A Little More Off Season Talk
by troy145 on Dec 11, 2011 7:49 PM EST
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Hey guys, I don't usually make fanposts or anything but today I am particularly bored and figured I'd give it a go.
Obviously the Browns have a litany of needs that need to be addressed that, in my opinion go something like this: 1) WR 2) QB 3) OL 4)LB 5)DB 6)DE. Obviously theres some room for debate as far as what should be a priority, but I think this is a fair jumping-off point for discussion.
The problem is that with so many holes, its clearly not possible to fill them all this off season. I think we ought to focus on three or four positions and dedicate ourselves to solving them primarily through the draft and then seeing where we're at after next season.
With that in mind, there are a couple things I wanted to talk about. I think this draft is much deeper at WR than it is at QB and we're much more likely to get a solid WR who can provide a long term answer for us with our second first round pick than we are at QB. Therefore I think its plain to see that we ought to be prioritizing grabbing a QB with our first pick in the first round.
Robert Griffin III was a guy whos name was being bandied about a lot around here as a potential answer to the QB question that has been hanging over the Browns since our return. Colt isn't going to get it done here, and I think thats becoming increasingly obvious. I think he could be a starter one day, but not in Cleveland. However, Griffin's draft stock has been going through the roof and in most mock drafts I've seen, we're drafting somewhere at the bottom of the top ten and he's going much earlier than that to Washington or even Jacksonville. Berkley is also slotted to go ahead of us, and obviously Luck is supposed to be the first overall pick to Indianapolis.
Another option that I think isn't talked about enough is hitting free agency and grabbing a guy like Matt Flynn who has shown a lot of promise in his limited opportunities and could probably be had for a reasonable price. You have to remember, youre not just paying for a QB but youre also paying for an opportunity to use your draft picks to address other needs. If we could grab a WR with our first overall pick, that would put us in the running for a guy like Mark Barron out of Alabama or maybe if we're lucky, even a guy like Luke Kuechly out of BC.
Say that can't be done though. Would trading up be a possibility? Would Jax, Washington, Indy or any other team ahead of us be interested in allowing us to trade up to their position? In 2010 Josh McDaniels moved from the 43rd selection to the 25th to grab Tebow for just third and fourth round picks. Considering we've got an additional first round pick in our pocket, I'd be willing to part with that much as well as so much as a 3rd or 4th or two next year in order to be in a position to take RGIII considering I dont think there's a lot of talent warranting first round picks outside of Luck, Berkley and Griffin - I think Jones is a bust in the making, Gabbert without the looks.
That would leave us in a position to take a guy like Michael Floyd or Alshon Jeffrey with our second first round pick as many drafts have both of them sliding to our spot. We might even consider trading down a spot or two and banking on landing a guy like Kendall Wright out of Baylor and then using a 3rd or whatever we acquire to reach for a guy like Broyles out of OU who showed a lot of potential before his injury.Think about this as well - if we traded down just a few spots from our second first round pick for a 3rd, which I think is a reasonable going rate, we'd have two picks a round for three of the first four rounds thanks to acquiring an additional fourth round pick from our trade with Atlanta last year.
That all would leave our 2nd round pick available to pick up a suitable right tackle. We don't need a world beater, especially considering whoever we have at QB won't be asked to do a ton of huge drops back, more 3 step drops and get the ball out. We need a guy who can simply hold it down. In other words, we don't need another Joe Thomas or another Alex Mack, we need another Eric Steinbach. Someone like Andrew Datko may be available early in the second round as his stocked has slipped following an injury. Indeed, the way things are shaping up now, some of the best tackles in the draft will still likely be hanging around in the second round.
idk. thoughts?
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I would like to get RG3 in the first even if we have to package our other #1 to move up. Unfortunately though I think the teams ahead of us realize Griffin is a ticket seller and may not be willing to give him up. But if we did that we could maybe get Sanu in the second. I think we’ll probably be high enough to get Griffin without a trade so we could pick up Floyd with our 2nd #1 and maybe Zack Brown with our 2nd round and move Gocong to SAM. We could also take Quinton Couples which would be a nice pass rush complement to Sheard. Or we could take Richardson and have a franchise RB. I think we have a lot of options. In any case I think Colt would be an ideal backup as he will be prepared no matter what, hopefully has the ego to be a backup.
Looking at draft position right now theres 3 teams with a worse record then the browns, and 5 tied. The tie breaker is usually SoS and since we had a considerably easy schedule I think we will be at the top of the tied teams right now (so anywhere from 4-6 as our draft position). If you just look at whose worse, its Indy, STL and Min. STL and Min already have 1st round QBs on their roster and probably arent drafting RG3 (I would guess Blackmon goes to one of these teams and Kalil the other). Luck will be going to Indy if all reports are true. So I think if H&H want, they should be in position to draft RG3.
As for the rest, itll be BPA. I would expect a DE somewhere higher, probably a WR before round 3 then in the 4th or 5th will probably be OL.
We aren’t at the top of the tied teams we’re almost at the bottom with two playoff teams to play. Our weak SOS is a myth because we play the NFC West but SF is a second seed and even Arizona is almost .500
If we are going to go QB with our first pick it better be Luck (not going to happen) or RG3. To me Jones and Barkley just aren’t going to make it as top quarterbacks in the league. Obviously Luck has all the “experts” hyping him up as one of the best prospects ever and I think RG3 has all the physical tools to be the next big QB. If neither of those two are available I think we need to pass on QB and look elsewhere. Hopefully at this point Blackmon, Richardson, or maybe even Jeffery are available because we NEED playmakers and can’t continue to pass on these guys any longer. With our second pick we should go LB or WR with Vontanze Burfict or Michael Floyd being the guys. I really think Burfict is the guy we need. A physical freak with great speed and ability to make plays. With the second pick we can look to get a OT, DT, or DE. And then we let Holmgrem do his thing and draft a QB sometime after the second round and hope he can pan out. To me the whole draft depends on whether RG3 is going to be available; if he is we take him and if not we see what Colt can do with someone who can make plays and an improved line.
i see Luck (IND) and Blackmon (STL) gone before us, as well as RG3 if Jacksonville tanks the rest of the year (very probable). They should be mainly focused on selling tickets after the team sold. So i’m with you in thinking we take best available talent with 1st pick.
I have no issues in giving Colt another year. After 2012 draft we should have a healthy running game again, Steinbach returning, and 2-3 playmakers form the draft.
November 6, 1995 is unforgiveable.
You’re also forgetting Washington will be shopping for a QB if they tank out too.
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
Washington will probably beat Minnesota. At least that’s what we should be rooting for.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 13, 2011 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
they arent playing that badly lately. Helu “my name is..” is playing solid and they are somehow averaging around 20+ points in last 4 weeks….looks like they just took weeks 3-10 off! lol
November 6, 1995 is unforgiveable.
Helu was a fourth round pick, too. He has nice burst, power, and enough speed to get to the edge. If they started using him at the beginning of the season, he’d be a serious ROY candidate.
by chitown browns fan on Dec 15, 2011 1:03 AM EST up reply actions
I liked him at Nebraska
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Nice hands, too. I didn’t know of him until this year, but he’s a joy to watch.
by chitown browns fan on Dec 15, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
Jacksonville just invested a first in a QB last year, they won’t do it in back-to-back drafts.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 15, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
New ownership, plus a precedent being set for it (succesfully) in Carolina.. I wouldn’t rule it out.
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
yep, i also read that Jags GM considered drafting Rothlisberger one year after getting Leftwich.
we beat MIA and i dont see them winning again, so they get 4th pick. So basically we are in a shoot out with TB and WASH for the 5th pick (granted JAX beats IND, CAR beats TB). so i see a board going like Luck, Blackmon, Kalil, RG3…. so that leaves us with a board of Barkley, Claibourne, Jeffrey, Richardson, Coples. who do you take?
November 6, 1995 is unforgiveable.
I like this post, and I agree with most of what you say. I found this line particularly interesting:
You have to remember, youre not just paying for a QB but youre also paying for an opportunity to use your draft picks to address other needs.This is something I hadn’t really factored into the equation before. If our FO thinks we can get a guy to play QB in free agency or through a trade that potentially frees up some high draft picks.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Or pick up a solid #1 or 2 WR, and draft another WR to go along with that. Not to mention maybe a FA O lineman and a draft there also. Ther are many ways to go about improving the quality of players on our roster. I just dont see our FO doing enough of what it takes to get it done faster. By the time its finally done, JT is going to be on hi 8th to 9th year, and he deserves better, as we all do.
At the end of the day I think you will see Luck, RGIII, and Barkely go with the top 3 picks. Having Christian Ponder on your roster does not stop you from picking one of those guys. Sam Bradford may make you think twice – as you may be able to get alot more for the 2nd or 3rd overall than Bradford. So I would say that there will be one trade of the top 3 picks and one will be with the Browns. If the Vikes get the second pick, we trade our first and second picks for the Rams pick to get Barkely. If the Rams get the second pick we try to get RGIII – but end up trading the Falcons pick, our number 2 this year and next year for Sam Bradford.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
Minnesota takes Kalil if he comes out probably, no way they give up on Ponder who has looked pretty good already. If anything St Louis gives up on Bradford who is much more expensive and has had 2 years but I doubt that happens.
Yeah Ponder has shown a lot of potential.
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
Lot of potential? Getting replaced by Joe Webb, and Webb almost pulls the game out against the Lions.
And I should add that Ponder shouldn’t have played in that game at all. He missed 3 days of practice, as a rookie, and should have been keep on the sidelines.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 13, 2011 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
One big variable is I wonder if Pat survives? I think the brass realizes he made a huge mistake by not hiring an OC and calling his own plays. I know you can say that Payton, Reid do (et al) – but they are very talented at it. Pat has never demonstrated that he is. He did not call plays under Reid, and all he has to show for his 2 years is consecutive years of horrible YPA, QBs getting killed. With the Rams at least he had decent rushing numbers, but we have sucked at that too.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
He’ll make it through to next year at least, almost no matter what.
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
I’m still willing to let Colt play another season. We need to do whatever it takes to get Blackmon and a RT. Those should be 1st and 2nd priority. Colt needs weapons and protection. Having Steinbach back will help tremendously and Pinkston is gaining valuable experience filling in so we’ll have better depth.
I believe we will keep Hillis and Brandon Jackson will be back next season. With Obi and Hardesty that makes for one hell of a backfield, as well as Hillis not being hurt for half the season. (I just knocked on wood) If we have to cut down to 3 backs, I say dump Hardesty even though i like the guy
Elvis Akpla is an intriguing guy. I watched some video of him in action and he looks to already be better than MoMass and Robiskie were.
I take this optimism shit seriously.
"Who gives two shits about Matt Roth besides Matt Roth and Matt Roth’s mom?" - LocalMan
by The Licensed Optimist on Dec 13, 2011 12:59 AM EST reply actions
In the first part of this season our offense could hardly even be called a work in progress yet. It was still in the design stage. It was not a pretty sight as it became work in progress with Shurmur finally forging the schemes, figuring out who could play wide receiver and who couldn’t etc. The receivers were still trying to figure out how to run their routes, McCoy didn’t have any chemistry or timing with them and lacked confidence. it was further hobbled by the Hillis debacle and the “RB carousel crisis”, and a couple of rookie guards who were on the verge of graduating from confused, disoriented rookies to serviceable linemen.
In the last 5 games or so we started to show some signs of life. Shurmur’s offense started showing some semblance of an “identity” with the ability to move the ball. Granted it has been in spurts, but IMO there’s been clear progress over what we saw in the first 6 or 7 games. And if Harrison hadn’t taken Colt’s head off I think we might still be celebrating this week coming off a victory over the Steelers on their own turf.
If we could land a good WR (ideally Blackmon) and add a stud RT, beef up our defense backfield, and assuming either Hillis and/or Hardesty are back strong (and Steinback), I believe this team could start firing on all cylinders. If we did land Blackmon and he turns out to be as good as advertised, I think we could competitive in the AFC North next year and start rolling over weaker teams.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 13, 2011 9:06 AM EST reply actions
I’d settle or a draft where we do something like, trade down from our first pick and get Floyd and Barron in the first, then grab a RT in the second.
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
I don’t think they are, but it wouldn’t be a bad thing if they were.
Ward has a reputation of not being able to cover well but Mangini played a lot of quarters and he did great.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Don’t know much about Floyd. I need to watch some game film on him.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 14, 2011 8:36 AM EST up reply actions
I mean he’s good. I just don’t know. Lukewarm.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
my feelings. He will be a nice player in the league, but he doesn’t wow me in any way really. Probably will be a nice possession receiver who can play okay in space.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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