Shurmur Will Talk About Colt McCoy on Wednesday, Says Phil Taylor Won't Make Same Mistake
by Chris Pokorny on Dec 26, 2011 10:00 PM EST
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Cleveland Browns head coach Pat Shurmur met with the local media on Monday to discuss a few things from this past Saturday's game against the Baltimore Ravens. He also provided a few updates on quarterback Colt McCoy, as well as the mistake made by Phil Taylor, the mess at the end of the first half, and Kaluka Maiava breaking his hand. [Read full press conference transcript here]
(Opening statement) – "Usually, I touch on injuries here after the game. From the game we actually pulled out of it pretty well. Kaluka (Maiava) is in a cast though, he broke his hand, but there is a very good chance he’ll still be able to play. He’s a tough guy. Otherwise, we’ve got some guys banged up, but no worse for wear after coming out of a physical AFC North contest."
(On if there are any Colt McCoy updates) – "We’ll talk about Colt and his status when we get to Wednesday. But, he was in today and was in all the meetings."
(On if McCoy has been medically cleared to practice) – "He will. We’ll talk more about that on Wednesday."
(On if McCoy can play this week) – "We will be able to know whether he can practice on Wednesday. So at this point, we’re not practicing so I’ll just leave it at that. If he’s able to practice on Wednesday there’s a chance he could play."
(On if McCoy will be the starting quarterback if he is healthy on Sunday) – "I can’t cross that bridge yet. We’ll know more Wednesday when we start practicing for the Steelers and then we’ll talk about it then. I’m not trying to be vague, that’s the case."
(On if McCoy is still experiencing symptoms from the concussion) – "Colt worked out today and was in all the meetings."
(On if his physical activity changed or increased in the last week) – "He’s making improvements."
(On if McCoy can speak to the media) – "I don’t think he’s been cleared to practice yet. That would be no."
(On if he could break down the 3rd and five and 4th and five plays in the fourth quarter) – "There were five guys in a route. First one, Peyton (Hillis), they blitzed us and didn’t cover him in the flat. We’ve got to a better job of getting the play executed. The next one, they played man coverage and we could have done a better job, just generally speaking, but we’re trying to complete the ball for more than five yards, that’s what we’re trying to do."
(On if he spoke to Phil Taylor) – "Obviously, prior to that, they were in a spot where we knew that was going to happen. They were going to try and draw us off sides and in our opinion, it was too long to kick a field goal, which would have left us half a field if they missed it. We felt like they would try to draw us off sides and then punt the football. That’s what we felt like was going to happen. They didn’t get to their second play. Again, we need to be smarter."
(On if he talked to Taylor about what happened) – "He was pretty well aware of the fact it was a screw up and he was, obviously, disappointed about the way things transpired. I would venture to say that will never happen to him again."
(On Wallace accepting full blame for running the ball in that situation) – "As the head coach, I’ve got to do a better job of making sure that in those situations it gets done right, okay? That’s the deal and the way we had that planned, we had a timeout, we had a two play sequence designed to get the first and then throw a pass that would go in the end zone or get us out of bounds. When we recognized we didn’t get out of bounds, then you go into that scenario."
(On if Evan Moore should’ve done something different on the play where he didn’t get out of bounds) – "He caught the ball in the flat and he was fighting to get out of bounds. I’m getting clarification on that."
(On if he thinks the things that have happened this year might not happen again if they hire an offensive coordinator to help alleviate pressure) – "We don’t talk about these things when you win games. We don’t. Hopefully, we’re talking about other things and I think that’s what you’re looking for. That’s the important thing. It’s very important when you’re working with a group of men that are very prideful, that everybody assumes responsibility for the good and the bad. I want a team that’s going to accept responsibility when they screw up. This is a game of mistakes and you try to eliminate the ones that cost you games and then deflect the praise. That’s my style. I think that’s what I’d like to see from our team."
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Well the walrus said we have another year of this, Buckle in kids.
Really?!
by The New Kardiac Kids on Dec 27, 2011 1:26 AM EST reply actions
Wow, 7 (seven!) questions about McCoy that all could have been answered with “I’ll tell you on Wednesday.” Then two questions that only vary in asking if he “spoke with” or “talked to” Phil Taylor.
And for anyone that likes to blame Shurmur for throwing his players under the bus:
As the head coach, I’ve got to do a better job of making sure that in those situations it gets done right, okay?
When it was 100% Seneca’s fault.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Dec 27, 2011 1:37 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
why is it 100% Seneca’s fault? The way I read that Shurmur had a specific set of plays he wanted run and a predicted outcome after we used our last timeout. The Moore play is supposed to get out of bounds when it didn’t that’s when everything went hay wire b/c Shurmur never told Wallace look if we don’t get out of bounds here clock it and we will go to 3rd down. Granted Wallace should absolutely know what to do there but Shurmur needs to let everyone know what his plan is instead of assuming his players know what to do. That’s his job as a coach, execution gaffe’s are entirely on the coaching staff because it’s their job to set their players up for success in those situations. I believe the term Mike Holmgren would use is a “system breakdown”
Because Seneca changed the call that Shurmur sent in. I guess the Head Coach have said whatever you do don’t audible to a run and then have the whole team stand around like idiots, but I’m fairly hog certain that that is Joe Thomas is Joe Thomas.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
it’s shurmurs job to make sure that what ended up happening didn’t happen. He needs to have plans and back up plans and back up to the back up plans. He apparently had one plan and it invovled Evan moore getting out of bounds when Moore didn’t get out of bounds things went haywire. I fully admit Wallace should know better but Shurmur has to tell him look if things start going haywire lets just regroup and stop. Shurmur had a play called already and that allowed Wallace to make a mistake. Executing and eliminatin mistakes is the coaches job. You either set your players up for success or failure, Shurmur is the master of the latter.
I think the part where Shurmur was yelling “Clock! Clock!” and Seneca flat out ignored him is the part you’re missing. There was a plan.
by Legoman0721 on Dec 27, 2011 10:18 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
all I saw Shurmur saying was “what are you doing” and I would ask him the same question. I agree there was a plan but it didn’t work because Shurmur wasn’t at all clear with what he wanted and that resulted in him having to yell Clock, clock, clock and the total shit show that resulted at the end of the half. Execution gaffes and clock management issues are the sole responsibility of the coach. It’s his job to put his players in a position to succeed, Shurmur does a very poor job at doing that.
You are wrong on this one. Shurmur called two plays. He distinctly told Wallace that if the first play did not get out of bounds to call the second play of clock the ball. Seneca Wallace siad himself that he audible to 66T whichis a run, it confused everyone. Seneca admitted the error was his. Shurmur and the rest of the offense was just as surprised. This was Wallace’s fault.
Seneca Wallaces’s words " “I knew we had no timeouts left. It was very loud in that end. It was bad communication on my behalf. I heard Pat (Shurmur) yelling, ‘Clock, clock, clock,’ but I wasn’t sure everyone was on the same page, and that’s my job. It’s not the head coach’s fault. I called 66T, a running play, and it didn’t work. It was a tough situation, but I should have handled it better.”
Shurmur in this situation tried to take some pressure off Wallace by not completely blaming him as he did the same with Taylor and the off sides to end the game.
I guess I am wrong but how could everyone not be on the same page in that situation? Shouldn’t Wallace/Shurmur let everyone know we are going to clock the ball if we don’t get out of bounds? I don’t understand how we keep having all these communication mishaps and system breakdowns. Shouldn’t these things be cleaned up by week 16?
I suppose I am just frustated with 13 years of losing and finding new and interesting ways to screw it up week in and week out.
First year HC, no OC, youngest team in the league. That’s how it happens. You don’t get to be a precision machine like NO or GB your first year. It takes more like 4-5.
didnt New Orleans make the NFC Championship game in the first year of Sean Peyton?
I get what you are saying but after 16 weeks should these sort of things be worked out? I can totally accept the gaffe in week 1 against the Bengals but the mistakes keep piling up week after week after week. I mean come on how can we get to week 16 and no one knows how to handle a goal line situation with no time outs and under 1 minute left on the clock? That can’t be the first time that Shurmur or the guys on offense have encountered that situation. It’s frustrating beyond belief.
I’ve seen other teams mess up the clock before, it’s not like its totally unheard of. The practice 2 min drills all the time, but I’m betting Colt was getting the majority, if not all the reps in practice so maybe that’s why? Is it really worth dwelling on it? It happened, hopefully they learn from it and move on.
but the other 10 guys on the field should know what to do. I just don’t understand how simple things like managing a two minute drill manage to get screwed up so badly this late in the season. I suppose it’s not worth dwelling on but it just seems like some new screw up every week that 99% of the people on this board and sitting at home on their couch knows was handled completely wrong. Like I said frustrating beyond belief and shows they really haven’t progressed at all.
99% of the people on this board and sitting at home on their couch knows was handled completely wrong.
and if you looked at the game thread, those 99% all noticed it was Seneca who just didn’t have a clue.
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Your question is absolutely valid, but you use Shumur and the guys on offense to replace Wallace who is at fault. It should say How can Wallace (a veteran QB) not know what to do there?
as I put it to one of my friends, Wallace outsmarted himself into stupidity. He was quoted as calling the play because he wanted to catch the D off guard. It isn’t stupid in theory, but that playcalling is way too cute when you want to spike the ball and get the FG.
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honestly, it’s not an awful move from the 3 because
a) they are less likely to expect it
b) Hillis’ ypc was significantly over 3 yards.
It’s not the smart playcall, but going for it from the 3 is just as risky imo as going for it from the 1.
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Just one of those plays where, if Hillis scored, Seneca woulda been a savy veteran…but since he didn’t, he’s an idiot. So..he’s an idiot.
by redCel on Dec 27, 2011 8:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It’s dumb to run in that situation each and every time. Dumb even if it scores.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
As Seneca just proved, I agree. But if the result was different we wouldn’t be talking about how it was the wrong audible.
by redCel on Dec 28, 2011 6:59 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
honestly, if Hillis scores, Seneca just got a bit lucky. I understand his reasoning, but I don’t agree at all and you have to take the points there or at least stop the clock
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wait…so it’s Shurmur’s job to have a backup plan when his QB changes the play he gives him? geez, the guy can’t just run out there and yell STOP!
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no it’s Shurmur’s job to clearly tell his players what the plan is. According to champion Shurmur said the play after Moore didn’t get out of bounds was supposed to be a spike according to Wallace. Wallace said everyone wasn’t on the same page so he audibled to the run. Whose fault is it that everyone wasn’t on the same page at the point in the game? Isn’t it the coaches responsibility to make sure the players execute properly and clearly understand what he wants in every situation?
actually Wallace’s defense of the run was trying to catch the D off guard.
Whose fault is it that everyone wasn’t on the same page at the point in the game?
who is the guy on the field who relay’s the coaches plays? Who is the person who is in charge of getting everyone to know the snap count?
In the end, the guy who is in charge of getting players on the same page when there’s not a lot of time to call a play is the guy on the field. The Coach can’t relay the message to all 11 guys out there, Seneca has to be his messenger.
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It would be a lot easier to absolve Shurmur of the blame in this case if game clock management hadn’t been an issue all year long. Sure, many of the individual situations can be explained away or put on individual players, but when you look at the whole picture, it’s painfully obvious that Shurmur has not prepared his players adequately for these types of situations. For this he deserves blame.
Also, think about why Seneca is making this call in the first place. He gets a call to clock it from HC, but QB2 thinks he knows better and runs with it. I’m not saying that they should not have the ability to audible, but if this was a coach who had better command and trust of his team, do you really think the backup QB is going to hear the call in a crucial situation like that and say, “Na, F that, I’m gonna do this instead.”
I can’t remember a ton of really serious clock management issues before this game, maybe some minor ones, but I don’t remember it being completely awful. Shurmur has had his issues, but I don’t remember clock management being that big of an issue.
many of the individual situations can be explained away or put on individual players,
All the clock management issues are pretty much entirely on Seneca(this includes the timeouts).
Shurmur has not prepared his players adequately for these types of situations.
It’s completely illogical for a coach during the offseason to spend any sort of significant time with his backup, a 9 year veteran, on knowing what to do in a 2 minute drill or in situations where clock management is even more key. He should spend that time with his 2nd year starter.
And there isn’t enough time in practice to go over every scenario since Seneca has been starting (and this is ignoring the fact that it is perfectly rational to assume Seneca has learned at some point what to do here).
do you really think the backup QB is going to hear the call in a crucial situation like that and say, "Na, F that, I’m gonna do this instead."
well he admitted it…unless there is a conspiracy to have Shurmur keep his job as long as possible and Seneca is just a pawn in the scheme.
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if this was a coach who had better command and trust of his team, do you really think the backup QB …
You must have missed the beginning of that sentence.
The point is that the coach has been so bad that he has either lost, or never had, the trust of his players to make the right call in a crucial situation. Therefore we are left with the backup QB thinking he knows better and screwing it up.
The whole season has been marred by rookie HC mistakes, from endlessly wasting timeouts to the more crucial end of half/game situations like this past weekend. Why you want to all of a sudden absolve Shurmur is beyond me. The root of these problems is him.
The point is that the coach has been so bad that he has either lost, or never had, the trust of his players to make the right call in a crucial situation.
they trust Shurmur so little and think of him so little that they just give up and roll over when they are down by a couple scores…oh wait, they are actually battling and this isn’t even making fun of Shurmur. In the 2nd half, that was a team that was definitely trusting their coach. I don’t know what the hell you were watching.
Therefore we are left with the backup QB thinking he knows better
When Colt got the starting job, Seneca clearly expressed sentiments that he knew better anyways. Combine that with needing to play for a starting job in 2011, the stupid risk makes some sense because if he pulls it off, he looks like a genius.
rookie HC mistakes
our players (such as Taylor and Shawn Lauvao) have been making a lot of “rookie mistakes”.
from endlessly wasting timeouts
I think Seneca has probably wasted as many timeouts as Shurmur did the whole year.
The root of these problems are not always him. Some are definitely him, but young players make more mistakes than more experienced players…and Seneca isn’t good.
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Belichick automatically adds a couple wins to any of these crappy teams in the NFL. That’s not at all a good comparison.
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It’s evidence that the HC absolutely is a factor in that end of half scenario, therefore you cannot put 100% of blame on Seneca.
The End
So let’s just absolve the blame because Shurmur isn’t Belichick? And I really didn’t understand what you were saying because even with Belichick, there is a chance that a career backup like Seneca still tries a stupid all-or-nothing call.
The End?
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No doubt, and I’m willing to chalk this whole year up to a learning experience for him as well. Bring in an OC and let’s see the improvement next year.
If that’s the case then the play would still be ran through Shurmur first. I’m guessing.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 27, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
this is where I am on it.
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Shurmur: Seneca… when you are done taking a crap, there is this paper next to you on a roll. Take some of that and wipe. Throw the papr in the toilet and then flush the toilet. It is the handle on the side of the white thing you are sitting on. If you get confused just yell out and someone wil come help walk it thorugh for you.
by SBP on Dec 27, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
execution gaffe’s are entirely on the coaching staff
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I’m surprised that you would agree with that. Bad play calling, bad schemes, predictability, that’s on the coaches. Execution in game time is coach-able but just because a bunch of rooks and backups mess up doesn’t make it the coaches fault.
I’m pointing out how ridiculous of a statement it is. The coach can’t go out there and make the play for the players. You can get the right people the right reps, you can put them in good situations, you can teach, you can set people up for success…but they still have to go out and succeed themselves.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
People wonder why coaches snap during press conferences.
The answer to the guy’s very first question is:
“We’ll talk about Colt and his status when we get to Wednesday.”
Followed by SIX more questions with practically the same answer. Rufio mentions it above, but this is just BS. If I was the guy, I would have walked off after the third question.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 27, 2011 1:59 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I know what both u n Rufio are saying….but, this guy needs to grow that pair and walk off after the third question.
Really?!
by The New Kardiac Kids on Dec 27, 2011 2:09 AM EST up reply actions
The guy is milquetoast. We’re stuck with him. I would like to see some more emotion. I’m not saying he should go “full retard” and start saying “fire me please” after every comment he makes.
DBN=Where we hate Chuck Noll for going 1-13 his first season, 5-9 his second and 6-8 his third.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Dec 27, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
I’d like to see him yell at these guys, but I honestly it takes just as much balls to sit there and hold your temper as it does to blow your top…maybe even more.
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by bross09 on Dec 27, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I just want to see him look like he cares. He only looked a little annoyed with the way the first half ended against Baltimore. He looked like I am sure I do when I miss a 3 foot putt. Mildly annoyed but I know I get another chance on the next hole.
I can see questioning his play calling or the mistakes or how he treats players and other coaches but I really don’t see what’s to gain by questioning his personality type other than it makes the viewer feel better. I would rather have his blandness over some buffoon like Rex Ryan.
I would prefer someone in the middle. I guess someone like Mike Tomlin, I don’t know. Someone who at least shows some emotion during the game and makes definitive no nonsense statements after games and in press conferences. It’s just frustrating for me to see SHurmur on the sideline with the same blank stare on his face regardless of the situation or the play that just happened. We score a TD Shurmur just looks like blah. We throw a pick Shurmur just stares at his play card. He doesn’t have to be Bill Cowher spitting at people but give me something.
That’s not his M.O. and I don’t blame him. Yelling at grown men doesn’t really have the same affect it did in Lombardi’s era. His thing is that he trusts his players to be professionals, especially the veterans. The young ones he expects to learn how to be pros. Seneca is a vet but he’s also a backup. You can’t expect him not to make mistakes.
Isn’t part of his job as coach to teach those guys how to be pros? They aren’t just going to learn it on their own. I didn’t learn how to do my job by just doing it every day someone before me said do this, this and this and then that, that and that and then you learn ways to do it better. If Shurmur is just throwing these guys out there and not giving them any guidance then I have no hope for the future.
Obviously that’s not happening but you can’t ignore that a lot of the game management comes out of experience. 10 seconds for an inexperienced player is way different than 10 seconds for one who is.
I think either you have a feel for the game and know what to do when or you don’t. I mean Herm Edwards can’t manage a clock to save his life and that didn’t change over the course of two teams and 8-9 years as a head coach. Mangini is the same way, the guy just can’t manage a clock or timeouts. I don’t think next year we are going to be amazed by drastic changes in Pat Shurmur’s game management. I think we will still see a fair amount of mistakes that we all know are blatant mistakes.
but Herm had passion!!
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this has nothing to do with flipping out in a press conference.
Rob Ryan has become popular in Dallas because he is fiery and cares, but that doesn’t make him better. It’s a fan pleaser just like grabbing a hometown player is. It pleases the fans because it’s an active gesture of showing they care, whether genuine or not.
I highly doubt a guy who has a limited time frame to prove his worth at his job doesn’t care at all and is just going through the motions.
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I don’t think Shurmur has a limited time frame at all. It seems Holmgren is going to give the guy all the time he deems necessary regardless of how horrible Shurmur is at his job or how terrible the results are. For Manigni 5-11 wasn’t good enough, for Pat Shurmur 4-12 is just fine.
You seriously think that he isn’t on the hot seat if he goes 4-12 again? I think its pretty delusional in most cases to say an employee has no motivation to prove his worth to a company, no matter how much the boss liked him in the interview. Outside of maybe nepotism, most people try to keep their job.
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Nope I honestly don’t think so, wspecially if we turnover a signficant number of players on the offensive side of the ball. If we are running a new QB, rookie WR and some new RB out there it will be our “third first year” and Shurmur’s job will be totally safe. Nepotism? Well there certainly isn’t any nepotism in this situation is there?
I know Shurmur was “hand picked” and all, but this is just stupid. Really, I am not even talking being fired, just that his job security goes down significantly if the results do not improve at all.
The implication that this is some sort of nepotistic relationship is one of the most out there things I think I have ever heard. Shurmur is hand picked and all that, but he isn’t Holmgren’s spawn. Hell, Holmgren never was his boss until this year.
Holmgren likes these guys, sure. But Heckert and Shurmur aren’t even close to the relationship with Holmgren where you can even speculate some sort of convoluted nepotism.
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I really don’t think 4-12 put Shurmur in danger at all. It might among the media and fans but Holmgren is mostly deaf to what we all say anyways. I think he is going to get 3-4 years at minimum unless Holmgren bolts town.
The idea that there isn’t a hint of something close to nepotism with Shurmur is ignoring the giant gorilla in the room. Holmgren worked closely with his uncle and is close to the Shurmur family. No other team was remotely interested in Pat Shurmur as a head coach. I am just saying it looks a little fishy.
I think Heckert was hired totally on merit for the job he did in Philly, I am not sure one can say the same for Shurmur.
He worked with his uncle about a decade ago and the idea that he is close with the whole family is pure speculation.
This isn’t the first time there has been a guy who hasn’t been a highly sought after HC that was given a job. John Harbaugh wasn’t even a coordinator at any point.
I am just saying it looks a little fishy.
the only thing that seems fishy here is some of your logic.
DBN: Where hiring a former employee’s nephew is akin to nepotism.
It’s not like Fritz could put in a good word for him anyways…
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well if Shurmur came in and went to the AFC championship game in his first year I bet we wouldn’t be complaining and wondering how he got his job because he was hardly qualified to be a NFL head coach. Last I checked being a special teams coordinator qualifies as being a coordinator but that could be fish logic.
Shurmur also didn’t inherit a team with the talent and stability of the Ravens. I like Heckert, but it also remains to be seen if he is at the level of Ozzie as a talent evaluator.
Shurmur also doesn’t have a young QB anywhere near the level of Flacco. Let’s see what Shurmur can do with a bit more talent infusion on D and a competent QB.
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I don’t really need to see anymore but I think I will have to endure at least 2 more seasons. Next year will be our “third first year” so Shurmur is completely safe until after the 2013/14 season at the earliest. Unless Holmgren bolts on his Harley with his saddle bags full of Lerner’s cash.
Next year will not be our “third first year”. Just because you have said it about 3 times doesn’t make it the truth.
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well this year is our 2nd first year and we totally rebuilt the defense. I just figure after rebuild the offense this year it will be dubbed our 3rd first year. Holmgren said it not me.
It was the 2nd first year for Colt, not everyone. If they get Luck or Griffin, they might sit for a bit, especially Griffin, so there’s probably another half year to a year shot.
did he really say this?
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that wasn’t Holmgren though. leave it to this guy to completely butcher a quote then and use it out of context
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I think he is going to get 3-4 years at minimum
Good. Please tell me he shouldn’t get that long at a minimum. Stop thinking you know more about football than Mike Holmgren, you don’t. If he thinks Shurmur’s the guy then you give them the chance to build the team they’re trying to build.
Or just keep doing what we’ve done since ‘99. How’s that worked out for you?
consistency for the sake of consistency is not a good reason to keep anyone. Keeping Shurmur b/c it goes against what we have done for the last 13 years doesn’t make a whole lot of sense either. By this logic shoudlnt’ we have given Mangini more time? Or Romeo? or Brady Quinn? or Braylon Edwards? Or any number of people? If there is any fan base more familiar with incompetent coaching than us I would be curious to know who it is. I don’t think I know more than Mike Holmgren about football but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it’s probably a duck. How is what Holmgren is doing any different from what everyone else has done in their first few years running the Browns?
I don’t think I know more than Mike Holmgren about football but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it’s probably a duck
I think you have seriously gone off the deep end, buddy.
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the whole “quacking like a duck” usage here is a little wacky to say the least.
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Yes they all deserved more time. I personally haven’t liked how we’ve given up on a lot of these people so quickly, that includes Couch, Quinn, K2 and yes even Braylon (well maybe not BE). I really hated the Mangini hire the second it was done, because I thought he was a petty man hired by a soccer fan thinking he knew something football and I wanted to keep RAC. Mangini turned out to be a better coach than I thought, but it wasn’t going to work the minute they hire Holmgren.
How is what Holmgren is doing any different from what everyone else has done in their first few years running the Browns?
It’s completely different. They are building a FO and coaching staff that are philosophically aligned with players that fit into the scheme. At no other point that I know of has this been the case except when Davis was coach and GM and that’s just because he was the same person (and a bad GM). RAC was constantly undermined by Savage, Mangini had freaking Kokinis, nothing else needs to be said.
I think Holmgren is making a lot of the same mistakes that have been made in the past by previous regimes. He and Heckert came in and basically said the cupboards are bare and got rid of any player that could play a lick and brought in “his” guys, nevermind some of those guys that he got rid of could have been useful for a year or two. Same as Mangini, Savage and Davis. Then he hired a head coach that is pretty underwhelming, same mistake Lerner made with Davis and Crennel and the same mistake Policy made with Chris Palmer. I don’t know it all just seems way to familiar.
They got rid of most of the elderly players that are now pretty much out of the league. They kept some good young players like Rubin, Hillis and thought MoMass and Robo would be better. I’m not sad that they didn’t keep a bunch of older backups from the Jets. Is Usama Young better than Abe Elam? Probably not right now but he could be just as good. He’s actually shown some good tackling skills as the year has gone on.
Young is one of the worst open field tacklers I have seen since Marquez Pope.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 27, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
Totally disagree, saw him take on much bigger guys than him in the open field where either he made a tackle or they run another 40 yards and score. He got a bad rap because of the bad angle he took in the Tenn. game but a replay shown on Playbook AFC revealed it wasn’t even his fault, another Tenn player screened him out from a good angle.
Young is awful. I mean, I could make the tackles he does when I get sent on an untouched blitz.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 27, 2011 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
The way he tackles is horrendous. He grabs the waist and falls to his knees hoping to bring the guy down with his weight. hence he misses the tackle.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 27, 2011 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
He’s a CB/FS who’s had to play SS this year. He’s not TJ Ward but I’ve seen plenty of critical stops by him where other people just laid hands on the ball carrier.
I admit he’s had some good stops. But trusting him is a different issue. Look at the Ben Tate TD run against us. I’ve seen Young do that too many times.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 28, 2011 12:46 AM EST up reply actions
One thing you need to understand is that just because you see a bad player make a good play every once in a while, that doesn’t suddenly make him a good player.
Young is crap. He makes one good tackle out of 5, and that doesn’t erase the other 4 bad tackles
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 29, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Well then maybe they should do something different and fit players into the system like square pegs in round holes and then use their magic wand to poof our way to a 12 win season and AFC championship game appearance.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I’ll get a huge cauldron, let me know when you develop the wand.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
this is making me think of skyrim potions.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Holmgren is mostly deaf to what we all say anyways.
As it should be.
nepotism
Welcome to the ENTIRE NFL.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Dec 28, 2011 2:32 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
and give the media more ammo to just call him childish? He didn’t do the easy thing, but he did the smart thing.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
How is he deflecting?
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
This is a game of mistakes
This pretty much sums up post-expansion Browns football.
Dawgs By Nature: Holy Joe Thomas we suck
Pretty much sums up Shurmer’s last two years in the NFL…before that who knows?
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 27, 2011 9:05 AM EST up reply actions
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