Cleveland Browns Training Camp Report: Day 10 - Two Minute Stall
I attended Monday morning's practice and took some good notes. Unfortunately, when I arrived home, when I turned my computer on, the fans were blowing loudly and non-stop like jet engines, and the computer would not boot. I tried all of the troubleshooting techniques I know of, but none of them worked. It might be a power supply issue, so I'm working on getting a new one. After being frustrated with that all day, I'm still going to try to deliver a report from today's session.
Forgive me for any typos, the computer I'm on now has a monitor that makes it look like I'm looking through a pair of glasses that are the opposite of what I'm supposed to wear. Also, I'll try to add a photo or two Tuesday morning.
TRAINING CAMP REPORT - DAY 10 (8/8/11)
- Perfect Weather Day: I don't think the players or fans will have a better day weather-wise the rest of training camp. As a fan, one of the worst parts of camp has been having the sun melting me as I stand still for the duration of practice. Monday was different -- I'd say there was cloud cover for about 80% of practice, and that definitely made practice a lot easier to sit through. This also seemed to be the most attended camp of the three I've been to in Berea, which surprised me considering it had been raining a little bit just prior to the session.
- Early Nightmare Avoided: One of the first thing teams went through were the position drills. Right in front of me were the quarterbacks, and the first thing they were doing was practicing their drop step left, then right, then left, then right, etc. for a good chunk of yardage. The first time that Colt McCoy did it, I saw an equipment bag had been left near midfield. Sure enough, McCoy was backing up fast, and was about two-three strides away from the equipment bag. I thought to myself, "oh god, I'm going to witness an end to McCoy right here." Thankfully, one of the assistants yelled, "hey, watch out for that bag, McCoy," which promoted him to stop. He turned around and looked at the bag as an equipment manager moved it out of the way. Disaster averted, whew.
- Joe Haden, Jordan Norwood Return: It was good to see cornerback Joe Haden participating fully in drills again. The same goes for wide receiver Jordan Norwood, who was back to playing the slot with the first team offense. You can add defensive end Marcus Benard to the list of players who returned too, although he never ended up missing a full practice after hurting his knee Saturday at the stadium.
- Third String Lowlights: I usually like to highlight players, but unfortunately, I need to point out some of the "lowlights" from players who really don't have that great of a chance at making the team. Quarterback Troy Weatherhead could not throw the ball to the chest of an assistant coach in a simple drill early in practice. On two occasions, he threw the ball well over the guy's head. In terms of accuracy, he is clearly separated from the other quarterbacks, and not in a good way. Running back Armond Smith had two drops in an offense-only drill, and so did fullback Tyler Clutts.
- Jackson > Hardesty: Based on what I've seen from Brandon Jackson so far, I've drawn this conclusion: Montario Hardesty should probably be the third running back to start off the season. Jackson has been one of the team's best receivers in camp. The team especially ran a lot of drills with him today in which he started in the backfield and did a wheel route to the sideline. On one play, there was tight coverage on Jackson but he kept his concentration and hauled in a perfect pass by Seneca Wallace. It's hard to gauge how well Jackson will run against a live defense, but he's getting good work in during some two-back sets.
- Formation I'm Liking: I liked seeing the offense run this play in offense-only drills: fullback Owen Marecic lines up behind Colt McCoy, and Peyton Hillis lines up to the right of Marecic. On the snap, McCoy goes for a playfake, Hillis runs the wheel, and Marecic blocks the direction McCoy rolls. McCoy then fires a pass down the sideline to Hillis. If the defenders come up on that play, Hillis (or whoever else we put in that situation) have the hands to catch the ball down the field.
- Mulligan, Please? There was an ugly portion of practice, and with a veteran like Seneca Wallace under center, I feel more inclined to blame the people he's playing with. On one play, about six offensive guys jumped early for a false start. On the next play, the quarterback/center exchange resulted in a fumble. Wallace picked it up and had to throw it away.
- Hurry Up Drill: For about two minutes of practice, the Browns ran a drill in which the offense ran one quick passing play and they raced off the field as the field goal unit rushed on to the field. They would quickly set up and get the kick off as soon as possible. After that, regular field goal kicking was worked on, with the crowd in awe any time Dawson's kicks hit the camera lift.
- Moore Leads All: I think Evan Moore is the best receiver on the team. I am really high on this guy, maybe even more so than I used to be on Jerome Harrison. Moore delivered another good practice session on Monday, as he was no match for the defenders he was up against. He is one of the few players who works with the first-team offense and the second-team offense.
- Another Good Tight End: It should also be known that tight end Alex Smith has been catching everything thrown his way, and most of the stuff he is getting is 10-15 yards down the field. That was the case during the Saturday practice too. He is getting a lot of reps with Jordan Cameron still resting. With Smith being considered a good blocker, I still stand by the fact that we'll keep four tight ends.
- Regular Series: Each offensive unit had a chance to have a regular series against a defensive unit, with no real crunch on time in effect. The first-team defense faced the second-team offense (led by Seneca Wallace) to kick things off. The first-team offense won that easily, as they forced a three-and-out.
Up next was Colt McCoy and the first-team offense against the second-team defense. The first play was a handoff for 6 yards, followed by a nice pass to Ben Watson for 14 yards and a first down. On the next play, Peyton Hillis rumbled forward for a 15-yard gain. The next play was a quick slant to Greg Little...who dropped it. More on Little in the next bullet point. The next pass was a pass catchable, but also ahead of Cribbs, who couldn't haul it in. On third down, McCoy threw it to Owen Marecic in the flat. It would've been a gain for about five yards, but a defender came in and knocked the ball away.
Last up was the third-string offense (led by Jarrett Brown) versus the third-string defense. There were only two plays allowed. Jarrett Brown made a low throw over the middle to Evan Frosch that fell incomplete. On the next play, Brown way overshot Juan Nunez down the field.
- Disappointed in Little: With this being the first year I've attended a training camp, it's not a good thing to see Greg Little consistently having so many drops on passes that are right at him. Most of the time I see him drop the ball, it looks like it's in a position where he expects to catch the ball and get ready to head up the field. It's not that he takes his eyes off the ball, but it looks like the anticipation factor might get in the way. He seems better when he knows he's already in the end zone and there's no where else to go. Little had about three more drops on Monday, a step back from Saturday.
- Two Minute Drills: Toward the end of practice, the two-minute drills were run. First-teamers against first-teamers, and so on. There was 50 seconds on the clock to start each drill, and the offense started at midfield with one timeout. Here is how each unit did:
- Two Minute Drill (First Teamers):
1st-and-10 @ 50, 0:50: McCoy throws to Hillis in the flat for 5 yards.
2nd-and-5 @ 45, 0:45: McCoy throws a deep out to Watson, but it falls incomplete.
3rd-and-5 @ 45, 0:39: McCoy hits Moore for 5 yards and a first down.
1st-and-10 @ 40, 0:22: McCoy is sacked for a loss of 5 yards. Timeout called. Should've called a timeout after Moore's completion.
2nd-and-15 @ 45, 0:15: McCoy's pass appears to be tipped, target unknown. Incomplete.
3rd-and-15 @ 45, 0:10: McCoy hits Moore, who gets pushed out of bounds after a gain of 14 yards. They might have given him a first down, but the next play is the last anyway due to time.
4th-and-1 @ 31, 0:04: McCoy gives Robiskie a chance in the end zone on a good attempt, but Sheldon Brown is there to defend the pass and knock it away.
- Two Minute Drill (Second Teamers):
1st-and-10 @ 50, 0:50: Wallace passes to Jackson in the flat for no gain. They waste a TON of time getting the next play off.
2nd-and-10 @ 50, 0:30: Wallace throws the ball to Clutts for a 6 yard gain, but still in bounds.
3rd-and-4 @ 44, 0:11: Wallace throws to Jackson in the flat for 3 yards. Timeout called.
4th-and-1 @ 41, 0:06: It's Hail Mary time. Wallace heaves the ball into the end zone. No receivers are there yet, and James Dockery intercepts it for a touchback.
- Two Minute Drill (Third Teamers):
1st-and-10 @ 50, 0:50: Brown fires the ball to Castile for 27 yards. They run up quick enough to keep things rolling.
1st-and-10 @ 23, 0:30: Brown goes for the kill and tries to hit Matthews in the end zone, but he can't haul it in.
2nd-and-10 @ 23, 0:23: Brown hits Windsor for a gain of 10 yards. He got out of bounds too.
1st-and-10 @ 13, 0:18: Brown drops back, has no where to go, and is sacked. Timeout called.
2nd-and-16 @ 19, 0:11: Brown throws it out of the back of the end zone in Windsor's direction.
3rd-and-16 @ 19, 0:06: Probably one play left. Brown throws it to the left corner of the end zone for Matthews. He tries to one hand the ball but it's incomplete. He complains that he was interfered with. They give it to him -- ball is placed at the one yard line with the clocks at 0:00.
1st-and-goal @ 1, 0:00: Brown rolls out and has the option to run. He takes it himself and scores from a yard out. Success!
- Goal Line Plays: I could not see this from where I was at, so I'll quote what Tony Grossi said about it:
"On the Browns' first goal-line play today, right guard Shawn Lauvao got the better of defensive tackle Phil Taylor and Peyton Hillis plunged over for the touchdown. Later in the series, No. 4 tight end Alex Smith had two sliding catches."
- Brownies: It looked like Jarrett Brown might have been leading a scout-team offense (as Green Bay) during one-stretch of practice since he was facing the first-team defense...after some early drops, there was one weird stretch of practice where Tyler Clutts was targeted successfully on three straight plays...Chris Matthews has too many drops for his liking, I'm not sure if I'd even put him on the practice squad...Grossi notes that LB Chris Gocong had to leave practice with a stinger but should be fine.
Monday's Link Collection / Camp Sources
- Cleveland Browns training camp, August 8 (National Football Authority, Wolf)
- DE Marcus Benard needs to drop some weight (Plain Dealer, Grossi)
- Browns training camp log, Day 10 (Plain Dealer, Cabot)
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I am not a Little fan and have been harsh on him – but I definitely do not think it is time to panic on the drops. He had a full year off, so I will give him until the final preseason game before I worry.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
definitely agree. With rookies, reps and experience are all that matters, after that is when you see what these guys become. I don’t have the expectation that Little will become a great wideout, but his body of work throughout his short career (minus last years little, teensy weensy mishap) gives me confidence that he’ll be able to adjust. He just needs to work out the jitters.
by Dammit Cerrato... on Aug 9, 2011 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Little will drop at least one big would-be catch this year. I don’t think that’s call for panic.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
You either know how to catch a ball or you don’t. Little has played WR for one year out of his entire life and he has too Little experience(pun intended) for his draft position and expectations.
The NFL is the place for honing skills, not developing them
by The Licensed Pessimist on Aug 9, 2011 1:59 AM EDT reply actions
I still think your assertion that you can’t improve as a ball catcher is baseless, makes no sense on an intuitive level, and may be downright scientifically inaccurate.
What proof/argument/reason for saying such do you have that you can’t get better at catching a ball?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I do tend to believe ‘ball catching skill’ is probably one of the most difficult skills to make big improvements on and in that sense I think LP makes a valid point. But LP says “The NFL is the place for honing skills, not developing them”, but this is not the case with Little.
As LP points out, Little has only one year of WR experience. He is a raw talent. So yes, this is where he will be developing AND honing his skills.
It is still just one week into practice. Lets give him a couple more weeks of reps before we start getting too concerned. If you put Robert Royal out there, it would bounce right off of him every time day in and day out. With Little, I’m hearing he’s been on and off. Evidently he’s had some good days and some bad days. I think there’s a good chance some of Little’s dropsies may be a confidence issue as much as it is a “not good hands” issue. And confidence is something that can definitely be improved upon with experience.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Aug 9, 2011 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. This is an entirely new offense for Little and he’s only a week in. He didn’t play at all last year. Little is most likely just over-thinking things right now and needs to build up some confidence and get comfortable in this offense.
Alcohol abuse and Cleveland sports fans: hand-in-hand since 1955.
We aren’t talking about guys who have never seen or been thrown a football before here. We are talking about a guy who does this.
No coaches would waste their time with guys who had less than excellent hands if you couldn’t improve at catching the ball. No coaches would waste time doing catching drills if you couldn’t improve at catching the ball.
If someone is horrible at catching, are they going to become Kellen Winslow? Probably not. Can they slowly reduce the number of drops they have per 16 games over the course of their career? I don’t see why not.
If you want to talk about Little in particular, he is trying to catch and turn upfield quickly because he is hearing about how YAC is important to the offense, about how he was brought in here to lower his shoulder and run Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu over. He hasn’t developed his hands to the point where he can start thinking about getting upfield before actually making the catch. It isn’t confidence with this kid.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Eric Berry blatantly interfered with Little on that bomb at 2:45. the refs missed that one big time.
Yvan Eht Nioj.
by Brownsbacker488 on Aug 9, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I noticed that too. Also, 1:21 ans 1:59 worry me a little about his character. If I had just plowed a guy on his ass like that on the sideline I would have at least helped him get up, instead he just goes about his business like the guy doesn’t exist. The little hissy fits anytime he doesn’t get the ball are uncool too. The other thing about the catch at 1:59 where he caught the back of the ball was it looked to me like he was out of bounds, unless you only need one foot in bounds in college. I don’t pretend to know college rules.
cautiously realistic
by North Coast Flea on Aug 9, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
The punt is a big deal to me. That’s 15 yards on the kickoff and that hurts any team. The out of bounds thing doesn’t bother me that much. There was another game where he just mauled a guy and (maybe?) didn’t realize that he messed his leg up pretty bad. Little decided to talk a LOT of trash in the guy’s face when he was still on the ground.
Little has said he’s matured, and this stuff is from two years ago. If he pulls this kind of crap in CBS, I am willing to jump off his bandwagon really quickly.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
It isn’t confidence with this kid
Maybe confidence isn’t the best choice of words – but the point I’m making is that the problem with him isn’t necessarily that he can’t catch, but rather he needs to get better oriented with his routes, timing, etc. Everyone’s still working on getting in sync – and this is probably the more likely cause of his “dropsies” (i.e. its not necessarily because he doesn’t have good hands).
I think we’re essentially making the same point. And I do think that as he develops his timing and route running, and with experience he will become more confident, which will almost always result in improvement for any player / position.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Aug 9, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
This I think disproves any ‘bad hands’ theory
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GV3KM552ERg
But then we also see the immaturity he possesses.
by Dammit Cerrato... on Aug 9, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Little sometimes drops passes he should catch, and it’s been a trend since college. The newness of it all certainly isn’t helping, but this is a real issue.
It probably won’t ever go away completely but he can cut way down on them if he decides to really work at it.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
that was the same way with TJ Houshmenblablah. he was a terrible receiver his first couple seasons and Cinci was about to cut him a couple years before they actually did and that’s when he became a solid WR and stopped dropping numerous balls. it can certainly be done. Little just needs to practice like Torry Holt did with the mechanical tosser.
Yvan Eht Nioj.
by Brownsbacker488 on Aug 9, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
By your same logic, a basketball player should be able to make every shot he takes, either he knows how to sink a shot or he doesn’t.
You can’t expect Little to be a Mike Williams or Andre Johnson immediately. He’s a rookie with HUGE upside and we haven’t even played a preseason game.
Your name suits you.
"Samir Nagama, Nagama, Na-Not gonna work here anymore anyways!'
by BrownsFanfromthe808 on Aug 9, 2011 3:52 AM EDT up reply actions
thats very true about basketball. Even Lebron wasn’t a great shooter coming out. A guy off the top of my head who developed great hands would be Roddy White.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
That’s not my logic, I’m talking about football
by The Licensed Pessimist on Aug 9, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
wait, if you can’t learn to catch the ball then by your logic the “QB to WR” experiments never work. Josh Cribbs may not be a great WR but he has solid hands. There are better examples too. Gene Washington was a pro bowler WR who played QB in college. Same for Anquan Boldin and (gag) Hines Ward who both have good hands.
There are many others I could name and this is just the “QB to WR” experiment (as opposed to some QB to DB ones) and doesn’t include HS QBs who converted in college and developed good hands.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Antwan Randel-El
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
wait, if you can’t learn to catch the ball then by your logic the "QB to WR" experiments never work.
I think his point might have been, that guys who have proven themselves to have bad hands don’t usually improve in that area.
Mangini apologist by default.
I also pointed out above that an example of that would be Roddy White
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I like hearing Lauvao get the better of Taylor. Makes me think he’s improved dramatically from last year and that we actually haver top notch O line talent found at low risk.
Pittsburgh is just jealous. We got Cudi and they have Wiz.
Nate Ulrich wrote an article for the Akron Beacon Journal talking about Lauvao’s improvements this season. A point that caught my eye, Lauvao (23) completed his masters degree this offseason. Wow.
makes me feel pretty lousy that i don’t have a single college credit to my name at 23. but that’s soon going to change.
Yvan Eht Nioj.
by Brownsbacker488 on Aug 9, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I really believe our OL is going to be the most impressive aspect of our team this year. That is if they stay healthy…which is indeed rare.
The Drive, The Fumble, The Shot and The Decision define me. I live, die and breathe Cleveland Sports. The Browns will make us proud some day. When that day comes...I will be complete.
There was an ugly portion of practice, and with a veteran like Seneca Wallace under center, I feel more inclined to blame the people he’s playing with.
There’s a lyric in a song i like that goes
“You’re not a vet. you’re just old.”
Mangini apologist by default.
he’s 31. that’s not too old for a NFL QB.
Yvan Eht Nioj.
by Brownsbacker488 on Aug 9, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Well it doesn’t sound pretty, but I’m going to wait til they all have a few weeks of practice reps under their belts (with having to learn brand spanking new schemes, routes, 4-3 formations, terminology, etc.) before I start getting too worked up. I do have to say though – the thought of the Packers coming to town Saturday night… really exciting but also a bit unnerving :-/
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Aug 9, 2011 8:54 AM EDT reply actions
Only reason to be nervous is because someone might get injured. Otherwise, pre-season games mean almost nothing, especially the first one. I know if the Browns get clobbered on Sat. a lot of people will freak out but really they shouldn’t.
I’m leaning towards the fact we probably will get clobbered on Saturday. New offense, new defense, new implementation at live game speed…they all add up to this game being a big learning lesson for us.
"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden
Oh yeah. Also, SB champs across the line. But who cares?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
1st stringers won’t play more than a series, but I realize GB is deep. I think we’ll be competitive.
Didn’t they keep there starters in waaaay after we switched to out 2s last year?
cautiously realistic
by North Coast Flea on Aug 9, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree. I think you’re going to see 1st stringers play longer in the preseason this year. With such a shortened preseason, I think more preseason snaps need to be taken, especially since we’re looking at entirely new systems on both sides of the ball.
Alcohol abuse and Cleveland sports fans: hand-in-hand since 1955.
someone might get injured
This is one of my main concerns (re: my use of the term “unnerving”).
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Aug 9, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
A couple points from SI reports I read… Peter King mentioned that defenses have looked far better than offenses throughout the camps he visited – most offenses are bumbling along right now.
And out of 49ers camp, Braylon continues to drop passes in his first days with his new team. Even with all of his drops, teams are willing to pay the guy (heck, he turned down more money from AZ). I don’t know how it relates to Little, except for the talk about dropped passes.
All-in-all, the TEs and RBs look to be performing as hoped (Hardesty excluded), and the OLine looks to be coming together.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Aug 9, 2011 9:10 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
most offenses are bumbling along right now.
i assume this has a lot to do with the lockout. i’m sure it’s easier for coordinators to teach a defensive scheme compared to an offensive one.
Yvan Eht Nioj.
by Brownsbacker488 on Aug 9, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Why would that be true?
The things that have to go right for an offense to really click are just more difficult and more numerous. If both teams screw up, the defense usually wins.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I said this in another thread, but isn’t it pretty normal for defenses to be ahead of offenses early in camp?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
i don’t actually know because i’ve never experienced it, but i just figure most defenses aren’t as complex as most offenses especially when it comes to play calling. the terminology just seems a lot harder to understand for offensive players.
Yvan Eht Nioj.
by Brownsbacker488 on Aug 9, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
There is still a lot defenses have to adjust to after the snap. WCO terminology might sound like some NASA stuff, but they have to get a lot of things communicated in the huddle.
The defense will be calling/adjusting to strength of formation, the location of personnel, motion, etc. after they break the huddle.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Yes, defenses get a head start, which is exaggerated when the offenses have had no OTAs.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Aug 9, 2011 5:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Even with all of his drops, teams are willing to pay the guy
Uhh, no they are not. No guaranteed money at all for the guy. For someone with his talents, and even with his drops, he should be getting paid more. His attitude is clearly why he can’t get more money.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Aug 9, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
On one play, about six offensive guys jumped early for a false start.
This usually means the center got it wrong and forgot to snap the ball.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
no biggie really, just a heads up Chris.
The first-team offense won that easily, as they forced a three-and-out.
Yvan Eht Nioj.
by Brownsbacker488 on Aug 9, 2011 11:01 AM EDT reply actions
should be defense no offense
Yvan Eht Nioj.
by Brownsbacker488 on Aug 9, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
works either way.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Aug 9, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

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