Instant Recap: Cardinals Rally Late, Beat Browns 20-17 in OT
by Chris Pokorny on Dec 18, 2011 7:41 PM EST
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PrintYou could make a timeline of how many different ways the Cleveland Browns have found to lose this season. In Week 15, it was about having a two-possession lead in the fourth quarter, only to fall to the Arizona Cardinals by a final score of 20-17 in overtime.
This was the season debut of Seneca Wallace at quarterback, with Colt McCoy still out with a concussion. He led the Browns down the field on the first drive, capped off with a Peyton Hillis touchdown run. At the beginning of the second quarter, Phil Dawson tacked on a 44-yard field goal to make it 10-0 Cleveland.
The Cardinals went hurry-up in the final two minutes of the half and got a touchdown pass from John Skelton with 0:19 left on the clock, making it a 10-7 game at the half. The third quarter went back-and-forth without much scoring, but then Wallace scrambled out on a play toward the end of the third quarter and found rookie receiver Greg Little down the field. Little caught the pass and outraced his defender to the end zone for a 76-yard touchdown pass. Cleveland was up 17-7 heading into the fourth quarter.
Arizona did a good job putting together another touchdown drive mid-way through the fourth, but the Browns still had a three-point lead at 17-14. On Cleveland's next possession, Wallace was ruled upon replay review as having fumbled the football with Arizona coming up with the recovery. The Browns' defense held, but Arizona was well within range to kick a game-tying field goal.
From there, the game went into overtime. Cleveland got the ball first and missed an opportunity to hit Mohamed Massaquoi on a deep/extended play. The Browns punted the ball, and after keeping it away from Patrick Peterson all game long, Peterson did his work to get a 32-yard return. The Cardinals didn't need to do much to get into field goal range, but they were aided when the defense let Larry Fitzgerald get wide open near the sideline and close to the end zone. On first-down, Jay Feely kicked the game-winning 22-yarder.
I don't know if you could pin this loss on any one player. It was just another "collective" effort of the team not being able to close games.
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Orton plays the best team in the league by a wide margin in his first game with a new team and gets a invigorating win
Tebow plays the first good/uninjured roster on the schedule, gets embarrassed.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 18, 2011 7:46 PM EST reply actions
I loved the headline of an article on yahoo sports that was something along the lines of “don’t just blame Tebow for the loss.” So it’s ok to give him all the credit for the wins, but he shouldn’t take any blame for losses, noted.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 4:40 AM EST up reply actions
don’t just blame =/= shouldn’t take any blame
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
by Simmsinns on Dec 19, 2011 10:02 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That was hyperbole, but I think my point stands. Very few national writers take any credit away from Tebow but apparently it’s ok to shift blame. Not all of it, but any of it is too much if he gets to take all the credit for the victories.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly. When the broncos lose, it’s a team loss. But when they win, it’s a tebow win.
When they lose, the defense took them out of the game. When they win, it’s not the defense that kept them in the game in the first place.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 19, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
I kind of agree with simms here I don’t see people not trying to place any blame on Tebow. They got beat by one of the best teams in the league.
I think the issue here is that while people made every justification in order to divert attention toward Tebow in the wins, they’re now trying to use justifications to divert attention away from Tebow in a loss.
I mean seriously, have you seen any language in the articles stating “don’t just give the credit to tebow for the win”? But yet as soon as they lose they want to explicitly alleviate all of the blame from tebow, when in reality he’s the biggest culprit. It doesn’t matter if they were one of the best in the league.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 19, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not that people aren’t trying to place blame on Tebow it’s that he’s not receiving nearly enough blame for his play in a defeat as he receives glory in his victories.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
Dilfer actually gave him MORE PRAISE for his play in the loss than any other game.
Iknorite?
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 19, 2011 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
dilfer has to defend his fellow mediocre QBs
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 19, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder if Flacco is the big spoon and Dilfer is the little spoon?
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 19, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
Right. I’m well aware the loss wasn’t close to all his fault, but the wins weren’t his doing either. If he gets credit for one, he should take blame for the other.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
4th right now. However, we NEVER need to lose.
by RyanBr on Dec 18, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I want to win. I always want to win.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Dec 18, 2011 7:48 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Look winning is great but we can be 4th and have a top 5 pick and Atlanta’s first round pick. We could make deals or get two really good players. Todays win meant nothing, Seneca Wallace is not going to be our quarterback
Did you enjoy Mangini’s 4 win streak at the end of his first season? It was just as futile, but damn did it feel good. It gave the team confidence and answered a few questions.
I believe you always have to play to win.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Dec 18, 2011 7:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree, wanting to see the Browns lose makes you nothing but a loser.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 18, 2011 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
No it makes us have a better chance at a future, WE DONT HAVE A QUARTERBACK GENIUS. Look back in the 60’s the Eagles won two late game to go 2-12 and miss out drafting OJ Simpson. If they would have only one one game they would have had the 1st pick, But they won 2 of their last three and drafted LEROY KEYES instead of O.J. SIMPSON. Keyes had a total of 3 total touchdowns and 360 career yards. HMMM was winning better then?
We will win, just not with these quarterbacks. These games will be won with better quarterback play. It will get better, the two 5’10 quarterbacks, we have will never be what gets us there. In the long run it is better we did not win. After we get blown out the last two weeks, will today’s win matter? NO
But you have been rooting for the Browns to lose…how sad is that?
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 19, 2011 7:29 AM EST up reply actions
Yesterdays win meant nothing. If they won great but in the long run BECAUSE they lost, it will benefit them more than a meaningless win against an average Arizona team, we play once every 4 or 5 years
There’s no such thing as a meaningless win for me. Losing for draft picks displays an overall losers mentality. Have a little pride, play hard and try to win, that’s what the game is all about. You have no idea how the draft will shake out, considering it’s 5 months away. This bullshit of hoping for losses to improve our position is tiresome. What’s the point in watching? If the players in the league felt the way you do, the season would be largely unwatchable from about week 12 until the playoffs.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
by Dawg Nuts on Dec 19, 2011 10:16 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I wanted them to win, but since they did not, in the end it will benefit us. If we get that 4th pick, it will give us more opportunities than if we picked 10th
yeah, i think people should be careful about the words their placing in others’ mouths. i don’t think anyone here is advocating for tanking or losing for the purpose of improving draft position. it’s a mere matter of pointing out the significant lack of dire-ness of losses like these.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 19, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
I have said that the four game winning streak was bad for this franchise.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 18, 2011 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
I would say this 4 game losing streak, possibly 6 game losing streak is bad for this franchise.
I wouldn’t give up that Steelers win for anything. The Chiefs were just as bad as us. That puts us at 3 wins.
Pretty much no way we have a top 2 pick. I’m not sure of the tiebreaker with the Bucs but that puts us at 3 or 4th in the draft. We selected Haden at 7th.
Missing out on:
Bradford
Suh
McCoy
Williams
Berry
Okung
If you’re talking about because we kept Mangini, that’s on Holmgren. They still acquired the players they wanted to acquire and we actually showed some improvement last year. This year we got rid of replacement level veterans for possibly soon to be out of the league youth. I can’t think of anyone on the team who was hurt by last year.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
The whole thing. Keeping Mangini, possibly missing out on Suh, etc. I love Haden, but give me a pass rushing DT over a CB every day of the week.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 18, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
If the CB can shut down an opposing teams #1 WR or severely limit him, I’d take the CB. The impact an elite CB has and their positional value because of it is much higher, though Suh definitely is an incredible player.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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Never. Always take the rusher. They impact the passing and running game.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 18, 2011 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
and a good CB can’t impact the running game? I love Suh, but I am just going positional value here (if we are talking same level of talent at DT and CB)
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
How much effect does Revis have on the run game? Deion Sanders?
Let’s not even act like they have the impact of a DT.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 18, 2011 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
Positional value is arguable and probably a CB over a DT by pure positional value. However, Suh was probably the best DT in the game as a rookie. Guys like that are priceless. Suh > Haden every day of the week.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
I agree at this point, but if Haden becomes Revis or close to it, I will definitely take Haden.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
which is why at this point I would take Suh over Haden
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
at this point, yeah. If Haden becomes our version of Revis Island (which is entirely possible since like you point out, it took Revis a few years), I definitely take Haden. Just right now, Suh has the bigger impact on the game, even if he plays 2 less games.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
that’s what you get when your DC was an OL coach
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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i’m with you here. i love joe haden. love him. but gimme suh.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
I’m probably the only person here that would rather have Joe Haden on this team.
Suh is a piece of shit. Which is insulting to feces.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
by Simmsinns on Dec 18, 2011 11:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
at this stage, i just want to win something meaningful. let’s get a few w’s in place, and then we can start culling for citizenship.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
Both are excellent players, I like rooting for the high character guy and prefer a CB over a DT. Suh is the better player though.
when you have lineman that can get to the QB, you don’t even need good CB’s
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 19, 2011 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
and a great CB can make up for lack of a pass rush or shut down a team that only has one elite wideout. It goes both ways. Take good players anywhere on the field.
We had a shot to win yesterday because the Browns were able to mostly shut down Fitzgerald.
and a great CB can make up for lack of a pass rush or shut down a team that only has one elite wideout. It goes both ways.
this is very, very wrong. It doesn’t matter how great a CB is, they can’t cover WR’s for eternity in the secondary.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 19, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
no, dorn is right. good coverage can make a lackluster pass rush better.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 19, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
I agree. Sheard is almost a stud himself at this point too.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I agree, because Haden is nowhere near the player that Suh is right now, and CB having more positional value doesn’t make up for it. I would take Suh over Haden right now, I was not contesting that. I was contesting DT vs CB.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
3 wins wouldn’t get us Suh.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
What’s the difference between 2-14 and 6-10 other than draft position?
Good feelings? Save that crap, give me the higher pick.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 18, 2011 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
You want to sit through several years of that shit going forward to get top 2 picks?
No fucking thanks. The day this team tanks a game on purpose is the day I stop watching NFL.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
I want good players. You want Blaine Gabbert or Cam Newton?
If that means going 2-14 instead of 6-10 for a season, then sign me up.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 18, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
losing today sucks. sucks big. but i’m on your team. big picture.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
I just can’t do it. I’ll never support losing.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
Oh I don’t root for us to lose. Wanted to win today too.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
Well I’m saying if we finished 2-14 and got a good player then I guess I think it’d be worth it. But no I don’t actively root for us to lose throughout the season.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
It’s a matter of do you support winning one game today but losing ten tomorrow, or losing one today and winning ten tomorrow. I hate losing too, which is why I want better draft positioning.
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
It’s a matter of do you support winning one game today but losing ten tomorrow, or losing one today and winning ten tomorrow.
Except I don’t believe that’s the case. You can improve the organization, the team and the play on the field without draft picks. You always play to win and you work to do better with the picks you get. Saying that winning one game is going to cause you to lose 10 because you miss the opportunity to draft one player is a cop out.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
Ask the 1969 Eagles who missed out on OJ Simpson because of a meaningless win. They got to draft Leroy Keyes
Yeah, and they could have drafted Joe Greene. What’s your point? Bringing up the 1969 draft as a good reason for losing is pretty dumb.
by RyanBr on Dec 19, 2011 9:17 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Nice Rec
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 19, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
Thank you. Yes, it’s possible you miss out on the so-called guy, in hindsight, but if you have a good organization you should be able to find players in the draft no matter your position.
Also, they didn’t get to draft Leroy Keyes, they chose to draft Leroy Keyes.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
It’s the second time you’ve said it and it still makes no sense. You’re picking one example out of thousands of draft picks over a 40 year span.
Also, how many championships did the Bills win with OJ Simpson? How many have we won with all of our top 5 picks? One or two spots rarely make a huge difference. What makes the difference is how you draft with the positions you have.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
I’m not getting into the argument of whether or not a team is going to draft well.
But getting to pick higher, therefore getting a chance at the “better” players, is a huge advantage.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 19, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
So is winning. Since you know, you the whole purpose of wanting to draft better is to win.
Also you can ignore part of the equation of a succesfull organization. You can’t say something sets a team back without taking into consideration the totality of the organization.
There is more to a successful organization than having draft high draft picks. See the Browns for examples.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
but you have to build to win. you can’t just win, and thereby create an advantage. the way to win is to get an edge elsewhere … like in the top-5 of the draft.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 19, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Or in other places in the front office. Bernie’s statement was that somehow winning those games hindered our development. I would argue Holmgren’s decision to keep Mangini hindered our development, I would argue that we weren’t going to have the 2nd pick and therefore wouldn’t have been able to draft Suh, unless we purposefully tanked each of the final games.
To give the impression that winning those games, thereby costing us draft position is of some kind of extra importance is to ignore all the other failures prevalent within the organization for the sake of trying to find some House diagnosis.
A good organization can do just as well with building with the 5th pick as they could with the 1st or 2nd. As evidenced by the man misses throughout the years in the top picks.
Having a higher pick doesn’t make our team or organization better, so losing to gain that pick does not help the team. Having a quality organization makes the team better. No organization of any quality is debating whether or not they should tank games or whether or not it would have been better for them to lose games at the end of the season.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
again, i don’t think it’s a debate as to whether or not we should try to win games. i want to win them all, but i do see the “silver lining” of losing games like this.
many here have posited that the 4-game winning streak at the end of 2009 was what kept mangini here. while i’m a mangini apologist (like you), if the 4-game streak was the deciding factor in keeping mangini, then winning those 4 games certainly hindered our development.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 19, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
If McCoy lights it up and/or or gives us a win, obviously the QB discussion will take on a different tone. Regardless, we’ll certainly have all the information needed to make a final assessment at that point.
I can come close to agreeing with the silver lining, but that’s not how I read the statements.
while i’m a mangini apologist (like you), if the 4-game streak was the deciding factor in keeping mangini, then winning those 4 games certainly hindered our development.
I would argue Holmgren not having the balls to make the decision he “wanted” to make “or should have made” for whatever reasons/excuses he has, hindered our development.
It was obvious Mangini wasn’t a fit with the FO, get rid of him, that’s what their job is. Instead they took advantage of a ready made excuse for a free year. That’s BS, and in my opinion that type of cheapness fits the MO for this FO.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
maybe i’m projecting my feelings to the other posters, but i see it as a silver lining situation. i’m not rooting for anyone to try to lose games, but it hurts a heck of a lot less.
2010 was a total bullshit year that still pisses me off. holmgren completely chickened out and it’s costing us.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 19, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
and if mangini is somehow better than expected, their jobs just got a hell of a lot easier.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 19, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
But part of winning is turning high draft picks into good players.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 19, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly, but the biggest part of winning is actually winning. Sucking on purpose doesn’t make you a “winner.”
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
don’t you have to get the players to win, though? you can’t just start winning.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 19, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
Yes you do have to get the players. But draft position is not the only way to acquire players. Also if you’re placing the success of your organization on your draft position you better be damn good at acquiring players through the draft.
I just think this draft position thing is a red herring.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
I agree with you but if you’re targeting a specific position or player (like we hopefully will) the difference between 4th and 7th means the difference between getting a potential franchise QB and beefing up our defense with someone like Coples. Either scenario is good but we really could use a franchise QB.
Now I get why you wanted to fire Mangini, you wanted the team to suck way worse so we can start getting better picks. I understand the decisions now.
No, I wanted Mangini fired for much different reasons, but his inability to select, and develop, young players was a huge reason.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 19, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
My comment was a joke.
That said I hate the argument that canning Mangini had to do with his player selecting. He should have been a coach and never a GM. He also should have been evaluated only as a coach.
That said I hate the argument that canning Mangini had to do with his player selecting. He should have been a coach and never a GM. He also should have been evaluated only as a coach.
Your point is valid, but he did take on the GM role basically and deserves criticism for the David Veikunes and Brian Robiskies. Those who want to deify Mangini never deal with that aspect of his regime (in fairness, his bad moves were just more of the same after Savage).
You are correct though that the decision as to whether Mangini should have been retained should have been solely on coaching performance. And I think it was by the way.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 19, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
That’s fair. I feel like my perspective gets unfairly represented sometimes by me, because I constantly feel the need to defend Mangini, but I was always for having a coaching staff and front office on the same page. Additionally, I would rather have a good GM than a good coach. I do think Mangini is and will always be a better coach than Shurmur.
This is my position as well. On my own end, I also feel Mangini gets saddled with some extra blame and I think some of that is because Holmgren didn’t fire him when he should have.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
Pretty much, I just don’t see why this FO needed that year.
I don’t see anyway that Lerner fires the FO. I think they pretty much have free reign for as long as they want, so why waste time time with that BS?
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
Personally I think he truly believed they had turned the corner. If he could sit back and watch them win 10+ games that year I doubt he really feels the need to implement his system.
Because of 4 wins at the end of the year against 2 crappy, one average team and the Steelers?
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
Doesn’t seem like coaches or players really emphasize the SOS as much as we do. When I was tending bar in SF, a lot of the Niners and Raiders would come in and they would be celebrating even if they beat some crappy team by a FG.
I"m trying to address statements as they are brought up.
I don’t know what the FO saw as turning the corner around in a 4 game winning streak at the end of the season.
Did they see something in those games that they didn’t see in our 10 game losing streak earlier in the season?
Most likely our running game. In that case why was Jerome shunned the next year?
I celebrate every victory which is why I don’t see the 4 game winning streak as a negative.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
One other point I will make is that the 2008 draft was historically awful, so while we can moan about Veikune and Robo, almost every pick from the 2nd round on was pretty bad. It just hurts that Shady McCoy went after our 2 guys.
What year was that one good draft? 07? Not really.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 19, 2011 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, I guess you did. In that case, I disagree.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 19, 2011 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
We were 5-11.
The rams had 1 win the lions had 2. We already had 1 and we beat a comparatively sucky team in the chiefs. We also beat the Steelers. The Chiefs game was a toss up, though we did win on the road, and every win against the Steelers should be celebrated. So that’s 4 wins there which puts Suh out of our reach in the draft.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
I’m saying if we lost every one of those last four, we would have finished 1-15. We would have had a shot at Suh.
I understand what you are saying, but I’m dealing with the assumption that we would have lost those last four games.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 18, 2011 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
Gimme that win over Pittsburgh every season. Look, you play to win the game. Herm Edwards was right.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
I enjoyed seeing those Browns win those last 4 games. Funny we have a Mod on this site that wants to see the Browns lose…just so we get a better draft pick? REALLY?! How come teams that consistently pick near that later part of the draft just reload.
Here is a clue: Losing games will not make us winners.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 19, 2011 7:33 AM EST up reply actions
Funny we have a Mod on this site that wants to see the Browns lose…just so we get a better draft pick? REALLY?! How come teams that consistently pick near that later part of the draft just reload.
Because they have good Quarterbacks. Guess where you find those?
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 19, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
On a Cleveland Browns site? This guy is rooting for the Browns to lose! is it just me that sees this as wrong, hypocritical and just plain goofy?
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 20, 2011 8:01 AM EST up reply actions
You find them in all rounds of the draft but OK, keep rooting for the Browns to lose…its just sad. but beating a dead horse.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 20, 2011 7:48 AM EST up reply actions
Name me the good QB’s that have come from outside of the first round. I have done the math. Since 1999, only 3% of the QB’s that have been drafted outside of the first round have been considered “good”.
Marc Bulger, Tom Brady, Matt Schuab and Drew Brees out of 163 guys taken. Yeah, we will be great playing those odds.
Honest question, you think the Colts should win their last two games this season? Answer honestly.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 21, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
We would have had a shot at Suh.
So you want the next James Harrison on the Browns? No thanks.
I take this optimism shit seriously.
"Who gives two shits about Matt Roth besides Matt Roth and Matt Roth’s mom?" - LocalMan
by The Licensed Optimist on Dec 19, 2011 8:15 AM EST up reply actions
Every single one of our players is better than them, just not better at football.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 8:45 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Well I dont get to do anything with the team but watch them so I dont care if they are horrible people, (We dont know Harrison or Suh outside of football either) but on the field where we cheer for them, their talent is far superior to what we have. Harrison is worse than Suh
I don’t need to know anything about them off the field, on the field they are terrible people. I said it in the other thread, I don’t care what these people do in their free time as long as it isn’t truly awful, but I will not support a dirty team.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
we know Harrison enough outside of football. Chances are, he is not a very good person.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Today’s win would have meant that we won and winning is awesome.
by BiggieBrown on Dec 18, 2011 8:45 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Winning IS awesome…you got that right.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 19, 2011 7:33 AM EST up reply actions
So does 4-12
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 19, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
you dont get it
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 20, 2011 7:49 AM EST up reply actions
No, I not a blind loyalist.
You have to see the big plan here. Plain and simple.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 21, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
No, you don’t get it. I completely understand everyone here saying they want the Browns to win every game. That’s pretty natural; you root for a team to be successful, not to be shitty.
But to act as though you can’t see the possible benefit of losing a few games down the stretch of a lost season is to be willfully obtuse. If the Browns win the next two games you will be happy, and in the short term you should be. Winning is fun and we dont do much of it around here.
But if the Browns win the next two games they will have squandered any opportunity to select all of the following: Luck, Griffin, Barkely, Blackmon, Claiborne, Coples, and likely several other of the top prospects, unless they are willing to part with the Atlanta pick to move up. Then when they do trade the Atlanta pick and a third rounder to move up to get one of the above-mentioned players people like you will bitch and moan about what a ransom they had to pay to go up and get Player X and how the Browns are wasting resources when they need more, not less players. And when they don’t move up to take any of those guys and end up with Richardson and Colt still sucks and the receivers are still terrible, people like you will bitch and moan at the wasted opportunity that the 2012 draft was with 2 first round picks.
The obvious answer is that the Browns are much more likely to be a better team next year with the 4 pick and the 21 pick as opposed to the 11 pick and the 21 pick. That is clear as day. If they lose the next 2 games they have a better chance of bein a better football team next year than if they win the next 2 games. It’s very very simple. I don’t begrudge you wanting to win all the games, but it is an entirely defensible position to hope they lose these 2 games for the good of the future. To deny that is just fooling yourself.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 22, 2011 1:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
But to act as though you can’t see the possible benefit of losing a few games down the stretch of a lost season is to be willfully obtuse.
He doesn’t get it, because it’s not about not seeing the benefit that comes from getting a higher draft pick it’s about purposely rooting for your team to lose. That chit’s weak.
If we lose out, I’ll say well atleast we get a better draft pick, but only then.
You play to win the game. Some of the players won’t be on the team next year. You think they give a chit about our draft position? Losing those games could cost them their jobs or their careers. Hell no, they don’t care and neither do I. I want to win. Every damn game. Especially against the Ravens and the Steelers.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
I would love to be 6-10 this year if it means beating the Ravens and Steelers in back to back weeks.
I agree at the very least, I think it should, and it would signify a positive statement for the organization that we can perform well against two bitter rivals who perennially beat the chit out of us, especially with the importance of the games for those two teams.
Play to win.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
And I don’t mind today. We learned a lot about the team, remained competitive, saw out offense come alive, and we gained tremendous draft position.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 18, 2011 7:48 PM EST reply actions
I really think the biggest thing we learned today was that our backup QB is just as good as our starter.
Which tells us a lot going forward.
With Hillis healthy and a non-shitty QB in the pocket, we don’t look as embarrassing as we did earlier
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 18, 2011 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
As it has been said many times: Get a new QB, get a tall WR, get a OC watch the offense move. I know it, Holmgren knows it. Even dipshit Shurmur knows it. Holmgren, though won’t allow Heckert to draft the QB. After Colt, that has me worried.
by Johnnypronto on Dec 18, 2011 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
Holmgren is the QB guru. He has said several times, all QB decisions are his.
by Johnnypronto on Dec 18, 2011 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
He’s actually said he’s stayed out of all the QB decisions and coaching.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 19, 2011 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
RGIII please. Floyd maybe with the second pick- thought I think it would be beneficial to get a guy who can stretch the field.
can Floyd really stretch the field? I haven’t seen him do it all that well at ND.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
He is explosive. Creates separation through quickness. Has great hands and runs around a 4.5. Has some character issues though.
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
I think he can. I like him a lot right now, but it will be interesting to see his 40 times.
The other thing I think a lot of people over look is that he is a fantastic run blocker.
Aha! I knew sooner or later someone would miss Robiskie. ; )
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
by JustBob on Dec 19, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He always seemed to be one of those guys who had good speed, but wasn’t really a burner. He does have some nice quickness, but it’s hard to create consistent deep separation through that.
He reminds me too much of Robiskie though (bigger, taller WR who runs nice routes, decent speed but takes a while to get going, questionable on ability to create good separation in the pros)
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
He always seemed to be one of those guys who had good speed, but wasn’t really a burner. He does have some nice quickness, but it’s hard to create consistent deep separation through that.
He reminds me too much of Robiskie though (bigger, taller WR who runs nice routes, decent speed but takes a while to get going, questionable on ability to create good separation in the pros)
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I really think we undersell Momass’s ability to stretch the field. He’s no burner, but he’s been open deep quite a bit more than I expected this year. I’ve always held that for most guys getting open deep is more scheme and defensive miscues than pure talent.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 4:45 AM EST up reply actions
momass sucks azz.
He sometimes can get down the field, but you can bet on him misreading the ball, or doing something stupid like slowing down and letting the ball go out of reach.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 19, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
There is doubt.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 7:59 PM EST up reply actions
As much as I hate it there is doubt, and it’s legitimate. I think the doubt is now who is available when we draft. If the front office doesn’t like any of the QBs, we shouldn’t draft one. It’s that reason that I’m ok with this loss. I always root for the team to win, but it doesn’t suck nearly as bad when I know the loss helped long term.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 4:47 AM EST up reply actions
An average receiver that can stretch the field wins us this game. At least it lets Hillis have more than 40 yards in 3 quarters of football. They just weren’t even trying to defend the pass at the end.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Dec 18, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure about that — Wallace was pretty awful the second half (not any better than Colt would’ve been probably).
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
They blitzed a lot more in the 2nd half than in the first. Doubt they’d be so comfortable taking risks if they thought we had a decent receiving threat.
For crying out loud, a LB was covering Little on his touchdown catch.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Dec 18, 2011 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
Seems wrong that in all of those blitzes we didn’t have anyone open for a quick pass.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
With Hillis healthy and a non-shitty QB in the pocket, we don’t look as embarrassing as we did earlier
Colt and Seneca are largely the same. I like Colt better, but neither is any more than average. Hillis was the difference here. We need to resign him. The good news is that Grossi tweeted this week that we only have a 10 percent chance of resigning him — I read that as meaning that the FO has already decided to give Hillis a contract.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
Seneca didn’t play horrible.
Seneca sucks.
Colt sucks.
Colt is younger.
Our QBs sucks.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
by Villeslgr on Dec 18, 2011 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
except seneca played worse then his number dictate.
And Colt usually does as well. Can we please stop arguing about different degrees of suck as if either one makes a difference? Sure give Colt more time if need be, but I doubt the FO passes on a guy if he’s available for the right price at the right time because of Colt McCoy. He is a 3rd round draft pick who has proven very little on the field that justifies placing another complete year of faith in him especially as we continue to keep washed up or just bad old QBs as the only other alternative on the roster.
He is just a back-up QB and that is all.
Colt maybe this or worse. As much as I dislike Seneca he has at least proven he can last in the league. Something Colt has not done.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
by Villeslgr on Dec 18, 2011 9:24 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Sure give Colt more time if need be, but I doubt the FO passes on a guy if he’s available for the right price at the right time because of Colt McCoy.
Exactly this.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
by Simmsinns on Dec 19, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I hated that story. My moral conscious was on fire.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 19, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
conscience.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Firefox spellcheck has failed me.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 19, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Is that Amy Adams on the right?
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
Yup. Doubt.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 19, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
I think she was just a cray bitch. Framed the guy.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 19, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
Loved that movie.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
here freaking hear.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 4:48 AM EST up reply actions
exactly…and succinct.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I said I would give Colt the entire season, but sadly I think I am in this camp.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 18, 2011 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
I had to check your user name like five times to make sure it was you.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 4:43 AM EST up reply actions
You dont mind losing. That says a ton about the mentality of quite a few on here. we have been drafting early almost every year since ’99….where has that helped us?!? Franchises turn around when the leaders get sick of losing, when a winning is everything mentality is the number one thing EVERYONE in the organization is about….not losing….for a pick that may or may not help us…sigh…this is a monday isnt it?
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 19, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Why would after 10 losses would I be effected after a loss? At this point all you can do is look toward the future. You’re playing for is pride and winning does not equate to that. Putting up a good fight equates to that, and that’s what the browns did yesterday.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 19, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
I totally agree. At this point, the losses don’t affect me because I am much less emotionally invested in individual games.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I need to stop typing on my phone, this is one of the most grammatically f*cked up thing’s I’ve ever read
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 19, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
Franchises turn around when the leaders get sick of losing, when a winning is everything mentality is the number one thing EVERYONE in the organization is about
Don’t take this the wrong way, but this is all sorts of insane.
Franchises turn around when they get a QB who doesn’t suck. I will give you two guesses where those are found. (Here’s a hint, you need to suck to get there!)
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 19, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
bingo. or, you need to get really lucky. witness: new orleans.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 19, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
or witness: packers.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Hey Bernie, we got better when Bernie started? That team was filled with Pro Bowlers people that wanted to win. Coach, Assts heck back then even Art got out of the way.
At some point the organization has to say enough is enough and what better time than the last two games.
Here is a good read for you: “The Packer Way” by Ron Wolf, in one of the chapter he talks about changing this mindset from bleh to winning is everything. It’s what hasnt happened since they have been back.
So Bernie go ahead and root for another 2 losses…I am sure #19 would not be.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 19, 2011 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
Bernie Kosar also cheated to get on the browns, so it’s tough to use that example. As far as the Packers go, they started winning when they acquired one hall of fame QB and replaced him with another with a chance to get there. They haven’t won anything with a less-than-amazing quarterback.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Here is a good read for you: "The Packer Way" by Ron Wolf, in one of the chapter he talks about changing this mindset from bleh to winning is everything. It’s what hasnt happened since they have been back.
Do you really think this?
Ron Wolf changed his “mindset” when he fleeced the Falcons for Brett Favre. Plain and simple.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 19, 2011 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
Oh and if you knew what it took to get Reggie White to come to Green Bay you would understand a little bit more about changing the culture of an organization. The Packers needed Favre and Reggie to win it all. What he did in turning around the Packers affected every aspect of the Business. You think the Browns could attract the Best Defensive Free Agent to come to Cleveland in 2012?
We need so much more than a QB.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 20, 2011 7:52 AM EST up reply actions
Guess why Reggie White went to Green Bay!? Because they had a good quarterback and he wanted to WIN!
We can’t attract any free agents because our QB’s suck. Plain and simple.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 21, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Kalil will be gone either at #2 or #3
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
No need to get testy….Only made a statement
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
Kalil? Perhaps you don’t know that we already have the best LT in the game?!? That’s one position that we don’t need to improve on.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, but not one that justifies a top 5 draft pick. Period.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
I hope he goes early because that gives us a better shot ate getting Blackmon.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I’m not eating Blackmon…period.
"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden
Bross makes the most amazing typos and grammar mistakes
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 19, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
every once in a while (maybe once a month) I will make a hilarious one and leave it for comedic value but this one was pure accident.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Black men support this message.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
by Villeslgr on Dec 19, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I believe around 70 something percent of people agree with me. Check out the poll someone included in their super recent FanPost for proof..
So?
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
No, I saw Wallace overthrow a few passes, receivers had their best game actually catching a ball, and Hillis busted Arizona’s lip in the first half. Seneca got worse as the game went along and fumbled it at the most inopportune time. Face it, he played the NFL’s 21st ranked defense and only put up 17 points. His stats look a lot like McCoy’s stats this year, but against weaker competition.
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
what a predictable answer from the colt apologists
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
If Wallace had to start against a team like the Steelers or Ravens he would be completely embarrassed. McCoy took that game down to the wire on their own turf.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 18, 2011 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
what a predictable answer from the colt apologists
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 8:05 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Your comments are equally predictable.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 18, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
the juggernaut that is colt mccoy lead the offense to 12 points and a loss against the saint louis rams. save it.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
No one’s calling McCoy a juggernaut. The team’s offense is a mess across the board. They need playmakers. They may also need to draft a QB.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 18, 2011 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
you’re changing your argument. you argued in favor of colt (over wallace, anyway, saying wallace would have been “embarrassed” against pitt) b/c of a 3 point offensive outburst against pittsburgh (the reason we were in that game was the defense). if you want to grant him credit, you’re going to have to face up to the negatives, too.
the offense sucks. they definitely need playmakers. and definitely need to draft a qb.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
1. Wallace is a better QB than those who have trashed him for the past year claim (I have been consistent on this). He is also well suited for the WCO.
2. McCoy is better than Wallace.
3. Neither one is Aaron Rodgers.
4. We desperately need some decent WRs.
5. The draft is coming up soon and we may or may not take a QB high in the draft. If I had to guess right now, I’d put it at about 50/50. Regardless, we’ll be adding playmakers and depth at o-line. I trust H&H in spotting the talent and giving us another good draft.
None of us have any idea at this point what will happen at QB in the offseason. If we don’t draft a QB in the first round, we’ll still probably be a much better looking offense next year with a year of experience in Shurmur’s “system” under their belt.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 18, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
Funny, Rodgers had his ass handed to him today when his WRs dropped passes and the line couldn’t hold water.
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
Oh Lord . . .
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
Oh Lord . . .
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
Oh no he didn’t.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
C/ATT YDS AVG TD INT RATING
A. Rodgers 17/35 235 6.7 1 0 80.1
Looks a lot like McCoy’s stats against a similar defense (Dolpins).
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
Seriously? One game does not a Colt McCoy an Aaron Rodgers make.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
Kind of funny — he just compared Rodgers’ worst game to one of Colt’s best, and from that he is apparently trying to draw a good conclusion!!
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 8:48 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
LOL rec
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 19, 2011 7:35 AM EST up reply actions
Didn’t say that. But how can you say Colt sucks all the time when Rodgers under the same conditions had difficulty.
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
Because Colt never does any of the things that Rodgers does.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
I know, that question kind of answered itself.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
Aaron Rodgers, like all great QBs, has mediocre games sometimes (and even bad ones, but not this year apparently). Comparing his worst game of the season to one of Colt’s best does not say good things about Colt.
What is your point? Serious question. What are you trying to say?
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t compare offensive stats between Rodgers and McCoy based on McCoy’s best day and Rodger’s worst. I showed what both did against similarly ranked defenses. I saw the same thing today on the Packers that I see with the Browns every week. Poor O-line play and dropped passes. Poor Play calling wasn’t in the mix with the Packers, but it sure is with the Browns. Lets just go our separate ways because we will both disagree with each other and we won’t be changing each others mind.
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
this is one of the dumbest arguments i’ve heard on here.
aaron rodgers is playing one of the best single seasons in the history of quarterbacks.
colt mccoy stinks.
what else can we talk about?
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 10:59 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Great quarterbacks will lose some games.
Crappy quarterbacks will lose most games.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Dec 18, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
1. Wallace is a better QB than those who have trashed him for the past year claim (I have been consistent on this). He is also well suited for the WCO.
Wallace sucks. There’s a recent he’s been a back up for 9 years.
2. McCoy is better than Wallace.
Crap is better than barf?
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
Wallace’s passes were had umph behind them, and were for the most part on target. Just that fact alone makes him leagues better than McCoy.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 18, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
I’m just trying to give Colt the benefit of the doubt because he’s younger, so I don’t have to hear the Brees sucked argument.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
Start Jarrett Brown, trade Wallace and McCoy
"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden
Jarrett Brown is on the Colts’ roster.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 19, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
That’s what they think!
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i’m with you on wallace. i actually thought he was clearly our best starting quarterback last season.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
I said on multiple occasions last year that I thought he should be starting. In fact I put up a FanPost making a case for it.
Also, I think maybe it was too early for McCoy to be thrown into the fire (going off on a tangent here…). Yes, he had a few great outings in his “debut” (Pats, Saints, Jets…), but looking back on it I think there was some wisdom in Holmgren’s original plan to sit McCoy for the first year. He’s a tough kid (physically and yes mentally), but I don’t think he was quite ready for what transpired in the horrific stretch of games at the end of the season when the whole damn team seemed to give up. I think some damage was done in those last two games.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 19, 2011 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
bingo.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 19, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
If he let two games get in his head so bad that he’s affected as a player a full season down the road he should not be an NFL quarterback.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
back at ya bro
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 18, 2011 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
Wallace will probably play next week, so we’ll get a pseudo argument.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
You think? Jamison Hensley reported that Colt will be ready.
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Dec 18, 2011 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
I’d be surprised. I just think the team is going to be overly careful with this concussion thing with Colt’s dad’s comments and the league and union looking at us. I honestly don’t see much point in having Colt play the rest of the year.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
that’s what I was thinking. They are just going to be careful with it.
Also, Terry Pluto agrees and thinks they will start Seneca next week because of this.
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That’s fine. Unlike you I gave a reason for my thinking. Unlike you, I actually gave a reason for my thinking without declaring my position correct.
Not exactly sure what you did, but I won’t bother to waste my time reading it anymore.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
Well, I guess we watched a different game today. I thought it basically looked like a carbon copy of McCoy, if not better. Are you trying to tell me if McCoy was playing, we win that game today?
Didn’t say that. I saw “groundhog day” for the past 13 weeks played again today. You all make Seneca out as good, if not better than McCoy, yet he screwed the pooch with his fumble. I may be a “Colt Apologist”, but I have seen enough from Colt to know he is a serviceable QB until we get this team built up.
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
I wasn’t trying to make it out that Seneca was good. I was actually saying the same thing as you, “groundhog day” again today. Looked pretty much the same as all year, right? So we would agree that the last sentence you typed you could replace the name Colt with Seneca.
I believe Colt is better and could be great if given time. Seneca is a good backup, but everyone has to remember that he knows this offense and has ran this offense for 6+ years. Colt has been doing it for less than one season. Same issues we have had all year showed up tonight again. WRs that don’t catch, leaky right side O-line, and shitty play calling is what killing this team.
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
I believe Colt is better and could be great if given time.
holy. shit.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
What? Because I think differently than you, that makes my opinion shit?
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
no. because there is literally no empirical reason to hold that opinion makes this particular opinion shit.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 19, 2011 1:00 AM EST up reply actions
It is my opinion and I hold to it. I have seen enough of Colt to believe he is a serviceable QB. Put the pieces around him first before we judge the body of work. Just because you don’t like what I say doesn’t mean you need to bash it. I don’t bash your opinion and try to make you look like an ass on these boards. It is one thing to offer a counter argument to what I am saying. Nah, that takes too much effort and saying my opinion is shit is waaaay easier. What is the mantra…McCoy sucks and he is the only reason why this team sucks. Hell, you could put Ventrone in at QB and he could do a better job. Never mind the talent deficiency on this team. Don’t worry about the piss poor play calling at critical moments in the game. Hey, Aaron Rodgers could make this team look good….Right? Never mind that he got his ass handed to him today because his O-line could not block Hali and Jordy Nelson dipped his hands in lard before going on the field. But our team is just as talented as the Packers…Right? Our only problem is Colt McCoy absolutely, positively SUCKS. Thats basically what you are saying Correct? McCoy is THE PROBLEM and nothing else? I just want to be sure.
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
I believe Colt is better and could be great if given time.
It is my opinion and I hold to it. I have seen enough of Colt to believe he is a serviceable QB.
You need to make up your mind.
No one’s debating you one the second point. McCoy is in fact serviceable, but what you refuse to comprehend is that serviceable doesn’t win you shit in the NFL
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 19, 2011 1:54 AM EST up reply actions
Ravens SB win, Bucs SB win…yep gets you nothing huh? Unless you are comparing Dilfer and Brad Johnson to Tom Brady and Bart Starr
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 19, 2011 7:36 AM EST up reply actions
Both of those teams had historically good defenses.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 7:37 AM EST up reply actions
And a HOF left tackle, and an RB who had an outrageously good season. And an HOF defense.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 19, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
And Tampa Bay knew the Raiders’ offense’s entire play book.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 19, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
and had Keyshawn Johnson which certainly helped Brad Johnson
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I’m pretty sure Johnson was at least.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
Brad Johnson actually had some pretty good seasons.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 19, 2011 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
yes, he was much better than Colt or Dilfer.
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those super bowls both took place at least a decade ago. next question.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 19, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
And Colt screws the pooch with his ints. They both suck. Seneca played as well today as Colt has this year. Seneca should not be our QB next year. Colt probably shouldn’t be either.
No idea why people want to compare our QBs to our other crappy QBs. Every QB we have had since 1999 has sucked. It doesn’t matter how non sucky they were relative to our other sucky QBs.
but I have seen enough from Colt to know he is a serviceable QB until we get this team built up.
Seriously? I would take a bet that Wallace’s career winds up being longer than Colt’s.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
Colt cant make that throw on the run to Little.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 18, 2011 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
Rolling to the right Colt has made some decent throws. I don’t know that Colt would complete that pass to Mass as was argued somewhere.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
rolling to the right colt has also thrown epically awful interceptions.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, which is pretty much why I have very little faith in Colt. I can’t find anything that you could point to and say he does well or at least decent with any consistency.
It always seems like every play is a hope and a prayer.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
it’s frustrating, b/c he doesn’t do anything great, and there’s also no reliable, productive “go to”.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
He has made throws like that before. He made a great rollout throw to momass earlier in the year that went 30+ yards in the air.
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The MoMas throw went 50 yards in the air.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 18, 2011 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
He can also throw a pick while trying to throw out of bounds, so there’s that to consider.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 4:57 AM EST up reply actions
are you talking Wallace playing more years total in the league than Colt or more years starting today?
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Total.
Though Seneca’s career is the cockroach of the NFL. I honestly think we kept Seneca because it was cheaper and non-threatening to Colt’s development because absolutely no one wants Seneca to be our QB, except Wallace.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
Total, I wouldn’t be surprised. Seneca carved out a nice career as a backup and I think Colt could last 7-8 years at least as a backup, but Seneca has already eclipsed that I believe.
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Every QB we have had since 1999 has sucked.
"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden
I love this argument every time it comes up.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I couldn’t resist.
"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden
We should just set aside a day every month to talk about nothing other than Tim Couch.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe, but not at football.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
by Dawg Nuts on Dec 19, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Maybe I have the maturity level of a five year-old, but this made me laugh.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 19, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
yet he screwed the pooch with his fumble.
and how many times has Colt screwed the pooch with an untimely INT?
but I have seen enough from Colt to know he is a serviceable QB until we get this team built up.
to me, Wallace looks just as servicable, and I don’t even like wallace and for a while, and definitely am not a “Colt Hater”. Wallace is what he is, a career backup, and Colt looks no more serviceable running that offense than him.
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at this point, he probably is a better backup just because he has the experience and has been in that role for a while.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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Great so we’re going to build an awesome team, then get a rookie in there so he can take 3 years learning the offense? that’s ridiculous. Right now is exactly the best time to draft a QB. 1. Its a great QB class 2. all the players our young so they will develop together. 3. We can add pieces like RT and LB through free agency without breaking the bank or getting prima donnas.
I thought it basically looked like a carbon copy of McCoy, if not better.
I’d say the same except change the end to “if not worse.” Either way, Colt is not the answer.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
The series where Seneca fumbled was a good example as to why he may be a faster runner than Colt, but his pocket ability is not superior. That was embarrassing.
you’re seriously citing that poll as your evidence?
and, in any case, 75% of these people are completely insane.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
what a load of horseshit. as far as what? what’s the distribution of voters … don’t start w/ that nonsense.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 7:59 PM EST up reply actions
As great as DBN is it’s a blog. For all we know 100 of those fans could have been Steeler fans.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
I’d like to see them give us the option of creating a poll that is “DBN members only”.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 18, 2011 8:26 PM EST up reply actions
When I see “DBN”, I think of Douche Bag Network lol.
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
Wut?!
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 19, 2011 7:37 AM EST up reply actions
I just know we don’t have 278 people commenting in most of the threads if any.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
Those polls are fun on occasion, but they are pretty much worthless IMO.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 18, 2011 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
(re: those polls are fun…) – especially the ones that have only one option. Those tend to be pretty hilarious on occasion.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 18, 2011 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Wonder what the results are if you poll them today with the question “After watching a career backup outplay our starter, what do you think the Browns should do?”
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Dec 18, 2011 7:59 PM EST up reply actions
60% of the time
"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden
…it works every time.
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and since that point, our starter QB looked bad and our backup didn’t look any worse.
It’s also a bad poll question because I picked keep Colt, but I also want the Browns to draft a QB somewhere in the draft. the two aren’t mutually exclusive, though in the poll they are.
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Please let Jacksonville win that game.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 4:59 AM EST up reply actions
I think they will. THe only problem is I think their head coach is a moron. His game plan may make it hard for them to even beat Indy. You have to remember Indy by winning yesterday , put the first pick in the draft in question if they win one more game, so I am not sure the incentive is there for them to win. DONT BY THE CRAP THAT TEAMS DONT THROW GAMES TO GET A BETTER PICK IN THE DRAFT. THEY DO. Especially when a quarterback is in the mix like LUCK. He potentially answers their long term QB situation.
You would think that, but it is not true. Basketball was the same way that is why they have the lottery in basketball for draft picks to keep teams from losing to get the best pick.
I think that because it is true. There is not a single team in the NFL that suits up on sunday, goes out on the field, and loses on purpose. It’s just not happening.
In who’s best interest is it to lose on purpose? The fans. That’s it. Everyone else stands to lose their job if they lose games.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
basketball is a different animal though. Basketball is the type of sport where 1 player can easily turn you from a shitty team into a legitimate contender. Outside of a great QB in the NFL, no player can do that, and sometimes even a great QB can’t if you need so many other pieces.
The value of one elite player in the NBA is so much greater because its a superstar sport.
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IMHO this showed me that if we allow this team to grow we may very well have a very pleasant future ahead of us. keep building through the draft, use FA to smooth out the process and keep the train moving forward. For all those that want to blow it all up again I am sorry but screw that. I was on board with firing Crennel because the team had no discipline, also when Mangini was let go it was pretty obvious that, that was going to happen. However, this is where the team is headed, lets actually let it get built before we say that it is rotten.
i think “blow it all up again” is very low on most people’s list of what to do with this team.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 7:59 PM EST up reply actions
See! Believe in H&H and in 5 years we will be really good!
by lightninmcqueen on Dec 18, 2011 8:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I have to give Golan props – he said Skelton would be a player.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
Holmgren liked him, don’t know why he didn’t draft him
by Johnnypronto on Dec 18, 2011 7:59 PM EST up reply actions
Awesome! Browns give another game away and then 60 Minutes lead story is on Cleveland’s abandoned homes and the city’s plan to tear down over 20,000 of them. Feelin’s good right now! /pass me the bottle.
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Dec 18, 2011 7:59 PM EST reply actions
Cleveland has actually been on the rebound for a few years now and has gotten plenty of positive press for it from real news sources. As far as tearing down the homes, I think that’s a good thing, it’s something to be happy about. An empty lot has promise, an abandoned home does not. Cleveland is a city that should probably sit around 350-400k in population but was built for twice that. We simply don’t need that many houses.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 5:02 AM EST up reply actions
Right, don’t really understand why a guy in NYC is freaking over Cleveland renovating, trying to expand and upgrade to bring money back into the city.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 19, 2011 6:14 AM EST up reply actions
Just was bummed to see the city being called out as one of the epicenters of urban housing strife. I may not live there any more but I am from there and will always consider NE Ohio home.
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Dec 19, 2011 7:47 AM EST up reply actions
Just was bummed to see the city being called out as one of the epicenters of urban
Stopped there. Guess what; Cleveland is one of the (and used to be the biggest) urban epicenters in the midwest. We will always be in the spotlight; we will probably always be called out. Burning lake? Sewage lines above the city water intake lines? Murky Lake Erie? Dude, you’re older than me and I’m already cool with it.
Haters gonna hate, Potatoes gonna potate.
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 19, 2011 7:54 AM EST up reply actions
It was just the juxtaposition of another bad loss and a 60 Minutes story on a city I love that struck me as annoying. Spare me the attempt at didacticism.
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Dec 19, 2011 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
Sorry about my last comment, SB. Mondays kill me and my bike ride into the office was filled with pedestrians stepping into the bike lane…
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Dec 19, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
Lol, it’s all good. I had to dishwash for 10 hours straight yesterday. Jobs suck.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 19, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
Hillis is not a feature back, either. … sorry.
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Dec 18, 2011 8:01 PM EST reply actions
Then the Cards stacked 8 in the box and blitzed the shit out of us
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Dec 18, 2011 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
He’s decent. He’s not a one of a kind playmaker but he’ll get yards after contact our other backs won’t.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Dec 18, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
he’s good enough for the next 3 years of this browns team
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
the problem is that there is no huge risk if they guess wrong and expect the run. We don’t have an explosive passing game so they can just load up the box and blitz a ton of people.
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The guy can’t make a cut! He’d be great paired with a real RB. Hillis is a glorified FB
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Dec 18, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
They’re blitzing with 8 in the box the whole second half. A better QB and receiving threat and they can’t do that, which would open up some more holes
Point taken. However, I almost think I’d like to see Roy Helu in his place.
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Dec 18, 2011 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
Unfortunately, Roy Helu is not on our roster.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
ok, a guy more like Helu. Shifty but not afraid of contact. Hardesty was supposed to be that guy but he’s Glass Joe 2011 . . .
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Dec 18, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
No, Mike Tyson’s Punchout.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 9:17 PM EST up reply actions
Hardesty also can’t get any more yards than the O-Line gives him.
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Cost them with Little TD. 4th quarter, everything fell apart. Wallace got flustered a bit and slipped all over the field.
by Johnnypronto on Dec 18, 2011 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
And that was Hillis’ fault, Coaching i would say
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 18, 2011 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
I have not seen a more dominate WR performance than Calvin Johnson today. Lechler pins the Lions back on the 1 with under 2 minutes. Stafford throws three absolute duck jumpballs and CJ just gets everyone one of them. 3 catches and a PI and I think he covered all 99 yards himself. He is a stud.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
Maybe the Browns can offer their number 1 pick for him!!!!
by Johnnypronto on Dec 18, 2011 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
Unfortunately, guys like CJ only come around once a decade — or twice, see AJ Green.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
I can’t tell you how badly I wanted us to get a shot at Green last year. I knew he was going to be a great one.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 18, 2011 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
I felt that too. I wanted to root for him anyways in the pros, but now he is on the Bungles.
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AJ is good, but Green is no where near him
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 18, 2011 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
if it weren’t for aaron rodgers and drew brees, megatron would be recognized as the best player in the nfl in 2011.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
to be quite honest I would say Megatron is the most physically and skillfully most dominant player ever. Not to say he will end up being the greatest ever, but if there was ever someone who could, it would be him.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 18, 2011 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
I hate to bring it up, but he kinda is like the Lebron James of the WR position. Amazing speed and athleticism and incredible bulk to go along with it.
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And to think some people thought the Lions should make a different pick.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 5:04 AM EST up reply actions
I think Green could quite possibly be the best WR in the NFL within a year or two.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 19, 2011 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
Not yet.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 19, 2011 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think he’ll ever be as good as Fitzgerald, Andre or Calvin Johnson.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
Prolly, unless he decided to just suck instead.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
He didnt play but I did see him on the sidelines in pads.
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Dec 18, 2011 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
Sign Hillis, sign FA D. Jackson, draft Blackmon, add a super quick scatback in the mid rounds – life is good.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
Blackmon will be a Ram or Jag. Best QB available will be a Brown.
by Johnnypronto on Dec 18, 2011 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
Gotta believe RGIII and Luck will be one and 2. Not sure of the teams that will pick them.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
It depends. The pre-draft preps will probably change things. I could see players like RGIII and Nick Foles really fly up the board while others like Barkley and Jones fall.
by Johnnypronto on Dec 18, 2011 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
Nah, RG3 won’t be 2, unless someone is trading up for him. Luck 1st, then Blackmon and Kalil in whatever order. Then it’s up in the air
I think there will be a record numbers of trades in the 2012 NFL draft. Lots of teams are looking for a QB and I believe the Browns may trade down again unless Blackmon is there.
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
Could be. I heard the Browns like Barkley, but he isn’t a top 5 player IMO. Top 15 yes, but not top 5.
by Johnnypronto on Dec 18, 2011 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
Barkley is very good.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed and Ready
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 18, 2011 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
We just really disagree on this. I think they’re drafting a QB with their first pick. It’s okay to disagree, makes for good discussions, lol
Disagreeing is the fun part
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
Yep. I see a QB with the first pick, and a WR with the second pick. Having said that, I could see some trading going on with that second pick
If you watch Barkley’s tape, you will see he throws bombs a ton down field. He depends a lot on his WRs beating coverage with speed and separation. We don’t have that, so why would we draft a one trick pony?
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
LOL. Rarely do WR’s in the NFL beat DB’s out with speed and seperation. That is a college thing.
In the NFL is is QB accuracy+arm strength, WR leaping ability and strength. Little is a strong dude(with hands issues). But we need a leaper. Barkley wouldn’t have completely missed Mass in overtime like Sennie did and forced Mass to try and make a rediculous catch.
by Johnnypronto on Dec 18, 2011 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
are you sure you’ve watched barkley’s tape?
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 18, 2011 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
lol. Yeah, Barkley’s strength is the mid-range game, a something a certain team needs to improve on.
by Johnnypronto on Dec 18, 2011 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
This is false.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
are you sure you know the definition of the word false?
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 18, 2011 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
Barkley has 100x the arm that Colt has. He has a big time NFL arm. No doubt about it.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
the truth of the matter is that barkley does everything well.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, but USC lived off screen passes, slants, and otherwise all WCO style passes using the second level.
That’s not to say he didn’t go deep at all, but to say that he throws a ton of bombs down field is inaccurate
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 18, 2011 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
Every video I see is long shots down field. Very rarely have I seen a screen in the vids I have seen. Some slants I have seen, but most have been 10+ yards. I believe Barkley leans on the skills around him more so than RG3 and Luck.
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
Every video
Shocking that all the videos show highlights of bombs.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 19, 2011 12:59 AM EST up reply actions
Yup. The guy runs a big time pro offense very well. No guarantees for any QB in this league, but Barkley is worth the risk. I go back and forth between him and RG3.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 19, 2011 2:01 AM EST up reply actions
that’s probably true. but barkley is awesome.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 19, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Wait, so you’re saying highlight vids show big plays instead of the small steady vids?
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 19, 2011 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
Not every video is a highlight vid. Go ahead and nitpick what I say. I watched Barkley live in the Shoe a couple years ago and watch every ND/USC game. I believe he depends on the talent around him too much. There is a reason why USC QBs fail in the NFL. Name one successful USC QB in the past 10 years that has lead an NFL team to a super bowl. Heck, go 20-30 years for that matter. USC recruits elite talent around the QB that elevates his play. Please, prove me wrong. Don’t sit there and tell me I am wrong. Give me stats…Facts…Vids…all that stuff that can prove me wrong.
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
a couple years ago
So, you’re basing your opinion off years old evidence?
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 19, 2011 2:02 AM EST up reply actions
Name one successful USC QB in the past 10 years that has lead an NFL team to a super bowl.
Prior to last year, name me one Cal QB in the past 50 years that has lead an NFL team to a Super Bowl.
Prior to the year before last, name me one Purdue QB in the past 50 years that has lead an NFL team to a Super Bowl.
Prior to the year before that, name me one Miami of Ohio QB in the past 50 years that has lead an NFL team to a Super Bowl (whose name is not Roethlisberger).
Prior to the year before that, name me one Ole Miss QB in the past 50 years that has lead an NFL team to a Super Bowl.
Prior to the year before that, name me one Tennessee QB in the past 50 years that lead an NFL team to a Super Bowl.
I can keep going here . . .
Your point is irrelevant.
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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 19, 2011 2:04 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Purdue is a bad example — Griese and Len Dawson both went there — still that was 30 years ago.
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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 19, 2011 2:07 AM EST up reply actions
Len Dawson: Home town hero.
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 19, 2011 2:44 AM EST up reply actions
Barkley has above average arm strength. He has more velocity on his throws than McCoy, but it is not this huge margin you all think.
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
it is a significant and meaningful margin.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 19, 2011 1:00 AM EST up reply actions
We could have a higher draft pick than the Jags and the Rams could just as easily go with Kalil.
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I am not sure what minny will do, probably take Kalil, but there are a lot of options for STL even if Kalil isn’t available.
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The best hope is the Rams sneak out the first pick from Indy and then trade Luck to the Browns for Blackmon essentially. Not a big Blackmon fan. Doesn’t have the size or leaping ability you need in the WCO.
when I have seen Blackmon, he has shown incredible leaping ability, and he has the size to go over the middle (he just isn’t extremely tall)
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That would be awesome, but I don’t think our pick would be in position to take Blackmon.
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by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 5:07 AM EST up reply actions
Sign Delhomme again.
Ndamukong Suh makes James Harrison look like a teletubby.
by Heavysoviet on Dec 18, 2011 8:27 PM EST via mobile reply actions
The ultimate sign of a team tanking.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 19, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
My 9 year old was predicting the plays Shurmer was calling.
Imagine if Dabol had been given a head coaching job after last season…that is what we did, we hired St. Louis Dabol and are paying for it and for maybe many years..as we nurse this guy on how to be a head coach.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
Doesn’t anyone else remember how bad Drew Brees sucked his first 3 years in the league? Colt needs more time.
Most QBs pretty much “suck” their first year or two when held to the standard of top 15 veteran starting QBs. Folks are impatient. I guess I don’t necessarily blame them.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 18, 2011 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
Matt Stafford, Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Philip Rivers, Michael Vick, Andy Dalton, Joe Flacco, Christian Ponder.
That is off the top of my head. All of those guys had better first full seasons than Colt.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 5:11 AM EST up reply actions
Ponder has only played like 5 full games?
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 19, 2011 6:15 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah don’t know what I was thinking on that one. But as long as I brought him up I do think he’s already better than Colt.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 6:55 AM EST up reply actions
I suppose I wouldn’t disagree.
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 19, 2011 7:55 AM EST up reply actions
Ponder definitely doesn’t belong on your list. Regardless, naming a few exceptions doesn’t negate my statement.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 19, 2011 9:48 AM EST up reply actions
There are others too. Even if they don’t win a lot of games or throw INTs there’s certain eye tests these guys all pass in their first year. Colt actually showed flashes of it last year but for whatever reason (I think he’s too tentative) he’s stepped back this year.
I agree he stepped back, but the whole damn offense was a disaster for the first half of the year. Once they started getting on the same page Colt took a couple steps closer to where he was when he was showing his potential last year IMO.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 19, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, I agree but am still not convinced he has enough arm to rifle the ball into tight windows. I mean Wallace is average at his best and you could literally see the velocity difference on similar types of throws.
wallace stunk, but he stunk very differently than colt stinks. with wallace, the ball comes out fast and has a ton of zip on it. not so much w/ colt.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 19, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
Josh Freeman, Aaron Rogers, Tom Brady, Tony Romo, Matt Moore, Ben Roethlisberger.
More importantly, here is the list of guys who were bad their first year: Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Hasselbeck
Here is the list of guys who were bad their second year:
One of these lists is a lot longer than the other two.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
Since I don’t think I was clear, I went through every NFL starter and categorized the ones I would want over McCoy into those categories. It says a lot that I named so many players.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
Brees had good skills. Colt doesn’t. He is done in Cleveland.
by Johnnypronto on Dec 18, 2011 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
He may stay as a back up, but he’s probably done as a starter. Like I said, if we draft a QB in the first we better give him time rather than say he sucks and we should have never drafted him throughout his first season.
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I’m with this. And I’m not even mad about it. Most of the time, when you draft a QB in the later rounds, he’s gonna be a backup. 3rd round is a little high for a backup, but that’s okay. We all know we’ve wasted much higher picks on nothing in the past!
That’s the biggest thing to me. Why are so many people quick to rush to defend a 3rd round bonus pick? What has Colt shown besides grit and the occasional scramble to have so many place so much faith in him being good? Why don’t other players get this blind faith?
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
Yes! I swear, people forget we drafted him in the third round. It’s not the type of “bust” that would set your franchise back 5 years. It’s okay if he’s a backup.
I havn’t forgotten, I just think we need to work on the supporting cast before we throw another QB into the grinder. What we went like Blackmon then Floyd in the first round? That would be sweet.
I respect that opinion, but I think we wasted a bunch of time focusing on that position when the Browns first came back. I know we are not that great now, but I don’t think we started improving until we began taking OL in the first round. I think one more draft would put us in the perfect place to take a number one QB.
I just think the longer you wait to draft a QB, the older your “good” players get. Think about it, if you like Hillis as our RB and we don’t draft a QB for another 2 years, and then our rookie QB isn’t “great” for a couple years its gonna be time to get a RB again. Joe Thomas will be another 3 or 4 years older. I just think you have to plan as far in the future as possible.
I understand your point, and I guess I am not as convinced Colt can’t be a good NFL QB. That makes me more willing to wait. Yet, I also recognize that I am a layman, which I why I said if H&H decide to get a QB, than that is fine.
The only thing that would make me hate next year’s draft is if we don’t end up with two 1st round picks on our team. We have to many holes not to use both picks.
to me, if you don’t have the franchise qb on the team you have to be looking for him. period.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
I know the Colts in ’98 should have addressed supporting case before throwing a QB into the meat grinder.
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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
That “QB” was the can’t miss QB of that generation. Unless the Browns grab Andrew Luck, there is no other QB in this upcoming draft worth a top 5 pick.
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
Like I said, I respect that opinion. If H&H think its the right move I think their drafts have been successful enough that I trust them. I only be really unhappy if we trade any draft picks to get a QB.
P.S. Peyton had a pretty crappy first season.
The thing is, I think the team is addressing the supporting cast. The FO has been addressing other needs while operating with stopgaps at QB. Remember JD was our starter before injury last year and Seneca was the back up. Now all of a sudden Colt is beyond reproach to some. He’s a 3rd round back up who was intended to be the emergency QB last year.
If Colt develops fine, but we shouldn’t be passing up opportunities because we need to see more of Colt. It should be incumbent on Colt to prove his worth within the time he is given. The team shouldn’t be obligated to give any set amount of time to a guy who they drafted as a “throw it against the wall and see if it sticks” player.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
Believe me I don’t think Colt is beyond reproach. Like I said, if H&H think they have a good QB option at the right spot in the draft then they should take it. I am not sold on “targeting” or going after a QB exclusively. Especially if that means giving anything up to get that QB. Does that make sense?
The team shouldn’t be obligated to give any set amount of time to any guywho they drafted as a "throw it against the wall and see if it sticks" player.
Fixed.
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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
The Robieskie Rule?
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
More like the Veikune rule.
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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
I am fine with him being a backup. I shouldn’t have expected a ton more than Charlie Frye when we drafted him. maybe I bought into the college hype too much.
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i’m sorry to keep raising this, but brady quinn got the heave ho after 12 starts. his results and mccoy’s results are so shockingly similar … why did quinn get run out of town and mccoy has this endless string of supporters?
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
I am going to strongly disagree with you on Quinn. He was just atrocious — not even a serviceable backup. Colt has shown a lot more than him. I don’t care what win/loss or stats say (though I’d be shocked if Colt’s stats are not better), I know what I saw with my own eyes. Quinn was a weakling who looked completely lost and overwhelmed out there. Can’t really say that about Colt.
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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 19, 2011 2:10 AM EST up reply actions
to be clear, i’m not arguing that quinn is good. my point is that quinn was clearly not good after 12 starts, and with largely similar stats and results, colt is clearly not good after 21 starts. what’s the deal?
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 19, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t say the stats are largely similar at all though. With all his struggles, Colt still has managed to post a 75 QB rating for his career which is significantly better than BQs which always sat in the mid-60s.
I also do think that Colt showed more promise and potential so people had more hope he would turn it into something, but its pretty clear now he is not good.
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the best game that either of these two quarterbacks played, and it’s not even close, was brady quinn’s start against detroit. the second-best performance was probably brady’s relief role against the 49ers after DA got hurt.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 19, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
That was probably the best game either one played. That was the career of Brady Quinn right there. Outside of that game, he looked like he didn’t belong on the field in the CFL.
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I dunno if 3rd round is THAT high for good backups. That’s where Trent Edwards, Whitehurst, Brodie Croyle, Chris Simms, and Josh mccown were all drafted.
All these guys are career backups, but good backups who can be competent when starting. Like Colt, all of these guys had potential and had some opportunity, but most don’t ever put it all together. The only 3rd rounder who has recently is Schaub.
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and schaub slid b/c of injury. he was acc POY his junior year, and then got hurt his senior year. he’s also like 6’ 7"
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t know about the injury. I mean, you could say the same about Colt though. Either way, there is always one exception to the rule.
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schaub actually missed time in mid-season, though. like 3-4 games b/w weeks, like, 2 and 6, or something. shoulder injury, too.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 19, 2011 1:02 AM EST up reply actions
i was trying to think about this possibility the other day … how many qb’s that have started for team X for a significant period of time (i would say 1.5 seasons is significant) have stuck around as the backup after a better talent is brought in? just curious, b/c i can’t think of many, so i’m not sure colt would still be a brown. and that would be a shame b/c he seems like a good guy, good leader, hard worker.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
Doesn’t anyone else remember how bad Drew Brees sucked his first 3 years in the league?
Again, that is a BAD part of Drew Brees — it is not something that is a plus.
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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
At least he is acknowledging that Colt is bad, although I am not sure he realizes it.
by Roger Dorn on Dec 19, 2011 12:12 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I also remember the Chargers drafting an elite QB prospect in Phillip Rivers because Brees was looking like such a long shot to develop. Sure, Colt could develop but it would be stupid and irrational not to have a backup plan like the Chargers did.
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That’s the funny thing. Many who reference how Brees was not a good player early in his career forget that his replacement was drafted because of his struggles. Yet somehow Colt deserves to operate outside of the very context some would love to place him in. We draft a Rivers, we trade Colt-Brees. Or maybe we do it different and we trade our Rivers and keep Colt-Brees. Either way, Colt has not shown that the QB position in Cleveland is anything beyond flux.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
I totally agree. It’s fine to say that maybe Colt will turn out, but it would be stupid to use this as an excuse not to get a plan B. AJ Smith might be an ass, but he isn’t a complete idiot when it comes to acquiring talent.
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It isn’t about the McCoy worship that you all keep thinking. I am a McCoy supporter (shock), but even I know he has a ceiling. My problem is people slobbering over QBs in this draft just like they did over Brady Quinn in 07. Didn’t we learn our lesson back then? McCoy and Wallace cannot make the WRs hold onto the ball. McCoy and Wallace cannot block on the Right Side while throwing a pass. McCoy and Wallace do not question the coach for his piss poor play calling. If you get Barkley, RG3, Jones, or even Luck, the O-line and WR problems are still there. We would be setting up another Tim Couch and complaining about how much of a bum he is again this time next year. Cleveland sports…the definition of insanity by repeating the same thing over and over and over and over…..
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
Didn’t we learn our lesson back then?
The only lesson we really learned is that Savage sucks and Brady Quinn sucks. Don’t try to tell me the lesson is don’t try to take a first round QB.
McCoy and Wallace cannot make the WRs hold onto the ball.
Neither can Aaron Rodgers or matt Ryan , but somehow they manage…
McCoy and Wallace cannot block on the Right Side while throwing a pass.
no, but Pashos can and has been doing a fine job. We are not in a desperate need of a replacement that we need to take that player in the first round.
If you get Barkley, RG3, Jones, or even Luck, the O-line and WR problems are still there.
yes, but if they turn out to be good QBs, the WR problems are a lot less obvious. QBs make WRs look better much more than the other way around.
We would be setting up another Tim Couch
Tim Couch did not have Joe Thomas.
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Tim Couch did not have Joe Thomas.
He didn’t have Alex Mack either, or Eric Steinback, or Pashos, or even Pinkston — the guy never had anything but dog crap in front of him. Somehow he did better than Colt though.
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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 19, 2011 2:13 AM EST up reply actions
he did better because in a better situation he could have been something. maybe he could have been a contender.
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True, Taller, Better Arm, just needed time to learn an NFL playbook, which Palmer wouldn’t give him. (wut?! a first year coach making boneheaded decisions?!)
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 19, 2011 7:41 AM EST up reply actions
Anyone have any idea why it was quite obvious Arizona was coming with the blitz and Seneca spent about 15 seconds audibling to a run directly into the blitz? Do you suspect that was the the original play (rufio)?
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
Seneca was a mess in the 2nd half. Whatever the Cardinals changeup up on, bothered the man. He did make that nice throw and catch with Little, but we weren’t substaining the drives like the 1st half.
Looks to me they used the same plan, like they do on Colt. Similiar QB’s, similiar problems. Just a bigger arm.
by Johnnypronto on Dec 18, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
Our halftime adjustments have been pitiful all year. Take out one nice throw and unusual catch/run to Little from Seneca and you have a scoreless 2nd half.
Seneca was embarrassing after that play, especially the fumble series. We scored 17 points, he’s not the answer, dudes.
you’re totally misreading. no one, and i mean no one, here is suggesting seneca should be the starter of the future for the browns. period.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
Seneca may have been only allowed to audible to a running play.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 19, 2011 7:42 AM EST up reply actions
no one here is suggesting seneca should be the starter of the future for the browns
True. What some folks are doing though is grasping at straws by pointing at today’s game and somehow extrapolating it as further evidence that McCoy sucks as badly as they’ve been claiming all year, which is complete nonsense.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 19, 2011 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
today’s game
yesterday’s game
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 19, 2011 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
It’s not complete nonsense. The Browns FO themselves said they were going to use how Seneca played to evaluate Colt.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
How is it nonsense?
The NFL armstrength that Wallace exhibited yesterday is something I haven’t seen all season.
You notice how when wallace passed to Little the numerous occasions, HE NEVER HAD TO SLOW DOWN TO CATCH THE BALL? I want a QB that can hit his WR’s in perfect stride. How about you?
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 19, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
substaining
lol
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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 9:07 PM EST up reply actions
Why is no one discussing the decision to fight for OT at the end of the 4th? We’re a 4 win team, whats the point in playing so conservative? Isn’t this one of the reasons Mangini is gone?
I think the team still wanted to play smart football.
As you stated.
Our halftime adjustments have been pitiful all year. Take out one nice throw and unusual catch/run to Little from Seneca and you have a scoreless 2nd half.
Seneca was embarrassing after that play, especially the fumble series. We scored 17 points, he’s not the answer, dudes.
I think going too far beyond smart football and taking extreme chances given the circumstances reeks of desperation and sets a poor tone for the organization.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
The desperation comes from trying to change our offensive gameplan to throwing the ball vertically while bypassing the running game in hopes of moving the ball 80 yards in a minute when we hadn’t been able to do so all half. Especially when Seneca as many have stated was embarrassing, especially the fumble series. Run the ball see what you can get on first down. Don’t forget we threw the ball on 3rd down. The team was trying to minimize their risk while also setting itself up to create an opportunity to take a lower risk later in the drive. If we line up 5 wide and try to throw deep on each down, Seneca probably ends up sacked, fumbling or throwing an INT. At the very least we probably stop the clock giving the Cardinals plenty of time on their own to get the winning points in regulation.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
So the options are run the ball and see what you can get or 5 wide? The west coast offense must have changed dramatically recently…
The West Coast offense as we execute it, was not going to get us down the field in time to get any points. Heck it’s not even guaranteed to get us a first down.
You run the ball, see how the defense responds and then make your calls. We can just drop back and sling the ball around the field in that position because we have proven all year and in this game that we aren’t exactly capable of doing that.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
We can’t just drop
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
If 1:20 and two time outs isn’t enough for us to get into Dawson range, or at least attempt to get to Dawson range then we’re so bad OT wouldn’t even matter…
Football cannot be won by playing passive. The annalists keep saying teams in the Browns situation are hard to beat because they play like they have nothing to lose, but the Browns neutralize that themselves. I’m sorry, but your idea that 1:20 left and two timeouts is not ideal for ANY team to try a drive is just sad. That’s football for wussies. That’s not adults-that-get-paid-to-do-this-football. That’s not AFC North football. Playing with no killer instinct might win a couple games, but overall its a losers brand.
If 1:20 and two time outs isn’t enough for us to get into Dawson range, or at least attempt to get to Dawson range then we’re so bad OT wouldn’t even matter…
The 9 yard line. We hadn’t moved the ball the whole second half. Or we can shoot for better field position and more time in OT.
That’s football for wussies. That’s not adults-that-get-paid-to-do-this-football.
I guess I’m a wussy then. Does that make you a 3rd grader? I think that’s a statement my students would make.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
Football is football is football. It might be old machismo stuff, but the game has to be played a certain way if you want to win.
Can you imagine a Harbaugh playing for OT in this situation? Even with Alex Smith. We need AFC North attitude or this is going to be our constant result.
I never said play for OT, or atleast that’s not what I meant to imply. I said to play for the chance to win without putting yourself in a situation where the opportunity for OT is taken away by mistakes in execution.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
i can see both harbaughs playing the exact same way as we did.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
Football is football is football. It might be old machismo stuff, but the game has to be played a certain way if you want to win.
I have no problem with machismo, it’s the insults that get annoying.
Also, you don’t just run out on the field with a bunch of machismo and expect that you’re going to be successful. You also have to use your brain sometimes.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
We lost because we aren’t a good football team not because we lack machismo.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
I agree, I just think we were playing to win. I don’t agree that lining up and just throwing the ball was the only way to play to win in that situation and considering our inability to execute and scheme I don’t agree that that was the best way to play the win.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
so, playing to win is all about throwing caution to the wind and slinging the rock? you must be bummed out that we even carry running backs on the roster, huh?
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
and I disagree that just because a thing is conservative that it must automatically be the smart thing to do. Statistics show that the teams in the NFL that routinely go on fourth-short are the teams that routinely win.
fourth and short and today’s situation are vastly different.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 11:42 PM EST up reply actions
Statistics show that the teams in the NFL that routinely go on fourth-short are the teams that routinely win.
Link?
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 19, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
No, there’s actually a real statistic. Ruf swears by it.
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 19, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
I can’t find it at the moment, but I posted a fanshot this summer about a study that came to the conclusion that you should basically go for it on fourth down past your 40 every time. It seems crazy, but the cost-benefit worked out that way.
I realize that’s not exactly the same as saying that teams that do it actually win more often, but it’s probably the best we can come up with.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
It’s probably from Advanced NFL stats because they have a ton on going for 4th downs. I believe the league conversion rate on 4th downs is generally above 70% if it is within a yard or so.
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taking away botched snaps that turn into 2 point conversions, the conversion rate is about 48%. Running plays have good success with a 62% success rate and QB runs have a success rate of over 70%
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
The last two weeks the Cards offense have proven their ability to put up points late in games, and playing conservative to take a chances in sudden death doesn’t seem like it makes much sense to me. If you fumble or throw an INT in OT its the same result. You had to count on your QB to put a drive together for you one way or another. Taking the ultra conservative side of it also sends a message that you don’t believe in his ability. Man up and play in the big league, die swinging.
We started with the ball on our own 9 yard line. It’s not the same result nor the same situation. Nor is it ultraconservative.
A 2 minute drill that starts from your own 9 yard line is vastly different from taking a kick off with 15 minutes of time to operate.
What exactly would you have preferred the team to do in that situation.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
Standard west coast short passing game. Take a chance. Play like men. You have two time outs. There is 1:20 left. The other team has one of the best WRs in football.
The other team has one of the best WRs in football.
And we have most of the worst.
1st and 10 at CLE 9 P.Hillis up the middle to CLV 11 for 2 yards (C.Campbell; A.Wilson).
Timeout #1 by ARZ at 01:03.
2nd and 8 at CLE 11 P.Hillis up the middle to CLV 15 for 4 yards (N.Eason).
Timeout #2 by ARZ at 00:57.
3rd and 4 at CLE 15 S.Wallace pass incomplete short right to A.Smith.
4th and 4 at CLE 15 B.Maynard punts 55 yards to ARZ 30, Center-C.Yount. P.Peterson to ARZ 30 for no gain (B.Skrine).
We attempted to gain a first down and failed to convert a 3rd and 4.
Again I ask, what do you prefer the team to have done. Standard West Coast short passing game. Sounds so simple, why didn’t we do that? Guess we’re a bunch of wussies.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
We tried a bad play-action pass that got thrown away. After an obvious second down run that I could hardly call attempting to pick up the first down.
what is “standard west coast short passing game”, though? our short passing game is no more likely to have resulted in a better situation than 3rd and 4 than the tactic that we did take.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
I really hate the WCO, sure its great if you have Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, Dwight Clark…etc…and Bill Walsh running it but geeesh it really smells.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 19, 2011 7:45 AM EST up reply actions
I hate Shurmer play calling.
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
by dirtyjoe on Dec 18, 2011 9:08 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I hate Shurmer and his stupid face
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
i wonder what SHURMUR thinks about this shurmer guy…
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 18, 2011 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
Probably thinks he’s a dick.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 5:18 AM EST up reply actions
I think Shurmer thinks he battles.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 19, 2011 7:46 AM EST up reply actions
If the Browns end up with pick #4, they will be in prime position to grab Blackmon or Claiborne. It all hinges on what St. Louis does with the 2nd pick (Kalil or Blackmon).
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
I hope St. Louis goes with Kalil or Claiborne. I don’t think we need another 1st round CB at this point
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I hope St. Louis goes with Kalil or Claiborne. I don’t think we need another 1st round CB at this point
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Patterson was the culprit
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
I also think Haden was there but because of the zone he let Fitzgerald go. Not sure but I did see that quite a bit where Haden would have initial coverage and would attempt to slow Fitzgerald down and then someone else would come over to pick him up as he moved up field.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
I said in the first half that this was scary, and it bit us. Not sure why were in so much zone other than they didn’t think Skelton could read it.
When Fitzgerald caught that last pass, they showed he had 3 catches for 65 yards with that 32 yarder being the longest. I thought for sure he had more than that because it seemed like he was catching balls all over the field. Heap was definitely killing us on several drives. Haden’s PI along the sideline on Fitzgerald didn’t help either and I don’t think there’s anyway that pass was going to be completed because Haden had good coverage he just didn’t turn around.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
They were playing a lot of zone today. He got lost in the secondary
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 18, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 19, 2011 7:46 AM EST up reply actions
can we talk about the dropped INTS? Brown and Adams in key parts of the game . . .
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Dec 18, 2011 9:35 PM EST reply actions
Mike Tolbert is a TD chicken hawk.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
Trade away joe haden,dq, joe thomas and peyton hillis for the first four draft picks..
by lightninmcqueen on Dec 18, 2011 9:42 PM EST via mobile reply actions
No, Josh McDaniels would trade those away for the first fourth round draft pick.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 18, 2011 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
Josh McDaniels would trade $5,000 for $3,000.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 18, 2011 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
“Los Browns siguen siendo los Browns” (Browns are still the Browns and let victory slip away). FML eh?
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Dec 18, 2011 9:49 PM EST reply actions
Headline in the BA Herald or ESPN Deportes?
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Dec 18, 2011 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
1. The loss doesn’t bother me. I know some people may get pissed, but give me the close loss over a close win right now.
2. I am thisclose to being on the draft a QB bandwagon. I wanted to give McCoy the whole season, but at this point in time I just think his ceiling is pretty low. Wallace showed me more than McCoy has in most of his games.
3. Someone else said it in here, but Hillis isn’t a lead back. He needs a Bradshaw to his Jacobs, if that makes sense.
4. Mr. Jauron, you have been great all season long, but please let Haden cover the other teams best WR all game long. Thanks, signed Browns fans.
5. Cameron didn’t look too bad today. Hope to see him get more PT the rest of the season. In that vein, Alex Smith, please get lost.
6. Maiva played well. I think his athleticism really helped out on run plays to the outside. Beanie couldn’t get much going on the edges. I hope Titus Brown can come back, he has been good as well.
7. Gocong needs to be going downhill at all times. I think he had 2 sacks today.
8. That is what I am talking about Greg Little.
9. Maynard was awesome all day until the final punt. Our coverage was good almost the entire game because Maynard was putting them on the sidelines.
10. It was nice to see so many rookies contributing today: Sheard, Taylor, Cameron, Skrine and Hagg all had plenty of PT.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 18, 2011 10:01 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
1. That’s the spirit!
3. Hillis needs a Tolbert to his Matthews, not the other way around.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
Not really. I was in the first 3-4 weeks of the season. At this point, I’d just rather not waste a good draft pick on a RB.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
Makes me wonder what good rb’s will be in FA
by lightninmcqueen on Dec 18, 2011 10:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Seriously, Tolbert and Hillis are both straight ahead FB’s who can, when pressed, play TB. If anything, he needs a passing game to open up easy to run through holes. God knows he cant drive a foot in the ground, cut and change directions to find a hole. I like the guy, really! Just not as a feature back
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Dec 18, 2011 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
No. What Hillis needs is good zone blocking or an elite lead blocker (like the one we refused to sign.)
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
He rides the bench. Get off his nuts.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 19, 2011 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
but he can’t catch out the backfield
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 19, 2011 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
You are saying Hillis can’t catch out of the backfield?? WTF?
by OldTimeDawg on Dec 19, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
Vickers.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 19, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
I think drafting a QB should be the thing that makes every Browns fan very excited about the draft and the future of the team.
It makes me nervous, because we never pick the right one. I hope we do this time.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
Got to keep ripping those lotto tickets until you get a winner.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 19, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Most people that rely on lottery tickets end up on the poor farm….oh wait we have been! Gotcha…lets go for more of the same!! Thank you Sir may I have another?
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 19, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
The NFL is a lottery, there is no smart investment strategy.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
I get excited like a small child when I think of drafting a top of the first round QB. I know the odds of him being a future hall-of-famer are slim, but at least at that point you can dream.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 5:22 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with 5-10 only.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 19, 2011 7:48 AM EST up reply actions
Wallace showed me more than McCoy has in most of his games
If you put Wallace in any of the games McCoy played in during the first half of the season he would have looked just as lost as the whole team did. The offense has been in a complete state of disarray from the game plan and play calling on down to the the personnel carousel, until just the past several weeks.
And if you start Wallace against a solid defense there’s really no telling how he would fare. Not saying he would tank, because I actually think Wallace is an excellent backup. But using yesterday’s game as a comparison to McCoy’s body of work on the season really makes no sense IMO.
People are using yesterday’s game to make the statement “see there, McCoy sucks!”. Its ridiculous.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 19, 2011 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
It’s not only the fact that Wallace played well in my mind, it’s the fact that McCoy has shown me nothing.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 19, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
If you want to say McCoy has shown you nothing, that’s fine and there’s plenty of data to use to back up that statement. All I’m saying is that people are trying to somehow leverage Wallace’s decent performance as evidence that McCoy sucks, which is absurd.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 19, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
Wallace’s decent performance
Wallace’s decent performance against a bottom tier defense
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 19, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
The two are independent.
McCoy sucks regardless of what Wallace does.
Seeing Wallace is just a reminder that Colt sucks.
Because Wallace sucks and he looked about as good as Colt.
We don’t need Wallace in the equation, he’s just sprinkles.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
The two are independent.
Correct.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 19, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
That’s precisely the point though. Wallace sucking is independent of Colt sucking. But we already know Wallace sucks. Normally, our equation for whether or not Colt sucks has two unknowns: Colt and his supporting cast. If your hypothesis is that the supporting cast is bringing down Colt, then they should also bring down Wallace. Since they did not, and Wallace performed about as well as Colt given the same circumstances, we’re left to believe the two players are about equal.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
I have no idea what you just said. Maybe if I read it again later it will make sense. Right now it doesn’t.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 19, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Wallace sucks.
We know he sucks.
Many have said Colt sucks because the team sucks.
Well another sucky QB did just about as well as Colt has all year.
Doesn’t say much for Colt performance that it’s been equal to Wallace. Doesn’t say Wallace is good or that we want him as the starter.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
That is what I am talking about Greg Little.
Damn straight. Its about time.
Gocong needs to be going downhill at all times. I think he had 2 sacks today.This. Gocong is a beast.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 19, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
If Watson doesn’t play do we completely forget to throw the ball down the seams?
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Dec 18, 2011 10:03 PM EST reply actions
I didn’t watch most of the game, how did the FB do?
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I would like to know this as well, and did moore even get a catch?
by lightninmcqueen on Dec 18, 2011 10:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
See y’all. Taking a Klonopin and going to bed.
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Dec 18, 2011 10:12 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Would anyone be against getting a top CB with one of our first rounders?
by lightninmcqueen on Dec 18, 2011 10:32 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Yes. I’d hate to think there isn’t a better option at QB, WR, LB, OL.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
Just wondering everyones opinion, honestly i’d love to see WR and OG or WR and S or Luck/RGIII
by lightninmcqueen on Dec 18, 2011 11:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
No reason you can’t do like, RG3, M Floyd in the first, then get a tackle in the second. Maybe trade away some of your 3s and 4s and trade down to get another first or second to grab a CB or LB
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
probably. definitely against it with our first pick but if somehow morris claiborne (or dre kirpatrick) slide to the 2nd pick, I may favor picking one of them. That won’t happen though.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
If I hadn’t benched Hillis, I would’ve won vs. SB. Dammit. And he had two people out!
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
I was getting killed against the best team by far in the league but I switched out Brandon Lloyd for Aaron Hernandez in my WR/TE slot at the last minute. and he got me to only being down 10.96 pts. My opponents done and I still have Akers and Mike Wallace to go tommorrow night so I think I might have a decent shot to actually the championship.
by jonnyphoenix on Dec 18, 2011 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
My worry is Brown, Bens injury…however I guess a positive is that I think the steelers will have to throw to beat san fran. They’re good against the run but not too great against the pass. Ill take 50-60 yards from Wallace and a few field goals from Akers. Akers has been scoring well since the 49ers are usually good enough to move the football, but struggle in the red zone. We’ll see…
by jonnyphoenix on Dec 18, 2011 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
Basically I need 50 yards from Wallace and 2 field goals from Akers, in a nutshell.
by jonnyphoenix on Dec 18, 2011 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
I haven’t checked my lineup in like three weeks. That’s hilarious.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 19, 2011 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
@joehaden23
Joe Haden
We play hard everyweek I get that so that aint enough! Lets Make a stand and finish strong! Us and r fans deserve better! #PERIOD#on2DaNext
@kidnamed_matty
matt sarosy
@joehaden23 lose out we could use better draft picks…the games are meaningless. It would be stupid to win.
These two quotes weren’t connected.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
It would be stupid to win.
What a fucking moron.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
All except for the Steelers and maybe the Ravens. It’s be pretty dumb. I mean, it just killed the Dolphins chances at Luck. That was stupid.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 19, 2011 1:00 AM EST up reply actions
Browns - Ravens
Early Line has the Ravens favored by 14 1/2. That sucks. I guess they think Baltimore will run all over the Browns again with Ray RIce. I hope the Browns can atleast make the game interesting. I am afraid it will not be close especially if the Steelers lose tomorrow night against San Francisco. If the Steelers lose the Ravens can still win the division and in all likelyhood the 2nd seed with two wins in their last two games, and they will start with us.
“He broke us down,” Cribbs said. “He reminds me of myself when I’m healthy. He’ll be a great talent in this league.”
Does anyone think this means anything?
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
We aren’t gonna be winning ball club for the next 2 or 3 years…that sucks. Need to address QB, WR, TE, RT, LT, CB, LB, DE, OC and I think HC as well.
This Colt/Seneca situation is a joke.
Love the way D’Qwell, Gocong, and Sheard played today. Dudes are gamers.
If we trade away our top draft pick again, I’ll go ballistic.
Couple questions:
Are we gonna sign Hillis again? Personally, I really like the way that guy plays and want him back taking the majority of the carries next year.
Also, what are the ramifications gonna be for this whole McConcussion deal? Any chance they take away our draft pick? Would be the worst
Need to address QB, WR, TE, RT, LT, CB, LB, DE, OC and I think HC as well.
May God have mercy on your soul.
Also, not ever position we have has to be manned by pro-bowlers. Lots of these areas need improvement, but some — CB for example — are already pretty good.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 19, 2011 2:57 AM EST up reply actions
Haha, meant RG…Thomas is our anchor without which this ship will sail even further away from the playoffs.
But I feel we do need help at CB. Im not as high on Haden as everyone else (seems like he always gives up one BIG play a game), Sheldon is hit or miss, and our depth is non-existent.
Defense shouldn’t be our top priority though. Those guys come to play each week…can’t say the same for our O
I take RG3 with the 4th pick, Floyd or Jeffreys with our second, get a RT in the second round and snag up grouped in the fourth. Resign Hillis, get Jackson healthy, and we have a presentable offense. Would love to see a guy like Keuchly or Barron suit up for us but I just don’t see us passing up offensive playmakers at this point.
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
This is pretty much my ideal scenario.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 19, 2011 5:24 AM EST up reply actions
2 games left….2 division games…2 games that will affect some home field outcomes….2 games I want to win! You fans that want to lose so we move up a spot or two are missing it and making me hurl.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
sorry a bit grumpy this morning…
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 19, 2011 7:52 AM EST up reply actions
After watching yesterday. I am thinking there will be a major play for Andrew Luck, after that, there maybe trades made again to acquire draft picks, unless Blackmon is available. They will not spend the 4th over all pick, on RGIII or Barkley, or Jones. My prediciton
I think they feel we have so many holes they (Heckert) will not mortgage the future unless it is the exact guy they want. They passed on Julio Jones, and so many guys that were possible good players to get more selections. If they were sold on Colt , they would have selected Julio Jones.
You understand that you make no sense most of the time, right? I was saying why wouldn’t they draft him (RG3, Barkley, etc.) and in your answer to me you say they’re not sold on Colt? You also say there will be a major play for Andrew Luck and then immediately afterwards say Heckert feels we have so many holes that they will not mortgage the future?
Basically they will draft a quarterback , but if it is not the one they want, they are not going to spend a high draft pick on someone just because he is a quarterback. They are not sold on McCoy, and if they can get Luck, they will pay the price, but if they cant get Luck, they will trade down to get more pics or pick someone to help the team in one of its many holes. They will draft a quarterback some where in the draft but wont reach for one unless he is the guy they want.
You hit the nail on the head. Browns will make a charge for Luck, but if they can’t get him or Blackmon, they will trade down.
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
Pluto says Brad says Colt has had multiple concussions before this one.
That is yet another reason why the Browns must hedge their bet on Colt being the QB of the Future.
He’s referring to one from his high school days and one from his sophmore year in college. If I had to guess, I’d bet the majority of NFL players have sustained multiple concussions if you go back as far as their high school days.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 19, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
Concussions are last on my list of reasons why we must hedge any purported bet on Colt being the future.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 19, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
Indy needs football players, not another QB. I think we could work a trade to move up and gnab him. With that said, I’m not 100% sure id want to do that. More picks in this perticular draft seems like a better idea. There’s an Andrew Luck in every class…well, almost.
by redCel on Dec 19, 2011 9:48 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I see. So you’re one of those guys who believes the hype every year. He’s the second coming of John Elway because espn told you that. There will be an Andrew Luck next year. Another qb beat him out for the heisman for crying out loud. But yeah, I guess since Mel Kiper Jr. Said so
by redCel on Dec 19, 2011 2:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The Andrew Luck of last years draft, was Andrew Luck.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 19, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
…point proven?? Just an opinion though. Seems they hype a qb every year and tell you he’s jesus christ with a rocket arm (shit, tebow joke) and we’re all supposed to buy into it. (And I’m aware Tebow does not have a rocket arm for you knit pickers)
by redCel on Dec 19, 2011 4:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Indy needs football players, not another QB.
Didn’t know QBs weren’t football players. Another day, another thing learned.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 19, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t feel like that’s worth reiterating. I think the average person would get what I mean.
by redCel on Dec 19, 2011 2:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
There is no one average around here red :)
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 19, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
indy has already said they’re going to take luck. they’re going to take luck.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 19, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Here’s what I think should happen. The Browns should start Wallace Saturday at Baltimore.
He’s much fresher, not as beat up, Colt is still recovering from the concussion.
If Wallace plays well, keeps the game close, etc. (puts up another 225+ yards, limits mistakes, couple of TD drives, etc.), then I’d say that would be a good indicator. Two games, with the second one against a good defense would perhaps be enough to draw a meaningful correlation / judgement about McCoy.
If Wallace gets owned by the Ravens / stinks it up, then play McCoy in the final game against the Steelers.
If McCoy lights it up and/or or gives us a win, obviously the QB discussion will take on a different tone. Regardless, we’ll certainly have all the information needed to make a final assessment at that point.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 19, 2011 3:57 PM EST reply actions
McCoy shouldn’t play again this year regardless of what Wallace does and it has nothing to do with either’s performance. I have very little faith in McCoy but it’s almost 100% certainty he will be on the team next year. We shouldn’t play around with his health for these last two games, especially against two hungry defenses gearing up for the playoffs.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
McCoy shouldn’t play again this year
If asked six weeks ago you probably would have said the same thing.
There’s absolutely no possible rational argument to be made against what I’ve suggested.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 19, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
There’s absolutely no possible rational argument to be made against what I’ve suggested.
none? really? not a single one?
how about: the organization has made up its mind that colt sucks and they don’t play him at all? or colt’s not healthy enough yet and they don’t play him at all? or they want to give wallace reps against 2 top shelf defenses against whom colt has already played (not well)? or he’s perfectly healthy and they never want to play wallace again? or they want to see what the steelers do against colt the second time around?
should i keep going or is the point made?
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 19, 2011 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
If Wallace plays horribly against the Ravens, and Colt is cleared, healthy and ready to go the following week, he’s going to start against the Steelers. I can’t imagine any possible reason why this would not happen.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 19, 2011 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
If asked six weeks ago you probably would have said the same thing.
Actually that’s not true. I absolutely hate Wallace and have made it a point all year to say I do not want him on the roster ever. My standpoint on Colt is that I don’t see much from him and would prefer to bring someone in next year. I’ve never called for him to be benched this year for any reason until this point and that’s purely because of his health.
If Wallace gets owned by the Ravens / stinks it up, then play McCoy in the final game against the Steelers.
If McCoy lights it up and/or or gives us a win, obviously the QB discussion will take on a different tone. Regardless, we’ll certainly have all the information needed to make a final assessment at that point.
There’s absolutely no possible rational argument to be made against what I’ve suggested.
Also, I don’t think you read my statement. I’m not sure why but your comment doesn’t show that you did. I made it a point to say that I don’t believe Colt should start anymore this year because of health reasons not performance. Your argument was that he needs to play because of performance reasons.
I don’t think we will see anything in the last two games from Colt that would justify putting his health at risk. I think that’s a pretty good rational argument against what you suggested. I’m not calling for Colt to sit because I give two chits about Wallace but because I would prefer us err on the side of caution when dealing with McCoy’s health, especially because I believe he will still be on the roster next year and most likely the starter to start the year.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
Sorry if I reacted too fast, and yes, if he is still questionable I could see keeping him sidelined. But as I said above, if Wallace has a bad game in Baltimore, and Colt is cleared and ready to go the following week, I’m fairly hog certain they’ll start him that week. I can’t imagine why they wouldn’t.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 19, 2011 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
by the way, i don’t think anyone on this board, myself included, would have wanted colt benched at any time before this week.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 19, 2011 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
Frankly I find it a little disturbing that there are a bunch of people calling for him to be “benched” right after he gets concussed by James Harrison. I mean WTF? He had a pretty good game against the Steelers untilHarrison took his fucking head off with that obscene hit to the head.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 19, 2011 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
firstly, i think disturbing is far to serious of a word to use for the situation.
second, colt should not be playing until the concussion is cleared up. whether that’s “benched” or otherwise defined, he shouldn’t be on the field until he’s totally healthy.
lastly, let’s take the concussion out of it and say that colt just bruised his hand in the steelers game and everything else had happened exactly the same way (try not to freak out on that assumption). i would still argue that seeing seneca play could be a good barometer for us through which to judge colt’s (shitty?) play this season.
i hope the guy recovers fully and quickly from the concussion. the existence of the concussion, however, should not preclude us from having a serious discussion about who the browns qb is or should be or how that position should be evaluated.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 19, 2011 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
I just want Colt to be healthy. With a concussion and a bruised hand, that could easily take a player out of commission for at least a couple weeks. I see no reason to hurry Colt back to a 4-10 team with 2 games left.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
by bross09 on Dec 20, 2011 12:55 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If McCoy lights it up and/or or gives us a win, obviously the QB discussion will take on a different tone. Regardless, we’ll certainly have all the information needed to make a final assessment at that point.
Also I disagree with this. One game does not nor should it make Colt the answer. Remember Jerome? McCoy has gone year proving very little, these next two games are going to do very little to make a case for him, just as he shouldn’t be judged solely on the last two games last year.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
I just had one of those, whatchamacallits, an EPIPHANY! We should draft a QB #1. I had been on the fence but now i know. LIttle puffy clouds are floating by. . . gentle electronic music echos in my head. Yeah, ok.
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Dec 19, 2011 4:57 PM EST reply actions
I am serious, though. If RG3 is around when we draft I am all in. Barkley I am a little on the fence about. 6’1 “scrappy” “winner”? Sounds wayyyyy too familiar. A week ago I was on the BPA train but no mas.
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Dec 19, 2011 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
to be accurate, barkley is actually over 6-2.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 19, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
I seem to recall hearing that 6’2" is a padded number and that come combine time that wil be disproven.
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Dec 19, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
Well, RG3 is also 6’2." Could also be a padded number that gets disproven.
by RyanBr on Dec 19, 2011 11:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I said it when we drafted Colt, and I will say it again.
I don’t care about a QB’s height.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 19, 2011 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
QB’s height can be an asset but it is overemphasized by most people.
Aaron Rodgers is 6’ 1.5" (combine height). He’s maybe got a quarter or half inch on McCoy.
Then there’s Brees of course – the guy who just set the all time record for number of 300 yard passing games in a single season.
Brett Favre, Joe Montana, Steve Young, and Kurt Warner were all 6’2".
A QB probably needs to be around six feet / six one minimum, and from there it doesn’t make a big difference with regards to their potential.
Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees are not two of the best QBs of the last decade “despite their height”, as someone recently argued. They are great QBs because they have great talent and intangibles and developed into great passers.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 20, 2011 8:37 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks for toying with my indifference.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
by Simmsinns on Dec 19, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No, that was Kim Jong-Il
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
they are both rockstars…at least in their heads…
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I want to win the next two games more than any game since 99 except that playoff game.
How important is it to go into 2012 knowing you beat the best in your division? Think what it will be like going 0- for the division in 2011. It is a game of Emotion and Self Confidence and I want to have the players that are coming back to know they can play with the best in their division.
We win these and then we can point to progress, we lose and go 4-12 then we have regressed, and what free agents are gonna want to come here, 2nd or 3rd tier maybe.
And to the Draft Mongers, we go 6-10 we can still get our QB in the draft.
Win just give us 2 wins!
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
And to the Draft Mongers, we go 6-10 we can still get our QB in the draft.
Hope you like Blaine Gabbert.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 21, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
A couple late wins don’t carry confidence over in to the next season. Browns have already proven that theory wrong.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 21, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
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