team because I was more bored than anything. I doubt it would have made me any money if I sold it”
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
So if you own a business and that is what this is, and you hire people who run it into the ground, you are a good business owner?
No, but that’s not what you said. You said he doesn’t care.
Caring does not magically transform to winning. The man has every reason—if only financially—to want to see this team succeed.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Caring does not magically transform to winning.
Agreed. And caring does not mean that he is doing a good job either. I don’t doubt the guy cares. I just say he is not good at his job.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 21, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
He hired Mangini and then told Mangini to hire his own boss. Kokinis was not even present at times. Where was Lerner overseeing that? How can you claim he is a great owner that cares when half of his management team was not even showing up at the facility
Where was Lerner overseeing that?
When he fired Kokinis.
How can you claim he is a great owner that cares
I didn’t call him that, I called him an owner that cares.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2011 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
I dont like the way Kokinis was awarded his job. Lerner was not looking for the best candidate as GM at that point, and we had just come off Phil Savage, so it was a double disaster. Just because he fired a GM that was not present all the time and the team was 1-7 doesn’t mean he was overseeing crap. He was way late to that situation Sad thing is I think Mangini got the short end of the stick.
As to your second point, ok I agree you did say he cares, you are correct.
Kokinis was a mess. But most of the time he shuts the hell up, gets the hell out of the way, and cuts as big of a check as anyone needs.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
He was “gawd awful” until he recently realized what you said – he’s NOT a football man (or mind) and had no business making all those hiring decisions that blew up in his face.
I think he accepted that fact and the result was the turn to Holmgren, and a proven football mind.
until he recently realized
this was not a recent revelation. not even remotely.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
Right. The Lerner family has done nothing but try and put the Browns in the best hands possible.
Policy had numerous Super Bowl wins. Butch was in charge of maybe the greatest college football program of all time. Savage and Romeo were billed across the league as top notch hires. Mangini was a brain fart.
Now he has tabbed Holmgren and Heckert.
The Lerners are fantastic owners.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 21, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
I am not questioning their good faith and effort. I am saying that they have not done a good job. Again, for as much crap as people around here talk about Jerry Jones, we would be a lot happier with the results he has gotten in the last decade than what Lerner has gotten.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 21, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
Hes a bad owner cause his hires didn’t pan out, but he is good because he made the best decision possible at the time
by youngergenerationbrownsfan on Nov 21, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
No. He did not make the best possible decision at the time. There were better hires in 2005 than Crennell/Savage. There were better hires than Mangini. There were better decisions than giving up on Mangini in less than a year.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 21, 2011 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
But he gave up mangini for homgrem. I know it is still not sure if that was good, but homgrem has the history to back up that was a good choice.
by youngergenerationbrownsfan on Nov 21, 2011 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
There were better hires in 2005 than Crennell/Savage.
not many.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
OH MY GOD WHAT THE HELL IS THAT ON YOUR AVATAR!?!
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Nov 21, 2011 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It was the only picture i had when i signed up and never changed it. i should do that.
by youngergenerationbrownsfan on Nov 21, 2011 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
No, yours is fine. But Bernie has some hideous m-shaped logo with yellow and navy coloring.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
It’s hate week. Time to shut that fat yahoo up.
Can’t wait for Urban to get here.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 21, 2011 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
Man that will be awesome. So so awesome.
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're only 6 wins away from the post-season.
This game is so fun on thanksgiving weekend. pits the michigan fans in the family vs the OSU fans.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
michigan fans are not family.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Nov 21, 2011 10:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ah, so an anti- logo. I thought for a moment you had lost another bet and I was too afraid to click on it to find out.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I could never risk that.
Some things are sacred.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 21, 2011 11:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
better keep that logo, we will bet you this year!!1 go blue!!
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 22, 2011 1:49 AM EST up reply actions
The dude has a big bank and he is willing to use it to get what he perceives the best football minds in place to run the show.
And that’s the problem. His “perceptions” have been wrong — turning the keys to the franchise over to Botch Davis was not very smart. It was dumb. Say what you want about Carmen Policy but he did have a pretty solid history in football and I am not sure how Butch Davis wins that power struggle after going 7-9 and 9-7, including a complete meltdown in the playoffs (and the 9-7 season was the flukiest and luckiest season I ever remember since I began watching the Browns in the 80s).
Giving the franchise to Phil Savage to get players that Romeo Crennel didn’t want was not smart. It was dumb. The media may have thought those were the best guys other there, but they weren’t. They made a complete and utter mess of the franchise.
Capping it all of is the hiring of Mangini and giving him the franchise (and then firing Kokinis). Whether you think Mangini was good or not, he never really had a chance. He was told to clean out the franchise of Savage’s mess (no draft picks and no players), and to implement a system and he was apparently told he would not be judged immediately on it (which would make sense given that he needed to clean out the mess that was the directionless organization). Then, Lerner changes his mind and hands the keys to the organization to another guy from a completely opposite philosphical background than Mangini before Mangini could even finish one season.
All of these moves add up to poor decisions by the owner. The fact that he is a willing to spend money is great, but it is irrelevant when he overpays for crap.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 21, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
it’s not just his perception, it’s conventional wisdom. every hire was entirely defensible, save for kokinis.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Yes good owners and good businessmen make names for themselves by following Conventional Wisdom. Exactly correct. Especially when the conventional wisdom is told to us by the Press. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates sure were successful by following the CW.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 21, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
I have to agree with TDSH. He is an owner of a buisiness. The product he has sold for the past 10 seasons (2002) through 2011, has had one playoff team and one almost play off team and a 47- 91 record following 2002 playoff season. He was handed the team after his father died in October 2002. His product has not been good. He has changed managers, coaches, personel, everything. Just has failed. He has not always been present either, so although he has not been a miser, he has not been a good owner with knowledge of his business and product. He decisions have yet to produce a winner. Basically he may seem like he is trying, but to this date he has been clueless. Even the best football men he hires under him must know he is watching them and they need to produce. There is no fear, no urgency. So far we have been a joke for a decade with him as an owner.
Hate to say it, but it’s the Rooneys by far in my book.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 21, 2011 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
i agree wholeheartedly.
and they have very little to do with the actual football operations.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
The people of Green Bay.
In all seriousness, I like the way Arthur Blank has gone about turning the Falcons around. Went from a joke of a franchise to the hot trendy team, wrecked by Vick and back up.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 21, 2011 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Home Depot. knows nothing about football.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
Really don’t hate the team as much as I hate the “fans.” If you had daily interaction with them you would realize how much they really suck. Come out of the woodwork when theyre good, non-existant when they are bad. I literally cannot tell you how much this peeves me.
Calvin - "I wonder where we go when we die?"
Hobbes - "...Pittsburgh?"
Calvin - "You mean if we're good or if we're bad?"
by BigDawgGottaEat on Nov 20, 2011 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
To ‘hate,’ you have to care.
I reserve the ‘hate’ for the steelers and ravens. The bengals elicit more of a ‘someone f*ckin farted in the car and it stinks’ expression.
by jonnyphoenix on Nov 20, 2011 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
I’m the biggest detractor….but I would love it if we could put the AFC North away.I mean honestly, if you hate three teams in the league they are?
Dawgs by Nature: Where apparently First Amendment rights are a luxury.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Nov 20, 2011 5:32 PM EST reply actions
5-1 in AFC north play for miracle wild card starts SUNDAY
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
by troy145 on Nov 20, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We would win the AFC North with 5-1. We would have every tiebreaker and need the other 3 teams to get 1 additional loss each. And they have to play each other.
What if...
by Danieldelamaiz on Nov 20, 2011 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
Prediction: this will not happen.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Of course not. Lightning strikes have better odds (and better offense)
What if...
by Danieldelamaiz on Nov 20, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
FLAG GO ROOT FOR BUFFALO
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're about one loss away from Jonestowning ourselves.
by Adrock2099 on Nov 20, 2011 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
incidentally, savage should have been fired on the spot for that. would have saved us a lot of heartache…
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
He was.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 21, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
OK, a few weeks later.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 21, 2011 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
this wasn’t an ugly win. sure, we only scored 14, but our offense was firing on all cylinders throughout the game (except for much of the 1st Q) and our D looked pretty good (except on JAX’s long drive). The only reason the game came down to a shot into the end zone by JAX is because of Phil’s missed (but really made) FG and one back Colt McCoy pass. I’ll take a win like that any day.
That penalty on Taylor was pretty critical.
by mister serious on Nov 20, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not gonna blame Haden on the PI call on that last drive. The refs were calling the ticky-tack BS all game both ways. I don’t think it gets called in most games.
by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 20, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
I sorta blame Haden for that PI (but I have to watch a really choppy, blurry feed, so who knows). Taylor’s encroachment, though, was pretty bad.
by mister serious on Nov 20, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
Haden got the ball. That isn’t interference.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
It was damn close but I feel should have been a no-call .. .
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Nov 20, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
Haden has to learn to stop using his back hand on that play.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 20, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t disagree, because he’s been legitimately flagged this year. But this play was clean.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I agree, but anytime a CB has his hand draped around a guy, officials are more than not going to throw a flag. And the real aggravating thing is, he’s so good, he doesn’t need to do it.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 20, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t disagree. But this play was still clean and what’s more it should have been reviewed and it wasn’t.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
It was a false start! The LG definitely moved. Another call blown by the refs in this game.
The Haden DPI was also NOT interference because he tipped the ball and made the “infraction” after the tip. That should have at least been reviewed and it was not.
I thought the Joe Thomas holding, the lack of holding against JAX, the Marecic fumble, and the non-overturn of the DPI in our favor in the endzone were all bad calls.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Also the holding call against Young was atrocious.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
That one was particularly bad.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 20, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
I was thinking “oh maybe there’s something that’s going to look horrible in slo mo that I missed” but it looked even more clean in the replay.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Yeah I was at the other end of the stadium, so at first I though there might have been some contact. Then they showed the replay. There was a lot of booing.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 20, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
Well, again, internet feed sucks, so I’m not commenting on the correctness of the calls, but I do think that penalty against Taylor was a killer as much as the “missed” field goal.
One of the ramifications of being a bad team playing another bad team is that we don’t get the bad refs. Also, you have no idea how jealous I am of all you that get to watch these games on TV!
by mister serious on Nov 20, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
It was a huge penalty, for sure. But I am adamant that the LG moved.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Dare I even say this, especially since I’m a firm believer that Shurmur is in way over his head, but it would almost look like shurmur is having more faith in his offense and he’s actually starting to adjust to his players strengths. Colt played out of the gun more today than he has all year with pretty decent results. Could it be the offense is finally starting to gel, I would like to think so.
yeah, i hate to admit it, but i’ve been impressed with Murmur’s adjustments in the last few games. His playcalling today was pretty great, playing to his receivers strengths, having faith in guys like Norwood and Ogbannaya, etc.
His best game as coach so far, by far.
I mean it’s the second game in a row it’s looked good to me. 2 games is a trend. But one 2 game trend is hardly enough.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
We had a spectacular 2 game trend last year but it fizzled. I still have confidence in this team though. Next week we’ll see. Paybacks a bitch
I still have confidence in this team though.
erm…
by jonnyphoenix on Nov 20, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
I think 2 is a pattern. 3 will be a trend, but yeah, definitely agree. another game of this will be good.
maybe we can make it 3 td s next week
by SBP on Nov 20, 2011 9:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That move by Norwood today was just sick nasty. I like him and Little out there.
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're about one loss away from Jonestowning ourselves.
He would have scored on that big play if he didn’t stumble. lost his footing a bit.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
Quick aside: That field looked like it had a sand trap in the middle of it today. Lots of loose footing.
Calvin - "I wonder where we go when we die?"
Hobbes - "...Pittsburgh?"
Calvin - "You mean if we're good or if we're bad?"
by BigDawgGottaEat on Nov 20, 2011 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
FIRE THOSE MAINTENANCE ASSHOLES!!
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 7:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That juke was crazy. That was high school stuff.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 20, 2011 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
Welker-lite, baby!
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Well he definitely is, it’s just a question of how “lite”
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
i feel like the only players i ever hear peopel compare to welker are other white players. some guy was doing it about some kid who palyed for A&M the other day. like hillis to alstot.
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
To be fair, Hillis drags people around like Alstot and those biceps are pretty similar.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Let’s all be honest here: I can’t be the only guy who thinks Hillis is on HGH right?
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 20, 2011 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
If I had an even bet on any NFL player being on HGH I would bet that he was.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Does HGH also have the “roid rage” side effect?
by Legoman0721 on Nov 20, 2011 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
No idea.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
As much as I hate to say it, if I had to pick out 2 guys that were on HGH in the NFL it would be Hillis and Clay Matthews.
by Legoman0721 on Nov 20, 2011 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
No. James Harrison.
In Golan we trust.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 20, 2011 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
HGH is just a synthetic version of a hormone your body makes naturally. IGF-1 is a byproduct in the line somewhere that has similar effects, and will probably be the next big PED unless people just lump it in with HGH.
Funny thing though, “roid rage” is not scientifically proven at all, and there is little substantial evidence to suggest the steroids cause direct emotional damage (tho most people using them have some sort of mental defect to begin with hence needing to take steroids to get bigger, stronger etc.).
I am so tired, my mind added an I in HGH
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
“Roid rage” is a myth. If you’re an asshole before you take steroids, you’ll be an asshole while you’re taking steroids.
by Monsters of the Midway on Nov 21, 2011 9:14 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I got into an argument on here with someone about the use of PEDs in the NFL and he was one of the first guys I brought up.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2011 9:17 AM EST up reply actions
PEDs are rampant in the nfl. humans aren’t meant to be that big and that fast at the same time. i find it very interesting that football gets a total free pass on PEDs, though, while baseball players have to go in front of congress (and lie).
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah for real. People get their four game suspension and then fans treat them like nothing happened.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
People don’t care about numbers and history in the NFL.
The game of football has changed sooo very much over even the past 10 years. Records get smashed and no one cares.
Not the same in baseball. Not saying it’s right, but I think that’s why.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 21, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
That’s why, but I also think baseball has changed incredibly from era to era. I mean, how can you count any pitching records for guys who got to pitch off of a higher mound? That’s just one example.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, there are “live ball” and “dead ball” eras identified in baseball history. you’re telling me that’s not a change in the game from one generation to another?
it’s definitely got to do with the statistics, as bernie says, but that’s a horrible reason. why are sacrosanct numbers in baseball a reason to raise hell over PEDs, but potential paralysis of players getting hit by PED’ed other players is overlooked?
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
Eddie Royal is the black Welker.
by Uwe Blog on Nov 21, 2011 3:06 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don’t see why hygiene is important here.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
5 division games in 6 weeks. Let’s do this.
by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 20, 2011 5:48 PM EST reply actions
One thing that truly PISSED me off was when we accepted that unsportsmanlike penalty on the field goal. When it’s a tie game, you NEVER EVER EVER EVER take points off the board!! I don’t care how well we were moving the ball. That was just a bad coaching decision. And after McCoy threw the INT a few plays later, I screamed out "F U SHURMUR!".
Is this serious? You wouldn’t take a new set of downs within the 15 over 3 points? Really?
by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 20, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
If you’re losing, sure. But not when it’s a tie game. Take the 3 points.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
So funny because if we didn’t take the penalty there would be a hundred people on here bitching about settling for a FG.
I agree, the rule is don’t take the points off the board, though in that situation I figure you take the ball and run some safe plays and you still get 3 at a minimum but who would have thought Colt could throw an INT in the red zone. That couldn’t even happen.
That FG, plus the non call puts the game out of reach for the Jags.
But that’s the point. Anything could happen and anything did.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
That makes no sense at all. You obviously don’t get it.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly. Even if we scored a TD I would still be mad at Shurmur’s decision.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
As long as you weren’t one of the people criticizing him for being conservative down in the red zone against the Rams, I am ok with this. But you can see how if we had lost people would hammer him for being conservative last game and then too aggressive this game.
I heard the “points off the board” cliché going through my head when this happened and remember thinking “with our luck, we’ll find a way to score 0 or less down here.”
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I was not in the "take the endzone shot" clan from the Rams game. I was fine running to kill the clock and get 3.
It’s common sense. You do not take points off the board in super tight games like this.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
I’m fine with a conservative critique, I’m just saying as coach you are damned if you do, damned if you don’t, and then you are damned again in the media when you say “that’s just the way I do it.”
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I’m an ex-coach and you definitely have the knowledge to be a coach yourself. Screw what the fans or media thinks. What would you do in that situation? I already said what I’d do.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
Me, I’m a fan of the aggressive play calling. I would make the same call as Shurmur every time, which is something I haven’t said all year. We’d been moving the ball well, Colt looked good, Obi was gaining decent yards. I’m fine with him making that call. Definitely Shurmur’s best coached game of the year.
Anyone else starting to feel like Randy Quaid?
JK, I know what you mean. It’s just the wrong call in my eyes.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
I see where you coming from too. I guess I was just excited to finally see Shurmur do something aggressive.
I believe in battling for genuine progress.
It was definitely aggressive, no doubt. You guys have been calling for it and you got your wish. But I guaranty you it won’t happen again.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
I was surprised that Shurmur took the points off the board, but I think it was the right call and I hope he continues with that sort of aggressiveness.
You were surprised that Shurmur took points off the board, and you think it was the right call? That is stupid. The outcome of that call shows it was the wrong move. Take the 3 points in a tie game.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
Indeed. I criticized him last week for being too conservative and it burned us. I support him this week for being aggressive even though it burned us. I’m a fan of being aggressive and going all-out to win, and I’ll support the right decision whether it pays off or not.
Last week, it was asked what would’ve happened if we had thrown the ball at the end and turned it over. I said I would’ve been supportive of an aggressive decision, because it’s the best decision for the team. I think Shurmur made the right call and I’ll support that.
Oh my f*cking god. You people have never coached a down in your life and you’re trying to tell me what the right call was?
YOU TAKE THE 3 FUCKING POINTS!!!
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry, sorry. This shit is starting to get to me. Shurmur screwed up and it could have lost the game.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
By the way I respect your opinion and your coaching experience, but I like aggressiveness. That may be because I don’t have the experience you do, but I didn’t like the wind down to last week’s missed field goal and did like going for the touchdown this game.
Thanks. I’m not trying to be a dick, but it is what I would do. And I feel strongly about it. Taking the 3 is the correct call. That’s all I’m saying. If we scored, then hells yeah. But the worst case scenario happened. You never take away 3 points in a tie game.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
I understand what you’re saying about not wanting to take 3 points off the board. But, our goal there was to get a first down and continue the drive in an effort to score a TD. So, when we are offered the chance at a first down and continue the drive as opposed to the field goal I think the big majority of coaches in the league would have done the same thing.
It is tough to take away 3, but I still would have went through with it. Of course, I would have decided all this well before the game what to do.
Make the decisions in the comfort of your office, and then be ready to weigh the circumstances of the game against the choices you’ve already made.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
There was still a lot of time left in the game. We had to take the downs. No question about it.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 20, 2011 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
If we scored, then hells yeah.
that’s not how it works. the decision is an independent entity.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
Who cares if I’ve ever coached a down or not? I prefer aggressiveness over being too scared to throw the ball into the end zone. There are lots of actual coaches that just might agree, so don’t act like your “coaching experience” is the be-all and end-all of football decision making.
I care. You don’t know how to run a team. You thought trying to kill the clock and kick a field goal last week was wrong.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
And I stand by that opinion. If I was a coach, I’m certain I would do exactly what Shurmur did today.
You don’t get it. These moves get HCs fired.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
They do, but ones that actually make football sense to do (going on 4th and short, for example, and in past eras throwing more) also get coaches fired, and they are statistically the correct decisions.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I said last week that I think coaches in general are too conservative because they’re afraid to take the responsibility and risk getting fired. I’d rather see a guy make the call that gives us the best chance to win whether it hurts his job security or not.
Mike Smith’s decision last week is precisely the type of decision I wish we saw more of.
I’m all for being aggressive if the situation calls for it, but Mike Smith was a complete idiot. Got to be smarter there.
No way do you go for that.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 21, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
The choice between punting to Drew Brees and going for it with your enormous back on 4th and notverymuch is a pretty tough one. I don’t think it was that bad a decision.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
No, I am considering precisely that. Brees is probably going to score on you, meaning you are probably going to lose if you give it to him.
NFL teams do not go for it on 4th enough.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
NFL teams do not go for it on 4th enough.
i agree with you. and i don’t think mike smith should have considered going for that one.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
Even if he gets the first down, they still had to go 30-40 yards for a FG chance of their own.
This wasn’t like BB against Indy where a first down wins the game. The downside was too great and the gain was minimal.
At some point in time you got to trust your defense to get a stop.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 21, 2011 8:41 PM EST up reply actions
going by Advanced NFL Stats’ metrics, on 4th and 1 from the 29, they say go for it. This doesn’t take into account that turner is a beast in short yardage, Brees could easily lead a good drive, and the Saints D is 32nd in the league in ypc.
I don’t think it was a particularly great call, nor was it awful. Smith was aggressive and happened to also play the percentages, but he lost.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I don’t care what the metrics say. You don’t get it, it’s ballgame. You get it, you still have to go 30-40 yards.
What’s the upside?
I don’t think it was a particularly great call, nor was it awful.
Out on a limb there aren’t ya?
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 21, 2011 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
at least w/ the belichick play, the colts had to go score a td, which was one iota (but just one) in doubt.
you don’t get this first down in the NO/ATL game, the game is done. period. FG kickers are auto from that range.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
Right, if the Pats had gotten that yard, the game was over. The upside was huge.
That wasn’t the case with the Falcons. It was actually the complete opposite.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 21, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
I would have went for it, and I would have told the media to eff off. This is (part of the reason) I don’t get to be an NFL HC.
If the metrics gave me any sort of chance to be aggressive there, I would have.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
If you’re going to go for it, you better have that F-U.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 21, 2011 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
My F-U is always ready.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Nov 22, 2011 2:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Out on a limb there aren’t ya?
I really don’t have a strong opinion either way. I do feel like HCs aren’t aggressive enough on 4th downs and the numbers say that when you have a guy like Turner, its a smart move. However, if you don’t get it its game, but imo if you punt it, its probably also game.
This is why I couldn’t be an NFL HC. I dunno what I would do in that situation.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
The outcome of that call shows it was the wrong move.
This is where I disagree. You play the odds and you play to the philosophy and strengths of your team. Reggie Miller misses free throws sometimes.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
That seems like an odd player to worship.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 20, 2011 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
This is why coaches play conservative. If the players screw up, they get blamed. Losing those 3 points is on Colt, because he forced a throw. If he throws it away or even takes a sack, it’s still a chip shot field goal. Shu made the right call, but he can’t execute the plays.
What if...
by Danieldelamaiz on Nov 20, 2011 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
I would take the penalty, pack the line and throw fades/slants. Lowish risk throws with a real shot to score, though not a very good chance. Maybe give Colt the option for a FB dive if they decide to put 2 out on Little/Cribbs/Moore.
If we have Hillis I am lining up and running 3 times, probably at least once from shotgun and/or with a blocking pattern we don’t show much on film.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
the question is who is the fb on said dive?
by SBP on Nov 20, 2011 9:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Disagree 100%.
You take the first down.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 20, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
NO YOU DON’T. Colt’s INT proves why you take the 3 points in that scenario. It’s flat out ridiculous to think otherwise.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 21, 2011 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
One isolated play can’t determine the best plan for any scenario.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Nov 21, 2011 1:59 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
This. Surprisingly, I read this on Yahoo!, but it’s about looking at the play you called regardless of the outcome. If Colt gets a TD there, then it’s a great decision. He got an INT, so it was a “bad” decision.
Sammy Watkins for Heisman
Right. I think BY believes it’s a bad decision because of the potential for the INT there, not just because we happened to throw an INT there. But I also don’t think that’s what he’s saying right now, so I am a little confused.
But yeah, if you do a study of all the times NFL teams took points off the board and they got effed 75+% of the time, then I can see the results becoming meaningful (despite what would have to be a SSS).
But you can’t use hindsight to evaluate individual decisions.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
It’s a no-brainer. Not taking it would show zero faith in your football team and would show why you should be fired immediately.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 21, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Colt’s INT proves why you take the 3 points in that scenario
No, it really doesn’t. When Drew Brees throws an interception on 3rd down in his own territory, it does not mean that the smart play would have been a quick kick, even though in retrospect a quick kick would have been better for the team.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 21, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
And if Colt threw a TD it would have been the right decision?
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 21, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
As TJ and MJD both went to the same HS (De La Salle in NorCal- MJD was just Maurice Drew then) it would have been nice to see those dudes collide a few times . . .
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Nov 20, 2011 5:53 PM EST reply actions
Right after college, I covered HS football for the Oakland Tribune and did a few DLS games . . . DJ Williams was the baddest Spartan
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Nov 20, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
He was SIC at running back. I saw him a few times.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
Keepin’ it strictly business.
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're about one loss away from Jonestowning ourselves.
need to get a “handshakes” t-shirt. I’m sure somebody has made one somewhere.
"One isolated play can’t determine the best plan for any scenario."-rufio
by Gabe Durrant on Nov 21, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
Might have already been pointed out but Joe Haden had a tough game today. Jason Hill (another NorCal guy-Sacred Heart in SF) was the Jags go to WR
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Nov 20, 2011 6:00 PM EST reply actions
Man, you’re just pluggin’ the Bay today. haha
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know, he let one or two in that he shouldn’t have but I thought he played ok. My expectations for Haden are really high, though.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
For a mortal CB, it would have been a good game. For Haden, subpar, He dropped one pick that may have been 6. Speaking of which, CATCH THE BALL SHELDON BROWN!!!
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Nov 20, 2011 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
Oh yeah, we definitely needed to catch those two. Haden even had a shot at the one toeing the sideline. Needs to capitalize, for sure.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
i don’t like posting fantasy talk here (mostly b/c no one else cares about anyone else’s fantasy team), but i started the browns’ d this week, expecting gabbert to turn the ball over multiple times. when i read about the 2 dropped picks and should-have-been pick 6 … i was devastated.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
From listening to the radio, it sounds like our defense let a few big plays like that get away from us. I wonder why Haden can’t seem to haul one of those in this year.
He’s dropped what.. like 7 INTs this year? Dude needs to hit the Jug hard.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
for as pretty-well as the defense has played this year, they’ve really done nada on the forcing turnovers front.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
2 weeks in a row Haden droped a sure pick. Last week he would have saved the game. They need to get him in front of the JUGS machine.
did he guard Jason Hill all day or did he cover mike Thomas some?
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I thought he stayed on his (defense’s left) side. I might be wrong.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
H was on the right some. I think he was on Hill most of the time. But I have no way of going back to check.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
Jason Hill, IMO, is their best WR. I noticed him when the Jags played Baltimore. Haden and Brown should have had their picks, but Hill is developing into a legit, albeit unknown, WR.
by chitown browns fan on Nov 21, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
#Browns WR Greg Little (@Str8UpGlittle) is leading all #NFL rookies with 42 receptions this season
Too bad he still doesn’t have a bloody touchdown.
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're about one loss away from Jonestowning ourselves.
Is it time to update your sig? Today might have bought us an extra week.
by mister serious on Nov 20, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, barring a incredibly depressing blowout loss to the Steelers, I think we’re in the clear when it comes to grape drink based mass suicide.
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're about one loss away from Jonestowning ourselves.
And murdering a Congressman. Don’t think we’re quite there yet.
by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 20, 2011 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
That’s right – I forgot about that guy.
by mister serious on Nov 20, 2011 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
If it was fruit punch I would already be toes up….
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 20, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
He’s one of only three starting rookies in the NFL this year.
The other two can’t stay healthy.
Despite that, he’s amongst the bottom of the league in average and YAC, and I’m willing to bet he’s leading rookies in drops also. People are searching too hard to find a savior in table scraps.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Nov 20, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
For a guy who’s only in his 2nd year as WR, I think he’s showing some definite potential. Genuine Progress.
Anyone else starting to feel like Randy Quaid?
Potential? He looks like exactly what he is, a RB playing WR.
He’s stiff, can’t run routes, dropping passes, can’t get separation.
He has shown absolutely nothing that indicates he can be a traditional WR. Unless you count garbage time yards on crossing routes effective.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Nov 20, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, he’s so awful that he’s 4 catches behind highly-regarded rookie AJ Green. His 11 catches in the past two games must all be “garbage time crossing routes”, huh?
Highly regarded rookie AJ Green has 5 more yards to his average, 6 more TD’s 200 more yards and less drops. All with a rookie QB. And he actually looks like a WR on the field.
And you’re seriously bragging about 11 catches in two games? Especially considering the fact that’s he’s runs dump off routes?
by The Licensed Pessimist on Nov 20, 2011 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
You said that nothing indicates he can be a traditional WR unless we count garbage time crossing routes. His 11 catches in the last 2 games have not been garbage time at all, and have been a big part of the offense. Yeah, Green is better, but Little is doing a decent job as well. He isn’t “showing absolutely nothing”.
I just don’t understand why people are getting excited for average production. Why are our standards so damn low that when we get a body(not even gonna call him a WR) who has production that would be consistent with a #3 WR on a good team, everyone has an orgasm.
I could care less if he continues to accumilate average yards and catches 1 deep pass every 9 games. When it boils down to it he still has no acceleration, he drops passes left and right, he’s stiff and he doesn’t have the shiftiness to run routes. And without those things, he’s not going to help this offense be any more than average.
That’s not something I can get excited over.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Nov 20, 2011 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
Well I get excited about it because I like having orgasms. Also, I think we got an extra first round pick and a decent WR with a high ceiling, which I think is a pretty good deal and worth getting excited about.
by BiggieBrown on Nov 20, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m excited for his potential. He’s still learning the position, and if he continues to put up decent numbers while he develops I’m happy with that. You can’t always find a ready-to-go deep threat like AJ Green, sometimes you have to make them yourselves, and I’m patient enough to let that happen without getting all pissy that he’s not an All-Pro immediately.
Why do you never get excited over signs of progress with this team, yet you still apparently are a fan of it?
And why do you insist on straw-manning people into the position that we think every positive sign means we’ve got a pro bowler? It’s not like anyone is saying Little is Calvin Johnson, just that he’s doing pretty good.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
he’s NOT doing good, that’s the problem. He hasn’t shown any progression in his skills from the first game at all. If you throw towards someone, regardless of his skill level he’s going to get numbers. Especially if what he does is simple like shallow cross routes and dump offs.
It’s usually the same story with anyone the Browns acquires; a player does something exciting yet useless to his overall responsibilities in which the fans get excited. Then they start justifying the players shortcomings which severely impeded their effectiveness. i.e. Ward hits some people hard in the pre-season, so lets pretend that we don’t see him being torched by TE’s. Little runs over people when he does actually catch the ball, so lets pretend as if he doesn’t drop a ridiculous amount of passes and that we don’t see his inability to move like a WR in the second. Let’s pretend that Sheard and Taylor don’t only do damage against rookies and horrible competition.
Sorry Rufio but after so many years as a fan of Cleveland sports I’m just tired of seeing mediocrity celebrated. I’m not going to lower the bar that low regardless of how bad we are.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Nov 21, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
No one is celebrating. You aren’t arguing with anyone.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
so lets pretend as if he doesn’t drop a ridiculous amount of passes
…
Drops are definitely a problem
Little “moves like a WR” just fine. It might not look the way you want but he’s getting open. And I’m sorry but I care more about him getting open then your visual pleasure from watching him.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Wasn’t one of those catches last week a deep ball? And I know at least three of his routes today were past ten yards.
I don’t mind your opinion, but let’s keep it factual.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 20, 2011 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
One pass out of 42 one the year have been a deep ball. Now considering the fact that every other time throughout the year deep balls thrown to him have been intercepted or incompletions, being “factual”, what would that be in your eyes; an aberration or the norm?
Being “factual”, his statistics are at the bottom of the league across the board. But certain facts aren’t relevant with brown colored glasses are they?
by The Licensed Pessimist on Nov 20, 2011 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
Greg Little has a higher average than Hines Ward and the same average as Percy Harvin, so obviously that’s a big indicator that he sucks.
I believe in battling for genuine progress.
He has as many INT’s thrown his way as deep ball catches. I would consider that an indication that he sucks.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Nov 20, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
I would consider it an indication of a young player and a stumbling offense.
I believe in battling for genuine progress.
really? so he sucks because Colt was dumb enough to throw into double coverage?
If we were talking colt, I bet you’d talk about that play and how awful Colt is and point out throwing it into double coverage. If not, that would just be a stupid argument.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
did you actually watch the deep balls he was thrown? A lot of them were crap. You are really going to hold against him a deep ball he didn’t catch because Colt through into double coverage?
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
rufio told me I don’t have to talk to you.
by BiggieBrown on Nov 20, 2011 7:34 PM EST up reply actions 16 recs
This might be my favorite post of the year.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
Drops are definitely a problem but Little is a beast after the catch. And he won’t average as many Y/C as other receivers because Green and Jones play in more vertical offenses Y/C doesn’t really mean much to me. Total yardage is not as high for Little, which shows that he is not as good as Green or Jones which shouldn’t surprise anyone.
But you said it yourself, Little is one of three starting rookies at his position. And I know, the rest of our WRs are not good but there are other teams out there with plenty of room for improvement at at least one starting spot.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
So this is what you are going to shit all over today?
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 20, 2011 9:45 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
I think this one made me laugh the hardest.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Nov 21, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
I would just like to point out that we STILL have yet to score a TD in the 1st or 3rd quarters. This box score just made me depressed and amused at the same time.
"Tracers work both ways" ~US Army Ordnance
Yes. They still suck. That is true. But for at least this week…they suck a bit less.
by jonnyphoenix on Nov 20, 2011 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
Wow. I wonder if there’s something in the players’ physical preparations that has them peaking late in games after starting slowly. When I wrestled in high school I always wrestled better later in the day and later in matches. After I figured that out I started warming up earlier and simulating matches to get fully warmed up and get the nerves out before my actual matches and I did better. This is totally just hypothetical, but there could be something about how the Browns practice that leads to slow starts and hot finishes.
I think it has more to do with the fact that we’ve scored a lot of meaningless touchdowns
I believe in battling for genuine progress.
Cutler made a great play when he has nothing, then there are times guys are wide open and he looks horrible
AND we lost the coin toss again today . . .
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Nov 20, 2011 6:13 PM EST reply actions
FIRE SHURMUR IMMEDIATELY
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're about one loss away from Jonestowning ourselves.
FIRE HOLMGREN, FIRE LERNER, SEE YOU IN THE MENS ROOM.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Nov 20, 2011 9:22 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Did anyone else find it a bit odd that Jax didn’t call a time out immediately after getting that final first down? They waited unti there were only 8 seconds left. I thought that was kind of bad clock management.
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're about one loss away from Jonestowning ourselves.
espeically because they didn’t run the ball. I thought it was smart if they wanted to try and run it in once then call it, but they passed twice – del rio sucks
they passed because it gave them two plays instead of one.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 20, 2011 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
I understand the first couple passes. I just don’t understand why they didn’t run the last play of the game?
Or if you’re gonna pass like they did, dump it out to MJD one-on-one against Fujita in the flat.
by chitown browns fan on Nov 21, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
MJD looked pissed that he didn’t get the ball there.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 21, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
i think gabbert missed mjd in the flat, i saw him(mjd) running that way, but he went out of the picture. the announcers said he was open. then they showed a shot of mjd having words with gabbert. who knows
Fujita was actually covering MJD and guarding the goal line but that would have had to have been a nice open field tackle.
your guess is as good as mine. Maybe they thought they could catch us overplaying the run.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 20, 2011 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that’s gotta be the only consideration. However, even if I thought that, I would have still given the ball to my best player when I needed a yard to win the game.
MaybeDel Rio is a terrible coach.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Shumur, on asked if he was surprised that Jacksonville didn’t call a timeout: “No, nothing surprises me.”
Sammy Watkins for Heisman
Haha best response all year.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2011 9:24 AM EST up reply actions
FIRE SHURMUR
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Nov 20, 2011 9:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Totally agree. You use the timeout, have 30-some-odd seconds, and give yourself 4 shots at the endzone.
Almost as bad as Oregon running out of time last night with timeouts in their pocket.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 20, 2011 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
Jack Del Rio may have been outcoached by a rookie who hasn’t impressed so far. That’s sad.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Well, Jack Del Rio is kind of a moron.
by Off-the-Chain on Nov 21, 2011 12:14 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The leather jacket almost makes him look super creepy.
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're only 6 wins away from the post-season.
Or like an extra from “Mystic River.”
by Off-the-Chain on Nov 21, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
My GF was creeped out all game.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
it’s becoming more obvious every week.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Four team parlay today: Oak +1, Browns under 35, NYG -4 AND, wait for it, wait for it . . .Titans +7. DAMN. ATL looking good
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Nov 20, 2011 6:19 PM EST reply actions
Why the hell would you take TENN to cover that?
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
There’s a reason why they call it “dope”.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
We don’t know about the Giants yet, but he lost already.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
Good luck! Nothing like a good 4 game parley.
by HenryDawg on Nov 20, 2011 6:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Parleys are hard a shit for some reason. I’ve only won twice in my life. 5 game NHL, and a 6 game NFL.
The Browns tie with the Falcons a while back won it for me.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
parlays are a lot of fun, but they are the sucker’s bet of all time. casinos love the parlay.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
SEE HOW WE ALL GET ALONG WHEN THE BROWNS WIN!!!
It is obviously the teams fault when we all argue amongst ourselves!
I doubt it’s anything serious. He wouldn’t be running around after the game with his arms up if it was hurting him.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
New Subject Line-- Playoffs
Do you realize if it were not for TWO friggin plays this year we would be currently holding the 6th playoff position in the AFC. If not for the disorganized mess against Cincinnati in the first game that lead to that no one covering A.J. Green touchdown and the damn missed field goal against the Rams. We would be 6-4 and be ahead of Cincinnati based on head to head so far. This assumes Atlanta hold on and beats Tennessee today
This team is not a good football team but it shows you how much a couple plays make.
I’d rather not kill myself thinking about it.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
I wasn’t expecting playoffs and I’m still not expecting playoffs. Not even next year. But yes, the NFL is a parity-ridden league.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Just sucks, I dont think we are a playoff team but at least this fall would be a little more exciting if we were 6-4 right now and it was really only two plays
very different story than the 2 plays champ’s talking about.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
Damn. How about that fight in the Niners/Cards game?
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Nov 20, 2011 6:52 PM EST reply actions
Early Doucet starts a fight with Dashawn Golston (sp) and Golston throws like 5 FIERCE punches
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Nov 20, 2011 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
Nevermind, the last two minutes of this game have been incredibly interesting. What was Chicago/Rivers thinking.
Anyone else starting to feel like Randy Quaid?
Rivers is making a lot of boneheaded throws lately. It has to be infuriating for Chargers fans this year.
You think? The people here are pissed. Turner is getting most of the heat though.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
It should be whoever hired Turner. He is a good coordinator but not a very good HC. Especially if you’re going to fire Marty to get him.
I don’t know the Chargers haven’t exactly been a bad team since he’s been there.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
Marty was better with us. His career was downhill from there — a great regular season coach who never did squat in the playoffs and had an unreal love for the prevent defense.
Also, Elvis Grbac was his starting quarterback and starting quarterbacks don’t lose their jobs to injuries. So, even though Rich Gannon was playing lights out for half a season and lead his team to a number 1 seed in the playoffs, Grbac gets to start the first playoff game. And the team lost. One of the most astoundingly stupid decisions in a history of stupid decisions by Marty. See also prevent defense and the Drive. UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 21, 2011 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
Marty made the players better players. His problem was he played by the motto don’t take chances, and lose the game , make them beat you. And John Elway did. If not for John Elway, Marty Schottenheimer would have been mentioned up there in the coaching ranks as a Bill Cowher, Holmgren, and Dungy. Marty was a great coach of players and how to play the game, just was way too conservative when he had the talent to play more aggressive and win games in the playofffs. As far a coach of players, you may have not seen a better coach in 20 years (besides Bill Belichik)
That would be Spanos. He isn’t liked either.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 21, 2011 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
And AJ Smith is worse than Spanos even; the Lord of no Rings.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 21, 2011 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
AJ Smith is a dick. I can’t imagine anyone wanting to work with him (probably the reason they were stuck with Norv).
Hey Rivers, nice throw away at the end of the game. Worst. Day. Ever.
What a knob.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 21, 2011 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
that last INT was inexcusable and he knows it
by SBP on Nov 20, 2011 9:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think something may be wrong with Rivers physically. All of a sudden, after years of efficient passing, he can’t make the throws? Odd.
by chitown browns fan on Nov 21, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
Looks like they will. Too bad they couldn’t come through and win though.
I believe in battling for genuine progress.
Falcons loss would would be good. But if LFDM can get his Parley, all the power to him.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
Man, you just stole a bit of my sunshine…. but you are right.
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Nov 20, 2011 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
Hell yes. I am pleased without a doubt. Go Jints!
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Nov 20, 2011 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
Just $10. We live in what kinda is/use to be a big Italian neighborhood in Brooklyn. So naturally our butcher offered to take our bets.
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Nov 20, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
A dime is totally reasonable. But when you hit, buy your girl some flowers.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
My wife does her own card. She loves betting. Couldn’t get her to watch football before I introduced her to ye olde parlay card. Now, she’s emailing me on Friday afternoons with what matchups she likes and why. Love that Long Island girl.
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Nov 21, 2011 9:24 AM EST up reply actions
If Colt would improve his checkdown ratio(meaning dropping it) he would be a decent QB. It is all about seeing the field and throwing the ball into the spot. A confidence and swagger that can be hard to develope. He has made a little stride the last 2 weeks, but the competition speaks for itself. Now we enter divison play, Colt continuing to improve that ratio is key. His career as a starter depends on it. You beat the Steelers twice, he will win alot of converts.
The Browns defense plays good at times, but is lacking talent. Considering the overhaul of philosophy, we probably are about where we should be.
Gabbert has some kind of arm. Stronger than DA’s. Basically a modern Jeff George. Ever learns how to harness it, could be a HoFer.
Considering the overhaul of philosophy, we probably are about where we should be.
Then why are you always bitching? This year was meant for future building. You people needs to stop complaining.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
Gabbert looked like he was about to crap his pants every time Sheard came around the corner. He won’t be in the league in 3 years.
I believe in battling for genuine progress.
I wouldn’t go that far. Gabbert looked good for a rook. He has the size and the arm strength to be decent. We just have to wait and see.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
He has the physical skills, but I don’t think he’s capable of playing at a pro-level mentally.
I believe in battling for genuine progress.
Yeah, physical ability isn’t anywhere near as rare as talent/skill/mental ability. I’m not down to sell Gabbert down the river due to his inexplicably low amount of INTs, but it didn’t impress today.
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
He should have have two picks today, I think his low INT number has more to do with luck than skill.
I believe in battling for genuine progress.
That is my understanding.
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're only 6 wins away from the post-season.
by Adrock2099 on Nov 20, 2011 11:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If Colt would improve his checkdown ratio(meaning dropping it)
wait…he shouldn’t do ANY checkdowns? Yes, Peyton, Brady, and Rodgers never in their lives have thrown a checkdown pass.
He has made a little stride the last 2 weeks
I am still not sure if you are watching the same games as everyone else. just a tip, the Browns have the orange helmets with no logo.
but the competition speaks for itself.
this might shock you, but jacksonville has a good pass D. coming in, were 5th in net ypa vs the pass. And if you maybe think “oh, they faced shitty QBs”, they are 6th in Football Outsiders’ rankings adjusted to strength of schedule.
could be a HoFer.
really? You need more than an arm to be a HOFer. The fact that Colt had a solid game against an excellent passing D and Gabbert still looks like a crappy rookie makes me think you will never get Colt credit when it’s deserved.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
by bross09 on Nov 20, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Basically a modern Jeff George.
I am pretty sure that Jeff George was the modern Jeff George.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 21, 2011 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
I think someone may have mentioned it up the thread somewhere, but I want to see more of Norwood. He seems like an excellent slot receiver, as Mike Mayock would say, “quicker than fast” with good hands. We need someone who might not be able to out run people down field, but can use his quickness to separate for short passes and make people miss.
Awesome juke, my favorite play so far this year.
Imagine this WR Corps: Alshon Jeffries, MoMass, Jordan Norwood, Josh Cribss, G Little.
Bring in a solid RT, get Steinbech healthy and block like we did (no matter who is in at RB) I think we could succeed with that. Then we could honestly judge where Colt is at.
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
Is Jefferies the USC WR? I havn’t been able to follow college football closely this year, other than ND. Michael Floyd looks pretty awesome. Big and tall, and if he run’s a decent forty I think he could do really well in the NFL.
Alshon Jeffrey* from South Carolina USC, not SoCal USC… if thats what you meant. I think we could maybe even get Jeffrey with the Falcon’s pick as his stock has been sliding.
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
Maybe trade down from our spot 4 or 5 spots for another 2nd or 3rd?
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
I think its a toss up as to who will be better in the bigs. Jeffrey is more physical and better at fighting off defenders IMO, plus I love that he’s competed against more future NFL guys than I suspect Blackmon has.
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
Yeah, Blackmon is just faster and runs better routes right now. It’s actually a lot like last years discussion about Green and Jones.
I dont think Jeffrey has the injury/drop liabilities that Jones had, does he? Also, if Jeffrey could get us two more 1st rounders like Julio did, I wouldnt hate that.
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
I think that’s been clear for a while.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Maybe. I just think at the beginning of the year there were a lot of people talking about the size and strength of Jeffery and if he could get a little better at route running maybe he could leapfrog Blackmon. Obviously, that hasn’t happened.
I think Jeffery will have to improve his short area burst to be as good as Blackmon. He’s tall and he can go way up and get it. But Blackmon is just…really really good. At least in their current contexts.
Jeffery reminds me a little of Baldwin from this year’s draft, but a little better with those incredible catches.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Speaking of SoCal, is Woods eligible?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
he’s the best WR in college football, if you ask me.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
I find it funny that you Ohio people are that pissed about it. I just laughed.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
To be honest I didn’t getting at first. I was thinking why did MJD just mix up some cookies than throw them in the air?
The only time you’ll ever see the Los Ang— uh—Jacksonville jaguars ever make the front page.
by jonnyphoenix on Nov 20, 2011 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
The Jaguars are locked into
a stadium lease through 2027, I believe. It would basically take a judge giving them permission to leave based on stadium disrepair or three consecutive years of financial loss. Neither of those is happening.
better tell that to the NFL so they take the ‘for sale cheap best offer’ sign off the front lawn.
by jonnyphoenix on Nov 21, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
tell you another thing… I watched this game in tallhassee with a bunch of jags fans. they DO NOT like being called the Los Angeles Jaguars. Their best smack was in response to my JT jersey, “We dont wear our linemen’s jerseys” … but at the end of the day, our glory days are Joe Brown and championships. Theirs are Mark Brunell and actually having people show up to their games.
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
Their best smack was in response to my JT jersey
They’re probably all dead now.
Sammy Watkins for Heisman
by emily522 on Nov 20, 2011 8:31 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
when i said, “their best smack,” I wasnt referring to their trash talk. I meant the sound I heard when JT pancaked them mercilessly.
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
by troy145 on Nov 20, 2011 8:34 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Joe Brown? Judge Joe Brown?
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
by Dawg Nuts on Nov 20, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Glad you took care of the required Judge Joe Brown reference here, Dawg Nuts.
by Off-the-Chain on Nov 21, 2011 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
So are we for or against Cleveland former finest netball player?
....just need a guy called Byner to play RT...
….against….
any decent human should be automatically set to be against anything from miami, much less lebron
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
I never liked him in the first place. giant ego with nothing to back it up (he may or may not have talent, but I’ve never seen it)
by Mr. Bad Example on Nov 20, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
As much of a douche as he is, the guy is an athletic freak of nature. Watching him play in Cleveland was a really fun time because I got to cheer for a home-town kid as well as a world-class athlete.
He made the decision based on the fact that he was sick of calling Delonte
West dad
by RyanBr on Nov 20, 2011 9:18 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
I love this.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2011 9:28 AM EST up reply actions
As evidenced but that stunning performance in the finals. Also, by teaming up with melo and bosh to remove just about all fan support of the players.
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're only 6 wins away from the post-season.
by Adrock2099 on Nov 20, 2011 11:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I didn’t know Kevin Spacey was that old.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 21, 2011 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
I like JFK in the background. He’s like “hey man, it’s ok. It’s ok.”
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're only 6 wins away from the post-season.
Haha, yeah, its a pretty entertaining picture.
by Off-the-Chain on Nov 21, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Found a bar to catch the game live. The locals- who seem to veer toward the Packers if anything- were interested to find a Browns fan in their midst. Almost as if they hadn’t seen one before.
I liked McCoy a lot.
WIN WIN WIN!
....just need a guy called Byner to play RT...
There is a group of local Packer fans in London? That would be like finding a group of random Sunderland fans in North Dakota.
How about Tottenham vs Lerner’s other toys today? COYS!
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Nov 21, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Shoot. I am leaving the office for a “meeting” and going to a pub to watch live!
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Nov 21, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
TONY STEWART….soo good after PSU and Syracuse allegations. Everything is falling down except my fourth favorite sport. Woo Hoo
Dawgs by Nature: Where apparently First Amendment rights are a luxury.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Nov 20, 2011 8:26 PM EST reply actions
Something not getting touched on: Colt had 6 different WRs with multiple receptions today, 7 dif Wrs total. He’s finding the open guy.
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
I thought he missed 2 open guys in the endnone and forced it for an inc. And I though he ran early once. But overall I really, really liked his play.
....just need a guy called Byner to play RT...
Youre, right he didn’t play perfectly. He’s not Aron Rodgers. But 17 completions to 7 guys says a lot more than one or two plays that fell for incompletions.
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
As a backup in this league for another 11 or so years.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Nov 21, 2011 5:37 AM EST up reply actions
Unless they find a phenom in the low rounds, or his arm falls off (and then marries a playmate, etc., etc.) I think he’ll be the QB next year.
And if the front office upgrades the offense next year like they did the defense this year, we’ll win at least 6 games easily.
ummm we will probably win 6 games this year…
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Nov 21, 2011 7:54 AM EST up reply actions
I wouldnt say 6 games in commanding fashion. Our D is showing to have some holes… and virtually 0 depth. Another CB (maybe Sheldon to FS), an impact LB, and a DE that can at least compete to start are needed. On O, we’ll see. The OGs are looking better in the past few games. If that continues we may just need to get a RT. Its pretty clear another high pick WR is coming too. Maybe a RB. lots of ? right now to say we can win 6 in commanding fashion.
I can go with this. I think what we’ve seen the past couple of weeks is that the training wheels are beginning to come off on the offense. Again, we’re still young, raw, and relatively untalented, but I do think if the progress continues, we have an offense that can at least respectably compete.
So, I wouldn’t be upset if this coming draft went really defense-heavy. I’d like to build a shut-down defense, then put in offensive pieces where needed.
by mister serious on Nov 21, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
Yes set up a good defense is always the best way to go. That allows you to try out guys like Colt and Little on offense who have questions about them and still win games. Plus a good defense always wins unless its against a top 5 quarterback but even then its a game.
by youngergenerationbrownsfan on Nov 21, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
What a nail biter. Was at the game in a private suite next to Heckert and Holmgren. This was more intense than that OT game against the Jets I went to last year.
Adam Foote still blows!
Awesome! How were they reacting during the game?
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 20, 2011 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
Lol, I was lucky to get these tickets. I git hooked up myself. They seemed pretty relaxed, saw Heckert laugh a few times, he waved at me when I waved to him,
Adam Foote still blows!
by Heavysoviet on Nov 20, 2011 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
Did you tell him “Blackmon or death”???
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 20, 2011 10:16 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Now where’s my rec button. Oh, there it is.
by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 20, 2011 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
Lol, I didn’t want to make an ass of myself. That’s one front office I wouldn’t want to cross lol.
Adam Foote still blows!
by Heavysoviet on Nov 20, 2011 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
Did you tell him "Blackmon or death"???
by Brownie's Year on Nov 21, 2011 12:46 AM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Good win, if we beat Cincy next week we’ll be ever so closer to getting out of the cellar in the North.
Definitely. Little, sometimes Cribbs, Norwood, and Watson on the field for passing situations.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Agree. Those 4 with some MoMass sprinkled in seemed to be the top targets. Honestly questioning if MoMass is on this roster next year… (assuming we draft another WR in the top of the draft).
I am still afraid Mass is going to die on the field.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
This. Poor guy looks like he is a hit away from retirement.
by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 20, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
Get Norwood matched up on some LB’s and safeties and enjoy the show! Dude has some wiggle.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 20, 2011 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
I’m definitely psyched about Norwood.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Nov 21, 2011 8:38 AM EST up reply actions
I said it before and I’ll say it again: that juke he put on the safety was absolutely sick.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2011 9:31 AM EST up reply actions
If we can get a vertical threat to open the middle of the field – Greg Little will be a beast. He is a physical dude. Hands shaky right now – but by next year – he can be a force.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
Could norwood be that vertical threat? he is fast and has good hands.
by youngergenerationbrownsfan on Nov 21, 2011 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
I think he’s shifty rather than fast. I think Welker-lite was a good comparison.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
I love the Browns but I think after a few years as a fan, I’m ready for a change. Can anyone recommend another AFC North team? I’m always wrong and I think for like 3 three years of service I deserve an upgrade. Anyone have an Idea as to who I should change my allegiance to? Please…..
Dawgs by Nature: Where apparently First Amendment rights are a luxury.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Nov 20, 2011 9:42 PM EST reply actions
…?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I am just saying I think suffering through so many disappointing seasons will make the Brown’s first super bowl victory even sweeter. That is why I don’t go for an upgrade or change my allegiance.
Really, u don’t get my sarcasm? Of all people.
Dawgs by Nature: Where apparently First Amendment rights are a luxury.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Nov 20, 2011 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
Not u bud. You’re somewhat new here.
Dawgs by Nature: Where apparently First Amendment rights are a luxury.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Nov 20, 2011 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
The thing is I have friends ask me all the time why I still root for the Browns, so I have an answer ready to go.
Unfortunately, me too. That’s what we do. If I said how long I’ve really been a Brown’s fan, I would get yelled at.
Dawgs by Nature: Where apparently First Amendment rights are a luxury.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Nov 20, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
I have to say, I like all of you a lot more after we win.
by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 20, 2011 10:24 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
foot tastes better…life is brighter.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
by bross09 on Nov 20, 2011 10:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
a gentleman never tells…
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Maybe you’ll invite me over for pizza one of these days…
In Golan we trust.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 20, 2011 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
Mozzarella made fresh with sea salt….mmm.
Dawgs by Nature: Where apparently First Amendment rights are a luxury.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Nov 20, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
I picked up Alex Smith on two teams. 19.38 on yahoo. :-)
Dawgs by Nature: Where apparently First Amendment rights are a luxury.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Nov 20, 2011 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
My main guys are playing tonight and they aren’t doing shit.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
I play four teams every year, the one who doesn’t have a shot has Aaron Rodgers as a QB. Weird. The 9-1 one has Foster and LeSean McCoy. I already won and i have BenJarvisGreen Ellis against KC tomorrow night yet.
Dawgs by Nature: Where apparently First Amendment rights are a luxury.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Nov 20, 2011 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
The craziest part is I picked up Smith and Nate Washington. They combined for 42.88.
Dawgs by Nature: Where apparently First Amendment rights are a luxury.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Nov 20, 2011 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
I only did one team this year. Bross is freakin’ killin’ me right now.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
I only played one on NFL.com last year and got my ass handed to me. Try yahoo. You can register at least 4 teams. I’ve played about 8 Years and have 2 championships. Many more second and third place trophies.
Dawgs by Nature: Where apparently First Amendment rights are a luxury.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Nov 20, 2011 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
I’m on a DBN league. We use yahoo. It is probably the best site.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 20, 2011 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
Got ya. I’ve always liked it. Last year our league on NFL had 2 more bench players. That was our commissioner’s idea. Hard to get a fill in when the next twenty players are gone.
Dawgs by Nature: Where apparently First Amendment rights are a luxury.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Nov 20, 2011 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
Some conclusions from today…
1. Little is a player. This is his first year as a wide-receiver in the NFL after missing his entire last year of college. He looks really good now. His upside is huge.
2. McCoy has looked better the last two weeks. Seems to be going downfield more which is taking a lot of pressure off of the line and thus making teams put more players in coverage (less in the box). I think some of this is Shurmur opening things up a bit more. I still am not a total believer in McCoy as the ultimate starting QB for the Browns. He has 6 more games to show more improvement.
3. The line and TEs really blocked well today for Ogbonnaya. Nice to see the Browns break a few long runs and to have a 100+ yard runner but I’m not too quick to credit Ogbonnaya. I think the more open game plan helped to create some running lanes.
4. Not sure why the last two games have looked so different from the previous I think Shurmur developing a less risk-adverse plan is a big part of it. He needs to let his team play and his good athletes shine. He also has to focus on plays that get the ball to the good players. He seems to use players completely wrong a lot… fast guys should exploit the ends, not run up the middle. I think Jack Del Rio called a very Shurmur-like game.
5. The Jags are a pretty bad team and they almost beat the Browns on that last drive. True a win is a win but you have to be worried when a poor team is so hard to beat. Last week the Browns lost to Saint Louis… an even poorer team. It is OK to feel good after a win but it is going to take a much greater improvement to beat the next few teams on the schedule.
6. This was a terribly officiated game. I’ve rarely seen so many crappy calls in one game. They more or less evened out but one of the Browns’ TD drives was kept alive 2 or 3 times by penalty calls on 3rd down.
7. Cribbs is a huge part of this team. You could call him the heart of the team but he is also the liver, kidneys and pancreas.
8. That field goal was good.
Grats to the Browns but I’m still pretty concerned about the rest of the season. I’m anticipating being pretty depressed at the end of the season and a win like today’s just ends up costing you 2 or 3 spots in the draft. Still, it is more fun to watch a game like today’s than one like last week’s.
Brownsyup
Joe Thomas is clearly the pancreas.
Dawgs by Nature: Where apparently First Amendment rights are a luxury.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Nov 20, 2011 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
He’s the mushy, easy to screw up organ? He has to be the liver.
What if...
by Danieldelamaiz on Nov 20, 2011 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
He’s where it begins and ends and irreplaceable.
Dawgs by Nature: Where apparently First Amendment rights are a luxury.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Nov 20, 2011 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
I can’t explain why, but I have this strange feeling that you like Kate Beckinsale. Is there any truth to this?
This message will self destruct
Who the hell's interrupting my Kung Fu? - Black Dynamite
by FrankWyt on Nov 21, 2011 3:10 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hes the mushy, easy to screw up organ? Hehas to be the liver.
That description sounds more like Pashos to me!
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 21, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
This week’s gameplan was not really that much more risky than normal. We are finally getting a grasp of the offense. The St. Louis game was with the trick play and the wildcat and multiple end arounds.
We’ve run the ball with power runners inside and fast guys outside all year—to the point that we are almost predictable with it. We’ve tried to put players in position to do the things they do well (Moore on jump balls/going deep, Cribbs with the ball in space, etc). Remember Smith outside on 4th and 1? Remember Hillis up the middle as a fullback? It’s happened all year.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I feel like we tried a lot more down field throws this game. Colt had way more throws beyond the sticks that I could remember.
It’s like I said… maybe it was just going to take Colt awhile to put it all together but when he did, we’d see good results. Yes he had the INT and that’s a mistake, but I’m still happy with the way he played. The Jags aren’t good as a team, but their passing D isn’t a joke. Am I getting ahead of myself because I’m desperate to see Colt succeed? Maybe.
Sammy Watkins for Heisman
I didn’t really analyze the number of down field attempts but it seemed more to me… or maybe it was just more successful. I think the success in the passing game at 10+ yards helped set up the running plays better as there were fewer defenders in the box. This also gave Colt more time. He was definitely staying in the pocket more and exploiting over-pursuit better than we have seen. He would normally roll right from pressure a half-dozen times a game. I only saw him do that once yesterday.
Brownsyup
Yep. And there were a few times where Colt made some nice throws with pressure in his face. His Y/A was 8.3 on 24 attempts, and I’m pretty sure that’s his highest for the season.
Sammy Watkins for Heisman
Yes. This is true. He had less errant throws also. I think I saw a couple that were off the mark but mostly he was on target yesterday.
Brownsyup
I know St. Louis isn’t good, but this is the first time he’s strung together good performances.
Sammy Watkins for Heisman
Yeah Colt looked a lot better yesterday. Now I’d like to see him do it against some really good defenses.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
We threw deep last week, we’ve been throwing deep most weeks. And what I am trying to get at is that we called for deep passes a decent amount each week. Even in 4 verticals there is a dumpoff pattern if the defense plays a certain way. And Colt hasn’t looked comfortable trying to get the throws into tight spaces downfield.
We just are better at connecting these past two weeks. The lack of deep connection has probably led Shurmur and Colt to back off a little in terms of calling deep plays and making deep throws in the past, sure. I don’t have the numbers. But we’ve called for—and taken—deep shots all year.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
we have just sucked a heck of a lot less in the last two weeks.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
Which is a lot of progress if you ask me.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
i can agree to that. we were tremendous slouches in the first 8 weeks.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 22, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
I watched it again and we definitely went deep the most out of any game against Jax. Against STL we were about average, but against Jax we went deep a lot.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
And we were able to connect.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 22, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
Grats to the Browns but I’m still pretty concerned….
I’m anticipating being pretty depressed at the end of the season and a win like today’s just ends up costing you 2 or 3 spots in the draft
Woooohooo! The hay’s in the barn, lets roll baby!
Fixed.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Nov 21, 2011 8:45 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I won’t argue that we saw progress Sunday but I’m always aware of who we are playing. Losing to a horrible team last last week though looking a little better on offense is… progress? Maybe. Barely beating another very poor team yesterday but doing it looking more like a complete football team is encouraging. I consider yesterday something to build upon. If they show up again against the Bengals that will be very encouraging.
Brownsyup
beating another very poor team yesterday
The Jags are ranked 4th in the NFL against the pass. They have one of the better defenses in the NFL. What our offense did against them yesterday was extremely encouraging and a huge sign of improvement. They finally seem to be headed in the right direction and it could very well be the offense has “turned the corner” so to speak. Obviously, we’ll see what happens when we have to face the stiff competition coming at us in the next several games, but there’s every reason to be upbeat right now IMHO.
Also, sorry to have to put it this way but I can’t think of a more delicate way of putting it. I think the “this win costs us x # of spots in the draft” crap is pathetic. Are you really going to tell me that you are disappointed we lost yesterday? Seriously?
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Nov 21, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
I question their ranking on D in the same way I question ours. I know they shut Baltimore down, but so did Arizona. I havent looked at their stats like I have ours, but do they have the same “good in the pass” rankings bc they cannot stop the run?
how about this, they are 6th according to Football Outsiders’ rankings that adjust for strength of schedule.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I think the "this win costs us x # of spots in the draft" crap is pathetic. Are you really going to tell me that you are disappointed we lost yesterday? Seriously?
No. I’m not disappointed we won. I was just saying that the effect of this win against an inferior team is just to move us back in the draft. If the team now continues to put something on the field that is watchable I’m good with ANY spot in the draft next year. This is one victory late in an otherwise dismal season. String together some more good games and I’ll become a believer. Right now I’d characterize my mood as “very cautious optimism”.
Brownsyup
Who cares, we’ve moved back in the draft two out of the past three years anyway, and we have two first round picks. We’ll get good players.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Depends if we need a QB. With the rookie salary cap rules the good QBs in the draft will probably be gone by the 5th pick. A couple of picks could make a big difference if we are looking for a promising QB.
Brownsyup
I think in most drafts you’re right, but there are four guys this year who could reasonably go in the top 15, we’re bound to be there for one of them.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 22, 2011 9:40 AM EST up reply actions
I think there are too many bad teams who have recently invested in a QB for this to matter much. Minnesota, Carolina, St. Louis…Washington, Indy, and Miami were probably going to pick before us anyway, and I think we were out of the running for Jones or Luck unless we traded up.
If Barkley declares we still have a shot at him, and I have no idea where RGIII’s stock is going to end up.
There are great players people are going to want in the top 10: Blackmon, Jonathan Martin, Kalil, Coples, Richardson, Claiborne, Burfict and Kuechley could get on that list too.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Yeah well, like I’ve heard a hundred times on this board every time the Browns injuries are brought up (from the, shall we say “less than optimistic crowd”): “injuries happen to every team in the NFL – its not an excuse for anything”. They’re dealing with them just like the Browns and every other team in the NFL is dealing with their laundry list of injuries.
Hell if we beat the Ravens, I suppose it will be because Ray Lewis was crying on the sidelines with a twisted ankle. If we beat the Bengals, why OF COURSE its because Dalton didn’t have Green to throw to, since he is still out with a knee injury. I don’t want to hear about it. We beat a team that has been consistently ranked as having one of the better defenses in the NFL. Period.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Nov 21, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
We wont beat Cincinnati or the Ravens, I actually think we have a better shot at beating the Ravens than Cincinnati. But highly doubtful we win another game unless we beat Arizona.
The Browns wouldn’t all of a sudden go from a good passing D to an awful one if we lost Haden
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
we would be much worse, but we wouldn’t jump from top 10 in the league to bottom 5. Even without mathis, this is not a bad secondary. maybe very mediocre, but its not like mccoy had a great day against a bunch of scrubs.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Wasn’t Haden out for a game? If so I can’t remember which one or how we did, but I don’t remember any horrendous passing defense games except Tenn but that was more on the LBs and safeties not covering TEs
raiders game and while they didn’t have a receiver like Andre Johnson or Brandon marshall, the passing D held its own ok. Campbell was 6 for 9, but only had a 5.8 ypa and only 1 pass longer than 10 yards. Granted that pass was to DHB who is their #1, but they only really got beat on one play.
It wasn’t perfect, but they held their own and held the Raiders’ 2nd best receiver in check too. They had a lot of passes to their 3rd WR (ford) which may imply they were forcing him more to dump off and/or they had to really spread us out to beat us.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
That’s it. And actually they had Dimitri Patterson playing way off DHB all game to avoid the deep ball. Too bad they ended up giving a 40 yard TD pass to the punter. After the first drive they held up pretty well against a good Oak offense with receivers we would love to have and gave up 14 points on special teams.
we still scored 2 td’s. let’s not start the ring fittings yet…
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 10:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No one is fitting any rings. Missing the point. Here’s the point: Five weeks ago we would have scored 3 points against them, with our only score being a 54 yard field goal by Dawson.
But there have been significant improvements made by McCoy and the offense over the past few weeks. McCoy is throwing very accurately right now. Norwood is quickly establishing himself as a legitimate option at WR. We had them back pedaling with an actual vertical game, balanced very nicely by our running game and with improved play on the o-line and overall protection.
We were moving the ball on them efficiently. We got into the red zone three times and put the ball in the end zone on two of those drives. The red zone drives were 87, 70 and 85 yard drives. On the one red zone drive we didn’t score we had sustained a very nice 70 yard drive down to their six yard line, when McCoy unfortunately threw a pick (which is something he rarely does – i.e. throw picks in the red zone).
So – back to the point. Our offense is clearly making strides now from what we’ve those of us who’ve been watching the games have seen the past couple of weeks. Before that our offense was a horror story. Now they seem to be coming together. No one is fitting any rings. We won’t be in the playoffs. But there is definitely reason to be encouraged by the play by our offense in recent games.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Nov 22, 2011 7:18 AM EST up reply actions
Keep in mind we also played Jacksonville and St. Louis, Two quality opponents they are not. THE REAL TEST COMES IN 5 OF THE NEXT 6 WEEKS, Cincinnati, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh again. We have to move the ball against theses teams to say things are on a better path.
Obviously, we’ll see what happens when we have to face the stiff competition coming at us in the next several games
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Nov 22, 2011 9:25 AM EST up reply actions
We are undoubtedly going to look worse against better teams, but we looked terrible against Seattle. Definitely headed in the right direction now.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I am saying if we are competitive and move the ball against these team (Cincinnati, Ravens, and Steelers) Colt and the offense has a better shot of being here in 2012. If not It is up in the air. I dont think Holmgren will sit back and watch a 3rd year of the offense being this bad. It all hinges upon how well we do against these division opponents. We get blown out and dont score (less than 14 points a game) , the offense will be revamped and look for new faces in 2012.
Keep in mind we also played Jacksonville and St. Louis, Two quality opponents they are not.
Tell that to the Ravens and Saints.
This is the NFL. Beat who you are supposed to.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 22, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Come on you cant compare the Rams and Jacksonville who have been awful all year to two teams that had bad games. They should have beat the Rams and they did not. You get the point, move the ball effectively against Cincy, Pittsburgh and the Ravens and then the offense story has changed, It has not changed much in my mind beating the Jags on a defensive stand and losing to the Rams and the The total points the offense scored between the two games was 26, basically 13 points a game. You average 13 points a game offensively and you never win more than 6 games a year at best.
The total points the offense scored between the two games was 26, basically 13 points a game. You average 13 points a game offensively and you never win more than 6 games a year at best.
I bet you will if your defense is only allowing 11.5 points a game.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 22, 2011 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
Bad teams win occasionally against good teams (see the Tony Grossi case against Mangini) but that doesn’t make the teams good. The Rams and Jags are not good.
I don’t want it to come across like I think the offense is good, or that those two teams are world beaters.
But in a league that thrives on parity, you have to beat the teams that you “should” beat.
So when we do that, and I think both the Rams and Jags are better than their record, I’m not going to be down on a victory. In ’07 we would have made the playoffs if we beat a team at the end of the season that we “should” have beaten.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 22, 2011 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah we are all watching the games but I’m not going to lose my head over barely beating a team with 3 wins. I agree they looked better but years and years of watching this iteration of the Browns has informed me that you can look really good against a bad team and then terrible for the rest of the season. If they look good against Cincy I’ll start to lose my head. Good against the Ravens and I’ll have no neck.
Brownsyup
If they look good against Cincy I’ll start to lose my head
Ok, I’ll be watching you next week then. I expect to see some crazed, high octane kool-aid fueled chest thumping :)
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Nov 22, 2011 9:35 AM EST up reply actions
it’s definitely progress, i don’t mean to diminish that. we have progressed, and we should be happy about that.
but we were at the freaking bottom of the barrel for most of the season, so we need to appreciate the relative nature of the progress. we look better, yes, but we still scored 26 points the last two weeks. we’ve looked better, but i’m still cautious.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 22, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve been as negative as (almost) anyone, and I actually think last week was a case of us playing better than the final score indicated. For most of that game we were in control, even when we weren’t in the lead.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
I understand. Just amazing how low the bar is around here for us to be excited. I’m hoping for a good game against Cincy. I’m at least more excited to see them play this week to see if Shurmur and the boys can string together some decent games. I’m hoping for a trend.
Brownsyup
I think Pat has put Colt more in a position to succeed in the last few games. More throws on first down, more shotgun. More runs from shotgun formation. We will get severe tests during division play, but if we improve – would be fantastic if the Browns would not have to spend top DC on a QB. I just think if we got Blackmon in the first, Little would be so much better. Then we get a lightning fast RB in mid rounds (slightly undersized). One of my frustrations is that usually their is a fast RB available every draft in mid rounds – like McKnight, Sproles, etc, and we have never went in that direction.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
I’m really glad we looked like an NFL team today. That’s promising, considering most of our games look like blooper reels. Maybe Bob Saget could do color for some of our games, especially if he brings the laugh track along.
Going into the game, I thought we had a legitimate shot a the #2 pick. Now I think we’ll be picking around 9th.
by Uwe Blog on Nov 21, 2011 3:41 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I’m really glad we looked like an NFL team today.
I agree…and then shook my head, realizing how low our expectations have become.
by jonnyphoenix on Nov 21, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
First you have to learn to compete, then you have to learn to win…
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Or you learn to compete, fire the coach that taught you how to do it, then start over for the fifth time in 12 years.
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're only 6 wins away from the post-season.
Do we finally have a Home field advantage again: what was with the playing field? I think there was Painted dirt and straw…shade of Municipal Stadium!
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
I thought the field was decent shape.
The crowd was into the game more than I’ve noticed all season – and right from the beginning too
I thought the crowd was great in the second half.
by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 21, 2011 8:32 AM EST up reply actions
On TV we saw a ton of empty seats and that dirt would fly up on every tackle.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Nov 21, 2011 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
It wasn’t packed but it was far from empty. The field did look dusty though.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
I was sort of confused about the field also. There was all this dry dirt flying up on every play. I watched highlights of every game Sunday and I didn’t see this on any other field. Did they have to sand the field or something? It is tougher to grow grass in this part of the country but this is an exceptionally grass-friendly year. I mowed my lawn a week ago and I heard mowers in my neighborhood all weekend.
Brownsyup
…shade of Municipal Stadium!
I wish.
We totally gave away any semblance of ‘home field’ mystique/advantage when we tore it down and replaced it with that dentists waiting room we call ‘cleveland browns stadium.’
by jonnyphoenix on Nov 21, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Joshua Cribbs’ four receiving touchdowns are the most by any Browns wideout since 2007.
My God.
Sammy Watkins for Heisman
That is so depressing. On the other hand, I guess it means that Shurmur really is improving the offense!
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're only 6 wins away from the post-season.
#genius
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Just need more runs to the third-string TE. #progress
by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 21, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah that one shocked me — not even 4 touchdowns! Neither Braylon or K2 put up 4 TDs in 2008!?! Wow.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 21, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
doucheface edwards backed up 16 td’s in ’07 w/ 3 in ’08? that is incredible and awesome.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 21, 2011 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
I just looked over all the QBs for the Browns since 1999. I don’t know why I’m such a masochist, but the entire process resulted in me in the fetal position beneath my desk.
by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 21, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
I was trying to find out Jack Del Rio’s record, so i went to his Wikipedia page. It says he is 2-5 in 2011. He is 3-7. Jacksonville has so few fans they can’t even muster up an effort to update Wikipedia.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I’d just like to say that while both are pretty bad, 4-6 feels a lot better than 3-7.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Should be .500.
Damn you Mack!
In Golan we trust.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 22, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
It’s so depressing to think we’re two fluke plays away from being 6-4.
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're only 6 wins away from the post-season.
We’re also a few plays away from being 2-8. Had they run it to MJD on the last play. Had the Dolphins been able to gain 10 yards on their last possession. These things go both ways for us.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 22, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
I am aware of that.
Dawgs By Nature: Where we're only 6 wins away from the post-season.
by Adrock2099 on Nov 22, 2011 9:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I titally agree
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Freudian Slip.
In Golan we trust.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 22, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
titally.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
by bross09 on Nov 22, 2011 8:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Speaking of, anyone planning on seeing J. Edgar?
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
probably. its got clint eastwood directing so it’ll be at least worth paying to see in theaters.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
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