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The Cleveland Browns Draft Phil Taylor: What does it mean for our defensive scheme?

There is one thing that really jumps out at you when you are looking at Phil Taylor, and that's obviously his size. Taylor wasn't rated highly on draft boards (26th on ESPN's) because of his outstanding quickness, he was rated that highly because of that size.

Taylor is huge, a good athlete for his size, and he's a nightmare for the OL in the running game. So where does he fit in our defense? And what does this pick mean for our defense? Take a look below the jump for my hypotheses.

Star-divide

Possible scenarios for the Cleveland Browns 2011 Defense:

 

1. We will run a 4-3 in the style similar to Dick Jauron's Tampa-2 a la his coaching stint with the Buffalo Bills, and Athya Rubin is on his way out of a starting role

Jauron previously ran a "Tampa-2" in Buffalo, a defense which requires 3 key players to be successful:

  • A disruptively quick, penetrating 3 technique (think Warren Sapp) who can rush the passer from the DT position
  • A great pass rushing DE. Between this guy and the 3-tech, the Tampa-2 wants to be able to get pressure on the QB with 4 defensive linemen
  • A smart, athletic MLB

Both Ahtyba Rubin and Phil Taylor are best in the 1-technique role in this defense. Neither is a quick, penetrating 3-tech. Because of this, I believe that if we played a "Tampa-2," Rubin would be on his way out of the starting lineup or off of the team. Considering many believe that Rubin is a young, talented player I do not think this scenario is ideal.

 

2. We will run a 3-4, where both Rubin and Taylor can play at the same time.

A 3-4 uses big, two-gapping linemen. In both Romeo and Mangini's defenses, we saw two linemen over 330lbs on the field together a solid % of the time.

I wouldn't be entirely happy with this scenario, either. Don't get me wrong, I love a good 3-4 defense.

But coaches always run what they know for a reason--especially in the NFL. When opposing coaches are pulling all-nighters looking for ways to attack what you do, you have to know your scheme inside out. You have to how people will attack you and what adjustments to make. Then you have to know the adjustments to the adjustments. And you have to know all of this well before gameday--if not before the season.

Would Jauron be able to deviate from his previous experiences as a head coach, learn a 3-4 defense to that kind of depth, and trust himself on gameday? The thought doesn't exactly comfort me.

 

3. We will run a 4-3, but not a true Tampa-2, and we'll utilize both Rubin and Taylor at the same time.

This is my favorite scenario.

  • The first rule of winning in the AFC North is you must stop the run. The second rule of winning in the AFC North is you must stop the run.
  • Jauron has some experience running this type of defense with the Chicago Bears. He used Ted Washington (6'14", weight unknown) and Keith Traylor (6'2", 340) at the same time. 
  • This type of defense has been successful for other defenses in the history of the NFL, as Sam Adams and Tony Siragusa were used in a similar fashion for those f*&^@ that stole our team the Baltimore Ravens in 2000.
  • The "two NT" route would involve either aligning both at 2-techniques right over the OG and leaving the Center uncovered, or aligning them at the usual 1- and 3-technique pair. Either way, the goal would be to tie up interior linemen, clog the middle from B gap to B gap with just two players, and get speed and athleticism at other positions to flow to the ball.
  • I like this strategy because it allows us to play a 4-3 that Jauron is comfortable with, yet would create the possibility of bringing pressure from any- and everywhere. With bigger interior players, we could afford less run stopping/more pass rushing everywhere else. We could drop DEs into coverage and rush LBs. We could rush all of them. We could drop all of them. We could continue to bring the secondary on blitzes. If we do it right, it could be awesome.

Here is a clip of the two monster Chicago DTs and how they functioned against double teams in 2002:


 
In the above video, look at how little two OL are able to drive the DTs backward on the runs. Schematically, an offense will count a double-team as a slam dunk at the point of attack. When you can play two monster DTs like this, the double-teams don't move the defense, and they turn into a big clog right where the offense wants to go.

Huge h/t to Brophy (who writes a phenomenal blog) for the video.

 

Picking a nose tackle is never flashy, but smart teams and coaches build a defense inside-out for a reason. A great nose can mean everything to a defense.

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We are going to be seeing a lot of 3rd and 9 next season. BOOM!

by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 29, 2011 1:18 AM EDT reply actions  

Ha!

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Apr 29, 2011 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Totally agreed on the last scenario being the best. Hadn’t really entered my head that we’d try anything else actually. Work with what you got, right? And what we got, apparently, is meat.

Moisture is the essence of wetness.

by troy145 on Apr 29, 2011 1:22 AM EDT reply actions  

The Chicago and the team that was stolen were exactly what came to my mind when they made this pick – I love that style of D. I also thought of the 85 Bears who had William Perry and Dan Hampton. Hampton wasn’t that big, but they basically had the same idea – clog the middle and let the LBs move freely.

by HenryDawg on Apr 29, 2011 1:24 AM EDT reply actions  

Those 85 Bears used the 46 defense, which uses 3 players to do essentially the same thing.

We might only need 2.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Apr 29, 2011 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

The “two NT” route would involve either aligning both at 2-techniques right over the OG and leaving the Center uncovered, or aligning them at the usual 1- and 3-technique pair.

I like the idea of using both of them as 2-techniques. The Browns would be one of the few (only?) teams to use this strategy as their base, and it might be a nice way of exploiting a market inefficiency. The NFL is locked into this dichotomous 3-4 vs. 4-3 divide right now, and by introducing gradations to the 4-3 formula, the Browns can open themselves up to a wider range of possible players.

I also have this vague hope that Dick Jauron can be our Dick LeBeau, reintroducing old defensive fads in a modern context and leading the wave on the next defensive innovation in the NFL. That’s just a vague hope, though.

by Tyler T. on Apr 29, 2011 1:40 AM EDT reply actions  

We can dream, that’s what April is for.

Do you think they would use Gocong in the middle in the 2-tech defense (“4-3 even”, perhaps?) as a physical guy who could handle the center? Or just don’t worry about a C releasing immediately to the second level and count on defending a run behind him with our DTs?

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Apr 29, 2011 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Offhand, do you remember who the Mike was for those Chicago teams? Baltimore had Ray Lewis, and we probably won’t be able to find another one of him this season.

by Tyler T. on Apr 29, 2011 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Unfortunately, I think that was Urlacher in those clips. He probably won’t be playing for us this year either. Also, Briggs was pretty good.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Apr 29, 2011 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

that was my concern exactly

now that we have the brick wall of a d-line, we need to find some athletic and intelligent linebackers. my heart goes out to casey matthews, but i’m just not sure if he has what we need.

If we don't resign Phil Dawson until he retires from the league I'm going to cry like a little sissy boy.

by Brownsbacker488 on Apr 29, 2011 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Taking a quick look at the MLB class for next year is very exciting and we have two # 1’s.

Manti Te’o Notre Dame (top 15 pick)
Vontaze Burflict -Arizona St. (top 15 pick)
Dont’a Hightower
Alabama (more of a 3-4 prospect due to size/strength)
Tank Carder- TCU (round 2)

Next year’s class is very deep with MLB’s. Give Gocong his chance this year to see how he does. However, putting an athlete like Burflict or Te’o behind Rubin and Taylor has the potential to be great.

by Haden Dawg on Apr 29, 2011 2:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure why the lines are there…..please ignore them.

by Haden Dawg on Apr 29, 2011 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

When you put a dash on either side of something it does a strike through.
example

Evil wins again, but Truth prevails where Good fails.

by North Coast Flea on Apr 29, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I liked what gocong brought to the table and he can be interesting either at the SLB spot or the mlb shooting the gaps and taking on the lineman sometimes. a healthy DQ is a good LB too. We just need at least 1 more and possibly 1-2 more for depth/insurance.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Apr 29, 2011 4:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think Akeem Ayers would be an excellent 5-technique on the weakside in this 4-3. If the Browns draft him, Brook Reed, or Justin Houston, it would be a signal that this double 2-tech alignment is the direction they’re going in.

by Tyler T. on Apr 29, 2011 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am really high on Ayers.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Apr 29, 2011 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ayers would be a great pick.

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Apr 29, 2011 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

wow. REC.

Dawgs by Nature -- where Mike Holmgren, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Apr 29, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

don banks has us going justin houston at 37 and cobb (wr, kentucky) at 59 … although hankerson is still on the board at 59, and i have a hard time seeing the browns go for a 5’10" wr at 59

by DontCallMeJoey on Apr 29, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I could definitely live with Houston.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Apr 29, 2011 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Cobb was 6’0’’, he would be a first rounder. He has speed, athleticism, solid hands, production, intangibles.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Apr 29, 2011 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thinking this through a bit more, if the Browns are going in this direction, then they might actually need another heavy defensive tackle. Rubin and Taylor snaps will be somewhat limited by their conditioning, and someone at a similar size will need to substitute for them. Could Stephen Paea still be a possibility at 37?

by Tyler T. on Apr 29, 2011 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am high on Paea, but that feels like too many resources in DTs for me.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Apr 29, 2011 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think we could find somebody like that in FA when the time comes.

by StuckInPa on Apr 29, 2011 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

or maybe they only play Rubin and Taylor together for two downs and then bring in a mitchell/Shafering to play the 3 tech on the 3rd down (this is if we run a 1/3 tech scheme). Rubin and Taylor both are nice pass rushers for NTs, but you wanna get the guys off the field some. I dunno if they will do this, but it seems like a logical strategy

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Apr 29, 2011 4:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

I also have this vague hope that Dick Jauron can be our Dick LeBeau

I’ve got to be honest, that sounds like a pipe dream at best. I’ll be skeptical until Dick proves me wrong, I certainly hope he does.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Apr 29, 2011 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

I also have this vague hope that Dick Jauron can be our Dick LeBeau

i share your hope … i expect to be disappointed…

by DontCallMeJoey on Apr 29, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Same and same.

Evil wins again, but Truth prevails where Good fails.

by North Coast Flea on Apr 29, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ted Washington is 6’14"?? as in 7’2"? damnnnnn thats a huge duude

by Manoovi on Apr 29, 2011 1:44 AM EDT reply actions  

Why would you call someone 6’ 14"?

If you haven't watched Inception, do it now. Right now.

by SpecialBrownie on Apr 29, 2011 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

thats what rufio typed 6’14"

"buuuuuuuh!"--- Mooncamping

by Vezoma on Apr 29, 2011 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was exaggerating in an attempt at a joke. “Weight unknown” always seemed to be what was listed along with comic book, cartoon, or video game characters who were too huge to measure. I thought 6’14" would make it clear that I was joking because it isn’t a real height.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Apr 29, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought either that, or you meant 6’4’’ and accidentally added the 1.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Apr 29, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

You should have put down that he was also from Parts Unknown.

Evil wins again, but Truth prevails where Good fails.

by North Coast Flea on Apr 29, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I saw that too.

Evil wins again, but Truth prevails where Good fails.

by North Coast Flea on Apr 29, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just read a piece about his feet. Seems he dropped down in the draft due to concerns about bones in his feet that are growing together. This condition is not operable but becomes a pain tolerance issue that he just has to live with until he can’t stand it. I don’t mean to be too negative but this sounds kind of serious. This is our first pick and you want your first pick to be a pretty sure winner. The Bowers injury does not seem this bad.

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Apr 29, 2011 1:58 AM EDT reply actions  

The Bowers injury seems worse, doesn’t it? At this point, you have to think Bowers is less of a degenerative risk and more of an immediate one. If the only issue was whether he’d be able to play past five or six seasons in the league, don’t you think a team would have jumped on him at the end of the first round?

Reading the signs, it appears that Bowers may have issues that will affect his play while he’s on that first contract.

by Tyler T. on Apr 29, 2011 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

i understand your concern

but i don’t think it will be THAT big of a problem. at least not anytime soon. something like that won’t likely develop into anything serious for another few years if he hasn’t had any problems with it as of yet (and with these labor issues we could end up having him for only 4 years anyway).

taylor improved each year he played in college so it’s not as though he felt discomfort from the bones and slowed down on the field. although i read it’s not something surgery can fix, i’m sure there are ways to ease the pain. maybe even some basic conditioning could help (ie. like certain types of stretches or massages.)

in any case, i trust heckerts decision that he knew this going in and decided it wasn’t anything major. i could be completely wrong but i just don’t see it.

If we don't resign Phil Dawson until he retires from the league I'm going to cry like a little sissy boy.

by Brownsbacker488 on Apr 29, 2011 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree, what is the life of a large DT/NT? 5 years maybe?
One publication says he works best in a rotation, conditioning?

"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty

by Red-Right-88 on Apr 29, 2011 7:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ask Ted Washington…

This Space available for Rent!!!

by LondonBrown on Apr 29, 2011 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

A good NT/DT often will play into his mid to late 30’s. Shaun Rogers likely has a couple of contracts still ahead of him.

If Fat Fairley is out of the league in 5 years, he’s a bust.

Dawgs by Nature -- where Mike Holmgren, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Apr 29, 2011 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Or Shaun Rogers.

Evil wins again, but Truth prevails where Good fails.

by North Coast Flea on Apr 29, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Typically they can play for a very long time.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Apr 29, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bowers was a top 5 prospect that still hasn’t been selected. Don’t you think that would be the bigger injury concern if every single NFL team passed on him?

by Roger Dorn on Apr 29, 2011 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes. THIS is a good point. The fact that all teams passed on a guy that was ranked the #1 pick on many boards a few months ago is VERY significant.
ALSO… it was reported that the thing about Taylor’s feet was a rumor and that it checked out negative on the MRI. I feel a lot better about this now.

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Apr 29, 2011 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great story by the way. Really shows the possibilities.

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Apr 29, 2011 1:59 AM EDT reply actions  

Thanks!

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Apr 29, 2011 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

I like it!

We will clog up the Middle!

by Mike Mikovich on Apr 29, 2011 3:10 AM EDT reply actions  

I like the video. There were a couple plays right in the middle starting with the one in Tampa (and one or two at the end) that showed what can be great about the last kind of defense. If you have these guys eat up space, you can send in LBs sometimes unblocked. the play against TB shows that, the mlb just explodes in there.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Apr 29, 2011 4:18 AM EDT reply actions  

So, rufio, you like the pick?

by emily522 on Apr 29, 2011 5:23 AM EDT reply actions  

I do. Especially considering the trade down, it’s a very good pick.

We needed a DT anyway, but we were all looking for a smaller, quicker guy to be an interior pass rusher. I think many were surprised by this choice because Taylor isn’t that kind of DT, and we are all feeling positively toward Rubin.

We went with the best DT in this class of a different playing style (i.e. not the best overall, but the best NT type guy), but if we do it right on the field, he’ll play a long time for us and he’ll be a big (pun intended) part of our defense. I guess I should wait until I see what we try to do on the field, but for now I am feeling good about this.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Apr 29, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good writeup. Still not sure about the pick. But, I’m trying my best to like it. Your hypothesis helps.

And, I’m not going to ask what the 3rd rule of winning in the AFC North is.

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is. -- Yogi Berra

by JustPlainBrowns on Apr 29, 2011 7:54 AM EDT reply actions  

Making rape and murder jokes about Steelers and Ravens.

If you haven't watched Inception, do it now. Right now.

by SpecialBrownie on Apr 29, 2011 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

You mean being a rapist or murderer?

Evil wins again, but Truth prevails where Good fails.

by North Coast Flea on Apr 29, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

You must be able to run the ball.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Apr 29, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nope. You must be able to pass the ball actually. That’s the difference between us and the teams that have been winning the division the last several years.

2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion

by TheDriveStillHurts on Apr 29, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tell me those teams can’t pick up 3rd and 1 on the ground.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Apr 29, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol right

I met a fairy today that granted me one wish. "I want to live forever," I said. "Sorry" said the fairy, "I'm not allowed to grant wishes like that!"
"Fine" I said, "I want to die after the Browns win the Super Bowl !"
"You crafty bastard," said the fairy.

by The Licensed Pessimist on Apr 29, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I knew you were going to say that.

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is. -- Yogi Berra

by JustPlainBrowns on Apr 29, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d imagine this same discussion is going on over on the Lions board, only with more enthusiasm. Those two are going to be brutal… especially since I don’t think Hillis is going to have a chance to put them in their place this year.

by 3QMeltdown on Apr 29, 2011 8:03 AM EDT reply actions  

A guy brought up the possibility of Detroit making that pick while they were on the clock and, bingo! I think their defense just took a huge step forward.

I am effing hurdling you and you can't stop me.

by JustBob on Apr 29, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like the new avatar there, moony.

Stuckey watch: 31/30. Haha! I AM SET YOU UP THE BOMB!!!!

by BrownDawg1409 on Apr 29, 2011 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Apart from Chicago it does look like Gibbs first go with the skins- The Richie Petitbon coached D. The secondaries could even be considered similar. But washington has Mann & Manley (both pro bowlers) at end wheras we have zilch, and maybe a tad more at LB.

Its the absence of anything at end that scares me.

This Space available for Rent!!!

by LondonBrown on Apr 29, 2011 8:10 AM EDT reply actions  

On pick at a time. And we can be active in free agency sometime, maybe.

I think this pick is good for Bernard’s chances at DE. He isn’t a run-stopping force, but he won’t need to be. He’d need to be quick, athletic, and a pass rusher, which he is.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Apr 29, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

that was my thought too. I remember way back, Bernie talked about going after Taylor in the early 2nd which intrigued me and it seemed like it would really help benard.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Apr 29, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is now so obvious what happened. Heckert targeted AJ and Patrick – and when they were not there – he made a huge deal. With those 2 gone he knew he was going to go DL. There were so many risks in that group he feels if I gotta take risk – I will get an arseload of picks to offset it – smart. I have seen Taylor play and thought he was really quick for his size. He will be more than ok at DT in a 4-3. True, disruptive DTs like SUH or Rodgers are rarer than franchise QBs.

Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen

by realmccoy on Apr 29, 2011 8:28 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Heckert targeted AJ and Patrick

After the events that happened last night, It’s definitely not that obvious.

He more likely chose Dareus and popped out when he went early.

If you haven't watched Inception, do it now. Right now.

by SpecialBrownie on Apr 29, 2011 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Could have targetted all 3, who knows, the trade down was an act of genius.

This Space available for Rent!!!

by LondonBrown on Apr 29, 2011 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Peter King confirmed close to what you are saying this morning. He says the Browns were going to do the deal unless AJ Green was there they might have reconsidered.

by Roger Dorn on Apr 29, 2011 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

At first i was shocked, but after sleeping on it, WOW! I like that we have more picks for a team with alot of holes. That’s what we need, more young talent. Much like when Bill Walsh was building the 49ers. HMMMM…

by athensdawg on Apr 29, 2011 8:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Who’s next, in everyone’s opinion?

by athensdawg on Apr 29, 2011 8:41 AM EDT reply actions  

Certainly a surprise pick. He would have been my last guess for someone we were targeting. Good move though as we are in a division where you have to stuff the run. If he can keep his weight manageable he will be a great addition to our line.

"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden

by Kimble_79 on Apr 29, 2011 9:12 AM EDT reply actions  

Taylor said in the call yesterday that the foot condition was a fabrication by a team hoping he would fall so that they could select him.

by Roger Dorn on Apr 29, 2011 9:27 AM EDT reply actions  

Smokescreen!

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Apr 29, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Filling Needs?

I don’t care in which Round, or with what pick, but if the Browns don’t come out of this draft with some serious help for a defensive secondary that looked downright hapless to me last season, then it’s a failure in my eyes.

by Brian44 on Apr 29, 2011 9:27 AM EDT reply actions  

I thought the secondary played pretty well last year once Eric Wright was out of the picture?

"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden

by Kimble_79 on Apr 29, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yea I was pleased with the secondary.

by Roger Dorn on Apr 29, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

We have two great young players there, a pretty good veteran, and a guy in Eric Wright who is one bad season away from being a very, very good corner.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Apr 29, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

ditto

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Apr 29, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

There’s a lot of that going on — if you use a ? mark for every comment like that you see, your keyboard will break.

2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion

by TheDriveStillHurts on Apr 29, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn’t mind a FS in round 2 but our CBs are fine. For now, Sheldon Brown is solid at #2 and wright is a solid #3. I would almost rather us trade back into the 3rd and maybe give up our 5th and 6th so we can get Quinton Carter (who may be a reach right now in round 2).

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Apr 29, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

i still think we could use another CB, but it doesn’t have to be real soon.

by DontCallMeJoey on Apr 29, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree. We don’t know the future of Wright (FA) and Brown (Age). We have 3 solid CBs and a 4th wouldn’t hurt who could develop for when he needs to replace one of those guys, just not a pressing need.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Apr 29, 2011 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

With the third option having Rubin and Taylor as space fillers, would we maybe draft a quick linebacker in later rounds?

by youngergenerationbrownsfan on Apr 29, 2011 9:53 AM EDT reply actions  

I think if the right guy was there we’d have to think about it. Even if everything goes well for us, Fujita isn’t going to be around forever and Jackson has had to years cut short due to injury in a row. Those are our two best LBs. We’ll have to be looking.

I like a lot of the later round LBs in this draft; they might not ever become NFL studs, but I think there are some solid players out there.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Apr 29, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

we are in desperate need of youth and depth at LB, so you’re right that if the right guy is there we have to think about it. the problem is, as you point out, that there aren’t many “right” guys.

by DontCallMeJoey on Apr 29, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I obviously dont run the team so idk what theyre goin to do but… I’m nearly 99% sure theyre going w/ option 3. Look at the many 4-3 teams that run that setup: Vikes (kevin williams and pat williams, Bills (few yrs ago w/ jon henderson and marcus stroud), Lions (are about to do it w/ Suh n Fairley), Lions (back wen they had Rogers in their 4-3). The 4-3 at its best has 2 mammoth DTs in the middle, 2 athletic edge rushing DEs, and 3 quick sure tackiling LBs who can also cover.

by Stan Wizz - Go Browns on Apr 29, 2011 10:01 AM EDT reply actions  

The Texas homer in me is really high on Aaron Williams if he’s available. He’s a first round quality corner/free safety hybrid who had great ball handling skills at Texas. Very willing to be physical, but also very quick and good in coverage.

One of the big knocks on the kid was poor special teams play — he muffed a lot of punts. That makes his biggest weakness a non-issue to the Browns, who have Cribbs and Haden already to return.

by scrumm on Apr 29, 2011 10:41 AM EDT reply actions  

Why do some feel like Williams hasn’t lived up to his potential?

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Apr 29, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

He muffed some big time punts and kickoff returns in games. It was embarrassing last season.

Also, Texas’ defense last season struggled more than the year prior. Our cornerback play was still decent, but teams ran over us consistently.

He was pretty much a shutdown corner in ‘09 but gave up a couple of big plays last season. For a guy with his athleticism and character, I think he can develop into a pro bowler. People talk about AJ Green’s highlight reel catching ability — Williams is the same way. His body control up in the air is really, really good. Texas’ secondary in 2010 took a huge step back when Earl Thomas left, but Duane Akina has coached in college some of the better DBs in the NFL today.

Did you see the Mariucci bit with him and Peterson? They air a pretty spectacular interception on a fade route against a 6’3" receiver.. Williams is 5’11 and made a beautiful play.

by scrumm on Apr 29, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I feel like the whole league is going to more and more 3 WR sets and the nickel package is becoming the new base defense. In this situation, the 3-4 and 4-3 become more similar. In the nickel package you can take off any of your front 7 players for a 5th db. With the 3-4 you often take off one of your DLineman and play with two large lineman and 4 LBs. Meanwhile the 4-3 takes off a linebacker and leaves its whole defensive line (or has a pass rush OLB go down and takes off its run stopping DE). in essence the two schemes become similar shaped because you have two big tackles tasked with stopping the run and two outside pass rushers (4-3 DEs or 3-4 OLBs) and then you have two linebackers. I think this move is really designed to make Rubin and Taylor your two big DLs plugging gaps and trying to collapse the pocket in nickel situations.

"Smokescreen."

by jaws. on Apr 29, 2011 10:52 PM EDT reply actions  

I like that idea a lot, and it makes a lot of sense to me. Well done, sir.

by Legoman0721 on Apr 29, 2011 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I believe in a 3-4 they would take away a LB, not a DL. On Madden they had a 4-2-5 a 3-3-5 and a 1-5-5.

Evil wins again, but Truth prevails where Good fails.

by North Coast Flea on Apr 30, 2011 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

different playbooks have different looks even in madden. Look at the patriots playbook or the eric mangini browns playbook they have the 2-4-5 which I think is pretty common. The browns played it quite a bit last year (also belicheck likes to mix in a 1 down lineman and 0 down lineman looks)

"Smokescreen."

by jaws. on Apr 30, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

also the 4-2-5 you are saying is similar shaped to a “2-4-5”, in real life the guys going down on the ends are just your rush OLBs and then you have your two big space eaters in the middle… that is kind of what i am saying.

"Smokescreen."

by jaws. on Apr 30, 2011 12:01 PM EDT reply actions  

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