Instant Recap: Browns "Battle" Back, Still Fall 20-14
by Chris Pokorny on Dec 24, 2011 4:23 PM EST
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PrintDespite being down 20-0 early in the second half, the Cleveland Browns "battled back" and were in position to take a potential lead against the Baltimore Ravens. It wasn't meant to be though, as Cleveland failed on a fourth-down conversion. When they tried to get the ball back one more time, the Ravens got defensive tackle Phil Taylor to jump into the neutral zone even though they probably were not going to run a play. Ouch.
That wasn't the first error the Browns made in the game. Two major errors in the first half cost them dearly. On the team's opening possession, Seneca Wallace was picked off on a 3rd-and-1 after a good start to the drive. To close out the second half, the Browns had the very definition of "poor clock management" on display. A run play with no timeouts was executed as time was winding down, so the Browns went into the half without anything on the board.
Cleveland battled back at the end of the third quarter with an 84-yard punt return by Joshua Cribbs. I don't know how Cribbs did it, because it almost looked like he hobbled his whole way to the end zone. Nonetheless, it served as somewhat of a boost to the team. Mid-way through the fourth quarter, the Browns drove the ball 80 yards for a touchdown pass to Evan Moore after an interception by Sheldon Brown.
The Browns still got the ball back for one more chance to score, but the key miscue was an short third-down throw by Wallace to Peyton Hillis on a blitz by the Ravens. If Wallace steps into that throw, Hillis easily gets the first down and the drive continues. The fourth down play to Hillis was, of course, thrown too quickly and only at the line of scrimmage.
Even though this game looked ugly with a 20-0 start for Baltimore, I think there were some improvements for Cleveland. They held Ray Rice to just 83 yards rushing, even though he had a big reception for a touchdown. In the running game, Hillis showed exactly why I want him to remain the team's featured back next season. He punished Baltimore's defense with 112 yards rushing on 24 carries; it's rare that someone goes over the century mark against Baltimore. We also got to see some youngsters like Carlton Mitchell and Jordan Cameron in action, albeit with limited production.
Cleveland faces the Steelers at home next week for the season finale. Without Ben Roethlisberger, the Steelers shut out the Rams 27-0 today.
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Colts won.
Rams lost.
Vikings won.
Browns lost.
?
by shep615 on Dec 24, 2011 4:33 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
What is so crazy about it. The Rams like Bradford, and the Browns have the best ammo to move up. The Rams want Blackmon and would want to move down only a few picks. It’s not crazy at all.
Colts are well in the clear for the top pick due to strength of schedule I’m almost positive (assuming they and STL end up with 2 wins).
Yup and the Colts are playing way better than Jax now. Also think the Colts vets don’t want Luck. They’d obviously rather draft for today than tomorrow so they have incentive to win. We just gotta hope SF has something to play for against the Rams next week so the Rams don’t get a fluke win.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 24, 2011 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
How awkward for Luck will it be if he does go to Indy with Peyton in that locker room?
I don’t like it when a player says “I won’t play [insert team]” but if a situation ever called for it, this would be it.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 24, 2011 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
If you’re Reggie Wayne, Jeff Saturday, D Freeney, etc., do you want Luck? Hells no. You want the number two position so you can draft a stud player that can help now. Mannings got 2-3 years of solid play left an dthose guys don’t have much longer. You gotta think they’d rather not have to take Luck and are going to be fired up to beat Jax, which is a worse team, by far, on paper anyway.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 24, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
That is a win-win for us.
Jax wins, we move up a slot. Indy wins, we have a shot to trade with St. Louis.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 24, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t like it when a player says "I won’t play [insert team]" but if a situation ever called for it, this would be it.
Luck is on record just last week saying to the Indy press he would be just fine with sitting and learning behind Manning.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 25, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
You know what they’re SOS Is? I doubt it. Also what if the Colts win next week – I think they play the Jags.
I can add, so you shouldn’t doubt it. All you do is add the wins of the opponents of both IND and STL. Indy is far enough below that STL can’t catch them if they both end up with 2 wins.
2 teams in that division were .500 going into this week and SF is really good.
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You’re assuming the Colts lose next week. That’s not a safe assumption. Jax is playing way worse.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 24, 2011 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
I would rather have Blackmon than Luck.
Yeah, I said it.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 24, 2011 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
So Luck has the same issues as McCoy did this year? Unless if Luck is a miracle worker at getting the receivers to quit dropping balls I don’t foresee a big difference in their potential results.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 24, 2011 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
Luck and Colt are worlds apart with accuracy/touch. Like come on man, stop making excuses.
by Johnnypronto on Dec 25, 2011 1:35 AM EST up reply actions
oh yeah, I forgot you are a Colt apologist and Luck certainly will do no much better than Colt.
Trust me, I was on the Colt train too, but to seriously suggest there is no huge difference is ludicrous imo.
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They sure have. Something else has changed the last two games too!
by RyanBr on Dec 25, 2011 8:57 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Blackmon will make Colt look a little better but Luck would make all of our receivers look MUCH better.
by macdowellm03 on Dec 25, 2011 2:07 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
EXACTLY!
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At this point I’m about ready to step off the Colt train, but I’ll say this in his favor: I’m not sure even Luck will make our receivers look better. They’ve been doing they’re best BE impersonation all year. Give Colt some of those drops back and he doesn’t look so bad.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I’m trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Ricky Henderson
I don’t know with 100% certainty if Luck would make our receivers look a lot better, but I am positive he would at least look better than Colt with them.
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There is no definitive proof that this will occurr. In fact it is possible that Luck would make our receivers look worse.
Be careful when you fall in love with one player. You are bound to have your heart broken.
it’s also possible I drop dead from a brain Hemorrage in an hour. Not at all likely…you want to bet on it?
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Not sure the relevance, but sure I’ll take the bet.
C’mon. My point is be careful of the hype. We see what we want see.
I think that it is rational to try not to buy into the hype, but I just think the speculation into the possibility that Luck makes our receivers worse is not at all a likely scenario
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They might want Kalil, isn’t their line atrocious?
by macdowellm03 on Dec 25, 2011 2:03 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
They have a couple of high picks invested at tackle. And I thought Kalil was a package deal with Barkley, so wouldn’t he also be going back to school?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
The QB obsession continues…. You can’t count the mistakes the other members of this team, including the coaching staff that cost the Browns a win today. Seneca INT was horrible, no question. The penalties were bad today. But Shurmur looks like he doesn’t belong on the sidelines.
I can hear Holmgren now " Yeah in hindsight we probably should of brought in a O coordinator to help Pat out"
The QB obsession continues….
Crazy people. They act like QB is the most important position, by several orders of magnitude, on the football field. It’s like crazy.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 24, 2011 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I am sure the tongue is in the cheek. But you must admit this board is overboard with the QB. I understand the importance of the position, but this team needs a lot that the QB alone won’t solve.
A good QB makes everything look better.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 24, 2011 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
Unless Luck becomes Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, or Tom Brady that’s not really true. Most QBs in the league struggle with their team when they don’t have a solid supporting cast. There’s no guarantee that Luck will be any better than Colt or the other QBs we’ve had with the lackluster amount of talent in this offense.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 24, 2011 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
Seneca has almost been a better QB with the same lackluster amount of talent. I’d say its the closest thing ever to a lock that Luck will be much, much better.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I don’t know. Newton is putting up monster numbers for a 6 win team. And in his last 5 games he hasn’t thrown for over 280. Hasn’t thrown for 300 since week 4, threw for 400 in his first two starts. AY/A is all over the place, from a couple games down near 3 to a couple up around 12. ANY/A probably hurt by the fact that he gets sacked fairly often.
The thing that excites me about Luck is his ability to read a defense. He goes to the line with a couple of plays, reads, and calls the right one. He’ll need to adjust that to NFL d’s that like to disguise, but he’s already off to a great start. If he can adapt, you’re looking at Peyton Manning with athleticism.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
They are different types of players and won’t be comparable. at all.
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In one game against one of the leagues crappier defenses? Come on, rufio. I thought you had better judgement.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 25, 2011 12:23 AM EST up reply actions
First of all, I don’t appreciate that passive-aggressive personal attack. You want to attack my opinion? Fine.
Seneca was 57% complete today with a 1:1 TD:INT ratio. That’s awful close to Colt’s 57% completion percentage and 1.27:1 ratio. Seneca’s 7.1 ANY/A is actually way better than Colt’s 4.7 ANY/A on the year.
My “judgement” is just fine: Colt hasn’t shown us enough this year, we’ve suffered virtually no dropoff when replacing him with Seneca Wallace, and Andrew Luck is almost universally regarded as one of the best QB prospects ever.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Honest question here, as I jumped off the Colt train week 7 or 8. Seneca has had two things that on the whole, Colt has not: 1) WR catching again 2) Peyton Hillis. So, while I completely see the comparison statistically and efficiency wise, I’m also aware that situations were a bit different.
The question: are the drops the result of bad throws/timing and then adding to this players psyching themselves out after the drops start (I’m thinking Little in particular here) or am I (others) reading into this incorrectly? Because a part of me really thinks that while Colt isn’t the QBOTF, it’s not exactly completely fair to compare under different circumstances (particularly Peyton). Of course, I note that we haven’t had nearly as many concussions from WR corp in the last two weeks, have we?
WR catching again
Can’t separate that from the QB. Seneca appears to be throwing more catchable balls.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 25, 2011 1:45 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t care if it’s “fair” or not, other QBs look good and even great despite having a similar drop rate from their targets. Many do very well despite playing alongside backs much worse than Hillis.
The fact that this is even a debate is kind of proving my point: Colt has not been leaps and bounds better than Seneca Wallace (who we all know is not a starting QB in the league) this year, and that’s an enormous problem.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
The fact that this is even a debate is kind of proving my point: Colt has not been leaps and bounds better than Seneca Wallace (who we all know is not a starting QB in the league) this year, and that’s an enormous problem.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
Personal attack? My apologies rufio. I didn’t realize you were that sensitive. I didn’t realize my comment was that offensive.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 25, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
BTW whatever the prospects are on Luck, if he’s really that great there’s no way he’s going to drop down to where we’ll likely be with the 4th pick. We’d have to trade for him, and it’s not worth giving up what we’ll likely have to give up (both 1st rounders and any combination of a couple picks from the 2nd through 5th round.)
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 25, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
Cardinals were actually playing quite well against good opponents in the recent weeks heading into that game.
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C’mon!!! Seneca almost better? He’s been the same as Mccoy was! Sad thing is, he has 9 years experience in the west coast. Now, tell me, how does your comment support Luck being much, much better?
My comment didn’t attempt to support Luck as being much better, it made the safe assumption that he would be. Luck is the safest QB prospect in a long, long time. So far the only two people that I know in the entire football universe that disagree with that are TLP and Phil Simms. If you want to go down that road, its a whole different ballgame.
Seneca has been almost better than Colt McCoy in that he hasn’t been remarkably worse than Colt. This should be incredibly dissappointing to McCoy loyalists because we know Seneca is bad. Very bad. If Colt isn’t much better than “very bad” well, then he’s not very good.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Honestly seeing Seneca do just as well as convinced me Colt’s not the guy here. /tears
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The only thing, and I mean the only thing, I’m not sold on Luck is his arm strength. I think he has enough, but he doesn’t have a laser.
That is big time nit-picking.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 26, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
If we draft a QB in the first round, its not like thats the ONLY pick we get. Theres still six more rounds to improve the supporting cast
by macdowellm03 on Dec 25, 2011 2:10 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
And free agency.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Tom heckert doesn’t know what this is.
by PaduaDSP on Dec 26, 2011 12:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I’m still waiting on the Free Agent that we had to have, that has played well.
So many people wanted Ray Edwards, and that dude has sucked this season.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 26, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
Jason Babin and his 18 sacks would have been nice. He was one of three defensive ends last year I would have been fine with the Browns going after. Ray Edwards and Charles Johnson being the other two.
Jason Babin has only been good under Jim Washburn. I doubt he would have been allowed to play the Wide-9 here. He is the defensive version of Brandon Lloyd.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 26, 2011 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
why not? oh yes I forgot we don’t alter our schemes in order to take advantage of a particular players skill set. I mean honestly we don’t need a guy capable of getting 18 sacks on this team? we couldn’t find a way to make that work for us?
Did you miss the part about Jim Washburn?
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 26, 2011 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
got it, it’s impossible for the Browns to improve the talent level of the roster through free agency.
it also doesn’t hurt that he has Trent Colt next to him this year.
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I suppose if I said Jonathon Joseph or any WR to replace Brian Robiskie you would poo poo those ideas as well. I mean afterall Tom Heckert said we were “just fine” at WR coming into this season.
and Heckert I believe admitted he was wrong about his WRs.
And maybe there wasn’t a guy they wanted to target in free agency. You really think they were going to say “well, we are not 100% satisfied at WR but no one on the market is worth the $$”? This is cleveland, the media will deride them for being cheap bastards. Let’s remember the context of his words when dealing with the cleveland media.
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Don’t point that finger at me. I hated our WR’s.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 28, 2011 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
I blame the Seneca INT on bad play calling. Half a yard and you want the guy to make a long sideline throw? Just run it GDI
The playcall there is a read off of the flat player, it’s not a designed throw to the flat. I would have liked to see us run, too, but the play itself wasn’t to allow pressure, take 5 minutes to make the read, and then loft a softball up for the defense.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
He probably was. Regardless of what protection we were in, you have to protect inside-out. Even if he has to stand in there and take a hit from an untouched rusher from the outside, Seneca has to make a quicker read and get the ball out before the corner can come up and make that play. It should connect with the receiver so he can catch it and turn and run upfield, not as the receiver is waiting for it to get to him on the sideline. The soft throw, the pressure, the slow read, it all contributed to it.
The play should have worked. Its a situation when fans blame the playcalling when it doesn’t work, but every team in the league has that in for 3rd and 1, and we’ve run it several times and it’s worked and no one has said a damn thing. We’re not a 22 personnel, pound the rock type of team. We’re going to throw there sometimes.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
take the sack, not throw the softball off your back foot.
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Jersey looks pretty good
by lightninmcqueen on Dec 24, 2011 10:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yea of course this one was really hard to take but I’m happy with how we’re playing of late instead of blowing up at the end like 2010.
As long as we have players that are staying competitive even during a time when in hindsight it will be better for our team to lose then that’s still a step in the right direction.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 24, 2011 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
Good to see us competitive, small amount of solace in the improving draft pick. Mistakes and penalties are the #1 thing coaches should look to correct next year. A QB could really help us.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Add play calling to that list.
by Monsters of the Midway on Dec 24, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
I know it doesn’t look this way, but I thought the playcalling was very good today against a tough raven D.
Clearly the situation right before halftime needed to be handled better, but it looked to me like Shurmur wasn’t happy. He didn’t want that run play to happen—at least not right at that point in time.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I’m looking at his body of work this season. I think there’s room for a lot of improvement; however, I agree that Shurmur called a pretty good game against the Ravens. Unfortunately that doesn’t cut it when the team’s margin of error is so low.
by Monsters of the Midway on Dec 25, 2011 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
I think the mistakes are the result of having the youngest team with a rookie head coach. I think they need some veteran coaching help on the offense to improve those areas. Just playing more will help them too.
The guards are already starting to look decent with more PT. They have decent physical skills, just need to keep figuring out who to block (and exactly how to block them) in the zone runs and pass pro.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I really think Shurmur may not have any clue at all. There was some embarrassing coaching going on out there today. Glad to see the team didn’t give up against a quality opponent on the road though.
by Roger Dorn on Dec 24, 2011 4:38 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I look forward most to seeing his quote about the end of the 1st half plus why we used the early 2nd half TO’s.
He already had his presser conference. He said it was a communication error and they did not want to run there.
The early 2nd half TOs were because they were running out of time on the 25 second clock.
I think they may have had problems with the comm equipment
Too many miscommunications and whatnot over the course of the season to not think a lot of the problems lie with the coaching and preparedness.
I really wish we’d cut our losses and hire a competent head coach along with an OC. Never going to happen as long as Holgren is in charge.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
Sarcasm?
"You are the worst villains in football, your evil plan never ceases."-Mooncamping
by discoinferno083 on Dec 24, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
I totally agree.
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He already had his presser conference. He said it was a communication error and they did not want to run there.
Basically he said, “Hey Im giving you lip service by saying its ‘my responsibility’ but it’s really Seneca’s fault.”
by jonnyphoenix on Dec 24, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
Well now I’m not sure, he’s saying they could have caught them off-guard…popped an easy one…Shurmur was saying clock it while he called the play…
Probably should wait for the transcripts.
Pat Shurmur will take the fall for the first-half screwup with fans. He didn’t call the handoff to Peyton Hillis with time running out. Shurmur blamed himself for not communicating better to Seneca Wallace to clock the ball. Bottom line: It’s all a learning experience.
I’m guessing that was the “What are you doing?” part of Shurmur screaming after the play. Plus, no one on offense looked like they knew they should be spiking the ball.
Got to improve on this.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 24, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
I wish I could f—-ing suck at things very badly and say, “hey, it’s cool. I’m learning.” fire the piece of shiiiiii already.
"You are the worst villains in football, your evil plan never ceases."-Mooncamping
by discoinferno083 on Dec 24, 2011 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
So you would fire Pat Shurmur because Seneca Wallace audibled to a running play?
Is this the same board that went ape shit when it was reported (falsely BTW) that McCoy “wasn’t allowed” to audible?
The all out hate for Shurmur is really out of place.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 24, 2011 8:31 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Your Quarterback shouldn’t need to be told to not run the ball with 20 seconds and no timeouts. Made it even worse that he didn’t try to clock the ball after the run.
That is basic football. That’s on Seneca.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 25, 2011 12:57 AM EST up reply actions
That may be true – but that looked like the poorest coached team I have seen in a while. The clock management and play calling was absolutely horrible.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
Yea, I mean Pat Shurmur didn’t jump offsides, but these things are all symptoms of an ill-prepared team.
I agree. Taylor made a rookie mistake: a bad mistake, but a rookie one.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
I heard the same. I’m possibly the biggest anti Pat guy here but the run at the end of the 1st half is all on Seneca.
It’s on Holmgren.
If Shurmur called the play, it was Holmgren’s guy.
If Seneca called the play, it was Holmgren’s guy.
Add those facts to the “Nobody saw the play on Colt” B.S. and we have a whole sack of trash that needs to be removed from the building (again).
Is it Christmas or Hyperbole day?
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 25, 2011 12:58 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Just a regular day in the Cleveland fandom universe. Fire everyone if you make a mistake or don’t make the playoffs every single year, including your first.
too much eggnog.
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yep. I dunno if you heard, but Holmgren actually phoned in to seneca’s headset to call that run play.
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he hand picked Seneca to start and either he or Shurmur wanted to put Seneca in that situation? The only reason we are even playing Seneca is out of necessity because of that asshole Harrison.
It is utterly moronic to blame Shurmur/Holmgren for putting Seneca in that situation in the first place because I doubt either one would have wanted him starting right now over Colt if Colt hadn’t been injured.
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Stop missing the point.
Holmgren handpicked the player and the coach.
In this particular instance:
The player deemed good enough to be a backup by Holmgren couldn’t manage a two minute drill.
The coach deemed good enough to be a head coach in the NFL by Holmgren couldn’t manage his player during a two minute drill.
You seem to be implying that this was just human error.
I’m stating that it is yet another data point that Holmgren’s strategic decisions have thus far been poor. These guys are in over their heads.
Add Colt McCoy to the data point set against Holmgren too. He has yet to work out, especially against AFC North rivals!
Stop missing the point.
that it’s always all Holmgren’s fault? I didn’t ignore it, I just think it’s ill informed.
good enough to be a backup by Holmgren couldn’t manage a two minute drill.
how many backups in the league CAN manage a good two minute drill?
couldn’t manage his player during a two minute drill.
Not for lack of trying. the message just didn’t get so Seneca.
You seem to be implying that this was just human error.
If it wasn’t human error, what else was it? Seneca made an error. he should take responsibility. He is a backup, but even backups generally should know to call a pass there and if not, it’s on them, not the team president.
These guys are in over their heads.
This is certainly true. They gave Shurmur too much out of the gate with him being playcaller/HC/OC.\
Add Colt McCoy to the data point set against Holmgren too. He has yet to work out,
You are going to criticize a front office because they drafted a 3rd round QB who didn’t pan out? Fire AJ Smith, Whitehurst never worked out either!
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And I don’t buy this “equipment failure” bullshit for a second. We’ve seen this horrid decision making and playcalling all season long.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
Did someone blame it on the equipment?
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 24, 2011 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
I’m as big a critic of Pat as anyone but I can’t blame that first half end on him alone. The lions share of blame goes to Seneca. He’s a QB,; it’s his freakin job to know the clock and to know to spike it there (like every idiot on their couch knew). Add in the fact that he is a 9 year vet and that play is inexcusable. You cant always blame the coach for an idiotic play byte QB.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 24, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
Damn straight. Wallace looked at the sideline like he had no idea what to do after the play.
Funny, everyone in my living room knew.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 24, 2011 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
Looks like the Bengals will get in the playoffs with a win next week. Or an Oakland loss. But I think Cincy owns the tiebreaker with Oak.
Cin, Ten, Oak, SD, Den and NYJ could end up with 9. Since SD and Oak play each other though there could be 5 teams that end up with 9 wins, right?
Yeah, you’re right. But Bengals have 9 and are in with a win. Cincy beat Oak and Tenn, so they’re both out of the wild card. But they lost to Denver. Not sure how the Jets fall in to this. Next week is gunna be exciting.
Pretty sure SD is out. They look like crap right now. Lions handling them.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 24, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve been waiting to see a game like this from Hillis all year. Too bad we couldn’t get him more involved in the passing game though.
Both Tony Grossi and Daniel Wolf have basically said its a lock that we aren’t bringing him back. So I am very, very optimistic that we will keep him. Those two are usually wrong about everything.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 24, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
At a minimum it would relieve pressure from Colt. It could be the difference of half a second or so to throw the ball which means a lot.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 24, 2011 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
Why do you think Little is suddenly catching the ball now? Could be a coincidence, or could be better thrown, more catchable balls . . . I think the latter is the more likely explanation.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 25, 2011 1:51 AM EST up reply actions
Some people just have to find a way to blame Colt for everything..
by johnf34 on Dec 25, 2011 9:59 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And some just have to find a way to say nothing is his fault…
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 25, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed. One thing people might not have noticed was that we motioned him out wide and saw that Ray Lewis followed him out. We capitalized on this later with the same motion and pass to Ogbonnaya.
The defense largely dictates when we will throw to Peyton. We tried running several screens for him but the ravens were all over us.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
That was a great play by Ogbonnaya. 2nd straight week without MH getting a snap if I remember correctly???
Hardesty? I thought his calf was still busted.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Hypothetically, since you asked….Probably Holmgren. He’ll see the rising anger and frustration with Shurmur and ‘retire’ leaving us in ‘good hands’ before he is forced to remove Shurmur himself or admit he made a huge mistake. This will, of course, be after he tries and hires assistants for Shurmur to basically do the job he was brought in here to do himself to mask his incompetence. However, you cant fool the players, and they’ll know quite well that Shurmur is an empty headset. In the end, after he’s gone…in interviews Holmgren will imply the media and the unfair expectations of the fans ran him out and he actually wanted to see the job through…
by jonnyphoenix on Dec 24, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I think Holmgrens going to quit and leave 30 million on the table.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 24, 2011 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
I dont think either is ‘likely,’ or ‘going’ to happen…just how IF one of them were to ‘quit’ how and why I think it would happen.
by jonnyphoenix on Dec 24, 2011 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
Can we quit with this kind of stuff?
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 24, 2011 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Seriously. It gets old.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 24, 2011 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
You can ask palcal to stop, but experience from LGT says that, no, not it won’t.
by themadlibs on Dec 24, 2011 10:25 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
It’s not that I want him to stop posting or anything like that, but since when has anyone in the NFL quit?
Not to mention a first year head coach and a De Facto owner? It’s just annoying.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 25, 2011 1:04 AM EST up reply actions
Trolling.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 25, 2011 1:53 AM EST up reply actions
Answering a troll only fuels the fire
by macdowellm03 on Dec 25, 2011 2:25 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Hopefully I’m not the only one who looks at some usernames and skips the comment. Btw I think we’re on the right track, we just barely left the station.
by macdowellm03 on Dec 25, 2011 2:33 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
And I will watch as someone else snatches them up right away.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 25, 2011 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
Yep, that’s exactly whats going to happen. You should probably go ahead and find a new team to root for. Thanks for coming
P.S. Were you there for Touchdown Squirrel this season? I was. Didn’t you find that sad, that the current regime and ownership has screwed this thing up so bad that what was left of the crowd ROOTED FOR A SQUIRREL TO HIT THE ENDZONE?!?!
I expect nothing less from leadership than to figure out strategy and tactics that makes us competitive with the roster that we have. NOT trying to place a system in place that the roster cannot execute, waiting for new guys who can execute in that system. The former is called coaching. The latter is called rebuilding. We’re in yet another endless rebuilding cycle. The manager that is in there right now, Shurmur, isn’t even showing potential!
I was there for Touchdown Squirrel, and I would’ve cheered for the little critter if we were heading towards 16-0 or 0-16. It was a fun moment at the game.
by Legoman0721 on Dec 26, 2011 12:00 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Actually, that was the only good thing about that game. That game was absolutely miserable with the weather and the Browns laying down to the Ravens. At least Touchdown Squirrel gave us something to cheer for that day. Never really knew how annoying Ravens fans could be. One of the Ravens fan was blocking the exit when my wife and I were trying to leave (before the Browns TD). Couldn’t believe her audacity to block the entrance and mock us leaving when we did not say a word to her. Talk about no class. Wish someone would have given her a old time “Muni” hello. Oh well, it is going to be even sweeter when our Brownies stomp on the Ravens junk in the future…..Sigh.
"The rush of battle is a potent and almost lethal addiction, for war is a drug."
So you know that squirrel was euthanized, cremated and buried under the fifty yard line. Anything else you want to say about the squirrel? Let’s just try an remember the good times, OK?
For all the Luck love gets, I find it hard to believe he’ll have anything resembling the season Newton has had this year. I didn’t think Newton would be good at all but wow he has been unreal.
I’m not suggesting he’ll throw for 20 plus and run for 15 plus every year but he seems incredibly legit to me.
Definitely legit. A combination of Vick, Big Ben and Tebow’s running style. I’d take him over Luck right now.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 24, 2011 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
I’m interested to see how he does next season.
If there is one thing for sure in the NFL, it’s that teams adapt. Look at the difference in Vick from this season to last. Teams will now have something to go on.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 24, 2011 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but if Cam can stay on par with how Peyton played at the beginning of his career then Newton can overlook it. It’s definitely a stretch, but no one expected this kind of performance from Newton with all the obstacles he faced this season. There’s a good chance we could be seeing the next QB stud developing for the next decade.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 24, 2011 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
Newton still has to develop a lot mentally. Physically, there is no question about his ability. Some of those key mistakes have to be eliminated and he’ll have to be better at anticipating and reading defenses to continue this onslaught.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I can’t know for sure because I haven’t seen him play, but a problem a lot of young guys have is that they play loose and good until they throw a couple of INTs, then they get tentative and over think everything and end up just getting worse and worse. Cam seems to have a great ability to shrug off the mistakes and keep playing his game.
As far as the play going into halftime… I think it was a good play call, the players just didn’t know what they were doing. They were mulling around when they should have been rushing up to the line to spike the ball.
Does anyone know, on the 4th and 5, was that a designed play to Peyton or did Wallace just get too jumpy and throw it too soon without making the reads?
To me it seemed as if it was his first read. He threw it quickly.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 24, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
OK SORRY TO DO THIS BUT.......
For any of you that have kids under 8, sendacallfromsanta dot com will send your child a personalized video if you want to take the time. They send it through email. Again sorry for doing this here, but just incase anyone wants to do it.
I have personally checked it out and it works and it is a safe website. Sorry again, but just thinking of the little ones
Bahumbug! :o)
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 24, 2011 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
If RG3 doesn't come out for the draft
I have to admit, if we also don’t trade up for Luck, I really don’t see any other QBs that we can get that would help us big time and would be worth a 1st round pick. I’d say draft Blackmon and hope that Richardson’s draft status falls and that the Falcons lose enough so our pick from them will be high enough.
Cut the team some slack
We’re starting rookies at so many positions in a new system implemented with no offseason. This team is going to take more time to get it together, live with it and don’t be so impatient. Chances are next season Colt will be better, Shurmur will be better and Hillis will be better. Our record will be better.
Colt is the answer, winning is the question...
by Skaughtto on Dec 24, 2011 5:25 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Shurmur went 0-3 vs, the Harbaugh brothers this year. Do you really think Shurmur will improve enough as a coach in the next 3 years to consistently beat a Harbaugh?
Jim Harbaugh has taken a team that went 5-11 last year to 11-3 this year. How long are you going to give Shurmur to get to 11 or 12 wins?
Harbaugh Harbaugh Harbaugh………………
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
SF has had a few very solid drafts in a row and as much as I wanted him to succeed, Mike Singletary was a terrible head coach. All SF was missing was a good coach and solid QB play and Alex Smith finally progressed to at least solid.
This. SF had some great drafts, including this years. Aldon Smith is the shiz.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 24, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
That dude is nasty.
Props to Dorn. Really wanted him last season IIRC.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 24, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
I swear to God, every single week you go on and on with Harbaugh. I am still waiting to see any evidence of him having any intrest in coming to Cleveland. I’ll save you the trouble. There was none.
You might as well go on and on about Belichick, at least he was here.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 24, 2011 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
Anyone who’s spent some time on LGT should know that palcal is more of a troll than an actual poster.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
He’s alive!
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I lurk rufio. Still in SoKorea, so the time zone difference hinders my following. As will spending all of Jan and Feb in Thailand/Borneo.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
I hope you’re doing well out there, woog.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Thanks. 5 months paid vacation a year, I may never leave.
It should go without saying, but I really enjoy your contributions to this site, as you raise the discourse inestimably. Lots of threads spent searching “rufio” to read those comments.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
Well it’s good to see a fellow Savage disciple.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 25, 2011 1:05 AM EST up reply actions
Of course I should move on, and I have. It’s nice to see that at least one other person doesn’t think I’m crazy. That being said, I’m very optimistic about Heckert. Patience people!
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Dec 25, 2011 1:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Of course I should move on, and I have.
You were nothing with Savage when compared to Cleveland Frowns & Mangini. Wow! And I liked Mangini (my negative feelings on Savage are well known), but man that got old quick. Thought of you as someone who defended the past a little more rationally.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 25, 2011 1:57 AM EST up reply actions
I totally agree.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Patience people!
Seriously.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 25, 2011 1:57 AM EST up reply actions
While I have disagreed with you and Bernie in the past, Savage was easily our best gm so far. We can’t fully judge Heckert, but it’s nice to know even kwoog can get behind Heckert.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
At least in Thailand you’ll get to see ping pong shows.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 25, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
Good to see you kwoog.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 25, 2011 1:55 AM EST up reply actions
Jim Harbaugh also had a lot more talented football team to work with. I can’t remember the numbers but during this past weeks Monday night game the ESPN announcers were talking about how many players they’ve got that were selected in the first 2 or 3 rounds compared to other teams is significantly higher.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 24, 2011 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
They have 8 first rounders on offense alone.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 25, 2011 1:10 AM EST up reply actions
In fairness, that stat gets overplayed — some of those first rounders are others’ trash/flops.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 25, 2011 1:58 AM EST up reply actions
The only one that’s really others’ trash is BE. Smith is their trash that they could never put the right pieces around/get a good HC around. The rest of the guys are guys like Iupati, Joe Staley, and Vernon Davis who were certainly not trash.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Definitely more than one.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 25, 2011 1:59 AM EST up reply actions
And they are basically still running Singletary’s system. Even though Harbaugh is a “West Coast” guy, he has not really been running that offense. The talk amongst 49ers fans is that Harbaugh is out-Singletarying Singletary.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 26, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
49ers are going to get hammered in the Playoffs once they play one of the big boys (Saints – Packers).
That offense straight sucks in the Red Zone. They have kicked something like 45 field goals.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 26, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
Akers set some kind of 49er record this year. I think points for kicker.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 26, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
I think the 49ers have a prayer of hanging with NO for 3 quarters if they are at home. If they have to play in LA they will get crushed.
I think the Saints trounce them anywhere.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 26, 2011 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
H&H have had 2 years and this team has shown very little improvement (if any). As far as I can tell in those 2 years they have drafted 3 quality players and done absolutely nothing in free agency. Our special teams has gone from one of the best in the league to below average at best. While our D has gone from one of the worst to below average and the O hasn’t changed a bit. So at the current pace we only need to be patient for another 15 years.
Our defense has done far better than you give them credit for.
by Legoman0721 on Dec 25, 2011 9:41 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
6th in the NFL in points allowed is below average?
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 25, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
I’m gonna go ahead and say that’s pretty good!
by redCel on Dec 25, 2011 1:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
6th in the NFL in points allowed is below average?
My favorite reaction to this stat is that it is because teams don’t need to score on us, as if NFL teams just give up scoring at 20 points every game. WRs, RBs and QBs just stop trying and don’t care about their stats.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 25, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
The old “they stopped trying to score!” excuse.
Classic.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 25, 2011 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
Cheering for the Seahawks. Not much talent there, but they fight.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Dec 24, 2011 7:19 PM EST reply actions
Shurmur sucks.
"You are the worst villains in football, your evil plan never ceases."-Mooncamping
by discoinferno083 on Dec 24, 2011 7:27 PM EST reply actions
WTF? Since you’ve already admitted you don’t pay attention to the draft could you maybe watch or read about the players before making stupid predictions? Or are you just assuming white QBs are good for two more games than black one?
by HenryDawg on Dec 25, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I hope so.
He obviously should get at least 2 years…but if someone asked me: “Can you name anything specifically about Pat Shumur this year that indicates to you …THIS is the guy, this is the coach who is going to take you to the super bowl?”
Honestly, at this point I can’t think of anything that stands out.
by jonnyphoenix on Dec 25, 2011 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
As much as we all complain about it, Shurmur’s play calling has been praised by several different commentators and rufio. They all know more about football than I do, so I’ll trust their judgment.
by Legoman0721 on Dec 25, 2011 11:19 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Honestly, I haven’t seen anything that makes me go “wow, Super Bowl right now.” I’ve liked the offense in general except for the fact that we are so bad at executing major parts of it. Whether you want to blame it on players, a lack of training/minicamps, or the coach for not putting our players in position to win that’s up to you. I think it’s all three at times.
He knows what he’s doing on offense, the players seem to play hard for him despite us being terrible and there not being much in it for them, he fits extremely well into our organization, and he lets Jauron do his thing with the defense. He knows how to coach winning football, but he clearly has a lot to prove as head coach.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I think its like anything in life, the more you do it, the easier it gets and the faster you can do it. I’m guessing there’s a lot of thinking going on in the offense but given more time it will become more second nature. The QBs and the receivers will start to make the same reads and adjustments just because they understand the system better and have been doing it longer. This is one reason I wouldn’t mind if we had to give Colt another year.
The problem is you have to look good enough at some point to develop that “second nature” aspect of it. Either you are a first round pick or a big contract guy or you are playing well, otherwise you might be on your way out.
Colt has shown me enough to make it so that someone else has to take the job from him, but not enough for me to say the job is permanently his.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
the players seem to play hard for him despite us being terrible and there not being much in it for them
I saw a team yesterday that was down 17-0 that did not give up. If they were over Shurmur, they would have.
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"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
I agree. They have at least bought in. Shurmur just imo has way too many duties and not enough talent to work with.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Can you really say that about any coach? Unless if a coach already has Super Bowl experience, then how does one ever really know?
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 25, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
I know a lot of people are bashing Shurmur but if you look at the overall talent on this team, its youth, and the fact that he’s a first year head coach you would have to admit they’ve played well above their abilities. They’ll work out the mistakes and a couple more drafts, plus all the youngsters hitting their prime we have a lot of good stuff to look forward to. The record doesn’t reflect it but we have stayed in almost every game this year. I saw numbers on the D Line I haven’t seen all year and those guys played well too. Greg Little has been an absolute stud the last 2 games. Add a speedster to him and Norwood and you have a solid receiving core. I think if we can find some patience we’re really building a team that can win long term. I’m looking forward to the next few years because I think this team is finally finding some solid footing to build on. It’s just going to take some time.
I choose to be an optimist on Xmas. Little caught the ball extremely well today and Moore has value. This offense gets alot better with the HR threat at WR. Hillis has showed that we need to sign him. Jauron and DQwell keep this band aid defense going. Merry Xmas to all, and hopes that someday soon the Browns stop putting coal in our stockings.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
Hard to overemphasize our need for a QB after watching this one. Every week, that is the biggest difference between us and the other team, and there really isn’t even a close second (and this is despite Wallace being worlds better than McCoy). I also think the wide receivers get a bad rap. I’m fairly hog certain Brady would do fine with MoMass, Little, Norwood, Moore and Cribbs.
Also, the Shurmur hate is unreal. 15 games, no NFL starting QB on the roster, no offseason, and we’re still a couple of fluke plays away from respectable (1st Cincy Game, botched field goal, blah blah). How one treats Shurmur is a perfect litmus test to gauge whether you understand football (and the Necessity of consistency and stability), or are just a reactionary, impatient complainer.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Dec 25, 2011 12:46 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
Boom. This is pretty much it.
Merry Christmas DBNers, thanks for all the great football talk this year.
by HenryDawg on Dec 25, 2011 1:12 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
The Browns could use a tall WR that runs good routes. I think people don’t quite understand how a QB’s accuracy is key in classic WCO. It isn’t about WR’s making plays FOR the catch. It is WR’s being able to run a complex route and the QB to throw the ball in there while the WR tries to grind out yac. You see why Little is so ideal of potential in this system.
Frankly, I find this system hard on a QB. Not many teams run it pure anymore. You really need a Drew Brees or Andrew Luck type. It is why Holmgren may take a 2nd/3rd round qb anyway if we can’t trade up for Luck. Gotta keep drafting to you hit one.
by Johnnypronto on Dec 25, 2011 1:49 AM EST up reply actions
Not many teams run it pure anymore.
This is horsesh*t regurgitated from Mike Lombardi — there is no such thing as a “pure” West Coast offense. Plenty of teams run the West Coast offense with great success.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 25, 2011 2:04 AM EST up reply actions
I’m fairly hog certain Brady would do fine with MoMass, Little, Norwood, Moore and Cribbs.
Brady/Belichek would turn Cribbs into a very good weapon.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 25, 2011 2:01 AM EST up reply actions
With the exception of “Wallace being worlds better than McCoy”, I agree with all of this. FWIW, I see those two as essentially even, with the two having different strengths. I think McCoy has more upside, but not much more. We need a QB and we don’t have one.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 25, 2011 2:02 AM EST up reply actions
You’re probably right about them, but I just don’t “see” anything that McCoy does even average. I have zero confidence when he drops back to pass. I can’t say that about Wallace.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
Too exciting. I’m of the mind that it’d offer the farm for him (both this year’s firsts, and next’s, even). I actually don’t think this team is as bereft of talent as others, I have confidence that Heckert can find value late and will be able to sign quality free agents.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
I am kinda on board with this. I would be satisfied with RG3 but would consider trading a lot for Luck.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
This, This, and This.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
reactionary, impatient complainers
…group polarization, schticks, trolls.
These tend to be the loudest voices around here… also the most common reason for not visiting this board.
"A drug person can learn to cope with things like seeing their dead grandmother crawling up their leg with a knife in her teeth. But no one should be asked to handle this trip." Thompson
These tend to be the loudest voices around here…
You haven’t been around very long if you think this.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 25, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
Shurmur is a perfect litmus test to gauge whether you understand football (and the Necessity of consistency and stability), or are just a reactionary, impatient complainer.
I don’t think that’s really fair to assert that if you are less than impressed with Pat Shurmur that you do not ‘understand football.’ That sounds a lot like the same argument we had with Mangini…you know…the ’let’s just stick with him him because it is better to have ‘consistency’ and ‘stability,’ argument. Basically, theres really not much to recommend him other than the simple fact that it’s not conducive to long-term success to keep changing coaches. I think everyone mostly understands that.
However, not changing for ‘not changing’s’ sake…that’s hardly a ringing endorsement. Of course firing Shurmur after one year is ridiculous and unfair, but, if things remain the same after next year and there is not dramatic improvement, and continued regression, I don’t think it’s reactionary or impatient to consider replacing him.
by jonnyphoenix on Dec 25, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
ut, if things remain the same after next year
…well that’s next year not this year. If he can’t look any better through consistency, it’s not reactionary to think there is a legitimate argument for his replacement.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
despite Wallace being worlds better than McCoy
Uh right…
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 25, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
Wallace isn’t WORLDS better than Colt, but come on. For two games in a row Wallace performed just as good (if not better) as Colt’s best games this year. And one of those was against one of the best defenses in the league. I think that definitely tells us a lot about Colt.
I saw NO difference in the QB play these past two games. I did, however, see marked improvement in the OL play.And having a running attack certainly helped Wallace. I don’t think the last two weeks tells us anything about Colt. And, I’m not a Colt apologist.
The O-Line hasn’t been poor for a while. maybe people notice it more with Colt because he hangs onto the ball for 2 minutes.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I’m tired of the Browns pathetic display on the field. I’m tired of watching you guys bitch about it. I’m tired of bitching about it myself. F**k all the jerks who trash Browns fans, I hope they all rot in Shitsburgh.
And Merry X-mas.
Hey, the teams battles…….always according to Murmur.
by Johnnypronto on Dec 25, 2011 1:51 AM EST up reply actions
That is my understanding.
by Legoman0721 on Dec 25, 2011 11:22 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
I don’t believe Colt would have either. But Wallace was starting his first game since last season, so even though it shouldn’t happen you can’t say it’s entirely unexpected that mistakes like this did occur.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 25, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
You can’t take away what losing our entire RB corps has done for our season. The silver lining is Ogbinna looks like one of those gems you find in desperate times. That’s of finding a #3 RB fr next season counts for anything.
I’d still give Colt one more year, and take the WR option. If we still suck we get a high pick next year too. Any good FS’s at the top end of the draft?
....just need a guy called Byner to play RT...
Matt Barkley will be available if this is the case.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 25, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
We did have a ‘battle’ alert in Shumurs presser. He got it out of the way early on. Another of Shumur’s favorites is “…so that’s where we’re at.”
I see a lot of mocks having us take one with our #2 pick. That dude out of Illinois… Don’t recall his name though.
Can we all agree that the best Christmas present the Browns could give us would be to fire Shurmur? Know it won’t happen but I can dream. He makes Daboll look like Don Coryell and couldn’t properly manage a Subway let alone be an NFL head coach.
by mgtbfb on Dec 25, 2011 2:01 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I don’t think we can all agree on much of anything, least of all firing a coach after one season.
by Legoman0721 on Dec 25, 2011 2:18 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Cleveland Dot Com.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 25, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
Wouldn’t winning a Super Bowl be a hell of a lot better than prematurely firing our head coach?
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 25, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
No, I positive we won’t all agree with your statement. Though we all might be able to agree that you don’t know what you are talking about.
by OldTimeDawg on Dec 25, 2011 9:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Im glad we have Holmgren – one of the only guys I think that has it in him to be patient with rebuilding, rather than caving to the fans and the media.. Yall wanna fire everyone. Every year. I wasnt even all the way with firing Mangini – but Fire Shurmur? Glad some of yall dont have a say in our decision making. Blackmon in the draft.
I live for Christ the KING.
by jlsclarity on Dec 25, 2011 2:53 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
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