Eric Steinbach and The Domino Effect at Left Guard
Injuries are a killer for Cleveland sports teams right now. When it comes to the Indians, arguably the team's best offensive players, like Grady Sizemore, Michael Brantley, Jason Kipnis, Shin-Soo Choo, and Travis Hafner have missed significant playing time.
When it comes to the Browns, we're seeing a trend that isn't very welcoming to fans. Sure, we haven't lost any critical players such as Joe Haden, Joe Thomas, Colt McCoy, or Peyton Hillis, but the long list of "small" injuries have prevented a lot of players from practicing or even seeing action in the preseason. The latest situation involves the left guard position. As we pointed out Friday night, reports surfaced that Eric Steinbach's season could be in jeopardy due to a back injury.
Steinbach's injury is really just another part of a domino effect that has taken place at the guard position since the lockout ended. First, the team decided not to re-sign veteran offensive lineman Floyd Womack, instead giving Shawn Lauvao the starting right guard role. Even if giving Lauvao the starting role was the right move, Womack still could have been retained as a backup guard and tackle.
Instead, the Browns opted to re-sign offensive guard Billy Yates. At the time, it seemed like a good move given the fact that Yates played well a year ago. Unfortunately, Yates mysteriously "retired" a few days into camp. I wonder if there is any chance that Yates would come back if he were told he would start at left guard? I doubt it.
Yates' retirement thrust fifth-round draft pick Jason Pinkston into the backup left guard role, which came as a surprise to me considering I thought he'd be working exclusively on the right side of the line, particularly at right tackle. With offensive lineman John Greco on the roster too, formerly of the Rams, it seemed like he'd be a more likely candidate to fill in after Yates' departure.
Then, when Steinbach went down, the coaching staff teased playing Greco there for one series against the Detroit Lions in the second preseason game. Since then, it's been all Pinkston, all the time. The fact is that we're hurting depth-wise at the tackle position right now. We went from having...
-Eric Steinbach (long-time veteran starter)
-Shawn Lauvao (high draft pick from last year)
-Billy Yates (long-time veteran backup)
-John Greco (younger backup)
...to now having...
-Jason Pinkston (rookie fourth-rounder)
-Shawn Lauvao (high draft pick from last year)
-John Greco (younger backup)
-Pat Murray (I'm grasping here folks)
It's not that I'm overly concerned about the guard position. I think Lauvao has played very well this camp and preseason, and I'm happy to see Pinkston getting the experience in. No one can tell me that Steinbach isn't the better option though right now, and he'll be missed in the starting lineup. I hope the news comes back positive on him and that he's able to play this season, but the early reports from around the NFL don't seem too optimistic.
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The latest situation involves the left tackle position.
Scared me for a split second there, then I realized it was a typo because mortal afflictions can’t harm the One True God.
cautiously realistic
by North Coast Flea on Aug 27, 2011 12:49 AM EDT reply actions
Greco will help keep McCoy health. Just run to the other side, because he lacks a bit as a run blocker.
He’s a good guy too. An asset to your team if he stays inside his skillset. Have a great season Dawgs!
Why aren´t Calton Ford and Domenic Alford considered? Does everybody have to qualify per designation and categorizability…high enough draft pick…high enough contract…we´ve had more talent in camp, that was dumped, just because they don´t fit into these molds.
Same goes for Eric Gordon. I´m seriously cringing, just because you never mention him. These routines are getting really old.
I’m a Math teacher, so English is far from my specialty, but I’m fairly hog certain that ‘categorizability’ is not a word. I love it when moon makes up words. Not that I can follow anything he says anyways.
"There is a small, but important difference between peeing in the pool and peeing into the pool." - Demitri Martin
by Browns town on Aug 27, 2011 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I believe he’s bi-polar. One day, his comments make sense and are relatively easy to follow; the next day, it’s the above ranting. Good stuff.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
by Dawg Nuts on Aug 27, 2011 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Multiple aspects that form the collective that is Mooncamping. Ever see full Metal Alchemist? I see him like one of the homunculus from that anime.
cautiously realistic
by North Coast Flea on Aug 27, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I prefer to think of him as the old pony who got kicked out of a “salt lick bar” in one of the “My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic” episodes.
Only thing manlier than football? Ponies.
by BrownDawg1409 on Aug 27, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe he is an experiment in AI
by HenryDawg on Aug 27, 2011 2:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’ve always harbored suspicions that moon is a close relative of Al Davis, if not Al himself.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Aug 27, 2011 3:58 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
I just started watching that show a few weeks ago. Already about 18 episodes in
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
It gets really good the farther in you go.
cautiously realistic
by North Coast Flea on Aug 27, 2011 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
What kind of dork are you? Do you have to throw diminutives around to feel better about yourself?
by mooncamping on Aug 28, 2011 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
True. But I found the second part of the definition of neologism to be VERY humorous considering the context:
1. A new word, usage, or expression.
2. A meaningless word coined by a psychotic.
"There is a small, but important difference between peeing in the pool and peeing into the pool." - Demitri Martin
by Browns town on Aug 28, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How are you smart enough to know that word, yet still think Abe Elam is good?
by Bernie19Kosar on Aug 28, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Green Bay lost tons of starters last year and still got it done.
Bottom line is that you always have to be building through the draft. Your success in rounds 4-7 is as important as rounds 1-3.
Roster cuts coming soon – we still have one more opportunity to possibly fill a couple holes (and still have plenty of cap space if I’m not mistaken…). I saw someone use this phrase on another blog (thought it was pretty funny – the guy kept using it over and over)…
“dumpster diving” around other teams facilities seems to be something our H&H duo are better at than most.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Aug 27, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
This will get addresses on September 5th…
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Aug 27, 2011 12:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Pu the youngerster in there and see how he does. Pinkston will be fine once he gets more reps. If Thomas and Mack were not there I would say differently, but fortunately both are there.
I don’t know where this confidence in a fifth round pick comes from.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Aug 27, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve been surprised by how well he’s played, no doubt. But I still don’t know if I’m confident that he would make a passable starter all year.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Aug 27, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Not that i have any metrics fro this, but it seems to me that he’s been playing pretty well there so far. Unless there’s someone better ready to plug in, I say let him keep at it. Having the draft picks fill in for injured starters is part of the building-through-the-draft process. Maybe he’ll get even better with experience and we’ll find out that we have another young body to build upon.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I think I would prefer to see what Greco can do. He’s got more NFL experience and by some accounts was one of the better lineman on his team last year.
Of course, I’m not in practice and I’m not watching tape, so if the coaches think the rookie is better I won’t argue.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Aug 28, 2011 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Pinkston will be fine
Hope and a prayer, but Gawd I hope you’re right.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Aug 27, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
On the Tribe: I can’t believe we got Thome back.
cautiously realistic
by North Coast Flea on Aug 27, 2011 1:19 PM EDT reply actions
To put butts in seats (which is working) in September for a non contender needing to pay for Ubaldo’s contract (Ubaldo is spanish for “bp pitcher” btw).
The snozberries taste like snozberries!
This is all kinds of wrong. If you would allow me to dig in to my inner LGT here:
Ubaldo is on an extremely team friendly contract. If I were him I would be pissed at my agent for letting me sign it. He’s under contract for two years after this one. He’s had a down year, but he is still an above average pitcher, even during the worst season of his career. His ERA is up but all of his peripherals are as good or better than years past. The only difference is a slight drop in velocity, which can be partially attributed to injuries he’s been dealing with all season.
The indians are not totally out of the race yet. There is still a lot of baseball to be played. Thome essentially replaces Hafner in the lineup and cost us next to nothing. It’s a move that improves the team at basically no cost. Since there is still a real shot at making the playoffs, the move is really a no-brainer.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Aug 27, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Having seen Ubaldo out here in person, I was worried about his throwing motion. I don’t know a whole lot about baseball throwing motions, but the transition from wind-up to throw seemed not very smooth and borderline painful. Dude can throw hard, though.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Yeah his motion is weird, but teams are hesitant to mess with a guy’s motion if he has really good stuff, and Ubaldo has that.
He hasn’t had any serious injuries and he’s coming out of what is referred to as the “injury nexus,” the ages where pitchers are most likely to sustain major injuries. His health is a concern but not really any more than any other pitcher.
More of a concern is that his mechanics aren’t repeatable, which can contribute to his meltdowns.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Aug 28, 2011 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
you obviously didn’t see Ubaldo’s start last night because he pitched a gem. his stuff is nowhere near “bp pitcher” he has just not been hitting his spots well recently and it doesn’t help that he doesn’t yet know the strengths and weaknesses of the AL batters. I’ve seen some good pitches go for hits that were just pitched where the hitter probably likes it.
Ubaldo’s stuff is incredible, he had 10 Ks last night, he just needs to settle down. I think with a full offseason and this half season to get used to it, he can be a dominant #2 next year.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I think with a full offseason and this half season to get used to it, he can be a dominant #2 next year.
Then the Indians will have to trade him. Just like Sabathia, Lee, etc.
The MLB blows.
by Bernie19Kosar on Aug 27, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
He has two years left on his contract, and there might actually be an option for a third year, but I’m not sure that made it through the trade.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Aug 27, 2011 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe the option for the 3rd year is now Ubaldo’s, whereas it wa a club option pre-trade.
I love baseball, and I love the Tribe … but Bernie’s right, MLB blows.
by DontCallMeJoey on Aug 27, 2011 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks, I remember there being confusion about that.
Hey I won’t argue that the current structure of the MLB sucks. But it’s not like the indians can’t ever keep a good player for more than four months.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Aug 27, 2011 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
But it’s not like the indians can’t ever keep a good player for more than four months.
That was hyperbole. But as a former huge baseball fan, I grew tired of following kids from draft pick, through the minors to the majors just to watch them leave because the Indians can’t pay them what other teams can. It’s not worth my time to follow such a flawed system. It doesn’t reward teams or the fans. It’s sad really.
I still love baseball, got a job with the local Northwoods League team this season and had a blast. To be around the game everyday this summer really helped in getting through the lockout.
But for the MLB, I’m done with it until they have some sort of checks and balances for just outspending the other teams. I respect the fans that stick with it, I really do, I’m just down with it.
by Bernie19Kosar on Aug 27, 2011 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m for putting Pinkston in.
Sandwiching him between Mack and Thomas alleviates some of my fears. I’m not sure he is going to be good, but we should have a good idea pretty soon.
Agree. If we were putting him on the right side, I would be more concerned, but between Thomas and Mack, they can pick up the slack. Plus, even though the kid is a rookie, he’s shown some talent and he’s learning from the best O-lineman in the league.
Come on Marecic, get in front of the damn ball! Don't give me this "olé" bullsht!
Yea I also believe Pinkston has been playing well for being a 5th round pick. Even the coaches have been pleasantly surprised with him.
I still think the Ubaldo trade was terrible. Pomeranz will be a stud I know it and Alex White is already pitching in the Bigs and proved that he is a viable pitcher already. I don’t know if he will ever be better than a number 2 or 3 guy but he is a good pitcher. He will only get better also. I believe we way over paid as look what we got for CC and CC is still a cy young candidate every year. We got Brantley ok, LaPorta (bust), and then two pitchers in our AA still. The Cliff Lee trade wasn’t much better either. I just think we made a terrible trade for Ubaldo.
TINSTAAPP
There is no such thing as a pitching prospect. I hate to get into a baseball debate on DBN, but trying to project a pitching prospect is like trying to project a college sophmore at a mid-major. they have a ton of work to do and the difference in who they play is tremendous. Alex White is already pitching in the bigs, but he could flame out easily and be adam miller. He also hasn’t proven anything on a large sample size. Pomeranz I like, but he is young and still hasn’t pitched past AA
I believe we way over paid as look what we got for CC and CC is still a cy young candidate every year.
We are also getting 2.5 years of Ubaldo with a possible 3rd year option. The Brewers got C.C. for a half a year rental, and the Phillies got Cliff Lee for a 1.5 year rental and he was already 30.
Ubaldo as a pure trade asset is worth significantly more than either of them ever were and I am not sure if the Indians think Alex White has a lot of potential as a starter and may think he is a bullpen arm.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
proved that he is a viable pitcher already.
You got that from fifteen innings?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Aug 27, 2011 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Pomeranz has one start where he went longer than six innings, and most were shorter than five. He only has two pitches. He’s never pitched above double A. He got a season ending injury in his first pro season.
The guy has tons of potential, but to think he’s anything close to a sure thing is just wrong.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Aug 27, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Last to talk about the Indians then back to the Browns.
But you guys are quick to say Jimenez is a beast. He has had one great half of a season. Before and after that he has been a good number 3 pitcher according to his stats. I mean he has had 5 starts with us. 2 have been really good the other 3 were far from good. I am just not sure how I feel about it. I will always cheer for him now that he is an Indian because I am a die hard Cleveland fan. But I am not ready to say it was a good trade. That is all. I respect your guys’ thoughts
Ubaldo Jiminez ERA+ for each season before this one: 112, 118, 136, 162
This year it’s 94, and 102 in Colorado. Keep in mind those seasons are when he was 23-26. This shows a clear progression. He may not be the 162 ERA+ pitcher every year, but considering his peripherals he’s much closer to that than the 94 ERA+ guy or even the 112 ERA+ guy.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Aug 27, 2011 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
we always overrate our own prospects. white and pom may be good, but ubaldo is legitimate ace material. the window for the indians right now is 2011-2013/14 before the next complete reboot. they had to get someone to help for that period, and ubaldo is a dead lock to contribute more during that period than white and pom combined.
another reason it’s a good trade is that the indians finally showed some guts, which they almost never did under shapiro. they needed front-line rotation help, and they went and got the best pitcher on the market. i love that. it shows a commitment to contending and winning that shapiro never really demonstrated.
by DontCallMeJoey on Aug 29, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Nurse13’s mention of Pinkston being a 5th rounder got me thinking: Is that really such a late round for a guard? That’s not rhetorical, by the way. I’m asking.
Sorry for not hitting the reply button, but there was a bunch of baseball trash in the way.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
by JustBob on Aug 28, 2011 6:00 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
No, it isn’t. Guard is a position that NFL teams don’t seem to value too much. You have to be a pretty ridiculous prospect to be a 1st round guard (Iupati).
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
yep. just as an example, there were 4 guards taken in the 5th and 6th rounds in ‘08. 2 haven’t done much but the other 2 are starters including a pro bowler in Carl Nicks.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

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