Cleveland to Make Changes at the Wide Receiver Position Against Colts?
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 15, 2011 1:40 PM EDT
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PrintAfter listening to Cleveland Browns head coach Pat Shurmur on Wednesday, I got the impression that a couple of changes might be coming at the wide receiver position in terms of who sees playing time. From Shurmur:
(On sorting out the receiver position)- "I made the comment that we were going to play all the receivers that were active and we did that. I think we’re learning about the receivers and even though you see them operate in practice and in preseason games, I’m getting a better feel for those guys now that we’ve seen one real full game. We’ll change the groupings around a little bit. I wouldn’t say we’re going to play one guy more than the other, but guys that need to touch the football, Josh (Cribbs) needs to touch the football, Greg Little needs to touch the ball, there’s a place for Brian Robiskie to touch it and I think Mo (Mohamed Massaquoi) showed up. I went into the game not knowing how much Mo could handle in terms of the workload and he had quite a few snaps. I’m forgetting exactly off hand how many, but it was a little bit of a challenge for him just because he hadn’t had a bunch of practice. We’ll get him more and more as well."
Five wide receivers played against the Cincinnati Bengals this past Sunday. The receiver who saw the most snaps was Greg Little. He was followed by Brian Robiskie, Mohamed Massaquoi, Joshua Cribbs, and Jordan Norwood, in that order. The top two receivers (in terms of snaps), Little and Robiskie, combined for just one catch. Besides Massaquoi, none of the other receivers were really able to get into a groove either.
Is there anyone here that things the snap totals should be somewhat reversed in the future? I think Cribbs is our best wide receiver right now, and he showed against the Bengals that his quickness and side-to-side movement is much-improved from a year ago. Norwood is probably the only receiver who can make a move in the open field to get yards after the catch. Massaquoi seems consistently average, which isn't a bad thing.
Shurmur's comment about Robiskie seemed somewhat telling, although maybe I'm just reading too much into things. "There's a place for Brian Robiskie to touch the ball." I agree with that statement, because there is a place for him against some of the lesser cornerbacks in the league on pass plays. This is his third season, and for all of the assets that Robiskie seems to have (i.e. good hands, good chemistry with Colt McCoy, etc), the fact is that his production is not translating to gameday. One reader over at the OBR did make an interesting case to say that Robiskie was doing well as a blocker. Shurmur later responded to questions about Robiskie:
(On what Brian Robiskie brings to the offense)- "I think he’s a very steady guy. It’s very rare you see him make a mistake and I appreciate that. He has good hands. He will catch the football and in the preseason you saw he found a way to separate. That’s what he gives us."
(On Brian Robiskie having no catches in first game)- "Catches tend to come in bunches and this might be a game this week where he catches five."
When it comes to Little, there's nothing wrong with playing the guy, but it's still a bit surprising to see him get the most snaps. Is there any chance we'll see a sign of Carlton Mitchell this week to mix up the personnel groupings?
Despite what Shurmur said, my guess is that we'll end up seeing more of the same groupings of what we saw against Cincinnati, and that Shurmur will just rely on better execution being the difference maker this week.
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Seeing more of Little wouldn’t be a bad thing, kid has some talent & needs to be given a chance to mature. That said all our WR’s need to step it up a bit, seperation is something they all need to work on.
Madden 12 does not have bugs, it has dyslexia & tourettes.
More? Most snaps with one catch, he can mature on the sideline. Focus on Cribbs and Momass in two TE sets.
by darthVictor13 on Sep 15, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Considering they are our best receiving assets and our glaring problem at right tackle, I was surprised the Browns didn’t use double TE sets more often.
by ouched on Sep 15, 2011 2:22 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Cribbs to me is more like a TE in the way he plays the position. Other than Quick slants, he does not have a good first quick step…but we all know what he does once he gets rolling. Did anyone else feel the best play we had was the return game at a certain point in Sunday’s game? He is more dangerous after the catch, problem is shaking the CB to make that catch.
Little is our future, play him all the time.
Newsflash…another rebuilding year as we get ready for another draft and free agency (which we did not do well at given all the cash we had available).
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
Little is our future, play him all the time.
Totally agree here
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 15, 2011 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I see what you are saying about Little, but everyone here is young and anyone could be the future. While Little seems to have the most potential, finding someone who can consistently bring in the catches and production should be the main goal. Maybe someone whose watched the 1st game again can correct me, but Little did not stand out to me, and when I did notice him he was completely shut down.
I think Colt was the problem there…he was too busy getting himself and AMack some receptions, :)
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Sep 15, 2011 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly we couldn’t see what was going on most of the time unless there was a PBU or completion and they went to it on replay. It’s hard for me to look at WRs and McCoy’s reads unless the play is under 10 yards on the game broadcast.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I think Cribbs is more of a HB. Swing pass and sweaps should be the norm for him. Think Metcalf and how the Browns used him.We need a change of pace back and that should be Cribbs. He has issues getting off the line swing/screens would solve that issue and give him the chance to break one. Cribbs needs the ball in hand to make something happen HB would be the best way for that to happen.
by Brownsfan4ever on Sep 15, 2011 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
This. He was effective as a Wildcat option, but the problem there was that everybody and his Mom knew it was coming. If we lined Cribbs up as halfback with Hillis/Hardesty/Marecic also in the backfield, it wouldn’t be a given that he was getting the ball each time he was there. Plus, dude can block. Not a bad idea.
by chitown browns fan on Sep 16, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
And by block, I mean in pass protection specifically should we go play action.
by chitown browns fan on Sep 16, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
The cash we had available we used to sign some of our core players.Plus nobody was under the assumption that we were going to contend this year .So why throw money at free agency ,if you know you are going to finish middle of the road in conference?
How can it be the battle of Ohio When the Bungles are from KENTUCKY?
by ctowndawgpound on Sep 17, 2011 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions
well, typically free agents sign for more than a single year.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 19, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think it matters if Jerry Rice is running routes for us, if Colt doesn’t have time to get off a good throw it doesn’t matter. Fix the right tackle spot and it will be a snowball effect of positive outcomes.
The place for Robiskie to touch the ball is on the bench keeping Dawson’s warmup ball ready.
by Roger Dorn on Sep 15, 2011 3:54 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
He may be able to dry off wet balls going into games where it’s raining and snowing too, give the guy a little credit.
He may be able to dry off wet balls going into games where it’s raining and snowing too,
Too slow.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 15, 2011 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
He is a great blocker, and did show that in the last game. I think if we didn’t have Cribbs as a necessity at slot then we would probably see more of Robo there.
I have no interest in playing a wr because he can block. Isn’t that what we tried doing with Royal at TE?
Mangini apologist by default.
He is a great blocker, and did show that in the last game.
play him at TE then. Blocking doesn’t involve touching the ball anyways.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
How is Cribbs our best receiver when he has done nothing at the position? Sunday the only receiver who did a thing was MoMass and even he was unspectacular. Less Cribbs, more Mitchell, Norwood, Little.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Sep 15, 2011 3:58 PM EDT reply actions
How is Cribbs our best receiver when he has done nothing at the position?
That tells you how low the standard is.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 15, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I would say Cribbs has shown the willingness to go fight for a ball in air. He also has speed and cutting ability with which it is likely to assume he has some sort of separation ability. Lastly, from preseason he showed that if a play is broken he can find a opening in the field within McCoys vision so he can get some yards. If it were up to me, I would have Cribbs with MoMass starting, then Little, Mitchell, and Norwood (in that order) coming off the bench. Mitchell might still be out with his finger fx though. Also, Moore needs some more time at WR/TE… 10 pass plays arent cutting it with him.
When you put the way Shurmur talks into actual print, it always reads very awkwardly.
I wouldn’t say we’re going to play one guy more than the other, but guys that need to touch the football, Josh needs to touch the football, Greg Little needs to touch the ball, there’s a place for Brian Robiskie to touch it and I think Mo showed up.
"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert
When I listened to the press conference I took the impression that everyone was a work in progress but it also sounded like Robo was singled out the way he said it. It makes me think he’s not to big on Robiskie.
Im tickled pink that we are all in agreement that it is indeed a good thing that our WRs at some point touch the football during games.
Our standards for our WR seem to be ‘showing up.’
I suppose it’s good they’re present and punctual…at least off the field.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 15, 2011 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
After the next game we might actually graduate to expecting our WR’s to run up the field without falling over themselves.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Sep 15, 2011 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
And hopefully they’ll be making cuts sometime next year.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 15, 2011 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
The FO or the WRs?
I really don’t really think... - Tom Heckert
by North Coast Flea on Sep 15, 2011 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
if the WRs don’t the FO will
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
by bross09 on Sep 15, 2011 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
whoa, someone’s getting ahead of themselves
by The Licensed Pessimist on Sep 15, 2011 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
A guy can dream…
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 16, 2011 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions
The reason I quoted this has less to do with what he’s actually trying to get across and more the fact that the way Shurmur speaks is really strange when reading a transcript.
"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert
I suppose that’s a possibility. That’s a possibility. It’s possible that is the case, I suppose.
"I want my unwarranted optimism back." -Dilbert
I didn’t care how Mangini did in front of the media, I don’t care how Shurmur does. Win games.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I think you could say the same thing about most coaches (or athletes) when you read their words in a transcript.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 15, 2011 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
From your understandings of your understandings, correct?
Pittsburgh is just jealous. We got Cudi and they have Wiz.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 15, 2011 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
My understanding is that that was his understanding.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
This intellect is dizzying.
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is. -- Yogi Berra
by JustPlainBrowns on Sep 16, 2011 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Well wait till they get going!
I really don’t really think... - Tom Heckert
by North Coast Flea on Sep 16, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
more cowbell?
"You are the worst villains in football, your evil plan never ceases."-Mooncamping
by discoinferno083 on Sep 15, 2011 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I got a feva…
I really don’t really think... - Tom Heckert
by North Coast Flea on Sep 15, 2011 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s the only prescription. Lay it down right now.
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is. -- Yogi Berra
by JustPlainBrowns on Sep 15, 2011 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand, the only reason he should come off the field is if he needs a rest.
He never should come off to get Robo, MoMass or Cribbs reps. More Little.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 15, 2011 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
And then A Little Moore.
Pittsburgh is just jealous. We got Cudi and they have Wiz.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 15, 2011 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
With a Little Moore MoMass
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is. -- Yogi Berra
by JustPlainBrowns on Sep 15, 2011 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Then Robo needs to be Stuckeyed to the bench.
Pittsburgh is just jealous. We got Cudi and they have Wiz.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 15, 2011 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
In past years it seems like when Cribbs is running a lot of pass routes it diminishes his return game.
When teams kick the ball through the endzone every kickoff we have to find other ways to get the ball in his hands.
by Brocolis154033 on Sep 15, 2011 7:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He could hold for Phil on field goals and PATs.
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is. -- Yogi Berra
by JustPlainBrowns on Sep 15, 2011 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d like to see hardesty get some more snaps especially on 3rd downs. It was a small sample size but I liked what I saw from hardesty. I feel he’s got elusiveness and is a better option in passing situations and warrants more touches.
by Brocolis154033 on Sep 15, 2011 7:34 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I am on record as expecting virtual zero from Hardesty … And I found myself really pleasantly surprised with his effort this week. He looked pretty quick to the holes, decisive in his cuts … A marathon better than what we saw out of him in the preseason.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 15, 2011 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
He had a few very nice runs. Hopefully as he keeps getting back in the groove we’ll see more of that this season.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 15, 2011 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I would love to see him get 15 carries this weekend. Hillis can get his 25. Run them into the ground.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 16, 2011 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Way rather 40 carries than 40 throws.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 16, 2011 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
This. Colt had no business making 40 attempts. If he throws this much regularly I do not expect great thibs.
by Off-the-Chain on Sep 16, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
True, but the pass/run balance was much closer until we got down in the 4th quarter. Any time you’re trying to come back in a game you’re going to be passing almost every down so the ratio is a bit skewed.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 16, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
didn’t we only get down in the 4th quarter with like 5 minutes left?
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 16, 2011 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
4:30 left in the game – A.J. Green TD.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Sep 17, 2011 4:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but we had 2 or 3 drives after that which were almost exclusively passes. Before those drives the balance was much closer.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 17, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
yep. it was 3 drives. Colt had 12 pass attempts and no designed runs during this period (he had 1 scramble). Before that, he had 28 pass attempts and they had run the ball 25 times. only passing 53% of the time I think is around league average
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Receivers
Go with Mitchell, Norwood, Little since the rest havent did anything and shown no improvement. Run Hardesty more and even have Cribbs runing out of the backfield.
This probably won’t matter since the line is week, but just think we might not be to good
but we didnt sign any of those free agents and we saved money
These WRs are so freaking bad it’s painful. Any change at that position is good change.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 15, 2011 11:39 PM EDT reply actions
lol
It’s funny seeing people finally come around to what I’ve been saying for the past 2 years.
I know it may seem like I hate everyone, but it’s just for the most part the FO picks pretty much everyone who I think suck:S
I admit haden isn’t trip-over-his-own-feet sucky, as much as I don’t think his impact is as large as his highlights would suggest(opportunistic); time will tell with him but I’m glad he isn’t a liability 100% of the time. But unless the coaching staff plays Little exactly like Philly plays Harvin which is NOT as a feature WR, then next year we’ll be saying the exact same thing about him. Ward is being exposed daily and I’ll give taylor the benefit of the doubt but I have the feeling he’ll disappear in 2 years.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Sep 16, 2011 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I gotta say “Huh?” to this post…sorry.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Sep 16, 2011 6:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Most people on this site have been saying our receivers suck for a long, long time now.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 16, 2011 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions
You’re still in Haden denial. Opportunistic meaning he makes plays every single time they actually throw at him?
He did allow one catch Sunday, so maybe when he completely bagels the opposing O.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Are we talking the TD catch of Green?
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 16, 2011 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I am not counting that one.
Elsewhere I read that he “allowed” 3 catches, one being the TD. I only remember “two” if we are counting the TD.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
No way can the A.J. Green TD be pinned on Haden. Not in my world.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Sep 17, 2011 4:51 AM EDT up reply actions
i have to take up for myself here … i’ve been by far the loudest and harshest critic of the browns’ receivers on this forum. it’s not close.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 16, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
From my recollection, the only positive thing I have said about a WR is that I think MoMass is an adequate starter, I have not had anything nice to say about any of the other WRs. At the same time, I have also been arguing that we should focus on upgrading other positions before WR. We are filling out the roster a bit better at this point, and it may be a good idea to get some real wideouts.
I was firmly in the DontCallMeJoey camp on the receivers up until around the end of training camp and by then had become fooled by the various homer reports (cleveland press and tweets from TheWolf) that our receivers + our TEs were all looking pretty good (with MoMass still an unknown having just come back from injury). My personal “Browns receivers confidence chart” was on a major upswing, but it now looks like the most recent Dow Jones chart and I’m back on board with DCMJ.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Sep 17, 2011 4:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Cribbs and Little is the ticket to ride. Alternating through the wide out, flanker, fullback, halfback and tight end slots. That´s my focal point. Then Massaquoi comes into play, he´s the steady eddie receiver all over the field. In places is right for Robiskie, because he should have the chance to become a third down specialist. Mitchell is a weapon down field. The tight ends can prove their importance on rushing plays, and rushing plays that break down.
Make a Statement
Lets put Massaquoi in the WR1 and have Little in the WR2. That will allow Cribbs to make things happen through his speed, quickness and ability to lead block for the runs. If by chance Cribbs gets injured at that spot, Little can take over. This can then bump Robo to the WR2 along with being a possession style receiver. Make it happen Browns.
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