Free Agency List
by Roger Dorn on Jul 25, 2011 8:08 PM EDT
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If I am the Browns, I would make plays for these guys mainly from category 5 which is Unrestricted Free Agents. This list does not include guys who are likely to be cut in the next two days (possibilities include McGahee, Ryan Grant, and a slew of other RBs.) Let me know who else we should be pursuing.
Gabe Watson, DT
Dawan Landry, S
Donte Witner, S
Charles Johnson, DE **
Richard Marshall, CB
Danieal Manning, DB
Jonathan Joseph, CB
Jayme Mitchell, DE
Porkchop, OL
Atari Bigby, S
Ronnie Brown, RB
Ray Edwards, DE
Roman Harper, S
Ahmad Bradshaw, RB
Barry Cofield, DT** (Clevelander)
Matthias Kiwanuka, DE
Steve Smith (Giants), WR
Michael Huff, S
Dmitri Patterson, DT
Malcolm Floyd, WR
Eric Weddle, S**
Aubrayo Franklin, DT
Barrett Ruud, LB
Jacob Ford, DE
** = Free Agents I want the most
This is a fan-created post. Dawgs By Nature assumes no responsibility for the content listed.
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I should add that after reading this, I bet we end up with Quintin Mikell because of Hecky’s Philly connections.
Would be very cool with this.
If Heckert is a fan, then so am I.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jul 25, 2011 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Boo.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Jul 26, 2011 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Lawrence Vickers.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Jul 25, 2011 8:20 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I’d lose sleep over our shitty run game without Vickers lead blocking.
"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert
by Simmsinns on Jul 25, 2011 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You guys realize that Mangini completely underutilized Vickers and we still had a solid running game right? What percentage of snaps did Vickers play?
Vickers sat because St. Clair needed help from Royal. The correct question is ‘How much did not having Vickers as a lead blocker hurt Hillis down the stretch?’ or ‘How much better can our run game be this year with the best fullback in the league and a competent right tackle?’
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Jul 26, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
‘How much did not having Vickers as a lead blocker hurt Hillis down the stretch?’ or ‘How much better can our run game be this year with the best fullback in the league and a competent right tackle?’
Boom.
"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert
I would lose sleep over the best FB in the league.
(If all the nachos are stuck together, it only counts as one nacho.)
by North Coast Flea on Jul 26, 2011 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
This. He’s the best player we have not named Joe Thomas.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Jul 26, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I like Vickers so I hate to enter into this argument, but who says he is the best fullback in the league?
I do. Leron McClain is right there with him though.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Jul 26, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Good question. Is there any statistical evidence to back this up because I’m hearing it an awful lot around these parts
by The Licensed Pessimist on Jul 26, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, the quality of FB play is heavily determined by stats.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Jul 26, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
he may be one of the best FB in the NFL, but let’s not overstate the relevance of the FB position in today’s game.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 26, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you a snake?
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Jul 26, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
that’s a pretty personal question
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 26, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
We should at least see whats out there at RT. Tyson Clabo would be awesome but probably pricey. I don’t know who else is good.
Agree on finding a good RT. I’d like to see McCoy stay vertical.
"... you slay the chicken and you crack the egg ..." - Moon
retaining porkchop would be a good move for the right side of the line.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 25, 2011 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I would love to go after Gaither.
Shore up the RT slot and weaken a division rival.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jul 25, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
i was also thinking Kirk Chambers from Cinci, but i think he’s a bit older. either way, the same idea applies as far as weakening our division. i don’t see either of those players leaving for Cleveland though if they get offers by their current teams.
Yvan Eht Nioj.
by Brownsbacker488 on Jul 25, 2011 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
even though i’ve said in the past that WR is down my list … i wouldn’t mind seeing them take a crack at malcolm floyd. or at least trying to find out what it would take to get him interested.
Floyd is underrated. Played well when he got a chance.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jul 25, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I would break the bank for Charles Johnson.
25 year old proven pass rushers do not come available often.
I agree. If we’re going to break the bank, might as well be with Johnson.
I guess there's only one thing left to do.....win the whole ******* thing. - Major League
by 24rubikscube on Jul 25, 2011 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. We have to spend $30+ million and there’s talent out there / about to be out there . . . I want youthful FAs, not 30 year old down-siders.
S or RB plus RT or DT/DE
"Samir Nagama, Nagama, Na-Not gonna work here anymore anyways!'
by BrownsFanfromthe808 on Jul 25, 2011 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I suppose this my order of interest:
1.) DE/DT 2.) RT 3.) WR 4.) S 5.) CB
I guess there's only one thing left to do.....win the whole ******* thing. - Major League
by 24rubikscube on Jul 25, 2011 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I would break the bank for Johnson, Weddle, Edwards, and possibly mikell
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I’d break the bank on anyone actually willing to come here that’s better than what we currently have under contract, though that’s not asking much at a handful of positions.
"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert
I wouldn’t break the bank on someone who is only an average/above average starter at his position and over 30 (i.e. Santana moss, Sean Locklear, matt light, Jason Babin). I understand what you’re getting at though.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
this is just a ball park assumption. i have no idea what we’ll actually spend on our rookies, but does $10 million sound reasonable? if so, that’d mean we have roughly $20-25 million to spend on FA assuming we cut Delhomme or otherwise make him restructure his contract. with that kind of money we could maybe get 2-3 bigger named guys and maybe a handful of others. i’m probably really off base here, but that’s just my gut instinct. am i wrong?
Yvan Eht Nioj.
by Brownsbacker488 on Jul 25, 2011 10:37 PM EDT reply actions
I’m not going to lie, I’m going to be checking my iPod all day following FA. I’m pretty pumped.
I guess there's only one thing left to do.....win the whole ******* thing. - Major League
no reason to stay humble, buddy. we’re all in that boat. i’m just upset i have to work the rest of the week…
Yvan Eht Nioj.
by Brownsbacker488 on Jul 25, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
ESPN is going to be on 24/7 in my den.
Alcohol abuse and Cleveland sports fans: hand-in-hand since 1955.
by Clevsports on Jul 25, 2011 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m sorry.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jul 26, 2011 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
yeah, that’s brutal. did this guy lose a bet?
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 26, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
They’re the best reporters in the business. They have some terrible editorializing.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jul 28, 2011 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions
They get news out fast and are generally accurate. When they start trying to analyze things they suck.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jul 28, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I would rather have a UDFA at RB.
Ronnie Brown will cost money, I would rather spend it in the trenches.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jul 25, 2011 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Derrick Locke as an UDFA
Michael Bush is solid though. I don’t think any of them other than Williams will be that expensive.
I guess there's only one thing left to do.....win the whole ******* thing. - Major League
by 24rubikscube on Jul 25, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t want Ronnie Brown if he is going to require a huge salary, I do want him at a reasonable cost.
honestly, i would go after the other MIA rb … ricky williams. older, sure, but pretty durable (when he’s not retiring/smoking herb), still fast, catches the ball well, and likely to be way cheaper.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 26, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Paul Posluszny anyone? He’s been injured a bit, but when healthy, he’s a really good inside MLB, plus he’s got the Jauron connection. LB is down on our list of needs, but he can’t be that pricey.
"There is a small, but important difference between peeing in the pool and peeing into the pool." - Demitri Martin
i don’t think LB is that far down the list at all. we’re old, slow and not deep there right now.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 26, 2011 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I would love this.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jul 26, 2011 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think there’s any Browns fan who wouldn’t love seeing this happen for the right price. Honestly, unless we pay an absolutely ridiculous amount, I’ll be happy to see any defensive signings in FA considering that our Defensive depth is about .06 mm right now.
Alcohol abuse and Cleveland sports fans: hand-in-hand since 1955.
Indeed.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jul 28, 2011 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Per James Walker, Holmgren saying that WR is now a priority for us . ..
by Les Fleurs Du Mal on Jul 26, 2011 11:05 AM EDT reply actions
Boo.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Jul 26, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Statement.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Jul 26, 2011 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Although I agree Cleveland is thin at receiver, the Browns need to be more consistent with their message. It appears they’re trying to play both sides by saying they believe in Massaquoi and Robiskie, while also trying to acquire players who can replace them in the starting lineup.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 26, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
i should have commented below … i’ve never been convinced that the browns’ brass actually liked our (sucky) receivers. to me, the fact that they’re talking out of all sides of their mouth validates that.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 26, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Smokescreen.
(If all the nachos are stuck together, it only counts as one nacho.)
by North Coast Flea on Jul 26, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Gabe Watson could give us another 340+lbs DT.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
i liked him coming out of school, but i’ve lost track of him in az. i could support bringing him in.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 26, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
He isn’t flashy, he just does what he gets paid to do: be huge, stop the run, clog the middle.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
And we already have two of those guys. If we add a third our food budget is going to cut into what we can do in free agency.
Alcohol abuse and Cleveland sports fans: hand-in-hand since 1955.
Checking in over at PFT, Charles Johnson has resigned with Carolina: 6 years, 72 million.
That is a lot of scrilla. Also, McNabb rumored to have been dealt to Minnesota, which could have Sidney Rice returning there.
We do need a no. 1 wr now. No more trying to draft one since we decided not too this past draft. Spend some money and get one. Malcolm Floyd, Lance Moore are available. For the right amount, I might even sign Roy Williams. I’m sorry but Massaquoi and Robiske alone are just not going to cut it. I’ve read for the last yr about trying to not spend for players, why not? I guess you like cheering for mediocre teams, I don’t. Time to act is now. Delhomme should be gone…
I guess you like cheering for mediocre teams
what a stupid thing to say
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 26, 2011 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Lance Moore? A number 1?
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Jul 26, 2011 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
My bad.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Jul 26, 2011 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
we’ve got two 3s right now! Neither of the two would even be close to a 2 on any good teams.
by Brownsmeister1 on Jul 26, 2011 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s not a number two in the league who would look like a number two with Quinn, Anderson, Quinn, Anderson, Delhomme, Wallace, Delhomme, McCoy for a QB. Not one.
Both are entering their all important third year. Let’s wait and see before we declare them unfit for duty.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Jul 26, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
If it was just McCoy and not:
Quinn, Anderson, Quinn, Anderson, Delhomme, Wallace, Delhomme, McCoy
(If all the nachos are stuck together, it only counts as one nacho.)
by North Coast Flea on Jul 27, 2011 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
McCoy was up and down last year though. Let’s hope it’s all up his year.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Jul 27, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
You cant discount what McCoy was able to do in the his start vs the Steelers. McCoy single handedly beat the Jets in overtime too…..oh wait. Thats right, Stuckey fumbled at the 30 yard line. My bad..i suffer from many things but my Browns dilusion might be the worst. :)
The Devil Dog (Go Browns)
up and down
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Jul 27, 2011 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Even as a known (but reforming) McCoy homer, I feel comfortable saying – one has to admit his performance in that Jets game was pretty damn impressive for a rookie. Too bad he couldn’t keep it up down the final stretch against the Ravens and Steelers. That was painful to watch.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Jul 27, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Also had a pretty decent performance at Cincinnati coming off the injury.
19-25 for 243 yds (no ints), and a nice drive with 4 minutes left. Starting from their own 12 yard line,
5 plays in under 2 minutes ending with a 46 yard TD toss to Robiskie to pull within two points.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Jul 27, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
He has to show that the ravens and steelers didn’t “figure him out” like teams figured Derek Anderson out, but that he hit a speed bump in his development.
Help me Colt McCoy, you’re my only hope.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
he also had a couple awful last games…against stellar defenses in cold weather.
there is definitely reasons to be optimistic though
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Yep.
Too bad he couldn’t keep it up down the final stretch against the Ravens and Steelers. That was painful to watch.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Jul 27, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
He also had that high ankle sprain like all the other QBs so you have to give him a little bit of a break but durability could be a concern, especially because he doesn’t mind running with the ball.
Frankly I don’t think there’s much basis to the ‘durability concern’ stuff. He’s a good scrambler, but he isn’t hell bent on making yardage with his legs like Vick or VY for example. He was forced out of the pocket last season on many occasions and made some premature “rookie bail outs” on occasion, but I think ultimately he’s got the IQ , accuracy and field vision to become a true pocket QB.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Jul 27, 2011 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
He missed games and should have sat the rest of the season out. He has durability concerns, Vick or otherwise. The top QBs in the league rarely miss a game. It’s only been a year so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt for now, but if he’s going to miss 5+ games every year that won’t work.
if he’s going to miss 5+ games every year
Not sure what you’re basing this dire prediction on, but ok, whatever.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Jul 27, 2011 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Stop being so maudlin. I’m just saying if he continues to miss games like he did last year then that won’t work. Elite QBs play 16 games a year.
Sorry if I sounded dismissive. Of course you are right that many folks have valid concerns. Although I do stand by my point about believing he will probably keep the “bolting / running” in check and stay in the pocket, his size could be a bigger factor IMO. I don’t know how much more he will ‘beef up’, but no doubt his small stature isn’t going to help, compared to the Roethlisbergers and Flaccos who can take hits from the big dudes and break tackles and stay vertical. Roethlisberger is a freak of a QB in that regard as much as it disgusts me to admit it.
I’m pretty confident and think he’s a really tough kid, but I understand the concerns.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Jul 29, 2011 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions
he also missed games because he wasn’t 100% healthy to begin the season and was forced into a starting role and everyone else was hurt too. Now that he is fully recovered from that shoulder injury, it may be a different story.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
He missed games at the beginning of the season because he was third on the depth chart.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 28, 2011 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
so you’re telling me we should be on the quarterback market then? C’mon. Any neither will ever be a 2 without a 1. And you have to go out and get one! Julio Jones was there for us, if you believe in drafting one. Don’t get me wrong, I was happy with Browns trading down and getting defense. You have to know we need a threat at WR (in the west coast) and we don’t have one now…that we know, Greg Little might be him. Hoping….
by Brownsmeister1 on Jul 27, 2011 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think Jones is a number one. I think he was the biggest reach on draft day.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jul 28, 2011 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I think we will debate whether or not our deal was a good one because Jones will be that good.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Agreed. I fully expect Julio Jones to be much better at his position than Taylor at his. Cam Newton was the actual biggest reach in the draft, they should have grabbed a future elite defender and shot for the Luck sweepstakes.
"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert
I think Little has the potential be be slightly less satisfactory at WR than Jones. I wanted Jones during the draft but now I hope he busts so that we make out like bandits.
He’s not in our division, hell he’s not even in our conference, I hope he’s a beast, I love his playing style.
"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert
He can be a beast next season. This season I hope he costs them games.
(If all the nachos are stuck together, it only counts as one nacho.)
by North Coast Flea on Jul 28, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
We don’t play them this season, I hope he shatters rookie records playing so well.
"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert
We get their draft pick, so I hope he shatters rookie records with a backup QB en route to a 1-15 record.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I think they drafted Newton in an attempt to retain their players.
Are they able to resign Williams and Johnson if they are playing the Luck Lotto?
Mangini apologist by default.
At this point its just wait and see. It seemed like a fleecing at the time, but in retrospect I’m a little pissed we didn’t just take Julio. He will be an excellent pro and an excellent blocker for a Hillis, et al. To pass on elite talent is a little disheartening. It all depends on what we do with the xtra 1st next year.
I feel this should be written in stone and brought down from a mountain.
"I wasn’t asked to catch the ball and go out in the flats and run routes, because that wasn’t how our offense was," Lawrence Vickers said. "Now people are lying and people think I can’t catch. I guess I shouldn’t have started knocking people out."
hey Joey… reread last yrs messages and look back at what we got..6th pick. When are we going to stop drafting in the top 10? We’ve been “building” in the draft for years. Sometimes you have to get some “better than” backup FA to get to next level. For the Browns, that should be playoffs this year! That means getting a S, DE-LB and a WR. And Lance had 8 TDs on a team with other options, many other options.
by Brownsmeister1 on Jul 26, 2011 11:31 PM EDT reply actions
The Browns have always spent money in free agency, and usually lots of it.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jul 28, 2011 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions
At some point we have to spend money somewhere right? The brass are cutting Delhomme, which I’m fine with. The only problem is that opens our cap room up to about 40 million. Are we just gonna sign 40 million dollars worth of undrafted rookie free agents. I have a sinking feeling we are gonna miss on everyone and end up overpaying for buttholes just so we don’t get taint punched by not spending the required amount.
The person who doesn't scatter the morning dew will not comb gray hairs"- HST
1. you can never overpay for buttholes
2. trust in heckert. he’s got his guys and his targets. we’re in day 2 of FA … we’re not missing out yet.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 27, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention, spending wisely is always better than spending quickly.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jul 27, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
1. you can never overpay for buttholes
we’re not talking about football anymore, are we?
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
by Dawg Nuts on Jul 27, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
another move thats likely overpayed.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
you’re going to have to overpay to get “stars”. i would have overpaid for rice, and i hope we overpay for ray edwards. that’s just how it goes.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 27, 2011 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought Kwoog was Phil Savage.
(If all the nachos are stuck together, it only counts as one nacho.)
by North Coast Flea on Jul 28, 2011 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
at this point, I hope so too. I may have overpayed for rice, but I don’t see WR as being as dire of a need (while we don’t have a star, we at least have some decent depth)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
We have depth in that we have several receivers available on the roster, but there is nothing even remotely decent about the receiving corps.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 28, 2011 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Holmes got $50 million over 5 years and Rice is better, in my opinion.
"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert
Holmes has shown more consistency. I hate saying it, but he is better. Rice has only had one season where he performed at the level to deserve that type of $. Santonio has had a few seasons at a level where he would at least be somewhat worth that.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I think Rice is a better all around WR but has only once had the QB to display it. Not that Seattle is set up to fix that right away, but if they get a solid QB, he can be great.
"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert
Its a small sample size, but if you project rice’s stats out over a 16 game season from 2010 (granted, this is with not great QB play), its only 800 yards. Thats what Santonio gets in a bad season.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Using your own words, 3 of his 5 years were bad seasons, and 1 wasn’t far off.
"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert
a “bad season” for him. its all relative. From what Sidney rice has shown in his career, that would be a very good season
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
From what Sidney rice has shown in his career, that would be a very good season
Completely disagree, understanding his surroundings.
"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert
you mean that the one season he did better than that, it was with a HOF QB?
I am not saying Rice will be a bad WR, but this is quite irrational optimism
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
He’s not on the Browns, whether he busts or not doesn’t matter to me, so it’s not optimism. It’s an opinion based on my observations of both players.
"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert
and i undestand that. Sidney Rice has definitely shown flashes that he can be better, but I am not 100% convinced. I am more so when I looked at the SSS of stats from last season (which translate to over 16 games, 800 yards), but I am not to the point where I would bet on him having a better season than Holmes (though i wouldn’t at all be surprised)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Keep in mind that with the rookie pay scale more money can be thrown at veterans.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jul 28, 2011 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions
While other quarterbacks in the NFL found new homes, Kolb remained the property of the Philadelphia Eagles on Wednesday, although there were persistent indications that progress was being made toward finalizing a deal that would send Michael Vick’s(notes) backup to the Cardinals for cornerback Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie(notes) and a draft pick, probably a second rounder.
via Yahoo! Sports
This is as massive a fleecing in professional sports since the Lakers landed Pau Gasol. Rodgers-Cromartie, a damn good CB, alone is a huge steal, but topping the deal off with a second round pick… Eagles are on the verge of one hell of a swindle.
"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert
I think Cromartie is overrated. Besides, if Kolb turns out to be good, the Eagles got screwed.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jul 28, 2011 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions
If the Eagles make the Super Bowl this year, they will quickly forget the name Kolb. Also Vick has atleast 3 years left in his career. Plenty of time to find a replacement.
"I wasn’t asked to catch the ball and go out in the flats and run routes, because that wasn’t how our offense was," Lawrence Vickers said. "Now people are lying and people think I can’t catch. I guess I shouldn’t have started knocking people out."
Yep. I’d bet they’re taking a good hard look at Vince Young – as bizarre as it may seem.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Jul 28, 2011 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Cromartie is probably overrated, Rodgers-Cromartie on the the other hand is pretty damn good with room to improve.
"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert
He’s worth more than Kolb, who has had a total of two good games in his career.
Alcohol abuse and Cleveland sports fans: hand-in-hand since 1955.
I like Kolb better than any of the QBs in the draft this year.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Jul 28, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
no way. if kolb is a decent qb he’s worth more than r-cro.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 28, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
A mediocre QB is worth more than a pro-bowl corner.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jul 28, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
no question. and a good qb and 2nd rounder is a small gamble to pay on a qb you think is goign to be great.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 28, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
There are tons of decent QBs. The reason QB is so valued is that 1 elite QB can compensate for 45 average player. A decent QB will get you nowhere. We’ve had plenty of decent QBs and it doesn’t work. Either you have a monster team like the 2000 Ravens or 2002 Bucs with decent QBs or you have an elite QB that gives you superbowl potential every year even if your players are average.
Clearly, we have dramatically different definitions of “decent”. The Browns have had approx -10 “decent” QBs since the return by my math.
If Kolb is a little better than Mark Sanchez he’s a freaking grand slam for AZ.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 29, 2011 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Especially considering their QB options coming into today.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 29, 2011 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Anderson was for most of a season. Same could be said of Couch. Not that I’m disagreeing with you. One roughly ten game stretch doesn’t mean a whole lot.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jul 29, 2011 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Probably true, but what I’m getting at is that Dilfer can win the SB and Garcia can be a pro bowler with great players around them, but neither of them have the ability to elevate an average team like Brady or Manning can.
Garcia in his good years was worth more than any CB.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jul 29, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
You’re nuts I would take Nnamdi, Sanders, Hayes, Haynes, Revis and about another 12 or so CBs any day over Garcia on his best day.
1999-2002: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GarcJe00.htm#1999-2002-sum:passing
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jul 29, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Point being, that’s great QB play. That’s worth a hell of a lot more to a team than Sanders ever was, and more than Revis ever will be.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jul 29, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
For an easy look into how important QB play is, look at the Vikings. They have the best all-around team in the league, but no QB, so they really don’t have a shot.
Another example is the Raiders. They’ve had one of those guys you mentioned but that can only get them to 8-8. Trading Nnamdi for someone like Garcia in his prime would have been a steal for the Raiders.
Look at the teams to win the super bowl in the last decade. Outside of Baltimore, all of them had solid QBs. Few of them had elite corners.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jul 29, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand that QB play is important, just look at the Browns. However, I would take a lockdown corner over Jeff “jump pass” Garcia every day.
obviously, we all understand the flaws associated w/ citing wins and losses to evaluate individual players, but i don’t have much better to compare a qb and a db
jeff garcia teams win/loss record w/ garcia starting: 58-58
nnamdi teams w/l record w/ nnamdi starting: 28-68
it’s not dispositive, but “mediocre” jeff garcia’s teams performed light years better than nnamdi’s teams, and nnamdi is clearly one of the best corners in football.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 29, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
The impact on the game isn’t the same. Jeff Garcia was an above average QB his entire career. He won his teams more games than Nnamdi can ever hope to.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jul 29, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Neither one of you make any sense. If you are building a team, you try to get the best player possible at each position. Nnamdi is the best player at his position except arguably Revis. Jeff Garcia was never anywhere close to that, even in his pro bowl years. Comparing the value of the actual position is pointless as you have to have both of them.
Also we had Jeff Garcia and he made NFLNs Top 10 worst FA signings of all time!! Are you seriously trying to tell me you would rather have that epic disaster than the best CB in the league? I think you’re just arguing for arguments sake.
Garcia sucked here because the team and coaches sucked. He was great everywhere else he went.
Ignoring positional value is crazy. Why do you think QBs almost always go #1 overall?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jul 30, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
You are ridiculous. QB has more value than any other position on the football field and probably in sports in general.
You never get the best player in the league at every position, not even if you are the Jets. You have to sacrifice some places in lieu of others.
There’s a reason Peyton Manning can win with a couch with two rakes tied to it at TE and terrible CBs. There’s also a reason Nnamdi hasn’t won with bad QBs.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Sure but we’re not talking about Manning or Brady, we’re talking about average QBs.
Take your pick right now – who do you want right now, Kyle Orton or Nnamdi Asomugh. Be honest.
I don’t think Kyle Orton is an average QB without McDaniels. But I would take Mark Sanchez over Nnamdi every day of the week, and I hate Sanchez.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jul 30, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
But if Kyle Orton isn’t a McDaniels mirage, Kyle Orton every time.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Only Sanders for me. On a long-term contract so he wouldn’t bolt for my competitors in a year.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Indeed.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Jul 29, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
that was supposed to read “negative 10” … the dash for negative may not have done the trick.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 29, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
by the way … the deal’s done. r-cro and 2nd rounder to phi for kolb … who gets a $63mm deal w/ $22mm g’teed.
holy shit.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 28, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I do not believe in Kolb.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Same here, Eagles are coming out of this free agency period pretty damn well.
"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert
As much as I don’t want to overpay for guys. We do have a minimum we have to spend. Why not reach that minimum on quality players?
Mangini apologist by default.
I am with you. Here’s hoping there is a safety, a RT, and an Edwards not named Braylon in our future.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
We’ll have a better idea tomorrow I hope.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jul 28, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m I don’t believe in big FA signings because most players hit big money with their second contract and then play scared hoping to hit a third. I know we need to be patient and not be like the other teams paying crazy money for decent players. However I am a little down right now thinking about the fact that our best players were drafted in the top 10 (JT and JH) but 2 out of the last 3 years we’ve traded out. Yeah Mack is awesome but he’s a center, not a lot of impact. I hope Phil Taylor is everything I think he can be but I can’t help but think Julio would be pretty sweet right now. Signing guys like Usama Young is pretty damn underwhelming but I guess we need to be patient.
Davin Joesph returns to the Bucs : 7 years, 53 million
Vince Young reached a one year deal with the Iggles.
wow. The bucks are REALLY throwing money around. They just locked up 2 starters who were only decent in Quincy Black and Davin Joseph for 12 years and a total of 82 million.
Thats 6.8 million a year for 2 guys who are nothing better than solid at 2 non-impact positions (OLB and OG).
They are very much under the salary cap (44 million before they resign players and sign rookies) but this is just stupid and ridiculous. Invest money in players who matter like giving a bigger contract to Legarrette Blount or signing mike williams and Josh Freeman until they retire.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
CBA restricts contract extensions. Extending Freeman et al may not be an option.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
didn’t know that … can you elaborate?
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 29, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Oops. New rules wouldn’t apply to Freeman.
As pointed out by agent David Canter, incoming players will not be able to renegotiate contracts before the end of the third season on their rookie contracts. Undrafted players can renegotiate after their second year.
Looks like the restrictions only apply to this year’s draft class and subsequent draftees.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/25/new-cba-limits-early-renegotiated-contracts/
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
I would have thrown that kind of money at Joseph. I am a big fan of Joseph.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I am not sure I would have thrown that money at a borderline pro bowl guard. Thats a lot for a guard and i don’t think Joseph is that amazing
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I wanted Gallery. Raiders run game was really good with him at Guard.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jul 29, 2011 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I realize the front office said they weren’t going to be that active in FA this year, but we need to spend some money and we have some big holes to fill. Also, have we signed all our draft picks yet? There are a lot of teams out there with all their draft picks signed already and they are picking up some upgrades in FA, but we seem to be sitting back and just watching it all happen.
all draft picks are signed except for taylor.
the FO knows exactly who is available and exactly how much money they have to spend. clearly, they have a strategy … i just have no idea what it may be at this point.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 29, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
See which of our young players are good and lock them up long-term at the end of the season.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jul 30, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Just saw an interesting FA name on NFLN … Tamba Hali.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 30, 2011 12:37 PM EDT reply actions
Did not know that, thanks. Wonder why NFLN listed him as FA?
As for a FS … What about an old favorite of mine: Brodney Pool?
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 30, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I am surprised if Pool hasn’t been concussed out of the league.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
The Jets team docs said it was migraines, I don’t put much stock in that over a Cleveland Clinic diagnosis though.
(If all the nachos are stuck together, it only counts as one nacho.)
by North Coast Flea on Jul 30, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
If I want a FS who has missed time due to injury in the past, give me Dashon Goldson. Healthy, he is at least as good imo as pool and he is also only 26
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Cullen Jenkins to the Eagles. 5 years 25 million.
Would have loved him here if we stayed in the 3-4.
I wouldn’t pay a guy 25 million to see if he can play in both systems. Eagles can, I wouldn’t.
by Bernie19Kosar on Aug 1, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
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