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Offense Continues to Roll Under McCoy in Browns' 30-28 Loss to Lions

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Despite the fact that the offense and the defense were missing several key starters, the Cleveland Browns were able to put together a 21-13 lead to begin the second half. These two teams seem like they are built for a shootout whenever they face each other, but this still marks the second consecutive week that we've seen some good things from the West Coast Offense. My complete game review of the team's 30-28 loss to the Lions is after the jump.

DETROIT LIONS (2-0) GAME #2 CLEVELAND BROWNS (1-1)
VS.
30 28

 

Star-divide

PRESEASON GAME 2 - DETROIT LIONS VS. CLEVELAND BROWNS (COMPLETE GAME REVIEW)

  1. Goat of the Game: RB Armond Smith - With potential injuries to all three of our top running backs, Smith had a golden opportunity to show he was worthy of a roster spot in the second half of the game. He was off to a great start when he ran for an 81-yard touchdown, although pretty much any fast person could've scored through that gaping hole. The Browns were then up 28-13 and got the ball right back.
     
    Unfortunately, Smith fumbled after being on the receiving end of a screen pass, leading to a quick Detroit touchdown. Two series later, Smith fumbled for the second time in the game trying to extend for extra yardage. One play later, Drew Stanton threw for a touchdown, shrinking the team's lead to just one point at 28-27.
     
    You like to give players the benefit of the doubt sometimes. Heck, I think Peyton Hillis had a couple of fumbles in one preseason game last year. But Smith has made quite a few mistakes in the sessions I've been to, and the only real asset I see out of him is that he seems faster than the rest of our backs. That alone is not enough to keep a guy in my opinion.
     
  2. Goat of the Game: QB Jarrett Brown - Talk about a guy who has looked terrible during the preseason games, despite looking quite good during training camp sessions. He went 0-for-4 against the Lions and also had a fumble that was somehow recovered by the Browns. Between Brown and Smith, the team had no chance to rally after the Lions took a 30-28 lead late in the fourth quarter. Brown has looked rattled in these preseason games due to the live action, as he refuses to trust his protection and stay in the pocket like he does when he knows he won't get hit in training camp. He doesn't look like a good enough third quarterback right now.
     
  3. Awarding Game Balls: TE Evan Moore - That two-yard touchdown pass on 3rd-and-1 on the team's second drive? I loved it. With the mismatches that Moore creates, I don't see how a defense stops that play unless they bring a double team (or, of course, if McCoy's throw is off target). And, if an opponent does bring a double team, somebody else should have a favorable opening. On Moore's second touchdown reception, he showed that he's not just a guy with size -- he has good concentration when the football is in the air, and I was impressed by his field awareness to get two feet touched down in the end zone before going out of bounds.
     
    Those are the two plays everyone might be talking about, but Moore's third play was also impressive. On a 1st-and-10 from midfield, Colt McCoy quickly fired the ball to Moore, who caught the ball and used his speed to run upfield and pick up 17 yards. He took a shot that made me cringe at the end of the play, and reports indicate that he might have suffered a concussion. I hope that's not the case, it would be terrible to lose a guy who I believe could be the team's best offensive threat after Peyton Hillis.
     
  4. Drops Will Stall Drives: This is an obvious statement, but it showed the only way our passing has really been stopped over the past two weeks: dropped passes. On the offense's first drive of the game, Alex Smith removed some of my praise for him by dropping a perfect pass when he was wide open. Then, fullback Owen Marecic followed it up by having a ball bounce right off of him. So far, Marecic isn't doing much to make me hope we get him the ball.
     
  5. Early Force Up Front: Did it seem strange that before the draft, the defensive line was our biggest area of concern, and yet in the second preseason game, it was our deepest defensive unit? I was looking for Phil Taylor and Jabaal Sheard to make some noise against Detroit's first-team offense, and they did a good job right off the bat. On a handoff to Jahvid Best, Taylor came through the hole and bearhugged Best from behind. Then, Sheard came in front of Best and tried to strip the ball away from him. He succeeded, and then fell on top of it to give the Browns good field position.
     
  6. Jackson Shows a Nice Effort: The final stats for running back Brandon Jackson weren't particular impressive. He finished with 8 carries for 19 yards and 1 catch for five yards before leaving with a turf toe. The one play I loved was on the team's second offensive possession. On a pitch play, the strong safety came untouched on a blitz that should have blown up the play, but Jackson shed off the contact and continued going for 8 yards and a first down. Jackson's carries looked like this: 1, 8, 2, -1, -3, 2, -3, and 13 yards. I don't blame Jackson for some of those plays with negative yardage, so overall I think he was a good performance for him again.
     
  7. A Little Chip Shot on Suh: Looking back at the tape, I wanted to see how Shawn Lauvao did against Ndamukong Suh. On the Browns' first scoring drive, you probably remember a 12-yard diving catch that Greg Little made near the right sideline. Assuming Suh was not getting a breather at that point, off of the playaction, Suh tried to do a move to get past Lauvao's left side and come up the middle to disrupt McCoy. As soon as he did that though, Brandon Jackson gave a shoulder to him as he ran up the middle, allowing Lauvao to easily contain Suh as McCoy delivered the pass to Little.
     
  8. McCoy's Confidence and Quick Reads: The preseason has brought out a new confidence in Colt McCoy to the point where he seems to be making very good reads quickly. Early in training camp, it seemed like Seneca Wallace was ahead of him in that respect. In the two preseason games, it's been the opposite. McCoy's success goes with the good, aggressive playcalling.
     
    I like spreading the field four wide on a first down play from ten yards away from the end zone. Joshua Cribbs found the soft spot over the middle in the zone, and McCoy delivered the pass exactly when it needed to be thrown. Whether it be on playaction or Shotgun, the playbook gives McCoy a pretty deep looking dropback, perhaps allowing him to see more of the field without the defensive line being in his face.
     
  9. More on the Moore Play Design: On Evan Moore's first touchdown grab, he lined up as the second tight end on the left side with his hand on the ground. Colt McCoy sent him in motion, and right away you can see the one player who follows him. If they were going to double team him before, I think McCoy quickly knew it wasn't the case anymore. Moore, who was now lined up in the slot to the right, ran the play I've seen over and over in training camp for the easy score. Too many rhymes.
     
  10. Ridiculous Review: How absurd was it that...
     
    -Evan Moore's first touchdown was reviewed by the booth upstairs.
    -Nate Burleson's touchdown for Detroit was given the quick "ok" by the officials upstairs.
     
    The inconsistency of this system is going to drive fans nuts. And then, we know that confirmed scores will only be followed by...another touchback out of the end zone! Yay! My goodness, I wish the owners could do a re-vote before the start of the regular season to put the kickoffs back to the 30.
     
  11. Burleson Owned the Browns: We need to give credit where credit is due -- wide receiver Nate Burleson pretty much owned the Browns' defense, even cornerback Joe Haden, on Friday. His first dose of success came on an end around that went for 26 yards. Jayme Mitchell needs to take a better angle on that play to try to alter Burleson's path. It looked like he saw the play developing, but just didn't react or didn't believe they'd hand it to him. Also, Kaluka Maiava and Joe Haden could not get off of their blocks, allowing Burleson to have so much open field.
     
  12. Picking on Adams: One reason that safety Mike Adams should not be starting? Last year, he was picked on in the red zone on throws right up the middle. Matthew Stafford threw it over the middle to Nate Burleson in the back of the end zone, who came down with a touchdown. I've looked at the review several times, and I swear that Burleson's second foot came down on top of his other foot, without ever touching the ground, before Burleson landed out of bounds. Hopefully Usama Young defends plays better in these situations.
     
  13. Sheard's Pursuit: Even though defensive holding ended up being called on Dimitri Patterson, when Matthew Stafford rolled out of the pocket, I liked seeing Jabaal Sheard chase him out of bounds. It was a good test to see just how fast Sheard is in the open field, as he wasn't going to allow Stafford to run up the field.
     
  14. D'Qwell and Titus Do Well: Defensively, my favorite part of the preseason has been the play of D'Qwell Jackson. He might be the most important player on our defense because of how important the middle linebacker position is. He finished with five tackles, one of which came on a play where he shot behind the line of scrimmage to stop a running back for a loss of two. Titus Brown was also active in relief, finishing with five tackles.
     
  15. Not Buying the Fake: The Browns released defensive end Cliff Avril on a playaction fake, and he didn't buy it. When Colt McCoy turned around, he was able to throw the ball away just as Avril tossed him to the ground. On the next play, the Browns handed it off but Brandon Jackson was met by about three guys right away. McCoy took quite a few shots against the Lions, so it's good to see that he was fine after the game.
     
  16. Shanks by McGee: I'm not trying to be greedy, but I think it's time to bring in a veteran punter if one is available. Richmond McGee had a 29-yard shank, and later had a short punt that bounced off one of the Lions' coverage players accidentally. Three of his eight punts were downed inside the 20, but we can't afford to have a punter who misses badly twice in a game. That can kill a field position battle, especially when more intimidating teams like the Ravens and Steelers are your opponents.
     
  17. Marecic or Pinkston? It's tough to judge if anyone is at fault for a blown up running play, or if you just give credit to the defense. I wanted to look at Jason Pinkston when he came in the game, and I noticed one play where Brandon Jackson was hit by an unblocked safety for a loss of three. The play appeared to be designed for an outside run, because that is where fullback Owen Marecic immediately went.
     
    Two guys came through the left guard's area, but Pinkston picked up the inside guy. If Pinkston gets the outside guy, Jackson is probably bouncing to the outside before the inside rusher has time to get him. However, you could say that if Marecic had picked up the safety himself, Jackson would've been alone to the outside. Either way, the whole series for McCoy ended up being his worst of the game, as he later threw two passes with no receiver having a chance at catching the ball.
     
  18. Less Action for Norwood: Even though he was targeted three times, wide receiver Jordan Norwood did not come away with any receptions. He did have a nice 20-yard punt return that he fielded on the run to give the Browns great field position, setting up Moore's second touchdown.
     
  19. Special Teams Tackles: There were six players who had one tackle each on special teams. They included LB Auston English, LB Archie Donald, DB DeAngelo Smith, S Brett Johnson, LB Steve Octavien, and FB Owen Marecic.
     
  20. Former Browns: Former Browns RB Jerome Harrison had 6 carries for 27 yards, while RB Mike Bell had 11 carries for 33 yards. Bell looked just like he did last year -- a guy who can help make some of our defensive players look better.
     
  21. Penalties on Both Sides: How many penalties did the Detroit Lions have on kickoffs, ones that were of the offsides variety? Sheesh. Detroit had 14 penalties, while Cleveland had 12 penalties. This team needs a little more discipline right now, but I think that'll improve when you have only the starters getting reps.
     
  22. Brownies: I'm still wondering where WR Johnathan Haggerty has been this preseason...I haven't seen anything flashy out of TE Jordan Cameron yet, and wouldn't be surprised it he is the fourth tight end on opening day...WR Brian Robiskie was only targeted once...DB James Dockery continues to be used in a variety of roles, but still remains on the bubble...the Browns had a nice wheel route set up for RB Brandon Jackson in the second quarter after a fullback fake, but the pass was off-target due to QB Colt McCoy being hit low (Detroit was penalized)...according to the stat sheet, LB Sidney Tarver played, so I guess he's finally healthy again...both teams struggled on third downs, as Cleveland was only 2/10 in those situations...both conversions came with the first-team offense...WR Maurice Stovall's size was too much for the Browns' backup defenders to handle, as he picked on defensive backs Buster Skrine and James Dockery for 4 catches, 67 yards, and 1 touchdown on only 4 targets.

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Nice summary! I thought McCoy looked really good this week after the first series. I’m wondering what the deal is with Marecic as his big talent was supposed to be receiving out of the backfield and so far he has looked pretty bad. Hopefully that is just rookie jitters. Little has been VERY encouraging.
I’m concerned about Hardesty who I hoped would be able to play this year. He is shaping up to be a bust due to injuries. It was admittedly a risky pick for this reason and the additional injury last year seems to have been the final nail in the coffin. Will Hardesty be a factor at all this year? Again, Robiski disappeared in this game after having a couple of good plays in the last game. This is the Robiski career story.
You have to be thrilled about our tight end play. In this system it is really good to have the talent we have at tight end.

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Aug 21, 2011 11:00 AM EDT reply actions  

Hardesty had been practicing all week, I think he just wasn’t ready to go. I’d be surprised if he doesn’t play in the third game.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Aug 21, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

From reports I’ve been reading recently all indications are we’ll probably see Hardesty Thursday night.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Aug 21, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

They are just being conservative with him, I think he’ll be fine to start the season. Whether he is good or not is another question.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 22, 2011 3:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just watched the game. It’s good to see our starting offense put up points. This new system makes them look fast.

And thanks to NFLN for having Browns coverage the entire time. I rarely get to see games like that.
Kosar needs to take the martini olives out of his mouth when he speaks.

My dog is a badass. His name is Kosar.

by Brownie's Year on Aug 21, 2011 12:43 PM EDT reply actions  

bernie took one too many hits to the head.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Aug 21, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

One too many or uh, 60 to many.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Aug 21, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Could you imagine what kind of team they would have had if Bernie played behind this line! I’m guessing at least 2 SUPERBOWLS! Plus Metcalfe up the middle would have been effective

by ctowndawgpound on Aug 21, 2011 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

and wouldn’t be punch drunk

by ctowndawgpound on Aug 21, 2011 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

It took him 5 seconds to say endzone.

My dog is a badass. His name is Kosar.

by Brownie's Year on Aug 21, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, and great crack-back block by Cribbs on DE Young in the 2nd quarter. Way to be physical.

My dog is a badass. His name is Kosar.

by Brownie's Year on Aug 21, 2011 12:48 PM EDT reply actions  

I just watched the rebroadcast this morning and it looked like he had one in the 1st qtr as well.

I also saw some good tackling from English at the LB position and on ST. I wish I was better at spotting when LBs do something wrong other than missing tackles (i.e., out of position) so that I could have a better idea of his play overall, but I think he has a decent chance of making the team.

Also, I was surprised at how small Sheard looked next to the other DL, but he seems to be playing okay. Would like to say great, but hopefully that comes along.

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill

by JustBob on Aug 21, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sheard has solid size for a 4-3 rush end, I think the other three are just huge.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 22, 2011 4:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah. slightly undersized but no more than some of the other speed oriented rushers out there like Freeney or Osi

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Aug 22, 2011 5:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think I saw that one too. Works great for a run look off of that shallow series I was talking about. Same motion, and we can run the pin/pull zone off of it.

Then we can motion, fake the run and have Cribbs run either a cross or a route behind the formation and catch the ball.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 22, 2011 4:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

On Marecic

Since my wife’s at Stanford right now, I’ve seen a lot of Marecic the past two years.

The biggest thing is that he was NEVER used as a receiver in Jim Harbaugh’s system, although clearly Shurmur and company seem to think he has the tools. I would guess this year is going to be a work in progress for him on that front, and I’m a little surprised he’s been targeted this much in the preseason.

The good: He was consistently a beast blocking in Harbaugh’s power running game – Marecic consistently blew up linebackers and obliterated defensive backs. Second, his conditioning should be excellent for a rookie considering that he didn’t only play both ways for Stanford – he was a key starter in both regards. The guy was in for probably about 80% of plays on both sides of the field – he’s a warrior and does not take plays off.

To sum it up, he’s going to be raw as a receiver and as seen already this year, his awareness in that regard is way behind (he should improve as the year goes on), but he has the potential to be just as good of a blocker as Vickers and has the same type of blue-collar attitude that we love from Hillis.

by Brazillian Dandy on Aug 21, 2011 2:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Interesting, thanks for the input.

According to several people here, who likely didn’t watch nearly as much Stanford football as yourself, Marecic’s pass catching was supposed to be his advantage over Vickers, and why he fit in this offense better. Personally, I was questioning the pick when it was made, but was willing to withhold judgement. Then we made no attempt to resign Vickers (a proven great FB) who openly said he wanted to stay in Cleveland, which was upsetting, but also left massive shoes for Marcic to fill. And then the preseason was only more discouraging. I think Heckert made a mistake. Obviously, FB isn’t a make or break position, so it’s not world ending by any means, but a still probably a mistake nonetheless.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Aug 21, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m a Stanford homer and saw him play a lot too. Dandy is absolutely right. Luck pretty much never threw to Marecic. Whoever said he has better hands than Vickers is delusional. There’s no evidence to back up that argument. But we can all agree that with ball-in-hand, he’s a bruiser.

My dog is a badass. His name is Kosar.

by Brownie's Year on Aug 21, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

But we can all agree that with ball-in-hand, he’s a bruiser.

Though, in a typical “Give it to the FB”-situation, I’d still rather give it too Hillis. For example: 4th qtr, under a minute on the clock, 4 and goal, 1 yard from pay dirt, TD wins it… Hillis or Marecic? I’m giving that carry to Hillis everytime.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Aug 21, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

No doubt about it!!!

My dog is a badass. His name is Kosar.

by Brownie's Year on Aug 21, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Were you around during the Browns draft?

Everyone justified the pick by saying he was great at catching out of the backfield but no one who actually tracked stanford football said anything to the contrary.

by The Licensed Pessimist on Aug 21, 2011 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well, not everyone was saying that, but there were quite a few.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Aug 21, 2011 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m confused. You said everyone here said Marecic could catch out of the backfield. Then you said “but no one who follows Stanford said anything to the contrary.”

So people here said he could catch, and people from Stanford agreed. I don’t get your point.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Aug 21, 2011 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

TLP is right. The 2 or 3 of us Stanford guys weren’t here. That’s why no one who knows Marecic had any truth to say. TLP wasn’t trying to be an asshole. He asked a question. You need to chill out and stop trying to make people look stupid.

My dog is a badass. His name is Kosar.

by Brownie's Year on Aug 21, 2011 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wasn’t trying to make anyone look stupid. I was/am legitimately confused. I still don’t get what his point was.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Aug 22, 2011 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m confused. You said Marecic could catch better than Vickers. Then you said Vickers doesn’t fit into our new offense, implying Marecic did?

Where exactly are these better hands? Where exactly were these better hands?
Marecic’s Stanford receiving numbers are no better than Vickers (when Vickers was actually being targeted.)

I’m just wondering what evidence you had to believe Marecic was a better pass catcher than Vickers? And, seeing as you don’t think Vickers fits in this offense, what exactly is Marecic doing where he does?

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Aug 21, 2011 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didn’t Heckert have anything to say about the pick? I’m pretty sure his reasoning for drafting Marecic was because they liked his hands better..

Am I misremembering?

by C.b.I on Aug 21, 2011 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

First of all, I don’t see what this has to do with my comment.

Second of all, the FO said they wanted a FB that could be a receiver, and they drafted Marecic. Now maybe they wanted a FB that could catch the ball and they drafted one that couldn’t anyway, but I don’t think they’re stupid. We were also told by the media that he had better hands than Vickers, sorry I believed them. Lastly, I’ve seen Vickers try to catch a football, and he can’t do it, so anyone is bound to be an improvement.

I don’t know why Marecic has sucked at catching so far. Maybe he doesn’t actually have good hands. None of this changes whether or not Vickers fits in a WCO.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Aug 22, 2011 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lastly, I’ve seen Vickers try to catch a football thrown by Brady Quinn, Derek Anderson, Jake Delhomme, Seneca Wallace, and a rookie Colt McCoy, and he can’t do it,

fixed

cautiously realistic

by North Coast Flea on Aug 22, 2011 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bad hands are bad hands. It doesn’t matter who’s throwing the ball.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Aug 22, 2011 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

So If he can’t catch a football this must be CGI. There’s also a cameo by a DBN celebrity.

cautiously realistic

by North Coast Flea on Aug 22, 2011 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Really man? You blame the QBs and then you show us PRACTICE footage as proof that he had hands? That’s pretty weak. I’ve seen him drop passes in games.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 22, 2011 4:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was combating his ridiculous statement with ridiculous proof. If he couldn’t catch he wouldn’t be an offensive player other than a linemen.

cautiously realistic

by North Coast Flea on Aug 22, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

You’re kidding right? Do you know what hyperbole is? I know he can catch the ball during practice with no one covering him if it’s thrown right at his chest. I know he doesn’t literally drop everything.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Aug 22, 2011 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

That was my point is that you were throwing up obvious hyperbole.

cautiously realistic

by North Coast Flea on Aug 22, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

We were also told by the media that he had better hands than Vickers, sorry I believed them.

Classic rookie mistake, but it’s okay as long as you learn from it. ; )

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill

by JustBob on Aug 22, 2011 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Vickers can’t catch. I know that he says he can, but I have seen that isn’t true.

The guy never look comfortable catching the ball.

by Bernie19Kosar on Aug 24, 2011 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

You would be correct. Just because you’re a pessimist doesn’t mean you’re wrong.

Mangini apologist by default.

by Villeslgr on Aug 21, 2011 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

So far Marecic has caught 1 ball. Thats about infinity% more than Vickers had caught for us.

He’s definitely got better hands than Vickers.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 22, 2011 4:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’ll accept that.

My dog is a badass. His name is Kosar.

by Brownie's Year on Aug 22, 2011 7:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

You’re kidding right? Do you know what hyperbole is?

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Aug 22, 2011 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

what part of BY’s post is hyperbole?

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Aug 22, 2011 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

So far Marecic has caught 1 ball. Thats about infinity% more than Vickers had caught for us.

He’s definitely got better hands than Vickers.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Aug 22, 2011 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

This is a stupid argument to be having, let’s just stop. Truce?

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Aug 22, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

I thought the fullback discussion was worth having. This very specific portion of it, though, is definitely pointless.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Aug 22, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, I am kidding.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 22, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very interesting considering we got rid of Vickers because he supposedly couldn’t catch.

Mangini apologist by default.

by Villeslgr on Aug 21, 2011 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whether or not Marecic can catch doesn’t suddenly give Vickers the ability to catch a ball. We’ve seen that Vickers can’t do it already. Maybe Marecic can’t either.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Aug 22, 2011 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

It doesn’t give us the Vickers the ability to catch but it gives us the ability to keep him since he has proven to be effective for us rather than replacing him with an unproven FB with no added upgrades. And gives us the opportunity to use that pick elsewhere.

by The Licensed Pessimist on Aug 22, 2011 3:04 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

The whining about late round picks is not really doing anything for me. That’s a 4th round pick. What % chance of being on the roster in 3 years would any pick there have?

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 22, 2011 4:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

its a 4th round pick at honestly the least used position on the field besides special teamers. Don’t get me wrong, I love a good FB, but a lot of teams barely use theirs.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Aug 22, 2011 5:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

An added reason why this discussion is pointless. If people want to be upset that we used that pick on a fullback because they think picking a fullback is a bad idea that’s fine by me. I get that people loved Vickers. I did too. But this is like arguing over whether the sky is light blue or just blue. Who cares?

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Aug 22, 2011 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

But this is like arguing over whether the sky is light blue or just blue. Who cares?

I am totally with you. if this was the WR position or QB, it would be something much more worth talking about

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Aug 22, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

If so many teams don’t use their fullback why waste a pick on one? Late or not. Especially when you already have a fullback?

Mangini apologist by default.

by Villeslgr on Aug 22, 2011 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

teams also draft kickers occasionally and those guys are often completely interchangeable.

Even if a team doesn’t use a fullback a ton, is the 4th round really all that much to “waste”? there are very few legit players at any impact positions left. You are going to be chosing between a guy who went to a major college who was solid but has physical deficiencies (Dion Lewis) or a guy with good physical attributes from a small school (Buster Skrine)

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Aug 22, 2011 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

But this is like arguing over whether the sky is light blue or just blue. Who cares?

It’s important because it speaks to the decision making process of the FO.

Mangini apologist by default.

by Villeslgr on Aug 22, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

The whining about late round picks is not really doing anything for me.

We’re having a discussion on the FB situation. If it doesn’t do anything for you, feel free to not participate in the discussion?

That’s a 4th round pick. What % chance of being on the roster in 3 years would any pick there have?

Well, if the 4th round pick was used on someone other than a FB, we’d probably still have Vickers, which at least puts our lead blocking in better place.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Aug 22, 2011 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

It’s a late round pick. It doesn’t matter. You spend it on a guy you think has a good chance into developing into something down the road, and you move on.

At that point in the draft, many of the guys still on the board won’t be any good. That’s why I don’t care about “wasting” the pick.

If we still had Vickers, we’d still have a FB the front office didn’t think was worth keeping on the roster. He was a good player at his position, but he wasn’t the second coming. And he played FB, one of the least valuable positions out there. Now we at least have the threat of passing to Maceric, which is really all we need.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 22, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now we at least have the threat of passing to Maceric, which is really all we need.

Which will be nonexistent once the season starts.

Mangini apologist by default.

by Villeslgr on Aug 22, 2011 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

He will have to catch a few balls and prove that it is a threat. Vickers had already proven he wasn’t.

You can have your prediction that Maceric will never be a receiving threat, but I think he’ll do a solid job of catching the ball when he’s thrown to.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 22, 2011 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not saying that.

We do know however that Vickers was a damn good fullback. To get rid of a damn good FB because he can’t catch only to replace him with an inexperienced fullback that can’t catch is very reminiscent of declaring Jayme Mitchell and NFL football player worthy of any discussion.

Mangini apologist by default.

by Villeslgr on Aug 22, 2011 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s ridiculous and you know it. The value of the DE position is sky-high in a league where pressuring the passer is key. A FB’s value? Not so much.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 22, 2011 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let’s keep in mind that we didn’t cut Vickers, he was a free agent. While I think it’s quite likely we could have retained him if we wanted to, it’s not a given.

by Roger Dorn on Aug 22, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Im very pleased with McCoy and the simple fact that the system seems to be working. I’m seeing not only McCoy deliver the ball accurately and make good decisions, but receivers getting open not based so much on speed/talent, but b/c of the playcalling. That is extremely encouraging given that we’ve had our far share of headscratching playcalls and outside of our first scripted drives…not much success the last few years. We’re also scoring TDs in the red zone…which again, has been in short supply of late.

by johnnyphoenix on Aug 21, 2011 6:52 PM EDT reply actions  

The offensive play calling has been the most exciting thing for me about the preseason so far. I’ll admit I don’t understand as much about game plans and tactics as say Rufio, but it always seemed last year that Daboll never took advantage of talent he had. The way they used Moore in last night’s game made me happy simply because they seem to be play calling around his talents rather than trying to force him into a certain scheme.

Offensive just seems to be clicking excellently.

by BiggieBrown on Aug 21, 2011 8:07 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

McCoy and Stafford are fantasy sleepers, Stafford less because he’s shown those flashes but just has to stay on the field.
A lot of people are saying McCoy can’t succeed without the support of a good running game, but I argue the opposite. I think McCoy’s ability to spread the wealth in short/intermediate passes will set up Hillis/Jackson/Hardesty or whoever nicely. I know it’s hard to get too excited over the preseason, but McCoy is exceeding the expectations I placed on him heading into last offseason from a standpoint of being ‘the guy’. It’s not even the stat lines themselves I’m most impressed with.

by Dammit Cerrato... on Aug 21, 2011 9:42 PM EDT reply actions  

You’ve hit on one the the things that still baffles me. If most of our passing game is in the short/intermediate range, then doesn’t that keep a safety closer to the LoS and doesn’t that in turn make it harder to run? I suppose if the offensive formation pulls the safety to one side and the run goes to the other it might help?

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill

by JustBob on Aug 22, 2011 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

If the defense is declaring a MoFC look pre-snap, that should be enough to burn them through the air.

If they have to screw that safety down after the snap he could be out of position. And if we know he’s coming down into the box, that’s when we can go deep.

Our offense will be based around the short/intermediate passing game, that will be our bread and butter. But if an opponent is good enough to take that away or schemes specifically to take that away, they will be weak in other areas. We will have plays to burn them when they expose those other areas.

We burn them, they back off, we go back to what we like to do. It’s a cat and mouse game.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 22, 2011 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Uhh, I never said Marecic couldn’t catch.

My dog is a badass. His name is Kosar.

by Brownie's Year on Aug 22, 2011 7:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Then I’m even more confused by our exchange above.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Aug 22, 2011 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

I also didn’t say who I thought had the better hands. Maybe you misread?

My dog is a badass. His name is Kosar.

by Brownie's Year on Aug 22, 2011 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I actually vote to stop complaining about fullbacks entirely. They aren’t even very important to the WCO.

No one drafts a fullback because he can catch, because even if they can the fullback still won’t be thrown to hardly at all.

The real reason we drafted him whcih no one is mentioning is for his special teams ability.

by Roger Dorn on Aug 22, 2011 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can see fullbacks fitting on that list right under Mike Vick. I don’t think Mooncamping is going to like that move though.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Aug 22, 2011 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

I actually vote to stop complaining about fullbacks entirely.

That makes two of us.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Aug 22, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think the point is that people, including you, kept expressing an uneducated opinion about Marecic being able to catch out of the backfield when you obviously had no proof or justification for that opinion. If that was the case, then people have their right to feel that the pick was pointless.

Not surprising, Rufio want to pretend as if it’s not a big deal for the fact that what he was expressing in regards to the pick was unfounded.

by The Licensed Pessimist on Aug 22, 2011 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

So your contention is that fullback is an important position and that we have enough information to judge Marecic based on 2 preseason games?

by Roger Dorn on Aug 22, 2011 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Show me any post I made where I stated I was worried about Marecic’s catching ability after 2 games

by The Licensed Pessimist on Aug 23, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

It was a question. I was asking if that’s how you felt since you are making a big deal out of nothing.

by Roger Dorn on Aug 23, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

You opinion is uneducated because it was wrong and it was after the fact. lets looks at the numbers both of these players accomplished their last year in college.

Vickers: 26 receptions, 126 yards and two TD’s

Marecic: 9 rec, 79 yards and 0 TD’s

Vickers had three times as many catches as Marecic in college and yet you believe Marecic is the better catcher? Why, only for the fact that it’s what supports your stance at the moment.

So this is what you stated about Vickers catching ability in comparison to Marecic.

What’s Vickers’ excuse for why he can’t catch?

We picked Marecic because Vickers can’t catch the ball consistently

And now you’re saying that because Marecic has caught one ball, he’s accomplished more than vickers despite the fact that coaching has never given him the chance?

You’re opinion is unfounded because it was uneducated. If we are going to develop and/or pray for Marecic’s catching ability then there is no reason why we couldn’t have done the same for Vickers

And it’s really funny for the fact that you talk down on the contribution of the stanford players who have actually watched stanford football and think you’re opinion is somewhat valid or higher after watching a couple youtube highlights. It’s laughable.

FO uses a 4th round pick on Cameron? We have a solid player who’s important to the team.

FO may have wasted a 4th round pick on a FB? It’s just a fourth round pick! How often do those players actually contribute?

You’re the one who keeps picking and choosing my friend.

by The Licensed Pessimist on Aug 23, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Vickers: 26 receptions, 126 yards and two TD’s

Marecic: 9 rec, 79 yards and 0 TD’s

yeah, this means nothing. For the sake of this, lets compare Brian Robiskie and Titus Young. Young was a speed demon in college and some questioned his hands. Robiskie was considered to have reliable hands. In Robiskie’s best season he had 55 catches for 935 yards. Last year, Titus Young had 71 catches for 1215 yards.

Its not always the player, its how they are featured in the offense. That all depends on actually watching the players play, scouting them, and actually seeing how they do when targeted.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Aug 23, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

And now you’re saying that because Marecic has caught one ball, he’s accomplished more than vickers

This was a joke.

If we are going to develop and/or pray for Marecic’s catching ability then there is no reason why we couldn’t have done the same for Vickers

Vickers had proven in the NFL that he couldn’t catch the ball consistently, Maceric hasn’t proven anything yet. Based on his college film, he’s looked like he can develop. If you want to call that “after the fact” for Vickers, fine. But the decision was based on the information we had at the time of the draft, which included that information.

you talk down on the contribution of the stanford players who have actually watched stanford football

Those were Stanford fans, not Stanford players. And I’ve watched Stanford play more than just youtube highlights. Thanks to Andrew Luck, I’ve watched them a lot, actually. What’s laughable is that you are taking any Stanford fan’s word as gold (when they agree with you) because they are a fan of the team Maceric came from. You think OSU fans were right about Troy Smith’s draft evaluations? They can say whatever they want, I can disagree.

4th round picks are 4th round picks, they never matter that much in the scheme of things. Jordan Cameron has a lot of potential and I think he was a solid pick (read: it was a pretty good choice to draft him given our options) but he hasn’t done a damn thing yet. When did I say he had? All of these drafted players are important to the team because if a good number of them don’t succeed, our franchise fails. How is that picking and choosing?

And way to try to sidestep that one BTW. I’ve told you my position: 4th round picks are a crapshoot and we shouldn’t complain about any one of them individually. Eventually some will need to work out for us.

Now what’s yours about the preseason? Either Colt is going to light it up and Maceric can’t catch or it doesn’t really tell us a whole lot. You can’t only take negative things away from it.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 23, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

4th round picks are a crapshoot and we shouldn’t complain about any one of them individually

We can complain about a 4th round pick if drafting that 4th round pick was part of a plan to get rid of a productive player. He will and should be measured against the production of the player he is replacing. I don’t care what round he was drafted in.

Mangini apologist by default.

by Villeslgr on Aug 25, 2011 7:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

kept expressing an uneducated opinion

dude, this is the internet.

by DontCallMeJoey on Aug 24, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Moore’s second TD catch (the deep pass) was a pass play called four verticals—I think. You can’t really see the receivers to the top of the screen on the replay. It’s a little surprising that McCoy went to Moore because the play is usually designed to run the CBs off, make the FS wrong and throw to one of the inside receivers.

Moore’s big catch that led to the 3rd TD was on a pass concept called Smash. Outside receiver runs a short curl vs. zone, and converts that to an in vs. man. inside receiver runs a corner route. We scored that TD on the same concept to the other side, only Little caught it as the guy running the corner route. Prediction: we will love this concept in the red zone.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 22, 2011 4:50 AM EDT reply actions  

IMO the short field of the red zone will suit this offense just fine.

Teams that can march down the field consistently picking up yardage methodically can work with the short field better than teams that rely on big plays that only work maybe 40% of the time.

by scrumm on Aug 22, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

We also have good tight ends, which are traditionally big assets in the red zone. I’m much more worried about our ability to move the ball to the red zone than our abliity to finish.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Aug 22, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Me too. Though something I would have like to have seen more in the preseason games so far is short-yardage running. We were one of the best teams in the league last year at running the ball when we needed 1ish yard to convert a 3rd/4th, or to score.

Based on our running game so far, I am scared we will lose this—and I think it is one of the attributes that can really elevate the level of a football team.

Of course, we don’t need to run on 4th and inches if we pass the ball to a wide open Evan Moore on second down.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 22, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think we will discover Shurmur’s philosophy to be to go for the endzone once we make it down to about the 30 yard line (wherever he feels like Phil’s “automatic” zone is). I think we will actually be going for those big plays once we get down there.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 22, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

have we heard anything else about moore’s injury?

by DontCallMeJoey on Aug 24, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mild concussion, but I’ve read multiple reports he’s already back to 100% in camp practices.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Aug 24, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

these injuries (head injuries, in particular) make me nervous with him.

by DontCallMeJoey on Aug 24, 2011 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed. When it comes to multiple concussions, its hard to be optimistic or spin it in any positive way. Concussions suck. Hard.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Aug 24, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Man, I hope he doesn’t turn into the Brodney Poole of the offense.

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill

by JustBob on Aug 25, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

21-13 to begin the first half? That’s a nice spot.

@grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff

by woodsmeister on Aug 22, 2011 9:31 AM EDT reply actions  

I want to feel this way, but Colt and our 1’s were still playing when Detroit was subbing in some 2’s. Then again, scoring on 2’s is better than not scoring on 2’s.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 22, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Colt and our 1’s

With a mostly ineffective 3rd string Jackson subbing for Hillis and 2nd stringer Greco subbing for Steinbech it wasn’t exactly our 1st string offense out there.

I noticed the guys over on the Lions blog crowing about how “our 1st string played their 2nd string” for the 2nd quarter, which is ridiculous when you think about all our 1st stringers on offense and defense that were sidelined for that entire game.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Aug 22, 2011 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Without Suh, that defense isn’t the same. Quit making excuses for Colt—he doesn’t need excuses. It was our first string that we could field that night against their second string, that’s it and that’s all.

Let the Lions fans talk. Hopefully we can just point to the regular season W-L record and let that do the talking for us. If not, they have the right to yap all they want.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 23, 2011 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Quit making excuses for Colt

Please tell me where in my comment I somehow “made an excuse for Colt”. I was making a general statement regarding the “it was our 1st string vs. their 2nd string” BS.

Also – please stop assuming every comment I make about our offense, even if the word “Colt” or “McCoy” isn’t contained in the comment must somehow be a homerism defense of Colt McCoy. Its getting very fucking annoying.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Aug 23, 2011 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

With a mostly ineffective 3rd string Jackson subbing for Hillis and 2nd stringer Greco subbing for Steinbech it wasn’t exactly our 1st string offense out there.

All I see there is excuses. It was our 1s.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 23, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was not making any excuses for Colt specifically in any way. Hell, everyone’s been hailing Colt (on this blog and on others) as if he light up the field Friday night. He didn’t. He was given good field position on several occasions and took advantage of it and that’s about it. I think his performance was ok, but the only comments I’ve made since that game regarding Colt is that he looked uncomfortable with the pressure but seemed to settle in and handle it ok after settling down. The TEAM performed well against Detroit even though they were missing a number of starters, despite what some on the Lions blog want to claim. This is really all I was trying to say.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Aug 23, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was given good field position on several occasions and took advantage of it

I wouldn’t downplay this ability – we haven’t really seen that ability since the rebirth and it is important. Turnovers don’t mean that much if you don’t convert them to points, especially TDs. I probably don’t have to remind you of the JAX game where we had 6 of them and still lost.

by HenryDawg on Aug 23, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

You replied to my comment, in which I was specifically talking about Colt:

I want to feel this way, but Colt and our 1’s were still playing when Detroit was subbing in some 2’s. Then again, scoring on 2’s is better than not scoring on 2’s.

I am sorry I made the jump to you talking about Colt specifically, I don’t know how I wasn’t supposed to read into it that way. He’s the leader of our offense and the most important person on the team. Our season—and probably more than just one season—is resting on his shoulders.

So when I was talking about “Colt and the 1’s”—a phrase that you directly quoted—I was talking about him and his performance specifically. You talked about how the absence of some of our players might have affected things, and I assumed one of those things would be QB play. I was definitely confused if you were talking about the team in general because I was trying to talk about Colt as a big and important part of our team.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 23, 2011 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fair enough. I definitely did not intend my comment as an ‘excuse’ for McCoy in any way shape or form.
I’ll be the first to say he has yet to prove by any stretch that he’s ready to face teams like Baltimore and Pittsburgh again any time soon. The deer in the headlights look he flashed the other night had better be long gone by then.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Aug 23, 2011 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s done nothing to temper my optimism thus far. Connecting on back shoulder fades is a great sign.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 24, 2011 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

It was our first string that we could field that night against their second string, that’s it and that’s all

One other thing – stop being a jackass with comments like this. Its uncalled for, especially for someone who’s supposed to be a moderator who’s supposed to be monitoring the board for obstinate, hard headed arrogant comments like this one.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Aug 23, 2011 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I see no problem. If you have a problem, talk to Chris privately. Quit being a jackass by airing it in public.

Pittsburgh is just jealous. We got Cudi and they have Wiz.

by SpecialBrownie on Aug 23, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shove it.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Aug 23, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Shove it.
Sorry, this was over the line. Please see below.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Aug 23, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

If rufio or one of the mods needs to discuss this with me, let THEM do so.

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Aug 23, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m sorry man, it’s a fact that we fielded the best team we could that night and we played them longer than Detroit played theirs. I don’t know in what “non-jackassy” way you want me to say that.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Aug 23, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry if I overreacted (see up above for my response on the overall topic).

Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.

by burntorangeandbrown on Aug 23, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I get a kick out of these from time to time.

"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert

by Simmsinns on Aug 23, 2011 5:51 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

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