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Around SBN: VIDEO: Veterans Share Favorite Sports Memories

Joe Thomas Named to Pro Bowl as AFC Starter

After a 4-11 start to the season, the Cleveland Browns have had only one player named to the Pro Bowl: left tackle Joe Thomas. Was there ever any doubt? [Full Pro Bowl Rosters]

There really weren't any other candidates for the Pro Bowl on offense, unless you count Alex Mack for consistency purposes. On defense, I thought D'Qwell Jackson would have been a strong candidate to make his first Pro Bowl, but Ray Lewis and Derrick Johnson made it ahead of him. Second-year cornerback Joe Haden also failed to make the Pro Bowl, losing out to the likes of Darrelle Revis, Champ Bailey, and Jonathan Joseph. Rookie defensive end Jabaal Sheard didn't make it despite all of the sacks and forced fumbles he has this season.

The alternates to the Pro Bowl should be announced over the next day or so, and it wouldn't be surprising to hear the names mentioned above (Mack, Haden, Jackson, and Sheard) be on the list of alternates. I believe that is how Mack made the Pro Bowl last season.

Hat tip goes to TheLicensedPessimist for posting this as a FanShot.

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Why?

Even Doug Dieken admits Joe Thomas is the real #73

by Doc's Kid on Dec 27, 2011 8:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Heyoooo

Dawgs By Nature: Holy Joe Thomas we suck

by Adrock2099 on Dec 27, 2011 8:46 PM EST up reply actions  

i know i voted for Thomas. when is he going to get knighted, btw?

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

by pwndabear on Dec 27, 2011 10:02 PM EST reply actions  

I went through the entire Pro Bowl ballet come to realize after completing it they ask if you’d like to vote again. This leads me to believe that because fans could vote as often as they want there’s likely no real credibility to our votes and it’s all left up to the writers, announcers, players, and coaches. Thomas certainly deserves to go, but I was under the assumption no Brown would go this year with how poorly we’ve played.

Honor. Courage. Commitment.

by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 27, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Fan votes are 1/3. The other 2/3 is coaches and players. Our fan votes pretty much say who wins the popularity contest. Which I seriously disagree with. I personally don’t think we should have a say.

by Brownie's Year on Dec 27, 2011 10:48 PM EST up reply actions  

DQ finished 3rd in the fan vote and overall so the coaches and players are just as dumb about voting as the fans.

But overall I agree, the fan voting is a joke. All internet polls are a joke but the fact that they let you vote as many times as you want in a single day is just over the top stupid. Still, looking at the results, they’re exactly what you expect from the Pro Bowl. Established names stay in for longer than they deserve and only truly exceptional performances by bell weather teams get in. Thomas came in the same year we won 10 games so he stays. If we won 4 games that year there’s not telling how stupidly he would have been treated by the voters.

by HenryDawg on Dec 27, 2011 10:59 PM EST up reply actions  

NFL.com gave DQ some praise for being left out. Maybe he gets in as an alternate.

by Brownie's Year on Dec 27, 2011 11:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Lewis makes the list on rep. His overall season was not as good as Brian Cushing’s. Johnson is a top player and impacts the game on all three downs. Another tough omission was the Browns’ D’Qwell Jackson, who is a tackling machine.
Three really good players, though I feel that the Browns’ Joe Haden and the Chiefs’ Brandon Flowers had better years than Bailey.

See, popularity contest.

by Brownie's Year on Dec 27, 2011 11:12 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I was surprised that Joe H did not have a better year. He still was a good corner – but I really thought he would be a no doubter Pro Bowler this year.

Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen

by realmccoy on Dec 28, 2011 12:45 AM EST up reply actions  

IMO he had a great year, but completely lacked in INTs. He dropped about 5 or 6. But those turn in to pass deflections in which he is one behind the league leader. A little more air time and the people will realize how much of a stud he is.

by Brownie's Year on Dec 28, 2011 12:54 AM EST up reply actions  

If you look at the names that beat, I wasn’t surprised that they were more popular.

Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.

by Simmsinns on Dec 28, 2011 1:00 AM EST up reply actions  

For now…

Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.

by Simmsinns on Dec 28, 2011 1:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Like the other guy said. It’s exactley because of the facf he didn’t have any picks. He was a shutdown corner though, true he dripped alot, but he didn’t allow recievers to catch much, and QB started to not throw to his side.

by lightninmcqueen on Dec 28, 2011 1:01 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I have a name, asshole. :P

by Brownie's Year on Dec 28, 2011 1:02 AM EST up reply actions  

LOL sorry BY, i was too conentrated on what i was going to say! I’m having a ridiculous amount of trouble commenting tonight haha.

by lightninmcqueen on Dec 28, 2011 1:40 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

That’s what we have All-Pro for.

I’ve called out the Pro Bowl for being the popularity contest that it is as much as anybody. But, I think the fans should have the opportunity to vote on who they want in their silly little homecoming court and see them all dance in a laughable excuse of football game.

I like that the differences between All-Pro and Pro Bowler are distinguishable.

Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.

by Simmsinns on Dec 28, 2011 12:56 AM EST up reply actions  

No one cares about all pro.

by Brownie's Year on Dec 28, 2011 1:01 AM EST up reply actions  

What?! All-Pro is far more of an actual indication of football skill among NFL players compared to their peers than Pro Bowler.

Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.

by Simmsinns on Dec 28, 2011 1:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Except that everyone else holds probowlers with more weight.

XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.

by SpecialBrownie on Dec 28, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Obviously, I can’t speak for “everyone else” but if that’s the case, though I don’t think it is, I’d disagree with those people.

Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.

by Simmsinns on Dec 28, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

It is the case though. It might not have been though, until ESPN started drooling over Probowl stats and nothing else.

XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.

by SpecialBrownie on Dec 28, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe it’s because I stopped watching ESPN a few years back. Pro Bowl stats are a joke, handcuffed defense, general bunch of players that don’t care and aren’t trying for a game that means nothing.

Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.

by Simmsinns on Dec 28, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Tell that to the Media.

XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.

by SpecialBrownie on Dec 28, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I think most media know the actual game is a joke. A lot of people think being selected for the pro bowl automatically means a player is great. Sometimes that’s true, but sometimes it’s not.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Dec 28, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

A lot of people think being selected for the pro bowl automatically means a player is great. Sometimes that’s true, but sometimes it’s not.

Being selected for the pro bowl automatically meaning a player is great is never true. It automatically means said player is popular/recognizable among fans/players/coaches.

Whether the player was great in the past or great now may have lead to the popularity, but it certainly wasn’t the other way around. That is to say, a great player can be selected to the Pro Bowl, but a selection never means said player is automatically great because of the selection.

Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.

by Simmsinns on Dec 28, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

DA for 2012 Pro Bowl! He made it in 2007, so he must be great! WOOO!!!

Even Doug Dieken admits Joe Thomas is the real #73

by Doc's Kid on Dec 28, 2011 6:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Remember this is why the date of the game was pushed to before the Super Bowl simply because the attendance and TV ratings were dropping off a great deal over the past decade. Everyone realizes it’s a pointless game. There’s just a small few who think it’s worth something. Kind of like the group of people who still follow WWE.

Honor. Courage. Commitment.

by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 28, 2011 9:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I really would have liked to see D’Qwell make it he really deserved it. Joe Thomas…well, Im glad he made it but I just dont think he’s had pro bowl years the last 2. Hes been decent, not great…decidedly mediocre at times. I know alot of people like to overlook that but it seems like for a while now browns fans idea of ‘great’ has been relegated to players that dont necessarily ‘hurt us’ on the field…I guess that just happens when your team has struggled so much so often.

by jonnyphoenix on Dec 28, 2011 12:54 AM EST reply actions  

JT is the most easily recognizable LT name on the Pro Bowl ballet. It’s no surprise to me that we was first of the tackles in the popularity contest, regardless of this 2011 season.

Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.

by Simmsinns on Dec 28, 2011 12:59 AM EST up reply actions  

And JT is easily one of the best left tackles out there. It’s easy to look bad if the whole team looks bad, but it’s easy to look good as well. But saying JT has been mediocre is blasphemy.

by lightninmcqueen on Dec 28, 2011 1:03 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

My bad sim, REPLY FAIL ment that to johnny.

by lightninmcqueen on Dec 28, 2011 1:04 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I don’t even know where to begin. . . . This is all kinds of wrong. . . . I wish the rest of our offense was as “mediocre” as Joe T.

2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion

by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 2:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah down year, he may have given up a sack and 1 false start penalty. Geesh he sucks.

by HenryDawg on Dec 28, 2011 8:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Joe Thomas did not have his best year. He was still easily one of the top linemen in the game at any position.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Dec 28, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

After a 4-11 start to the season, the Cleveland Browns have had only one player named to the Pro Bowl: left tackle Joe Thomas. Was there ever any doubt?

For even insinuating that people could have doubted the all mighty one to begin with , you will be pancaked.

Only thing manlier than football? Ponies.

by BrownDawg1409 on Dec 28, 2011 2:07 AM EST reply actions  

SF players cashing in bigtime on their successful season.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Dec 28, 2011 2:11 AM EST reply actions  

You watch the plays, is Mack a “pro bowler” to you?

It just beats me up knowing we pick a Center in the first round the year before the Steelers do, and their guy is instantly a PB starter (over a guy like Mangold) whereas ours is a 2nd alternate at best. Is that a product of popularity, or is Pouncey that much better?

www.lowbrowsophisticate.com

by kwoog on Dec 28, 2011 6:38 AM EST up reply actions  

I think popularity has a significant impact on this.

I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.

by bross09 on Dec 28, 2011 7:00 AM EST up reply actions  

and air time. How much national exposure does Mack get? almost none compared to the Steelers who get blown on national TV every week.

by HenryDawg on Dec 28, 2011 8:55 AM EST up reply actions  

I think Mack is one of the top 5-6 Centers in the NFL it just seems the top 2-3 Centers are in AFC and he is probably always going to be on the outside looking in at guys like Mangold and Pouncey.

by PaduaDSP on Dec 28, 2011 9:06 AM EST up reply actions  

No offense, but I don’t think you are in position to judge if Mack is a top 5-6 center in the NFL.

by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 28, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

And you aren’t in a position to judge if he isn’t.

XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.

by SpecialBrownie on Dec 28, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes I am.

Center is the single most un-translucent position in the NFL. It is completely independent of stats so you can’t cross-reference it with other players. And it’s the least visual on game tape unless you’re specifically analyzing each snap with focus on that center.

So it’s fair to say that I’m sure he doesn’t analyze each game from each center on all 32 NFL teams, in which he would be in position to say his observations show he plays better than the other 27.

by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 28, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

And I don’t think you do either, so you can’t say anything.

XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.

by SpecialBrownie on Dec 28, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

so you can’t say anything.

Which is why I’ve never claimed he’s a top 5 center. You’re a sharp one.

by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 28, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly. You’re claiming he’s not. But don’t you need to watch all that tape?

You’re a dumb one.

XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.

by SpecialBrownie on Dec 28, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s because the people who do watch all that tape, says he’s not

PFF.com

by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 28, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

The same people who don’t watch the blocking closely enough to tell the difference between a FB and a OG or half-slide and BoB

I’m sure they watch every snap, and I’m sure they are smart, but they make mistakes and mistakes are amplified when you are talking about the degree of SSS in any NFL statistic or metric.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Dec 28, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

You can translate that to a lot of positions. That means no one here can talk about any player in the NFL because no one here watches every game, every snap, and evaluates every player.

Sounds like a bunch of crap to me.

by Brownie's Year on Dec 28, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Thumbs up!

XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.

by SpecialBrownie on Dec 28, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s not true at all. You can look at the stats for positions like WR, RB, DE, QB, LB and compare their numbers across the board. Then you have all those positions, plus other positions like CB, S, LT where stats can matter a little less, but the performances stand out a lot better when you casually watch the games.

But interior line is one position where you can’t analyze across the board unless you specifically key in on the individual performances. How does Mack’s stats compare against the other 31 starting centers? Oh yea, there are no stats for his position.

Sounds like a bunch of crap to me.

The only thing that’s crap is someone thinking they’re in position to make a visual assessments about a player in comparison to others, when they haven’t even seen the other players play. You don’t have to be smart to understand that.

by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 28, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t have to look at stats for me to say who is good or not. Your logic is completely flawed. You say Centers don’t have stats but PFF can somehow rank them by stats? Yes, Mack’s numbers may be low (by PFF numbers), but look who is lined up next to him. The man is a stud and we know it.

A wise man once said…

Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.

by Brownie's Year on Dec 28, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

You say Centers don’t have stats but PFF can somehow rank them by stats?

PFF doesn’t rank them by stats. They rank them by quantifying their performances visually. That’s more than you can do watching just Browns games right?

The man is a stud and we know it.

The question is how do you know it? You don’t know it, and you choose to believe so because he’s a first rounder and he was a pro-bowl alternative. The same way people “know” steinbach was a good G despite the fact that he was ranked last in the league the 2 years prior to being hurt. The same way Steeler fans believe Pouncey is better than Mack despite being near the last in the league in pass rushing.

by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 29, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

For most O Linemen, if you never hear about them, they’re doing great.

by HenryDawg on Dec 28, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

most un-translucent

Opaque? “Most un-translucent” seems rather redundant.

Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.

by Simmsinns on Dec 28, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Pouncey isn’t that good.

XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.

by SpecialBrownie on Dec 28, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Popularity. I don’t know if Mack is better, but I know Pouncey isn’t that good.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Dec 28, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Popularity, and wins. SF just got Dashon Goldson into the Pro Bowl.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Dec 28, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

On DQ, I would just say we just need to break Ray Lewis’ legs, but we already played the Ravens.

I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.

by bross09 on Dec 28, 2011 7:00 AM EST reply actions  

There’s always next year.

by HenryDawg on Dec 28, 2011 8:56 AM EST up reply actions  

do you guys think DQ will be back with us next year?

by PaduaDSP on Dec 28, 2011 9:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes they said he would be

by champion64 on Dec 28, 2011 9:08 AM EST up reply actions  

so you think they will use the franchise tag on him or get him signed to a long term deal? I have to believe a guy like DQ is going to be looking to cash in big time and he is one of the few on this team that has earned it.

by PaduaDSP on Dec 28, 2011 9:10 AM EST up reply actions  

I would definitely consider giving him a pretty big deal. I generally don’t give a ton of value to LBs who don’t rush the QB but he has done a phenomenal job of that this year.

I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.

by bross09 on Dec 28, 2011 9:15 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree that he warrants consideration for a big deal. how do you feel about franchising him if we can’t get a deal done?

by PaduaDSP on Dec 28, 2011 9:23 AM EST up reply actions  

If you franchise you have to pay the average of the top 5 LBs in the league. Do a deal.

by HenryDawg on Dec 28, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions  

franchising is a ton of money for a short period of time. I can only see them doing that in a couple situations.

-They can’t get a long term deal done and/or he is getting a better long term offer somewhere else
-they want him, but don’t have a lot of faith in his health after 2012

I think teams view the tag as a last resort. Especially since I believe (and I could be wrong) that you can tag players for less years in the new CBA

I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.

by bross09 on Dec 28, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

this is kind of what I am thinking as well. I just have a gut feeling Jackson is going to want to cash in a pretty big deal and that, similar to the Peyton HIllis situation without all the drama, the two sides won’t be able to reach an agreement on a contract both sides are happy with. I really hope they do b/c resigning Jackson essentially eliminates any need at MLB for the next 3-4 seasons. Hopefully they get a deal done shortly after the season is over.

by PaduaDSP on Dec 28, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t get that feeling at all about Jackson. He deserves to be well paid but he doesn’t seem like the break the bank type. The man is seriously well grounded.

by HenryDawg on Dec 28, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah my gut feeling could be totally off base. I guess there is always such a black cloud hanging over this organization I always expect the worst.

by PaduaDSP on Dec 28, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I totally agree. I hope they get a deal done, but there is a chance he signs a big deal. Him playing for this team for so long does give us an advantage, especially since the FO has expressed they like him.

I wouldn’t mind a franchise tag as a last resort because then, we can draft a 2nd/3rd round LB to replace him and keep him in the short term while that player develops.

I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.

by bross09 on Dec 28, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

He’s one of HHS’ designated core players (remember the moustaches?)

I don’t think he gets that sort of cred in another locker room or coaching staff.

by HenryDawg on Dec 28, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree. I think he will stay and sign a long term deal, but in the end I at least want him here for another year at the very minimum. There is a big step down to Brown/maiava and chances are Fujita has at most another year too.

I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.

by bross09 on Dec 28, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Sad truth here. I love Fujita, but he’s lost a step and hasn’t finished the last two seasons. I hope they let him play out his contract, because his leadership on defense and in the locker room no doubt has something to do with the quality of our defense.

I take this optimism shit seriously.

"Who gives two shits about Matt Roth besides Matt Roth and Matt Roth’s mom?" - LocalMan

by The Licensed Optimist on Dec 28, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree totally.

I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.

by bross09 on Dec 28, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Regarding the CBA, I know there were new changes to the terms of franchise tagging a player. I’m not entirely certain, in fact I could be dead wrong, but if I’m not mistaken I think it’s something on the line that a player could be tagged, but other teams have the ability to over-rule it with a better contract. I know the franchise tag was one of those things the PA wanted changed, and it doesn’t make sense to me that there wouldn’t have been at least some stipulations to it under the new CBA. I don’t have any hard evidence on this information though, and it would be nice if someone decided to look it up. I’ll do it eventually if no one else does.

Honor. Courage. Commitment.

by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 28, 2011 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

The already said he will be back

by champion64 on Dec 28, 2011 9:27 AM EST up reply actions  

yes I know but will they get him signed to a long term deal or use the franchise tag on him?

by PaduaDSP on Dec 28, 2011 9:36 AM EST up reply actions  

We’ll try to work out a long-term deal and if we can’t, we will franchise him. Heckert specifically said he was not ruling out use of the franchise tag, which is usually a signal that they will use it if necessary.

2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion

by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I very much hope so. They definitely said they would be, or would be trying

I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.

by bross09 on Dec 28, 2011 9:14 AM EST up reply actions  

The two years he lost through injury will also have reduced the wear and tear on his body. That’s 300 tackles less for him.

....just need a guy called Byner to play RT...

by LondonBrown on Dec 28, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions  

less wear and tear but also an injury prone label. Those two things probably cancel each other out though?

by PaduaDSP on Dec 28, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Someone here (rufio?) said that once a pectoral muscle is repaired it can’t be torn again. Other than those two injuries he’s had a healthy career.

by Brownie's Year on Dec 28, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t know if it can’t be torn again, but I would guess it’s a lot harder.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Dec 28, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought he tore it twice in two years though?

XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.

by SpecialBrownie on Dec 28, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

One was the right and one was the left.

by Brownie's Year on Dec 28, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

He’s also seemed pretty committed to staying healthy after that experience. He sounds and looks like he’s doing what he needs to do.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Dec 28, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

No doubt. He worked hard to come back and it shows. Only thing that disbanded me form him was that whole “give me a good deal or I’m leaving” thing. Glad that we signed him and that he should be here for a while.

by Brownie's Year on Dec 28, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Not me, I don’t have any experience with that degree of tear.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Dec 28, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry about using your name. My bad. For some reason your name is what I connected that phrase to.

by Brownie's Year on Dec 28, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions  

No worries.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Dec 29, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I talked to my brother about this yesterday, he is a certfiied athletic trainer so he is far more qualified than me to comment on such an issue. He said once the pectoral muscle is repaired it can absolutely tear again and typically only regains somewhere in the neighbordhood of 85% of it’s former strength. He also said it’s just one of those things, you can do all you want to try and keep it healthy but if it’s going to tear again there really isn’t anything you can do to stop it. He likened it to a guy with bad ankles, no amount of rehab or anything can totally prevent another injury.

All that said I still hope we get him signed to a long term deal. We can’t afford to needlessly create holes on this team.

by PaduaDSP on Dec 29, 2011 9:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Awesome. Thanks for the info.

by Brownie's Year on Dec 29, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

He likened it to a guy with bad ankles, no amount of rehab or anything can totally prevent another injury.

And this is why I’m very careful of how I walk. I’ve broken my right ankle once, severely sprained my left ankle once, and twisted both of them at least half a dozen or more times in my life. What I have noticed though is that my brain is more aware of how to react to a sudden misstep which has helped prevent more twists.

Hopefully that trend keeps up. And hopefully Jackson’s body has adapted the same way. Although when you’re constantly beating up your body the way he does he’s at a risk than me.

Honor. Courage. Commitment.

by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 29, 2011 6:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I would like Jackson back, but I wouldn’t be opposed to drafting another MLB if there’s a stud play-maker available. I know OLB is a bigger need for us, so really any play-making LB will suffice. Jackson reminds me a lot of Andre Davis. He’s great at tackling and never quits, but has a hard time making a big play.

Honor. Courage. Commitment.

by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 28, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

not this year, he was out of position in the 3-4 imo

by athensdawg on Dec 29, 2011 12:26 AM EST up reply actions  

He is better suited for the 4-3, and his stats confirm that, but again he’s played above-average at best. I want a guy like Clay Matthews Jr. or Ray Lewis and Brian Urlacher in their prime. Here’s his career stats.

We talk so much about how we need an elite QB on offense. Well, we also need an elite LB on defense seeing as how MLB is essentially the QB of the defense. If Jackson can’t continue to improve then I wouldn’t be opposed to drafting a young kid with break-out talent to learn from Jackson’s experience.

Honor. Courage. Commitment.

by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 29, 2011 6:51 PM EST up reply actions  

MTD examines where all of the pro-bowlers were picked in the draft.

Shows the necessity of hitting on your first rounders.

by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 28, 2011 11:09 AM EST reply actions  

damn auto link button doesn’t work

linkified

by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 28, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

it says a lot of what I have thought for a while: Draft QBs, LTs, CBs, elite pass rushers, and WRs early. Its harder to find good players at those positions later on.

It’s interesting also that most elite DTs are taken early, I have always thought they bust way too much in the first, but it’s hard to get an elite one outside of then (but you don’t always need an elite pass rushing DT).

Interior lineman and RBs are easy to find later on, and sometimes even Safeties.

I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.

by bross09 on Dec 28, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

I think given what most NFL teams are doing now in the passing game safeties need to be able to do more. It just seems to me there aren’t a whole lot of good Safeties right now in the NFL right now and I think that is somewhat the reason for the league basically going pass wacky.

by PaduaDSP on Dec 28, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

I think there is a lot more to the massive amounts of passing than there not being good safeties and I don’t think that’s a huge factor. There are some really good elite safeties that can affect the passing game. A lot of them though were first rounders.

I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.

by bross09 on Dec 28, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree that there is more to it than just a lack of quality safeties. I just kind of feel like there has been a deemphasis on the safety position league wide and in response to that teams have started running out guys like Antonio Gates, Jermichael Finley and even Evan Moore in response. Guys that are too fast to be covered by LBs and to big to be covered by anyone but the league’s very best safeties. Defensive coordinators just haven’t found a way to to adjust to it yet.

Another obvious factor in the NFL going pass wacky is the NCAA going pass wacky. It seems there are a lot more quality WRs coming out of college lately from a large number of schools just throwing the crap out of the ball.

by PaduaDSP on Dec 28, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

The safety position has never been highly thought of. It’s always been where old corners go to die.

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by notthatnoise on Dec 28, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

yep. Rod Woodson is a prime example. Lott also had arguably more success with the switch and Antrell Rolle was a bust before he became a safety.

I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.

by bross09 on Dec 28, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

There’s no argument about Lott — he was a better safety than a corner, and he made the switch very early in his career because they recognized his value there.

Little known fact: Nnamdi was the switch in reverse — he was drafted as a safety.

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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I did know that about Nnamdi.

I never really got to watch, but he made some pro bowls at corner (though we all know that pro bowls aren’t everything…)

I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.

by bross09 on Dec 29, 2011 5:44 AM EST up reply actions  

He has been a very, very good corner for a long time. He wasn’t playing at that level this year.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Dec 29, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh yeah, Nnamdi is good. Forgot to clarify, I was talking about Lott. definitely seen Nnamdi

I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.

by bross09 on Dec 29, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

We’re living in an era with Reed and Polamalu and Dawkins and guys like Adrian Wilson aren’t even highly thought-of. Those three are all-time greats. Many S are asked to be more versatile now and are doing a good job. It’s a position of more importance now, but there are some really good ones in the league.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Dec 28, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Yup. And when a guy like Eric Berry comes along, he is a lock for a top 5 pick. So safeties are not getting undervalued that much.

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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s interesting also that most elite DTs are taken early, I have always thought they bust way too much in the first, but it’s hard to get an elite one outside of then (but you don’t always need an elite pass rushing DT).

I’ve said this for YEARS. Unless the DT is someone like Suh, there is just no need for spending a first for them. As they rarely perform at a pro-bowl level. Better to invest those picks in positions which have a better chance at being elite in their position

by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 28, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree.

Richard Seymour is also on the list of pro bowlers and is that kind of level of talent. Justin Smith funny enough was a DE who wasn’t an elite speed rusher but has been a dominant 3-4 DE pass rusher.

I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.

by bross09 on Dec 28, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I also always found it funny how there are usually a larger number great undrafted free agents in a draft class than later round pick

by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 28, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

the one thing about that is, each team only gets one draft pick per late round (generally) whereas the average team might sign 5-6 UDFAs and there are always a few that are considered highly sought after guys that some thought would be drafted (i.e. Rahim moore)

I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.

by bross09 on Dec 28, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

If you like a guy and don’t think he’ll be drafted, wait and pay him less.

by Brownie's Year on Dec 28, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

a lot of teams I think do this.

I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.

by bross09 on Dec 28, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with you. Just put it in different words.

by Brownie's Year on Dec 28, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Unless the DT is someone like Suh, there is just no need for spending a first for them.

Interestingly, Suh is not a pro-bowler. That’s a ridiculous snub — there were six DTs to make the pro bowl and Suh is unquestionably better than all of them.

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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 6:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Fans probably do not like him.

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by emily522 on Dec 28, 2011 7:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Indeeb.

Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.

by Simmsinns on Dec 28, 2011 7:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Popularity. Contest.
Everyone outside of Detroit dislikes the piece of shit. He has no place at the Pro Bowl understanding what it is.
Suh is an amazing player though, he’ll be All-Pro, which actually means something.

Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.

by Simmsinns on Dec 28, 2011 7:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he acted like a piece of shit, but I would vote for him as a Pro Bowler in a heartbeat.

I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.

by bross09 on Dec 29, 2011 5:45 AM EST up reply actions  

It’s not only about which round the elite players at a given position are drafted in, it’s also about how much a pro bowler at one position will help vs. another.

Pro Bowl QB helps your franchise immensely. Pro bowl WR? Not as much.

Also, I think the pro bowl speaks to popularity vs. round drafted/stats and not just talent vs. round drafted.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Dec 28, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Pro Bowl definitely speaks to popularity.

A pro bowl WR doesn’t help your team as much and some QBs can help to make their WRs elite (Brady with Welker), but to get the Andre Johnson’s, Greg Jennings, or Vincent Jackson’s of the world who can do some things that Welker can’t (because of physical limitations), you have to draft them in the first (and occasionally they slip to the 2nd like Jennings).

I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.

by bross09 on Dec 28, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Vjax was a 2nd rounder. Brandon Marshall was a 3rd rounder. So was Terell Owens. Colston was a 7th rounder. Chad Johnson was a 2nd rounder. There’s plenty of dominant WRs taken later than the first.

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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 6:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought V-Jax was late first. Also notice how quite a few slip into the 2nd round, which I mention.

I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.

by bross09 on Dec 29, 2011 5:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Well a portion of that reasoning could be linked to what Brownie’s Year was talking about, that players selected to the Pro Bowl are typically the most recognizable at that position. Who ever remembers players from the 2nd round and below as opposed to the 1st rounders who get talked about on ESPN and NFL Network on a daily from February through April?

Honor. Courage. Commitment.

by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 28, 2011 10:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Anyone know when the alternates are announced?

by Brownie's Year on Dec 28, 2011 2:02 PM EST reply actions  

Congrats to the great Joe Thomas, but D’Qwell should be on there too.

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by Heavysoviet on Dec 28, 2011 4:45 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Haden and Mack also. I’m surprised Tebow didn’ make it. Not because he is good, but because of all the popularity he has.

by lightninmcqueen on Dec 28, 2011 5:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Just because ESPN talks about Tebow all the damn time doesn’t mean people like him. Tebow is a story they beat to hell.

by Brownie's Year on Dec 28, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

If Tebow made it to the Pro Bowl then we would all know who’s really behind the Pro Bowl selection process.

Honor. Courage. Commitment.

by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 28, 2011 10:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m glad he isn’t. The Pro Bowl should be a display of the year’s best, not a popularity contest.

Ohio's premier Russian fan.

by Heavysoviet on Dec 28, 2011 5:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Don’t get me wrong i’m glad e didn’t he doesn’t deserce it. And i geuss maybe you live in denver and Tebow is all that people talk about. It gets to ya.

by lightninmcqueen on Dec 28, 2011 7:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

That was all sorts of FAIL…i live in denver is what i’m getting across

by lightninmcqueen on Dec 28, 2011 7:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

DQ

Hard to make the Pro Bowl as a linebacker when teams gashed us for close to 150 yards per game on the ground. Not saying he is not a good player.

by champion64 on Dec 28, 2011 5:05 PM EST reply actions  

ALL HAIL JOE THOMAS!!!

by athensdawg on Dec 28, 2011 7:26 PM EST reply actions  

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