Injuries Hurting the Depth at the Safety Position

by Chris Pokorny on Aug 17, 2011 1:45 PM EDT in General News

The Cleveland Browns are quickly approaching their second preseason game, and guess which position seems to have the most issues when it comes to depth? It isn't the defensive line, it's not at wide receiver, and I'd even go as far as saying it doesn't include the linebackers. The position with the biggest depth problems appears to be at safety.

Just think -- a couple of days ago, our first-team defense in practice was Mike Adams and Ray Ventrone. Eeek! Granted, that was only because T.J. Ward was at the dentist, but are we really one step away from putting Ventrone into the starting lineup? It won't matter that Joe Haden is on the field -- opponents would just go right after Ventrone every play.

[UPDATE: On cue, safety T.J. Ward had to leave practice early on Wednesday with a tight hamstring.]

The depth issues at safety were created thanks to the team's two new additions, Usama Young [projected starter] and Eric Hagg [late-round draft pick] suffering injuries. Both of them will probably return before the start of the regular season, but they will have missed out on some valuable training camp time.

A couple of days ago, the team did sign safety Brett Johnson off waivers from the Seattle Seahawks. He was signed by the Buffalo Bills as an undrafted free agent last year and spent time briefly with the Philadelphia Eagles and the St. Louis Rams. There's your Dick Jauron and Pat Shurmur connection. It's hard to say whether Johnson has a fair chance at making the roster, but if Young and Hagg remain out, I wouldn't be surprised to see him receive some serious playing time against the Detroit Lions.

Later today, I'll have the second edition of my 53-man roster projection, this time with a projected practice squad too, available to see.

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ouch. no pun intended.

Smile big, hug bigger. Talk big, act bigger. Stop judging do something, shut the fck up do something.

by pwndabear on Aug 17, 2011 1:55 PM EDT reply actions

Depth at the safety position? We got rid of that. Who needs secondary depth, not the Browns.

"I don't know what no means"

by BenRapelisberger on Aug 17, 2011 2:23 PM EDT reply actions

We got rid of Elam and added Young. That’s a wash in my book.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Aug 17, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions

I’d say Elam is better than Young, even though he’d be out of position here.

cautiously realistic

by North Coast Flea on Aug 17, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree, Elam was a serviceable starter. While I haven’t seen enough of Young to make a real assessment yet, I’d be surprised if he’s the starter a year from now.

Alcohol abuse and Cleveland sports fans: hand-in-hand since 1955.

by Clevsports on Aug 17, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions

as a FS, I would say its a wash when it comes to depth

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Aug 17, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Ehhh I want to see Young actually play for us before I’d make that call.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 17, 2011 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions

I think would should have kept Elam and added Young, you know, for depth.

"I don't know what no means"

by BenRapelisberger on Aug 17, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions

How many players are allowed on a practice squad?

by Don'tBuyBrownsQBJerseys on Aug 17, 2011 2:43 PM EDT reply actions

I think it’s eight, unless that was changed in the CBA.

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill

by JustBob on Aug 17, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions

Off Topic

Anyone other than myself linking the Miami Hurricanes story “(Yahoo Link)”http://sports.yahoo.com/investigations/news;ylt=AunAMOn2IYKClRGUotERT7o5nYcB?slug=cr-renegademiami_booster_details_illicit_benefits_081611 with how Kellen Winslow acted when he arrived here? This goes a pretty long ways towards explaining how entitled he acted when he joined the team….

by sleepy042 on Aug 17, 2011 3:19 PM EDT reply actions

there’s a fanshot up already.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Aug 17, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions

It’s hard to say whether Johnson has a fair chance at making the roster, but if Young and Hagg remain out, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him receive some serious playing time against the Detroit Lion

It looks like CB James Dockery got work with the 1s at FS with Ward’s absence… Adams switched over to SS. You have the feeling that the Browns are high on this guy as they are trying to discover how versatile he is.

Nate Ulrich
@ABJ_Browns
Undrafted rookie James Dockery playing FS w/ 1st-team D. Mike Adams at SS. T.J. Ward sitting out.

by Noël Pretila on Aug 17, 2011 3:19 PM EDT reply actions

I’ve said it since camp started that i really like dockery and that he deserves a roster spot, he didn’t look bad against green bay, and he has performed in practice, lets see how well he does against detroit!

by lightninmcqueen on Aug 17, 2011 3:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Dockery looks like a good prospect and so does Hagan. I know its not a given but either of those guys should be able to make the transition to FS if needed.

by HenryDawg on Aug 17, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah…watching him line-up during the first exhibition game — he really looked the part as he both pressed the line as well as defended the pass. I counted only one time a ball was thrown his way — on that pass reception near the goal line that got overturned when Shurmur threw out the red flag…and even then, his coverage was very tight.

It’ll be interesting to see how he fares against the Lions 1s — but it seems like he has been holding his own against our ones during training camp.

On another note, I’ve seen UDFAs and late round draft choices make a splash in training camp as rookies with the Browns before (e.g., Cribbs) but never have I seen such a high frequency of them being inserted into starting roles early on during the exhibition season. On Offense, Jason Pinkston looks to start Friday at LG and on Defense we have the possibility of two UDFAs starting against Detroit in SLB Brian Smith and FS James Dockery.

by Noël Pretila on Aug 17, 2011 4:11 PM EDT reply actions

. On Offense, Jason Pinkston looks to start Friday at LG and on Defense

What about Steinbach?

2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion

by TheDriveStillHurts on Aug 17, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Steinbach’s back got tweaked this morning…supposedly a minor injury but he is being withheld from the Detroit game as a precautionary measure. Also, Steiny didn’t participate in walk-throughs this afternoon which is tell-tale sign that he won’t play Friday.

TonyGrossi Tony Grossi
#Browns LG Eric Steinbach (back) not on field in PM walkthru. Rookie Jason Pinkston.with first team.

by Noël Pretila on Aug 17, 2011 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Pinkston v. Suh? I don’t think I like that. I would probably start Greco instead. At least he has some NFL experience.

by HenryDawg on Aug 17, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions

JT will just have to pick up the slack.

Alcohol abuse and Cleveland sports fans: hand-in-hand since 1955.

by Clevsports on Aug 17, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions

We should just line Mack and Thomas up wherever Suh is.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 17, 2011 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Yes.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 17, 2011 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Suh will line up over Lauvao.

by Roger Dorn on Aug 18, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions

I saw that, good test for him. If he holds up we have a starter for sure.

by HenryDawg on Aug 18, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions

Ah…Nate Ulrich is reporting that Ward and Young are in this afternoon’s walk-through session. Looks like they will both start this Friday then…

@ABJ_Browns
Nate Ulrich
#Browns safeties T.J. Ward and Usama Young participating in walk-through session

by Noël Pretila on Aug 17, 2011 4:14 PM EDT reply actions

Here’s the 53 man roster: Joe Thomas * 53… H&H are using the extra Cap money to build a Joe Thomas Clone Machine. SB here we come.

by ChiTownBrownie on Aug 17, 2011 4:28 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

If Lerner had to pay JT 53 times, he’d be broke.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 17, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions

JT doesn’t need money. He pays for everything in pancakes.

Alcohol abuse and Cleveland sports fans: hand-in-hand since 1955.

by Clevsports on Aug 17, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions

DEAR GOD. The Joe Thomas army is coming for me?! WHAT DID I DO!?!?!?!?!?

Pittsburgh is just jealous. We got Cudi and they have Wiz.

by SpecialBrownie on Aug 17, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Hagg and Young need to get healthy really quick.

I would love for them to put some CBs at FS if we are really down to using Ventrone. Patterson, Sheldon Brown, or the aforementioned Dockery would be better than Ventrone. I know it’s a little crazy, but other teams have had packages that put their best CBs at FS (Malcom Jenkins at OSU comes to mind), we could even put Haden back there.

For the moment with seemingly solid CB depth and no safety depth at all, we need to at least consider this.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 17, 2011 4:38 PM EDT reply actions

I would rather keep more CBs and less Safeties because as you said a CB can transition to FS, but not all FS can play CB

by HenryDawg on Aug 17, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions

So you are saying that all CBs are squares?

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Aug 17, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions

If we’re dependent on Hagg and Young, then our secondary is bad…

I guess there's only one thing left to do.....win the whole ******* thing. - Major League

by 24rubikscube on Aug 17, 2011 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions

No, if we’re dependent on Ventrone our secondary is bad. I expect Young to be an average FS this year. There’s Adams if he goes down and we can work Hagg where the coaches feel he’s best.

We have yet to see either of those guys in game action, I don’t know why you think they are so terrible. They might turn out to be bad, but we don’t know yet.

We know Ventrone is bad.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 17, 2011 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions

I’m not saying they are bad. We just have no idea what we have in Hagg yet. That’s a lot to rely on for a 7th rounder.

I guess there's only one thing left to do.....win the whole ******* thing. - Major League

by 24rubikscube on Aug 17, 2011 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions

He should be the 4th (or 5th, if we can have a CB move there first) safety. And really if he is worse than Ventrone then we are no more boned then we already were (because Ventrone will play).

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 18, 2011 2:58 AM EDT up reply actions

So, here’s something I’ve noticed with this team… It seems like they know how to pick and utilize UDFA’s and low draft picks much better than Mangini. I mean, I don’t see any indication of us dropping Hagg, Pinkston and the like. Also, Lauvao and Mitchell seem to be emerging as good talents… so far.

Pittsburgh is just jealous. We got Cudi and they have Wiz.

by SpecialBrownie on Aug 17, 2011 7:45 PM EDT reply actions

And Norwood

by emily522 on Aug 17, 2011 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions

Damnit. I thought I said something specifically about Norwood.

Pittsburgh is just jealous. We got Cudi and they have Wiz.

by SpecialBrownie on Aug 17, 2011 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions

So you’re giving credit to this FO for not cutting UDFA’s and low draft picks over the course 2 weeks, a month before the season even starts; in comparison to over 2 season when the players really show if they’re worthy or not and be cut accordingly?

That wasn’t a ridiculous statement at all…

by The Licensed Pessimist on Aug 17, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Jesus christ how did I know you were going to try and shit on this.

Pittsburgh is just jealous. We got Cudi and they have Wiz.

by SpecialBrownie on Aug 17, 2011 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Because you realized what you said made no sense at all? What is an indication of the players being cut? Did Mangini force the rookies to wear a cut timer around their necks? Just for example, Larry Asante and Clifton Geathers were cut on the 5th of September last year, so they were still on the team by this time last year. Did you get the sense they were going to be cut before-hand? How does your statement make any sense at all?

by The Licensed Pessimist on Aug 17, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions

I think there is a better recognition of talent as a whole. I think we have seen better quality draft picks, udfa with potential, and don’t forget the trades for Brown and Hillis. Within two offseasons we have made significant upgrades in key positions. We may have even found a franchise QB in Holmgrens first year. Something we have tried to find since our return.

by darthVictor13 on Aug 17, 2011 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions

This. Don’t forget Mitchell. Queue TLP saying he hasn’t done anything yet.

by HenryDawg on Aug 18, 2011 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions

And he would be right.

cautiously realistic

by North Coast Flea on Aug 18, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions

Brown and Hillis?

Mangini apologist by default.

by Villeslgr on Aug 18, 2011 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions

I don’t know, I thought Mangini worked the waiver wire pretty decently.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 18, 2011 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions

Mangini was great at waivers except for the Don Carey incident.

by Roger Dorn on Aug 18, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions

All’s fair in love and waivers.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 18, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Just because they aren’t cutting them doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t be cut. That’s some weird logic you’re using.

Mangini apologist by default.

by Villeslgr on Aug 18, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Eric Wright would have been terrific at free safety, and Abe Elam was rock solid at strong safety. And I beg to differ, until the final cut, I would not go so far as to say, LB is not a problem.

by mooncamping on Aug 18, 2011 2:17 AM EDT reply actions

STRETCH

Do these guys even stretch? All I see so far is blah blah blah….tight hamstring, quad strain, calf pull….All of these things are not CONTACT related. Just lazy football players who are not hydrated and do not stretch. I live in Allentown and watch a few Eagles camp days. They almost never stretch between plays or anything of the sort. RIDICULOUS.

by sean222 on Aug 18, 2011 10:39 AM EDT reply actions

right

Smile big, hug bigger. Talk big, act bigger. Stop judging do something, shut the fck up do something.

by pwndabear on Aug 18, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions

I don’t know that stretching prevents injuries. Warming up, but stretching I don’t think so.

Mangini apologist by default.

by Villeslgr on Aug 18, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Or rather “static” stretching.

Mangini apologist by default.

by Villeslgr on Aug 18, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Increasing flexibility undoubtedly prevents injuries. Static stretching increases flexibility.

Whether or not players need to be doing static stretches before/during practice is a different story. The research there is cloudy so far, but the recent trend is toward dynamic stretching and warm up. Coaches will also implement ball skills into these warmups now.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 18, 2011 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions