Colt McCoy Pulls it Together as Browns Beat Dolphins 17-16 on Game-Winning TD Drive
It was ugly, but at the end of the day, the Cleveland Browns have a 2-1 record and remain tied for first-place in the division (technically second due to their 0-1 division record). Things weren't looking good for Cleveland, but after a long, dark day offensively, Colt McCoy pulled things together for a game-winning touchdown pass to Mohamed Massaquoi.
| MIAMI DOLPHINS (0-3) | GAME #3 | CLEVELAND BROWNS (2-1) |
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| 16 | 17 |
WEEK 3 - MIAMI DOLPHINS VS. CLEVELAND BROWNS (COMPLETE GAME REVIEW)
- Awarding Game Balls: RB Montario Hardesty - His final stat line was not flashy (i.e. he didn't go over the 100 yard mark and went without a touchdown), but I'd say that Hardesty had a solid day in his first career game as a starter. He assisted in setting up all three of Cleveland's scores, including a key fourth-down reception on the final drive of the game. Playing as many snaps as he did was a drastic change from what Hardesty's been accustomed to since his college days, so this was a huge step forward for him. Full game ball award given here.
- Goat of the Game: QB Colt McCoy - I thought about keeping McCoy off of this category due to his game-winning touchdown drive, but he was the reason we were in the situation in the first place. For whatever reason, excluding maybe four minutes of the game, McCoy's accuracy was terrible. Balls were overthrown, underthrown, behind players, you name it. In the past, I've used weather, a constant pass rush, or injuries as an excuse. There were no excuses in this game other than the fact that he "just didn't have it." In particular, the missed pass deep down the middle to a wide open Joshua Cribbs was inexcusable.
- Little Marks His Territory: Several of our receivers and tight ends delivered on the final offensive drive, but Greg Little really stood out, having 3 catches for 24 yards. One of those catches involved him pulling a "Gumby" (per Randy Cross, followed by a creepy Don Criqui laugh) move to avoid the tackle of a defender before advancing for a first down and getting out of bounds. I can't believe this guy dropped so many passes in training camp, because so far he's done well when called upon on gameday.
- Leading the AFC in Sacks...Whaaa? After last season and after hiring Dick Jauron to run the 4-3, the only proven player the team had on the defensive line was Ahtyba Rubin, and he'd be undergoing a slight position change. With three new starters required, the defensive line was originally projected to be our weakest position on the team. The pass rush that has developed among the youngsters so quickly is remarkable, as sacks are coming from a combination of power and speed. Rubin, Jayme Mitchell, and Phil Taylor combined for four sacks against Miami. Linebackers D'Qwell Jackson and Chris Gocong each had half a sack.
- Crossing Route to Watson: Mid-way through the game, I was surprised to see the Dolphins suddenly start "giving" the Browns the crossing route to Benjamin Watson. McCoy went to that play several times and he ended up targeting Watson more than any other receiver (10 targets, 5 catches). Watson did have one pass that was a clear drop.
- First TD = Redux of Week 1? The first touchdown pass looked like an exact replica of the Week 1 touchdown pass to Ben Watson. It involves McCoy playfaking to the left and then rolling out to the right. Watson, originally lined up on the right, sells his blocking for awhile and then sneaks back across the formation and then up the field. Watson did the same thing against Miami and McCoy was looking to throw that way. He stopped and then decided to toss it up to Joshua Cribbs in the right corner of the end zone; I assume Cribbs is the second choice on that play. It seems like the Browns are 2/2 in touchdowns when running this play.
- Moore Still Effective: I'm obsessed with this Evan Moore guy. He only had two catches, but again seemed to be the go-to-guy when he did get on the field. I'm not going to chastise Shurmur for playing Alex Smith more often than Moore because I think it is the right coaching decision given our right tackle situation. Once Tony Pashos returns, I feel confident that we'll see Moore's reps increase.
- One Target for Robiskie: I am pretty stunned that Brian Robiskie has 0 catches after three games. Is that even possible? I'm not looking to get into the whole Robiskie-can't-get-open debate again, but it seems like the coaching staff is slowly reducing his workload in favor of Little, Cribbs, and Mohamed Massaquoi. Robiskie was targeted once late in the game on a jump ball play deep down the field. Robiskie could not pull it in.
- Hello, Armond Smith: After getting only two carries in his first two offensive series, it was time for Hardesty to have a breather. Third-string back Armond Smith had what might end up being his only two carries of the season, and the good news is that he didn't fumble the ball! He showed a quick burst on his first carry, but the second play just seemed to take forever to develop. I assume that the original plan was for Peyton Hillis to play the first two series and for Hardesty to enter during the third series, regardless of how many Hillis has received.
- The Opposite of Playmaking: Remember when I gave Cleveland the advantage at the running back position in my preview for the game? One of the reasons was that I felt Reggie Bush was a liability. He finished the game with 10 carries for 13 yards, and one of his carries went for 10 yards. If you take that away, he had 9 carries for 3 yards. He also had a critical fumble that could have ultimately been the difference maker in the outcome of the game. Daniel Thomas looked impressive though -- Miami should definitely stick with him more often.
- Kickoff and Punt Returns: Was it a good or bad decision to keep Joshua Cribbs off of special teams on Sunday? On one hand, we know that his returns against the Colts played a key role in two of our touchdowns. On the other hand, it's not worth Cribbs reaggravating his groin injury, and Cribbs might not get many opportunities anyway due to the Dolphins' kicker and punter. When it was all said and done, Buster Skrine only had one kick return and Jordan Norwood only had one punt return.
- Celebration Penalty: First off, Mohamed Massaquoi should not have been flagged for going to the ground in celebrating his touchdown. He never got up, and it seemed like when he rolled over after the catch, he just happened to stay on his knees. If you're going to flag him for that, can we flag the defender who stayed on the ground in misery that he just gave up a game-winning touchdown? Ben Watson was also flagged for basically going down to Massaquoi's level, saying something, and probably helping him to his feet. They should've negated the whole penalty situation anyway when a fan ran onto the field and joined in on the fun (note: that was not Jordan Cameron, but a real fan; not sure if some of you were kidding about Cameron or not).
- Bad Situation: What's the worst thing that can happen as a result of the 15-yard penalty? A good return to set up a game-winning field goal. Well, Miami got a pretty decent kick return, but they were in great shape after Dimitri Patterson was flagged 15 yards for a horse collar tackle. I don't consider Patterson a goat for that. He was trying to prevent a touchdown return and might have felt he was the last guy to beat and just happened to grab hold of the collar when reaching out. Nonetheless, Miami was in great position to win the game, but our defense delivered. How did Miami not gain any yards?
- The Joy of Don Criqui: I didn't think that Don Criqui was as bad as he was last year, but as I started re-listening to the game, I started picking up all of the oddities Criqui had. That would include a few creepy laughs, his, "[McCoy throws pass] ................... throw ... oh, Ithinkit'satouchdownitIS!," and him thinking the Dolphins would be forced to try a 67-yard field goal rather than just going for it on 4th-and-10 with a timeout left. The conviction with which he made that statement could crack anyone up. He also threw in a random comment about the officials being so incredible after they didn't call pass interference on the Dolphins late in the game.
- Go Down Sooner: Safety Mike Adams should know better than to run around after making what should be a game-sealing interception. He didn't run around as bad as some people have in the past, but it should almost be an instant kneel down next time.
- Maynard Getting it Done: I refuse to complain about punter Brad Maynard, who I thought did exactly what has been asked of him for the second straight week. He wasn't credited with having any punts inside the 20, but two of his coffin corner punts went out of bounds at the 20- and 22-yard line.
- Special Teams Tackles: Linebacker Kaluka Maiava led the team with two special teams tackles. After him, defensive backs Dimitri Patterson, Ray Ventrone, and Buster Skrine each had a tackle. Joshua Cribbs was credited with the tackle on Colt McCoy's first interception of the game.
- No Replacement...Just Colt: You know what I like about this season? Amidst all of Colt McCoy's struggles, there wasn't a thing inside of me that said, "let's see what the backup has to offer." That never would've been the case the past several years.
- Give it Up For D'Qwell Jackson: Our middle linebacker continues to be on a tear this season. He finished the game with a team-leading 11 tackles, 0.5 sacks, and 1 fumble recovery. He recovered the ball that Jayme Mitchell had forced loose from Reggie Bush early in the game. I also thought that for one stretch of the game, Chris Gocong suddenly had an impact. I'm still awaiting a few big plays from veteran Scott Fujita.
- Brownies: The Browns almost had a safety, but Jabaal Sheard was flagged with roughing the passer...unfortunately, Cleveland allowed Miami to have a drive lasting 8:08 as a result...Cleveland's longest drive of the game lasted 4:23...the Browns struggled on third-down, going 3-of-11...the coaching staff has to find a way for the team to have more success offensively in 2nd-and-1 or 3rd-and-1 situations...CB Joe Haden did a fine job covering WR Brandon Marshall...I really liked what I saw from WR Brian Hartline on Miami...we were fortunate not to get called for interference on the final drive when TE Alex Smith bowled into a defender...defensive end Emmanuel Stephens was credited with two tackles and a tackle for a loss...WR Carlton Mitchell was active, but as far as I know did not play on offense.
Up next, the Browns take on Matt Hasselbeck and the Tennessee Titans in their final game before the bye week. The Titans have been a pretty good team defensively and Hasselbeck has been efficient, so this should be Cleveland's toughest test of the season so far.
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If the Browns can stop Chris Johnson (or if he is still slowed by his swollen wallet) then I like the Browns chances. No Kenny Britt, Washington covered by Haden and no other real threat on the roster.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Sep 27, 2011 2:21 PM EDT reply actions
Pretty much this. Hasselbeck is the best QB they have seen to this point in the season though, so it’s a good test for the young Browns right before the bye.
How’s the Titan’s pass protection? It would be pretty incredible to go into the bye leading the league in sacks.
by ouched on Sep 27, 2011 2:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Hasnt been sacked much but he has thrived on the big play which to me is our defenses strength. We dont get beat deep often.
Something else to consider in the Jacksonville and Baltimore games he relied heavily on 3 targets.
Baltimore: Britt, Washington and Johnson were targeted 29 of 42 pass attempts
Jacksonville: 24 of 34
Denver: 19 of 36 (Britt missed most of the game)
If we are able to keep Johnson and Washington covered I like our chances.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Sep 27, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
hasselbeck completed passes to 11 receivers on sunday.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 27, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
was one of them to Robiske?
"You are the worst villains in football, your evil plan never ceases."-Mooncamping
by discoinferno083 on Sep 27, 2011 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
don’t be ridiculous. robiskie doesn’t catch passes.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 27, 2011 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
My theory is that since Moore is a great receiver but can’t block to save his Coly, his blocking duties have been given (in a modified form) to Robiski. Now all I need is some tape to support that theory.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
Uh…?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Has anyone seen the last two Titans games? What is the deal with Chris Johnson not doing much? D? Not enough touches? Bad blocking?
Missing training camp I am sure.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Sep 27, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea, 46 carries for 98 yards is terrible. I don’t want to put all of that on missing camp though. And he hasn’t even run for more than 9 yards on a carry yet. Amazing.
Their blocking is horrible.
No one is running very well (Ringer at 1.4 YPC). Still it’s CJ2K, you have to be concerned. I’m not worried about him going up the middle, but I am scared about him on sweeps. CJ against Fujita? Yikes.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 27, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
combo of limited touches and bad blocking. i think they’re bringing him along somewhat slowly, too, considering he missed camp. lastly, i do believe that his touches will be down a bit this year, as the titans don’t want him toting the rock 400+ times again this year (a la hillis for us).
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 27, 2011 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought about keeping McCoy off of this category due to his game-winning touchdown drive, but he was the reason we were in the situation in the first place. For whatever reason, excluding maybe four minutes of the game, McCoy’s accuracy was terrible. Balls were overthrown, underthrown, behind players, you name it. In the past, I’ve used weather, a constant pass rush, or injuries as an excuse. There were no excuses in this game other than the fact that he “just didn’t have it.” In particular, the missed pass deep down the middle to a wide open Joshua Cribbs was inexcusable.
I am glad you didn’t sugar-coat this. I am no rocland/licensed pessimist, but some of the people coronating Colt after the game were ridiculous. Not so much on this site but on others — particularly Daniel Wolf who repeatedly tweeted about how great Colt was since he came through at the end and that we basically should overlook the rest of the game.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Sep 27, 2011 3:02 PM EDT reply actions
I agree with this. McCoy is looking like a good backup to me right now. We barely beat two 0-3 teams and lost to a team that hasn’t won a game since. No one should really be getting “coronated” any time soon. The good news is that most of the rest of the season we play some pretty poor teams so Colt has time to grow into the position and system. He is the only possibility at QB for the Browns so after this season we should have a pretty good idea if he can take the Browns into the post season and beyond.
Brownsyup
For a player only playing his 10th game I was impressed with how McCoy came through despite struggling for the entire game. The good Qb’s make plays when the game is on the line and yesterday Colt did just that.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Sep 27, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I was impressed by how he came through on that drive as well — see also his last drive in regulation against the Jets last year to tie the game. But my point is that that drive does not relieve concerns about the way he played for the rest of the game, which was horrible. Really, really bad. I like that Chris still called him a goat for this game because he was.
On a related note, however, I can’t say how much I agree with Chris on this statement:
You know what I like about this season? Amidst all of Colt McCoy’s struggles, there wasn’t a thing inside of me that said, “let’s see what the backup has to offer.” That never would’ve been the case the past several years.
I’m all for giving this entire season to Colt to evaluate him and I am cautiously optimistic about him. But part of evaluating him is, you know, evaluating him. When he sucks, let’s say it.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Sep 27, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
The only way you wouldn’t agree with that statement is if you felt we should’ve put Seneca Wallace in the game. Did you really feel like we should do that? In regards to saying he sucked, the earlier part covered that, as you mentioned.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 27, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you misunderstood me — I said I fully agreed with your statement. I obviously don’t want Wallace or Lewis in the game. As I said, this season is Colt’s so let’s honestly evaluate him, which are you doing.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Sep 27, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Gotcha. “I can’t say how much I agree with Chris on this statement” -— I took that to mean “I can’t really say how much [as in, maybe not at all] with Chris” on the first read. After reading again, I understand that you were basically saying, “I could not agree more…”
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 27, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, my wording was awkward — I think I meant “I could not agree more with Chris . . .” It’s great to feel like this is Colt’s turn and that if he’s successful, great, and if not, it was only a 3rd round pick so we could move on. Again, I am cautiously optimistic about Colt and I really, really hope we don’t need to start looking for QBs again anytime soon (and I also think 3rd round for Colt was a steal and somewhat of a fluke as people just didn’t want QBs that year — compared especially to this last draft).
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Sep 27, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
totally agreed with you and chris. not for one second did i think “put the other guy in”. first time in a long time.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 27, 2011 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds like he wanted something inside him to feel….something.
Those are my principles. If you don’t like them I have others. - Groucho Marx
by The New Kardiac Kids on Sep 27, 2011 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Yikes. Not to belabor the point, but having a 200+ yd passing game with 2 TD’s vs. 1 pick would have been a HUGE step in the right direction almost ANY TIME in the last 5-6 years. Throw in the rookie issue, the new offense, no dominant WR threat, etc…
He played a crap game and missed some big throws early, but the early results have been encouraging, given the above issues. I like how you put it….we’re evaluating, and today was a C-. That said, the people calling for Luck or Barkley aren’t looking at the big picture.
Give this man a reasonable right tackle and a season of experience, and we’re looking at 25 TD/10 INT type season next year.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Sep 28, 2011 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t see anyone calling for Luck or Barkley.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2011 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions
If Colt is not “the man” going forward and proves himself to be just average, that is plan b. Get “the man”
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Sep 28, 2011 2:20 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Well yeah, but you said people were calling for Luck and Barkley, and I have yet to see anyone give up on Colt yet.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I haven’t seen it, and i have read almost every single comment outside of game threads. I’ve seen a lot of people say Colt needs to play better, but I have yet to see anyone say he’s a lost cause.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2011 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve seen atleast one comment calling for an upgrade can’t remember who though. Either way not enough to call out an entire site.
Mangini apologist by default.
Brownsyup has a couple times, that’s true.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Me and Simms.
Pittsburgh is just jealous. We got Cudi and they have Wiz.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 28, 2011 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
You don’t see it for Luck because it’s universally understood.
Pittsburgh is just jealous. We got Cudi and they have Wiz.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 28, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Give this man a reasonable right tackle and a season of experience, and we’re looking at 25 TD/10 INT type season next year.
Don’t look now, but he is on pace for a 25-10 season this year.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
The good Qb’s make plays when the game is on the line
But they typically aren’t the reason the team is in a hole in the first place, unlike Colt in this game.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
Right, let’s not give a guy too much credit for getting the team out of a hole he dug himself.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 27, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
A lot of NFL games come down to the last possession, even if you play great all day. Being good in the clutch is more important than throwing for 400 yards and losing.
I’m torn.
I’m not happy with the way he was playing during the game. But it was his 10th start, and even though he had played like crap all day long, he went down the field and stuck a perfect, and I mean perfect, throw to win a game.
Honestly, how cool was that?! I’m like a giddy school girl.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 27, 2011 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think colt’s struggles in this game might have been a bit overstated. he had a few throws come off poorly but i also think that the new offense and lack of a training camp has really kept colt from getting on the same page as the receivers.
And honestly, while i dont want to anoint colt mccoy our savior just yet, I’ve watched a lot of football, and last week was the first time since the team came back that I actually felt a browns quarterback was capable of executing a successful two minute drill in the clutch to seal a fourth quarter comeback. I had a feeling the kid could damn well do it, and he did. I never had that confidence in any other Browns qb going back to tim couch. In fact, i think part of the reason that the fanbase has called for the backup in the past is because a lot of the fans felt the same lack of confidence in the likes of Brady Quinn, Derek Anderson, et all.
"Smokescreen."
I have to be honest. At the beginning of that drive I had no faith that Colt would be able to execute because he was really pretty bad up to that point. However, having seen him carry it through I now have hope that he can repeat the exercise in the future.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I don’t know, Colt executed pretty well in those situations in Daboll’s offense…
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Yes, but on that day in that game I had not seen anything to that point that made me think “Colt can do this.” Likewise, prior to that game I was expecting better from him for the first 3 quarters because until that point I hadn’t seen him play such a long stretch like BQ.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I forget who else mentioned it first, but I would like to see the Browns use some hurry-up earlier on in the game. Especially when he is struggling.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2011 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
this is a great idea.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2011 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
But if our defense hadn’t held the McCoy wouldn’t have even been in a position to win the game. I know a win and good final drive at the end can make fans forget about all the bad plays earlier in the game, but those bad plays do matter. It was great to see McCoy lead us on a game-winning drive but that doesn’t negate the bad plays which he made throughout most of the game. He needs to play better if we want to beat teams which are better than Miami.
Obviously winning is always better than losing, but you judge teams by those metrics, not individual players. If we’re going to judge McCoy as a QB then his play the entire game does matter. Playing awful for 55 minutes then putting together one great drive isn’t good enough. If the Browns’ defense doesn’t hold Miami to a field goal before that drive then McCoy’s “clutch” play is irrelevant and we’re focusing on his bad plays all game long.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 27, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
“Playing awful for 55 minutes then putting together one great drive isn’t good enough”
Seems to work for #7 in pittsburgh. Especially in his 2 superbowl “wins” where I believe his offense has scored about the same amount of touchdowns as his defense.
this isn’t true anymore, regrettably
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Seems to work for #7 in pittsburgh
No way. I hate to say it, but Ben is a very good QB who makes plays all throughout the game. Sure, he didn’t play well in their first Super Bowl win, but that was 5 or 6 years ago. He’s a much better player now. (Besides, you can’t judge a QB only by how he played in 2 games.)
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 28, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, it makes me want to puke to say it, but the guy is a pretty good QB.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup, it’s delusional to say he’s not.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Sep 28, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s hard to say things like this because we aren’t looking at a discrete distribution here. The line is pretty blurry.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps taking liberty with some rhetoric here, but…
There is nothing elite about Ben Roethlisberger.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Sep 28, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
his attitude.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
With no Peyton Manning, he’s creeping into that category. Brees, Brady, Rodgers, then it’s open for debate. ben and Rivers probably right there behind those guys.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Romo or Big Ben? I’m asking the group here.
I take Romo.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2011 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
big ben 11 times out of 10 (/shudder)
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2011 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Nou.
Pittsburgh is just jealous. We got Cudi and they have Wiz.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 28, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
My Browns fandom will not allow me to answer this question.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
meteor.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
by Dawg Nuts on Sep 28, 2011 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
2 games — let’s give the kid some more time before we start labeling him.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 28, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
What Cam Newton is doing in his rookie year thus far is nothing short of phenomenal.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Sep 28, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Colt sucked, but he performed in the clutch something Henne couldn’t do. Colt wasn’t good, but he is more likely to be QBOTF than Henne based on this game.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
but he is more likely to be QBOTF than Henne based on this game.
No he’s not. Henne played much better. Henne completed 2/3 of his passes with a respecctable YPA, and didn’t throw an interception until it was 4th and 10 at the end of the game.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2011 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Henne hadplayed muchbetter stats
When Henne had the opportunity to win the game, he didn’t step up and this isn’t the first time. He hasn’t been very good with the game on the line the last couple seasons.
Its the same reason why people in Denver don’t believe Kyle Orton is the QBOTF, he doesn’t execute when it counts. Being able to execute in key situations is part of being a franchise QB
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
The whole game counts. If you build a big lead early then it’s much harder for the other team to come back. This idea that only what happens in the last 5 minutes of the game matters is ridiculous. If a QB has better starts (and I don’t mean just yards or completion %) then that means he played better. A win or a loss is a team result and should not be attributed solely to one player.
Most fans are stupid. I’m not going to judge QB’s based on what fans think. The fact that Denver fans want Tim Tebow over Kyle Orton doesn’t say anything about the quality of Orton’s play.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 28, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
it just reiterates that denver fans are dumb.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
the whole game counts and so does a win. It has become a large part of QB evaluation
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
It has become a large part of QB evaluation
For fans not interested in accurately evaluating a QB.
By the way, weren’t you arguing against this somewhere else?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Ok, I tried to rec you, but it just says loading and has a 1 next to flag. I didn’t flag you or atleast not on purpose.
Mangini apologist by default.
You didn’t, I think SBN has been having some issues with that of late, someone else posted the same thing elsewhere.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2011 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the Romeo thread fried their REC servers.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2011 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I agreed with dcmj that the QB wasn’t responsible for everything, but I would never say that winning games doesn’t matter as part of a QB evaluation.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
but I would never say that winning games doesn’t matter as part of a QB evaluation.
I would rank it as exactly as important as draft pick success in evaluating a QB.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2011 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
you said based on this past game, so you can throw out anything else. You would have to be crazy to say that Colt had a better game than Henne. If it weren’t for a fumble or someone running backwards after they had a first down or a missed field goal, the last few minutes wouldn’t have mattered. Colt got extremely lucky to win, it had nothing to do with playing better. Henne on the other hand played much better and put his team in a position to win, they just let him down.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
you said based on this past game, so you can throw out anything else.
Okay, Colt looked bad but played clutch. Henne looked good but choked. I’d rather have a clutch player than a choke artist.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Colt was in a position to be clutch largely because he put the team in a position where he had to be clutch in the end.
Tom Brady didn’t lead the Patriots to a win over Miami in the final minutes of their game; he was clutch the entire game against the Dolphins and they won by 2 TDs with him throwing for 517 yds.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
With all of this going on, I don’t want to put words in bross’ mouth and I don’t like a lot of the clichés about “when it counts” but I think there’s still something to be said about passing to win in the final 2 minutes.
When you are in that situation, you have a limited set of plays to work with and the defense knows what is coming to a certain extent.
All the cards are on the table, the variables are nailed down, and both teams know exactly what is going on: score a TD or lose the game. And quickly.
It’s a skill to be able to operate that kind of offense, march it down the field, and score. It’s not about Colt “putting” his team in position to do that—both teams put the game in that position, it’s about Colt having that skillset. And I think it’s a valuable one.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with this. It’s the idea that this skill completely overrides every single other skill that we’re taking issue with.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
you are right that his team put him into the position to win, but so did Henne’s (and he also definitely helped out).
I am not at all saying Colt had a good performance. He actually had a pretty lousy performance that showed a tiny bit of promise at the end. However, the fact that he looked more like the QBOTF yesterday to me shows how down I am on Henne.
Colt was not good, I just don’t think Henne is going to be good in the future.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
It’s fine if you don’t think Henne will be good in the future, but you are nuts if you think Colt played better than Henne on Sunday.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2011 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t say that Colt played better, but that he inspired more confidence in me that he could be the QBOTF.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Ok this is ridiculous.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 29, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’d rather have a player who plays well enough to not need to be clutch. Henne shouldn’t have been put in that position, his team did that to him.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know, you can’t say Henne played well enough to not need to be clutch and blame it on his team. Henne played a solid game, but if you are crediting QBs with offensive success/lack thereof, he only got them 16 points. That’s hardly “well enough to not need to be clutch.”
The bottom line is that Colt played pretty poorly all game until the last drive, while Henne played pretty well all game but only got 16 points.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Henne also had a missed field goal and a fumble in the red zone to overcome. Henne’s team held him back, while Colt held his team back, and I think that’s what the difference was.
None of this says much about where these two will be in the future, it’s just one game after all. But to claim Colt played better than Henne is absurd. We might as well say DA played better than the Bills QB during that game he went 1-11.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
If Henne throws TDs, there’s no FG opportunity. He didn’t play poorly, he just didn’t display skills neccessary for me to see his team as holding him back, namely throwing TDs in the red zone. It wasn’t like he had an outstanding day and his defense couldn’t stop us from scoring.
Who is/is not the franchise guy shouldn’t be determined by one game, for sure.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
This. Miami was 0/2 in goal to go situations. The fumble and missed 51 yard field goal cost them 6 points. Red zone failures cost them 8. Henne played well enough to not lose. He didn’t play well enough to win.
What if...
by Danieldelamaiz on Sep 28, 2011 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Miami was 0/2 in goal to go situations
and didn’t even take a shot into the end zone. there are a lot of reasons miami lost that game.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2011 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Daboll.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
by JustBob on Sep 28, 2011 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Daboll.
A shoe in for interim head coach (does anyone still doubt his genius?) — unless he gets the hook first among the growing herd of scapegoats.
Sparano’s days are numbered. They will most likely be 0-4 after San Diego this Sunday.
Must suck to be a Phins fan right now.
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is. -- Yogi Berra
by JustPlainBrowns on Sep 28, 2011 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Henne’s team held him back,
I dunno, he couldn’t execute in the red zone outside of the problems you mentioned.
But to claim Colt played better than Henne is absurd.
Colt had a worse game, but I felt better about Colt as a franchise guy because of that game than Henne, even with how bad Colt was.
But like Rufio said, who is a franchise guy shouldn’t be determined by one game.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Colt had a worse game
I felt better about Colt as a franchise guy because of that game than Henne
I don’t think I should have to point out how ridiculous these two things are side by side. You are literally saying you would take the QB who played worse.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2011 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions
because I have absolutely no confidence in the other QB to get the job done and get a W and play in the clutch.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Let me put it to you this way. The QB who puts up 300 yards and completes 66% of his passes is going to win a lot more games in the NFL than the one who completes less than 50% of his passes for 150 yards. That second guy will win more dramatic games, but I would rather just win more games.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 29, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
While I’m with everyone else that Colt sucked for the most part this game, not all of his bad performance lies on him. Hardesty is less of a threat catching passes out of the backfield than Hillis, and there were two major dropped passes that killed momentum. The kid is only in his second year, regular season games into a brand new system, and has a wide receiver core that is bottom 5 in the league.
Come on Marecic, get in front of the damn ball! Don't give me this "olé" bullsht!
i think a lot of colt’s shortcomings are on him for this one, but i don’t think there’s anyone here who is jumping off whatever colt bandwagon there is. i’ve seen an awful lot of realism with respect to colt’s game around here in the days since … one bad game doesn’t doom him, but he’d better learn from it and improve.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 27, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Hardesty is less of a threat catching passes out of the backfield than Hillis
The 4th down play that kept the game alive for us says otherwise. Even with that, we don’t have nearly enough evidence to say this yet. But the fact is, when given an opportunity to be the lead dawg in the backfield, Hardesty did a pretty decent job.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
no doubt. also, as is pointed out elsewhere on here, one of the reasons we allegedly really liked him coming out of TN was his ability to catch the ball out of the backfield (which he had demonstrated in college, unlike maceric)
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Comparing him to Marecic is silly — Hardesty is a running back, not a fullback, and you expect running backs to be better at catching and running with the ball.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 28, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
it was really tongue in cheek. a lot of consternation around here about maceric, his ability to catch, and his having demonstrated that ability (or not) in college.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
The fullback in a WCO is going to catch a lot of balls, potentially. Need one with hands. Hillis is actually the prototypical WCO fullback.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Sep 28, 2011 2:18 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Colt is less comfortable with Hardesty at this point. While Hardesty may in the long run be a great option out of the backfield, right now Colt has more chemistry with Hillis. I’m not taking anything away from Montario, he played great for his first full duty game, but it will take some time for me to consider him as a good of a receiving back as Hillis.
Come on Marecic, get in front of the damn ball! Don't give me this "olé" bullsht!
Was it a good or bad decision to keep Joshua Cribbs off of special teams on Sunday?
No. Cribbs said he couldn’t do it. I believe him.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Sep 27, 2011 3:06 PM EDT reply actions
I was also pleased to see Gocong making some noise during this game. I don’t know if Fujita’s lost a step or if DQ doing his job in the 4-3 scheme overshadows the OLBs in general.
by chitown browns fan on Sep 27, 2011 3:29 PM EDT reply actions
I don’t know how you can talk about our surprising QB pressure without mentioning Sheard. I know he only has 1 sack in the stats, but my eyes tell me he’s been our best pass rusher. Looking like a helluva 2nd round steal.
I praised Sheard last week, but yes, he does deserve just as much praise this week. Except for the slip on the Dolphins’ only touchdown pass, he was a force throughout the game.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 27, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Shurmur said they didn’t play Evan Moore as much because the Dolphins were lining up on him as if he were a WR and automatically moving to nickel package. This caused him to adapt the play-calling in those situations.
I wonder if you will see more teams doing this in the future.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 27, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I bet we will. There’s nothing about Moore that says TE except his size. I’d be happy if they put a CB on him, though.
by chitown browns fan on Sep 27, 2011 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
When teams do, we need to punish them with the run game.
Moore has to win the blocking battle against a CB.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 27, 2011 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely. Or let Moore play 1-on-1 with a nicely timed jump ball.
by chitown browns fan on Sep 27, 2011 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly. Put Moore in there, if they show nickel give the ball to Hillis if they don’t run a pattern for Moore. Should keep them honest
by pittsburghbrownie on Sep 27, 2011 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
First TD = Redux of Week 1?
Yes, it was.
We are in a singleback set with two TEs right, one WR each side, and the left WR cheats in. We play-fake an inside zone run to the left, and roll Colt right.
Right WR goes deep with a forced-outside-release, left WR is on a deep cross. The back carries out his fake. Alex Smith (wider of 2 TEs) briefly fakes the zone block, then drifts right as a pass protector, looking for someone who goes after Colt hard. If there’s no one, he’s into the flat as a pass option.
That’s a pretty normal flood play, but the beauty of ours is having a player like Watson (note: I don’t think Shurmur did this with Daniel Fells last year, I think Watson’s exceptional athleticism makes this play available for us). He blocks on the inside zone path, chipping a DL and leaking up to the second level…only he just keeps running by the LBs/box players and heads up the hash marks on the opposite seam.
Watson was open on this again if Colt didn’t like his look to Cribbs.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
There is no one on the team who deserves a “Goat” award for the Miami game more than Colt.
He sucked badly for almost the entire game. Thankfully he finally pulled it together in the final minutes.
As an admitted homer and McCoy optimist I still expect great thib from him, but I’m still baffled by his performance on Sunday. It was not pretty.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Sep 27, 2011 4:56 PM EDT reply actions
You’re missing the very obvious counter-argument here.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 27, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
No, just ignoring it. If they got were open he would have hit them a couple times no matter how bad one may think he played.
Anybody want to take into consideration that on Colt’s overthrow of a wide open Cribbs that Cribbs was not able to run at full speed? QB’s and WR’s work together to “get a feel” for how they run routes and just maybe Colt threw the pass based on Cribbs un-injured game speed? I’m not trying to exonerate what couold possibly just be a lousy throw, but we of course don’t know.
What does that MEAN - TO PLAY US OUT?!!?!?
Cribbs didn’t seem all that limited in straight line speed. That type of stuff matters on a timing throw, but that was just a bad throw.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Cribbs’ groin injury did have something to do with that overthrow. If he was healthy, is it a touchdown? I don’t know, but Cribbs didn’t look to be able to hit his top gear and run under that ball, to my eyes at least. That doesn’t excuse many of Colt’s bad throws, but that one is just an unfortunate situation.
It wasn’t a good throw (if anything, you underthrow that ball) but it did look like Cribbs pulled up a little bit to me.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I was curious after all this discussion and decided to go back and look at that play a few times. I agree with your assessment – both sides have a point. Cribbs did appear to pull up a bit toward the end. But the bottom line is the ball was overthrown and I believe it would have been almost impossible for him to get underneath it regardless.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Sep 28, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I am not so sure a healthy Cribbs doesn’t run just a little faster and have a chance at a layout grab there.
But obviously if you are the QB, you need to realize he’s hurt and throw it shorter. And if you don’t know how fast he’s going to be, underthrow it, slow him down, and take the 30 yards and maybe not the TD.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Although, if you throw that ball short, there were two defenders about five yards behind Cribbs.
by chitown browns fan on Sep 28, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s fine, let him adjust to it as they play catch-up. They can’t afford to turn their heads to catch it, he can.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
99 out of 100 times it’s caught or PI. Win-win.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2011 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
The QB needs to put more air under the ball to give the WR time to adjust if he needs to.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 28, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Forgive me if I had to chuckle just a little after this comment – but hearing someone say McCoy needed to “put some more air under the ball” is, well the irony of it is a bit amusing if you get my gist… :-/
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Sep 28, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I thought he pulled up after he realized the ball was overthrown by a wide margin, when there was no chance he could have gotten to it anyway.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
He pulled up because it was that bad, yet it landed only 5 yards from him?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
His perception on the field is likely different than that of us watching on TV. Cribbs doesn’t dog it, so I’m sure he didn’t let up on a catchable ball on purpose. He may have just been wrong, but it was clearly badly overthrown and it seems like he knew it.
My point is that Cribbs hasn’t appeared to be hampered on any other runs, and I didn’t think it looked like he pulled up because of injury.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
A couple of years ago I might have bitten on the perception angle. Cribbs was used to seeing balls coming at him with his shoulders squared up on them. But he’s been playing and practicing as a WR for some time now and even making catches on balls coming in on similar angles.
No, I’m going to have to go with the injury theory. There’s a reason why he wasn’t returning punts and kicks.
As to the quality of the throw, I haven’t gone back to re-watch it and I’m not sure I would notice anything if I did. But I have seen many better established QBs overthrow open WRs, so I’m not really as worried about that particular play as compared to his earlier inaccurate throws.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
Cribbs doesn’t dog it, so I’m sure he didn’t let up on a catchable ball on purpose.
Honestly, I think you are giving him too much credit on reputation. He slows down. Maybe he thought it wasn’t worth pulling his groin to make the extra effort on what probably wasn’t going to be a catch (and I agree), but he slows down.
I’m not saying it was a perfectly thrown ball and I never was.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I think we all may be saying pretty much the same thing.
I think maybe Cribbs saw where that ball was headed and knew he couldn’t get under it so he just pulled up at the last moment. Perhaps if he didn’t have the groin injury he might have made a last second burst / dive for the ball. But he did have the groin injury, and knew it was out of his reach (and overthrown). I wouldn’t blame him if this was the case and he didn’t want to risk aggravating the injury diving for a ball he almost certainly wouldn’t have caught.
I think most of us agree that the ball was overthrown, regardless of what happened there with Cribbs.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Sep 28, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Colt missed wide open receivers on Sunday. It isn’t normal for him, but he did it. In the NFL, guys aren’t going to be wide open, you need to throw them open, and Colt wasn’t nearly accurate enough to do that Sunday.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2011 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Why are you baffled by it? It’s not his first bad game and it won’t be his last. He played well enough to win which is better than anything we’ve had recently.
What baffles me is how inaccurate he was with his throws. And it wasn’t like it was long, difficult throws he was missing. He couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn for 57 minutes. I’ve just never seen him miss so many easy throws so badly. It just seemed like he was a zombie out there for the first 3 1/2 quarters.
I’ve never seen him like that before.
I know this won’t be his last “bad game”, but man, this one was really, really bad. I do think it was uncharacteristic though, and I definitely believe he will bounce back and continue to improve.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Sep 27, 2011 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
is this an innuendo?
"You are the worst villains in football, your evil plan never ceases."-Mooncamping
by discoinferno083 on Sep 27, 2011 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
HEY.
Pittsburgh is just jealous. We got Cudi and they have Wiz.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 27, 2011 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Ignore it. There are people around here who apparently don’t talk to girls in the real world, so anytime you write something, they look for some “innuendo.”
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Sep 28, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair, the barn really only eluded him for about 20 minutes. The other 40 minutes were comprised of the final drive and our defense bending but not actually breaking. (I really am kinda psyched by that last part.)
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I mentioned in the game thread, I think after the first quarter, that I was hoping to see an effective pass rush. Over all I have to say the pressure was pretty good for most of the game. So, were my expectations just too high, my vision skewed, or did the pass rush really not have much of an effect early in the game?
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I agree with most everything everyone has been saying about Colt. He did have a terrible game despite leading the game winning drive. I still want him to start the whole season because I think he is going to get better, and I would point to the last drive as evidence of that hope.
Also, I would like to see what he could do with real right side to his offensive line and also a real #1 wide receiver.
Finally, Colt played terrible, but I thinks its important to remember his favorite safety valve had strep throat. 2-1 feels good.
seriously. a real #1 would be cool.
"You are the worst villains in football, your evil plan never ceases."-Mooncamping
by discoinferno083 on Sep 27, 2011 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
i think that’s high on the list. can’t fix all the problems in one try.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 27, 2011 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Sheard, Taylor, Ward, Haden. This young core of our defense is going to be the next future of the AFC North. And it will only get better in subsequent drafts. The offense doesn’t quite have that upside yet but boy the defense does.
Sheard was a huge reason we won. I can’t say how important his pass rush was down the stretch.
Pass rush will be a huge factor in the Titans game. We are going up against the most experienced and successful quarterback so far this year in Hasselbeck. This guy will tear you apart if you give him time.
Brownsyup
I hope Holmgren is telling Shurmur what Hasselbeck likes/doesn’t like to do as we speak.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Good point. I hadn’t thought about their past yet.
by chitown browns fan on Sep 28, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Joshua Cribbs was credited with the tackle on Colt McCoy’s first interception of the game.
he should have been credited with an ass kicking, b/c he slaughtered the interceptor. it was an awesome hit.
I was wondering if anyone else saw that
by pittsburghbrownie on Sep 27, 2011 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s a lot of griping on this post for fans of a team that’s 2-1. Let’s all just relax and enjoy being above .500 while we can. This team was never supposed to win the Super Bowl, but they’re showing some real signs of improvement this season and they’re headed in the right direction.
Lets not forget that Colt is only 10 games in. Peyton Manning threw 28 ints, had a 56.7% completion percentage, and only led his team to three victories in his first year. Obviously the kid is not Peyton Manning, but you see my point.
Come on Marecic, get in front of the damn ball! Don't give me this "olé" bullsht!
i think you’re reading too much pessimism into the commentary here.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 27, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree. I’m very excited about where this team is going. I’m very realistic about where they are right now.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2011 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions
The realism stems from the fact that we have faced teams that are a combined 1-8 and our offense has not looked very good. 2-1 is nice, but we can’t act like we don’t have a lot to improve on still.
Agreed. I feel like we’ll definitely lose 1 more game, and Shurmur better figure that shit out before the Super Bowl.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
by Dawg Nuts on Sep 28, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
Obviously we have a lot to improve on. We didn’t look like the Packers out there, but we won and at the end of the day that’s what matters most. We cleanly beat an Indy team who almost pulled off the upset against the Steelers. They’re not as bad as everyone thinks.
Come on Marecic, get in front of the damn ball! Don't give me this "olé" bullsht!
Woah Woah guys. I already posted here but I can’t believe what I am reading. Colt played “terrible”? His passes were horribly inaccurate? Step back from the ledge! I know we have a defeatest mentality sometimes here in cleveland but I do think we should try to take a few positives out of this. I mean yeah he didn’t have his best game, yeah. But he did have a not-so-terrible 50% completion rate on the day, and he threw two TD passes to just the one interception.
Moreover, while I think the INT was partially due to an inaccurate ball but it did come on a play where colt made a nice play to escape the pocket and kept his eyes downfield and found an open receiver. If the ball doesn’t bounce off of massaquoi’s hand and become an INT, we all praise colt for escaping the pocket and keeping his eyes downfield while scrambling.
Now i’m not trying to be a huge mccoy fanboy or apologist, but I mean between colt being a young guy making only his 10th nfl start and the fact that we have a young and mostly inexperienced corps of receivers who didn’t get to have the the benefits of a full training camp in this brand new offense, I can see how the qb and receivers could look like they did on sunday: not exactly on the same page.
At the same time, maybe we should remember that colt didn’t let his less than stellar performance for most of the game effect his confidence or ability to make the plays when they mattered most. He came through when the game was on the line and found a way to win. It wasn’t a perfect performance but he found a way to win when neither he nor the offense had their best game, and that alone is a quality we should be praising.
"Smokescreen."
You got that all right except the ball didn’t bounce off of anyone, he just threw it to a spot he thought MoMass was going to stop at, and MoMass kept moving towards the sideline. It was a broken play, miscommunication sort of thing that they will probably work out in the future. It will only take a devout Christian and a Muslim being mentally attuned to another. The Cleveland Browns, winning football games and creating world peace. Is there anything this team can’t do?
But he did have a not-so-terrible 50% completion rate on the day
You lost me here. Anything under 60 for an NFL QB, especially in a WCO, is unacceptable. And Colt wasn’t even close to 50% for most of the game, and even after that last drive he didn’t make it, finishing 19/39.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2011 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions
He definitely has to do better than that, but a large part of it was reads, not inaccuracy. So far, the Dolphins played us differently defensively than any of the previous teams. For one, there was no Hillis. Also, this was the first 3-4 team we faced.
So there were simple things like a 3rd down play where we were running the Y stick concept: Y trips right, with Cribbs to the left as the only WR. On the right, the outside WR clears deep, taking a CB. Slot runs a mini-out taking a CB. Watson runs his route, but gets squeezed by two defenders.
This means the CB playing Cribbs is expecting inside help but it isn’t there (because he’s covering Watson). It would have been an easy throw on a slant to Cribbs for a first down and Cribbs in a whole lot of open space.
Instead, Colt tried to rifle it in to Watson and it was on target but defensed.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
At this point I am not sure. It’s easy for me to sit here in my living room and say “what the hell was he seeing, why didn’t he go to XYZ?” But it’s a different story for him to do it on the field.
Still, I can’t understand why/how he is reading some of these plays the way he is.
And I don’t know how Shurmur wants the offense to happen, but I really want to see Colt use more of the hard count. We see QBs across the league use it to get the defense to show their blitzers or drop the safety into the box at the last second. Get a clearer picture of what will happen, and make a better read. This can’t be beyond Colt’s skillset.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Is it maybe 3/5 of the OL that is holding them back from using the hard count? We’re looking at two guys with not much NFL experience and the two guys rotating at RT with very little experience with the is offensive unit. Just another theory, but this one perhaps better founded than my last.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I think if you’ve made it to the NFL without knowing how to do a hard count as a lineman you are not going to be in the NFL long. This is a skill most high school kids have mastered.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2011 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
If the ball doesn’t bounce off of massaquoi’s hand and become an INT
The ball didn’t touch him.
that alone is a quality we should be praising.
It is definitely alone in the praise department this week.
I get that people are happy because we won, but this year isn’t about winning and losing, it’s about making progress. Colt didn’t make progress on Sunday, he took a step back.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2011 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions
But he did have a not-so-terrible 50% completion rate on the day, and he threw two TD passes to just the one interception.
Granted, the entire game counts. But the complaints were for everything up until that point, and before the final drive, his completion percentage was 34.6%, basically 1 out of every 3 passes. That included the wide open miss to Cribbs, the big-play missed to Watson, and some other throws that were way off. He was playing terrible during that time.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 28, 2011 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Sorry but I think this post is in la la land. You have to look at the opponents and the way the team is playing before you jump on or start pulling the bandwagon. The teams the Browns have played to this point are terrible! If this Browns team is in the realm of “average” we should be stomping these guys and there should be no question of outcome by the 2nd quarter. Right now the Browns can claim best of the worst honors for beating two 0-3 teams and losing to a 1-2 team. And they have won when they have by depending on the defense.
My feelings about Colt are well documented. I think he is a great person, gutsy and bright. But I think he has very little chance of being the quarterback that can lead the Browns to the promised land. Nothing I’ve seen this year or last has lead me to believe I should change my mind. Having seen a few more than a few quarterbacks pass through town, I feel I’m seeing the exact thing I saw from those others—a few promising plays here and there but mainly a lot of inconsistency. I could go back and pull the exact same excuses from people defending those previous QBs (Frye, Holcolm, Anderson, etc.) and they would read exactly the same. Heckert has done a great job improving the quality of players on the D line, D backfield, and other key spots but I can’t believe that he or the rest of the front office think that Colt is THE guy. Best option for this year… yes, after that, I don’t think so.
Brownsyup
You have to look at the opponents and the way the team is playing before you jump on or start pulling the bandwagon.
While I agree, it has been a loooong time since the Browns were beating the teams we should beat. Baby steps.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
definitely. a win is a win. we’ve only had 14 of them the last 3 years, let’s savor all of them.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2011 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I was right with you all the way through the first paragraph. As to Colt’s future, I want a bit more time for the dust from the new scheme, new coach, and [enter your modifier(s) here] WRs before I’m ready to say that he is or isn’t the right guy for the job. I do expect to see some improvement by the time we come back from the bye.
As long as he can play at an (NFL) average level I’m happy with keeping him and building up the rest of the team. Hell, Dilfer is living proof that you can win a SB with a less than optimal QB.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
Absolutely. Nobody (besides DawgNuts) is saying we’re going to win the Super Bowl. But for a team with very little talent at WR, no depth on the defensive side of the ball, a new system in place on both offense and defense, a rookie head coach, and an injury plagued OL which was supposed to be our strongest position coming into the season… I’m pretty damn happy with how we’ve played.
Come on Marecic, get in front of the damn ball! Don't give me this "olé" bullsht!
I forgot to add in one big observation.
On the final drive that the Dolphins had (after we were up 17-16), Pat Shurmur raced onto the field to call our final timeout. Did he do so because our defense…had not yet set up at the bottom of the screen? This would include the two defensive backs who were playing down there. If anyone still has the game or recalls this, let me know your thoughts. It seemed reminiscent of Week 1, but with Shurmur placing extra emphasis on paying attention and doing something about it.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
I watched his press conference, he said we the defense was ready, but that he was surprised by the package the Dolphins lined up in. He said he learned his lesson and if there was any doubt as to whether we were appropriately ready to line up against their formation, he was going to use the time out to be safe.
That’s a tough way to learn that lesson but at least he won’t make that mistake again.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 28, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Something that I think has slipped a bit through the cracks.
The Dolphins started their final drive on our 47. The Dolphins needed 4 yards in order to attempt a 60 yard FG (Carpenter’s career long is 60). Browns gave them nothing.
While I am stoked about Colt leading the offense on a game winning drive, I forgot how clutch our defense was. How many times have we seen the Browns blow a game like that?
Seriously, I’m trying my best not to go ga-ga over a week 3 win, but this team is quickly becoming my favorite team in a long, long time.
I’m not afraid to admit I had that Brown feeling of dread when I saw PD swing to kick the ball from our own 2 yard line. I didn’t even realize there was penalty called. But if it was a 15 yard penalty and the kick offs have been moved forward 10 yards, why did it look like we were so far back?
Mangini apologist by default.
It was two 15-yard penalties. The excessive celebration penalty was logged and waiting to be applied and then we got the horse collar tackle penalty thrown in on top for a total of 30 yards.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
Yeah I know, but I was wondering about the kick off spot. I only barely saw it, but it seemed like we were back pretty far.
Mangini apologist by default.
We kicked it from our 20 yard line. Yep, we were back pretty far.
Go, I say go away boy, you bother me.
by burntorangeandbrown on Sep 28, 2011 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Nonetheless, Miami was in great position to win the game, but our defense delivered. How did Miami not gain any yards?
I let nothing slip through the cracks!
It was a great job by the defense. Last year, we had to rely on John Kasay missing a field goal for Carolina as time expired because the defense gave up a HUGE play. The Dolphins certainly could have managed things better (get the ball to the running backs), but kudos to our defense. The 60-yarder wouldn’t have been a chip shot though. He’s a career 50% from beyond 50 yards.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 28, 2011 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
honestly, i expected them to run a draw on 3rd and 10 just to try to get the yardage to attempt a 55+ yarder.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2011 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions

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