Official NFL Draft Thread (Part I)
by Chris Pokorny on Feb 17, 2011 6:41 PM EST
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PrintI said I would do this a couple of weeks ago, so this post is long overdue. As the draft approaches, we will have a series of open threads for general discussion on the NFL Draft. This will help so there aren't a million threads about the same draft-related topic, and it should also stimulate discussion for the draft that you might not feel is worthy of its own FanPost.
For now, I will set the comment threshold at 300 comments. Comments will not be closed when this amount is reached, but rather another draft thread will be created for more current discussion. The topics you can discuss can be related to the Cleveland Browns or any other NFL team as it pertains to the draft. Feel free to get the discussion going!
This is a fan-created post. Dawgs By Nature assumes no responsibility for the content listed.
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Offense or Defense the draft is always fun
I think the Browns have no choice in drafting a DL/LB , with the number 6 pick,after the release of the guys last week. It would be interesting to see though if AJ Green comes down to the #6 spot. I think Shurmur and Holmgren’s offensive mind set would scoop him up with the quickness.
you have to wonder….in our FO, who has the intial say when it comes to drafting, and who can override/has final say?
by discoinferno083 on Feb 17, 2011 7:04 PM EST reply actions
I’m thinking Heckert does most of the work, Holmgren just OKs the picks. And Shurmer keeps trying to climb onto a chair to see what Papa Walrus and Uncle Tommy are working on.
"Quote goes here."
Yeah, I’m thinking the same. I do not believe that Holmgren makes every single decision in the FO, as ESPN seems to believe and give no credit to Mangini or Heckert for last years draft.
by usarmyjon13f on Feb 17, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
Correct. Holmgren does not make every decision because he has already predetermined most of them through his divine plan that transcends all mere mortals’ understanding.
ESPN is just playing the percentages like they always seem to do lately. What else is new?
Remember our motto.
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is. -- Yogi Berra
by JustPlainBrowns on Feb 17, 2011 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
cool. it will be interesting to see the struggle/balance between Def and offensive needs.
by discoinferno083 on Feb 17, 2011 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
Our D always seems to be at least adequate, but our Offense is always terrible. I say AJ Green, if not, then D-Line.
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by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 17, 2011 10:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If hes still available in the 2nd Titus Young from Boise is perfect for new offense (desean jackson mold)
there do seem to be a few good WR’s available in Rd 2. The guy from Pitt, maybe one from Troy…
by discoinferno083 on Feb 17, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
jonathan baldwin. I would rather have him for his size.
by macdowellm03 on Feb 18, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
I also believe Young would be a good pick if we end up going defense with our first pick. He has the speed, route running, and hands of Desean Jackson. Remember Heckert drafted Jackson while he was with the Eagles
let’s not get too nuts. jackson’s like top-3 fastest guys in the nfl … young isn’t quite there yet.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 18, 2011 1:41 AM EST up reply actions
true we haven’t seen his 40 time yet but the consensus opinion is that he’ll be one of the fastest WRs coming out this year… which also fits what Heckert has done in past drafts with philly.
by Brocolis154033 on Feb 18, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
I believe if AJ Green is there we must take him. He has the potential to be a pro bowl receiver with all of his intangibles. However if he is not there we must go defense. I believe if Green is gone and Peterson is there, we can not pass up on Peterson because of his freakish athletic abilities (also would give us an elite secondary with Haden, Ward, Peterson, Brown). Rumors have us looking at Marcus Stroud so that could fill DT for a couple years so DE is my next choice if the Green and Peterson are gone.
We also have to keep in mind the reality that our division is not as pass-heavy as others…so the secondary would help….but not neccesarily be essential.
we need a complete defense, either way.
by discoinferno083 on Feb 17, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
all of his intangibles
Like what?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 18, 2011 8:59 AM EST up reply actions
I’ll soon be posting a profile on him – let me see what I can come up with on the “intangibles” front (the good and/or bad…).
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Feb 18, 2011 9:05 AM EST up reply actions
do you want me to wait and let you post the intangibles, or shall I list some that I know about him, have read about him, and seen in him?
Go for it!
I just thought I’d mention that I’ll be posting a ‘draft profile’ on him soon.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Feb 18, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
AJ Green possesses elite route running skills, excellent hands, great size at 6’4, and he can jump up to get any ball. He is not blazing fast but his route running skills and ability to separate make up for the speed. He runs a 4.4-4.5 40. We will get official at combine. Draft analysts are comparing him to Calvin Johnson type receiver.
like DN said, those are all tangible skills. “intangibles” would be something like his work ethic, locker room presence, etc…
Also, that comparison is not a good one. When you are talking about skill sets and body types, he is not Calvin Johnson. Calvin Johnson has the speed of a track star in the body of a Tight End. The comparison I have heard more is Randy moss. When you are talking skill-set, he is a poor man’s moss. He is a little thinner, a little slower, and a little less athletic than moss was. However, his game is closer to moss and his body type is too.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Here is a good source to see all of Green’s tangibles and intangibles if you have espn insider. If not I can post all of the information so you guys can see. http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/26072/aj-green
I know this is a lot of post in a row but here is a very good article on A.J. Greens intangibles.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;ylt=AkxVqKUvpECFlMBw_6QvEhDubYF?slug=pfw-20110217_suspension_helped_green_reach_next_level
I am sorry for the confusion. They say he was an above average student, and well respected by both teammates and coaches.
There’s a Youtube clip somewhere out there where his coach says that he barely ever drops a pass in practice. He also said that Green has a hunger and determination in him to be successful. That speaks well of his hands and his work ethic. He doesn’t slack in practice or lose focus. I think that’s important, especially when you look at a very good receiver like Brandon Marshall who will probably never be great because he doesn’t have that sort of work ethic or focus.
We also have to keep in mind the reality that our division is pass rush – heavy . . . so the drafting of Nate Solder for right tackle would help . . . but not neccesarily be essential . . . . unless you want to build the best offensive line in football.
we need a complete offense , either way.
I wouldn’t at all say our division is Pass rush-heavy at this point. Its really only pittsburgh. Baltimore and cincinnati both had fairly anemic rushing offenses; both ranking in the bottom 6 in sack rate (which is sacks as a total of pass plays; adjusting to the offensive playcalling). Baltimore really only had 2 effective Pass Rushers; Suggs (who will line up generally across from Joe thomas) and Ngata who isn’t an edge rusher. Their Strong Side OLBs were awful blitzing this year. the bengals also have nothing outside of Dunlap. Neither team makes me think we need a bookend RT.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I’d really be OK with a bookend RT (we’re going to have to go through Pittsburgh to get to the Super Bowl ;) ), but I don’t know anything about this Solder guy… I would definitely NOT be OK with a bookend RT at #6, though.
No question. Bookend RT is definitely something that we could use. We could address it in the mid rounds, or through free agency. However, using the teams in our division as examples of why its a huge need and why we should draft solder really doesn’t work.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I don’t know that I would say it’s a reason that we should draft Solder- I would just say the other teams in our division give us really good reasons to get a RT somewhere. I don’t think it’s any secret that when you play the Browns, if you want to get to the QB then you blitz St. Clair on the right side. St. Clair isn’t with the team anymore, but I don’t see someone like Pashos being the type of guy that will leave defensive coordinators scratching their heads wondering “How are we ever going to get to the quarterback?” Especially not the Steelers or Ravens, who if I understand correctly blitz a lot.
If Green is there, take him, otherwise take Fairley or Bowers, whichever is still there at #6 (if either).
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Feb 18, 2011 8:44 AM EST up reply actions
Bowers.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 18, 2011 9:00 AM EST up reply actions
Not a one year wonder with a bum knee.
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is. -- Yogi Berra
by JustPlainBrowns on Feb 18, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
Green or Peterson.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 18, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Actually scratch that — you said “any player” so I’ll take Aaron Rodgers.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 18, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i said, “any player in the draft”. you lose.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 18, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
The Gut has spoken.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 19, 2011 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
more Green
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is. -- Yogi Berra
by JustPlainBrowns on Feb 28, 2011 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
Peterson
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 27, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
my offseason wishlist if a FA is around:
1) Acquire RT Ryan Harris from DEN for a 4th RD DC with a conditional pick in 2012: That side of the OL is now set
2) Best available DL with the 1st RD pick. I liked Dareus until he i found out he was a 1 year starter & i think one of the NC guys are also
3) the WR from pitt with the 2nd RD DC
4) best available LB with the 3rd RD DC
5) the nebraska kicker to replace dawson with the 5th
Maybe we can trade Delholmme for Harris. They need somebody to be their third QB since Quinn will be out of the league next year.
We can’t trade Jake until Colt finds someone else to carpool to practice.
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is. -- Yogi Berra
by JustPlainBrowns on Feb 22, 2011 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
Especially if there’s a lockout and Colt doesn’t get paid yet for his 2nd year and has to sell his pickup. He’s probably tapped out after using his 1st year’s salary paying off his parents house, the new truck for his uncle, the wedding expenses (and the 5 carat diamond).
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Feb 23, 2011 8:30 AM EST up reply actions
I like this sequence; solve RT through FA; DE in the first, WR in the second.
My first feeling was we should go back to DL (DT) in the third though, depends a little on whether we do go for Stroud & also how Tuba (and maybe Schaefering) look as 4-3 DTs.
But then I’m a sentimental guy and I’d love to have one of the mathews clan back at LB.
Talking of the Mathews clan I didn’t see Clay II’s brother Bruce mentioned anywhere. As I recall he was one of the better OTs of his day (at Houson, next to Munchak?) and went to a few probowls. So there’s definitely some football genes in there.
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by LondonBrown on Feb 23, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
went to a few probowls
bruce is in the hall of fame
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 23, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Just my Britishness coming out. Joe Thomas is quite good too.
;-)
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by LondonBrown on Feb 23, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
i hope that we get a good defense lineman, and continue to bolster the defense side of the ball, i think/hope that the offense side will continue to improve around our more than decent offensive line and our young quarterback and hardestry and hillis, but that is just a thought.
www.chicagobrownsbackers.com/home.htm
also, i have read this blog for a better part of two years, just decided to sign up and start commenting, woot chicago browns fans!
www.chicagobrownsbackers.com/home.htm
what about trading down? I hear speculation that NE might be interested in moving up with their two first rounders. I don’t know if I believe that, but if that option was on the table would you take their two picks (I think 17 and 28) for 6?
I probably would. Hope julio falls to us and then also take pouncey or another G/T at the end of the first.
I would probably ask for a lower round pick too. Assuming there will be a rookie cap next year, the value of the top ten picks goes way up.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 19, 2011 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
That is surprising. I always associate NE with moving down.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 20, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
The really well run teams always seem to do that, but once in a while they home in on someone they want to build around like a guided missile.
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but who would it be this year?
just doesn’t seem terribly realistic, particularly since they can get some capable guys with their two first rounders.
by discoinferno083 on Feb 23, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
Rec the main post to keep it on the front page.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
If a new CBA isn’t worked out before the draft, then free agency is completely up in the air. Based on this, I have to believe that draft strategies will have to change somewhat.
Teams will have to focus more on need than “best player available”. By far, the biggest need for the Browns is the D Line. That has to be the focus at #6.
by BROWNSLIFTLOMBARDI on Feb 21, 2011 7:03 AM EST reply actions
Here’s something I’ve been wondering about. Suppose (god-forbid) the CBA doesn’t get worked out and there’s no football this year. Does the drafting order for next year (2012) remain the same as that of the 2011 draft?
and 2013, 2014…?
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is. -- Yogi Berra
by JustPlainBrowns on Feb 22, 2011 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
i’ve been asking this too.
no one really has an answer.
by discoinferno083 on Feb 23, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
w/o a cba i don’t think there is a 2012 draft
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 23, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
Correct, but what happens if the reach an agreement sometime next winter or even in March or early April? My guess is at that point the procedure for the draft would be outlined in the new CBA.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 23, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
don banks has the browns taking marcel dareus in his latest mock draft on cnnsi.
interesting, as peterson, prince, and quinn are all still on the board (but aj and bowers are gone). i was very surprised to see vonn miller go in the top-5, but i may not know anything.
I don’t want Prince.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 23, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
I would take The Artist Formerly Known As
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 23, 2011 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
But that cat can ball.
Your friendly neighborhood Mangini apologist.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 28, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
On Da’Quan Bowers, something that really stands out to me on tape is that the guy doesn’t get off the ball well. He doesn’t have an explosive first step that you seen in an Orakpo or Suggs. He is really slow off the ball.
I have always been in the Quinn>Bowers camp, and it only gets stronger watching tape. I think Bowers will be good against the run, but I don’t think he is a 10 sack a year guy. I can’t understand why people think he is the next Peppers.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 27, 2011 8:08 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I agree, I think Quinn is quicker than Bowers. The biggest concern I would have about drafting him is character issues. I’m not sure he’d play at his full potential for anything other than a big-market team. If we do draft him, I guess I’ll just have to trust in Holmgren’s assessment of the kids character.
It’s just my opinion. I’m no Mel Kiper.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 28, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
That’s a good thing.
If you haven't watched Inception, do it now. Right now.
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 1, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Also, the Browns met with USC’s Tackle Tyron Smith. I still believe that he makes it into the top 10, hopefully not with us though.
John Clay lost 30-40 pounds to get to 230. No way in hell is he a NFL RB.
definitely. smith had a great combine whereas clay was awful. the guy lost weight and still struggled to run a 4.8 40. He was also slow to get going which makes you truly question how much acceleration he has. He also looked bad in drills, not cutting well.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
is this the guy from UMU w/ the great name?
by DontCallMeJoey on Mar 1, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
Indeed. Our receivers have great names. Pierre Garcon and Cecil Shorts III.
If you haven't watched Inception, do it now. Right now.
by SpecialBrownie on Mar 1, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
I know it’s been discussed elsewhere, but it really does sound like Carson Palmer is dead set on not playing for Cincinatti. Apparently, he has said that “he’ll never set foot in Paul Brown stadium again.” If this is the case, then does A.J. Green make sense for them? Our D-line will likely be pretty bad next season, but I don’t know that I would be happy with passing on Green at 6.
"There is a small, but important difference between peeing in the pool and peeing into the pool." - Demitri Martin
I hope and pray that Mike Brown sticks it up Carson’s ass.
Go retire Carson.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 1, 2011 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
Likewise. Never thought much of Carson myself.
"There is a small, but important difference between peeing in the pool and peeing into the pool." - Demitri Martin
After his Anti-Ohio rant, dude can go eff himself.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 1, 2011 11:33 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I have not heard about this. What did he say?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Mar 2, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
NFL network kept bringing up this point with the Panthers,Bengals,Bills,Cards,49ers etc.
They were talking about the Panthers and if they are sold on Clausen as the future or do they look at a QB, as well as the Bengals with Palmer crap.
And if the Bills are convinced Fitzpatrick is the guy.
Not to mention the Broncos, and Cards, and 49ers..
I am curious to see if one or 2 ahead of us takes Cam or one of the other qb’s..
This is one of the stranger drafts I have seen. Usually it is pretty locked up on the first few picks. But this one could go any direction…
Hard to imagine the Panthers are sold on Clausen. I would also think that anything the media is hearing out of Carolina would have to be assumed as pure smoke screen. I’d bet money they take a QB in round 1.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Mar 2, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Question: I know there’s Patrick Peterson and Prince Amukamara that are considered top tier CBs, but who are the prospects after them? I haven’t heard of anyone else other than the usual names.
Jimmy Smith. He is big and fast and shows good coverage skills. however, he is a major headcase, has off the field issues, and is extremely arrogant supposedly (you need some arrogance/self-confidence however).
Brandon Harris: Reminds me a bit of haden. Undersized, underrated speed, solidly built with good ball skills.
Aaron Williams: a CB/FS type. Solidly built (6’ 204), decent speed, good ball skills but inconsistent.
Ras I Dowling: very athletic, 4.4 flat speed, good size, a bit inconsistent and has lapses in concentration; good ball skills. The rest of the guys are late 2nd/early 3rd round guys I don’t know much about.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
As much as I like Williams, the dude completely dropped off this year. How could he have 0 interceptions? Instead of improving he disappeared. I’d rather not take that chance.
I pass on Jimmy Smith. Two alcohol charges and a positive drug test.
Adding in millions of dollars probably isn’t going to make those kind of issues disappear.
I strongly buy Brandon Harris.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 2, 2011 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
I am with you. I worry about smith. Plus, he only admitted to one in the interview supposedly. I also remember him having an incredibly asinine comment though I forget what it is.
I like harris too. the guy is a gamer.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
This thread will be falling off the top of the FanPosts soon, so even though we haven’t reached the comment threshold, I’ll be throwing a new draft thread up soon.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
As compared to last year, this draft thread sucks.
If you haven't watched Inception, do it now. Right now.
Just checked last years’ posts and they were posted in December and January. When one was posted in February, it didn’t get a ton of comments either. Must be a sign of some people falling out of the football discussion mood once the season/playoffs are over, which is when this thread was posted.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Mar 3, 2011 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
Gotta love the combine. Had Haden torn it up last year we may not have gotten him. If Julio goes first its only because of his combine performance, because almost nobody had him ahead of Green before.
Sadly a lot of NFL teams buy into that kind of thing.
by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 3, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Not so sad if it works out in our favor. I’m not sure at this point whether I’d prefer to see the Browns take Green (if he’s there) or a totally disruptive DL. The arguments for either are pretty good. I’m really hoping that somewhere along the line they can come up with a really good MLB.
I am effing hurdling you and you can't stop me.
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