Cynicism and Cleveland QBs
by realmccoy on Aug 20, 2011 12:48 PM EDT
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I want to offer a counter argument to the posters who compare Colt McCoy's start in preseason vs. Jake Delhomme's 2010 preseason. You know who you are, and I am here to tell you that cynicism is the true death of the human soul. It is ok and even logical to be excited by the start of this offense, this HC, and this QB. First of all, let me give the cynics their due:
- You are factually correct. Jake Delhomme's 2010 preseason was in the ballpark of what Colt McCoy is doing in the 2011 preseason.
- The fact is that the performance of Jake did not translate to the regular season.
- The fact is that the Browns have really sucked at about an 85% clip since the return. Many of those seasons had been stoked with optimism from preseason performance.
But here is where that jaded view of cynicism gets you - the logic dictates that this is different. The reality is there are much more differences in Colt vs. Jake than there are similiarities. The reality is our DBN poster is correct that statistics are like bikinis - what they don't reveal are critical. Here is why it is ok to be optimistic about the Colt and the Browns' offense:
- Jake was a struggling, washed up veteran with a recent history of throwing just WTF interceptions. He panicked under pressure and made poor decisions. The vanilla of preseason football was a perfect tonic for him. Colt is younger, and did not display this characteristic as a rookie and he should improve from there.
- Colt is operating under an offensive HC, in an established, strategically proven offensive system. If you have an accurate QB, that can make quick reads, the WCO is just a bitch to stop. Just ask Pittsburgh. Jake, and all the other QBs were operating in an offense that 1 year later, I still cannot tell you what they were trying to do.
- Jake had a full complement of OTAs and practice in the 2010 season. Colt was basically like Bill Murray after Sgt Hulka was blown up in the movie "Stripes". The offense and him were learning on their own. He invested significant time coordinating practices, and talking with WCO QB Gurus. BTW - that is the way winners are born. They just flat out "out work you".
- What is more amazing for Colt and Shurmur is not the numbers. Throw the statistics out. What is amazing is the progress the offense has made in 2-3 weeks without the OTAs, without the practices. There are very few miscommunications between QB and WR - that is very impressive.
Terry Pluto stated that he is ready to conclude that we have finally established a perfect marriage of a QBs abilities suited to the coach, the WCO, and the front office. That prolly is over optimistic. From my perspective, I was expecting a huge learning curve due to the lack of OTAs and practices. I was thinking that we were the leader in the clubhouse for the number 1 overall pick. After this preseason, I am ratcheting up my take:
- I see an exciting young team, in the top 12-15 in offense that will win around 7-8 games. Too many depth and defensive issues to be a playoff contender.
- I was really down on WRs - and now see the cynicism and error in my ways. I am really excited that Robo and MoMass may now be the 3rd and 4th WRs on the team. Cribbs has been the best in camp, Norwood shows serious promise in the slot and I don't think you can keep him off the team. Add to that a guy I really didn't like in Greg Little - has definitely exceeded expectations.
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You are a Texas Homer! (just wanted to get that out of the way)
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
I am a Browns homer . . . and I liked what you had to say.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Aug 20, 2011 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m a Texas homer who has always hated the Cowboys, and was too young to appreciate the Oilers.
So I go now in the NFL where I may watch the most Longhorns play the most minutes… and DBN has made me decide to be a Browns fan. Tons of great, knowledgeable posters that helped me learn to understand the pro game.
Yes, I am a Texan homer who hates the cowboys, loved the oilers, and has been from my earliest memories a fan & player of the game. I appreciated the oilers, they had some bad assed teams, and I liked watching them spank pukesburgh (whiteshoes johnson= 1 bad assed WR). Though I will always be a Browns fan, through the good and the bad. Its like a long marriage, it was fun at first, then got to be a chore, now the weights coming off and its fun again.
"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." - Joe Haden, Cleveland Browns.
If he only goes for 5.3 YPA like last night, we will win a lot of games if that stat line includes 3 TD, 0 INT.
The Lions were giving us short fields when he was in the game, and he took advantage.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
All I am sayin is that field position played a part in the stat line last night. YPA can be a good indicator of efficiency, but not once you are inside the 30, and not on 3rd down.
I am much more concerned with the % of our runs that have gone for -1 to 2 yards on first and second down.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
It’s not like he didn’t go over the top for one of the TDs. The pass to Moore on the 2nd TD was awesome. He did the same with Cribbs the prior week.
I’m with you RealMcCoy until you said the part about the depth issues. So far, what I’ve seen is that we are deeper than we thought. The one thing that I think we learned last night about McCoy is that he’s the type of QB that can take advantage of good situations. What I mean by that is he’s becoming a clutch QB. Granted, it is preseason and you can call the Lions’ gameplan vanilla but no matter what they do defensively, that line of theirs creates pressure. It is, in my opinion, the best defensive line in the NFL even without Fairley.
Now as far as the depth issues, I’ve been pretty impressed by the depth at LB, which is where I was most worried. Maiava looked fast and physical last night. Titus Brown’s showing us why he’s stuck around this long, and any of the other undrafted guy could step up. I think we’re good there. Another area of concern, to me was the offensive line but Greco held his own against Suh, Baxter looked good, and Pinkston looks like the guy that will end up replacing Steinbach in a year or two. On offense, I think we’re surprisingly deep. The only thing that could really hurt us is if Brandon Jackson had to start. I think what he’s proven is that he’s 3rd down back material but a damn good 3rd down back.
Defensively, I’d say we’re going to see issues with line depth at the ends if we don’t pick someone else up that can get to the QB. We also need one of our young corners to step up fast! Skrine looks, to me, like he’s going to be good but he needs work. This other guy, Hickory dickory Dockery, I’m not sure about. I keep hearing about all the plays he’s making in camp but I have yet to see him around the ball in a game. Again, one of those guys has to step up because Sheldon Brown is decent but he seems to be more suited as a backup or FS at this point of his career. I think he’s going to get picked on a lot this year. I’m not seeing coaches tape or anything like that but I just think he’s lost a step.
Lastly, I want to point out to the naysayers that we were missing 8 projected starters last night and a couple that are expected to contribute this year. So, if anything, the backups are getting some very important reps that they wouldn’t usually get. That alone helps our depth.
Hopefully you are right. Maybe some of the backups are really talented and will really step up. But what I see is that only Tuba on the DL has taken any significant snaps at the NFL level. And that is if I cheat and say NT=DT. No DT has taken a DT snap. We really do not have a true free safety and we do not have a 4th safety or an experienced 3rd corner. But like you say – if Skrine is a gem – who cares if we have experience in the 2 deep. On the LB, DQ can do it if he can survive the season, and Gocong and Fujita bring some experience. Beyond that – no real proven depth. Here is hoping the young guys like Maliava, Skrine, Brown, Benard, Taylor, and Shead really do the job. If so – Heckert deserves a raise – a huge one.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
Young is pretty close to a FS. He played CB in college and they usually transition to FS pretty good.
I think the only thing we know for sure is that they are young. It’s too early to tell about talent, but it looks like we’ll be deeper than we thought and our WRs (combined with our TEs) will be just fine.
Well I’m not gonna say it’s certain…
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
Me neither, I voted no but only because I will reserve my judgement until after the first regular season game.
"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden
I’ve got high hopes for McCoy, but I didn’t vote, the poll options were to restricting. None of the options applied to me.
"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert
I voted for Nader.
Mangini apologist by default.
by Villeslgr on Aug 22, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I would’ve voted for Ratty.
cautiously realistic
by North Coast Flea on Aug 22, 2011 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
If you have an accurate QB, that can make quick reads, the WCO is just a bitch to stop. Just ask Pittsburgh. Jake, and all the other QBs were operating in an offense that 1 year later, I still cannot tell you what they were trying to do.
For this statement alone I had to rec this post, McCoy or no McCoy.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Aug 20, 2011 5:12 PM EDT reply actions
Poor Chad Henne, he thought he had it bad before…
by HenryDawg on Aug 20, 2011 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
17-13 ranked offense. A little below average at first but transitioning to a top 15 by years end.
"buuuuuuuh!"--- Mooncamping
I want to add that having an offense that looks competent, accurate, and exciting will (in time) bring players to Cleveland who will WANT to play for this team, this coach, and line up with Colt. A lot of seasons Cleveland was one of those destinations players/agents wanted to avoid. It was a mess…point blank and simple. But with stability and a commitment to grow from within in a crop of talented youth from the top on down it will draw others to want to play in Cleveland.
It won’t happen overnight, but what we are seeing is a good start. The team still has to look at the Eagles and Bears before their season shows a little light breaks by facing Cincy. Some will say this season will be an easy one for a young team to build some confidence in.
"Time to eat all your words, swallow your pride, open your eyes!"--Tears for Fears (Sowing the Seeds of Love)
"But I still believe
I still believe
Through the pain
And the grief
Through the lives
Through the storms
Through the cries
And through the wars
Oh, I still believe"---The Call (Fitting for a TRUE Cleveland Browns fan)
NFLN is about to do a piece on how impressive Colt’s been.
I think the way he’s gotten rid of the ball quickly and with certainty has been very impressive. He is throwing it as soon as his back foot hits the 7th stride back which should help nullify a lot of pass rush issues. His timing and accuracy have been outstanding. If there is one area he needs to improve it is getting the ball down, his bad passes tend to float on him, but I have no doubt he can fix that.
He’s not throwing picks. Thats the biggest thing for me. Not just putting it up for grabs.
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
Bernie was the last, consistently good QB in Cleveland. That’s a gimme, for most. My generation, and older, have been waiting for an “athletic Bernie”. I think, we got what we’ve been wanting, for once. Finally!
Tim Couch could have excited us the same way Colt is if the organization hadn’t ass-boned him by giving him an OL made up of has-beens and never-weres.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
by Dawg Nuts on Aug 21, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
that’s one of the best compliments I’ve ever received.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
by Dawg Nuts on Aug 22, 2011 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
This. Colt does not have gifted arm strength, but he can make all the throws. The caveat is that his foot placement and timing have to be almost perfect to deliver solid strikes down the field. It looks like he is doing it in preseason, so I hope he kills it during the year.
Not sure gifted arm strength is all it's cracked up to be
Did you ever notice that some of the players with “gifted” arms will throw off their back foot? Generally that’s a surefire formula for inaccuracy and interceptions.
I’ll take the guy who has perfect form and a slightly weaker arm over the the “ass-bone” that thinks his arm can defy physics and human will by making a tight throw into triple coverage and not be batted down or intercepted.
OT: Is anyone one else sad that another tOSU player is going to fail miserably in the NFL. I mean Pryor didn’t have a great shot to begin with, but being drafted by Oakland is pretty much a death mark.
Alcohol abuse and Cleveland sports fans: hand-in-hand since 1955.
not sad.
"You are the worst villains in football, your evil plan never ceases."-Mooncamping
by discoinferno083 on Aug 24, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
he’s such an asshole (and i’m a huge tOSU fan) that i kind of hope he fails.
by DontCallMeJoey on Aug 25, 2011 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Well yeah, I mean I don’t care about Pryor personally. It just seems like everyone that comes out of tOSU busts.
Come on Marecic, get in front of the damn ball! Don't give me this "olé" bullsht!
When you send a lot of guys to the pros it will seem that way. If you actually broke it down you would probably see that most of them were steady players if not HoFers.
I don’t know. There are a few successful players in the NFL right now out of OSU, but a lot of them get drafted, spend a few middle of the road years in the league and then disappear. How many of them make it to a Pro Bowl? Eddie George was the last OSU player to start a Super Bowl.
Come on Marecic, get in front of the damn ball! Don't give me this "olé" bullsht!
Will Smith and Malcom Jenkins started for the Saints when they won the Super Bowl.
AJ Hawk and Ryan Pickett started for the Packers last season when they won the Super Bowl.
That’s four just off the past two winners.
by Bernie19Kosar on Aug 28, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
The reality is that most players don’t make it in the league, regardless of school.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Aug 29, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Have you watched any Superbowls since that Tennesse game?
There have been lots of Buckeyes on those teams. Geez, Mike Vrabel started in three for the Patriots. Santonio Holmes won the stinking Superbowl MVP for the Steelers!
Holmes was never a Buckeye. You shut your mouth.
Pittsburgh is just jealous. We got Cudi and they have Wiz.
by SpecialBrownie on Aug 30, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Never.
Pittsburgh is just jealous. We got Cudi and they have Wiz.
by SpecialBrownie on Aug 30, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
hyperbole alert!
I can name only 1-2 clear busts in the last decade. Vernon Ghoston and Ted Ginn and its hard to completely blame tOSU for that because they were as advertised: boom or bust guys. Both were elite physical specimens who would most likely either bust completely or be pro bowlers.
Nick mangold and Santonio certainly aren’t busts. Check your bias at the door
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
in fairness, there haven’t been a whole lot of “studs” out of tOSU in the pros, either.
by DontCallMeJoey on Aug 30, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Gholston and Ginn both should have stayed another year. I still can’t figure out why people can’t utilize Ginn. Amazing athletics, son of a high school coach, maybe try back at CB or even KR, anything to get him going.
I still can’t figure out why people can’t utilize Ginn.
It could be because he isn’t that good and you’re being a homer.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
by Dawg Nuts on Aug 30, 2011 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
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