Instant Recap: Heart. Ripped. Out.
by Chris Pokorny on Dec 8, 2011 11:34 PM EST
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Hats off to the defense tonight. Sure, they didn't play a perfect football game. They did the following though:
- Stripped Hines Ward and Heath Miller on back-to-back drives.
- Took out Ben Roethlisberger, forcing him to leave the game and then be hobbled in the second half.
- Come up with an unbelievable goal line stand by Chris Gocong on four straight plays.
- Have Mike Adams intercept a pass to bring the ball near mid field.
While all of this was happening, the offense only managed to put three points on the board. The Steelers had seven. The final big defensive play by Adams came half-way through the fourth quarter. The Browns quickly drove down the field and had a 1st-and-goal from the four yard line. The end result was an interception on third-and-long, set up by a series of negative plays that have you scratching your head about out goal line offense again.
On the next series, the defense finally let up. Wide receiver Antonio Brown had about a 80-yard touchdown catch-and-run after a slip by Joe Haden and after Mike Adams got turned around. That was it. The Steelers won 14-3, but it everything was set up for it to be a stunning 10-7 victory for Cleveland. It wasn't meant to be.
I'm proud of the physical game a bunch of players on defense tried to play, but it's so frustrating to see the offense come up empty after that unit of players gave it their all.
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Anyone who thinks Seneca needs to start now is either extremely drunk or that much of an idiot.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
what the hell would be the point of seneca playing anyways.
by jonnyphoenix on Dec 8, 2011 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not that far fetched. Colt is awful.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
It doesn’t make an fucking sense. It solves nothing. Might as well just keep Colt in.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 8, 2011 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
This is the biggest lie in the history of everything.
I take this optimism shit seriously.
"Who gives two shits about Matt Roth besides Matt Roth and Matt Roth’s mom?" - LocalMan
by The Licensed Optimist on Dec 8, 2011 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
Then don’t watch.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 8, 2011 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
You’ve seen him throw two passes in a season.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 8, 2011 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
Actually a good argument to see what he might do at length, no?
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 8, 2011 11:42 PM EST up reply actions
No, it’s not. We saw him last year and he was awful.
We have information and film on him. We know he’s bad. We are not going to be calling for Holcomb.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 8, 2011 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
And Colt has been…?
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 8, 2011 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
you mean like the golden opportunity we got in 2010? Sorry, I’ll pass. I’d rather watch Thaddeus Lewis than Seneca at this point.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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I’m OK with that too.
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 9, 2011 12:45 AM EST up reply actions
It’s not just McCoy’s fault the Browns are so bad.
"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur
calling those picks “costly” rises to the level of fact, not just opinion. it also qualifies as severe understatement.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 9, 2011 1:14 AM EST up reply actions
Sheldon Brown, Haden, Pashos and everyone else did as well. Colt can’t move the ball, the receivers can’t catch, line can’t block, coach can’t coach.
D line can goal line LBs can goal line stand though.
Pashos made Colt move a lot.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 1:27 AM EST up reply actions
i don’t know man, the oline did pretty good this evening, but it’s the steelers, you gotta take advantage of the opportunities given to you. as far as the defense is concerned, they did their job. they held the steelers to 7 points for most of the game. we have to score td’s when we get into the redzone!
RE: Two dumb decisions by Shurmur cost the Browns
Dumb mistake #1: When you’re 4-8 and a double digit underdog on the road, you use all 4 downs on first and goal to get 7, not their usual measly 3.
Dumb mistake #2: You have a backup QB for a reason. When your starter takes a whack like McCoy did from Harrison, then when Wallace comes in and throws a bomb to Evan Moore giving the Browns a 1st and goal, you DON’T let the starter convince you to put him back in. McCoy was clearly not the same player the rest of the game.
These two “duhs” by Shurmur cost the Browns a shot at this game. He’s going to have to do better than this.
by Wyoming Chas on Dec 8, 2011 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t be. We’re 4-8.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 9, 2011 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
After Hillis lost yards on that play you kick the FG. If it was just inches you just sneak it, like they should have done on 3rd down
I think its easy to say that but what if McCoy fumbles? Everyone is pissed they didnt give it to hillis up the middle “because thats what hes good at.” Its a no win situation if you fail to get the ball in. Its easy to call the “right play” after the fact and from your couch.
what if Colt fumbles? What if Hillis fumbles. Hillis has fumbling problems before, so let’s not use hypotheticals that don’t work to defend the decision to hand it off to hillis. It has NOTHING to do with fumbling. If it did, they would send in Hardesty
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On point 1 – I disagree. your take is an emotional decision. You take the 3 points and let your defense do its job. Desperation is not the answer.
On point 2 – I have no issue with pulling him out if he can’t go. Colt said he could go so he went. The same thing happened on the other side other field. Ben could not even walk. He said he could go. So he played.
These aren’t “duhs”. These are a coach trying to win a football game.
Colt said he could go so he went….
These aren’t "duhs". These are a coach trying to win a football game.
Bull. Yes, they are big huge DUHs. You HAVE to perform the standard evaluations after a head blow like the one Colt took from Harrison. And if there is ANY doubt whatsoever you HAVE to keep him sidelined. This is the policy of the NFL now, for very good reason. If Shurmur doesn’t understand this concept he shouldn’t be a head coach, plain and simple.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 9, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
If the trainers said he could go, then Shurmur puts him in. I understand the protocols. Shumur is not the physician. Fire the trainers, fire the physician, but if your starting QB is cleared to go, he goes.
I get that people are upset, we lost, but saying there was a conspiracy to put Colt back in is ludicrous. And to suggest the outcome would have been different is conjecture.
by SBP on Dec 9, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
There was no conspiracy. Evidently there was negligence and very poor judgement. By the trainers, and by Shurmur.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 9, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe poor judgement.
Shumur is responsible for alot of things, but assessing whether his Qb has a concussion is not one of them. He can go back and question them after the fact, he can hold them responsible, but continually throwing him under the bus for things like this is counterproductive.
by SBP on Dec 9, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
No, it’s on him. He’s OC and HC. This team is his responsibility. EVERYTHING that happens on that field is his responsibility.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
I never said it wasn’t, but he has to rely on his staff to help make those decisions. As noted above, he can hold the trainers responsible, but it is not his job to perform the tests. This witch hunt is going nowhere.
by SBP on Dec 9, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
EVERYTHING that happens on that field is his responsibility.
My emphasis added. A Doctor’s examination is off the field.
A Head Coach has enough to be concerned with in a football game. It is up to the Doctor’s.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 10, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
Head coach is face and brains of team, one of the players he watches over gets concussed and is then out back in under his watch. Not his fault.
Can’t explain that!
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 12, 2011 9:11 AM EST up reply actions
it’s ultimately up to him as the final decision maker to give Colt the green light. He claims he didn’t know that Colt complained of concussion like symptoms. If this is true, his staff has huge communication issues. If its false, he is just screwing with use and doesn’t give a crap about Colt’s mental health.
Either way, it’s on him and a bad decision.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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it’s ultimately up to him as the final decision maker to give Colt the green light. He claims he didn’t know that Colt complained of concussion like symptoms. If this is true, his staff has huge communication issues. If its false, he is just screwing with use and doesn’t give a crap about Colt’s mental health.
Either way, it’s on him and a bad decision.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Shumur is not the physician. Fire the trainers, fire the physician, but if your starting QB is cleared to go, he goes.
Totally agree.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 10, 2011 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
i have to agree, but to me it’s just one more thing that shurmur has gotten wrong in a season filled with misses. now he can’t even communicate properly with his trainers/doctors? or he’s got such bad trainers/doctors that they can’t even administer a proper concussion test?
this is the type of decision that loses you a locker room.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 12, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
My understanding is that he was cleared by the doctors, there was no communications issue.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 12, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
sure there was. whatever was said to whomever, the starting quarterback went back in the game with a concussion. that is the very definition of a communications issue.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 12, 2011 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
that is the very definition of a communications issue.
This made me giggle because it was so blatantly obvious.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 13, 2011 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t mind the FG. We have struggled out of the gate every week.
We just got stuffed the previous play. It was the first drive of the game. We needed points there. And this is from a guy who usually likes to go four downs inside the five.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 10, 2011 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
Seneca shouldn’t play. But Colt is obviously not the answer.
by DisplacedBuckeye on Dec 8, 2011 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
Yep – already thing/looking into my draft plan, and as I said in the other thread RG3 is at the top of my list for the Browns to draft if he is there with there first 1st round pick. Not sure on what they should do at second just yet.
Take Care,
Bink
You have a draft plan? Are you the guy I Heckert spent all that time on the phone with last year? I was wondering who he was talking to.
"Tracers work both ways" ~US Army Ordnance
No I just tend to sit down and have fun analyzing team need, usually from the 1st pick up until the Browns pick. Fun reading mocks and such… But no way I could actually predict what happens, more just what I would like to see :)
Take Care,
Bink
I was kidding man. On the flip side, I’m the guy who has no time to sit and analyze such things (being in college and all). I enjoy reading your guys’ informed opinions and discussing the possibilities.
"Tracers work both ways" ~US Army Ordnance
TBH I only have limited time to do it as well. But I spend a lot of time keeping up on most of the NFL teams, so I know what is going on, on each team, and therefore have a feeling as to what they need. Then I spend time on some draft sites and get a good feel for the College players (plus I try to spend time watching some college football here and there). Between all that I get an idea of who I like and who I don’t
Take Care,
Bink
I agree. Seneca may have needed to play after that hit, but that is not an issue of him being good, but an issue of Colt possibly being too hurt to be effective in any capacity
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Agreed, in Seneca’s 6 years in the NFL in a WCO he’s only completed over 60% of his passes in 2 seasons with an amount of attempts that I believe would qualify (over 100 attempts) were 65 and 63.4% in two other seasons with over 100 attempts 58.3 and 58.2%. If Wallace was a good QB he would have shown it in his 6 years he hasnt so quit bitching for him to play, give colt a WR who can actually catch a ball (Browns lead NFL in drops 36 before last nights game) and a decent RT and see what he can do.
by BallStateBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
Colt has a decent line and bad receivers. But other QBs get more done with less.
A more important point though is that the two “bad” completion percentages you’ve posted are above McCoy’s percentage this year. I’m not saying Wallace is better than Colt (I think they both suck equally), but if you want to make the argument that Colt is better you should pick a different stat.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 10, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
I wish I could believe that the league will take it seriously. It’s the Steelers. He’ll just get another fine.
by woodsmeister on Dec 8, 2011 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
If Suh was, he should be.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
Suh made the mistake of stomping on a Packer. It doesn’t really matter how many Browns get head shots from the Steelers – it’s just the Browns.
by woodsmeister on Dec 8, 2011 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
Shuh
slammed a guys head into the ground twice, then stomped on him.
Harrison made a straightforward football hit, that would not have gotten a penalty let alone a fine for the vast majority of the history of this fine sport.
by SteelerBuddha on Dec 9, 2011 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
That was not even close to a straightforward football hit…even saying that makes it obvious you have very little understanding of the game of football.
Harrisons hit was textbook exactly the same as his hit on Massoquoi last year. He very clearly, undeniably lowers his head to use the crown of the helmet as a weapon. its not even debatable that it was intentional. He should be suspended for the remainder of the season due to the continued violations, not to mention a staggering fine assessed.
by jonnyphoenix on Dec 9, 2011 12:59 AM EST up reply actions
not only was it exactly the same, but it was on a QB who had clearly gotten rid of the ball. There is no question watching that play that Harrison had time to stop and avoid hitting Colt if he wanted to. He just wants to do things like that,
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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jonny, bross, your points are perfectly valid, but look who you’re trying to make them to. someone with a name like that won’t be convinced one of his guys did something wrong, no matter how egregious. I’ve dealt with his ilk for too long to think he’ll ever get it.
by Mr. Bad Example on Dec 9, 2011 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
As a Steeler fan, I hated that hit.
I will say that I think when you watch it at full speed, that McCoy was looking like a runner until the last moment. I don’t think Harrison could have let up, because by acting like a runner he was drawing him away from the outlet pass. I feel he did that intentionally trying to make a play. So Harrison had some momentum carrying there that if he let up because he thought he would dump it off, then Colt is off for 5-9 yards minimum. So he went for the tackle/hit..
BUT, he should have gone for the body-tackle. He could have. Hitting him face up was bad technique, bad sportsmanship and really unnecessary. I am not sure if Colt is your answer, but that first drive was spot on. Do that for several quarters and you got a win, well earned. I don’t wish that kind of hit on the kid.
But you keep pulling out your "refs-threw-the-game" card if that’s what you need for catharsis. You can use that card after every loss. It is a lifetime pass. Get it laminated. -Maryrose
by Twell on Dec 9, 2011 7:01 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I don’t think Harrison could have let up, because by acting like a runner he was drawing him away from the outlet pass.
I completely disagree and Colt acting like a runner has little effect on whether or not Harrison was far enough away to hold up. I was just looking at the video and he takes his first step to mccoy AS mccoy gets rid of it. He is about a yard and a half away from mccoy so thats a good 2-3 steps at least.
He doesn’t take those steps, he actually slows down as Colt’s momentum carries him to Harrison and at least 1/2 second after colt Clearly released the ball, Harrison hits him with no effort to avoid a helmet to helmet.
Even if he goes for a body tackle, that is a pretty clear roughing the passer anyways.
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Follow @BRoss2013
I went back and reviewed it
Even if he goes for a body tackle, that is a pretty clear roughing the passer anyways.
I agree with that, and my memory was a little different about the angles and when Harrison moved at him. The only caveat is that things happen fast, but there is a moment where it is clear that Colt will/has dumped it off and Harrison followed through anyways. SMH
But you keep pulling out your "refs-threw-the-game" card if that’s what you need for catharsis. You can use that card after every loss. It is a lifetime pass. Get it laminated. -Maryrose
I agree, things happen fast. There are times honestly when I can kinda see how a H2H hit may have been unavoidable because of how fast things move, but this isn’t one of those situations.
Things do happen fast, which is why its good to have guys with quick reactions. Harrison always has seemed to be a guy who, at least when it didn’t involve avoiding laying out a hit, reacted very quickly.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
The League disagrees with you.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
No, he shouldn't.
"I’ll consider myself a dirty player when my mom calls me a dirty player." - Ndamukong Suh
Says the guy who quotes Suh. Your comment has no merit.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:26 AM EST up reply actions
No, but Deion Sanders’ comment does, and he’s on Harrison’s side.
"I’ll consider myself a dirty player when my mom calls me a dirty player." - Ndamukong Suh
No, Sanders doesn’t either.
He was a great player who was a primadona asshole. Then they gave him a microphone because he gets results by siding on controversy.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
Did you play in the NFL? If you answer no to this question, then Prime Time’s comments mean more to, well, everyone.
"I’ll consider myself a dirty player when my mom calls me a dirty player." - Ndamukong Suh
But they don’t. He played as a head hunting CB, of course he’ll side with the ‘roider. He’s biased and he’s an asshole.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:34 AM EST up reply actions
Nah, you’re just mad.
Eat a dick, and sleep on that L.
"I’ll consider myself a dirty player when my mom calls me a dirty player." - Ndamukong Suh
At what point did I act mad or become malicious that you had to retort with that? You just ran out of an argument.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:35 AM EST up reply actions
Also,
once a runner leaves the pocket he’s a runner and can therefore take a H2H hit. So, yeah, you lose… again.
"I’ll consider myself a dirty player when my mom calls me a dirty player." - Ndamukong Suh
*once the QB leaves the pocket
"I’ll consider myself a dirty player when my mom calls me a dirty player." - Ndamukong Suh
and in 100% of situations, it is illegal to hit a QB significantly after he has gotten rid of it.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
He threw the ball, he was a quarterback, not a runningback. It’s still a malicious hit. Also, spearing is illegal on any part of the field.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
Seriously though, keep trying. Unsuccessful troll is unsuccessful.
20 years later, u still mad.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
gonna sleep on this. and maybe, in a few years, i’ll be able to look back at this game without being nauseous.
I wouldnt watch shurmurs presser then.
“progress”, “progression” “process”, “proud” “effort” “battled”
by jonnyphoenix on Dec 8, 2011 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
God, please eff that guy with a big sharp stick. At this point I long for Mangini’s post-game pressers.
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 8, 2011 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
I still feel he rushed back out before he was really ready after the hit, to prevent Seneca from getting the TD.
Take Care,
Bink
by BinkDeBook on Dec 8, 2011 11:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ditto.
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 8, 2011 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
It is ridiculously dumb to say he ran back out there to make sure Seneca didn’t get a TD. That is just so fucking stupid I can’t believe anyone would really think that.
Why is it stupid to say that. Colt was always a winner, and he felt that it was his job to get back out there as quick as possible so he could be the one to get the go ahead TD. Similar to Big Big out there limiting to keep his team in it. I just feel that Colt needed a bit more time on the side line.
Take Care,
Bink
He is a tough dude and wanted to get back on the field, no question about that. But you’re trying to say he wanted to prevent Seneca from scoring the TD. That is just ignorant.
No – what I said was he wanted to get the TD. He wanted to be the one who scored and therefore if they won, he was the one who beat the steelers, not Seneca. There’s nothing fundamentally wrong with him doing that, however it is up to the coaches to make sure they feel he is ready, and it sure seemed like he pushed his way back out there fast.
Take Care,
Bink
Nope what you said was “I still feel he rushed back out before he was really ready after the hit, to prevent Seneca from getting the TD.” You said it in the previous thread too. And its one of the dumber things I’ve ever read on a message board. And that is saying something.
Read it as you like… I added the clarification for you, for what I meant. If Seneca does get the team in for the TD, then Colt didn’t prove he could win the game, and Colt has a lot of heart and wanted to be the one to do it. And I feel the coaching staff let him rush back in for it.
Take Care,
Bink
What really sucks is that early in the game I was saying to myself, “Oh my God. Look. He’s throwing tight spirals instead of those wobblers that make the refs think every pass is tipped. We’re gonna win!” I forgot that DA also threw tight spirals (right into the back of Vickers’ head).
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
These guys need to be called the Cleveland Counselors for the way they play with our emotions
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 8, 2011 11:38 PM EST reply actions
That game was rough. I really thought they were going to pull it out at the end.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 9, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
CAN WE FINALLY CHANGE THE TAG TO FACTORY OF SADNESS?
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
by emily522 on Dec 8, 2011 11:38 PM EST reply actions 11 recs
My favorite part is the no ads.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
by Simmsinns on Dec 9, 2011 12:00 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/flashblock/
Try flash blocker.
by jonnyphoenix on Dec 9, 2011 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
He runs chrome.
Lolz.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
Im sick of the term “factory of sadness” already….it got old way too quick.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 9, 2011 7:37 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yea, it is out of date...
…the only thing being manufactured in Cleveland is futility
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
and pollution
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
right. It’s time to start going back to church
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 8, 2011 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
Church? Cleveland sports failure and repeat success of the Steelers and Ravens prove there is no god.
by kingcrimson2 on Dec 8, 2011 11:42 PM EST up reply actions
Savior my ass
"Tracers work both ways" ~US Army Ordnance
by roar888 on Dec 9, 2011 12:07 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Tough crappy loss, but I have to say I am not as depressed as I usually am. We played a great game, and if Haden doesn’t slip, who knows? I am not going to whine and complain or defend Colt or whoever. This was suppose to be a rebuilding year with a new offense, new defense, and a new coach and guess what? That is exactly what it turned out to be.
Whatever we draft next year, as long as we don’t give up any picks, I am fine with.
by BiggieBrown on Dec 8, 2011 11:39 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
You’re a better person than me.
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 8, 2011 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
I guess in a game where no one, including members of this blog, gave us any chance whatsoever, it was nice to see us play pretty well.
I respect that, and wish I felt the same. The this-close thing just pisses me off, alas.
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 8, 2011 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t say I wasn’t pissed off and depressed, its just not the soul crushing depression of a totally humiliating ass-pounding loss.
Yeah – the team played with good heart. But I didn’t expect them to win, and yet they were on the 5 yard line with a chance to take the lead.
Take Care,
Bink
All true, and good to recall.
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 9, 2011 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
I still feel we score there, and probably can hang on to win the game. Pass was a little late and behind, and MoMass didn’t try to go up and over the CB, but instead went right for the tackle.
Take Care,
Bink
Yep. We have to be one of the youngest teams in the NFL. Next year we’ll add a few quality pieces, and it will be closer to what Holm/Heck/Shurmer are trying to put on the field, and they’ll have a better grip on what they’re trying to do offensively. It’ll still probably be 6-10, maybe 8-8, in the AFC North.
Good game yall
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by seton hall and steelers on Dec 8, 2011 11:39 PM EST reply actions
still rather lose than live in in Pukesburgh.
by kingcrimson2 on Dec 8, 2011 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
Likewise.
I take this optimism shit seriously.
"Who gives two shits about Matt Roth besides Matt Roth and Matt Roth’s mom?" - LocalMan
by The Licensed Optimist on Dec 8, 2011 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
Ditto. Tough all the way, as it should be.
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 8, 2011 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
Good game gents.
Was impressed overall by your team, the future is brighter than you think.
Why is the "football" not round and thrown around?
Follow me on Twitter for updates on when I poop.
by Josh Roberts (ESGB) on Dec 8, 2011 11:40 PM EST reply actions
You guys do a lot of bitching over refing on your board
Which is ironic as fuck
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 8, 2011 11:41 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Glad to see that you are taking this so well.
Every single team has days where the calls go their way and have their days when the calls go against them.
Why is the "football" not round and thrown around?
Follow me on Twitter for updates on when I poop.
by Josh Roberts (ESGB) on Dec 8, 2011 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
Its one thing to complain about blatant call(which is usually in your favor)
But to see an entire board bitch about phantom holding calls whenever the other team does something good is pathetic
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 8, 2011 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
Refer back to the comment about every team having their day.
All I can see right now is you complaining about some calls.
The Steelers are better than the Browns, we beat you. End O’ story.
Why is the "football" not round and thrown around?
Follow me on Twitter for updates on when I poop.
by Josh Roberts (ESGB) on Dec 8, 2011 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
John Roberts is my father…
Hopefully the rivalry can become competitive, I’ve never seen it as a competitive game and want it to be like the old days.
Why is the "football" not round and thrown around?
Follow me on Twitter for updates on when I poop.
by Josh Roberts (ESGB) on Dec 8, 2011 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
You must not have watched it tonight. You missed a good one.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
You know what I meant.
Why is the "football" not round and thrown around?
Follow me on Twitter for updates on when I poop.
by Josh Roberts (ESGB) on Dec 8, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
The only reason it was competitive was because of Ben’s injury. You got lucky, basically.
"I’ll consider myself a dirty player when my mom calls me a dirty player." - Ndamukong Suh
Hm, nope. We were the direct reason he was injured if what you’re trying to say is true.
So not lucky. It came from playing good football.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
Were you blowing us out or something right before Ben got hurt?
by RyanBr on Dec 9, 2011 12:36 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No argument in that. Even though what you’re has nothing to do with what I said. But whatever.
good game
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 8, 2011 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for being a good winner.
I agree.
I take this optimism shit seriously.
"Who gives two shits about Matt Roth besides Matt Roth and Matt Roth’s mom?" - LocalMan
by The Licensed Optimist on Dec 8, 2011 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
McCoy didn’t look overwhelmed too badly against arguably the best defensive unit of the past 20 years.
Your defense held a great offense to 14 points.
That is promising for a team like the Browns.
Why is the "football" not round and thrown around?
Follow me on Twitter for updates on when I poop.
by Josh Roberts (ESGB) on Dec 8, 2011 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
Seneca throws one good pass all season and people are calling him better than Colt? Sad thing is, this is all drunkenness and frustration and we know it’s not true.
I take this optimism shit seriously.
"Who gives two shits about Matt Roth besides Matt Roth and Matt Roth’s mom?" - LocalMan
by The Licensed Optimist on Dec 8, 2011 11:42 PM EST reply actions
Maybe not, but it was a refreshingly sharp pass.
by kingcrimson2 on Dec 8, 2011 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
It has nothing to do with Seneca being any good, because we all know he’s not. But Colt is bad. Someone could make a case for trying out Seneca Wallace to see if he could do better, letting us see how much of Colt’s failures are due to his surroundings.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
No, there is no case. Absolutely none. We know Seneca and we know he’s bad. Putting him in solves nothing. We aren’t in a playoff race. We have 4 wins. Tha fuck does putting Seneca in do?
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 8, 2011 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
But if Seneca’s bad (read: Seneca is bad) it won’t prove anything.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
Yes, exactly.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 8, 2011 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
This. I’m not even ready to commit to it, I’m just saying the case can be made.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
It’s an awful case that would never still once all you sober up.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 8, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
I haven’t had anything to drink tonight. Steelers week, with another fucking loss, does things to me. Tomorrow, however, I’ll reiterate that I’m officially done believing in Colt McCoy.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
I’m done with Colt. This is the first time I really couldn’t think of anyone else to blame. He is not a starter. We must get RG3.
Dawgs By Nature: Holy Joe Thomas we suck
I don’t soly throw the blame on him. Haden fell.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 8, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
I think there was something we didn’t see. Crap went down hill after the injury. I think it was a bad personnel decision by Shurmur to let him back in DUE TO THE CIRCUMSTANCES. Not in general.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
It’s called momentum. he faced a lot more pressure after he blew that opportunity and the steelers started getting in his face.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 9, 2011 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
Steelers were in his face all night. They’re the damn Steelers. They didn’t play vanilla then all the sudden turn the switch. I think he was playing with a head injury.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
they really weren’t in his face that much. the o-line was good.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 9, 2011 1:42 AM EST up reply actions
Pashos blew it a lot and JT had fits.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 1:42 AM EST up reply actions
Because JT had fits, he had to start farther off the line with a quick hitch, which he was called for. Then he was called for holding. For JT, that’s a fit. Pashos had a few problems. Couldn’t run rushers far enough out of the pocket, rushers would get the inside step on him, etc. Wasn’t awful, but they were in his face.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 1:46 AM EST up reply actions
The O-Line did not have its best game at all. They were maybe a bit better than mediocre in Pass Pro
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Come on, even you, the greatest Haden homer in the world, clearly saw him fall trying to come back on a cut and gave the TD. Sure, we could’ve scored, but when that happened it was the dagger.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
Sure, we could’ve scored
No, we couldn’t have. Yeah, Haden fucked up. But the blame is on this offense.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
Defense was gashed repeatedly on the run with a limping QB and then Haden blew it.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
Our defense is bad, and continued that tonight. But I’m putting tonight’s loss on the O.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
McCoy wasn’t covering Brown. I’ll place it on the defense but understands the O didn’t do what it had to to succeed.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
not even close. the defense forced 4 turnovers and held the steelers to 14 points. the defense was nails tonight. the offense sucked ass, gave the game away.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 9, 2011 1:44 AM EST up reply actions
The D blew it. They knew they were going to run it and were gashed. Let them run all the way down to the 1 again and thank God for Gocong. Haden tripped and let them send the dagger into our heart. Usama Young blew at least 5 tackles.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 1:47 AM EST up reply actions
3 turnovers, 14 points. that’s one hell of a game against the steelers.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 9, 2011 1:48 AM EST up reply actions
We know Hines Ward isn’t anything and they played a half against Charlie Batch and a Ben who couldn’t run.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 1:49 AM EST up reply actions
they played like 10 snaps against charlie batch. you just can’t help making shit up, can you?
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 9, 2011 1:50 AM EST up reply actions
I think he was combining the Charlie Batch and Ben-who-couldn’t-run together.
[disclaimer: this poster has no idea what the hell he's talking about.]
*has had two anti-Ruud posts deleted from MCM in the past month; they must've been too Ruud.
by fanoftheunderdogs on Dec 9, 2011 1:52 AM EST up reply actions
Who’s making shit up? It’s all there. What, was Haden actually just abducted by aliens? He didn’t actually fall and blow his coverage? Mike Adams was supposed to have a poor deep angle on his coverage? DQ was the only bright spot on our D. Gocong in short yard to. Run D was awful and tackling stunk. No way I can make that up. I don’t see how you watch this game and think the D was amazing against a LIMPING BEN. THE FUCKER WAS LIMPING AND STILL GASHED US.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 1:52 AM EST up reply actions
LOUD NOISES
[disclaimer: this poster has no idea what the hell he's talking about.]
*has had two anti-Ruud posts deleted from MCM in the past month; they must've been too Ruud.
by fanoftheunderdogs on Dec 9, 2011 1:53 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
they forced 3 turnovers and held the other team to 14 points. what more would you like from the defense? they need to score all the points, too?
this ain’t the steel curtain, but they played a good game tonight.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 9, 2011 1:53 AM EST up reply actions
Honestly, if the defense hadn’t forced a few turnovers this game would’ve been much worse.
[disclaimer: this poster has no idea what the hell he's talking about.]
*has had two anti-Ruud posts deleted from MCM in the past month; they must've been too Ruud.
by fanoftheunderdogs on Dec 9, 2011 1:54 AM EST up reply actions
Would’ve been nice if they could’ve scored, honesty. Only team in the NFL without a defensive score. We held them to 14 points because Ben limped and Charlie Batch played.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 1:55 AM EST up reply actions
you from 20 minutes ago:
We were the direct reason he was injured …
So not lucky. It came from playing good football.
so, you just argue for the sake of being an asshole, huh?
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 9, 2011 2:00 AM EST up reply actions
Who argues to be nice?
[disclaimer: this poster has no idea what the hell he's talking about.]
*has had two anti-Ruud posts deleted from MCM in the past month; they must've been too Ruud.
by fanoftheunderdogs on Dec 9, 2011 2:02 AM EST up reply actions
When I said good football, it was in general context to the troll. In no way does a defense plan to injure a player in their defensive scheme regardless of how it works out for us. But guess wha? We played their second string and a limping Ben and still sucked.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 2:02 AM EST up reply actions
You win, Haden fell and gave up a TD.
McCoy was 18-35 with 2 ints.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
by Villeslgr on Dec 9, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
We can’t effectively use McCoy’s stats though. They’re contaminated.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
He was already very mediocre before the concussion
13-23 with 1 pick. We can effectively use that and considering the great field position the offense often had, he was certainly part of the problem before that.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
his help over the top from Adams, who also botched the play, certainly didn’t help.
The loss was a team effort all around. everyone pitched in.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I have completely given up on Colt too.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Seneca is bad though, we can’t evaluate talent with an equally bad QB.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 8, 2011 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
You don’t know that. If the receivers start suddenly catching balls and we are moving the ball and scoring TDs against the Ravens, Cards and Steelers again then you know where the problem is
Wallace has some great plays on his highlight film. As it turns out, though, that film omits all of the times he has had an open receiver down the sideline and threw high and outside, as well as all of the times he got outside the pocket and then instead of throwing the ball away when there was nothing there instead stepped out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage for a self-sack.
Wallace is not good.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
That’s the point though, we know Wallace is bad. We want to find out if Colt is bad, or if it’s his supporting cast. If we put Wallace in and he plays as well or better than Colt, we know definitively that Colt is the problem.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 10, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
This. Consider it a scientific experiment to see how much the current setting counts, versus the gem.
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 8, 2011 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
seneca definitely isn’t the guy. colt definitely isn’t the guy. it almost makes no difference who plays quarterback at this stage.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 9, 2011 1:46 AM EST up reply actions
Seneca should have stayed in to finish the drive. He should not be our QB. Wallace sucks, Colt probably sucks. There was no reason for Colt to come back in at that time.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
there was literally no reason to put colt back in the game at that stage, even if the trainers were telling you he didn’t have a concussion, or whatever. he had been helped off the field 80 seconds prior b/c of a massive hit to the face/head. plus, seneca had just completed a beebee down inside the 10. give colt 5 minutes to let his head clear, and let seneca finish the drive.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 12, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
Everyone here hates Seneca Wallace. Now we are willing to trust him with the game on the line?
Don’t you think this is a bit of 20/20 hindsight?
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 12, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
You’re not asking the right question. No one said they were willing to trust Seneca although he had just taken us close to the endzone. The point is that Colt just got rocked and we had put in a QB who at the moment wasn’t screwing up and was actually moving the offense. Just finish that drive with Wallace, run some more the damn test on Colt and then see if he’s ready for the next drive. Why the rush to throw Colt back in? It’s not like he’s done anything in the redzone anyway.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
Look at the record
Only in his rookie year did Seneca have a QB rating lower than McCoy. Last year, they had pretty much the same team on the field for Gelding’s eight starts and Wallace’s four, yet Seneca had a QB rating 14 points higher than gelding and that’s the difference between being in the top half and the bottom quarter. Gelding will have a fine career in arena football and the sooner he gets started on it, the better for all.
by 13FrankRyan on Dec 10, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
Who the hell is Gelding?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 10, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Well when a horse (usually a colt) gets neutered they’re called a gelding. I guess its supposed to be clever.
It’s not.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 11, 2011 8:13 AM EST up reply actions
Welcome. Please never use the subject line or “gelding” ever again. Thank you.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
by Dawg Nuts on Dec 10, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Yes. Greg Little and Massaquio are super-solid wide receivers that catch everything thrown his way, and he’s got a solid running game with Hardesty and Hillis.
McCoy is the only one at fault here.
/all of the above is sarcasm
[disclaimer: this poster has no idea what the hell he's talking about.]
*has had two anti-Ruud posts deleted from MCM in the past month; they must've been too Ruud.
by fanoftheunderdogs on Dec 9, 2011 1:58 AM EST up reply actions
Haha. No, how about the Steelers fumbling twice in our RZ? How about the 4th straight stops? Colt didn’t dominate but this game was far from on him. We got beat by a better team.
I wish he was the guy, because he’s got heart and guts. But even I’m starting to think he’s The Little Engine that Can’t.
The Little Engine that Can’t
Sadly perfect.
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 8, 2011 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed – Colt has a lot of toughness and heart, but the more I watch the season, the less I think he is the Starting QB for us long term.
Take Care,
Bink
colt is tough as nails. but he is a terrible quarterback.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 9, 2011 1:51 AM EST up reply actions
this is a joke, right? tell me you’re fucking kidding? after this debacle you’re saying that colt mccoy should continue to be the starting qb of the browns? are you out of your skull?
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 9, 2011 1:48 AM EST up reply actions
Really hope like hell Heckert has a short list of soon to be free agent WRs or RTs to call, because I think it’s pretty clear we’re drafting a QB in with our first choice..
They did good not signing any expensive FAs this year. Why even bother trying to do anything other than develop the young guys, get a high pick, and add FA next year. WR and RT would help this team immensely. They got owned at the line tonight and Sunday. Absolutely owned.
To me it seemed like the plan was to add to the Defense with the early picks, and see what we had on Offense… They now know exactly what they need on offense, so hopefully target those needs.
Take Care,
Bink
Yeah, I agree. You just weren’t going to fix that roster in 2 drafts. After this year, they’ll have a majority of “their” guys, and the excuses will diminish. They need 2012 and 2013, minimum, just to have a competent football team. At that point, they better look WAY better than this.
I agree… It would be wise of Heckert to sign a true #1 wr. If it’s not for McCoy’s sake, Shurmur’s sake.
Someone must be able to beat a #2 db once or twice a game.
"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur
Its gonna be tough to convince a #1 guy to come here and not drastically over pay the guy to get him in. Not only would that contract potentially hamper us when prepared to make a run, but it just doesnt fit in with Hecker MO.
prepared to make a run
When? Four years from now? How about the beginning of next year?
"A drug person can learn to cope with things like seeing their dead grandmother crawling up their leg with a knife in her teeth. But no one should be asked to handle this trip." Thompson
Ya lets go pay the top guys at their position in FA and get a “dream team.” Definitely the top way to get from first to last in the league, because thats how you build for the long term. I wonder if anyone has tried this ever????
The Eagles don’t prove that signing free agents doesn’t work. They’re just an example of how it didn’t.
It’s who you sign and how you sign them that determine whether or not it succeeds.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
Heckert is right though. Free agency is the winner’s curse. By definition, if you sign a free agent, you overpaid because there was no one willing to give more (this assumes that free agents go to top bidder of course.) The other point I agree with is that if these guys were so good, their original team would not have let them leave.
That’s not true at all. Teams let players walk for all kinds of reasons. You think Oakland wouldn’t have loved to have Nnamdi back?
There have been good FA pickups, and there has been reckless spending in every sport.
But when it boils down to it, there is absolutely nothing wrong with acquiring a good player. As long as he fits in.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 9, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
I think Oakland decided he wasn’t as good as the amount of money he commanded. I am sure they’d love to have him back at a reduced price. I am also sure that Philly probably now feels they have overpaid for him. It’s not about talent in a vacuum, it’s about how much you are paying for it, and how you can best allocate limited resources (since there is a salary cap in place.)
He’s the best CB in the game. Oakland overspent for every player they’ve ever acquired and his contract would have taken them over. And as a result of his leaving, they went from one of the best secondaries to one of the worst in the NFL.
And I doubt Philly feels they overpaid. It is an issue that we faced with Corey williams. Nnamdi is the best man to man player in the league, and now he’s playing in a Cover system. I’m willing to bet they’ll pull it together sooner or later, especially when they get better safeties.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 9, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
This year has been the worst I have seen him play and whether it’s scheme or aging, he just isn’t playing as well as in the past.
I’ve watched plenty of Philly games living on the East caost, and he has been beaten plenty in straight man coverage.
yes, it’s not all on the scheme, he has gotten beat on his own.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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I think Oakland decided he wasn’t as good as the amount of money he commanded. I am sure they’d love to have him back at a reduced price. I am also sure that Philly probably now feels they have overpaid for him.
exactly. This is why in this case, it’s definitely the winners curse.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
That’s not really the case at all. He had some clause in his contract that made him a free agent. It was something about a certain amount of interceptions, can’t remember for sure. Oakland thought they had him under contract for a few more years. They never wanted him to leave.
yes, that is true. But once they realized he would be a FA (and they did realize it rather quick), they weren’t going to pay as much as he ended up getting.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
The problem with high priced Free Agents other than the ones that have been discussed is that its also locker room poison. Do you think Deshaun Jackson liked seeing all these guys getting paid multi million dollar contracts while he’s still on his 400k rookie deal? Is that the proper way for him to behave, probably not but that’s life. People don’t like it when you bring in new guys for more money, let alone multiple times as much money as you’re making. I know a lot of you will scoff and say too bad but that’s the reality of the situation.
How many get to FA tho and dont resign or get franchised? Wayne possibly… Desean possibly. Then what makes them want to come to cleveland where the whole offense is a question mark?
It seems to me like Desean Jackson cares only about money, which would make him easy to control, but if he isn’t happy he sucks. Plus we are sucking enough to have a shot at Blackmon.
If DeSean Jackson cared about money, he wouldn’t be acting like such a dick in a contract year. At this rate he won’t have any money.
"Tracers work both ways" ~US Army Ordnance
lol right. he’s pretty much costed himself millions
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 9, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
Acting like a dick isn’t going to impress anyone else who might have been considering ponying up the cash for his talent.
"Tracers work both ways" ~US Army Ordnance
Wouldn’t that just make it easier for us to get him and less of a consequence for cutting him if he doesn’t work out?
It certainly makes it easier for us to pick him up. Not sure about cutting him. I don’t know what the rules are there. I assume you still have to pay them their guaranteed money (like signing bonuses, etc?). Plus I think you have to pay a cap penalty.
Anyone with a better idea of how this works?
"Tracers work both ways" ~US Army Ordnance
you’ve pretty much got it. the team that guarantees him the money has to pay it out and have it count against the cap. typically, a guarantee is pro rated over the life of a contract, but if a player is cut prior to the end of the contract, the remaining guarantee is accelerated to count in the current year.
no specific cap “penalty”, other than the acceleration.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 12, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
If you think/the FO thinks giving DJ some cash will shut him up and he will go back to playing at a pro bowl level and we draft a QB that would hit him in stride down field then yes, I would agree with this. A lot of ifs there.
I do think that, but I’m just an amateur fan trying to find anything to think we might be better in the future.
I am just skeptical. I can see us handing out a big contract and having him come in and not perform. The one big plus is the NFL does not guarantee contracts so we can cut him at any time if that happens. Still, I think itll be really tough to get someone to come here with such a bad offense (WRs want to produce and get to the pro bowl and all that… cant do that here…)
I love Stevie Johnson because I’ve had him the last 2 years in fantasy, but he is going to be overpaid and always seems to be nursing some sort of injury
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Rubin drew a couple of holds and made some pressure early. I like the way he played all game.
Gocong and Jackson showed up all game.
Haden would have as well if not for the big play
Too bad the line and the LBs can never put the same good performances together in one game.
"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur
Once again Taylor looked like complete shit.
Somehow he always ends up 2 yards behind the LoS behind another DLman.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 9, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
Fun game... in an excruciating sort of way
Too bad you couldn’t get Ben out of the game. Maybe you should try a tactical nuke next time.
Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever
-Napoleon Bonaparte
There’s a lot of stuff we wouldn’t have to clean up if the city provided basic human rights, like a Port-A-Potty.
-OWS Protester
Cornell University Class of 2014
by LV Steelers Fan on Dec 8, 2011 11:47 PM EST reply actions
rec for tactical nuke
I take this optimism shit seriously.
"Who gives two shits about Matt Roth besides Matt Roth and Matt Roth’s mom?" - LocalMan
by The Licensed Optimist on Dec 8, 2011 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
I’m going to buy him a really cool customized motorcycle. We’ll see where that gets us
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 8, 2011 11:50 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Unreal how we were getting absolutely torched in the run game and then stuff them four times in a row. Inexplicable
Gocong was a beast on that goal line stance...
…gotta give props for great play there.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
if Heckert says again this offseason that he’s happy with our receivers i will shove my head through a wall.
I’m sure we’re planning on a WR in the draft, Heckert was good at finding talent at WR for Phi.
Take Care,
Bink
Yep, a WR who was very raw, and has show flashes… Just needs to spend more time watching the ball into his hands to cut down on the drops. But we still need another WR.
Take Care,
Bink
Harvin and Jackson? Sounds great to me.
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 2:06 AM EST up reply actions
heckert drafted percy harvin for the vikings, huh?
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 9, 2011 2:10 AM EST up reply actions
Maclin. I get the two confused.
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
the knock throughout mcnabb’s entire career in philly was that the eagles were unable to get a good receiver to pair with him, until TO.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 9, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
There is the whole theory that Heckert was off limits from the Offense.
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Harvin and Jackson? Sounds great to me.
There is the whole theory that Heckert was off limits from the Offense.
What point are you arguing?
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
Apparently one into the ground.
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
You know who I wanna see? The TJ Ward haters.
Look what the fuck has happened.
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You’d be wrong then.
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 8, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
All the times he got planted on his ass by a RB, and got burned by a TE would prove him right
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 8, 2011 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
Oh great information and resources. I actually have literature. Something you can never seem to find. Shocking.
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 8, 2011 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
Ward sucked before his injury
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 8, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
Oh clearly. Because Usama Young is doing so much fucking better.
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 8, 2011 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
You’re seriously going to look at the product on the field and say there isn’t a HUGE talent gap between the two?
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 8, 2011 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
The defense couldn’t tackle with him, and they can’t tackle without him.
whoopy fucking doo
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 8, 2011 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
From PFF which you use a lot
The problem has not been Ward, who has only 1 missed tackle, but the improved Browns defense. The additions of DT Phil Taylor and DE Jabaal Sheard, as well the return to fitness of MLB D’Qwell Jackson has meant a big reduction in his number of playmaking opportunities, and it looks unlikely to change without injuries to the current front 7
Plus, he definitely has looked better in coverage this year. He just isn’t needed as much against the run
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Why do people keep saying he’s look better in coverage. How did he look in coverage against Cincy?
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 9, 2011 1:16 AM EST up reply actions
Ward? Well, I don’t think he played in the 2nd Cincy game where our Safeties got destroyed by Gresham. The first game? I don’t remember anything huge, but why are you picking one game anyways?
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I think the 1st game he gave up 41 yards and a TD to Gresham. But going back to game 1 of the season to say his whole season has been a bust is quite a stretch.
I definitely agree with that last part.
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Him and Fujita’s absence seem conspicuous.
by kingcrimson2 on Dec 8, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
Was you watching the correct channel?
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 8, 2011 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
RG3 doesn’t look like the answer to me. Too college. Show me somebody tall enough to stand in the pocket and launch the deep ball or just keep rolling Colt out there until that guy is available.
Show me somebody tall enough to stand in the pocket and launch the deep ball
This dude does that:
Dawgs By Nature: Holy Joe Thomas we suck
He’s 6’2" and sports a rifle arm, world class speed and is currently working on his masters degree in his 3rd year of eligibility.
Get that man on our team please.
Where’s champion64? Has he published the definitive height on RGIII yet?
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 10, 2011 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
He asked for someone who stands tall in the pocket (RG3 is a primarily pocket passer and he excels at it) and launch the deep ball. I suggest you look at some highlights on this guy, he can fling it down the field like it’s nothing.
Dawgs By Nature: Holy Joe Thomas we suck
All I’ve seen for highlights is him running. Though, the few throws were nice on the move. But it’s easy to make a highlight reel.
I think Barkley is the type of QB Holmgren would have a chubby for more than RG3
by jonnyphoenix on Dec 9, 2011 12:00 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He is taller than Colt.
The only 2 talls of the “big prospects” is Luck and Jones at 6-4.
by Johnnypronto on Dec 9, 2011 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
I think Luck is listed at 6-3
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 9, 2011 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
which has nothing to do with barkley’s ability to be good.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 9, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
Deion’s an ass?
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
Thank god I turned that shit off when the clock hit 00:00
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
Watching King of the Hill
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
Draft Question...
I’m figuring we’re going to be drafting in the early middle of the first round, basically somewhere between 8 -13. Most likely out of the top 10. Its not that we’re that good… but everyone seems to be forgetting that the rest of the NFL is either really good or just as bad.
Other 4-8 and worse teams (in no particular order): MIA, JAX, IND, PHI, WAS, MIN, CAR, TB, and STL
5-7 teams: ARI, SEA, KC, SD, BUF
So I figure that we’ll be muddled somewhere in the midst of that. We won’t lose out, I figure we’ll win 1 or 2 more (the second being PIT at home judging by how each team played tonight). Also you wonder why/how we’ll win… I figure it’ll be just enough to screw up getting a high draft choice or the guy everyone wants. Remember we’re Cleveland and just when you think we’re on the verge of something good… BAM. Not so much.
If the Browns lose out, they will be top 6. If they win one, THEN maybe 8-13.
by Johnnypronto on Dec 9, 2011 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
I’m thinking the only teams that will draft ahead of us are Jax, Ind, and STL
I predict the other teams winning more than us down the stretch
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 9, 2011 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
MIA has BUF, PHI, NYJ and NE to play yet… now the first two teams are give or take but NYJ and NE will own them. I figure they have 1 win left in them.
Miami is doing awesome right now. I think they can beat anyone in their division.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 9, 2011 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
i think it’ll be really hard for minny to catch and pass us
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 9, 2011 2:27 AM EST up reply actions
Jacksonville has 3 wins and plays the winless witless Colts down the stretch.
Even if you guys go winless, that still ties both of you at 4-12.
[disclaimer: this poster has no idea what the hell he's talking about.]
*has had two anti-Ruud posts deleted from MCM in the past month; they must've been too Ruud.
by fanoftheunderdogs on Dec 9, 2011 3:05 AM EST up reply actions
I missed both Community AND Parks and Recreation for this. I am saddened.
Dawgs By Nature: Holy Joe Thomas we suck
the shows or are you in a mah jong tournament
by jonnyphoenix on Dec 9, 2011 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
there is always Hulu
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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Or any number of sites that stream shows for free with no ads….
"Tracers work both ways" ~US Army Ordnance
…for now…
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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Yeah, fuck congress. They can suck a dick. Until that stupid law is passed, however, I will continue to enjoy my torrents and free streaming.
"Tracers work both ways" ~US Army Ordnance
That law restricting the internet? Pfft. Torrents will still find their way through.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 1:59 AM EST up reply actions
Congress really thinks they can control Pirate Bay? They are in for a treat, especially since this is setting up for an epic Google vs. Government battle (if they try to block searches, google is going to fight ’em).
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I’m out. Being shown a complete lack of respect from people you went out of your way to be courteous to, makes me tired. The life of a social worker….
I take this optimism shit seriously.
"Who gives two shits about Matt Roth besides Matt Roth and Matt Roth’s mom?" - LocalMan
by The Licensed Optimist on Dec 9, 2011 12:12 AM EST reply actions
My top QB prospects:
1.Luck
2.Jones
3.Griffin
4.Barkley
Jones still has to much upside to ignore. Good height and NFL arm. But does he make enough plays. Barkley’s strength is the mid-range stuff, though I am not sure he fits Shumur’s mindset much. Griffin is dead balls and mobility. Can he do the short WCO stuff that Shumur loves?
I figured this list was mostly based on height. Honestly, I’ll take any of them that are on the board.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
Yeah, tools based list, though I gave Luck the nod. Jones “tools” may be better than Lucks.
by Johnnypronto on Dec 9, 2011 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
If Luck, Barkely and Griffin is taken, then I’d rather wait till the second and grab Foles or dude from MSU
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 9, 2011 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
Kirk Cousins. What makes you think he’d be any good?
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
He’s Dilfer at most and we already tried him.
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
I disagree. He’s been consistent, ran a pro style offense, accurate and makes all of the throws.
I’d much rather have Foles but I don’t know how he’ll fit into the WCO
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 9, 2011 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
Dman I hate the people that keep this team from being anything
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
he has more upside than Dilfer ever had. He has a better arm than Dilfer did
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I don’t know if he lost it somewhere, but he never seemed to have a stellar arm when I watched him in Baltimore, in Cleveland, or in his other stops around that time.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Doesn’t sound bad. Don’t invest a 1st rounder on someone you’re not comfortable with, especially QB.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
I like both of those guys in the 2nd honestly.
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I’d love him in the 3rd. Cannon arm, Great height, but definitely a project QB.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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huge project. turns the ball over way too much.
but, super hot fiancee … so there’s that.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 12, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha you’re such a troll. Landry jones blows so bad. W draft him and we may as well take derek Anderson, tell him not to work out for 6 months and then cut off every other finger and let him be our qbotf. Landry jones can kiss my balls
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
I’m proud of my Browns. They fought hard and were in it to the very end. Not feeling like analyzing what went wrong right now. We fought and battled to the bitter end I’m satisfied.
Fuck the Steelers, their city and everything associated to that frachise.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Dec 9, 2011 12:14 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
The players cared more than Shumur, that is for sure.
by Johnnypronto on Dec 9, 2011 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t know what the hell went on Shurmur’s head after the first quarter, where we played what I believe was the best football this season. After that, well, we lost it.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Dec 9, 2011 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
good call BAD I think they played a great game but our offense is just too fucked up. Blame to go everywhere.
I enjoyed watching this game. We were at the 6 yd line with 4 minutes to go looking to score. We fought. I want that from my Browns.
There’s no talent on this team save a few players. We did better than I thought we would.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Dec 9, 2011 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
Well spoken.
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 9, 2011 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
Well some of you guys may get your wish. Maybe Colt has a concussion and Seneca has to start next week.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
Nodoby wants that. He’s no good, Seneca’s not better.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Dec 9, 2011 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
Hooray. Maybe Seneca will pull a decent game out of his arse, we’ll win and fall six spots in the draft for no reason!
Dawgs By Nature: Holy Joe Thomas we suck
I absolutely wish Colt no harm.
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 9, 2011 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
Well no, I meant maybe Seneca will start. Not “oh yay, Colt’s hurt!”
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
You doubt me?
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 9, 2011 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
I just want to see some baseline. I like Colt soooo much but he’s not an NFL QB right now. I would like to see what another average QB can do with our talent.
No matter what happens Colt McCoy is a class human being. I hope he stays with the team for a long time and maybe becomes a coach someday.
No matter what happens Colt McCoy is a class human being. I hope he stays with the team for a long time
I’d like to keep him as a backup if we don’t keep him as a starter.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
And this, if he wants it.
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 9, 2011 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
I really do have to wonder if someone wants to trade for him though. I mean, we got picks for Frye and BQ. I feel like there must be some GM out there who thinks he can be decent with some better guys around him.
As I’ve said before, I don’t think any rookie QB will look any better on this offense with these guys. So I really hope no one says that X QB draft pick sucks when he struggles with these current guys.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
This.
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 9, 2011 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
don’t we play Arizona…like the worst pass defense in the league next week? It isn’t all that much of a baseline. I am going to have to see a lot out of him to think that this is all Colt.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
This is the shit I’ve been saying.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
At least we have an equally awful Cavs team to look forward to! And they play in a league that’s almost as broken as baseball’s!
Dawgs By Nature: Holy Joe Thomas we suck
I’d ask you to explain how the league’s broken (I know it is but not why) , but I figure you’re not in the mood to go OT right now.
"Tracers work both ways" ~US Army Ordnance
It’s basketball.
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I guess I meant more baseball than basketball. Everyone knows the NBA is full of a bunch of repeat offenders, but what is so broken about baseball?
"Tracers work both ways" ~US Army Ordnance
Simple: No cap.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
I want to feel bad for Cards fans, but at the same time I don’t. At least their guy bolted after winning them 2 World Series.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
1? And he pulled the LeBron James of baseball.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:26 AM EST up reply actions
06 and 11
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
I don’t think Pujols had anything to do with the 06 win did he? Because I thought he was still chasing a ring
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
I honestly have no idea.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
I think he was in the farm system then. Didn’t really count.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
Pujols won the mvp in 2005. I am pretty sure he was in the majors in 2006.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
way off. pujols was already one of the best players in baseball in 2006. he only had a 1.102 OPS in 143 games that year.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 9, 2011 2:37 AM EST up reply actions
If it wasn’t for Barry Bonds, Pujols would have had like 4 MVPs in a row by then.
I don’t know how he’s Lebroning them though? He’s not from St. Louis and his leaving won’t affect their economy in the least.
I’m not specifically asking DCMJ, just asking in general
The only thing that pisses me off is that he’s in the AL West.
Now the A’s have to deal with him.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 9, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
That’s completely not true. Oakland is a fine place for the A’s. The A’s environment is A LOT different than the Raiders. We all show up in our 70s gear to represent the "Groovy A’s". It’s a party every night. I’ve bought beer several times for fans wearing opposing gear. It’s the thing to do. We’re so friendly it might freak you out. Don’t even get me started on the tailgates. Bong hits for every one who walks by.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 9, 2011 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
Haha, yeah I’ve been to A’s games, they are a party. I don’t know about the baseball though. I always preferred Giants games.
What? The Giants are pussies.
The A’s are one of the most successful franchises in the league!! 9 WS titles. We have tons of division titles. Three straight WS appearances in the 70s and 3 straight in the 80s. Lots of playoffs in the ‘90s and ‘00s. ALCS in ‘06. Been kind of slow lately, but we’re no joke.
The Giants can take a friggin hike.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 10, 2011 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
Hey don’t be jealous of our awesome pitching staff. You know if they saw you in the parking lot they’ld be having bong hits with you.
The Giants players are too clean. Bunch of douche bags.
The last game I saw in Oakland before I moved South was a Giants-A’s game. The A’s won 1-0. I stood there in the BART parking lot screaming my head off that the Giants couldn’t score.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 10, 2011 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
And he pulled the LeBron James of baseball.
I’m not saying it’s good, but at least he won 2 championships before he left. LeBron didn’t.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
I just can’t agree with this. I mean, you’re agreeing with LeBron
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:28 AM EST up reply actions
No. I’m saying what he did wasn’t cool by any means, but he at least won 2 (1?) rings before he left. LeBron promised to bring us a championship then bolted like an asshole. Not saying Pujols didn’t either, but at least Cardinals fans can look back and say, “At least he helped us win last season in a huge way.” We can’t even say that.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
Cards fans hate him now. He left with unfulfilled promises.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
And I don’t blame them for hating him. All I’m saying is at least he won them a ring.
To clarify, I don’t like either of them. And I have no respect for CP3 either. I like Durant and Derrick Rose. Maybe Rose will be what LeBron was supposed to be.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
CP3 is turning into an epic douche. Ala LeBron and Wade’s drastic douche swtich.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
how is 2 world series and 3 mvp awards unfulfilled promises? they may not be happy with him, but it’s way too strong to say cards fans hate him.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 9, 2011 2:40 AM EST up reply actions
outside of figuring out who will play 1B, that is a team that could easily contend for a WS again easily.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Headline from the LA Times:
View from St. Louis: Cardinals got Albert Pujols’ best years
Pujols at this points is definitely past his prime.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
you are out of your mind. pujols won 2 rings in that city, gave them 11 unbelievable seasons, and then went and took an offer that guarantees him (and his family) at least $30 million additional dollars than what the cardinals gave him. this is no #6 situation.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 9, 2011 2:38 AM EST up reply actions
That was my point. Pujols at least got the team some rings; LeBron didn’t.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
1? And he pulled the LeBron James of baseball.
What are you talking about? He’s not from St. Louis and he gave that city 2 championships. Pujols did nothing like LeBron.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
Look at what CP3 has already managed to do post-lockout. And what Dwight Howard is about to do. It’s basically perfect empirical evidence.
Dawgs By Nature: Holy Joe Thomas we suck
Only because if he didn’t it would ruin his credibility and break Basketball even worse than it already is. They need a buyer though and once they’re sold, he’s gone.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
Hooray, now the Hornets get to watch him walk at the end of the year and get nothing in return. Basketball is a joke. The owners did nothing to fix any of the issues, they just made sure they got a bigger piece of the bullshit pie.
Dawgs By Nature: Holy Joe Thomas we suck
Please don’t remind me of the Cavs.
"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur
by LocalMan on Dec 9, 2011 12:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Colt, you don’t have it. You just don’t. But thanks for playing hard. We need it as a franchise. You’ve got heart.
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Dec 9, 2011 12:25 AM EST reply actions
Stripped Hines Ward and Heath Miller on back-to-back drives.
Took out Ben Roethlisberger, forcing him to leave the game and then be hobbled in the second half.
Come up with an unbelievable goal line stand by Chris Gocong on four straight plays.
Have Mike Adams intercept a pass to bring the ball near mid field.
Can’t believe we still lost after all of that. Sigh.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
Well sprinkled in the middle of all that was a complete lack of tackling. Everyone went after the ball and let the ballcarrier drag them for another 3 – 5 yds.
Still held the Steelers to 7 points most of the game. Even in a game where we allow 14 like in this one, our offense should be able to more than make up for that.
"Tracers work both ways" ~US Army Ordnance
I agree with that wholeheartedly but still don’t want to let the D off the hook entirely because some of those set up first downs when they should’ve been punting.
True, but I would definitely put most of the blame squarely on the offense’s shoulders this time. The defense’s mistakes were more like the straw that broke the camel’s back.
"Tracers work both ways" ~US Army Ordnance
Good game.
"I’ll consider myself a dirty player when my mom calls me a dirty player." - Ndamukong Suh
At least I find a high quality stream of Rise of the Planet of the Apes.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
I watched the whole thing and enjoyed it. It wasn’t life changing for anything, but fun entertainment.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
I heard the monkeys looked fake as all hell. So I never bothered. If you think it was good I may give it a try.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 9, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
In the early part of the film, the CGI chimps look a bit too artificial (most specifically the baby). But I got used to it really quick, and had no qualms about it. The emotion conveyed through the main character (a chimp obviously), Caesar, is visually fantastic.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
Good, because this thread is kind of depressing.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
Deadly animals in baby form are too adorable.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 9, 2011 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
same actor who did the cgi acting for Gollum. Andy Serkis, he is awesome.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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Ah, that makes a lot of sense. It was really amazing job by him and the CGI crew.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
this is what he looks like normally
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I know who Andy Serkis is, I just hadn’t realized he played Caesar until you mentioned it.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
I know, I just wanted an excuse to use this shoop.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
So, if Colt actually has a concussion, wasn’t it a pretty damn big oopsie by Shurmur to put him back in?
Dawgs By Nature: Holy Joe Thomas we suck
Exactly. I said it above somewhere. Terrible personnel decision IN THE SITUATION. Not in general.
His play really went down after the hit. I think there are correlations.
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:35 AM EST up reply actions
Nice game Browns
It was competitive till the end, too damn close for my liking.
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play." ~Jack Lambert.
"Superman ain't got nothing on me, ... Kryptonite? C'mon now. It's just that you're never going to hear me say that somebody is tougher than me, ... Because I don't believe somebody else could be tougher than me." ~James Harrison
by H-burgSTEELfanatic on Dec 9, 2011 12:35 AM EST reply actions
Thanks. I appreciate the class in the response.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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Did Shurmur think the Steelers were the Seahawks and could beat them 6-3?
What is his fetish for field goals? When this team gets well inside the red zone, it needs to go for the end zone. It doesn’ t get that many chances.
It was 4th down on the first drive…
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:47 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, the look what happened later when they were at the 2.
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:48 AM EST up reply actions
Any QB in the league should be able to sneak in on the two yard line. Fucking field goal.
"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur
Oh sure. When Hillis couldn’t make it on third down AGAINST THE STEELERS DEFENSE.
It’s a horrible decision to go for it.
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 12:50 AM EST up reply actions
I would rather go for it on 4th down and get stuffed than settle for a cowards field goal at this point in the season.
But we’re 4-9? The hell does going for a TD against the league’s best D with the league’s worst O do? Get us stuffed. Get the damn points.
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 1:31 AM EST up reply actions
we were moving the ball until we got into 3rd and long, mostly from penalties and dropped passes and inaccurate throws.
show some nuts and some type of momentum going perhaps? Stop trying to send Phil Dawson to the fucking Pro Bowl every fucking game.
Except that he’s a Pro Bowl caliber kicker and that’s the reason we pay him?
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 1:35 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, don’t waste points. If we went for it, it would’ve been a shutout.
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 1:38 AM EST up reply actions
If you dont get it, you pin them back on the goalline thus changing what they are going to attempt to do offensively (for a series, at least). They either burn a down or two just running up inside to get some more room, and you get them in a 3rd and /medium/long backed up against the goalline.
If they get the 1st, well, sh*t happens but you at least either scored and/or set a tone for your own team that field goals arent going to win this game, and you are playing aggressively to win…not just to play the ‘percentages.’
If they get the 1st, well, sh*t happens
Shit happened like 5 times tonight. We did that on everyone of their drives and “shit” happened. No way we were going to score against their D on 4th down. Hillis couldn’t do it on 3rd and 2, no way we were going to get it anyway else. Give me the dam assured points.
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 1:39 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah but they wouldnt have run the same type of plays from the 2 yard line that they did when they got the ball after the kickoff. it would have taken them off their script immediately.
Simply wouldn’t have happened. We never had that presence nor would we have had the ability to push them off their script.
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 1:43 AM EST up reply actions
Not to start a comment war, but I distinctly remember Mangini going for a FG last season when it was 4th down and we were on like the 3 yard line.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
Which is to say, Shurmur’s not the only Browns coach that has made that decision.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
I’m amazed at how much Mangini is brought up. I don’t get it.
"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur
He also took many more chances on 4th down (both successful and unsuccessful) than Shurmur has (zero).
"Tracers work both ways" ~US Army Ordnance
He also works for ESPN and doesn’t coach anywhere. who cares
"That’s the reality of it and I live in that reality." Shurmur
Apparently you.
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 1:05 AM EST up reply actions
Alright, here’s the deal. All these accusations about McCoy are ridiculous. I love the Browns just as much as the next guy, but god dammit, we played one hell of a game against the STEELERS. it’s not like we lost to the colts. Be honest, did any of ou think we weould have been as close as we actually were? Do you think we would have created such an intense game that was well worth watching? McCoy showed one thing that i havn’t seen any Browns QB have in a long time. And that was heart. Mccoy is trying his best out there, did he make some bad throws and some mental mistakes? Yes. But to put the entire blame on Colt and to automatically avert to he sti ks, put in wallace, is completley absurd. It doesnt help when his WR’s don’t catch the ball (little) or get seperation ( all of them) or when he is continuesly flushed out of the pocket and has 2 seconds to throw. Manning, brady, rogers. None of them would be able to do that. So
Put your head on right and look at the real facts. McCoy can be the QB of the future. I’m tired of wasting draft picks because we need a QB every few years. H&H know what they are doing. We have the youngest team in the NFL and they are all growing together. Get a solid RT, and a big play WR and we are taking steps in right direction. But in the mean time. Shut your mouth and stop complaining unless it is intelligent.
by lightninmcqueen on Dec 9, 2011 12:50 AM EST via mobile reply actions
McCoy can be the QB of the future.
I simply don’t believe this to be within the realm of the likely any more.
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 9, 2011 12:57 AM EST up reply actions
Your statement here will end up contradicting itself. You said McCoy can be the QBOTF. Then said HandH know what they’re doing. And they’re gonna draft a QB.
No i said i’m tired of drafting a QB, i never said any where that we will draft a QB. And it is very likley McCoy could be QBOTF but the FO needs to build around him instead of just throwing in someone else.
by lightninmcqueen on Dec 9, 2011 1:03 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Oh i thought you ment i stated that haha, noi think holmgrenn will continue to build, and this team will grow together, people have got to understand that it all isn’t going to happen right now.
by lightninmcqueen on Dec 9, 2011 1:09 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Its a QB league. If you dont have the guy you have to get the guy. Since there are so few “the guys” in the world, you have to keep moving until you find it. You cannot settle for what we have and think if we get 52 better players then we will be better. Why not upgrade the 1 singular most important postion in the game?
Since there are so few of “the guys” how do we know we will get one ? If we keep moving (draft a QB every first round use him for a year than throw him out and start over) where do you think this team will be in another 10 years ? I say let the people (football minds H&H) make those decisions .. sit back and enjoy the ride. Well maybe you and others here won’t but for the rest of us its gonna be SWEET !!
"There's a gleem"
by ol skol dawg on Dec 10, 2011 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
i don’t think the plan is to draft a qb every first round and throw him out. if so, that’s a bad plan.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 12, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
H&H know what they are doing.
So if they draft a QB in the first round, you’ll issue a statement saying you were wrong? I’ll gladly issue one if I turn out to be wrong in thinking Colt can’t get it done.
Manning, brady, rogers. None of them would be able to do that.
False, all of them would be able to do it.
Shut your mouth and stop complaining unless it is intelligent.
I agree that calling for Wallace isn’t the answer, but as far as what is intelligent and what isn’t, I won’t defer to your judgment on that, I’ll make my own.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
again, in defense of those “calling for wallace”, it’s not borne out of some belief that seneca is the future at qb, or that he’s even better than colt. it’s not even really a call … i don’t particularly care if he plays, but i don’t think it would hurt in the least and see how if could be helpful.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 9, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
It did make me curious to see Seneca get in there and throw a rope on a crucial play. Maybe the weapons aren’t quite so terrible, playing Wallace would give us a basis for comparison.
Precisely my argument. Get some data in a live fire scenario. The season is lost.
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 9, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
There are two legitimate reasons to stick Wallace in there to replace Colt the rest of the season: 1. Colt is injured, or 2. The coaching staff and front office have decided definitively that Colt will not have an opportunity to be the starter next year. Placing Wallace in there, a guy with his own set of strengths and weaknesses, does not amount to a control group for the rest of the offense.
Wallace doesn’t make the blocking on the goal line or for the run game in general any better, for example. Wallace did throw a nice ball. It made all of us happy for a moment. But, let’s be honest: he’s not the answer and has no shot at being the answer. I guess the one positive that would come from benching Colt for Wallace would be that we’d know we were drafting a QB next year.
by chitown browns fan on Dec 9, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
Placing Wallace in there, a guy with his own set of strengths and weaknesses, does not amount to a control group for the rest of the offense.
Well no, not exactly. It’s not a perfect experiment, but Wallace is probably the best we’ve got to build it with in the rusty storage shed out behind the lab. Thaddeus Lewis anyone?
….the one positive that would come from benching Colt for Wallace would be that we’d know we were drafting a QB next year.Serious question: How many people think we WON’T draft a QB somewhere in the draft next year, unless we just can’t reach the people we really like at a reasonable cost?
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 9, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Let me rephrase: benching Colt for the remainder of the season in favor of Wallace would be a serious indication that we were drafting a QB in the first or second round next year. Whether they have their eyes on a guy in the later rounds is beyond me.
by chitown browns fan on Dec 9, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
Got you. I’m still curious though under the clarified parameters: Best guess, how many people think we WON’T draft a QB somewhere in the first or second round of next year’s draft, the acquisition costs of some specific draft slot notwithstanding?
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 9, 2011 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
I genuinely think that for the front office, the jury’s still out. Judging from this board, I’d say many people probably disagree with me. I will say that I would love to be a fly in the room when they discuss Colt’s arm, his decision making ability, the weapons around him, the line, etc. I’d literally pay money.
by chitown browns fan on Dec 10, 2011 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
I will say that I would love to be a fly in the room when they discuss Colt’s arm, his decision making ability, the weapons around him, the line, etc. I’d literally pay money.
Oh, I’d second that. Sign me up!
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 10, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
i don’t think they’re going to take a qb in rounds 1 or 2. i wish they would, but i have a feeling they won’t.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 12, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
If we don’t draft a first rounder, I hope we don’t draft a QB at all. I’m tired of taking fliers on projects.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
As for drafting a QB, it is a loaded question. Holmgren loves drafting QB’s and just becuase we draft one doesn;t mean a whole lot. The only question is do wee draft a QB in the first round.
by SBP on Dec 9, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
I had this secret hope that Thaddeus Lewis was going to become Hasselbeck (like how Holmgren brought him to Seattle after being on GB PS)…. I have a strong suspision that is not the case.
I think I had the same thought. I agree with your final assessment.
by SBP on Dec 9, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting point.
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 9, 2011 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t want to see Seneca, but I understand where people wanting him are coming from. At least, I wouldn’t mind seeing Seneca if Colt is still feeling these concussion symptoms.
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I feel that if Colt is feeling any significant aftereffects from the concussion at all, then starting Wallace should be mandatory. We’ve done more than enough already to risk that man’s life.
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 9, 2011 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
I totally agree if Colt is still feeling the after effects. This is more addressing the idea of starting Seneca to see what we’ve got in him. If this is a legit concussion and he feels any symptoms next friday, I don’t play him if I’m shurmur.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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Early on in the season I was on the bus with the folks who said let Colt play out the season for better or worse and then figure out what we need to do. I’m still on that bus because I don’t see any decent stops between here and the end of the season. We’re not going to the playoffs and putting Wallace in there accomplishes nothing. The coaches shouldn’t need to see how the offense plays with Wallace to decide whether to keep Colt. They can look at game tape and figure out if it was a bad throw by Colt or a bad route by the WR or whatever other mitigating factor (if any) would weigh for or against keeping McCoy. And the more he plays, the more they have to build their decision on.
Now let’s put the Wallace talk to bed.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
The coaches shouldn’t need to see how the offense plays with Wallace to decide whether to keep Colt.
Well, there is evaluating the rest of the offensive personnel to consider as well.
Now let’s put the Wallace talk to bed.I can see that. I think a case has been made for the change at least as a thought experiment, but there’s no point running it into the ground.
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 10, 2011 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
Good game by the Browns
You have to respect what your team did out there tonight. They came in to Pittsburgh and took it down to the wire. Yes they shot themselves in the foot (so did the Steelers), but they also made a bunch of plays, against a strong team playing it home. Credit to your D, which really kept things close right down to the bitter end.
Good game Browns fans
I said before the game, I respect the Browns because even though they are down right now, they always give everything they have against the Steelers, and they did it again tonight. Gave me a hell of a heart attack for much of the game.
Be proud, see you in the Dawg Pound in a few weeks. Good luck until then
Formerly known as Steeler_
BTSC's token Kiwi fan. That means I'm a New Zealander. Yes, that small country next to Australia....no we are not part of Australia
Thanks for not being a tool.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
Pfft. Not like the other one is any harder to deal with. I’m too much of a /b/tard for him.
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 1:04 AM EST up reply actions
I just do.
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 1:32 AM EST up reply actions
I am really starting to become a Landry Jones fans looking at over some of his games the last 90 minutes. Really has the height,arm and solid mobility you want out of a pocket passer. Not quite as a sure thing as Luck, but closer than we may think.
Jones and Criner are really impressing me as well at WR. Amazing how this draft matches up with the Browns needs.
No, our thoughts on him being pretty far off are accurate. Don’t need Jimmy Clausen.
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by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 1:33 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah other than the whole passing the football thing he’s great
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
We will see. I love the physical skills and his accuracy doesn’t look that bad, definitely no worse than Gabberts.
Give him Jones or Criner, big targets that can leap and you may have a winning formula.
Sorta reminds me of Hasselbeck from Seattle.
well, gabbert sucks ass, so “no worse than gabbert” ain’t exactly a positive.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 9, 2011 2:49 AM EST up reply actions
Hmmmm, we will see again. Gabbert is young but has a rocket arm. He made some throws against the Browns that I have not seen since DA’s prime by ourselves. Again, I am not saying he is good or that Jones is better, but until Holmgren can give him a lookdown, I just can’t write him off for undersized Barkley or all athlete RG3.
I pray to God almighty the Browns don’t draft Landry Jones. I am not the resident expert on QB play, however I watched him play about 14 games in the last two years. He has to be in the perfect spot to perform: ie, Oklahoma. He has draft picks all over the place on offense. Broyles, Stills, and Jaz Reynolds has a shot to be better than both of them. DeMarco Murray was a stud for him last year. No Thanks.
Now if you said Barkley or RG3, I would be ok with that.
My heart doesn’t feel ripped out.
"A drug person can learn to cope with things like seeing their dead grandmother crawling up their leg with a knife in her teeth. But no one should be asked to handle this trip." Thompson
That means you’re numb.
[disclaimer: this poster has no idea what the hell he's talking about.]
*has had two anti-Ruud posts deleted from MCM in the past month; they must've been too Ruud.
by fanoftheunderdogs on Dec 9, 2011 3:15 AM EST up reply actions
I guess… Looking back at this thread, I was pretty loaded while posting. But I think my feelings about the game are the same this morning.
"A drug person can learn to cope with things like seeing their dead grandmother crawling up their leg with a knife in her teeth. But no one should be asked to handle this trip." Thompson
hey guys, hopefully i can bring a bit of happiness :)
just made a post about the game…
better get 'em now!
In other (OT) news: The NBA is a complete and total train wreck right now.
If you hadn’t heard, the Lakers were in line to land Chris Paul in a trade, and still had room for another potential deal for Dwight Howard. David Stern blocked the trade, apparently after outcry from the majority of owners. Now there’s a really wacky discourse among everyone involved directly with the league regarding competitive balance and power, coming from all sides. Meanwhile, reports are, that on the cusp of a handful of deals and signings trying to pushed through before training camp opens tomorrow, the league is in limbo, at least as far as trades are concerned.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
Paul tried to force it through. That was the problem. Players need to stay out of the business side of it.
I understand that. The convergence in Miami set off a chain reaction, that resulted in the Mello-out of Denver situation. After Mello forced his way out with his FA year looming, the precedent was set. David Stern is now abruptly blocking the most recent case of it. However, he opens up a whole new can of worms:
"To me, this makes the league feel like it’s rigged, that Stern just does whatever Stern wants to do. He’s messed up the competitive balance of this league a lot worse by killing the deal, because you’ve completely destroyed the planning that New Orleans, Houston did and left them in shambles over this. I’ve never been so discouraged about this league, never so down.
"I mean, come on: Chris Paul is leaving New Orleans in 66 games. He’s gone. And what’s Dell Demps, and that franchise, going to have to show for it?"
-Unnamed NBA executive, via Woj
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
You guys want to talk about rigged, that trade all but gift wrapped Dwight Howard to the Lakers considering the TPE would be used on Hedo, and Bynum + scraps for Dwight. Oh noes the Lakers don’t have a PF, oh fucking well they would have three of the top 5 players in the entire league on their team. You want to talk about the Heat’s super team, it would look like a joke compared to LA’s. Dwight Howard as your third option makes Bosh look like Andy as your third option.
It was already rigged, by Paul and his cohorts(Lebron). The Hornets would have been screwed.
Also, come on over to Fear The Sword and discuss this. No one comes over there and I get frightened and lonely.
Dawgs By Nature: Holy Joe Thomas we suck
And the lakers weren’t giving up draft picks for this deal for CP3.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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Paul tried to force it through. That was the problem. Players need to stay out of the business side of it.
Paul isn’t the problem. Him letting the team know he has no plans to resign with them is doing the team a favor. He’s allowing the team to attempt to get something in return. He could have just left in the offseason, when the business side is completely under his control.
Mangini apologist by default.
I’m speaking about his innate accuracy, not how well that innate accuracy is translating on the field.
while people complained about the Pau Gasol deal, this one is maybe even more lopsided. The Lakers wouldn’t give up any upside guys like marc Gasol and don’t give up draft picks AND lose a ton of cap hits.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
What might be a more lopsided is forcing the Hornets to lose him for nothing.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
If this was a two team trade between Houston and New Orleans, CP3 for what Houston gave up, that trade is still lopsided against NO.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
good morning dbn. i am still drunk.
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
Congrats. Unfortunately, I had to work today and can’t be drunk here. It sucks.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
i am currently at work.
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
not drunk, that wore off well before getting into the office.
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
Same. I used to be invincible. Not so much any more.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 9, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
Oh stop. You’re not much older than me. haha
by Brownie's Year on Dec 9, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
I hurt so bad today. also I apologize if I was an a-hole last night. I was way to blitzed and I am not always the best drunk especially when the Browns lose.
HAHA! I skimmed through and all you were asking for was a banning. it’s all good. I’ve done that a couple times my self.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 9, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
You kind of went off the deep end, there were long strings of profanity. I figured it was just alcohol fueled frustration, so it’s no big deal.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 10, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Could someone tell Shurmer that Peyton Hillis is our Steven Jackson?! And that he is our 2nd best receiver? How many Screen passes did we use? Isnt that the best way to stop an onslaught of blitzes?
We have 2 Q’s that i think were both answered last nite:
Is colt our QB of the future? No
Is Shurmer our Coach of the future? No
ugh
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
I have been in McCoy’s camp. But last night he cannot throw the pick in the endzone. The sack he took previous was not acceptable either. Playing a big time D, those mistakes you can not make.
Schumur blew the call on 3rd and inches. Why not QB sneak?, Just dumb.
I am tired of Little dropping balls.
Cribbs needs to shut it and play ball, hell Norward looked good on returns.
Harrison is an idiot, and should be fined and suspended.
Proud of the D, they busted there ass. Only a couple of big plays.
Like I said I still like Colt, however if Holmgren and Heckart draft a QB, I would not disagree. Just please no Landry Jones.
Need a wideout, ( Bowe is a FA ), need a RT, need a LB, another CB, DT, and another WR.
List the things that make you still like Colt other than the fact he is a tough kid.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
Considering he got a raw deal this year with the lockout and a completely new system to learn, I’d say he’s doing fairly well… Add in the fact that the OL and RBs were full of injuries, I’d say he’s doing a pretty bang up job. Toss in a WR corps that can’t catch and he’s the equivilant of Tom Brady.
Granted he’s thrown a few garbage picks, but QBs do that on occassion. He’s a second year QB in a first year system.
The one BIG thing that I’ll give him props for is during the lockout taking it upon himself to organize team practice and trying to learn the new system. I mean if Brett Favre thinks enough of him to give him some private tutoring then there has to be something there right?
Stick Colt on a team with WRs that can catch and I’m pretty sure he’d be a throwing up stellar numbers… maybe not Manning, Rodgers or Brady good numbers but possibly a few years down the line.
I was trying to think of a diplomatic way to disagree with 3PON’s post, but pretty much.
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 9, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
Won’t disagree that it isn’t crazy… But I am a Cleveland sports fan so being crazy is nothing new to me.
Put any other QB in this system and I almost guarantee the same numbers. I’m not saying we’ve ever had good QBs as of late but I’d bet most any of them would’ve done better without getting their trial by fire on this team.
Wow, went to bed with about 30 seconds left in the game. Thought we were going to win that one. What a complete bummer.
Its pretty obvious they should have left Wallace in after Colt got nailed. Colt clearly wasn’t the same after getting planted with the helmet crash from Harrison.
That said, I thought McCoy played a very good game for about 54 minutes leading up to that (aside from the interception of course). Was extremely encouraged.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 9, 2011 8:02 AM EST reply actions
I thought Colt looked fine besides the INTs. And like SB has said, I’m actually not sure if we can really blame the 2nd one on him. Yeah, he shouldn’t have thrown it. But according to rotoworld, McCoy had concussion like symptoms following the game: the lights had to be dimmed during his presser and he said he was glassy eyed for 20 minutes after and doesn’t even remember the hit!
If this is the case, I’m wondering why the Browns medical staff allowed him to go back in.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
Oh, here it goes. Last night I stated I’m finally done with Colt, yet here I am…
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
You relapser you!
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 9, 2011 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
Hang in there. He’s not dead yet.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 9, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
They showed a nice view from behind Colt on the Troy INT (the 1st one of the game). Polamalu was already crashing down on the right as the deep S. There was a WR behind the CB on the left running a post to the area where Troy just ran away from. IMO Rodgers, Brady Manning, etc can complete that pass for a TD. Instead Colt throws to an area of 4 defenders and 2 WRs (running almost into each other). Yet still with that if he put some air into it and didnt underthrow Moore he had a chance to get a big completion.
I agree with this. It wasn’t a bad read; it was a bad throw. That was a TD. Moore had already slipped past Polamalu. I’m torn. I wish I had a better football mind so that I could definitively say that Colt physically can’t make that throw. That first drive, he made a very similar throw to Moore right over the CB, and it wasn’t 8 yards down the field. Again, I’m torn.
by chitown browns fan on Dec 9, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
I wish I had a better football mind so that I could definitively say that Colt physically can’t make that throw.
I wonder if anyone here could? (points at rufio)
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
Was this throw before or after the Harrison helmet attack?
by chitown browns fan on Dec 9, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
Lombardi- “If I were the Cleveland Browns I would rather have Brian Hoyer then Colt McCoy”
- WEEI Boston.
Why would we say Brian Hoyer? Matt Flynn would make more sense. What a tool.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
Listen, I have supported Colt, but last night he can not throw that pick. But then reading about how he didn’t remember the Harrison hit, there is no question he was not right. Either way he has to over throw the ball.
But Hoyer? dumb. If the Browns go a different direction; Flynn, RG3, or Barkley, I understand, however, they better get a excellent WR ( Bowe), get a RT and a RG.
they better get a excellent WR ( Bowe), get a RT and a RG.
Yep.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
How do we get Bowe? Why would he want to come here? The only way we get a FA like that is by offering a ludicrous contract that could handicap us when we are actually in position to get ‘1 more player’ for a playoff push. Also, its completely against Heckert MO. Hes going to build through the draft. Upgrade the QB, develop Little and MoMass (who looked pretty good for the most part last night- not near #1 quality, but a solid complement eventually) and we will draft at least 1 WR this time.
Why would he want to come here? The only way we get a FA like that is by offering a ludicrous contract that could handicap us when we are actually in position to get ‘1 more player’ for a playoff push. Also, its completely against Heckert MO. Hes going to build through the draft.
Read before you comment.
The host was asking about Ryan Mallet or something and he started talking about how he feels both Mallet and Hoyer (the 2 backups in NE) would be good starters over some of the young guys and then mentioned the browns.
I’m on record saying I think Mallet is going to be good, but I don’t think he fits what we want to do. I’d rather draft someone.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 10, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
i’m NotJoey, and i approve this message
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 12, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Lombardi is a moron.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 9, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
We were down 7-3 with 3 to play and had the ball inside th Steeler 10. Nobody expected us to be even in this one. You know what, it was a blast to watch my Browns in a packed BWW with 98% Steeler fans hang around and nearly steal the game.
Done with colt. Rather see a free agent with experience come in next year and throw to whatever WR we draft. Dqwell is beast. Our o line is a joke and even mighty Joe got worked most of the night. Guys need to get benched during games for dropping passes from here out. Nothin to lose and hopefully makes them think about what they did, or did not do as the case may be. As much opportunity as we had we should have crushed the stealers yet QB play and playcalling once again are our demise. Can’t wait for the draft…
Resident of Believeland.
by browndawgbacker on Dec 9, 2011 8:41 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions
So lets see. The O line is a joke, WR dropping passes, play calling sucks, but done with Colt. Seems like the majority of the board here. Comical.
The line played well, the WR’s weren’t that bad, and the play calling wasn’t always bad. Colt sucked and was a liability
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 9, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
only after the 6 minute mark of the 4th quarter
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 12, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
A few comments:
1. I enjoyed reading over this thread right now.
2. Harrison should be suspended.
3. This is the first game I was proud of the team’s effort, and I felt like they wanted to win the game. This is the kind of competitivess I have been asking for when I compare the team to last season.
4. I hated kicking the field goal on the first drive.
5. Wallace should have remained in the game after Colt came out late. Not because I think he is better, which he might be, but it doesn’t make sense to rush Colt back in there after the injuries and possible concussion.
6. My biggest issue with this game was the usage of the running backs. It was an absolute coaching failure. The majority of the carries in the heart of the game went to our least effective runner, Hardesty. Hillis and Obi were showing a lot more. I feel like the staff is trying to render Hillis useless and justify us letting him walk at the end of the year. Just pathetic.
I feel like the staff is trying to render Hillis useless and justify us letting him walk at the end of the year. Just pathetic.
I agree with that. I think they made that decision a while ago.
by jonnyphoenix on Dec 9, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
So, in effect you are saying the team has decided to throw the game (by not playing Hillis) so that people won’t be mad when he leaves in FA? Call me naive, but I believe the team is probably more interested in winning games.
I was thinking the exact same thing.
Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.
Best Hands on the Team: Evan Moore, Ben Watson, Peyton Hillis. I hated Hillis coming out on 3rd down. You could see how much he wanted to win a few times in the huddle. I would love to see some flipping fire from some players, I did like seeing D Jackson on the field after Colt got crushed…i was like hey that wasnt 4th down what was he doing out there.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 9, 2011 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
You could hear Hillis’ frustration on the broadcast, he was caught at least twice on camera yelling fuck.
At this point I don’t think there’s any way Hillis stays in Cleveland. I don’t think it’s even about whether the FO wants to sign him, I think he will just want the hell out of Cleveland.
I wouldn’t blame him, I’d be pissed being on the sideline wathcing Hardesty run right into the line for 2 yards.
Dorn, you speak the truth. Agree with each of your points. Regarding your 3rd point, however, while I do agree I am still feel really down for a Friday.
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Dec 9, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
I kept saying “Peyton is sooo gone next year.” The running game couldn’t have been managed worse.
Not that running behind these guards is going to get you anywhere.
"A drug person can learn to cope with things like seeing their dead grandmother crawling up their leg with a knife in her teeth. But no one should be asked to handle this trip." Thompson
Hillis had some success early and is also our best receiving back. His usage made no sense unless they are intent on making sure he is gone next year.
if they let hillis walk in a scheme to get trent richardson at the top of the draft i’m going to punch an infant
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 12, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
Really? Congratulations to B19K’s neighbor on the birth of his child.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
by Dawg Nuts on Dec 12, 2011 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I agree with all of this. On point 3, this team definitely had heart, but they were outcoached and didn’t have the Steelers’ talent level.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I agree on the talent, but not so sure about the coaching. The fact that we kept it so close with such inferior talent would indicate the coaching was pretty good at worst. I hated the first drive FG but it was the right call. I really hated the 3rd down call. A sneak would have been better.
The coaching came out strong on offense, but they could have won that game with better playcalling on offense imo (or better QB play, either one)
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Thinking about this game, I thought there were three crucial plays on offense that hugely affected the outcome:
3rd and goal at the 1 inch line: We asked our TE Smith to block the strongest OLB (Harrison) in football, and then ran Hillis right at him on a slow developing play. This play never had a chance. I was literally screaming at the TV to call a QB sneak. Should have been a TD
Later in the 1st quarter, Colt throws a bomb down the sideline to MoMass, who has one on one coverage. The pass is (by design?) thrown behind MoMass, who gets separation and then proceeds to drop the pass at the goal line. Really wish it had been Cribbs on this route, cause he tends to make these sort of catches. Should have been a TD
Late 4th quarter, 3rd and goal at the 15, the pocket beginning to crumble, Colt throws to MoMass who has one on one coverage in the endzone. The throw was bad, should have been over and outside the defender. MoMass should have taken an offensive passing interference before allowing the defender to catch that. Should have been a FG
I guess my point is this team was really close to (finally) having a statement game to build on for the future. We desperately need playmakers on offense. I don’t think we’re that far off though.
…and the under-thrown ball to moore, don’t know if it would’ve went for a td, but at least a large gain.
This. Or throw it to the WR that was single covered running a post through the area Troy left completely uncovered over the middle of the field. McCoy was locked into a route that time and badly underthrew it.
The INT intended for Moore was a horrible play by Colt, but it really didn’t have that big an impact on the game IMO.
Welcome to another episode of the Sweetness and Light DBN post-game thread. Does anyone think the level of vitriol is getting a bit high? It is not like we don’t know the Browns suck or anything. So some Steeler fans want to rub it in… I would to them were the tables turned. Interesting thing… the game was actually kind of fun to watch until the last 5 minutes or so. That surprised me. I think this game should be in the dictionary defining “Smashmouth football”.
I still think Colt is definitely not the guy… hope more of you saw the truth in that tonight. But I really didn’t expect much from a pick in the 3rd round of the draft. The good news is we didn’t pick him in the first round and it really isn’t much of a loss to admit he isn’t the guy.
There is no reason to play Seneca over Colt as we know he isn’t the guy either.
I think the future direction is pretty evident. The team must get a quarterback that has the potential to be in the top half of the league. We’ll go no where with a guy that grades out in the high 20’s every week. Also, I think the head coach decision needs to be revisited. Shurmur is in way over his head. Here is how I see it… if Holmgren/Heckert get us a credible upgrade at QB next year I’ll be tolerant for another year. If they somehow swallow their pride and can Shurmur as well, I’ll have total hope like I did when Holmgren was first hired (though this has about a .0000003527% chance of happening). Anything else and we’ll be in for another, long, year of sweet, happy talk on DBN.
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Dec 9, 2011 11:44 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
hope more of you saw the truth in that tonight
What I saw last night gave me reason for optimism. In my opinion the guy played like a legitimate up and coming NFL QB for 54 minutes, against the best defense in the NFL. He should not, however, have been allowed to return to the game after the hit from Harrison, after which it became clear that his head was still hazy. It was bad judgment call by Shurmur to let McCoy talk him into letting him go right back out there.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 9, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
I saw enough last night to get me 100% off the Colt McCoy bandwagon. I don’t want to just be a formidable team- I want us to be a Super Bowl contending team. You have have HAVE to have a very good QB to get to the Super Bowl. Very good QBs find a way to win in situations like last night, they don’t find ways to throw the game away by throwing to the other team. Colt may be a decent QB someday, but let him go somewhere else and be that guy. We need a great QB- Colt is not that.
How do Qb’s become great? Just because they are drafted in the 1st round doesn’t make them great. This mind set is just maddening because satisfaction is never achieved. It is always the next guy. He’ll be the one. If we only had “x” we would win the Superbowl. “X” is a mirage its a myth. There is no silver bullet. The sooner people stop looking for the silver bullet the better they will see growth in the team.
by SBP on Dec 9, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
there is no silver bullet, that is true. but the closest thing to it is a great qb.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 12, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
It was bad judgment call by Shurmur to let McCoy talk him into letting him go right back out there.
More importantly, it was strictly against league policy. Shurmur may not survive this.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
He’s supposed to be speaking with the press this afternoon about this. I’ll be very interested to hear what he has to say.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 9, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
He’s going to say absolutely nothing. And if he says that he didn’t know or that he thought he was fine, I want him gone tomorrow. There is blatant disregard for a human life by letting him back in and the latter statements would prove that’s how he felt on the subject.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
I would say there is definitely a chance. Either way, someone is getting fired over it, but maybe it’ll just be trainers or team doctors as someone said above.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
When it comes to a possible concussion to your starting QB, I believe the buck has to stop with Shurmur if the trainers failed to evaluate him properly.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 9, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
So what you are saying is you’re intoxicated?
he looked like an up and coming QB, yet he couldn’t score despite ample opportunities and killed multiple drives.
Got it.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 9, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not intoxicated. You, however, are toxic. And your comments are often downright nauseating.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 9, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
So once again, you want a QB who can’t finish drives or score. Thanks for clearing that up for me
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 9, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think he’s saying this… I think he’s trying to tell you that your style of whining accomplishes nothing except give you the attention you seem to so deeply cherish.
"A drug person can learn to cope with things like seeing their dead grandmother crawling up their leg with a knife in her teeth. But no one should be asked to handle this trip." Thompson
i give BOAB a lot of credit for trying (and largely succeeding) to be objective about mccoy, but it’s hard to fully suppress the inner homer entirely. that’s not a criticism … i would expect BOAB to view even a glimmer of hope from colt as a big positive.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 12, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
AHH! I still can’t get over that INT in the endzone. He should have tossed it up to Moore who was 1on1over on the right side. Let Moore jump up for it over a smaller CB.
Dude, McCoy had no clue what was going on at that point in the game. He was grasping at straws. He couldn’t even remember his name.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
Memory loss is a key component to concussions. If they let him in and then later told the cameras to turn the lights off, what does that say? That the Browns knew he was hurt and threw him under a bus, almost literally. I buy it 100%. I’ve had to play through concussions and see what they’ve done to friends. It’s horrible and really humbles a person on brain trauma.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
If you go back and look, after the hit, Colt sort of patted Harrison on the helmet sort of like “Its okay man.” I don’t think a fully coherent person would go and do that directly after being leveled, especially during that game.
Right. How did he not remember the hit, but yet he remembered enough to explicitly forgive Harrison not long after it.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 9, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
There are pieces still there for you to work with. He’s still coherent and still has pieces to put into place due to the timeframe and adrenaline. That’s why when he went out, he didn’t ask what a football was. But when he went to bed and his mind started working on itself and piecing the memory back, he lost all long term memory on the subject,
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
he remembered enough to explicitly forgive Harrison
Stop being ridiculous. Harrison came up to a McCoy, who was in a daze, and said something to him. McCoy patted him on the helmet. Somehow this goes into the buggy translator application that is your mind, and it comes out as “he remembered enough to explicitly forgive Harrison”. I believe it is you who needs his head examined.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 9, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
I also haven’t seen a quote that proves what Harrison actually said there. Mayock was just putting words in both of their mouths. For all we know Harrison could of just asked how Colt was doing. Or nice try getting the ball out. So to say that Colt accepted his apology and therefor remembered the hit is pure speculation.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 9, 2011 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t buy it
Then go buy a Buffalo jersey.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 9, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
He patted Harrison on the helmet a few plays later, as if nothing happened.
by chitown browns fan on Dec 9, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
you know what, If I am hit in the head and in a daze, I randomly pat people on the head too sometimes because I just don’t know what’s going on.
Why the heck are we speculating the motives into a head pat?!?
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
by bross09 on Dec 9, 2011 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
We don’t know what happened. He could’ve been concussed and not remembered. He could’ve just been cool with the hit and moved on. You’re right. We just don’t know.
by chitown browns fan on Dec 9, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
Why the heck are we speculating the motives into a head pat?!?
Amen.
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 10, 2011 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
you want to know what I don’t buy more? The bullshit excuses the coaching staff used to justify putting Colt back in.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
This is directly from Rotoworld:
Colt McCoy’s father said Friday that the Browns QB doesn’t remember anything after James Harrison’s helmet-to-helmet hit Thursday night, and never should have been allowed back in the game.
“I talked to Colt this morning and he said, ‘Dad, I don’t know what happened, but I know I lost the game. I know I let the team (down). What happened? … He was basically out (cold) after the hit … He was nauseated and he didn’t know who he was. From what I could see, they didn’t test him for a concussion on the sidelines.” As we suspected, the Browns are going to land in hot water for this one. McCoy should never have been rushed back into the game. Dec 9 – 12:22 PM
by chitown browns fan on Dec 9, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
I said it in the fanshot but I’ll say it again. The blatant ignorance displayed by this coaching staff on McCoy’s concussion is disgusting and inhumane. They need to be punished severely on this and I honestly want to see people fired.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
Not that I’ disagreeing with you but maybe the fact that Shurmur has so many responsibilities that he wasn’t aware of Colt’s situation. Whoever talked to Colt needs to be fired, I agree with that.
Shurmur stood right in front of Colt and watched the game while they worked on him
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
This is the general consensus on what happened.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
he wasn’t aware of Colt’s situation
If this is true, that alone is a serious problem.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 9, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
That’s what I’m saying. That it wasn’t Shurmur’s intention to put McCoy back in the game with a concussion, but it just was an unfortunate series of events that led to McCoy going back in so early. But the trainers should have let Shurmur know what was going on with Colt.
Take my word for it, the trainers didn’t evaluate McCoy for concussions symptoms. I’ve watched the game film replay and that segment which includes several camera shots to the sideline. He was only out of the game for 2 minutes and 15 seconds and they only tended to his hand during that entire time. They weren’t even looking at his face or speaking with him.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 9, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
Did anyone on the coaching staff even see the hit? That’d be the first thing I do when I see my QB take a helmet to helmet and roll on the ground for a few seconds.
I guarantee you everyone in the stadium saw the hit replayed on the big screen.
Regardless, he was lying there on his back pretty much motionless, the officials flag Harrison for a helmet to helmet hit, what else does the coaching staff need to know?
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 9, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
if he seriously didn’t know about it, it’s just as bad. it HAS to get to the coach if your QB has concussion-like symptoms. If not, its indicative of the complete lack of communication skills on that sideline.
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Wait, has it been announced that McCoy has a concussion? I imagine these trained professionals know when someone has one, especially considering MoMass was out for considerable amount of time with one.
I find it hard to believe they would let him back out there with one.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 9, 2011 2:53 PM EST reply actions
I mean I guess it’s possible, and if it’s true then all hell is going to rain down on them and this organization and they deserve it. But I don’t see the motivation behind it.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 9, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
Shurmur confirmed today they are treating him with a concussion.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
Either 1) Mccoy lied to the Athletic Trainer and Physicians about symptoms, or 2) those medical personnel failed to do their job. I guess 3) Shurmer ignores the medical advice and sent Mccoy out to get killed but I highly doubt that.
I would expect Colt to lie to try to go back in, but I would also expect medical professionals to recognize his concussion symptoms despite what he was saying to them.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
Colt could have been just saying that his hand hurts. So all the focus was on his hand.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 9, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed, especially after the league’s recent focus on head injuries. This whole situation nauseates me.
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 10, 2011 12:07 AM EST up reply actions
What’s with all the trolling on each other from regulars? Did anybody really expect a different outcome? We kept up with the Steelers almost all game, and got a chance to improve our draft position. It’s an ideal situation for 4-8, now 4-9
Browns coach Pat Shurmur defended his team’s handling of quarterback Colt McCoy’s head injury in a loss to Pittsburgh.
McCoy sustained a concussion from a vicious helmet-to-helmet hit from Steelers linebacker James Harrison in the fourth quarter Thursday. McCoy stayed out for two plays before coming back in and throwing an interception. Shurmur said McCoy didn’t show any symptoms of a concussion until after the game.
Shurmur is confident the Browns’ medical staff followed the NFL’s guidelines on head injuries when they assessed McCoy on the sideline. McCoy told Shurmur "he was ready to go" before going back in. Shurmur was adamant that if McCoy had been symptomatic "he would not have gone back in the game—absolutely not."
I don’t believe that the trainers didn’t check him for symptoms. They’ll probably start taking people out automatically after every head shot
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 9, 2011 3:31 PM EST reply actions
Ok that interception he threw was so bad, that alone could be a symptom. Colt isn’t that good, but even he wouldn’t normally throw into coverage like that.
This is the guy who threw a pick when he was trying to throw out of bounds. That’s Seneca Wallace bad.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 10, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
They didn’t check him for concussion symptoms.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 9, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
i don’t think we can say that definitively.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 12, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Come on. It took them 2 minutes to check for a concussion? Anywhere else takes at least a week. The guy needed to be tested by a neurologist. This is ridiculous. Why would he then trust McCoy’s own opinion? THIS IS ALL SO STUPID.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly. McCoy telling Shurmur he’s “ready to go” had better mean absolutely nothing to Shurmur right after he took a violent hit to the head. That is just plain frigging common sense.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 9, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
A trained professional like on the sidelines (Physician and athletic trainer) can go through appropriate concussion screening in under 5 minutes. They should have caught obvious signs immediately.
No one checked him for concussion symptoms. They treated his left hand, that’s it.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 9, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
You have no way of knowing that. Despite however many “overhead shots” you witnessed.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 9, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
The fact that they put him back in proves they never checked, because if they did check, they would have found that he was concussed and kept him out, no matter how much Colt complained.
Right because he was then diagnosed with one this morning. What the hell?
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
Are you guys not reading the statements? He said they checked, and after a hit like that and the fact he stayed down for a while, it just doesn’t seem probably they said “fuck it”
I’m willing to bet that no two concussions are a like. I have no doubt in my mind that some symptoms can be delayed. It’s very possible that they did the standard checks and nothing alarmed at the moment
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 9, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
After a day to look over what happened, of course Shurmur is going to say they checked. I find that a statement he’s making just to save his ass. I think in the heat of the moment, they completely looked over his head issues and went right to the obvious physical issue and when they taped it down in two plays, he came back in and they put his life at risk.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Like I said it’s entirely possible, but I don’t see it as being likely. There is no way in hell a coach would set themselves up for the repercussions from something like this, especially when there are hundreds of surrounding witnesses who would be able to attest to what happened.
I don’t give a shit about shurmer to protect him from something this serious, but to assume they did something as blantant as not test for a concussion after one of the worst shots on a QB this year would have deep implications.
And lets be honest here. Team trainers are well trained in this area, especially after the issues that have popped up over them in recent year. Doctors put a lot into studying concussions and their effects. No poster on this forum is included in either of those categories, so no one on here is qualified to imply anything on concussions and their immediate or delayed effects, nore the checks that are used. I think it’s more probable to assume that they did standard tests to get it out the way and a lot were delayed, but they didn’t want to wait to test the symptoms over time which is a horrible problem within itself
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 9, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
This is true, most likely if it’s a minor concussion, where the symptoms aren’t as strong anyway.
"Tracers work both ways" ~US Army Ordnance
Wrong. Even in “minor concussions” (if you believe any head injury is minor) symptoms appear almost instantly. For example, ever get hit and have a head ache from it? You had a concussion.
i gotta say, if a guy takes a missile to the face and is laid out on the turf for like 2 full minutes, as a head coach i’m keeping him on the bench for longer than 2 plays. clearly, easy for me to say sitting here, but i feel pretty strongly about that. concussion or no concussion, the guy got his bell freaking rung. let him take a couple of minutes and get the cobwebs shaken out.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 12, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Hm, good point. Also, there are different degrees of concussions, just fyi. Some can be career ending, while others only keep the player out for a week. I don’t have a lot of experience with concussions, so I was guessing mostly….oh well, I stand corrected.
"Tracers work both ways" ~US Army Ordnance
I don’t know much about concussions, but once in baseball guy slid headfirst. was knocked out, but because it was game winning run, no one noticed as we picked him up and cheered. he was awake a minute later, was coherent. it wasn’t till 30 minutes that he forgot what happened and started feeling nauseated.
by youngergenerationbrownsfan on Dec 9, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
ever get hit and have a head ache from it? You had a concussion.
this can’t be true, can it?
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 12, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
Meh, it’s not exactly that cut and dry but yes. OL are believed to receive many micro concussions throughout games just by hitting helmets when they snap.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 12, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
They aren’t going to put him back in with a concussion and they clearly had to have checked him after a head shot where he could barely get up.
I’m telling you a standard concussion evaluation was not performed between the time he was taken off the field and the time he was put back in to replace Wallace.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 9, 2011 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
If they can check in under 5 minutes, I wonder how validated that check is. Also, 2 minutes is outlandish for a test anyways. Brain trauma is serious stuff. Symptoms can linger and start late.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think that anyone can know if he has a concussion until later tests are taken, but if you think it’s a possibility, you should keep him out until you can know whether or not it is a concussion
you should keep him out until you can know whether or not it is a concussion
This is the bottom line, and this is where Shurmur made an egregious error in judgement last night.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 9, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
Cranial nerves (eye movement, pupil dilation/constriction, basic facial movements, taste, smell, hearing etc), Romberg, BESS, memory recall all are very simple things that you can do that if you have a concussion will show up. I find it very hard to believe these were checked and deemed ok by medical staff. Like you said Brain trauma is serious stuff and usually shows up rather fast.
It can show fast but it can also hide behind things like adrenaline.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
No. Your eyes dont lie. and adrenaline will not delay a major injury like that. It may mask pain because thats a completely different nervous system to deal with.
You’re getting endorphins and adrenaline confused.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
I got T Boned in my car two years ago and had a month long delay before my concussion symptoms crept up. I had to go to the doctor because I had no idea why I had symptoms… he told me it’s not uncommon.
"A drug person can learn to cope with things like seeing their dead grandmother crawling up their leg with a knife in her teeth. But no one should be asked to handle this trip." Thompson
I’ll agree with this. I blasted a my friend once with a golf cart. He hit his head on the ground and squealed like a pig for a minute. He finished the last few holes and everything seemed fine. He was even joking with me about it. It wasn’t till later that night he kept asking what happened. After the 3rd time of me telling him that I hit him with the cart, we took him to the emergency room. Doctor told us it was a late reaction to a concussion.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 9, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
Do you remember if that INT was before of after the concussion?
by chitown browns fan on Dec 9, 2011 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
I was wondering why no one was on here then realized it’s a Friday night at 10:30 Cle time.
by chitown browns fan on Dec 9, 2011 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not that funny. But I’ll tell you the story. Only because it’s golf related and you could picture it.
A few of us from the golf team had the day off. It was finals week (Senior Year). Shawn, who tried out every year but wasn’t on the team, went with us that day. Shawn has Cerebral Palsy. He loved golf and he was one of our good friends. We would get in fights for Shawn at school to protect him.
Now to that day. I was looking for my ball. Came around a tree at full speed. Grass is wet. Saw Shawn and slammed on the breaks. I slid 6 feet into him. He has CP, so it wasn’t like he was able to jump out of the way. I hit him once and he bounced back. Cart kept sliding. Then I hit him again. To this day I just want to run full speed head first in to a wall and show my respect to Shawn. He told me not to worry about it. I want to just cut my foot off to honor him.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 9, 2011 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not that awesome. i still hate myself for it.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 10, 2011 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
It happens, those sort of things are the stuff you laugh about later as long as nobody dies or loses a limb.
Nah dude. It was a big deal. Brad and I had to go to his house and explain to his parents what happened. To this day, Shawn doesn’t know I blasted him with a cart.
The last thing he said to me before I moved was "Come back and I’ll kick your ass at fucking golf". He was such a trooper. He’ll be mentioned in my eulogy.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 10, 2011 1:04 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed. Either they failed to do their jobs properly (doing upper qtr screen, quick memory recall etc) and/or Mccoy lied about symptoms like headache blurry vision and so on. Probably a quick mix of both. Tho a seriously concussed person will do anything to get back out there, and may not know what they are doing at the time.
It should not matter what the QB says, you take a hit like that, you stay out for at least the rest of the drive, should have been the rest of the game. And forget about the game, that’s really dangerous to Colt’s health to throw him back in.
I think they saw the opportunity to go ahead and they wanted to get him in there a quickly as possible. I don’t think they didn’t check, but I don’t think they went the extra mile to make sure he was okay
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 9, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
I could see this but from what I saw, I didn’t see obvious signs of concussion checks either.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
There was no concussion evaluation between him getting leveled and being sent back out to replace Wallace. Its become pretty obvious to me that that is the fact of the matter.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 9, 2011 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
I remember watching football during the time he left and the time he came back – do you have a special feed to the training table?
I remember watching football during the time he left and the time he came back
Since you’ve admitted you were shitfaced by the fourth quarter you apparently don’t remember so I suggest you watch the game film.
I reviewed that segment of the game film. McCoy was off the field for a grand total of two minutes and fifteen seconds. The trainers spent that time working on his left hand. The cameras panned over several times. The two trainers were intently working on his hand while he was on the sideline and not even looking at McCoy’s face much less talking to him or doing a concussion evaluation.
I’ve seen concussion evaluations performed on players. It is a standard procedure of a combination of eye movement tests, a series of questions, and a balance test. Nothing of the sort was done with McCoy by those trainers before he was sent back in to the game. If they did do some kind of “check” it was a sorrowfully inadequate “check” because it now clear that he did indeed sustain a concussion.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 9, 2011 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
BTW – nothing wrong with being shitfaced when watching a Browns/Steelers game. In fact I’d say it is probably advisable. I’m actually feeling envious now.
I had three beers last night and now wish I had at least finished off the six pack.
I might have been able to just pass out instead of being a insufferable grouch with my wife when I went to bed. Didn’t end well and neither of us got any sleep.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 9, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
I was pretty shocked to see him back on the field so quickly. If you are right there I think there will be some heavy crap coming down on the Browns and it might be good for them to get a slap in your face.
To tell you the truth, the thing that pisses me off as much as anything is the fact that they sent McCoy back in to do a job that Wallace was better equipped to do at that point because McCoy was still reeling from the shot to the head and Wallace had come out sharp and was rolling. Yes, I was concerned about McCoy but SHIT I wanted to see us win that damn game and we were so fucking close.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 9, 2011 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, i mean even without a concussion, mccoy was clearly going to have a tough time running the offense less than 5 minutes after having his bell totally rung. not sure what the rush was to get him back on the field.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 12, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
Tho a seriously concussed person will do anything to get back out there, and may not know what they are doing at the time.
And he didn’t.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 9, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Shurmur said McCoy didn’t show any symptoms of a concussion until after the game.
BS.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Yeah that’s why the Browns PR asked them to turn the lights off.
Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions!
"That's why Carolina's in Chapel Hill and USC's in California and the University in this state always has been and always will be Clemson . . . You can print that, tweet that, whatever." -Dabo Swinney
Who to fire....
To hell with it, fire the whole damn team – even Joe Thomas had a false start!
What Dawg Nuts means is that we don’t use the re: line because it’s unnecessary and difficult on the eyes and . . . wait. Oh. Umm . . . smoke ’em if you got ’em.
by chitown browns fan on Dec 9, 2011 10:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I believe he also may be referring to the fact that he may not have long to live.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 10, 2011 7:30 AM EST up reply actions
Joe Thomas’ false start was a farcical call. I didn’t see any movement on replay.
by woodsmeister on Dec 10, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
No, he rocked back a bit. I dropped a F bomb when I saw him move.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 10, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
And now that I think of it, we had a few no-calls on false starts. I saw Pinkston moving around on a few plays but I was never called.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 10, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
*it was never called.
Damn hangovers.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 10, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
to be fair, at the point where they implied there was movement, Harrison was already at least in the neutral zone and may have been behind the LOS. Play should’ve been an offsides the way it looked to me.
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I want to go back and look at this, because I don’t remember the exact time that Thomas flinched.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I have a few questions:
1. Why weren’t we blitzing when Ben came back into the game hobbled, especially on that 3rd and 23 or whatever when he completed the pass to Antonio Brown across the middle that eerily reminded me of the Dalton to Green fiasco a couple weeks ago? Our defense should have been unrelenting like sharks sensing blood in the water as soon as he came back and for the rest of the game. We should have forced the Steelers’s coaching staff to have feared for the remainder of their season and pulled him. Instead, we added to his legacy.
2. Why was Hillis used so sparingly? Granted, the most effective run was Ogbannaya on that draw, and Hillis wasn’t doing much, but still, he’s a bruiser. I remember running him 25 or 30 times a game for 3 yards a pop until the defense relented, and he’d break one for 25 or 35. He is our most effective back, and for the record, Hardesty (and his spin moves) is the the least effective. The coaching staff treats certain aspects of the game like reps in training camp where guys are competing for a spot instead of trying to win real life football games.
3. Gocong was a friggin’ beast on that goal line stand. And this might sound naive, but why doesn’t he attack gaps like that when we’re not on the goal line?
4. Why didn’t we QB sneak on the 3rd and goal at the beginning of the game? And why not treat it like 4 down territory in the most hostile environment for our team? Worst outcome would have been turnover on downs at the 1 inch line. The way our goal line defense has been playing, I would’ve done this in a heartbeat and made the Steelers try to march 99.9 yards.
5. Why was Sheldon Brown covering Mike Wallace all night?
6. Did anyone else notice that on several of the plays when our receivers were covered and the pocket was collapsing, the middle of the field was wide open for Colt to run? Whether it’s a running back or the QB, run if you can to keep that defense honest, especially if no one’s open and you have the legs and the opportunity to do so. I know that this is inadvisable for a lot of young QBs because you want them to be pocket passers, but Colt hasn’t ever been one to abuse the opportunity, so if it’s the best viable option, why not?
by chitown browns fan on Dec 9, 2011 10:58 PM EST reply actions
1. I was asking the same thing and then we did blitz and got burned. Given how efficient their passing offense is lately it looked taking away their passing windows was working better.
2. I think this coaching staffI is a little too impatient to use Hillis or the running game enough. They see a 14 point deficit in the 2nd quarter (example) as it being necessary to pass 50 times. They abandon the run way too quickly, however I’m not sure Hillis is really going to be what they’re looking for in a RB. I guess its a passing league so we should be building a passing offense but we’re not a good one.
3. My guess is that Gocong has to worry about getting burned to the outside or possibly dropping into pass pro so he can’t always crash in on a gap like he can on the goal line. I have noticed that he’s an excellent blitzer and they need to find ways to send him crashing in while still covering the hole he leaves. So far it has led to a lot of big plays for the other team when he’s abandoned his position.
4. Someone addressed this above but if Colt got stuffed we’ld be asking why they didn’t use Hillis. I still think kicking at that point was the right move and given how the game played out for 98% of it it was the right call.
5. Poor Sheldon was getting crushed. He’s lost too much speed. They’ll need to figure out a replacement. I guess probably Patterson with Skrine moving to the slot.
6. Do we have anyone in the press box watching this stuff to tell them down on the field? I know most people don’t think it will matter having an OC next year because Holmgren said Shurmur still calls the plays but that doesn’t mean they won’t have an impact. Also Holmgren may have just been saving Shurmur’s face.
I think we’re a little too hard on Sheldon. Sure, he’s no pro bowler or anything, but he’s still better than a lot of corners starting in the NFL.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 10, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Yep I’m currently rewatching and he makes some plays. Kind of hard to blame him for getting burned by Wallace in single coverage. I thought for the most part they did a good job covering some very fast receivers. It kind of tilts the doubt about their #1 pass ranking a little back into their favor. They definitely benefit from the lack of run defense but I still think they’re realistically a top 10 def. backfield and will get better as Haden and Ward improve.
I like Sheldon, especially his ability to tackle. However, Mike Wallace is the biggest threat on that offense. I thought we’d see Haden on him.
by chitown browns fan on Dec 10, 2011 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
We really need to upgrade at the safety position. I think one thing that gets missed when discussing the run defense is the role of the safety. The run fit of the safety is very important, and that’s something Ward usually does well.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 11, 2011 8:16 AM EST up reply actions
Fire Shurmur Bandwagon? I think I might jump on soon…
by Mr. Bad Example on Dec 9, 2011 11:03 PM EST reply actions
Concussed or not, if you look at the INT Colt threw in the end zone, can someone please tell me why MoMass runs behind the defender on an out pattern? Wouldn’t you want to NOT have the defender between you and the passer? If MoMass cuts out at the goal line in FRONT of Gay that’s probably a TD. Can someone tell me if he ran the route wrong or is supposed to be that stupid. It’s clear it wasn’t supposed to be a fade which is another terrible play anyway. I know our receivers suck but seriously, this doesn’t seem particularly difficult to know you shouldn’t put the defender between you and the passer.
The ball was meant for the back of the endzone ala Dolphins winner. Understand the play. Colt missed it so badly because his noodle was fried. Colt tossed the rock to fast for any other play, if Mass “cuts”, he screws the play up.
Good job by the insiders on Colt/Shumur. They hate each other. Holmgren should have waited a year to draft a QB. At least be on page with the coach.
by Johnnypronto on Dec 10, 2011 3:57 AM EST up reply actions
You seem to be lost, my friend. Here you go: cleveland.com/browns
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 10, 2011 7:36 AM EST up reply actions
That would be a 10xs harder throw to try and get it up over the defender but also drop down quick enough before MoMass goes out of bounds. He also clearly wasn’t running back to the back pylon like it was a fade? It just seems like a quick out to the front pylon is much safer and results in a TD. I’m sure this play is all Colt’s fault as much as it was route running and/or play design.
The play was the play. It was a fade to the back endzone. Colt has had some success with that this year. He was not in his right mind from Harrisons bs.
by Johnnypronto on Dec 10, 2011 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
Yep, it was a horrible throw for any QB who’s playing with a clear head. For someone who just received a concussion I’d say it was one hell of a throw. The problem is, he shouldn’t have been trying to take snaps, sidestep blitzers and throw a football while he was reeling from a concussion.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 11, 2011 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
it was a horrible throw. end of thought. we all know he was concussed and all agree that he shouldn’t have been out there making any throws. you don’t have to keep on this.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 12, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
There’s simply no point in criticizing any throw or any read or any other aspect of his performance after he was concussed, i.e. saying “it was a horrible throw” is utterly pointless.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 12, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
the question at hand is about the play call/design. dorn is saying that it was a flag pattern, but the throw was terrible. that’s enough of an answer. it was a horrible throw. a horrible throw w/ extenuating circumstances, but a horrible throw nonetheless. everyone stipulates that colts shouldn’t have been out there … there is no homerism required on this one.
by DontCallMeJoey on Dec 12, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
Got it, I see your point. Sorry but this concussion crap has me pretty aggravated. Think I just need to step back for a while.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 12, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
/fetal position, rocking back and forth
by chitown browns fan on Dec 12, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
Colt renamed Gelding
Two things that I think people have missed, amusingly on the first and final possessions:
On the first-quarter called-back touchdown, there is no excuse for Gelding not holding the ball high enough to punch it in; to have a TD called back because you let your arm touch the way his did is not the mark of a good quarterback or of someone with the potential to become a good quarterback. Remember, they got him on the unforced touching by his forearm, not on his knee hitting.
On the final possession, Gelding simply gave up. There was no clock management, no attempt to get it in the endzone right away to have a chance at an onside kick and a last desperate play. They. Gave. Up.
Fie on Gelding, Fie on Shumer.
McCoy shows little that would put him in even the middlin’ rankings among NFL quarterbacks on his best day. It makes enormous sense to give Wallace the job for the remainder of the year and see what he does. I do not think you would see Seneca failing to notice the opportunity for a scramble for a first down up the middle as Gelding did repeatedly. I don’t think he would tank the last possession like Gelding and Shumer did. I think Browns fans tend to underrate Wallace’s ability to improvise when needed.
I stopped reading at Gelding.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 10, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
I’m not calling him Gelding. That’s ridiculous.
by Brownie's Year on Dec 10, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Gelding? Um, no.
In Cribbs, Dawson and Thomas we trust. All others must pay in Ws.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 10, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
no, he is much more rational in his colt hate.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Nope not me. I just read and took in all the comments. I have been trying to just read and trying not hitting the same points over and over. Bross you actually gave me a compliment as it were. The way the game ended the other night, was telling, and a shame. It was a tiny spark , but we are still so far away. Interesting off season coming.
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