The Sunday Five: Getting a Top WR Remains a Priority for Browns
by Chris Pokorny on Dec 11, 2011 10:56 AM EST
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"The Sunday Five" is a loosely-titled piece where I talk about five NFL- or Browns-related topics related to this past week. In today's edition, we take a look at the continued need for the a top wide receiver and what other positions the Browns should improve upon next season.
There's no game today for the Browns after the team's loss to the Steelers on Thursday Night Football, making Colt McCoy's record against the AFC North an unimpressive 0-8 over the span of two seasons. It's not easy to win in this division without a good supporting cast, but an example of one of the games the Browns should have had in the bag after Ben Roethlisberger's injury was Thursday's game. All the Browns really needed was one score, and they couldn't get it. Of course, it wouldn't be Cleveland if there weren't a lot of "ifs" thrown into the situation. "What if the Browns had better receivers?" "What if Pat Shurmur had called a QB sneak on the first drive?" "What if McCoy hadn't been put back in the game after his 'concussion'?"
Having better receivers would certainly help the Browns' cause. It didn't help that their best receiver at getting open, Joshua Cribbs, left early on with a groin injury. When you look at the past two games, drops have definitely been an issue. Meanwhile, you've seen young receivers flourish on our fellow AFC North teams. The Bengals had A.J. Green go in the air to make some great, game-changing plays. Against Pittsburgh, we saw Mohamed Massaquoi fail to break up an interception with the game on the line. Right after that, we saw the Steelers' Antonio Brown make a great individual play to seal Cleveland's fate.
Speaking of receivers, how many of you have been really turned off by Greg Little's lack of production the past several weeks? I understand that he is a rookie receivers, but just because a guy has been given a lot of playing time, that does not mean he is very good. Like the rest of our receivers, he doesn't seem to get very good separation. He doesn't catch the ball very well, and he when he does catch it, there is often a big bobble. He hasn't adjust well to balls that are thrown deep. The only thing I've seen from Little that is impressive is his ability to move a pile forward for a few yards after the catch, like a running back. If the Browns get a true No. 1 receiver next year, I don't think Little deserves to be handed the other starting receiver role.
How many positions can the Browns seriously improve in just one year? Amidst the lockout (pre- and post-lockout), the positions Cleveland were able to improve included defensive tackle, defensive end, and nickel back. Let's assume Cleveland can improve three more positions next season. At the top of the list has to be wide receiver -- if we want a quarterback to succeed, whether that is McCoy or someone else, they need to have a top target they can depend on. The other two positions I would go right now are right tackle and a linebacker.
Why linebacker? D'Qwell Jackson has done great this year, but there still has to be some questions about his long-term durability. Chris Gocong and Scott Fujita are very average in their production. We need one of the two outside linebacker positions to be better at defending the run. Our depth behind our current starters is very suspect. After a strong preseason, I've been disappointed with the production of Kaluka Maiava the past couple of weeks. If you bring in a new starter, Gocong or Fujita move to a backup role. That might end up being Fujita, as we have seen Gocong have some terrific backfield stops this season, including a great four-play stretch at the goal line this past Thursday.
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It has to be Fujita because Gocong just signed that long-term deal. Also, our LB’s look like safeties out there they are so tiny.
Our LBs as a group are actually pretty large. Their problem is athleticism, not size.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 11, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
How big do you think most linebackers are?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 11, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
I’m definitely disappointed in Little, but I have to keep reminding myself that just because we used a 2nd round pick on him does not negate the fact that he is a project. We can’t compare him to other rookie WRs who played that position throughout their collegiate careers. I think Hecket may have been expecting Mogwai and Robo to carry the load while Little developed. Oops.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
I am still bullish on Little. He does lead rookie in catches (and unfortunately drops) – so he has some talent. We have to remember he has exactly 1 year of WR experience in college and that was followed by a year suspension. The dude is really, really, raw – the only reason he is playing so much is because the vets were so much weaker than anticipated.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
I believe Little’s biggest issue right know is he’s concentrating on the run after the catch rather than catching the ball and then running. There’s a definate upside to Little, he just needs a little more refinement.
i was watching the giants/cowboys on sunday night and found myself thinking: if brandon jacobs can play running back at his size, why can’t little?
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 13, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
I think Little and Cribbs have the physical ability to play RB. They should at least be getting the ball in a RB-like situations a couple times a game, i.e., bubble screens to the outside, regular screen passes, if not direct handoffs. Little’s played RB more than he’s played WR, if I remember correctly.
by chitown browns fan on Dec 14, 2011 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that’s really my point. Little has played way more RB than WR and we have some RB depth issues … Why can’t he be a RB here, esp if he can’t catch the goddamned ball?
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 14, 2011 2:32 AM EST up reply actions
He does lead rookie in catches (and unfortunately drops) – so he has some talent.
The fact that he has more catches yet has WAY less yards than all those other rookies shows more of a problem than talent.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 11, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
It also reflects the type of offense we run.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 11, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
exactly.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
That’s not an excuse. He’s an NFL player, meaning he has some standards to live to. Yes you can compare him to other players, because he’s being paid the same, was drafted at or higher than those other players, and has had the exact same opportunities.
If you draft a WR in the second and he can’t do the simple things such as, you know, catch a football, then you’ve made a mistake.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 11, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
If you take into account he’s not really a WR by trade and sat out a year I think those are acceptable excuses. Also Roddy White, a veteran, has more drops than Little and I don’t think you would call him a bust?
I was not aware of Roddy Whites drops and I haven’t watched him this year so I don’t know what his story is. But I have a thing against drops. They make me angry. I’m angry at Little and wish we could bury him in the depth chart for dropping so many balls. I’m also angry at our WRs and those who scout the our WRs because we have no better options than to start a drop-a-holic.
Roddy didn’t have to learn the basics
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 12, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
He was called a bust after his first two years, and at the time the thinking was that he could only run a go route and he had horrible hands.
This is 100%. Atlanta fans hated the guy.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 12, 2011 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
Where did you get this info? You mean he has more drops over his entire career than little this specific year?
Not saying it’s wrong, but I find it hard to believe.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 12, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
Someone else here posted this I think:
http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=nfl&type=receiving&rank=232
Roddy White also leads the NFL in targets
He has 39 more than Little, and as of today, they are tied for the league lead in drops.
by SpotOnSpotwood on Dec 13, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
Browns made a huge mistake by not upgrading the roster through FA. We actually got worse through FA. Elam left, replaced by Usama who is worse. Vickers left, and we wasted a 4th (admittedly is not much) on Marecic. Wright forced us to Skrine/Patterson – although Wright is an average 3rd CB – and we are exceptionally weak at 2nd CB.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
We’re building through the draft so get used to it. I would say most of their FA pickups will not be splashy. Of course if you look at the teams who did sign big name FAs, they’re all doing about as bad as we are so we really didn’t miss out on anything other than wasting money.
I agree 100% with the Browns building thru the draft but I believe next years FA market will be much better than this years and I can see the Browns making at least one move towards picking up a solid FA.
We will never catch the Steelers and Ravens that build their team through the draft and FA additions.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
Their FA additions are all small, unheralded additions. We need cheap, solid but unspectacular FA veterans.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Why do they have to be cheap, you keep saying that. We still have plenty of cap room I believe that in order to attract good FA’s to Cleveland we have to pay a fair bit more than successful or warm climate teams.
I'm entitled to my opinion. Especially if I'm wrong.
by Aussie Brown on Dec 12, 2011 7:22 AM EST up reply actions
Because high priced FAs are death to a team. Do you like it when they bring in an outsider to your job and pay them 10xs what you make for doing the same job?
We’ll have to make our offer more attractive. One way to do that is to pay more than market price, but the market for some of these guys is nonexistant. Another way is to point out that its easier to start for us than it would be to start for other teams.
Another way is to draft good young players and win ballgames. Which is what we’re trying to do.
The reason FAs have to be cheap is that you don’t put together a winning team by tying up all of your cap money in older players that no one else wants. You also don’t put together a winning roster by throwing all of your cap room at one older player that everyone does want.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
wright would have been 3rd QB behind Brown, even the way Brown has played. Patterson has played even better than Wright did in the 2nd half of last season, when he turned his game around.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Didn’t know Wright played quarterback — what was his passer rating?
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 12, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
I wish Sheldon’s game speed were better, but he’s 907 years old and partially makes up for it with tackling ability. Patterson’s been a nice surprise. I’d like to see Buster Skrine get some reps somewhere.
by chitown browns fan on Dec 12, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Brown will need to be replaced at some point, but we can let that happen naturally instead of needing to fill a gaping hole.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Meh
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Whaaa? I would take him in a second provided it didn’t mess with their chemistry, which it would since Haden is clearly becoming the leader of that secondary (as Brown phases out) and Samuel wouldn’t be comfortable with that.
I tend to think our CBs through Patterson are fine.
Yup — and certainly not one of the many things we need to address. People seem to think that if a CB gives up catches, he is a bad CB. They should read the NFL rules sometimes.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 12, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
I refuse to read the NFL rules, especially if they don’t apply to the Steelers.
by chitown browns fan on Dec 13, 2011 8:38 AM EST up reply actions
This may sound weird but I would go for 2 WR with our 2 first round picks, then bundle Cribbs and a later round pick to try and get another late 1st round draft pick to get a top notch right guard. After that go for a LB and a RB. Some may say its blasphemy to trade away Cribbs but look at his production the past couple years and listen to his comments. I think Cribbs has lost a step or two and he’s starting to remind me of Lewis back in 08 when he started calling out his team mates. I would keep Little and Norwood , dump Momass and Mitchell. I really do not believe Hillis will be here next year and I have my doubts about Hardesty also, both of whom could be used as trade bait for a FA pick up.
Inb4 “he leads us in receiving touchdowns” cribbs can easily be replaced. Now i love him, he wants the browns to win an has a awsome attitude for cleveland. BUT with that said, norwood has already looked better then him on punt returns. He isn’t great at WR and it’s not hard to replace anyone at kick off, especially a josh cribbs that hasn’t scored in almost 2 seasons of football
by lightninmcqueen on Dec 11, 2011 12:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Also, momass could be a solid back up, but i like thinking of this recieving group… A top reciever (blackmon, Alshon jeffery, etc) little at no. 2 and the norwood at slot. Let moore get extended time, not just “in the redzone” and then upgrade our o-line. Colt mccoy can win at this level, just need the weapons around him.
by lightninmcqueen on Dec 11, 2011 12:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I’m just not sold on MoMass, he lacks breakaway speed and he doesn’t battle for the ball. As far as giving Moore extended playing time, use him the same way they used JJ in 07 on third downs and red zone.
This is the smartest thing our offense could do right now
As far as giving Moore extended playing time, use him the same way they used JJ in 07 on third downs and red zone.
Honestly, as a concept, how complicated is this? This coaching staff makes me want to smash my face through my desk.
by SpotOnSpotwood on Dec 13, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
momass stinks. moore, clearly, is in the doghouse for some reason. they’ve mis-used him all year, if you ask me.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 13, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
laughable that anyone thinks we could get a 1st rounder for cribbs + anything.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Dec 11, 2011 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
This would be a sell low scenario, so you’re probably right. It’s a shame that the blocking on special teams has been so poor this year as to render the best kick return specialist in the league mediocre at best. I hope that the coaching staff sees that it’s the unit and not Cribbs. ST coach needs to be bounced.
by chitown browns fan on Dec 12, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not even sure that it’s on the ST coaching. We dumped a few ST aces to make room on the roster for… whoever. I’m sure it will come to me. Anyways, it’s as likely that we are lacking ST talent as that we are lacking ST coaching.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
Costanzo for sure. Do we still have Nick Sorenson? But yeah, that, too. Good point.
by chitown browns fan on Dec 13, 2011 8:39 AM EST up reply actions
bundle Cribbs and a later round pick to try and get another late 1st round draft pick
Josh McDaniels called — even he thinks that that is giving up too much value for a 1st rounder.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 12, 2011 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
Dammit — not enough value. Point being — Cribbs and a “late round draft pick” which I will interpret as a 4th or even a 3rd is not getting you a first round draft pick. From anyone.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 12, 2011 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
About the receiving corps. I am questioning the coaching a lot. For how long has getting seperation been an issue ?
Robo was a 2nd round pick and by then was said to be the most NFL ready receiver. He constantly had problems getting seperation.
So I would not only like an upgrade at the receivers position, but also at the wide receivers coaching position.
McCoy is struggling also, should we get a new QB coach, how about the special teams, they haven’t exactly been our strong point this year, do we change that coach also and lets not even get into the defenses inability to stop the run. My point is that at some point the Browns have to stop the constant 1 or 2 and done with the coaching staff. Its not as if we’re loaded with top flight receivers or special teams players for that matter. As much as I dislike this coaching staff my belief is we need to give the coaching staff something to work with before we can say they’re the reason the team sucks.
how about the special teams, they haven’t exactly been our strong point this year, do we change that coach also
Dear god, yes please. Tabor needs fired yesterday with how awful our ST has been this season. No one here is advocating another rebuild, but sometimes you have to cut away the dead weight. as far as: “constant 1 or 2 and done with the coaching staff” We’ve had that happen twice. Chris Palmer and Eric Mangini. Botch and the Laughing Man each had forever and a day to prove they weren’t viable HCs.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Dec 11, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
The Browns are on their 5th coach in 12 years which averages out to 2.4 years per coach, to me that’s a revolving door on coaches. Of these five coaches, how many had what would be considered a well rounded team with plenty of talent. The thing is, at some point you have to give the coach something to work with before you decide to blow the system up every other year.
They are only talking about a new QB or ST coach. That’s hardly blowing up the system.
I'm entitled to my opinion. Especially if I'm wrong.
by Aussie Brown on Dec 12, 2011 7:25 AM EST up reply actions
Robo was a 2nd round pick and by then was said to be the most NFL ready receiver.
Perhaps you haven’t heard, but sometimes there are draft picks that bust.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 12, 2011 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
Winning starts at the top in any business. From owner on down you always want the best man for the job. If it means replacing people to get there than that’s what you do. This is the pinnacle of football – not on the job training. Coaches and players should be expected to perform from day one. Too long have our fans accepted mediocrity in the guise of building. I’m calling shenanigans.
Resident of Believeland.
by browndawgbacker on Dec 11, 2011 1:24 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions 2 recs
“Too long have our fans accepted mediocrity in the guise of building. I’m calling shenanigans.”
QFT. No more building or mentoring. Just win and hire people who are talented enough to win more than lose.
by kingcrimson2 on Dec 11, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
exactly. just start winning. why haven’t they done this? i can’t believe they choose to lose every year. just win. how hard is that???
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 13, 2011 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
You are absolutely correct, winning starts at the top, but in the same token, a leader is only going to be as good as those he’s leading. If a leader has little to nothing to work with, his chances for success are not very good. The problem with this franchise is they don’t give the coaches much of anything to work with and if what they have doesn’t work then they blow the system up and start all over. They are either unable or unwilling to bring in top talent. All I’m saying is the old way isn’t working, changing the coaching staff every couple years hasn’t worked so why not try something different.
I agree we’ve had too much turnover. I still think we picked shurmer without exploring enough options and we can salvage it by getting a real, proven OC. The owner needs to demand performance and H/H need to make sure the rest of the staff get with the program. Since it is a business and Cleveland taxpayers pay for the stadium we need to demand better. If this was a stock we all would have sold – it needs to change is all I’m saying.
Resident of Believeland.
by browndawgbacker on Dec 11, 2011 8:59 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
but it’s not a stock. and the fact that it needs to change is not news to anyone. everyone who has ever worked for the browns has wanted, hoped, and tried to win. it’s not that easy.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 13, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
If we waste any of the two first round picks on a OL I will kick a puppy out the window and push a old lady out the window next. The OL is not that bad you can draft OL in the later parts of the draft. We NEED a QB that can throw and a WR that can make the noraml,med and the OMG he just caught that! If we do not fix the need at QB and WR this team will just be the same. Colt is not the answer as much as I had hoped he was the guy just is not. None of the WR we have are worth the power to blast them to the moon with. So here is to hope and all that crap in the upcoming draft. May the swartz be with us…
The coaches aren’t going to draft an OL in the first round. People use the OL as an excuse around here to justify the play of others. The coaches know that although the play could be better, it’s the least of our worries.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 11, 2011 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
Whats wrong with drafting OL in the first round? We certainly need it. Last time i checked the right side sucked. Besides, last time we drafted OL in first round, it payed off well with alex mack.
by lightninmcqueen on Dec 11, 2011 9:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Pashos has actually been okay in Pass Protection. I am not a fan of Lauvao, but I think Pinkston is at least okay, especially as a 2nd year player next year. Plus, Steinbach may be fully healthy. O-Line is not nearly as week as WR or QB play and we have good depth there. Nowhere even close to being needed in the first imo.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Whats wrong with drafting OL in the first round?
Absolutely nothing.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 12, 2011 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
Whats wrong with drafting OL in the first round
Pashos has been playing better than given credit for.
The O-line is average, while pretty much every other component on this team is substantially more horrible with some worst than others. To spend a first round pick on a position that won’t have that great of an impact is completely stupid.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 13, 2011 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
offensive line is humongously important, and the run blocking of this line is shit.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 13, 2011 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
Pashos is also not getting any younger, has avian bone syndrome, and is the one player away from a St. Clair/Hicks/Cousins-level player protecting our potential franchise quarterback’s life.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not a huge fan of drafting a RT in the first round, but I would love to get one in the second and I would be ok with getting one in the first.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
the nice part about trading down last year, we can sit tight and draft 2 quality players.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Yeah…..and we need to make them count, because passing on Julio Jones hurts a bit.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Dec 11, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
Not really. We werent in the position to do that. H&H did a great job in getting us two solid defensive starters. A raw WR that could be very productive, and now 2 firsts this year.
by lightninmcqueen on Dec 11, 2011 11:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
stop trading down and draft a quality player
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 14, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
i hate to sound even a little bit like rocland … but are we sure taylor is a quality player? feels like the jury is still out on him.
sheard is very good.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 13, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
He isn’t great, but I’d still say he is a quality player at his position.
That wasn’t what I was talking about though. I was saying because we got the extra first, we could get 2 quality guys and sight tight this year.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
What would you consider a quality player?
Taylor has looked like chit
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 13, 2011 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
That wasn’t what I was talking about though.
but sure, lets divert the subject with a typical LP argument over one of his typical players he doesn’t like.
I just don’t feel like going down this road.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
but sure, lets divert the subject with a typical LP argument over one of his typical players he doesn’t like.I don’t really have an answer, I actually don’t even focus on Taylor so I don’t know how he plays.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 14, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not sure what you expect from him? Are you expecting sacks or expecting him to occupy tacklers so the LBs can make tackles, which is what he’s supposed to be primarily doing – eating up space.
expecting him to occupy tacklers so the LBs can make tackles, which is what he’s supposed to be primarily doing – eating up space.
I see this a lot from people who don’t even know what that means, but it sounds good so you use it without even knowing the implications.
A DT is supposed to reactive enough to clog a lane when one opens, push his lineman back to the QB/RB, have the strength to move laterally and tackle a RB when running up the gut, and most importantly not be moved and manipulated by a G/C. Or at least, these are things a GOOD DT is supposed to be able to do.
There is in fact a such thing as a good DT and a bad DT. And for you to state that by a player literally just being on the field and weighing over 300 pounds meaning he’s taking up space, which means he’s doing a good job, shows you just might not know anything about how a good DT is supposed to play, which means you don’t know if Taylor is a good DT or not. I think that’s a fair assessment.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 14, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks Mr. Grossi.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 12, 2011 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
Little is still getting separation, the dude just cannot catch the ball. What happened to this, Greg?
I’m seeing LB as one of the biggest weaknesses on the team right now. If we had 3 guys as good as DQ, we’d be a lot better. Or if Gocong could just play a whole game like he plays on goal line.
FS, RT, WR also big holes. But not as big as pre-Mangini. I think we have a lot of places we can improve on the roster but not a whole lot that are dire.
If you are open to getting a OG in the first, look at Glenn from Georgia and DeCastro from Stanford.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Little’s gotten a lot better at getting separation of late, but he still drops the ball too frequently to be targeted as much as he has been. It’s a shame.
by chitown browns fan on Dec 12, 2011 3:32 AM EST up reply actions
I would rather fill our line positions through free agency. We need a guard and maybe a tackle, but I don’t really think we need three first rounders invested in the line. We have bigger weaknesses elsewhere (linebacker and quarterback) and a decent veteran lineman shouldn’t cost an arm and a leg.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 12, 2011 9:22 AM EST up reply actions
I would invest the Falcons pick in a RT (almost never a 1st on a guard in my book). That’s the most I would put into our line right now. I’m just highlighting guys that are supposed to be good OL in this draft.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I wouldn’t be upset if we did that. It’s an understandable move. I would just personally prefer to go another route, but that’s all it is, personal preference.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 12, 2011 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
also, i would love 3 first rounders on the o-line. and 3 first rounders on the d-line. gotta have the line play rock solid.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 13, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
Speaking of which, if we fall down to 8-9 spot I wouldn’t mind Quinton Coples if we stick with this 4-3 stuff we have an awesome D Line. We could also add Zack Brown with the later pick who is supposedly a stud in the 4-3 and then we have a pretty damn good defense. Yes our offense could suck for another year but it might do that anyway.
check out whitney mercilus from illinois. would love to have him with our later 1st round pick or the 2nd round pick. he’s from akron, wonder if he is a fan.
Your born in Cleveland, Your raised in Cleveland, You root for Cleveland.
by brandeezy09 on Dec 14, 2011 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, but you’re not a huge fan of anyone anywhere.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 13, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I’ve been checking out some early mock drafts and the majority of them seem to be picking running back Trent Richardson as our early first rounder. Then for the next one they are all pretty much calling for a WR. The other positions named are LB and OT so they mirror what Chris pointed out. Although Boomer Esiason was calling for the Browns to draft RG3.
Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war
I don’t want Richardson unless it’s at the Falcons pick. RG3 or Barkley would be great. Blackmon also great. We will end up picking somewhere in the 4-6 range, so one of those 3 should be available.
I saw an interview with RGIII and he looked inpressive. His size maybe a detriment. If you can find the big strong quarterbacks that can elude the rush is what I wish for the Browns. (Rotheisberger, Brady, Good McNabb) I do think all efforts will be made to get Luck. More efforts than are being talked about. IF not, they may just keep drafting a supporting cast and make their picks best player available. I dont think they will reach and take Jones or Barkley in the first round. I have not seen to much of Barkley, so it is a gut feel. One question, could RGIII be alot like Colt because of the system he is playing in college? I dont know, NOT SAYING I DO, just asking a question.
Richardson will not help this team right now. I actually think we are fine at running back if Hillis is healthy and used, Ogbonnaya is a decent runner and Hardesty is really yet to be seen alot, but I dont think a running back is anywhere the pressing need on offense. I see it asin order: Quarterback, receiver, O-Line, OC, then maybe running back and lastly TE
RGIII’s numbers shouldn’t be compared to, say, Barkley or Luck’s numbers on an apples to apples basis because of the system. I’ve only seen Baylor a little, but from what I can gather he’s playing in a spread-to-pass, ball-controlled-passing system, not unlike Colt’s.
People seem to care less and less about what system a guy played in, and I tend to agree with that. The mistake is that thinking a guy’s numbers will translate directly to the NFL from any system.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Exactly. I get the feeling that RG3 is a stronger Colt McCoy. Both are around the same heigth and come from a college spread offense. Personally, grab Luck if you can, but if you can’t, build the team. I love Vontaze Burflict at LB and either Floyd or Blackmon at the WR. Not sold on Alshon Jeffries yet. He doesn’t seem as explosive as Blackmon and Floyd
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
burfict is a borderline sociopath. i’d be scared to take him.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 13, 2011 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
RG3 is the type of guy whose skills could work in almost any offense. He can stretch the field much better than Colt. he did run a spread offense that does seem similar to Colt, but the comparison pretty much stops there.
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the colts are drafting luck. end of conversation.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 13, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
if we take richardson i will be so disappointed.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 13, 2011 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know if I will be, sometimes people undervalue RBs too much. Good ones do make a difference and he looks like he’ll really be a good one, and hopefully for a long time.
this line gets used a little too much, but what’s the last consistently good team that had a top-10-pick-quality, “stud” running back? of course, rb is important, you’re right, and you’d rather have a good one than a mediocre one … but i just don’t see the marginal value in top-of-the-draft rb’s, especially w/ the other holes in this team.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 13, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
Same goes for WR actually. I was reading that of the past 10 Super Bowl winners, only 3 had a 1st round WR on the roster, and they were Keyshawn Johnson, Plaxico Burress, and Robert Meachem (2 of which were on a different team that for who they were drafted.
it all boils down to the quarterback.
although, this browns team is in dire need of first-round talent at wr.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 14, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, it is very easy to make a simple comparison between RG3 and McCoy. To me it looks like RG3 is better, but with the system he has played in, he may have the same difficulties that McCoy is enduring. I can’t buy into RG3. I would much rather go after Blackmon, Buflict, Reiff, or Floyd. I also like Richardson, but feel that a good O-line will open holes for any decent RB. A nice Upgrade at RT or G in the First 2 rounds could do wonders for this team.
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
Drafting another quarterback is not the answer. Even if the Browns had Tom Brady as a quarterback I really don’t think it would make a difference. The only difference I would see is a quarterback that would be blaming everyone else and throwing a fit on the sidelines. You got too have more than 2.5 seconds to throw the ball down field. The running game never got established which also put Colt McCoy in a bad situation cause every team out there new to blists every play. How many drop balls did the receivers and tight ends have in total…Something like 38….It’s not the right time for the Browns to start all over again at Quarterback its time to build an offensive line around Colt McCoy the same way the Colts did around Peyton. Maybe I am the only one who see’s Colt go out there every game and takes a beaten and keeps on getting back up. Too many games this year seem like he was the only one playing on offense.
I’m with you on building the team outside of the QB position. I disagree that Brady doesn’t make a difference.
by chitown browns fan on Dec 13, 2011 8:45 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly…see: Indianapolis Colts/Peyton Manning. A good qb is all you need in this league.
Which is why I guess the Colts are gonna just draft another one.
by redCel on Dec 13, 2011 2:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
colt’s ability to take a beating has nothing to do with whether or not he’s actually a good quarterback.
the offensive line is ranked exactly average (16th) in the league in pass pro. the quarterback is the problem.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 13, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
I believe you also have something to say regarding the WRs? ; )
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you know, i still need some time to refine my opinion on the wr’s…
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 13, 2011 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 14, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
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