What would you give for Luck?
by HenryDawg on Dec 27, 2011 10:48 PM EST
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Well as the season winds down we make our annual push to the draft. This is no longer our daddy's AFC Central. 3 yards and a cloud of dust isn't going to cut it anymore. Looking ahead I see too many people with respected opinions like Rufio, and Rod of Disaster, who is even a UT alum, who do not think Colt is the QBOTF.
That's a bummer because it would have been nice to have had that settled. At least we don't have a QB controversy. At least not yet. While not unanimous, its becoming pretty clear that DBNers think we should draft a QB in the 2012 draft and we should get one high.
The Browns have drafted two first round QBs since 1999. Most believe that Tim Couch was put into an impossible position with the offensive line we had but could have been really good. Brady Quinn was picked in the bottom third of the first round, meaning a lot of teams passed on him, but even worse is that he held out of training camp and then was completely mismanaged. It never worked out.
But in either case I think we have a much better team now than what we gave to Couch and probably to Quinn. Sure we don't have the world's best wide receivers but Little has shown dramatic improvement in the last few games and Norwood is looking like a pretty darn good slot receiver. Add a speedy burner (Heckert drafted Desean Jackson once already) to stretch the field and we have a pretty good looking set of receivers. We have a very decent offensive line, featuring the best lineman in the business. Securing a healthy right tackle and the return of Eric Steinbach just makes it that much better. The defense has really improved over the last two drafts and has a nice mix of veterans and youngsters all playing well while learning the new system.
So that means we need to strike now to add a QB. Andrew Luck is within reach. He's a perfect fit for the WCO and he's excelled this year even with pretty lousy receivers. The guy just isn't going to make excuses. We have more bullets in the chamber than any other team to move into the #1 slot and get the best QB prospect since Manning or Elway. I'm not going to go into why Andrew Luck would be great for Cleveland. If you can't figure that out, there's a team a little to the east you can go root for.
So here's the question: How much are you willing to give up to make that move?
Personally I would go as far as both firsts this year and next, but would try to just make it this year's ones and maybe a third and fourth (we have an extra fourth). In essence that would be like trading Julio Jones for Andrew Luck, Taylor, Sheard, Little and I think Marecic. That would be the greatest trade since Herschel Walker.
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I would be perfectly happy with RG3 but I think we may have to use a trade to get him as well. If we’re going to trade we might as well get Luck who is a better fit for this offense. That said, I would love to get Griffin and Kendall Wright and run our offense to their strengths. Shurmur coached Donovan McNabb right from the start and he was much more a running QB than RG3 is so I think it could work.
Donovan McNabb right from the start and he was much more a running QB than RG3
Huh?
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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
Sure we don’t have the world’s best wide receivers but Little has shown dramatic improvement in the last few games and Norwood is looking like a pretty darn good slot receiver. Add a speedy burner (Heckert drafted Desean Jackson once already) to stretch the field and we have a pretty good looking set of receivers.
Wouldn’t it make sense to find a tall, speed threat say like a Randy Moss/Terrell Owens type player instead of drafting a smaller speed guy similar to DeSean if we’re going to keep Norwood in the slot? Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t Jackson best utilized when he catches from the open field and dances around DBs like you would expect from a slot receiver? It’s similar to what we once had with Dennis Northcutt. I think Little could be our #2 in the likes of Joe Jurevicious or Quincy Morgan. Find a true, stud WR to be our #1.
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by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 28, 2011 12:07 AM EST reply actions
Get guys who are fast and good receivers. Don’t worry so much about how big they are, worry about what they can do. Guys like DeSean and Welker are complete receivers. You can put them anywhere inside or out and they will be able to get it done.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
This.
I take this optimism shit seriously.
"Who gives two shits about Matt Roth besides Matt Roth and Matt Roth’s mom?" - LocalMan
by The Licensed Optimist on Dec 28, 2011 9:05 AM EST up reply actions
I agree that we need to find WRs that are really good at what they’re supposed to do (ie. running routes, getting separation from defenders, CATCHING THE BALL…). But I think one of our bigger issues is that we don’t open up the field more with a deep threat. Yeah, you could put the blame on McCoy’s weak arm, but who do we have now that is capable of running deep posts? We thought Massaquoi could, but apparently he can’t fight for the ball because of his small frame.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 28, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
A lot of teams do a lot better than us without a bunch of pro-bowl WRs. We need better WRs, no doubt, but the main problem is with the QB, not the WRs.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
this is wrong, and everyone knows it
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
I was watching the Baltimore game again and MoMass was open deep twice and Seneca couldn’t deliver the ball.
In the first Pittsburgh game, Colt was scrambling and Moore started to turn up field like he should and Colt underthrew him by a mile and Polamalu picked it.
We don’t have the fastest receivers but not having a QB who can get the ball to them deep is more of a problem. Justin Blackmon isn’t going to stretch the field if the longest pass we can throw is a 45 yard rainbow with perfectly set feet.
I agree with Henry here. I have gone to a few games this year. You get a great perspective on the whole field as opposed to sitting at home watching the tube. Our receivers get open more often than you think. I’ve seen it. Colt just isn’t getting them the ball.
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No, most people agree with him. Chicago’s WRs are worse than ours, and they stretched the field.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 29, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
No, most people agree with him. Chicago’s WRs are worse than ours, and they stretched the field.
I agree with on the first part. But I don’t think we have better WRs than Chicago.
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The way I see it, Greg Little>Johnny Knox. Roy Williams=momass, Bennett=Cribbs, Hester is a CB. He also has no legit TE now that Olsen is gone.
I don’t think it’s like we are world’s ahead, but I think our WRs are better, especially over the middle. The problem is we have no deep threat.
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I was actually thinking just get Jackson in free agency. Also its tough to just say “get a Randy Moss” like they’re everyday occurences. There’s a reason they called him Freak.
Shows what you know, I picked up two Randy Moss’s and a T.O. at Walmart yesterday in the clearance section.
I take this optimism shit seriously.
"Who gives two shits about Matt Roth besides Matt Roth and Matt Roth’s mom?" - LocalMan
by The Licensed Optimist on Dec 28, 2011 9:07 AM EST up reply actions
I know what you mean, but although I don’t know much about these draft prospects just yet, I hear Blackmon is in the same mold as those big, fast WR. I wouldn’t be opposed to Jackson either, but he would cost more money which we could save for a bigger impact FA if there’s one out there.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 28, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t trade up for him, BTW. It’d difficult for me to consider trading up for any player. And it’s not just because I’m still rooting for McCoy, which I am, but rather it doesn’t make sense to me when we still have many positions of needs to fill, as always. I could understand it if we were a player or two away and some of these other high draft picks we’ve got weren’t absolutely necessary, but we’re one of the worst teams in retaining our high draft picks, and that trend has got to end.
We’re not helping our team by giving away so much potential talent to rest in the hands of one single player no matter how much potential he has. Luck certainly looks legit, but even though most of the elite QBs are selected in the first round it’s something like 50/50 of actually getting one of those decent QBs anyway. I just don’t trust those odds even if it doesn’t seem like that big of a risk.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 28, 2011 12:16 AM EST reply actions
The trend of not retaining high draft picks has ended. We’ve traded back in two of the last three drafts to acquire more picks.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 28, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Which is good news to me. I would be shocked and appalled if we gave up as much as HenryDawg suggests we should to move up for Luck.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 28, 2011 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
I would give away an entire draft for a franchise QB.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 29, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
Not OK using 3 1st to get Luck. We have too many needs to fill.
But if we end up doing it, I won’t throw a fit.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 28, 2011 12:18 AM EST reply actions
what if we draft him and he pulls a e. manning and refuses to sign? that be a big shit show
we are all Kipnises...
the league needs to find a way to penalize players for this kind of action. If we traded and he pulled an elway or a manning, then we should retain his rights for no less than 10 years, and after 2 years we regain the draft spot (which would be the 1st pick). I would never allow a player to pull this crap if I was the commish, they would just be hated and screwed – never allowed to play in the nfl.
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
There are definite repercussions. The team doesn’t have to trade the player. They could let the player sit out of football for a whole year, take a huge hit in draft stock, and be drafted much later, costing them a lot of money.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 29, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
Nothing Luck has ever said has led anyone to believe he would do this.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I didn’t know that, that’s kind of cool.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 30, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
I’m all for it.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 30, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
Charlie Frye, Brady Quinn, Andrew Luck.
One of these things is not like the others…
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
One of these things is not like the others…
Haha boot camp flashback.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 31, 2011 1:53 AM EST up reply actions
Charlie Frye, Brady Quinn, Andrew Luck.
One of these things is not like the others…
I think I got it . . . Quinn is the only one whose last name starts with more than four letters! Yes!
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 31, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I personally find the idea of trading both first rounders this year to be absurd, even if we were guaranted a franchise quarterback.
Ass backwards? Quite possibly, but that’s just how I feel. I’d rather use those two picks separately to add some pieces to our offense because, and this is probably just me, I happen to think that McCoy’s grown enough this year to hold down the starting position for at least another season or two. I’m not going to give the usual apologist’s reasoning of dropped passes (although we DO lead the league in them) or a lack of talent, and I’ll even admit that he looked pretty bad some what should have been sure-thing throws earlier in the season. But his accuracy’s picked up and he’s made much better throws since the beginning.
Will I cry if we end up drafting Luck by virtue of a trade-up? Not really. I’ve been on the Luck bandwagon since pre-season. But I will be a disappointed that we never got to see McCoy back in the system with a chance to continue to grow and prove that we didn’t need Luck to begin with. That and the fact that I can expect another new Browns QB jersey for xmas (McCoy’s last year, Quinn’s two years before that).
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I kind of hope that whoever we draft in the first at QB, we also give Colt a chance to start. I think Colt has a real opportunity, at least the first year, to win the starting job over a rookie. I think we should give him a shot because I hate handing the reins off to a rookie QB automatically and I think Colt probably should start from day 1 in 2012
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Well it would be unlike Holmgren to allow Shurmur to start Luck right away. Unless the team plans on trading Colt, I would be surprised to see us draft Luck and keep McCoy. Why draft Luck expecting he’ll be our future starter and yet allow Colt to start as an opportunity to prove himself as an elite NFL QB? What happens if in that scenario Colt flourishes and Luck sits on the bench for the next 3-4 seasons. We would probably have to trade him for a lot less value than originally selected for having to give up 3 1sts and HenryDawg suggests we should do.
Unless the intention is to start Luck right away and keep Colt as a backup there really doesn’t seem to be any room on this team for both players. If that happened we could almost certainly say good bye to Seneca Wallace because I’m sure he would refuse to play 3rd string.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 28, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
and yet allow Colt to start as an opportunity to prove himself as an elite NFL QB?
unlikely, but that just creates a good trading opportunity. Like the chargers had with Brees/Rivers.
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But in that scenario Drew Brees is above and beyond a much better QB than Philip Rivers. If we had the same situation I would rather keep McCoy and let go of Luck which again would mean we wasted draft picks for no reason. Of course this is all hypothetical, and probably has less than 1% ever happening, but that’s the way I see it if it did occur.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 29, 2011 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
so you are justifying keeping mccoy over Luck based off of a loose analogy?
Honestly, I take Rivers based on the information in front of them. That was clearly the best decision and he had the better skill set, it just didn’t work out. A lot of that comes down to the team around the player and the coaching. Coaching is huge in this scenario because Rivers should have had more success in the playoffs considering his play and the play of those around him. Norv absolutely sucks.
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Norv absolutely sucks.
As a HC, yes. He’s probably a very good OC.
I take this optimism shit seriously.
"Who gives two shits about Matt Roth besides Matt Roth and Matt Roth’s mom?" - LocalMan
by The Licensed Optimist on Dec 29, 2011 7:59 PM EST up reply actions
no question on that. as an OC, he wouldn’t have squandered Rivers’ chances at postseason success.
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You’re the one who supplied the analogy.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 29, 2011 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
that’s not at all the point. if you take an analogy that literal, you really don’t get the point of them.
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Ass backwards?
Yep.
McCoy’s grown enough this yearNope.
he looked pretty bad some what should have been sure-thing throwsYep.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 28, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
I am between the first and second options. I’d easily give up both firsts this year, but it will take more. A second next year or some combination of 3rd and lower picks plus both 1sts this year would be what I would give up.
I wouldn’t throw a fit if we used 3 firsts to get Luck, I wouldn’t throw a fit if we stayed put and drafted RG3, I wouldn’t throw a fit if we didn’t draft a QB high at all. The only conceivable fit-throwing I could do would be Richardson. And I think he is going to be great in the NFL.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
We need a QB. Most likely we need to draft one, and high. I agree with everything you said, but by the same token… If not now, when? We’ll never have as many bullets as we do now, there’s rarely a QB this low risk, and it’s the “perfect” time, regime-wise, to get him.
Basically, I’ll go out on a limb and say I’d be disappointed with Blackmon (or whoever else at 4) and another starter (DE?) with Atlanta’s pick. I think that makes us, in this division, another 4-12 team next season…
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I agree with you that the timing is right and there isn’t going to be a better prospect for awhile. We can’t keep putting it off.
We could stick with McCoy but him being the QBOTF is as much a gamble as Luck.
We could stick with McCoy but him being the QBOTF is as much a gamble as Luck.
Again, Huh? Luck is as big a gamble as McCoy?!? Can I interest you in a game of poker?
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sticking with McCoy is a much bigger risk.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 29, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
Bigger than Luck and the massive lot of first rounds it takes to get him? I don’t think McCoy is good, but I disagree.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
I agree as well. Betting it all on Luck makes me very nervous.
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I concur.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 29, 2011 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
This.
I take this optimism shit seriously.
"Who gives two shits about Matt Roth besides Matt Roth and Matt Roth’s mom?" - LocalMan
by The Licensed Optimist on Dec 29, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 30, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly.
Not.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 31, 2011 1:54 AM EST up reply actions
If we give up a bunch of first round picks and he fails, we’re kind of screwed.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
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Then, as someone on here frequently says, we keep trying. If you don’t have a franchise QB, you keep trying until you find him.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
Agreed on everything.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 28, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
The only answer I really have to the “why not now” question is RGIII. Will the dropoff between him and Luck end up being worth an extra first plus some?
I think it will take more than just this year’s firsts to get Luck.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I think know it will take more than just this year’s firsts to get Luck.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 28, 2011 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
The scary part is that I think there is a real possibility that a team is gonna try to trade into the number 2 spot to draft RG3. Yeah, I think we would take him at 4 or 5, whatever out pick ends up being. But, there is a good chance the Redskins try to trade into the 2 or 3 spot to get ahead of us.
We’ll never have as many bullets as we do now, there’s rarely a QB this low risk, and it’s the "perfect" time, regime-wise, to get him.
All of this. If there is a time to pull the trigger it’s now. If there is a guy to pull the trigger for, it’s Luck. If there is a team with the ammo to get Luck, it’s us. Perfect storm.
We have to root for Indy to win and the Rams to lose on Sunday to make it happen though.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
Low risk? For three 1st rounders (minimum!) and the fact that expectations are already so high he may not be able to reach them?
I take this optimism shit seriously.
"Who gives two shits about Matt Roth besides Matt Roth and Matt Roth’s mom?" - LocalMan
by The Licensed Optimist on Dec 29, 2011 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
no option for “my left nut”?
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He’d only have two left after that though!
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by BrownDawg1409 on Dec 28, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
i cant wait to see luck be the biggest draft pick dissappointment since the fat purple dranker that oakland drafted.
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
Does anyone else think that sounds like a racial comment?
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 28, 2011 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
Jamarcus Russel had problems with his weight and has been arrested for codeine abuse.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 29, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, my bad. I wasn’t aware of this actually being a story.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 29, 2011 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
As it stands right now, I think we will end up with the #3 pick overall. The Colts will take Luck. I also think another team will trade up to snag RG3 with the #2 pick, meaning that unless we draft Blackmon, we should probably trade out of our first pick. I really don’t mind. The more draft picks we get, the better.
Atlanta’s pick is more difficult to predict, but the way they’re looking lately, I wouldn’t be too surprised if they’re a one and done in the playoffs and their picks ends up being in the early 20s.
I take this optimism shit seriously.
"Who gives two shits about Matt Roth besides Matt Roth and Matt Roth’s mom?" - LocalMan
by The Licensed Optimist on Dec 28, 2011 9:03 AM EST reply actions
Chicago is doing bad but I dunno if they are doing THAT bad
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What does Chicago have to do with this? Am I missing something?
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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
OK — I got it.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
Colts and Rams will be ahead of us, but I think the Vikings win this weekend. That will put them at #4.
I take this optimism shit seriously.
"Who gives two shits about Matt Roth besides Matt Roth and Matt Roth’s mom?" - LocalMan
by The Licensed Optimist on Dec 28, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
Wow that’s crazy. If we are 3 we can get RG3 unless Washington or someone else trades with STL to move into the 2 spot and snags him. If its one of the 4 loss teams that would give STL a shot at getting Blackmon and one of the top LTs in one shot. We would be screwed not being able to draft our QB, I guess we would have to go Blackmon then.
It’s not as crazy as I thought at first. Chicago is 7-8 now and is on a losing streak that is just awful. Chicago also has to travel to minny who is a rival, which is definitely not easy.
Chicago’s losing streak has been so bad that they lost to KC during their awful losing streak that was only stopped by RAC beating the packers. KC lost 5 of 6 during that period and their only win was going TO chicago and beating them. That’s bad.
And before minny’s recent win, they had 5 games in a row against teams above .500 who are definitely in the hunt.
Not likely, but I think it will be a popular upset pick this week.
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BTW, to anyone who doubts the impact of a QB, look at the Texans and the Bears.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 28, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
exactly what I am thinking. Then again the Bears also lost Forte, but they could have survived without Forte and with Cutler much easier than vice versa.
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Also, Colts. Also, San Diego. Also, just about any team in the playoffs.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
rufio, speaking of the Chargers, your opinion please. I think there is a better chance than not that Norv Turner is let go after this season. If he is, would he make a good candidate for offensive coordinator?
I take this optimism shit seriously.
"Who gives two shits about Matt Roth besides Matt Roth and Matt Roth’s mom?" - LocalMan
by The Licensed Optimist on Dec 28, 2011 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
Norv is done in SD. I’d like the idea of him being our OC, but he is not a WC offense guy really. Also, I think he would probably sit a year and collect his salary rather than go right back to coaching. I mean, why not? Of course, if we drafted a guy like Luck, he might want to be OC to help shape him. He was a big part of Troy Aikman’s development supposedly.
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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
No. He’s best as an O coordinator, and some smart team might realize that, but some dumb team will think he’s a HC—I don’t think he’ll be available in the first place.
He also doesn’t fit well with out coaching/front office tree, he’s from a different system. He’s a good coordinator, but I don’t think he’ll be on our radar.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
The only problem is that we are going to beat the crap out of the Steelers this weekend, so I think we are going to end up around 6 or 7. Sorry.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I don’t have confidence in Seneca to win us a game against a good team honestly.
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The Vike’s no longer have A. Peterson to take the heat off of Ponder and Chicago still has a pretty mean D. I’m not too confident. Chicago also just started McCown for the first time over Hanie last week and got smoked – yeah, I know it was G.B. – but….
What does that MEAN - TO PLAY US OUT?!!?!?
Chicago has no Forte and has been playing horrible
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We’re not gonna get the number 3 pick. I don’t even think its possible? Colts, Rams, Vikings are gonna be ahead of us.
Vikings will win this weekend. That leaves us at #3.
I take this optimism shit seriously.
"Who gives two shits about Matt Roth besides Matt Roth and Matt Roth’s mom?" - LocalMan
by The Licensed Optimist on Dec 29, 2011 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
then we get #4.
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Okay. I see if the Vikings win, but the Colts also win, we’ll still be at number 4. So it’s not a lock that we get 3 just because the Vikings win.
Maybe I’m crazy, but I think MJD is going to run rampant all over the Colt defense. I think the Jags win.
I take this optimism shit seriously.
"Who gives two shits about Matt Roth besides Matt Roth and Matt Roth’s mom?" - LocalMan
by The Licensed Optimist on Dec 29, 2011 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
We can eliminate “both 2011 first rounders” as an option. Sorry, but that’s going to be far from enough to have a shot at Andrew Luck. There’s a team out there that can offer much more than the 5th and 24 or so picks.
That’s a comical offer, right?
But he’s right that option 2 is probably not going to be enough. I think it would likely cost this year’s and next year’s firsts plus additional later round picks. I’ll be very surprised to see our FO push all their chips to the middle of the table and bet the farm on Luck If they want a QB that bad RG3 will probably be there for us at #4 anyway. H&H just don’t seem to me like the wild eyed gambler types.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 28, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Still not sure if its true but remember Holmgren wanted to trade his entire draft for Bradford?
I did actually mean for the first choice to be both first rounders + some other picks, 3rd and 4th rounders, maybe a player
Heckert wanted to give Philly 2 1st for Kolb. These guys aren’t scared to deal. but they’ll do what they think is best for the long run.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 28, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Heckert wanted to give Philly 2 1st for Kolb.
Source? I’ve never heard that before at all — I heard that is what Philly wanted for him in the 2010 offseason (before they traded McNabb) but that we were not at all interested in paying that price.
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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
I also already read somewhere the our F.O. doesn’t like RGIII because he spends too much time in the Shotgun and they’ve seen how that worked out with Colt. Sorry, can’t remember where I read it.
What does that MEAN - TO PLAY US OUT?!!?!?
I don’t think this is true at all. Bradford spent a lot of time in the gun and they love him.
Many of the QBs that will be coming out of college will have spent a lot of time in the gun. This should be borderline irrelevant to their evaluation.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Exactly, the list of great NFL QBs who spent the majority of their time in college in the shotgun is very, very, very long.
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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
Well, I think I hope you are right, but I’m sure I did read this somewhere
What does that MEAN - TO PLAY US OUT?!!?!?
Anytime any reporters asks one of them a question about a guy being from a “spread” system, you’ll probably get the same canned response about needing to be able to read the defense from under center, handle the snap, and learn new footwork to be able to get to where they need to be from under center.
It’s all important stuff, but hardly the hardest thing about the transition. Making the transition from playing college defenses that are much much slower and give away their coverage on every snap to ones who field LBs who all run 4.5 and can line up with a safety on the line of scrimmage who bails out to cover the deep half is a lot more difficult.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
There was a fanshot here posted once, Heckert said it directly to the interviewer. He said he would give whatever Philly wanted.
If he did say that, I’d be surprised if he was serious. It wouldn’t exacly reflect very well on Heckert if it is the truth. Kolb isn’t exactly tearing it up down there in Arizona.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 30, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah – interesting, but it looks to me like he was just being complimentary toward Kolb (and toward the Eagles organization). His quote was after the deal was done with Arizona. Doesn’t really mean much IMO.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 30, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
I think it was at a time when the deal with the Cardinals was pretty much wrapped up. IMO it was probably more of a complimentary comment toward Kolb and the Eagles than it was a serious statement.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 30, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
I think you may be mixing up the years, but this was a full year prior to the trade and also when the Eagles were planning on starting him over Michael Vick. Kolb started the first game and Vick came in relief in 2010. This fanshot was from July of 2010.
You’re right, I had completely misinterpreted because I didn’t dig into the timeline and the context. So I re-read it and dug a little deeper and read the original referenced article.
The quote from Heckert was as follows: “Whatever Andy wanted, I would have given him. A one (draft pick), a two … two ones. No joke. Kolb is legit.”.
If you dig deeper and read the story, that quote was from 2007, when he was still with the Eagles and was “toying with taking a post with the Falcons, pre-Matt Ryan…”
(from the original article with the quote from Heckert).
Maybe I’m still misinterpreting something(?) If so, let me know, but unless I’m missing something it seems to me given the context and timeline the original quote from heckert is pretty much meaningless.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 30, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
If that’s true, why don’t we have Kevin Kolb then?
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by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 30, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry, there’s just no way that alone our two first-rounders are going to come close to being the final offer that a team would accept.
Put it this way, if we were in that situation trading Luck away (I know, sounds insane) would you take the 5th and 24th? Hell no. Heck, we arguably got more for Julio Jones than they’d be getting for Luck.
We wouldn’t trade Luck away because we need a QB so that analogy is worthless. However, if the Rams get that pick, it is likely that they will trade him away.
That being said, I 100 percent agree that two 1s this year is not enough — we need to at least add in next year’s 1 as well. A high price, but the Rams will be getting offers pretty high for it, but I don’t think anyone can match that price.
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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
The analogy is legit because it assumes we already have a franchise QB on our roster and somehow had the chance to draft Luck too.
Good to see you agree that two 1’s from 2011 is clearly not good enough.
we already have a franchise QB on our roster
I can understand if you aren’t ready to give up on Colt yet, but you cannot say this with any kind of authority as though we had Aaron Rodgers and there were no debate about it.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I read his comment as saying this: put yourself in the Rams’ or Colts’ shoes. Would you trade the 1st overall pick and the best QB prospect since Good Manning for just our 2012 first rounders? I wouldn’t even if I had a Manning or Bradford on my roster already.
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THANKS Adrock. Good to see someone read me correctly. Not sure where I said we were in that situation!
I’d say it’s more like I think he can be an average NFL QB and I want the rest of the team upgraded with Colt being given one more year before someone is drafted over him.
Considering your Colt man love
With the orgy of drooling RG3 and Andrew Luck man love going on around here lately this little jab comes across pretty lame. I mean seriously, just look at the title of your post :-/
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 30, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t blame anyone for talking up RG3 and Andrew Luck prospects.
Just making the point that the snarky “Colt man love” comment was unnecessary IMO.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 30, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
I probably wouldn’t have said it if I wasn’t replying to his snarky comment about me not understanding him.
Is there an age restriction here? There should be an “adults only” listed on the homepage.
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by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 30, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
We can offer more ammo than anyone, unless teams are willing to include players in the deal.
The only other team with two 1st rounders is Cincy and both of theirs will easily be outside of the top 16 and at least one (maybe 2) will be in the 20s.
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I don’t think there is any chance in hell they trade up for luck.
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We’ve seen Mike Brown make some ridiculous decisions in the past, but as of recently he seems to be recovering pretty well from his alzheimers so I wouldn’t expect it either.
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by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 28, 2011 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not, but players don’t usually get thrown in these kinds of deals — unless it’s Mangini and the Jets are offering a bunch of junk.
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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
I just feel if Luck is as good as everyone says and a team wants him but doesn’t have enough picks they’re simply going to do the other thing they can which is add players.
Again, someone who thinks he’s phenomenal is going to do everything in their power to get him which means that thinking they won’t include players is pretty questionable I think.
but players don’t usually get thrown in these kinds of deals
exactly. Plus, trying to predict adding any sort of players for a trade in the draft is even more speculative than predicting trades, with most (if not all) people who write mocks refrain from including. That’s a factor that you can’t at all predict and rarely happens.
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OT I am so mad that Columbus is showing the Bengals-Ravens game over Cle-Pitt. Sure it has playoff implications but they can’t even watch it in their home market, why do we have to?
OT: I find the blackout rule a money grubbing policy that I would like addressed in the next lockout. I have never liked the idea of punishing fans who can’t afford the exorbitant price for tickets but still buy jerseys and support the industry.
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fans who can’t afford the exorbitant price for tickets but still buy jerseys
Jerseys are more expensive than tickets. The fan that can afford one but not the other doesn’t exist. There are tons of fans who can’t afford both or can’t afford either, but there are no fans who can buy a jersey but could not have bought a ticket instead.
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by notthatnoise on Dec 28, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
Jerseys are also something tangible which is why some buy them.
Either way, I have never liked the idea of blackouts personally. Its just my opinion and I don’t think any other sport does it, or at least does it just by sellouts (then again, in baseball teams can’t sell out every single game).
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NFL teams have to sell out in order to prevent their games from being blacked out? Personally I agree with black outs a great deal. Why offer a city an NFL team if people aren’t willing to go. I’ve never been a person with a lot of money. I earned $10.50 or less in the 5 years I spent at my last job while living in Columbus, and I have still been able to attend about 6 or 7 games throughout that same period. I would certainly be going to at least a couple games a year if I wasn’t stationed in San Diego. I think the bigger issue about it all is that people are beginning to lose the luster of being in a real stadium rooting for their fans by buying that big LED TV and sitting on their butts at home every Sunday.
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by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 28, 2011 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
I think the bigger issue about it all is that people are beginning to lose the luster of being in a real stadium rooting for their fans by buying that big LED TV and sitting on their butts at home every Sunday.
I disagree. All these packages (which the teams still make money on) don’t seem to have majorly affected ticket sales. There have been drops in some cities (like Cincy) that can be traced back to a tough economy in a recession.
I spent at my last job while living in Columbus, and I have still been able to attend about 6 or 7 games throughout that same period.
well we at DBN and these kinds of message boards are die hard fans. We will go to games, or try to go (if we are in the area) more often because of our passion for the team. Die hard support is fairly consistent and what is variable is the casual fan which all sports try to bring in and it’s much harder for that fan to justify going to these games when they are tightening their belts.
I get the argument for blackouts, but like I said I don’t really agree.
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But that raises another question to me: if these are simply casual fans complaining that their team isn’t on local TV then why offer them football to begin with? This is their last game for the regular season, and their playoff hopes weigh heavily on this game.
If I were a fan of the Bengals in the Cincinnati area there’s no way I wouldn’t be going unless I had a higher priority like work. I would’ve said to the family, “Screw Christmas, kids. We’re going to the Bengals game.”
And it’s not like only diehard fans get on message boards. At times I’ve seen rather casual fans making posts without much sincerity toward our team.
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by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 29, 2011 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
if these are simply casual fans complaining that their team isn’t on local TV then why offer them football to begin with?
The bigger question is why not let them watch? Why is it the NFL that has the rules about blackouts when no other leagues to my knowledge do? They by far have the highest prices for single game tickets (~115 per ticket in 2011 compared to around 45-50 for the NBA and NHL) and the NFL has really lucrative TV deals anyways?
It’s not like they lose if some fans don’t want to spend over 100 dollars a person for a ticket.
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The high prices for NFL games as compared to MLB, NHL, or NBA games can be attributed to basic economics and marketing management. I’m sure you know about the rules of supply and demand. I don’t want to sound like I’m belittling you with an explanation unless you’re really unaware then I’ll fill you in if you like.
As far as the NFL in general losing money on low attendance, no I’m sure the high executives like Goodell would care less about it if it didn’t look ugly from a media standpoint because of how lucrative the TV deals are. But it’s the individual stadiums that are losing out on the money. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t believe any of the stadium personnel see that TV money. And I’m sure even the owners themselves rely heavily on that ticket money in order to run their franchise.
Bottom line: if the fans lose incentive to go to the games because they would rather stay at home for any given reason then there’s no reason for there to be stadiums anymore. If that happened the majority of the teams revenue would come from the TV contracts and then everyone’s cable bills would be ridiculously overpriced, which I imagine would cause more outrage as opposed to blacking out a game here and there.
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by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 29, 2011 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
The thing you want to keep in mind is that they all split the TV and merchandise revenue. Ticket sales are one of the few ways that individual teams earn more than others. The NFL is one of the most socialist entities in this country and in the world. It’s not in the owners or players interest to show programs locally if the local public doesn’t buy tickets because they’re getting TV money no matter what. They only benefit from ticket sales and stadium sales. Baseball and basketball make most of their revenue from individual team TV contracts. Think of the Yankees contract with Yes network, the Reds with Fox Sports or the Indians who chose to create their own network STO. There’s absolutely nothing for the owners or players to gain by not blacking out.
Yeah, I can agree with that, which is why I think it’s a good idea for teams to black out a game if it’s necessary. As much as we all try to deny it, the NFL is all about making money and nothing else. That much we should all know by know with the most recent lockout situation.
But I still think specifically the major issue Cincinnati is having with their fans is that they’re all fat and lazy.
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by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 30, 2011 1:11 AM EST up reply actions
the funny thing is, while the tickets are the major way teams make more than others and it’s in the best interest of owners to black out games if they don’t get ticket money, they do make a lot of efforts not to have to black out games.
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I know, also it doesn’t really help the fan base if they can’t see the product on TV. My family moved to OH when I was a little kid so watching the Browns every weekend is why I love them now. I doubt that happens if they were always blacked out.
that’s a good point. putting it on TV can increase exposure.
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That was true 30-40 years ago, but this is almost 2012. Everyone and their mother knows how great the NFL is nowadays. The NFL will always advertise, but it’s so big now they wouldn’t even have to if they chose not to. I don’t even think the NFL makes their own advertisements. All you ever see are companies paying them to use their logo and name to get them exposure for whichever brand is the “NFL Official Sponsor.”
Just look at the recent lockout as another example. When all of us are moaning and complaining about the possibility of not having football there were fans out there threatening to boycott the season if there was one. Yeah, right. The NFL has it’s fans wrapped around it’s fingers. Blacking out games throughout a season will hardly affect viewer interest.
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by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 30, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
if the fans lose incentive to go to the games because they would rather stay at home for any given reason then there’s no reason for there to be stadiums anymore.
the problem is that when there have been cases of multiple blacked out games in a season, there hasn’t shown any gain of incentive. Basically, if blacking out is seriously increasing fan incentive to go, then why did it take a 2 for 1 deal for the playoff contending Bengals to sell out?
If blackouts have shown us anything, it’s that more people maybe would go to games if they were a tad less expensive.
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Or it has shown that Ohio doesn’t need two football teams. Maybe the Bengals should be moved elsewhere. People always talk about moving the Jaguars because no one ever shows up to their games no matter if they’re good or bad. I don’t know why the Bengals never get mentioned in these talks?
If fans don’t start showing up, they just might end up in LA. A possible 10 win season, potential playoff spot and they had to give tickets away? Bad move, Bungles fans.
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by The Licensed Optimist on Dec 30, 2011 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
I am not gonna argue shitting on the bengals…
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It would also help if they stopped asking taxpayers to foot the bill for multimillion dollar stadiums and then didn’t share any of the revenue back (except the usual taxes).
probably also not a bad idea. though this is bordering on almost too political
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Looks like they were listening to you:
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Bengals-to-reduce-ticket-prices-for-2012.html
That much I won’t argue, that ticket prices are too high. But the demand is high, so the prices will continue to be high.
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by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 30, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
But the demand is high, so the prices will continue to be high.
partially because it functions as a monopoly but that’s a whole different story.
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This is because we’re talking about Cincinnati where normal logic doesn’t apply. You don’t see these problems with other teams like our Browns because we’re reasonable people.
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by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 30, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
I am not gonna argue shitting on the bengals…or Cincinnati
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You don’t have to. I will though.
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by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 31, 2011 1:55 AM EST up reply actions
Increasing stadium revenue helps both players and owners, I don’t think this will happen. Why would they choose to argue over that?
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Exactly. The fans are not parties to the CBA so I don’t see it being addressed in a lockout or strike.
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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
A jersey costs the same as going to 2 games. There are plenty of people in the Cinci area that can afford tickets but don’t go their games.
It’s probably more of a case of Bengals fans not being the brightest of people, and aren’t capable of managing their money and time wisely enough to figure out why their games are blacked out so often.
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by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 28, 2011 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
Yup. Look what we gave up for Brady Quinn — a first the next year and a second (only about 10 picks back) the same year. Luck is a much, much, much, much better prospect than BQ. He’s worth losing our first next year for him. And coming out of the first round with Andrew Luck is a successful first round, even if it cost you two picks in the round to do it.
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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
do you guys really have enough weapons to have any qb succeed?
i don’t follow this team at all just want them to do well after their terrible history. with that being said do you have a top 15 runningback, two good solid receivers and two solid tight ends? how good are your starting five on the o-line? is the defense a top 15 defense or do you need more pieces to field a solid one? if you guys have too many questions to answer then a new qb isn’t going to hide those deficiencies no matter how well they play.
look at carolina. they have a really good qb and they still lose games. football is a team game and until you guys can put together a solid team you will continue to struggle. its sucks that you have to dethrone baltimore and pittsburgh for the title but those are the teams that you guys have to beat first on a yearly basis to be successful. ill be looking forward to seeing what information i have wrong on your team.
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by NoSafetiesNeeded on Dec 28, 2011 1:47 PM EST reply actions
If you have the QB, you can definitely find the receivers. Getting the QB is infinitely harder to do.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Look at what Cutler was able to do with Sanzenbacher? Or Peyton with Blair White?
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I don’t think Jordy Nelson and James Jones are all that good, either. Same with Lance Moore, Marques Colston, etc.
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I didn’t include Jordy because I was kinda going with UDFA kinda guys who were found in the “scrap heap” (a phrase I meant to include) and Jordy I believe was a 2nd round guy.
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Colston is pretty damn good.
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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
I think Colston is good. Not that good, but good.
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by notthatnoise on Dec 29, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t know Jordy has made a few awesome catches this year. I’m sure he’s helped a lot by the QB play, but he has some skill
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by Gabe Durrant on Dec 29, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
Jordy does have some nice skills. He wasn’t a UDFA guy with limited skills like a Sanzenbacher, but he does have his limitations and is definitely helped out by Rodgers.
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All of the guys I mentioned are solid players who are made much, much better by their QBs. There aren’t a lot of receivers in the NFL who are just outright terrible and without any sort of skill.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I’d say it’s pretty obvious they aren’t outright terrible.
I guess I look at it as Jordy is a guy who can much more easily find a place and be a productive receiver on an offense where Rodgers isn’t the QB.
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I’d take Jordy Nelson.
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I think he would be our #2 WR here just based on the skills he brought with him from college.
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But he would look a whole lot worse here.
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no doubt.
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We’ve been through this argument a hundred times. bross answered your question pretty well. Chicago’s receivers are a step below ours.
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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
I like Dane and all, but this is spot on. Cutler was getting it done with mostly garbage at WR. Their best receivers are a converted CB and a receiver who is basically just a deep threat
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Funny story. Daniel Wolf was tweeting about how Cutler has a similar adjusted pass rating (or something from Pro Football Focus) to Cutler and that shows how good Colt is because Cutler has a “number 1 receiver” while Colt doesn’t. So I tweeted him and asked who Cutler’s number 1 receiver is . . . his answer? Earl Bennet!!! It’s funny the lengths that Colt apologists will go to sometimes.
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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
haha. I don’t know if Earl Bennett is his 3rd. He doesn’t have a #1 receiver, he has 4 #3 receivers. He has a big Roy Williams who can’t catch, the two I mentioned, and a slot/possession guy in Bennett.
Honestly, Little may be as good as any of them and this is ignoring the fact that PINKSTON could probably step in and be one of their best (if not their best) lineman.
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Carolina still might lose games but they went from a 1 win team to at least 6 with a couple of close losses in one year. That’s substantial improvement to build around.
Also we have a decent O Line which could really be a top tier Oline with a good RT and our Pro Bowl Guard back and we have a couple of promising WRs. You get a good QB in a passing offense and you can get all sorts of good FA WRs to want to come here.
thanks for your answers guys.
like i said i dont know your team very well but this definitely helped. well i hope your front office makes all the right moves to make this team into a playoff contender for next year.
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by NoSafetiesNeeded on Dec 29, 2011 12:50 AM EST up reply actions
well i hope your front office makes all the right moves to make this team into a playoff contender for next year.
Even if everything that could go right, did go right, we’d still be short of the playoffs in this division.
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Pittsburgh’s reign can’t last forever, and I don’t think Cincinnati and Baltimore can keep it us as consistently as the Steelers have been able to do.
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by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 29, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
It isn’t very often a talent at quarterback comes along in the likes of Luck. If we have the opportunity to get him, we should take it. No doubt. Bernie Kosar was the last franchise quarterback we had.
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Brady Quinn was picked in the bottom third of the first round, meaning a lot of teams passed on him, but even worse is that he held out of training camp and thenwascompletely suckedmismanaged.
Fixed that for you.
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by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 3:22 PM EST reply actions
If we get Luck, definitely will have to draft a tall WR. I like dude from UNC
And a RT.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 28, 2011 3:51 PM EST reply actions
Why would we need a “tall” WR? It seems like we need a fast WR more. Luck is 6’4" he won’t have trouble finding the receivers like a 6’0" QB does.
tlp believes that the only reason Luck appears accurate is that he gets to throw to 3 huge TEs.
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Which is funny because 5’10 Doug Baldwin did just fine with him.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 31, 2011 3:05 AM EST up reply actions
He’s not tall, but I think Wright from Baylor can stretch the field.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 29, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
We do not need to draft a RT or any Lineman in the first 3 rounds. The Browns line is not that bad. You want to see a bad line watch the Rams.
by Brownsfan4ever on Dec 29, 2011 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
Thomas, Steinbach, Mack are the only O-linemen I trust on our team.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 29, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
Nobody wants Bradford’s contract though.
I agree Indy will try to deal Manning, I could see him in Wash. which would be good for us if we stay at picks 3-6.
Indy will not try to deal Manning. They can’t — his contract is way, way too restrictive. If they want to get rid of him, they MUST cut him before the beginning of the new league year (before the draft). I think he is owed like 25 million dollars at that time. Go to the Colts SBN affiliate, which has several posts explaining the details and the conclusion by those guys, who obviously know a ton more about this than us, is that a trade is out of the question.
And no way Peyton Manning goes to the Redskins — that is not a place he would want to be.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
I’d give up a first round pick for Bradford. One first round pick. We could live with that contract and Bradford is a good — I dont’ care if he had a bad year this year; he is a franchise QB.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
I would give them our second first for Bradford.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 29, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think we’re getting Luck no matter how much we offered. If we were going to draft Luck with the #1 pick, I’d be livid if we gave it up.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
Would you be if we were drafting first because our franchise QB missed a year or because we haven’t put any pieces around our last #1 overall pick trying to learn that Josh guy’s crappy offense?
Manning can’t play forever, and I bet there are talks of St. Louis drafting Luck as well.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
So, yes probably. If Luck’s a can’t miss, once in a generation prospect, then yeah I’d be pretty mad if we gave that up.
And maybe Bradford isn’t good enough?
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
For 3 first round picks? If you are the Rams, you are suddenly armed and dangerous with a ton of draft picks. I’d be pretty stoked. And yes, Bradford is good enough.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
Bradford is probably worse than Sanchez, and that is saying something.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
Sanchez looks no better with elite WRs. Bradford has a supporting cast that rivals the ’99 Browns in ineptitude.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I think Sanchez is out of NY soon.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
Not as long as Rex is there.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
Cmon man, Colt is probably better than Sanchez.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I think rufio is trying to say that yes, it’s pretty obvious how much Sanchez sucks.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 29, 2011 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
iswydt
I take this optimism shit seriously.
"Who gives two shits about Matt Roth besides Matt Roth and Matt Roth’s mom?" - LocalMan
by The Licensed Optimist on Dec 29, 2011 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
They’d be a smart to pick Luck and cut their losses.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
I heard on STO (not really reliable, I know) that they are thinking of moving Bradford if they can get Luck.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
I really hope the Browns are not the team dumb enough to trade for that QB and worse yet that contract.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
Yup — with Holmgren and Shurmer here, it’s a definite possibility. I’d be stoked to get him if he agreed to rework his contract a little. He is no Sanchez.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
We mean different things by that statement.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, we do. Polar opposites on that.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
I don’t believe you. If someone said to you today: Browns either get Sanchez of Bradford — price is the same and you have to take one — you’d take Bradford.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
I really don’t want either of them. Hell, I’d keep McCoy for free and turn down all those deals. And I don’t even think McCoy is a good NFL QB, but he’d be a lot cheaper than trading for Sanchez or Bradford.
If I absolutely had to pick one of the three, in a “gun-to-head” type must choose one scenario, without any regard to cost whatsoever, I’d take Sanchez.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
So can I. I’d be devastated. A lot more so than if we drafted Richardson. I could never stop being a Browns fan, ever. But that… damn.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
Dude, you’re crazy. Bradford is a very good QB. He’d come here with a good O-line, better receivers (!) and hopefully another good receiver, and he could easily excel. Also, we know that Pat did a good job with him in StL.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
I think Bradford is going to be expensive, despite the contract, and I also think he is drastically overrated. I really don’t want the Shurmur-Bradford marriage we saw in StL, and I don’t expect big improvements just because it’s in Cleveland. Why pay (picks, players, or otherwise) for that?
I’d much rather have a QB that can win despite Shurmur.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
RG3 has better accuracy numbers behind a weaker line, solid arm strength, and is more mobile. More tools plus keep our HIGH draft picks? Yes please.
November 6, 1995 is unforgiveable.
I agree with the general sentiment here, and I know we’re not the only ones.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
I’d honestly rather have RG3 and keep our picks then have to deal everything for Luck.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
I’m not even sure if we’ll be able to do that. If we could I would go that way too. I like Griffin more than Luck anyway but I think in this system Griffin will either have a stiff learning curve or he’ll have to sit for a while. Luck apparently knows the WCO pretty well already. I would be happy either way.
My fear is that if we don’t make a move, one of the other teams will and we’ll be stuck drafting Coples or Richardson or someone else who is a reach at 4-6 and still not have a franchise QB.
For me, knowing we have a shit head coach that isn’t going anywhere for as long as Holmgren is here, regardless of his actual head coaching performance; I just want a player that will be good enough to turn this ship around despite Shurmur. I can only see that happening from the QB position.
My biggest fear is that this FO is stupid enough to invest heavily in Bradford and set back this franchise another generation.
Even if RG3 were to bust/we break him (knock on wood), at least we had a year or 2 of false hope.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
I’d rather have Griffin over luck PERIOD.
If He doesn’t declare this year Imma be a sad panda
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 28, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
I lived in San Diego in the spring of 1998, my senior year in college. A few weeks before the draft, San Diego traded its number 3 overall pick to Arizona for Arizona’s number 2 overall pick and gave a boatload of draft picks to Arizona for the right to move up one spot (and also gave Arizona Eric Metcalf). The intent was to draft Ryan Leaf, and people there were incredibly excited about it. Then rumors started that the Colts were going to draft Leaf (which would mean SD would get Manning). Almost everyone in SD was going ballistic — they wanted Leaf, he was definitely a more exciting player than Manning with a monster arm, and he came from Washington State which had just produced Drew Bledsoe, a perennial pro-bowler at the time. Of course, we all know how that worked out . . .
RG3 ain’t Ryan Leaf, but the lesson here is don’t fall in love for the sexier, higher-risk go over the sure thing. Luck is the sure thing. RG3 is the risk. Noone is taking RG3 over Luck. It’s just not happening (barring Luck breaking his leg or something).
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
Luck is a risk if you’re sacrificing as much as you’d have to, several years worth of first round draft picks, mortgaging your future.
If it’s Luck (-3 first round draft picks) or RG3 (-1 to pick him), I’ll take RG3.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
If it’s Luck (-3 first round draft picks) or RG3 (-1 to pick him), I’ll take RG3.
I agree.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
Especially when those other 2 draft picks could be weapons for RG3 to utilize, rather than Luck with no WRs for years to come.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
That’s probably not going to happen. They can pick up a receiver in free agency if they can’t find a good one to draft but there should be a couple of good ones at the top of the second.
The other thing you have to consider is that if you give McCoy another year and he flops, then what?
I hope we don’t have to give McCoy another year, but lets say we draft Blackmon. We draft a QB next year.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
What if there isn’t one? There will be Barkley but he’ll probably be a top pick and we might not have the ammo to get to him, plus that’s 1 more year that’s wasted developing a QB. Let’s get one now while we can, burn this year developing him and then shoot for the playoffs next year.
If we have another year of McCoy and Shurmur, I’d consider us the favorite for Barkley.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
If it’s Luck (-3 first round draft picks) or RG3 (-1 to pick him), I’ll take RG3.
I think we’ll have to trade for either. Whoever has the number 2 will auction it off to a team that wants RG3 or, if they want a QB themselves (unlikely as it is going to be either Minn, Ind or StL), they will take him.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 28, 2011 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
If we could avoid giving up next years first to move up 1 or 2 spots to get Griffin I would be fine with that. That second first from ATL would be nice but its just gravy really. It’s not like we’re compromising the future by losing it.
I don’t get the people who wouldn’t trade both firsts this year for Luck, that seems stupidly stubborn. Who exactly are you going to draft that would have a more drastically positive effect than Luck? Given that failure is always a chance for any player, I’m taking the most sure thing.
this is a scenario where it’s straight up though.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
If we were picking at 1 (we are not, it’s certain now), then I’d take luck.
If it’s Luck (-3 first round draft picks) or RG3 (-1 to pick him), I’ll take RG3.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
I agree
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
RG3 is not going to be there when we pick; we are going to have to trade for him too. Someone — probably Washington — will be more than willing to jump us to get him so we will need to jump them.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 29, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
what’s to say we won’t jump to that spot and winning a bidding war with Washington? We’ve got more ammo and its highly unlikely that Washington (or any team) will be able to execute a trade without other teams outside of the 2 parties knowing.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
what’s to say we won’t jump to that spot and winning a bidding war with Washington?
Nothing at all. It is just a response to the people who are saying why use 3 first round draft picks for Luck instead of just one on RG3. My point is that RG3 is not going to just cost us our own first round draft pick.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 29, 2011 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
4 1 rd picks
or 3 1 rd picks and T Joe Thomas to beat pitt and balt u need a better QB then they have and plus u would to get respect from ESPN national media CLE really needs a superstar QB badly no offence to McCoy right now u are a 7-9 win team at best with Luck by 2014 u could be the pats and that would be cool to see
okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24 real name jeremy woodard nettleton high class of 02 yes i am a raider Stay humble in victory respect all fear none and finish larry soprano
Um…If you’re suggesting we trade Thomas in a package to get Luck and expect us to be able to be at the top of the AFC by 2014 then you need to see a psychologist for a mental diagnosis of stupidity.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 29, 2011 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
i understand
brownsbacker 488 but Cleveland needs to do something huge to lift their city up are u winning with Joe Thomas what if i told u if u did this move u would win 2 S B its hard for Cleveland to attract big time free agents because they want to whine to south beach or a agailly a big ’ market u cant help where u city is any way i like the city of Cleveland its blue-collar tough smart hard-working men and women
okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24 real name jeremy woodard nettleton high class of 02 yes i am a raider Stay humble in victory respect all fear none and finish larry soprano
If you told me that you could guarantee us not only one, but two Super Bowls by trading our legend in the making along with 3 first round picks for a rookie QB I would suspect you of being the devil, and that’s coming from an atheist.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 30, 2011 1:15 AM EST up reply actions
b backer
although u can build a team around 53 good players look at HOU DEN SF i just am tired of Cleveland being picked on by the national media because its too cold to live in etc if A Luck fails i will go to every NFL blog and say i was wrong i do not like talking about religion but i will say this both sides have good points
okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24 real name jeremy woodard nettleton high class of 02 yes i am a raider Stay humble in victory respect all fear none and finish larry soprano
You admitting defeat by going to every NFL blog has no value to me. This whole topic is just way beyond wishful thinking and is stepping into insanity territory which is why you’re getting such sarcastic replies from me. It’s just not going to happen. I’m not convinced Andrea Luck alone will solve our problems. We need more help. Giving away 3 1st round picks as well as Joe Thomas would be a giant step backwards.
Also, making the argument that players won’t go to Cleveland because of the weather is pointless because just about every team that has won the Super Bowl recently plays in the north aside from New Orleans. This isn’t LeBron James we’re debating.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 31, 2011 2:04 AM EST up reply actions
ok
btw i thank u for the navy service we are going to have to agree to disagree on this issue CLE biggest problem is they do not take enough deep shots down the field too much dink and dunk
okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24 real name jeremy woodard nettleton high class of 02 yes i am a raider Stay humble in victory respect all fear none and finish larry soprano
Don’t trade up, trade down.
If we are RG3 falls to us, we could trade down, as long as we stay in the top 15 picks. Perhaps Washington would desperate to get their hands in him.
With our two first round picks, we could then take the best player available at either WR, RT or DE.
If we got their second round pick as part of the trade, we could take both a second round pass-rush specialist DT and use our other second round pick on either a WR, DE or RT (whichever of the three we didn’t sort in the first round).
I also think we need a decent safety to complement TJ and a hard-tackling LB.
We should look at a QB next year. Maybe someone like Tyler Bray.
by JohnW81 on Dec 29, 2011 9:38 AM EST via mobile reply actions
We are the only two in this camp here right now. Its a quiet place and I get to drink my whiskey in soiltude, while I watch the show of what ifs & trade this guy for that. It will all come down to what the teams in front of us do, and what our front office thinks will benefit the team. The rest is all of the fans going nuts until the first game starts for the season. Personally, I jumped off the train of arguing and will just sit back and sip the sour mash wiskey
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
It’s nice having 5 days off with nothing to do except drink….
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
by J. W. on Dec 29, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I agree with that… (Didn’t mean to flag. Stupid mouse jumped from “rec” to “flag”)
I very much like my 5 days off that i get every other week.
I would like to do the same but I can’t bring whiskey on my ship.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 29, 2011 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
It will all come down to what the teams in front of us do, and what our front office thinks will benefit the team.
Really?! I thought it all came down to what the people on this board recommend. I didn’t know our front office made the decision. Crazy.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 29, 2011 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t trade up, trade down.
I say we trade down every year until we own the entire 6th and 7th rounds.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 29, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
Belichick has started a popular and effective trend.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 29, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
IF RG3 is at the 4th slot we take him.If not and we have a team willing to pay good for that slot you trade down.
by Brownsfan4ever on Dec 29, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
Something to think about:
Remember how bad Carolina’s offense was last year? They went from 31st to 5th ranked offense this year by essentially adding RG3’s big brother. They have a good RB (so do we) and one speedy WR (so dont we) With a pocket passer like Luck would the results be similar for them in 2011? maybe 10 rushing TDs less. Would he have made Smith that deep threat again? probably not, he’s be the possession receiver and the offense wouldnt be nearly as potent.
My point is we have the chance to add a similar multi-tool big play QB PLUS have picks left over to add weapons. Hell, we can go after DeSean and not even waste a pick on the speedy WR. If we chase Luck, we have a great pocket passer thats all…he’ll be plugged into a boring WCO system that leads the league in drops.
November 6, 1995 is unforgiveable.
Again, the Newton/RG3 comparison makes very little sense.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Besides them both being black and both running frequently in college (like a lot of other college qb’s), there’s really nothing to the comparison. It’s just like the people who were comparing Cam to Jamarcus last year.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 29, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
But comparison of Luck/Manning does? You will always find someone with the similar skill set to compair and contrast with no matter what.
I do not think we can give up 2 first or even 3 first for Luck. That price tag is way to high with all the talent gaps in this team. If RG3 comes out and he is in the slot for the Browns on draft day you grab him. If not you go WR/CB/LB or BPA
by Brownsfan4ever on Dec 29, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
But comparison of Luck/Manning does?
+1
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 29, 2011 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
I was thinking the same.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 29, 2011 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
The Manning/Luck comparison makes a lot of sense. Luck goes to the line with several plays just like Manning and makes pre-snap changes as he sees fit. What other QB is known for doing that? I mean, if you are picking one guy who is known for making adjustments at the line, its definitely Manning. He also has good-to-great accuracy and a good but not Palmer/Favre/Vick arm strength (Manning’s arm was questioned coming out of school and he’s worked hard to improve his strength since). They are similar in size, as well; prototypical QB size.
The thing that separates those two is athleticism. Luck has underrated speed and can lower his shoulder when he needs to. Peyton barely has the speed to make it to the handoff point for the stretch play.
Newton and RG3 are both runners, but they run with entirely different styles. Newton is huge and can lower his shoulder, but doesn’t run sub 4.5. Coming out of college (and from what I’ve seen of Carolina this year) he has a bigtime arm but only pretty solid accuracy. In College, Newton’s team spread the field horizontally to run the ball, namely with him as a punishing, downhill runner. They went deep off of play action, utilizing Newton’s strengths as a passer and minimizing his deficiencies.
RG3 on the other hand, is lankier than Newton, probably not going to drag an NFL linebacker anywhere, and is a world-class track runner. He’s extremely accurate. And his college offense is built to suit his strengths—which are different than Newton’s. Baylor spreads the field to run a ball-controlled passing offense.
Even when Baylor runs that read-option, Griffin is going to be more of a “one cut” runner who can get to the perimeter of a defense and use his speed. Newton’s inverted veer option meant he was going right up the gut if he kept the ball. It’s LaMichael James vs. Peyton Hillis in terms of running style.
My point is the skill set is not at all similar between RG3 and Cam Newton.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
RG3 and Burflict, round one. Maybe Sanders in two, possibly a receiver. Burflict, and I will continue to say this, will get bigger and badder and be our Harrison.
DBN=Where we hate Chuck Noll for going 1-13 his first season, 5-9 his second and 6-8 his third. Oh yeah, he didn't get fired, that's why.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Dec 30, 2011 12:18 AM EST reply actions
I want a monster of a LB, but not a monster of a human being.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 30, 2011 1:17 AM EST up reply actions
“High character” guys were the previous regime.
DBN=Where we hate Chuck Noll for going 1-13 his first season, 5-9 his second and 6-8 his third. Oh yeah, he didn't get fired, that's why.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Dec 30, 2011 1:44 AM EST up reply actions
Not completely true, these guys value character too, they just don’t value underachievers as much (or is it overachievers?)
You missed my point entirely.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 30, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
Keep Burfict waaaaay away from my team. And I’m one of the guys who doesn’t mind having bad guys on my team.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 31, 2011 3:09 AM EST up reply actions
The world is full of people with no remorse, (like my ex-wife), we have to live with that. That said, I would take a few monsters on our team.
DBN=Where we hate Chuck Noll for going 1-13 his first season, 5-9 his second and 6-8 his third. Oh yeah, he didn't get fired, that's why.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Dec 30, 2011 1:41 AM EST reply actions
Ha!
DBN=Where we hate Chuck Noll for going 1-13 his first season, 5-9 his second and 6-8 his third. Oh yeah, he didn't get fired, that's why.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Dec 30, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t mind tough, nasty players. I do mind dirty players. Ray Lewis stabbed a guy, but on the field he isn’t dirty. James Harrison is a bad person and a dirty player. I don’t want that.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 30, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
This is the point I was making. I want defenders that opposing offenses fear. But there’s a difference from playing tough and from playing dirty. TNKK reference was about Burflict being a “Harrison-esque” kind of player, which if is true than he’s 100% off my radar. I’d take a Lewis-esque any day though.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 30, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve heard the speculations, but to my knowledge Lewis was never convicted of murder. Although the allegations aren’t as severe, Jamal Lewis sold a lot of cocaine and got in trouble. Although I hated him in Baltimore, I still loved him while he played for us. I wouldn’t have any problem if Michael Vick played for us. As long as these character issues don’t diminish the players ability to play the game and they pay their dues through the legal system it really doesn’t bother me.
But when you’ve got a player like Harrison who is intentionally hurting others on live TV in a respectable sport, that’s just not cool. Sure, question my morals, but I’m comfortable with who I am as I’ve never committed hardly any crimes.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 31, 2011 2:10 AM EST up reply actions
The problem is that Burfict can’t control himself on the field. You are never going to win when you give the other team 100 penalty yards per game based on personal fouls from one player alone.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
And because of this if we want him I think he’ll be there in the second round at least. Of course, we have to wait for the draft pre-season to see for sure.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I honestly believe he will eventually replace Harrison or Lewis in the late first round if we don’t take him, but you know what they say about opinions.
DBN=Where we hate Chuck Noll for going 1-13 his first season, 5-9 his second and 6-8 his third. Oh yeah, he didn't get fired, that's why.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Dec 31, 2011 8:43 AM EST up reply actions
Opinions are like butts. Everyone has one and they all stink.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Dec 31, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
and bowl movements
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
You mean changing stadiums?
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
by Dawg Nuts on Jan 2, 2012 7:32 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Just my opinion maybe, but I believe I have proof. I hear sometimes that all this team needs is “talent” around Colt McCoy. I have my doubts, even though I like Colt. I do believe with a great team around him he would be above average, but never great. I believe you need great. To me, getting a lot of “talent” around Colt would turn you into the Jets. Lots of talent, great Offensive line, good receivers and not in the playoffs.
The Colts without a good QB=they’re terrible. The panthers went from the worst ranked offense to 5th? (I believe, don’t quote me). They score a ton. The Patriots don’t have a lot of talent on offense either, but they constantly win because of their QB.
I’m not one to change QB’s all the time. I hate it. I want consistency. But I also want greatness for our team. Let’s get a QB that can take us to the Super Bowl. If you can get Luck, do it.
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