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The Sunday Five: NFL Going Out of Business?

"The Sunday Five" is a loosely-titled piece where I talk about five NFL- or Browns-related topics related to this past week. In today's late-night edition, I take a look at the results of a few polls we ran this past week and a report from Pro Football Talk about the current labor situation.

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What is a "Complete Shutdown of the NFL?" If you didn't hear, this rumor was brought up by PFT's Mike Florio based on rumblings he claims to have heard:

We’re hearing initial rumblings pointing to the possibility that a loss by the league at the appellate level will prompt the owners to completely shut down all business operations until the players agree to a new labor deal.  The thinking is that, if the owners cease all operations, the NFL would not be violating the court order because there would be no lockout.  Instead, the league essentially would be going out of business — something for which the NFL repeatedly chided the union in the weeks and months preceding decertification of the NFLPA.

Fans around the league seem to be fumed about this possibility, but I don't quite understand what different ramifications would come into play if the league went this route. Feel free to chime in if you have an idea.

Star-divide

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Mary Kay Cabot of the Plain Dealer had an interview in Sunday's paper with Greg Little's receiving coach from college. It was a good read, so be sure to check it out. Having been out of football for over a year, Little is the type of guy who you imagine would be even more so affected by the lockout situation. While other guys might be closer to game speed, who knows where Little will be -- it'll be a wait-and-see type of deal.

Bullet_mediumHere are the results from the first of three polls we recently ran: in a blunt question of would it have been better for the Browns to go with Da'Quan Bowers or Jabaal Sheard with the No. 37 overall pick, 72% of respondents went with Sheard. In the end, I think both players are going to end up with equally sound players. The benefit of Sheard was consistency, and the risk with Bowers was his injury. When you weigh both of those factors together, the positions they were selected at seems about right.

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We kicked off our free agent coverage this past week, which should not have been the case since free agency usually happens in March. Anyway, the results were not favorable for RB Mike Bell, as 93% of respondents indicated they do not think the Browns should attempt to re-sign him. There was really no surprise there, and I wonder what reasons the other 6-7% had for voting to retain Bell. Was my brief Devil's Advocate section really that convincing?

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Although voting is still going on, the early results are much better for FB Lawrence Vickers, who has 87% of respondents saying the Browns should retain him next season despite just having drafted a fullback, Owen Marecic, in the fourth round of the draft. Could the value we place in Vickers be a little overrated at times? Perhaps. I want Vickers to stay, but the writing on the wall (no tender offer, a fourth-round FB, the change to the WCO) don't look promising for his future in Cleveland. Hopefully Baltimore doesn't sign him if they lose Le'Ron McClain.

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NFL would not be violating the court order because there would be no lockout. Instead, the league essentially would be going out of business

And boom goes the dynamite.

From a win-at-all-costs perspective, this seems like the next reasonable step for the league. All my questions regarding this still seemed unanswerable in the last thread.
From a fan’s perspective, screw ’em both, I want football.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on May 9, 2011 12:30 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

a couple months ago, I could find myself defending a specific side and saying that the other side may have been more of the problem. By now, they both can go to hell, I just want some football.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on May 9, 2011 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

i’m almost beginning to reach the point that i’m glad i’ll miss half the NFL season anyway due to joining the Navy. almost….

If we don't resign Phil Dawson until he retires from the league I'm going to cry like a little sissy boy.

by Brownsbacker488 on May 9, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

This.

"buuuuuuuh!"--- Mooncamping

by Vezoma on May 9, 2011 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

imagine it like this: the owners and players are each their own sovereign countries, respectively. the players and owners have been arguing since forever over a border dispute (our wallets). things have calmed down a bit due to a halt of fighting but it looks like the players may get an upperhand. in retaliation, the owners nuke the hell out of themselves to keep the players at bay. when all the dust settles, the residual radioactivity will still be there.

yeah definitely a great idea. in nuking themselves, the owners will also be nuking the land in which they are trying to conquer, thus making it much less reasonable for us to give them any of our damn money.

by pwndabear on May 9, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why not? The same policy worked for Switzerland in WWII.

Evil wins again, but Truth prevails where Good fails.

by North Coast Flea on May 9, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

and look where they are now.

by pwndabear on May 9, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Um… chilling with no wartime destruction caused upon their land taking in huge amounts of American money and making some damn fine chocolate?

Nissan GT - R.

Sexy. Sexy. Sexy.

by SpecialBrownie on May 9, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

With the America’s Cup on their mantle.

I am effing hurdling you and you can't stop me.

by JustBob on May 9, 2011 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

The NFL owners watched the results of the NHL labor strife with eyes wide open. The NHL owners shut down there league for a whole season, which resulted with a new CBA favorable to the owners.

From a business perspective, would shutting down the league for a year (which you don’t have to pay out any money, except for guaranteed) make sense? The majority of players couldn’t afford to live at there current standards, and eventually they would cave in.

 From a fan perspective, you shut down the league, jam a owner favorable CBA down the players throats, and not lower costs on the fans? You would have committed business suicide!!

Regardless, I believe the owners and players are committing business suicide. Both sides make too much money on the fans backs. Either we, the fans, get a break, or these fools are fighting about a pie that will shrink down fast.

"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." - Joe Hayden, Cleveland Browns.

by J. W. on May 9, 2011 3:09 AM EDT reply actions  

and more importantly, the NHL was able to survive and thrive afterwards. Their numbers are up compared to the years directly before the lockout.

This isn’t looking good for us.

"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"

by troy145 on May 9, 2011 3:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

their attendance and revenue numbers were dying anyways and a temporary disappearance couldn’t hurt all that much (not much more to go down at that point). With the NFL, they have had rising revenue for a long time so it could potentially hurt. A lot.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on May 9, 2011 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

say the NFL does shut down for a year and starts back up in 2012 with no difference in cost to fans as far as tickets/tv/merchandise/etc. how many fans would truly boycott the league? i honestly don’t think there will be enough outrage from the fans to scare the owners into walking into a CBA deal they don’t want to sign with the NFLPA. we’re addicted to football. all of us are posting on a Browns fanpage in the offseason of a year where a season of football may not exist. the owners aren’t worried at all about a business suicide and for good reason.

If we don't resign Phil Dawson until he retires from the league I'm going to cry like a little sissy boy.

by Brownsbacker488 on May 9, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

a) the casual fans will actually stop coming. hardcore fans like us will not be as affected

b) there is more than ticket sales. it could cause a decrease in merchandise sales, and easily (and this one seems like the most imminent danger) a decrease in TV viewership, an area where the league truly dominates.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on May 9, 2011 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

All fans are caught by their Dawgnuts in this one and matter little to either side in their actual calculations no matter what the talking heads say to the contrary in public when the cameras are on them.

I still believe the owners are more likely to prevail – not because they are right, but because they simply have a higher pain thresh hold and longer investment horizon to recoup any losses from the lock-out and/or a shortened season. Many players already realize this as their day-to-day expenses and debt continue to mount.

Once Smith plays out all his legal maneuvers in the courts, the Association will re-certify and use whatever leverage they have to hammer out a deal by the end of August.

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is. -- Yogi Berra

by JustPlainBrowns on May 9, 2011 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

there’s a real possibility that ticket sales will drop a bit due to the lock out, but there is no doubt – i repeat, absolutely NO DOUBT – in my mind that even if there’s a shortened schedule that tv ratings will be right on par from last year. in all honesty, i think if there is an extended lockout shortening the season we’ll likely see another tv rating record broken with the start of the season just like last year. sorry if i sound pompous but i know i’m right about this one.

If we don't resign Phil Dawson until he retires from the league I'm going to cry like a little sissy boy.

by Brownsbacker488 on May 10, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

if you think ticket sales will drop then you’re implicitly saying that tv viewership, overall, will drop. when games don’t sell out, they are blacked out on tv in the local area … which is the largest market for those games.

now, if you’re saying we’ll see the highest rated single game of all time this season, well, that’s not really saying much of anything at all.

"I gave in to the monosybillic despotic group imperative demands here" --mooncamping

by DontCallMeJoey on May 11, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Both sides make too much money on the fans backs.

Yeah, it’s really upsetting. Both sides take us for granted.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on May 9, 2011 3:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well lets not act like thats a bad thing. Any pro-sport is driven by the consumer – the fans. The NFL doesn’t just get money handed down from the Gods, they have to first persuade it from the hand of the consumer.

The NFL delivers a product which brings me a lot of happiness, and for that I’m more than happy to hook them up with a few bones. The problem is much more deep seated. The NFL, like any business, will do what it can to generate the greatest profits available. The problem is certain costs have been offset for them or imposed on them, distortions have emerged in the market place and theres a general lack of competition. This doesn’t really have to do much with the lockout so much as just the business in general.

"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"

by troy145 on May 9, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shut it down for a year and I’ll never be back. It’d be college ball for me from here on out. Screw em.

Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi

by burntorangeandbrown on May 9, 2011 8:19 AM EDT reply actions  

The players need to get together with their agents right now, and sign a covenant that they will play 16 games next season, each out of the place they are under contract with, and find appropriate venues to do this. In other words, if I´m Joshua Cribbs, I´m playing for the Cleveland Apes, versus Eli Manning from the New York Dwarfs, on Cleveland High Schools football field one Sunday, and versus Adrian Peterson´s Minnesota Mormons at Minneapolis/St. Paul municipal lot the next weekend. Since they are under contract they will be paid for this activity.

by mooncamping on May 9, 2011 8:53 AM EDT reply actions  

And start selling tickets for the Hyper Bowl at Washington D.C. in January 2012 right now.

by mooncamping on May 9, 2011 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

the UFL is LOVIN this. they’re in prime position to take over the hearts of professional football fans if the NFL shuts down for a year.

If we don't resign Phil Dawson until he retires from the league I'm going to cry like a little sissy boy.

by Brownsbacker488 on May 9, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol NO.

"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"

by troy145 on May 9, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

hey trust me i could care less about the UFL too, but you’re telling me if you’re bored on a sunday afternoon with a year without the NFL you’re not going to be at least mildly interested in watching SOME kind of pro football? i used to watch NFL Europe for cryin out loud!

If we don't resign Phil Dawson until he retires from the league I'm going to cry like a little sissy boy.

by Brownsbacker488 on May 9, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

look how well NFL europe did.

No one will get up for a 6 team league with teams based in Norfolk and Hartford with rosters stacked with kids who couldn’t make it in the bigs. Its just not going to happen. It wont.

"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"

by troy145 on May 9, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

and you’re right, NFL Europe didn’t do that great. it was basically the farm system for the NFL. but part of the reason why it wasn’t popular is because there were virtually NO names in that league as compared to the UFL which has Daunte Culpepper, Josh McCown, Syndric Steptoe, DeDe Dorsey, Kris Griffin, Maurice Clarett, Cato June, Odell Thurman, Reggie Brown, Kevin Shaffer, and others. of course none of these names scream NFL All-Pro status, but are at least recognizable to the point that they could cause at least mild interest in the league. as well as that the games are played here in the USA rather than across the big pond in places none of us likely care about. that too allows us to relate more to the UFL than NFL Europe.

If we don't resign Phil Dawson until he retires from the league I'm going to cry like a little sissy boy.

by Brownsbacker488 on May 9, 2011 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

think about what youre saying dude. People are gonna go watch Josh McCown and Syndric Steptoe? The whole reason they aren’t in theNFL is because no one wanted to watch them.

"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"

by troy145 on May 9, 2011 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

They aren’t in the NFL because they weren’t good enough, and that’s why people don’t want to watch them. Teams didn’t cut them because the fans didn’t like them, that has nothing to do with it.

Resident Tim Couch Apologist.

by Dawg Nuts on May 9, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Players´ worth through scouting cooperatives and sports writers´ concordates is protected. If we had full invitational scrimmages with neutral experts in each NFL´s training camps, we´d have 40 % other players

by mooncamping on May 10, 2011 4:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

So you’re saying Josh McCown and Syndric Steptoe are out of the NFL because their scouting reports weren’t good enough and sports writers didn’t all agree to hype them? Sure.

Resident Tim Couch Apologist.

by Dawg Nuts on May 10, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

It’s a conspiracy, DN!

In X We Trust!

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on May 10, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

This will shake the very foundation of the NFL. How dare Josh McCown be kept down all these years. It had to have been a group of NFL Scouts that plotted the JFK assassination too.

Resident Tim Couch Apologist.

by Dawg Nuts on May 10, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

You know, if I had to face the wrong crowd, I would choose you as my speaker, because I´d know you´d interpret wrong, and leave them blind as to my true intentions.

by mooncamping on May 11, 2011 7:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Telling me I can’t correctly interpret what you’re saying is certainly a compliment. God help me the day I start understanding what you say.

Resident Tim Couch Apologist.

by Dawg Nuts on May 11, 2011 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

I could totally see you in that situation.

Evil wins again, but Truth prevails where Good fails.

by North Coast Flea on May 11, 2011 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

i’m not trying to convince you that the UFL is the next big thing. all i’m suggesting is that with a year without the NFL tv ratings for the UFL are likely to increase due to the similarities to the NFL and one being that it consists of several players that once played in the NFL. i could care less about Culpepper and McCown too, but if i have the option of watching the UFL or no football on a boring sunday afternoon then i’m pretty likely to watch the UFL. i even watch Arena Football from time to time and i hate it in all honesty. the only thing preventing me would be that i’m joining the Navy and won’t likely to have much time to even watch the NFL.

If we don't resign Phil Dawson until he retires from the league I'm going to cry like a little sissy boy.

by Brownsbacker488 on May 10, 2011 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

That would have changed, if the Frankfurt Galaxy had been allowed to beat up on NFL teams.

by mooncamping on May 10, 2011 4:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Every team in the NFL would have destroyed any World League team.

Resident Tim Couch Apologist.

by Dawg Nuts on May 10, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

World League: 90% third rate American athletes and 10% privileged local athletes.

by mooncamping on May 11, 2011 7:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

and 100% terrible football

"I gave in to the monosybillic despotic group imperative demands here" --mooncamping

by DontCallMeJoey on May 11, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

And 0% best of Germany on the Frankfurt Galaxy for instance.

by mooncamping on May 12, 2011 6:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

who is the best german football player of all time?

"I gave in to the monosybillic despotic group imperative demands here" --mooncamping

by DontCallMeJoey on May 12, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

It had to be either Friedrich Nietzsche or John Jerkoff

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is. -- Yogi Berra

by JustPlainBrowns on May 12, 2011 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is his name really Jerkoff?

Resident Tim Couch Apologist.

by Dawg Nuts on May 12, 2011 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

i’m talking about from germany. not of german descent

"I gave in to the monosybillic despotic group imperative demands here" --mooncamping

by DontCallMeJoey on May 13, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

If they have an NFL pedigree these Germans are born in the USA.

by mooncamping on May 14, 2011 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

and that’s not exactly a great case for the germans, to begin with

"I gave in to the monosybillic despotic group imperative demands here" --mooncamping

by DontCallMeJoey on May 13, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

A lot of people watch pro football for the team. I love the Cleveland Browns. If the Cleveland Browns aren’t a part of it, I’m really not interested.

"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"

by troy145 on May 9, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

like i said i’m the same way, but just think of it this way:

the UFL is expanding the league in the number of games played and teams. they’re picking up talent which could still potentially compete as NFL starters but are just becoming a little older or seek more money than that of a NFL back-up. if this shutdown lasts throughout the year what happens to all these rookies that went drafted or undrafted? they haven’t signed any contracts with the NFL so there’s no legalities prohibiting their involvement in another football league such as those veterans already with active NFL contracts. the same will apply to free-agents whose contracts have just ended.

trust me, i already understand the talent will be deluded. but when push comes to shove and all you want is football on a sunday afternoon with nothing else, you might just find yourself watching the UFL in the NFLs absence.

If we don't resign Phil Dawson until he retires from the league I'm going to cry like a little sissy boy.

by Brownsbacker488 on May 9, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

the UFL may see a peak in the value of their product, but it wont be anything serious. At all. I’m pretty sure even the AFL is more popular at this point and has a better foundation to satiate peoples football desires, even if its not in season.

"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"

by troy145 on May 9, 2011 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Both sides are seeming more and more like whiny, spoiled kids that don’t want to share their toys, especially the owners.

Evil wins again, but Truth prevails where Good fails.

by North Coast Flea on May 9, 2011 11:25 AM EDT reply actions  

its all about the money—taking it from us and then squabbling over it like a bunch of pricks in a board room… oh wait.

by pwndabear on May 9, 2011 12:00 PM EDT reply actions  

It is not about money now, it is about egos. Only bad things happen when egos become the principal driver…my ego is bigger than your ego… Case in point, Braylon Edwards is STILL a douche bag whether the league plays or not.

by Nuclear Power on May 9, 2011 2:09 PM EDT reply actions  

If we don’t play this year, I don’t see Little making it. One year off is brutal enough. Two years is too much.

by 24rubikscube on May 9, 2011 3:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Go tell that to Aaron Rodgers. He got about zero playing time until his fourth year in the nfl.

by browns8 on May 9, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

totally different.

"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"

by troy145 on May 9, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

How is it that different? Rodgers sat for three years without playing at game speed.

by browns8 on May 9, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

He had practices and preseason games.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on May 9, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Practice with the second team? Practice where the qb doesn’t get hit? Playing a few quarters in preseason? Saying that little is going to bust with another season off is not a fact.

by browns8 on May 9, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

unless the guy is an idiot as far as his learning abilities go i doubt it will affect him that badly to sit out two seasons. true it will take a lot longer to develop him and get him back in shape. but if he’s smart enough to pick up on the offense and stays in good shape it should only take an extra year or so to prepare him for the NFL.

If we don't resign Phil Dawson until he retires from the league I'm going to cry like a little sissy boy.

by Brownsbacker488 on May 9, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

He could probably go play semi-pro somewhere. Lots of NHL players went and played in different leagues while they were locked out.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on May 9, 2011 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

yep that’s exactly what i was saying above.

If we don't resign Phil Dawson until he retires from the league I'm going to cry like a little sissy boy.

by Brownsbacker488 on May 9, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d hate to see Vickers shift to the AFC/N too.

We should have signed him and traded him for a 7th to stp him playing aganst us

This Space available for Rent!!!

by LondonBrown on May 9, 2011 8:22 PM EDT reply actions  

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